604 | Stop Making Bad Decisions – Chat with Brett Burton
Is fear quietly influencing your investment decisions?
With today's market creating uncertainty, it's easy to second-guess yourself. Headlines, market sentiment and endless opinions can make even experienced investors hesitate.
In this episode, Ben is joined by high-performance coach Brett Burton and KD, Couch Crew, to unpack the psychology behind successful investing—and why your biggest challenge isn't always the market... it's often your mindset.
You'll discover:
- Why uncertainty causes even experienced investors to hesitate
- The mindset loop that drives every financial decision
- How to separate facts from fear during changing markets
- Why patience often outperforms perfect timing in property and personal finance
- Practical strategies to build confidence and make better long-term investment decisions
If today's headlines have you questioning your next move, this episode will help you zoom out, think clearly and answer, “Is the market driving your decision... or is fear?”
FREE STUFF MENTIONED
- 💡 Inspired by Brett's insights?
Leadwell People delivers engaging leadership, wellbeing and high-performance programs designed to help individuals and teams thrive.
👉 Learn more and explore Brett’s programs today. - 💻 Never Miss a LIVE Webinar
Be the first to hear about our upcoming webinars and live Q&As, packed with practical property and money insights.
👉 Get Webinar Updates - 🧠 Book Recommendations:
- Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
- The First Rule of Mastery: Stop Worrying about What People Think of You by Michael Gervais
- Atomic Habits by James Clear
- ️🎧 Episodes Mentioned:
LISTEN TO THE FIRST 20 EPISODES HERE >>
MOORR MONEY MANAGEMENT APP:
👉 Apple: https://apple.co/3ioICGW
👉 Google Play: https://bit.ly/3OT86bW
👉 Web platform: https://www.moorr.com.au/
FREE MASTERCLASS:
- How to Build a Property Portfolio and Retire on $2,000 a week >>
FREE BEST-SELLING BOOKS:
- The Armchair Guide to Property Investing
- Make Money Simple Again
FIND US HERE:
- Website
- Instagram
- Facebook
- Youtube
1 SPEAKER_03: Is how I'm thinking now helping me?
You know, is what I'm thinking about, is that fact or is it
fiction?
SPEAKER_02: The reason stems back to this exact concept that
we're talking about today, it was fear.
SPEAKER_00: This is what the great investors do.
You're tuning in to the Property Couch, Australia's number one
property, finance, and money podcast.
Featuring the titans of the industry since 2015.
We're trusted by tens of thousands of investors on their
journey to financial peace.
This show is powered by more.
SPEAKER_04: Thanks to the Indians.
Welcome back.
Another big episode today.
Today we're focusing in on the mindset.
There's been a lot of changes in the property market, so we're
going to be focusing on the psychology of wealth, mindset,
property, and performance.
And do I have a great couch crew with me here today?
I have former AFL star Brett Burton, who is all things in
terms of high performance.
He leads a business called Lead Well People, which is a high
performance coaching business, and he does keynote speaking in
that area.
He also has obviously a fabulous neuroscience and performance
psychology background with leading people in
high-performing teams.
And KD, thank you for coming back on.
SPEAKER_02: Pleasure.
Pleasure to sit here with Storkman again.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Storkman, Mrs.
Birdman, very good.
And we're obviously going to explore our emotional
challenges.
So obviously, we've got our own personal journeys around the
property investment journey that we've been on.
And so we know what it was like when we first started out.
And then we also know what it's like when we're guiding other
people on these journeys because right now there's lots of
uncertainty.
There's lots of questions that we're seeing, obviously, through
our business, and just generally people are sort of, you know,
reaching out to me and sort of saying, what should we do and
what's going to happen in the property market?
And recently we've done, you know, a webinar on this, and
I'll continue to try and educate people to try to try and bring
some sanity around basically all of the thought processes and
just go back to that.
And so if we've done our job properly today, we're going to
be talking through what we call the mindset loop.
So Brett will lead us off in that area there.
We are going to talk about the sort of failures and stress and
resilience that is needed around wealth creation and in some
cases a bit of patience as well in terms of watching things play
out.
And then some of those practical habits for a better financial
mindset.
So whether that's just money in general or whether we're talking
more broadly around the whole property and wealth creation
story that we're going on.
So hopefully, if we do our job properly, crew, we're going to
have a bit of fun with it and uh and get into that.
So I want to start, Brett, firstly, by talking about what
is the mindset loop and how does it you know fester in our
behaviours and how we how we play.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I guess that the first principle we want
to understand is is how the mind works.
And so, you know, we we spoke uh last time uh on this podcast
that we have about 70 to 80,000 thoughts today.
Uh so 70 to 80,000, lots of thoughts, mostly happening uh
you know subconsciously in the background.
But those thoughts trigger our feelings, you know, and our
emotions.
And so, and we know how we feel, then impacts how we behave.
So thinking impacts how we feel, feelings impact how we behave.
And so we want to be able to be mindful of how we're thinking
because of those 70-80,000 thoughts, uh the researchers say
about 80% of them are negative.
So we're negatively biased as humans, we're always kind of you
know scanning, worrying.
Uh, and then about those 80%, another 80% are repetitive.
So we're continually telling ourselves the same story.
SPEAKER_02: Is this our caveman and woman brain going back to
keeping us safe?
SPEAKER_03: It is, absolutely, that's where it comes from.
It's the uh it's a survival kind of mechanism.
And so that helped back then, but in these days we want to be
able to be mindful of where our thinking's going and how that's
kind of affecting our behaviour.
So um that's that's the the thought loop, and so we want to
become mindful, and it's very hard in today's world because
we're so distracted, we've got the mobile phones, we're busy,
busy, busy.
So our opportunity to be able to kind of stop, reflect, become
self-aware, and and you know, and ask yourself those
questions.
Is how I'm thinking now helping me?
You know, is what I'm thinking about, is that fact or is it
fiction?
All right, and so that's what we want to be kind of leaning into.
SPEAKER_04: So, Katie, when you've obviously, you know, um
the current property cycle, uh, we've been through a few of them
ourselves.
Do you remember what it was like when you were sort of going
through the first known, unknown period of your investment
journey?
And and how did you work out how to get yourself through that?
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
I I remember that feeling really, really well.
I obviously different times, so different, different purchase
prices and all of that.
But I remember I bought my first property for about a third of
what I was pre-approved for.
And the reason stems back to this exact concept that we're
talking about today, it was fear.
And the one thing that I've found through all my years of
coaching is that my primary way to handle the fear and those
voices in my head is to try and be a massive control freak.
I try and control everything around me so that I have less of
that fear.
So my way of controlling it with that first purchase was to be
much smaller than I could have perhaps been.
And uh it it didn't stop the nerves, even though it was a
significantly smaller purchase than I could have gone to.
I was terrified the entire way through.
Definitely.
SPEAKER_04: And you think that that that um terror came from
the fact that you your upbringing, you told us that
story is that.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a I have a bit of money psychology?
Definitely.
I mean, I have a we all have our own different stories.
Mine comes from a basis of watching my parents be very
entrepreneurial and invest in property, but then also losing
it all when I was a teenager.
So I definitely have a lot of inbuilt sort of trauma in
regards to that.
And I didn't want to make the same mistakes that they they
did, absolutely.
Um, thankfully, I also learnt a lot from what they showed me
over the years as well.
So I had a lot of really good instruction as well, but none of
us want to repeat mistakes that are that are unget-outable of
and that's the best way to phrase that.
But it is, it's an innovation.
Property is such a big deal, you know.
I go and I buy a pair of jeans at the shop, my butt looks fat,
I throw the jeans out or I give them away.
I buy a property that makes my whole situation, you know, feel
uncomfortable, and I'm stuck wearing that pair of jeans for
quite a while.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, no one wants to be trapped.
SPEAKER_02: No.
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it it is interesting.
I remember, you know, my first journey into investing was
through shares because I didn't have enough money to buy a
property.
Um, but I I learned a lot about my investment psychology in the
sense that um, you know, I'd see a BHP report and I'd be
thinking, that's a that's the business is growing well, the
INOR numbers, the volume numbers are good, and the share price
would drop 5%.
And I'd be going, I don't understand that.
And what would happen to your adrenaline then?
I don't I can't quite reconcile why that's happening.
And then I worked out, it took me you know two or three years.
I probably would have started, you know, dad was buying shares
for me when I from about 16 years of 16 years old, and then
I started buying them obviously at 18, had my own trading
account and so forth.
And I did work experience on a you know stockbroking company
back in the day as well.
SPEAKER_02: So I knew a sliding doors moment.
This could have been the share scalp.
SPEAKER_04: No, I definitely never gonna be the share scap
because I I couldn't control it.
So I found a lot of comfort in residential property because it
was a tangible thing, and there wasn't too many different things
that actually impacted the market.
It was an essential need, shelter.
So it took me, you know, it still took me 10-15 years to
really develop out my true understanding of the the nuances
and the market dynamics around, yes, you know, it is a need, but
it's also has a want element to it, and that is people striving
for showing off themselves through the properties that they
own and the location, and so all of those things are nuanced
together in terms of how property prices perform.
But but that is the backstory for me too.
I was one of these people that you know I worked out that I I
couldn't I couldn't feel comfortable in having a share
portfolio that I was just a number and I couldn't influence
it.
SPEAKER_02: Whereas you can influence the direction of BHP,
but you can't.
Correct, you can't.
SPEAKER_04: But I could buy a freestanding house and and sort
of add value to it or do whatever I need to do, and all
but also understand that historically um in growing
economies and growing towns and cities, that land value
appreciates over time.
And so that gave me a bit of comfort.
SPEAKER_03: Do you have you have shares now?
Oh yeah, yeah, got a lot to do.
And so and so that's that's interesting.
So so why?
Why though?
Why do you not fear it now versus you feared it back then?
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think I think like like everything, I'm
in my super fund, um, I've got a lot of property.
So I'm I'm definitely overexposed on the property
side.
Yep.
But diversification and those types of things do matter.
And of course, you know, in in running businesses and
understanding a lot more about how businesses work and uh
markets work and those type of things, I've been able to
transfer that skill into those areas.
And and so now, you know, I look at big uh thematic themes that
run through markets, not only property, but also obviously,
you know, in the moment, not and this is not financial advice,
but I'm putting a lot of money in America, yes, right?
Like because America has the right footings for economic
growth, and you know, the you know, they really do have
exceptionalism when it comes to building value and economies and
those types of things.
So in Australia, we're we're probably a little bit more
conservative, a bit more reserved, and so I'll I'll still
own my properties here in Australia.
I won't be doing overseas property, but I'm definitely
sort of getting more overweight in the American markets than
what I am in the Australian markets, because at the end of
the day, AI is going to be a significant force for good,
hopefully.
There's a bit of bad in there as well, but but at the end of the
day, that's where the economic opportunity is, and so that's
where value will be created.
So that's why I've got a weighting in that.
Again, not financial advice people.
I'm not telling you to go and invest in the American markets.
That's I'm just telling you that that's but but coming back to
what you're saying, yeah, uh Brett, in terms of um, I've
learnt skills that I've now been able to adopt into other areas,
but um, you know, what we're talking about here is mindset.
And so I had a limiting belief in terms of um my uh
competencies and abilities in a certain skill to or to take
action, and I've been able to learn, develop, and overcome
that and feel more confident in that in that execution.
Now, I understand also from when you're a young person and you
only have$10,000, that when you are putting$8,000 of that into a
property market or into a share trade.
SPEAKER_02: Anytime you put all your eggs in one basket, it has
a it has a simplifies it for some people.
SPEAKER_04: Like other people just know that some people
don't, it doesn't affect them like it does you and I, right?
But that's now obviously my wealth base is at a stage where
I can, you know, risk 20%, and the 80% is still enough to
comfortably cover.
SPEAKER_02: That's why it's so tough for first-time property
investors.
You have one investment property where things are going wrong
with the tenant, or you know, there's structural repairs
required, and your entire investment portfolio is in the
toilet and you feel it.
Yes.
Whereas once you have a portfolio with a couple of
properties, you can spread that risk across, and it's not all
panic stations if there's something going awry with one
part of it.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think it also leads to you know what's
your your personal experience.
You've got family, you know, and and you've got a mortgage in
your own home, and then you go, well, we've got to get the kids
through school and that kind of stuff, and so that risk appetite
is less, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04: Well it is.
I mean, I think you know, at the end of the day, if you've got a
low risk tolerance, you're gonna potentially procrastinate and
wait too long.
Um, and we all know that you know, um, in property
especially, timing versus time in the market, if you stay there
longer, as long as again your assets in uh an economic
environment that's growing.
So if you're in a big city, you're pretty confident that
that economic flywheel will continue to keep growing.
And off the back of that, if the population's growing, um then
you're going to see prosperity.
Um, you know, but we also know in Japan as another example of a
property market that's actually going backwards.
SPEAKER_02: Well declining birth rates, correct, and no
immigration.
SPEAKER_04: So you we're talking about locations where in Japan
you can buy very cheap houses, but in Tokyo, which is their
economic flywheel and their big agglomeration economy, you know,
land values are still at an absolute premium because that's
where all the economic activity happens.
So again, that's another great lesson in terms of understanding
that.
But so Brett, when we're talking about obviously the mindset
loop, we go from thoughts to feelings to actions.
What do we build off the top of that in terms of next steps that
we need to be thinking about in terms of taking those leaps and
working on our brain to get it to you know, work the muscle
that is our most important muscle in our in our body?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well I think you know it's it's becoming
mindful, you know.
We've often heard the term mindfulness in that and that's
our ability to be able to track our thinking, and you know, and
I'd mentioned metacognition before, which is our ability to
think about our thinking.
So we don't just, you know, we're not just in this autopilot
and just going, oh yeah, I'm fearful of that, I'm fearful of
that, that happened last time, to be able to stop and reflect.
SPEAKER_02: Let me let me ask you, when you're talking about
thinking about your thinking, are you talking about like
getting into a meditative state or actually just spending time
pondering like why am I thinking that way as opposed to just
reacting?
SPEAKER_03: Spot on, okay, it's it's it's taking the time to
have you know to reflect and pause because we are so busy.
Think about your day.
You wake up, as soon as you wake up, we're straight into thinking
mode.
Okay, I've got to get ready for work, I'm gonna get the kids
ready, bang, whatever.
Yeah, you know, get get ready for work, drop the kids to
school, whatever we're doing, go to work, we're we're we're kind
of communicating, we're yeah, we're stimulated constantly
through our day, get home, eat, you know, get things packed up,
get ready for the next day.
It's very, very rare that we actually stop and just be.
All right, we're human beings.
We mentioned that last time, rather than human doings.
And so taking the opportunity to sit back and reflect and go, I
was just thinking about that.
Hang on a minute, why was I thinking like that?
And where does that come from?
And is that right or is that wrong?
And what data do I need?
Because you know, what you've kind of just alluded to is that
the the share market versus the you know the the property market
is that now that you're educated, now that you've gone
and got the information, and for the the the listeners out there
and the people that are wanting to invest, I'm imagining your
advice is you know, go and source the right information, go
and you know, learn for yourself, go and listen to
podcasts, go and read books, go and get professional services so
that you're actually using data that is fact rather than just
fiction.
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, make no mistake, I read everything I
could get my hands on pre-internet, and then the
research that I was doing was very laborious.
Like I got folders of um you know old local newspapers where
I'd rip out the real estate section and I'd track property
pro like manual.
I've even got some of them in an old filing cabinet out the back
there, full of dust and everything like that.
But this this property sold at this time, then the internet
came along, and then then I could actually then store it,
and then all of a sudden, but but it's to your point.
And and and I I had obviously uh physical professional advisors
that I sought.
I mean, very lucky to have again um, you know, sort of stock
brokers across the road from my house.
So they you know that was always nice to have Kevin across the
road.
Um but in but in terms of you know, I would be meeting and
organizing um events and having proper conversations with
professional advisors, my accountants, um, you know, all
of the sort of people that I could get in front of, I would
happily pay to get educated in some of the courses that I'd
also do, I'd happily pay if I'm getting the best uh and
brightest giving me the advice that I was getting.
SPEAKER_02: So see, I think my story is slightly different in
that I educated myself as much as I could, but only really
about property.
For the longest time I was the least diversified person you
could ever meet.
Everything in SuperIn property, everything out of super in
property.
And it's only been in probably the last 10 years that I've
really done the research on the shares side of things and gone,
oh, do you know what?
It's probably not as scary as I thought it was going to be.
I probably can have a level of control that's makes it feel
safe enough for me without having to have full control.
SPEAKER_04: I want to talk about system one, system two thinking.
Obviously, that was you know famous by Daniel Conneman and um
I'm trying to think of the other guy's name, but thinking fast,
thinking slow.
Um so we obviously have, you know, to your point, the those
uh 80,000 thoughts that we're having.
When you are talking about the slow thinking and the internal
thinking, and so how did I come up with you know that thought
process, I use that same principle when I think about
what are the behaviours that are going to happen off the back of
say tax reform and how that's gonna potentially play out.
Now, it's not easy to predict because there's behavioral
economics in terms of and there's lots of different sort
of um uh you know biases that we hold, sunk cost bias, um, you
know, sort of uh, you know, different types of areas in the
and and you're trying to work out which one's gonna be the
most dominant of most people because when you're investing in
property, you're trying to predict the behavior of a group
of people because you can't just predict it on one person and one
house.
You need a a movement of people and a desire to sort of go into
that market to to drive value higher.
Um when you're when you're doing your professional speaking and
and sort of coaching in that area, when a like let's put it
back into a pre professional athlete sort of sense, when when
people are having negative thoughts um uh as opposed to
abundant thoughts, what's going through their minds and what are
some of the sort of techniques that we can use to help um you
know get them out of that rut or get them out of that sort of
thinking pattern?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well it's for a start, it's understanding that
our our thoughts will trigger an emotional response, uh feeling.
And and we can't we can't choose how we feel.
Literally, uh you know, that the thought happens and bang, we'll
get a feeling.
But we can choose how we respond.
How we respond to how we feel.
All right, so we can we can't choose the emotion and how we
feel, but we can choose how we respond to it.
So if if the the player you know is in front of the goals, is you
know, after the siren, 100,000 people, he can't choose the fact
that he's gonna get anxious and that the heart rate's gonna go
up and he's gonna feel a bit queasy and a bit shaky.
But he can choose his response to that, and the response to it
is in training to be able to go to the breath, to be able to
posit your refrain, look at the opportunity, to be able to talk
to himself and go to your routine.
You've done this a thousand times before.
And so that's the opportunity is to go to that response.
And so when we we're fearful of something, and we've had any one
of the kind of experiences that we've spoken about today, it's
about pausing, going, don't let the feelings dictate your
behaviour.
How why am I feeling like this?
I'm feeling like this because I care, because I am worried, you
know, that you know I don't want to lose my investment, I don't
want to make this decision that someone has made before me.
But what do I need to do?
Get the data, get the advice, what is it?
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe it is let the feelings dictate your
behaviour, but dictate it in a pattern that you've pre-worked
out beforehand.
When I feel like this, instead of instantly reacting like that,
I have a plan.
So exactly what you just said there, you know, I work on the
breathing and then I do this, so that there's a structure for it.
It's a control freak in me coming up.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's quite okay to it's right, it's
because again, it goes to that metacognition.
If if we're practice thinking about it, thinking, then you
know that.
You know, responding.
I'm not just letting this pattern happen.
SPEAKER_02: You're following a blueprint.
SPEAKER_03: Exactly right.
Following a blueprint.
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think I mean Scott Pandalbury, um, obviously
broke the game's record um a few weeks back.
He um, you know, he talks about process and he also talks about
I've done the work.
So when you're sort of talking about the practice, yeah, so
he's framing in his mind is very much around I've I've practiced
this and I've practiced this and I've practiced this.
So I'll just go into that mindset of process and I'll go
through my process.
No different than a golfer standing over a putt to win, you
know, the the US Open or the British Open or whatever.
They have a set routine, they'll set their line, they'll make
sure their feet are in the right area, the pendulum of the of the
part will do that.
And you know, in terms of the work that Bryce and I have done,
uh, and and what we intend to do and and in the business work
that we do, everything's process driven.
Like our research is process driven.
SPEAKER_01: And nothing's an accident.
Nothing's an accident.
SPEAKER_04: Our algorithms that score our demand, supply scores,
all of the stuff that we're looking for is process driven,
right?
In terms of all of the all of the um the way in which we
select lending or whatever it might look like is process
driven, and and we have frameworks in terms of what we
what we do around you know those selection criteria and how we
look at clients.
And then that's no different in investing space because even the
ASIC regulators tell you that if you're going to give financial
advice, there's a process.
And the process is you need to understand your customer, you
need to understand their objectives, you need to
understand their risk profile, and then after those two things,
can you then discuss financial products or what solutions you
might be providing?
But it's off the back of gaining that knowledge, but still
following a framework or a process as part of that.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and we, you know, you referenced
Collingwood, and I know you're a Collingwood man, but if you
think about you know uh a couple of years ago when Collingwood
always winning those close games, you know, and everyone
says, how do they keep on doing it?
It just comes back to the system.
They'd trained it, they and you speak to you know Craig McRae
and it'd come up in in media conferences that that they'd
practice when the game plays, you know, at training.
And so everyone knew what the system was, and so it wasn't by
chance, yeah.
You know, yeah, you need a little bit of luck here and
there, but they were going back to a system.
And so when we think about fear, and and fear just comes from the
unknown, we've all heard that before.
It's the fear of the unknown.
And so what the body does and what the Mind does is when it
fears something that it doesn't know, it goes into that
reaction.
And so if we can actually practice and and go to your
blueprint or you know do something over and over and over
again, then we suddenly don't fear it.
Think about a you know a child when you know when when they
first go to to swim or jump in the water, you know, they're
fearful, they're anxious because they haven't done it before.
We do it over and over and over again, suddenly the mind goes,
Oh, it's okay, it's okay, and it becomes automated, we don't have
that fear.
SPEAKER_02: That's why we do it with them young, isn't it, as
well?
So that we can take that away.
It's interesting, I'm I'm not going to admit to know a thing
about football.
But I was at the Olympic Games a couple of years ago and in
Paris, and I was watching one of our high jumpers who did
amazingly well.
I believe her name's Nicola, and at the end of every single jump,
she'd sit down and she would write in her journal, and I was
watching her write in her journal afterwards.
That must be part of her process, her way to calm those
nerves, competing on the biggest stage in the entire world.
There's so much we can learn from the way that peak athletes,
you know, take this into their lives as well.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and Katie, what she's doing there is she's
distracting the mind because the mind can't think of two things
at once.
It's literally, we can only literally have you know one
thought.
You know, we talk about you know multitasking, we we don't
multitask, we we just task switch.
And so with the mind can only think about one thing, then by
doing that journaling or whatever her system is, she's
you know dispelling herself of worrying about the next
opportunity.
SPEAKER_02: So if I'm someone that verbally processes a lot,
which I I do, and I think typically speaking, women are
really good at verbally processing.
Does that mean my little you know hamster wheel inside my
brain is shut off when I'm verbally talking about it as
well?
Is that shutting down some of it?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, to a degree to a degree because you are you
know in that action, you're actually speaking, but you know,
also think that um you know females have this ability to be
able to think about a lot of things and talk about a lot of
things in a good way, in a good way, positive or positive.
SPEAKER_04: So when we talk about failure, stress and
resilience in wealth creation, yeah, we know that obviously,
you know, in any sort of market conditions, people's responses
are varied, um, but there is a lot of um you know, sort of
follow forward, which is not in not in a positive way, but if a
market's correcting significantly, everyone moves
into a panic mode, right?
So we see this happening time and time again in share markets
because it's a more liquid than illiquid asset, and so that
again was one of the attractions for property for me.
It's like it doesn't have runs like a share market does, like
we don't drive home every night and see that our property has
just gone down by 14%, and it doesn't affect our behaviours as
much.
Um, so it's not so much that the markets are reacting unusually,
it's the people under pressure responding in different ways
because of that uncertainty.
So, of course, what we're trying to um articulate on today's show
is to just try and get everyone to say, well, if you are
uncertain, if there is things that you don't know about, then
try to gravitate to the facts, yeah, right, and try to
understand.
But but I can tell you that that that uh Ben that sounds easy
because what happens is there are two sets of facts.
There's the immediate facts, which is short term, and there's
the long-term facts, right?
So this is why you know famously quoted that the share market is
a weighing machine and a voting machine, and it's the voting
machine which is the short term, and it's a weighing machine,
which is the long term.
And so the context is like this because if everyone else is
panicking, well then I should panic too, right?
And so so so I'm I am looking at the data and everyone's selling,
and so property prices are going down.
So I need to get in and sell at the same time, right?
Because that is Ben, you tell me to look at the data.
I'm telling you the data is that the price uh, you know, listings
are going up, demand for for is going down, well, that's an
economic cycle, and you're at a start of that cycle or a
downward part of that cycle.
Now, in some cases it might be fundamental, like in a business
like let's say um Blockbuster as a good classic example.
If you're a video hire business and digital's coming, then it's
it might have a couple of ups, but ultimately it's gonna finish
uh you know out of business.
Now, the the difference with residential property and land
and so forth is the land you still own, right, in terms of
that.
Now, but if a town does fall over or or grow at a slower
rate, then the reality is the economic engine is going to
impact on land values there.
So then you sort of how you need to look at the data is to say,
well, what's happening in the long term?
What's happening in that market over the long term?
Is the population growing over the long term?
Is there is the economic engine uh too concentrated?
Because if it is too concentrated in one or two
industries, it's very susceptible to higher impact.
If it's a diversified economy or a classic agglomeration economy,
then the reality is that come back to the longer term facts.
So, and this is what the great investors do.
The great investors go, okay, what's the truth over the long
term?
And so, whilst other people are fearful, that's when I become
greedy.
SPEAKER_02: Just like the big man says.
SPEAKER_04: So, but it's that it's that now, so we know that
you know, behaviourally, there are going to be people who are
overreacting to the short term.
Now, and and we know in in the Melbourne market particularly
that that the patience level of people because Melbourne has
underperformed, and that's because we've got a crap
government and a crap economy.
SPEAKER_02: What do you really think?
SPEAKER_04: So the reality is completely.
And you've got a great Labour leader.
We do.
You absolutely have a very, very good Labour leader, so it's not
just Labour liberal crap.
It's actually there's one job that politicians have to do, and
that's run a strong economy, and that's not through spending
money and creating lots of debt that you have to pay higher
taxes on.
It's actually getting businesses and people starting businesses
and employing people and growing the economic pie.
So that's a perfect example, though, coming back to the point
I was making, is patience is part of that behavioural process
and learning to understand that this is only a moment in time
because the reality is that this crap government will eventually
get kicked out, and then we'll start to see a realignment back
to what a city like Melbourne should be doing, which is
growing its economy, right?
And not through government spending, but through private
investment in terms of that.
And once people realise that and they see the sheer size of the
Melbourne economy, like it's too big to fail because of the the
major number of people here, it's you know obviously an
enormous economy, but it can do a lot better, and the moment it
does do better, sentiment shifts, and then when that
sentiment shifts, you're off to the races.
But in terms of property values, will we call it regression to
the mean, they'll go back to their long-term trajectory.
So Melbourne will most likely over the next decade, if we have
a change of government, be the best performing market in
Australia because it'll just get back to its its its footings,
irrespective of tax reform.
Because tax reform is not a major long-term driver, it's a
short-term perception in terms of how people have.
So that's why we're doing this episode at this time after you
know recently seeing the reforms by government.
That's why it becomes quite interesting.
SPEAKER_03: And just on that, Silvon, so what you're you're
you know is saying is the patience is about emotional
regulation, isn't it?
Yes, is to be able to regulate your emotions during those times
of fear and during those times of okay, everyone else was just
doing this, so I've got to be part of the you're the herd and
join the herd, you know.
Um, so it's about that ability to be able to track your
thinking, understand your your your how you respond to that,
and it's like that great saying, know thyself, you know, know how
you that I'm gonna get anxious, I'm gonna get worried, I'm gonna
get stressed from this period.
But what are the facts?
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I think even in um uh auction environments,
people can, you know, have you bought any properties at auction
before?
Once.
SPEAKER_02: The story's not very good.
I got a little bored and um left my um family gathering, went for
a little walk and bought a property at auction that I had
never seen before.
SPEAKER_01: One bid.
Fundamental.
SPEAKER_03: You've been drinking, you've been drinking
at the talk.
SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, sort of you know, quick thinking and
slow thinking, you know, fast and third.
It was really fast thinking.
SPEAKER_02: It was yeah, it was it was not my finest moment.
No.
SPEAKER_04: A bit of good learning.
Well, it's learning.
Did we did it end up positive or negative?
What happened?
SPEAKER_02: Um it ended up being a really weird one.
So I I put in one bid, um, I was $1,000 above the underbidder.
I then had a really shaky pre-settlement period with the
sellers where I just got a really, really bad feeling about
it.
I went to the underbidder, um, gave them$1,000, and they took
the property over.
So again, not my finest moment, but I exited it with very little
damage.
That said, that property would be a lovely addition to my
portfolio now.
SPEAKER_04: So time fixes some decisions.
Okay, that's fair enough.
Alright, so if we're talking about that, let's move on to
some of the practical habits that we need to.
So when we when we are talking about mindset, can you step us
through some of the habit behaviors that we can think
about and focus on, and then we'll try and bring them into
how that might bleed into financial habits?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I think the first thing is is to stop,
yeah, pause, reflect, because we are so busy and everything's
happening so fast, is to go back and go, okay, just let's take
stock here.
Let's get some perspective.
What do I know about the past?
What do I know about the you know, what I want to do in the
future, where are my goals, does it fit with my my strategy, and
then you know, what do I know about myself?
You know, and making sure that we're making decisions based on
the fact rather than the fiction and based on not reactive
emotions.
SPEAKER_04: Well, and I think you know that's the pressure
that we often see when markets move beyond what we call
fundamental value or fair value and then move into what we call
a market price.
So a market price is what a willing palette a willing seller
and a willing buyer is willing to exchange, right?
But you can, you know, from daffodils to ostriches to all
sorts of um different fads over time where prices daffodils as
well as tulips.
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, tulips, thank you.
What did I say?
SPEAKER_04: Daffodils from thank you for picking that up.
Prices can become irrational through what John Maynard Keynes
would say are animal spirits and irrational exuberance.
And so cryptos and all of these types of things where we see
these types of fads.
So that was a market exchange.
Like even, you know, these digital images or whatever they
call what were they called again?
SPEAKER_01: Non-fungible tokens.
Thank you, non-fungible tokens.
SPEAKER_04: Like people were saying, oh, that that photo is
unique and it's got no scarcity because a half a second later
another photo's taken of pretty much the exact same thing.
So once people work out there was no scarcity, but for a
moment there, everyone thought that these things had a you
know, so that was a that was a rational supposed belief by that
people, or it was a pump and dump strategy from the people
who were trying to create a market, you know, in terms of
that.
And so that's what we've seen with crypto as well.
We've seen, you know, is there a practical purpose, is there a
practical need for that particular thing?
Maybe not, you know, digital currencies, but certainly, you
know, areas of uh that digital economy are definitely coming
through.
So we're seeing a digital US dollar, we're obviously seeing
um the chain, the blockchain that can also have some
practical applications, but it's also about whether that's going
to have practical applications at the scale that it needs to
have.
I mean, the biggest problem with Bitcoin, uh, you know, we're
talking about it being a store of value, but the reason why it
hasn't necessarily been an exchange mechanism is too bloody
slow, right?
So we can't have that process happening in terms of those
types of things.
So these are all the things that you need to understand.
So what are the what are some of the practical things that you've
done, KD, in terms of when you are thinking about habits and
behaviours that you've done, what served you well in terms of
executing that from a monetary, financial, or wealth building
point of view?
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I need to be sitting here and just
writing the note to myself pause because I don't do that often
enough.
I don't, I mean, I'm constantly in motion.
I wake up and I'm the person who feels guilty if I'm not
productive enough on a Sunday, and I know that there are a lot
of other people out there listening to that who will
resonate with that.
And so when do I actually sit and go, what am I thinking
about?
How's that impacting?
So I've got homework after this, thank you.
Um what's worked well for me.
I mean, I guess just reading and being a little compulsive nerd,
trying to learn as much as I can.
That's why I've never invested in anything to do with crypto.
I didn't understand it well enough for it to fit within my
risk parameters.
Um, I I like to understand things.
I'm a curious person by nature, and that's probably been what's
protected me the most, whether that's in business,
partnerships, investing.
I'm pretty simple though, really.
There's nothing too complex about me.
SPEAKER_04: Well, Brett, you've talked about self-awareness, you
know, in what we've talked about this morning so far.
Um, we've also talked about emotional regulation, so trying
to, you know, sort of pause and that.
But there's also potentially some reframing that you can also
do when you potentially try something and it doesn't work
for you.
Can you sort of unpack that a little bit more?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well I think it's it's about you know
learning from our failures, you know, and and we all make
mistakes, don't we?
And we can, you know, I love the acronym, you know, fail first
attempt in learning.
Okay, no one sets out to make a mistake today.
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what NASA's motto is?
Failure is an option.
That's actually one of their mottos because without failures
in the process, they're going to fail when they do the rocket
launch.
And so they want as many failures as they possibly can
during it.
I used to have a bracelet that had that from NASA.
It said failure is an option.
And how much do we learn?
You know, you either fail or you either win or you fail.
Sorry, no, you either fail, oh gosh, here we go.
You either win or you learn.
When you fail, you learn.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And it's that intention, isn't it?
It's like no one sets out to have the intention, I want to
lose money or I want to make the wrong decision.
It's so it's about taking the time, reflecting, what did I
learn from that?
Yeah, you know, so that we don't make the same mistakes again.
And understand not being on hard on yourself.
SPEAKER_04: Well, well, I think also when you are putting it
into a financial context, the decision to risk um, you know, a
thousand dollars if you've got a million dollars is is okay,
right?
You can put that at risk.
But for those people who are thinking about investing for the
first time in property, it's a half a million dollar or a
three-quarters of a million dollar or a million dollar
aspect.
Now, for those people who have bought a home, well, you're
buying the same thing, but this time you're just gonna rent it
out.
So a lot of people have a lot more comfort around potentially
doing it if they've already bought something.
But if you're a rent vestor or something like that, or a
first-time you know, home buyer, it it's it's a whole new
experience.
And the risk feels more amplified because of the known
unknown, which is I don't know what's gonna happen off this.
But I can tell you that of all, you know, in the street that I
grew up, in the in the suburb that I grew up, and in the house
that I grew up, they went up in value over the medium to longer
term.
So I think that's why Australians have a preference
towards residential property.
Well, yeah, but it's it's also relatively smart.
I mean, you know, up until these recent tax reforms, I always
used to think, what's a smarter use of my money?
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Like the smarter use of my money was a real clear,
I'll go into Resi every day of the week because I can control
the asset.
Um, I know that the land is scarce if I'm buying in a good
location, and and over time, if if I bought in a location that's
growing economically, I'm gonna get the natural uplift of that.
So it's it's very rare that I'll come out of that with a loss.
Whereas in a share market, depending on the business that
I'm even investing in, even blue chip businesses go backwards
significantly.
You only need to look at GE and even CSL, you know, of recent
times in terms of the the wealth that they've Sonic, ResMed,
Amazon.
There's so many of them, right?
So, so I mean, if you're listening to this or watching
this, um, yeah, it it it is all about context and scale.
Um, you know, and so if you need to learn how to invest slowly,
then property's not potentially your first way to do it.
But what we've always said um on the pod is it's really simple
that if you are in a position financially where you've got
strong incomes and there's a safe amount of surplus there in
terms of those, you've got a reasonable security behind you
as well, um, job security is gonna be important because
you're gonna be uh servicing the debt, then that's a reasonable
time for you to think about taking that opportunity.
But if you're also thinking about when to time the market
and which market to get in, you're probably gonna need to
get some professional advice around what that looks like.
And if the advisor is not incentivized to um charge you a
commission or you know, sell you something off a stock list, then
you've probably got a better chance of getting you know some
impartial advice.
It's never independent, like we're all still you know
receiving money and we still have biases to that point about
what that looks like.
But that's that to me sort of makes sense around um how you
frame up that story and and give yourself the confidence to be
able to do you know that particular thing.
SPEAKER_02: Maybe also remembering as well, it doesn't
have to be this or that, it doesn't have to be property or
shares, it can be this and that.
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, you know over time it will be.
Yeah, I mean, look, the the the the simple context that we try
and promote on this podcast, and it's I think it's why so many
people trust us and trust our message, is because we've never
gone into the hype, we've never gone into the hyper bowl of
buying in different locations and chasing the next big fad or
anything like that.
What what we've relied on is fundamental value investing in
in terms of what that looks like, and that that means at the
end of the day, what is what do we know to be true today that's
going to be true in 10 years' time?
Like when Warren Buffett talks about the Snickers bar, it's the
number one you know selling uh suite in the world when it was
in the 1960s and it's still up there in the top five, you know,
some 50, 60, 80 years later, right?
So so if you think about those types of things, that's when you
can obviously get confidence around what that looks like.
And so we haven't again been drawn to in fact, we've warned
people um against some of the sort of latest fads of trust
lending and all those regional town buying in remote areas, um,
because we just didn't the fundamentals weren't gonna stack
up.
And I think part of that story is around uh having the
knowledge, and so you know, in terms of my behaviour points, I
my number one point is I've got to get educated, you know, which
is what you said before.
If I if I don't know, if I've got a knowledge gap, I need to
fill that knowledge gap.
And sometimes that's me reading, that's me asking questions, but
I would go to a proven source.
SPEAKER_02: And not necessarily Uncle Jim or the person up at
the local pub.
That's the thing, it's it's where we get our information
from.
And when you know, going back in time, information say news
sources could be so much more trusted than they can be now as
well.
So making sure that it is it's reputable.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not the mate at the barbecue, is it, you
know, and because everyone you know is doing this, oh, I've got
to do that, and I then I had fear because the FOMO, I don't
want to miss out, and I want to join my mates.
So it's again, it's it's fact versus fiction.
SPEAKER_04: There is a lot of pressure in that.
But I mean, if I look at the likes of Berkshire Hathaway and
look at Warren and Charlie and the team there, they've got a
framework.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Benjamin Graham laid out, you know, fundamental
investing and those types of things, the intelligent
investor, and the framework they've they've they haven't
really changed that framework over a long period of time.
Is that is there an economic moat?
Does that allow them to get pricing power for that economic
moat?
Um, what's the management team like?
What's their incentives in terms of what that looks like?
And it's this framework that they take every decision that
they make through.
So where have they got most of their investments?
Rail, well, it's not easy to build a new rail line.
But you know, who's going to spend hundreds of billions of
dollars?
So you've got an economic moat there, insurance, obviously.
So they have you know some of the biggest insurance businesses
in the world.
So again, big cash flowing businesses that allow them to
then turn that cash flow into buying into business, Coca-Cola,
so power of brand, pricing position, distribution.
So looking at all of those fundamentals, Apple, originally
Warren Buffett didn't want to get into Apple because he didn't
understand technology, but then once he worked out that they
built an ecosystem and it was a closed ecosystem, and obviously
it's been one of the best investments that they've made
over the journey, and that's why they've got what$300 billion of
cash sitting in their bank account, plus obviously a share
price and performing business, American Express.
Same sort of thing in terms of you know, they've got a
fascinating story about whether they were going to stay in
American Express because there was a story there where American
Express actually ensured a business where the guy was
dodgy, and what he said is that all of these tankers he said had
this oil in these tankers, but no, what had happened was he put
a film of the oil across the top, but everything else was
water.
And so once they discovered that, um this is the 1960s.
The American Express share price started to tank.
And Warren Buffett's going, hmm, this is interesting.
Is this a buying opportunity?
In other words, short-term framing versus long-term
framing?
And so what did he do?
He just said, all right, well, I'm going to go out on the
street and I'm going to observe people.
And were they still using their American Express card for their
transactions?
Spent a week out in the streets.
Everyone's still got their American Express.
So the perception was in the markets.
The markets corrected the price, right?
You know, in terms of the, but the people on the street, they
didn't have a clue.
They didn't care about that little bit.
So he obviously loaded up, and now it's obviously one of the
biggest positions that they that he has.
So again, it comes back to knowledge is power in terms of
understanding that and then following systems as part of
that.
Because, and and long-term thinking, right?
Think about thematical investments, about what gives
them that competitive advantage over the long term rather than
the short term.
And that's why, you know, in in all of the recent education I've
been giving around what's going to happen post these tax
changes, is I'm still very, very comfortable in terms of what's
going to happen in some property markets, but I'm also fearful in
other property markets based off that data.
So that that's you know, there's some of my my sort of lessons
when it comes to behaviours around that.
Have you got any, Brett, in terms of when you when you talk
about even with your kids, I mean you've got a you've got a
high-performing family.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, and I think probably just to add to
that is is don't let your emotions lead your thinking.
Yeah.
You know, don't because as I said before, we we can't control
our emotional response, but we can choose how we respond to our
emotions.
And I think that's just critical because then we, you know, we
can you know we can get agitated at times, you know, with the
kids, or we can get agitated with our financial decisions,
but don't let it control our behaviors and dictate what we do
next.
Make sure we get into that metacognition, think about
what's happening, get the data, be patient, and make good
decisions.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, stay the course if the fundamentals still
ring true.
If there's a if there's a significant shift in the
fundamentals, do people have to live in a house?
Do they need shelter?
That there's no change to that fundamental.
We're not going to go and move back into the caves.
Yeah.
Right?
But then it is about, well, if you then understand what drives
short and long-term value, short-term value is absolutely
fundamentally driven by supply and demand.
What drives supply and demand?
Access to credit.
Because if you give me the money, I'll go and buy it.
Like, you know, for investment or for owner-occupied, say when
it comes to residential property, because as an
owner-occupier, I'm an emotional buyer.
So I'll buy with my my my heart, not my head, right?
And so investors' smart money follows that, follows that
course, right?
So that's it, and in the long term, it is the agglomeration,
it's the scarcity of the land, it's the size of the economy
that improves the land value over time.
So that just shows up.
Because why?
Because in a bigger economy, what happens to workers?
They get paid more, they get specialized in that
specialization, they get higher incomes.
Higher incomes lead to the ability to be able to borrow
more.
I borrow more because I want a nicer home and I've got status.
So it moves from a need to a want, and then you get this
meshing of the two, and that's why you have, you know, prestige
suburbs and luxe suburbs, and um, you know, sort of chest
beating suburbs, and you also just have suburbs that are just
standard run-of-the-mill because they just provide the initial
sense of shelter.
That's the fundamentals in terms of wrapping it up into property.
And and again, you know, one of our philosophies here at our
business is do our best to not lose money for our clients,
right?
If it's our money and we go and splash a thousand bucks to have
a speculative punt, that's that's our call, our call.
But when we're playing with clients' money, it's a zero
no-sum gap.
We are doing everything we can.
And if it means that we might uh move off this idea of being able
to get a higher return um in a speculative market in the short
term, sorry, there's still too greater risk of basically losing
our clients' money, we're not interested.
So we'll stay in the value investing camp.
SPEAKER_02: You're like doctors, first do no harm.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
Well, I I and it serves it serves us well.
I mean, you know, in terms of over the 4,000 properties that
we've bought, there's very, very few that we would say, would we
have our time again that we wouldn't buy that same asset?
So and and that sort of bodes well in terms of what we're
trying to do.
Now, of course, we can't control pandemics, um, lockdowns, um,
you know, economies that haven't come out of lockdown well, like
the Melbourne economy.
So we didn't anticipate that.
So when we're buying properties in 2019, 2020, 2021, we were
confident in terms of the long-term prospects, but it's
they are definitely underperformed, you know, and
some of our clients can feel a little bit pissed, and they
should, because you know, at the end of the day, and they're
getting a little bit impatient in terms of when is it going to
turn around because the reality is there's still risk, and in
this particular case, it's political or regulatory risk
that's slowing down the economic activity that's happening in the
state.
And so when that gets adjusted, because it does, over time
everything sort of moves back.
Um, you'll start to see you know the market moves.
SPEAKER_03: This is one of the fundamentals, isn't it?
Is buy and hold.
You've been doing it for the long term.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: If you if you've got a good asset that stacks up
today, it should stack up in 20 or 30 years.
SPEAKER_02: And that's the beauty of property, really,
isn't it?
Because we're not just looking for that capital gain, we're
getting a return on it while we hold it.
We've got someone helping us pay the mortgage down, so there's
there's that risk mitigation as well.
SPEAKER_04: But it's very true that property investing is a
behavioural journey as much as it is a financial one.
That's true.
Um the market does expose your psychology.
So when it when things are challenged, how do you hold
attention?
How do you remain patient?
SPEAKER_01: When money's involved, it brings out those
big feelings and you know, sometimes the worst.
SPEAKER_04: So accept it to your point, Brett, which is the great
advice you gave earlier, which is okay, I can't change the
feeling I'm experiencing now.
Yeah, but how do I think about that feeling a little bit longer
and work out what's in behind that feeling and then get the
questions that I need, start to answer those questions, but to
that point, if I can't answer them, go to a professional who
can, who can give you some independent advice in terms of
what that looks like.
Um, and of course, you know, the final message we have here in
wrapping up is well creation rewards consistency, patience,
and that emotional resilience.
I think is a really good thing there in terms of what that
story is.
Uh any final comments, mate, before we wrap?
SPEAKER_03: No, no, I think it's, you know, we've spoken
about think, feel, act, but what I would say is think, feel,
think again, and then act.
All right, and so I think that and that's the pause, the
reflect, be patient, you know, and and understand yourself.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: I'm going home to pause.
Just to just that's simple.
It sounds so simple, but it's so important.
So thank you.
Appreciate the learning.
SPEAKER_04: And I think for anyone who's, you know, gonna
digest this and have some slow thinking about this particular
episode, just think about it like this.
What mindset story are you telling yourself about money
right now?
Because it could be detrimental, and you could be making or
taking actions off the back of that detrimental thinking.
So make sure your thinking is accurate if it is, make sure
it's backed up by the data or someone who's got experience to
can validate your thinking.
So by all means express them, share them, yeah, don't hold
them in, don't then think you're making the right decision until
you vet them with experienced people.
Um, and if you then do that and it still doesn't quite make
sense to you, well, maybe that's the time to pull the trigger if
you need to.
But otherwise, if you do stay the long term, um you'll be
rewarded.
And investing in wealth creation happens in that space.
So thank you.
Patience.
Patience, patience and pausing.
Absolutely.
Well, there you have it.
Uh, you know, we we tried to uh set off on a journey today um to
talk about the mindset loop, and that's also about how your
thoughts then impact your feelings and emotions, and then
the the rational or irrational actions that you take off that.
And that can come in the form of FOMO, the fear of missing out,
which can happen in rushing markets and animal spirits
environments, but it can also then show up in Fongo, which we
haven't necessarily talked about, but we'll talk about
more, which is the fear of not getting out, which is
potentially what some people might be feeling now in certain
markets.
So be careful about those.
So that was the mindset loop.
Then we wanted to share with you the fails in stress and the
resilience.
So that's the behavioural stuff that we're talking about, and
how you frame those things up, how you think about those, and
then ultimately some of those practical steps that you take.
Um, Brett had some good ones there around obviously making
sure that you um you understand yourself, you regulate yourself,
um, that self-awareness, that emotional regulation, and also
reframing some of those setbacks because we are going to make
mistakes.
Ideally, we don't want to be making those mistakes or big
mistakes or getting impatient when it comes to large financial
transactions.
Um we can all make a spontaneous purchase like KD did and buying
a house and then realizing that wasn't quite right.
We prefer those to be the pair of jeans rather than the house.
But uh hopefully you got uh got something to take away and think
about off there.
Bret, is there any um one one final thought uh just came to
mind?
Is there anything um that you would lead them towards in terms
of um education?
I know Dr.
Gervais is a you're a massive fan of Dr.
Michael Gervais, as are we, who we had on the 500th episode of
this podcast, but he's got an amazing book.
He does.
Um would that is that where you'd lead people with?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would, yeah, yeah.
It's um you know stop worrying about what other people are
thinking.
Yeah, and um because most of the time they're thinking about
themselves, not you.
Um but also the um uh atomic habits, you know, yeah, I think
that's a clear understanding.
We also have on the pod.
Yeah, we also check out that episode as well.
Yeah, understand the education around that.
SPEAKER_04: Some great advice there, so thank you.
Thank you.
Catch group, great to have you guys on.
I'll do it again sometime later in the year.
It's a pleasure.
Thank you.
Okay, until next week, just remember everyone, knowledge is
empowering when you've got the right mindset, but only if you
act on the right time.
See you next week.
SPEAKER_00: Hey folks, Epty here, the Smart Money Cidekick
InsideMore.
Just one quick thing before we sign off.
If you're new to the property catch community, welcome.
One quick tip to help you get the most value from the show.
Our first 20 episodes cover the foundations we build on every
week.
And yes, listening on one and a half speed is totally
acceptable.
If you're short on time, download our free binge guide.
It distills those episodes into one easy read with heaps of
visual diagrams, alongside free tools inside more, your
all-in-one financial home, to help you organize your money and
plan your next best move.
Check out all the links in our show description.
And just a quick reminder before you go anything we cover on this
podcast is general in nature.
It's not considered to be financial advice, and we
certainly recommend that you seek out professional advice
before making any financial decisions.
Once again, everything mentioned is linked in the show
description.
Ready when you are.
Catch you next week.