Episode 221 - Vests Over Shirts

When "love" is used as a weapon and "reputation" becomes a motive. This episode explores the devastating phenomenon of honor killings—a practice that turns family members into foes under the guise of tradition. We’re looking at the psychology behind the act, the cultural pressures that fuel it, and why justice is so often hard to find when the crime is kept within the house.

Research links below!


The Guardian - "Banaz Mahmod was murdered 20 years ago; the fight for a law on 'honour'-based abuse goes on"
BBC News - "Banaz Mahmod 'honour' killing cousins jailed for life"
Fuuse - "Banaz A Love Story"
"Criminology Knowledge Organiser: The Case of Banaz Mahmod"
The Guardian - "'Honour killings? It should be called the devil's work': Bekhal Mahmod on the murder of her sister"
Global Citizen - "Child Marriage Survivor Payzee Mahmod Is Fighting to Change the Law"
The Guardian - "The kiss of death"
BBC News - "Lover 'heartbroken' over killing"
Girls Not Brides - "United Kingdom"

Amnesty International - "The Horror of 'Honor Killings', Even in US"
NPR - "Father Found Guilty In Arizona 'Honor Killing'"
Paramount+ - "A Global Manhunt for a Father of a Young Murder Victim Leads '48 Hours Mystery' to Examine Honor Killings"
abcNews - "Muslim Man Guilty of 'Honor Killing' in Daughter's Death"
48 Hours Mystery - "Honor Killing on trial"

Speaker 1: Yeah, their arrivalspeakable.

Speaker 2: I'm not.

Speaker 1: They It's got to worry about.

Speaker 2: Something.

Speaker 1: If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at

least I felt that I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm

VICKI I'm Rachel. We are back again by everyone delirious

from the False Spring. Oh my god, I've been talking,

as we do in the Midwest. Right, we were talking

to each other about the weather constantly. It's gonna be

warm forever. Now it's time for summer. But everybody that

I've talked to, it's like now that it was false spring.

I mean, we've all lived here long enough to be like, Okay,

we get we do have an actual fifth season called

fall spring. It's like a sexy little tease yes, where

it's like it gets super warm and then really coold.

Put away your jacket, Hey, put.

Speaker 2: It in the basic sixty degrees. You don't even need

it anymore. Psuch.

Speaker 3: The next day it's snowing, had the windows open and

everything day it's fucking freezing.

Speaker 2: I sadly dug my winter coat back out.

Speaker 3: I know, I have literally in my kitchen on like

the or in my like dining room, on the back

of my chairs, there is like a rotation of about

three jackets that get mixed and matched and layered in

various ways depending on how cold it is. And then

of course if it's really cold, there's like the winter coat,

like the actual winter coat. But like I have to

keep them all out right now because day to day I'm.

Speaker 2: Like, I don't what am I gonna wear?

Speaker 3: So annoying, so I have like three or four coats

on rotation. I hate in various layering things.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like I know it's like global warming and stuff,

but I just want to live in an area where

the weather is more predictable. However, can we talk about

how I went skiing last night? Say it was so fun.

I haven't got it like fifteen years. You're sitting across

from me in like a cast.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I am totally fine. I do have a couple

of bruises. I have a very interesting pattern of blisters

that have kind of started to heal.

Speaker 2: But it was so worth it.

Speaker 3: I felt like three times, which is pretty good, that's

not that many.

Speaker 2: And it was just a blast.

Speaker 3: It was just like it was so fun, so much fun,

and it snowed like actually it snowed a shit except

there it had rained the night before, which kind of

made things some ice patches and stuff. But it was fine, honestly.

I mean, I feel like that would just make you

go fast. I was sore for like three days. I

couldn't walk straight.

Speaker 2: It was like muscles and places you didn't know you had.

It was both of my calves, which you don't realize

how much you need those day to.

Speaker 3: Day until you can't use them, and both of my quads.

Speaker 2: That which was fine, then a little bit of my

shoulders because but so worth it. Yeah, it looked really fun.

It was so fun. Dude, I will not be going

to that, but I'm so glad you. This is why

I went with Alexa Davian because I'm like, you guys

are my friends who are like the active friends that

will go do shit. Yeah like this with me, which

I so appreciate. Next time you get like a horror

movie in a pizza a call your old pale Rachel

friend you're snowboarning.

Speaker 3: No, yeah, Ben, there's that many people that I can

convince you know what I gotta say, Like, it's not

it's not that bad.

Speaker 2: It's not that bad. I am at least a year

older than you, and I survived. Well, that's fair. I'm

young at heart, you guys, I'm having a crisis. My

nose is broken. Oh gosh, is your nose broken? Call in.

I excitedly showed my friends my new perfume and they

were like, you smell like a grandma.

Speaker 3: She does smell like grandma. It literally, yeah, smells so good.

And you guys are crazy.

Speaker 2: Maybe your guys is Grandma smells Grandma so good. It's

grandma smell. It's not a bad thing Grandma smelled. That

makes me sad. All right, We're.

Speaker 3: Gonna move on to Netflix and Kill, which this week

is a neighbor or a neighbors an.

Speaker 2: HBO and Kill. We're talking about neighbors. We're talking about neighbors. Sorry,

I was reading it off ice. There are so many

of these like apps, these streaming apps that I'm like, oh,

I just haven't heard of that one. Neighbors.

Speaker 3: Yes, not to be confused with the movie of the

same name. Oh yes, it was like zac Efron and

that's the like one with like Will Ferrell or like

live next to like a frat house. Yeah, Dave Franco's Frank.

Dave Fright, that's it. He does like James Franco is

James Frank or Dave Franco.

Speaker 2: It's Dave because he does like a really good Robert

de Niro impression. And I remember seeing the clip of

it and I was like, that's well, we're not talking

about that one. I want to We're talking about the

new TV series from HBO, HBO original of course. Of course,

Also might I add an A twenty four production, which

the people who know me very well know that I

am obsessed with, like literally anything a twenty five. I

love a twenty four as well. It is yees.

Speaker 3: So it is so good an HBO original and a

twenty four production. And basically, so as we record this,

there are I think three episodes out. By the time

this comes out, they will probably all be out. It's

called Neighbors Okay, and it is an episodic documentary series

where they profile various neighborly disputes. Ok They do two

an episode, and it's not like one followed throughout the

whole season. They're like, each episode is different disputes that

they do to an episode, and the disputes tend to

be linked in some way as far as Like the

first episode both had to do with land disputes, okay.

A second episode had to do with animals little like cohesion.

Yeah yeah. The third episode had to do with boundaries

between neighbors like where the property line. Oh, such a

common and what it will do is it'll come in,

they'll talk, They'll talk to both neighbors, they get both sides.

They sort of profile these people, and then they have

tended to follow them through whatever sort of most recent

resolution okay happens. Okay, So, for instance, on episode one

is pretty good because you get these these two guys

who live out in the middle of nowhere in like

Arizona or something, and one.

Speaker 2: I'm sorry in rural Montana. Okay.

Speaker 3: One comes in. He's upset that the other lets these

horses run oliver his property, and he decides to put

a gate up on this road that he claims is

a private road, and this other guy says it's like

a public road, and so they are like in mediation talks.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 3: Well, then they start talking to these people and the

one guy is like majorly into D and D. He

does all of this home crafting, like woodworking stuff, and

the other guy is like a QAnon guy.

Speaker 2: Oh God, okay, well I want that.

Speaker 3: Like because of this thing, So they bring in mediators.

In the same episode, they are talking to people in

Florida in regards to a dispute about shoreline access and

where public and private beaches end, because there has been

a long running disputes between people who own homes on

the beaches and whether the beach behind their house is

their property and whether it can be problems. So it

kind of sees the meeting between those two. It doesn't

necessarily get resolved, but that's kind of the result they have.

Second episode has to do with these two guys, these

husband and husband who live in Indiana in their like

retirement home, and their neighbor across the street, her grandson

and his wife, move in and they decide they want

to start raising livestock and sort of starting this farm.

And it's like not in the country, Like it's sort

of like, oh geez, yeah, it's like if somebody who

were to do it in Maringo, but like a cow,

well in my gle ass farm in their front yard.

And he's like, the couple is like, this is our

retirement home, Like we walk outside. All we hear is

farm noises. Smell is a farm. Oh god, I've had

our property assessed and it's brought our property to value

down by X amount. And so it follows them into

a like a council town council meeting where there's a

kiddy behind her.

Speaker 2: I know I heard. I just didn't want you to

be like what no I saw him come in. So

they followed him.

Speaker 3: To this town council meeting where like, uh, he was

trying to get a special exemption in order to raise

these farm animals, right, So like it follows that in

the same token. The other one of that episode is

this woman in Philadelphia who has this neighbor who bought

a house who's like a guy with his wife and kids,

family first, like actual home, and he's upset because she

is feeding the cats and they're in like Philadelphia, like

in Philadelphia, right, and she's feeding like the neighborhood cats

and building shelters and all this, and he's like, they're

shitting in our front yard. They're you know, if they die,

there's like fucking dead cats on my property. And I

want my kids to able to come out and use

the front yard and do, and I can't do that

right now because it's so condaminated because she just keeps

attracting cats.

Speaker 2: They go on Judge Judy and she fucking loses.

Speaker 3: She's like, you have to stop feeding the fucking cats

and give him like he won like a lot of

like six thousand dollars.

Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's crazy.

Speaker 3: So anyway, it is this kind of stuff that which

I'm in one way or another, but I do like that.

It's sort of again, it sort of like profiles these

people where it's like, Okay, who are you?

Speaker 2: Like, what is what are you about? Like what is

the deal?

Speaker 3: And some of them the one I just watched this

morning that was the newest episode, Like some of these people,

you're like, okay, both parties in this are insane.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. It's it's not always quite so

like black and white. Yeah, it's like a way, yeah,

and I'll tell you too.

Speaker 3: It's also very interesting because in every single one of

these situations there is like this constant escalation to the

point where both parties typically are like, well, you know,

if it comes to it, like I have ways to

defend myself, Like I have guns in the house, I

have this in the house. I have like if he

comes over here and tries to pull some shit, like

I'm ready to go. But it's like both sides are

saying that right, which oh great, can end one of

two ways.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna escalate.

Speaker 3: And there have been countless times where these neighborly disputes

have escalated to a point where somebody is getting shot

or killed.

Speaker 2: Or get violent real quick.

Speaker 3: Yes, yes, like it's it's insane. So anyway, very good series.

Speaker 2: I've really watched it. You should watch it. See. That's

something I think about a lot. Like sometimes I feel

like the real like natural human state is like to

live communally, like live with a bunch of people. But

then I'm like, people do suck though. Yeah, so it's

kind of like I don't know how I feel, you

know what I mean? Yeah, Yeah, definitely I would. I'm

gonna watch you check it out. It's a great series.

It's also executive produced by Let's See Josh Safti, Eli

Bush who did he produced Lady Bird, and Ronald Bronstein,

who is Let's See. He wrote and edited the independent

film Frownland.

Speaker 1: Oh.

Speaker 3: He was a co editor for Uncut Gems. Oh yeah, anyway,

check it out. It's very interesting.

Speaker 1: You know.

Speaker 3: I like a little profile which again doesn't seem crime related,

but a lot of times these are like going to

court and going to you know, getting involved in the

legal system, which often views them as an arduous process.

Speaker 2: They're calling lime is still crime.

Speaker 3: They're calling police every time someone's on their property they're

not doing what they want them to, and then the

police have to respond.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to make it clear why I'm bringing

this up, because it is a very good series, but

it is related.

Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's crime. It's crime.

Speaker 3: It's I don't know if it's crime, but it's definitely legal.

It's a crime. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I skipped the newsroom

we normally do news room first.

Speaker 2: We watched right past.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I did, because I was very excited to talk

about this. I think it was on my computer screen

and on my phone.

Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you just watched it this morning,

so it's I did just wash in your head. So

we're going to back up a little bit and go

to the newsroom. Let's go back down the hallway to

a Q little three points watching today. We had our

news this week. Okay, they're in the same hallway. Oh good,

we don't have far to go. Yeah, we just somebody

the coffee room. Somebody put donuts on there, got distracted.

Speaker 3: Our news this week comes from Central City, Kentucky, where

a guy was arrested justin I'm sorry, let me see,

I just noticed you. Oh yeah, that's so pretty thank you.

Randy Alan Osborne was arrested after authorities got a nine

to one one call from somebody who had passed by

on a road and said they saw a person having

an inappropriate act with a dead deer on the.

Speaker 2: Side of the road. Girl. What Yeah, So they called

nine one one Hello. They're like, I don't know if

this is illegal, but it's weird Kentucky. Please, He's like,

I just needed to tell somebody.

Speaker 3: They went out, they arrested him. It says that he

was a rest said for the act. Yeah, and he

uh when they picked him up. Let's see, the man

had blood from the deer on his hands and other

evidence which suggested he had contact with the deer. And

he has. He potentially is looking at a charge of

sexual crimes against animals.

Speaker 2: Even though it's dead. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I almost

wondered if it would go more for like indecent exposure.

So do you think do you think it's less bad

if no, I don't think it's bad just with the legality.

I was sure if it would be more of like

you're doing this where people can see you, that's like

indecent exposure. Even it could be like low key like

sexual assault, right, but like it's a crime against animals

even though the animal is dead. That's just interesting to me. Yeah,

because it's yeah, well I guess it could be interesting. Yeah,

legal stuff is interested said to be fair, they do

not specify the act. They just referenced it by the app.

I am curious. Yeah, I want to logistically, I'm like,

show me the dash camp. Did they come up on

him in the process that they come up on him

coming up on the gross Okay, So that's our news

for Sue. We're gonna We're gonna move on. We're gonna

move on. Oh, because honestly, the rest of this episode

is gonna be pretty fucking serious. Yeah, it's real sad

down we got.

Speaker 3: To this is that part of the show where he

say content may not be appropriate for all listeners. We

are definitely talking about some real heavy stuff today.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a sad one today. Sorry, my bad, my fault. Yeah,

I'm interested in what led you to this topic?

Speaker 3: Yeah, so we have previously and I was like, you know,

we haven't done this in a while, maybe this would

be a good topic we have previously Rachel talked about. Yes, Yeah,

we had previously talked about revenge killings.

Speaker 2: Okay, because similar.

Speaker 3: That is a thing, yes, where you know, as we

talked about in previous episodes. You know, if you see

it a lot when like somebody is a victim of

a crime and you know, family members or friends or whatever,

somebody feels like they need to get retribution for that,

you set a lot in that revenge for you know,

losing jobs or losing relationships.

Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, triangle kind of thing, right, right,

So I was intending.

Speaker 3: To do that, right, but under the sort of umbrella

of revenge crimes or revenge murder, I kept running into

honor killings. Yes, so, which is again like it's massive

like there unfortunately is it is a huge problem and

there are a lot of cases to cover, which is

not a good thing. No, but it's also something I

don't know that we have necessarily talked about in depth

on the show, and so, uh, I'm gonna be honest

with you, the timing could not have been fucking worse.

Speaker 2: Yeah, because I didn't know what was gonna happen. Not

to be political, uh, but we are literally like one

day post bombing Iran, so I didn't realize that was

gonna happen. But I do still want to talk about

some of these things because it's like that like when

The Dark Knight came out and they were releasing all

the trailers and by the time they were releasing the trailers,

Heath Ledger had just died. And the tagline for the

movie was if you you live long enough to see

if you don't become a hero, you live long enough

to see yourself become a villain if you die a hero,

And it was so everyone was like, oh, like, hey, guys,

their editing team did that forever ago. They're not doing

it on purpose, so please give us a little grace.

I mean, I don't I'm not saying that because I

think it would. Anything's gonna know, this is real. My

typing's been real shitty. I know it's really.

Speaker 3: Good, honestly, because I do think this is something that

needs to be talked about. This is not just a

European problem. This is also something that happens widely in

the US. Yes, so we are going to talk about

a couple of honor killings.

Speaker 2: Yes, that is today's very grim.

Speaker 3: This is why I'm like, it is not a light episode,

is a real heavy one.

Speaker 2: So I apologize. If you're not ready for that, maybe

just skip this one and come back.

Speaker 3: But that's okay, that's fine, we'll see, we'll meet you

where you're atine. But before we get started into the case,

as you know, I love to pull some facts and statistics,

pull it to give some context to things that we.

Speaker 2: Just don't talk about that frequently. Very good.

Speaker 3: So these are all from Amnesty International. Good Okay. So

the UN estimates that around five thousand women and girls

are murdered each year and so called honor killings by

members of their family. Honor killings are widely reported in

regions throughout the Middle East and South Asia, but these

crimes against women occur in countries as varied as Bangladesh, Brazil, Canada, Ecuador, Egypt, India,

Iran and Iraq, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, Uganda,

United Kingdom, and the United States.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a widespread yeah, very widespread. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm glad you clarified, because I feel like a lot

of people are like, that's just like a Middle Eastern thing,

and I'm like, yo, the fuck it's not.

Speaker 3: Yeah, And let's be real, the world is a multipot, right,

It's not like people who.

Speaker 2: Just stay in their own area from right.

Speaker 3: No, you know, people are gonna move and cultures are

gonna spread, right, And unfortunately this is very much a

whole over a very traditional, longstanding cultures. Not saying that

it's right, but it is just like part of that. Right,

So there are going to be people in the world trauma.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no fucking kidding. But it comes from a lot

of different sources.

Speaker 3: So, like other forms of violence against women, honor violence

against women may be considered a form of torture, whether

enacted by the state or by an individual. While honor

crime is committed predominantly against women and girls, honor crime

is also on the rise against lgbtq I A plus people,

particularly gay men. In many countries, the punishment for honor

crimes are inadequate or non existent laws either do not

recognize honor crimes or have insufficient sentencing for such crime.

And in countries where laws have been passed to curb

honor crime, for example in Jordan's, such laws often go unenforced.

I do think this is just again not saying it's new,

but it's like new to the law trying to tackle it.

And I think there is a lot of trial and

error in the way that they pass things and the

way they enforce things. Yeah, and it's not always great.

Speaker 2: So like which, we'll talk.

Speaker 3: About the legal implications of this. I'm sure I know,

I do for yeah, I do too. And then lastly,

according to the Iranian and Kurdish Rights Organization, honor killings

are on the rise, especially in Europe and in the US.

Speaker 2: Yes, so yep, context, this world is bad. It's fucking terrible.

I hate it.

Speaker 3: So we I am going to talk about the murder

of Benazma mood so Banaz was one of five daughters

and a son to a traditional Iraqi Kurdish family, and

when she was ten in nineteen ninety five, the family

left Iraq and went to go seek asylum in the

United Kingdom, Okay, where honestly like there were already like

uncles and stuff that had gone to the United Kingdom.

Speaker 2: Oh that's nice, so like a family, right.

Speaker 3: So they went over to like where the same area

that all of her uncles were kind of settled, Like

that's kind of where they ended up.

Speaker 2: That makes sense. Real quick, guys, if you hear an

ominous jingling in the background, I was just the cat.

Speaker 3: You kiddy, Pachel, you don't even have to acknowledge. Oh,

I'm sorry, it's fine.

Speaker 2: I didn't know. You don't even have to it.

Speaker 3: It probably will, but it's fine. We just pretend it's

not happening. Okay, we're moving on over Like, are you

talking about it? We got things to do here, Okay, sorry,

cat busy, We're busy.

Speaker 2: He's like, wow, so well you bring this up. What

I've tried to describe something real fucking horrible. I'm sorry.

It was a very loud jingling. Killed I didn't want

people to think they were going crazy.

Speaker 3: Well, let me get into my fucking terrible get into it,

get into it. Unfortunately, Benaz and all of her sisters

were subject to the horrible treatment of women in many

traditional Iraqi Kurdish homes before they had even left their

home country in Iraq, the four eldest daughters, which included Benas,

had been subject to female genital mutilation.

Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, that's horrible.

Speaker 3: Her eldest sister had been forced into an arranged marriage.

Speaker 2: Really don't acknowledge it, Pickle, I know, but now it's bike.

Speaker 3: Her eldest sister had been forced into an arranged marriage

to a man fifteen years older than her when she

was sixteen.

Speaker 2: Oh my god.

Speaker 3: Followed shortly after by her younger sister, Paisy, another older

sister of Benas. Beckel attempted to escape the family, spending

some time in foster care. In a later memoir that

she would write, Beckle details physical abuse use from her

family for associating with Western people. That's so sad, uh,

and like getting into the sort of like western clothing

style and like hairstyles.

Speaker 2: That plays in heavily in mind as well.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems to be a pretty common They were like,

no fucking way, you're becoming too westernized. Yep, they're very traditional.

After she managed to run away, Beckle says she was

threatened by her father that if she didn't come home,

he would kill her mom, sisters, and himself.

Speaker 2: Oh my god.

Speaker 3: But despite these threats, Beckel instead stayed on the run,

wearing a full veil wherever she went in like fear

of being recognized because again, like the people that are

there and the people her family associates associates with are

very traditional Kurdish families. Yes, they would snitch. It's a

very tight close knit community. Like yeah, so she was

like scared shitless wearing a veil so she wasn't recognized.

And this actually resulted in her father mood my mood,

being cast out by some of the members of the

community because he couldn't like control his daughters.

Speaker 2: Wow.

Speaker 3: They're like, you can't control your family, you can't control

your women, Like, we don't want to associate with you.

Speaker 2: I don't want to associate with them either. Yeah. No,

you'll be saying you'll be saying the same thing.

Speaker 3: By the end of this first marriage finally came for

Benaz when she was around sixteen or seventeen years old.

She described her future unwanted husband as a man ten

years older and from her traditional hometown who was illiterate

and old fashioned. Oh my god. After the two were married,

Banas continued to be physically abused by her new husband,

even raped, something that she had attempted to bring to

the attention of police and her parents, though it seems like,

honestly like none of them were really willing to help,

right at all. Especially her parents were like, well.

Speaker 2: God, that's so disgusting. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Her family had gone so far as to say that

if she decided to leave that it would only bring

shame on the family. Too bad, right, But after two

years of staying in a horrible, unwanted marriage, but Naz

decided to leave and did actually return to live with

her parents in July two thousand and five.

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 3: It was also around then that twenty year old Banaz

met her new boyfriend, someone she picked for herself, a

man named Ramat Sulimani. This is from the Guardian quote.

She had described him as open minded and respectful, and

the pair had hoped to marry.

Speaker 2: That's nice, it is nice. I know, I'm like I.

Speaker 3: Ramat, as you probably guessed, was not part of the

same Iraqi Kurdish community that Benaz was from.

Speaker 2: Was he of the same nationality?

Speaker 1: Like?

Speaker 2: Was he Iraqi? Do you know? Don't I think he was?

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely a Middle Eastern yeah, because they did

talk about him not being Iraqi Kurdish, and he also

wasn't Muslim like he was Okay, so he was very

much I'm sure he was of the same descent, but

like not like I was waiting for her to get

like a white like London boyfriend and for them to

like totally flip, oh, yeah, you would think like, yeah,

maybe they were like at Lasty's mill, but he was

like more more Western, right, totally. They talk about how

Ramont was like a friend of the family, like he

I think did some handiwork for them and had dinners

and stuff. But they were like, you're absolutely not good

enough for one of our daughters, right because.

Speaker 2: He's not from the same Yeah, I see, yeah, this

is awful. I don't like this one.

Speaker 3: But so, like I said, Ramott was not part of

the same Kurdish community but as is from and the

two knew that their relationship would be met with this disapproval,

so for a while they were able to meet in secret,

have these sort of like secret rendezvous and again from

the Guardian quote, a few months into their relation into

her relationship with mister Sulimani, which began an autumn two

thousand and five, the lovers were spotted together. They were

followed by a group of men in a car watching

and waiting. When they kissed, those watching captured it on

a mobile phone.

Speaker 2: Oh no.

Speaker 3: These men immediately then went to the family to show

evidence of what they had discovered and which was an

unsanctioned relationship with somebody from outside of the community.

Speaker 2: Assholes.

Speaker 3: And on December second, two thousand and five, Ari Aga Mahmoud,

who was another of Banaza's uncles. It was her one

of her dad's brothers. Okay, but he was also pointed to,

even though he was the youngest, was kind of like

the head of the family.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: So ari calls a meeting in his home with like

the men and they're like, okay, well we have to

do something about this. And their only solution was to

kill Benaz and Ramat for all of the shame that

they had brought onto their family.

Speaker 2: Oh no.

Speaker 3: The same day as the meeting, likely after they had

come to a decision, one of our her uncle, Banaz's uncle,

called Banaz's mother to tell her what they were planning.

They're like, this is what we're gonna do. Benaz overheard

this phone call. Oh, and she, fearing for her life

as she should have, uh, went to the police and

reported this threaten her life.

Speaker 2: Good for you, you would think, so, oh God.

Speaker 3: About ten days later, Banaz left a She returned to

the police station and leaves this list of people who

are like these are the people that are going to

be after me. And of course it's like her uncles

and some of their like her cousins and her friends.

And after that they decided to pay a visit to

her house where she lives with her parents, which is like, okay, well,

at least they're doing something about it.

Speaker 2: But they they're drawing it. They're putting here in danger.

Speaker 3: And and they go there and she's like, oh no,

I didn't say it, like turns them away, like right,

please leave. Yeah again from the Guardian quote. But the

police failed to do anything to save her. In fact,

by tipping off her parents about her allegations, as they

did on at least one occasion, the police may have

made matters worse. May have and they definitely made I'm

sure they walked in like hello, we're here for the

abused daughter. Yeah, like get the fuck out of there,

like going with a swat team right airlift her ass

out of the something or something like more discreet right

like right, hey, meet us here right right. On New

Year's Eve, Banas was taken to her grandmother's house, where

her father and uncle had planned to take her life.

While there, Banaz was forced to drink a bottle of brandy,

which caused her to become drunk and disoriented, but also

was like super against her religion very much, so like

they do not drink alcohol, so she's like drunk, basically

a force drunk, she manages to escape out of a

back door and tries to smash a neighbor's window in

order to get help and cuts herself. She like cuts

her wrists in the process of smashing this so police

and emergency services are called the conn Ambulance, and when

they arrive, she tells them that her father was trying

to kill her, like she just keeps saying, like, my

dad was trying to kill me, and my father was

trying to kill me, but they didn't take her seriously.

Oh my god again from the Guardian quote. Called to

the scene, Constable Angela Corns labeled her melodramatic and manipulative

and failed to report the alleged crime. Police then interviewed

her parents, ensuring they were in no doubt about their

daughter's allegations end quote.

Speaker 2: Luckily for later.

Speaker 3: Trials, When they take her to the hospital, Ramat has

the foresight to take out his phone and record Banas

making a statement about the attack. Smart and like, what

would happen? Like, what happened girl? And they talk about

in the video you can see she's like still obviously

drunk and like slurring her weeds. Well she I mean

she was forced to drink the brandy. Yeah, And so

he decides to take a video of her like saying

what happened, which later gets turned over to police and

was crucial in.

Speaker 2: These later trials. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 3: So, following the altercation, Banas went to stay at Ramat's house,

but was later persuaded to return home.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 3: They were like, you're very common, not in any danger,

Like everything fine, Yeah, Just a couple of weeks later,

an attempt was made to kidnap Ramot. Interestingly enough, three

of the men involved in that attempted kidnapping were named

on the list that Benaz had already given to You

go to the shock of nobody, right, I'm sure right, Like, honestly, dude.

Both Banaz and Ramat reported the kidnapping separately to police,

and Benaza's scheduled to return to the police station on

January twenty fourth, two thousand and six, but unfortunately she

would never arrive. That morning, while Benaz was still sleeping,

her parents had left the home to take her younger

sister to school and run some errands, and just after

they left, three men Mohammed Maried Hama, Mohammed Salai Ali

and Omar Hussain arrived at the home, where they raped

and tortured Benas for two hours before she was strangled

to death. They then put her body in a suitcase,

taking to a house in Birmingham and burying her in

the garden.

Speaker 2: God, that's awful. Yeah, yeah, poor baby. Yeah.

Speaker 3: On January twenty fifth, after it so the day after,

after not being able to contact Banas, Ramont reported her missing.

Speaker 2: To the police. Yet again they chose not to take

their reports seriously. Yeah, you know, I'm sure she'll turn up.

Speaker 3: And when the parents were asked about their daughter's whereabouts,

they claim they're just like easy going, you know, and

she goes out all the time and We're just like

not really worried about it. Really fine.

Speaker 2: We don't stalk her through the neighborhood, right, like get

the fuck.

Speaker 3: Yeah, like not having to be worried about sometimes she'll

just be gone for days. We're very easygoing parents.

Speaker 2: I don't worry about it. It's just whatever. Uh.

Speaker 3: They did eventually like officially interview her parents during this

and her uncle during this whole investigation and search their homes, right,

and these interviews revealed some inconsistencies that sort of sparked

a larger and they're like, Okay, maybe we need to

investigate here. And at that time the investigation was handed

over to the Metropolitan Police Homicide and Serious Crime Command.

They were still working on the assumption that Benaz was

alive and being held against her will. Eventually, their investigation

led them to arrest Benaz's father and some other suspects.

Of course, none of them were cooperating and there were

like a lot of threats going to the police from

the Kurage community to try to stop this investigation. But

I know thanks to an identification from Ramat, Mohammad Marid

Hama was arrested and charged with murder on February fourth

two thousand and six, as he was awaiting trial, Hama

was covertly recorded bragging about the murder and the role

he and others played in the killing, including her uncle

and some of her cousins. Like that fucking naming names

right and being recorded with that.

Speaker 2: Uh.

Speaker 3: This recording, along with vehicle tracking data, led authorities to

Benaza's body approximately three months after she first disappeared.

Speaker 2: I can't even imagine how it took three months. I know,

like the incontinence is crazy.

Speaker 3: Well, once she literally came to them and it's like

these are the people were going to murder me and

they fucking did.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 3: Not long after, Mahmood bab Kir Mahmood, her father, was

also charged with murder, so they had arrested him, but

he hadn't been charged.

Speaker 2: Uh.

Speaker 3: By this time, Mohammed Sala Ali and Omar Hussin had

fled back to Iraqi, Iraqi Kurtisan, where they would actually

stay for a few years. Like it was years before

we would hear from these guys again. But in two

thousand and seven, then Ali was involved in a hit

and run that killed a young boy and was arrested.

Speaker 2: What a great guy. He's a real winner.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that news, Like the news of this hit and

run made it to Scotland Yard who is able to

successfully extra dighte Ali back to the UK.

Speaker 2: In June two thousand and nine.

Speaker 3: Wow, this was actually the first time someone had been

extra idea from Iraq back to the UK.

Speaker 2: That's like a huge, huge thing. Yeah, oh my god. Yeah.

They were like, we don't want this fucking guy. Yeah,

uh yeah, take him back. We don't want it now.

Speaker 3: Hussein, who at this point was still in Iraq. He

had been hiding out with some of his brothers, like

off the radar, but he re emerged after they got

into a dispute with He got into his dispute with

one of his brothers, like in it this huge argument

and he ends up getting a shot in the leg.

They take him to the hospital and when he gets

to the hospital, he was immediately arrested. They're like, we've

been looking for you.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 3: Hussein claimed that he had not been in the UK

at the time of the murder and.

Speaker 2: This is all a big mistake.

Speaker 3: Yeah, this was mistaken identity, Paz, I'm not that guy, no,

but there was overwhelming evidence of confirming his identity, and

he also was extradited back to the UK in March

twenty ten.

Speaker 2: Good.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was like these extraditions are literally history making,

Like these are huge, they are setting precedent for this

happening for something that doesn't happen, you know.

Speaker 2: Because they're tricky. Extraditions are very they are tricky.

Speaker 3: Frankly, a lot of Middle East countries do not have

the most positive view of the more western countries. So like,

you know, negotiating these kinds of things is a very

precarious situations is nobody wants to budge and nobody wants

to cooperate. Nobody wants to give anything which is understandable.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so you.

Speaker 3: Don't see extraditions like this coming out there is a

huge deal.

Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, dang so good.

Speaker 3: There were three trials total, beginning in March two thousand

and seven, were Mott Becall and who is benasa sister?

They both testified in person for the prosecution, but received

a treasure trove of threats from the courage community, of course,

so much so that Beckell actually chose to have her

identity obscured during her testimony. She testified behind like a

like a screen.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've agreen that before.

Speaker 3: Yeah, which again like I don't blame her, mean shit

is really fucking scary.

Speaker 2: So brave of her. Yes, the fact that she even

got out.

Speaker 3: There at all, that's testified just as a woman, let

alone like be a family member.

Speaker 2: Yes, to break my heart.

Speaker 3: H It seems to me that everybody who was charged

with something in this case got convicted.

Speaker 2: Okay, here's kind of a long list, so I'm gonna

run through that.

Speaker 1: Ye.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So Mamod Babekir Mahmoud, who is her father, yep, he

was convicted of murder. He received life in prison with

a minimum of twenty years. Few ari Aga Mahmoud, who

was the uncle he was also convicted of murder, received

life in prison with a minimum of twenty three years.

Mohammed Maried Hamak, who was convicted of murder, received life

in prison with a minimum of seventeen years. Stewan Hama,

convicted of conspiracy to pervert the court of justice, received

time served.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: Uh Mohammed Salei Ali, who is one of her cousins,

was convicted of murder, conspiracy to kidnap, threats to kill,

perverting the course of justice. He received life in prison

with a minimum of twenty two years. Omar Hussain was

convicted of murder, conspiracy to kidnap, threats to kill, perverting

the course of justice. He received life in prison with

a minimum of twenty one years, and Sana Amin, who

was a cousin, was convicted of perverting the course of

justice preventing the lawful burial of a body. He received

eight years, which was time served for him. Okay, I'd

already been in there that long.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 3: So, following the trials, the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigated

the handling of Benaza's case leading up to her murder.

To no one's surprise, they found the investigation was bullshit. Wow,

no shit.

Speaker 2: Why no one is surprised, but they did a really

shitty investigation. Of course.

Speaker 3: As a result, it was recommended warnings be issued and

two of the officers appear before.

Speaker 2: A disciplinary committee.

Speaker 3: Unfortunately, because like before, could even get off the ground

pretty much, the panel was abandoned after key witnesses declined

to participate. Right some people believed that this may have

been Ramot, who had already testified like multiple times for

the prosecution.

Speaker 2: An entire community is like threatening to kill you. Not

saying that it was everyone, but like.

Speaker 3: I mean, it was a lot, and that shit is scary. Yeah,

very scary. This guy just lost his girlfriend, like geez,

so who but that's unconfirmed, right, and whoever it was,

like that was like their key witness. They're like, well,

we don't really have any evidence to move forward with this,

so the panel was abandoned. So one of the officers

got the lowest disciplinary sanction that you can receive and

the other got promoted. That's disgusting. Yeah, caps be caps everywhere,

Man Book twelve. Ramot at that point was placed into

witness protection after testifying for the trials. Unfortunately, he never

truly recovered from like Banaza's murder or frankly the isolation

that comes with being in witness protection and like not

being able to be like part of a community or whatever. Right,

and she unfortunately committed suicide in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2: Poor guy. Yeah, I know, God, that's awful.

Speaker 3: Now since her death, Banaza's sister have sisters have both

become Two of her sisters have both become very vocal activists.

Speaker 2: Oh that's amazing.

Speaker 3: An article by Global Citizen from twenty twenty talks about

Paisy fighting for laws in Britain to outlaw child marriage. Now,

previously there was a loophole that allowed children aged sixteen

and seventeen to marry with parental consent. Yes, which I

believe we actually have something similar here. We do still

child marriage like at least thirty yeah.

Speaker 2: United States.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Working as an ambassador for Iranian and Kourdish women's

rights and working with other organizations like Girls Not Bride's

UK and backed by MP Pauline Latham, they were able

to get laws changed in England and Wales with the

Marriage and Civil Partnerships Act in twenty twenty two. What

this removed the exceptions for parental consent and raised the

legal age of consent to eighteen. And this is from

Girls Not Bride's quote, but the Act criminalizes forced marriage

in all circumstances before the age of eighteen, regardless of

whether coercion, violence, abuse or threats are used unquote.

Speaker 2: That's amazing, good for her. Huge.

Speaker 3: This is also strengthened existing laws in England and Wales.

Strengthened my existing laws in England and Wales, including the

two thousand and eight Forced Marriage Civil Protection Act, which

is used to protect victims or those at risk of

being forced into marriage, and if breached, is punishable by

up to five years in prison.

Speaker 2: Not enough.

Speaker 3: But the other piece that strengthened was the two thousand

and eight Forced Marriage Civil Protections Act, which can be

used to prevent a forced marriage taking place or protect

someone who has already been forced into a marriage.

Speaker 2: Okay, oh that's important too.

Speaker 3: So it basically allows for like injunctions to be placed

to get people out right and then good, Yeah, it

kind of it reads me like an order of protection almost. Yeah, absolutely,

but that's what I was going to say, specific to

like this marriage situation.

Speaker 2: Yes, which is good. This is all good, as I said.

Speaker 3: Buckle has also been speaking out publicly, although continuing.

Speaker 2: To obscure her identity. So she is also in witness protection,

but she chooses to do interviews and still be a

real activist while obscuring her identity and where she Yeah,

because she's still like a fearful of her life, but

which I think she should be. Yeah, yeah, oh that's

so sad.

Speaker 3: So in July to twenty twenty two, she released a

memoir of her abusive childhood and sister's murder called No

Safe Place murdered by our father. Bellall has been pushing

for proposed legislation called Banasa's Law that would make honor

based killings in aggravating factor during sentencing. So if you

have a murder and it happens to be will not

happens to be, but it is an our based killing,

that would be considered an aggravating factor, which would hold

higher penalties.

Speaker 2: That's an important distinction, I think.

Speaker 3: Yeah, because they do they I mean we have that

here too. Were Depending on what the crime is, there

can be certain aggravating factors. So for instance, if you

are committing a robbery, that's a robbery, right, But the

second you're holding a handgun, then it's aggravated. It's aggravated. Yeah,

that's like an aggravating factor that ups. That's it's a

really good example. That's smart.

Speaker 2: So it's like you get even more trouble, right good, Yeah,

I like to see it.

Speaker 3: So that's what they're trying to do. It also provides

a road or an avenue for guidance and trainings for

authorities to identify.

Speaker 2: And respond to honor based killings. Right I Step one,

don't walk into the house and.

Speaker 3: Be like oh well and I think this just comes

down to some of the like domestic violence reform and

that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: Where there has to be treated very delicately and in

a specific way.

Speaker 3: And yeah, you need training around these things to know happen.

Every situation is different too, right, And this is the

same thing with like mental illness, Absolutely mental illness training

going on so that things can be responded to appropriately

without this guy.

Speaker 2: Having a panic attic did not respond well to be

pointing a gun in the right. How can this be remedied? Yeah,

So it's it's trying to provide for that too. So

it's not people, you know, it's not like the wild

West out here doing whatever. That's amazing saying, but to

give people the actual training. Those women are incredible.

Speaker 3: It was added as an amendment to a criminal justice

bill that was ultimately rejected, saying that this type of

abuse abuses are already covered by existing law whatever, although

fighting for the law changes. Like I said, Buckleston or

witness productions. So I do think they are they are

both super brave, absolutely continuing to speak out in whatever

way that they can because they have this unique experience

of living like the day.

Speaker 2: To day of Yeah, their testimony is like so crucial.

Speaker 3: Yeah, living the day to day of traditional society that

fucking hates women.

Speaker 2: Yes, so that is s us So you picked honor killing.

I did that. I did. I did all the honest

I wasn't quite sure how to approach this topic in

a respectful, de mirror and mindful way. Yeah, you know,

I think because it's like, at the end of the day,

it's like it's a murder, right, you know, and we

should be able to talk about it. But there's like

a cultural element involved that is kind of like, oh am,

I allowed to touch this, Like how do I speak

about this sensitively? But at the end of the day,

it's really not like a nice it's not from some

like beautiful religion.

Speaker 3: Just got fucking talk about it, Like there's not I

don't necessarily think these aspects of abusing women and forcing

them into marriages and general mutilation and like honor killings

and shit like that, Like I don't think that is

a part of culture that should be celebrated or handled

with care because it's fucking terrible.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not. It's not from one source, it's

from like many different sources. I feel like people really

try to turn it into like, I totally get you

though you want to be very sensitive with like cultural things.

But I'm sorry this I agree with you. This is

a hard line for me that like, no, I totally

agree with you, totally agree. That's why I think it's

important to like clarify you know what I mean, Yes,

because yeah, yeah, I don't want to contribute to that

shit for sure, for sure. But yeah, don't don't kill people.

Don't kill your children. Yeah, don't sew their the genes together.

That's not nice. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, they're not

representative of a people or a religion. These honor killings,

so called honor killings, are the result of a patriarchal

society that creates extremism that is strong enough to compel

parents to kill their own children. Yeah. I find like

an interesting little thread to that that I'm probably not

smart enough to elaborate on, but like it's very similar

to like cult stuff where it's like, well how can

you you know, asking parents like well, how could you

you know, allow your child to marry this? Like old

Mormon man, It's like, well, it's kind of the same thing.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, part of it too. Is like

when you're comparing cults right, right, the people who are

born into it and raised into it, raised in it

generally will have a stronger belief because that's all they know. Yeah,

I know anything that when we are talking about these

traditional sects of society, right that now, like these a

lot of these are hundreds, if not thousands of years old,

you know what I'm saying, Like these are like things

that have been reinforced, reinforced, reinforced, reinforced. Yes, so I

it is surprising when you're talking about like parents with

their children and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: But at the same time, like when that is all

you know, that's just what you just go along with it,

like what you do, that's what everybody else does. I've

read some like really I read a really sad story recently.

I wanted to cover it, but luckily the girl who

was involved escaped, so like she's fine, which is great,

but like it was she it was her in laws

where she was I believe, West Indian, and she got

into this arranged marriage and her in laws and her

husband like just beat the shit out of her, like

every day it get They would rape her, they would

do all this stuff. And like she would try to

appeal to like the women of the house, like you know, please,

and they would just go along with it. Oh, stop

complaining about it. But this is just the way that

it is. And I'm like, that's the saddest thing, you know,

that you can't even get help from right right, Yeah,

strap in because this one's a bummer. This is the

case of the so called honor killing of Nor al Malechi. Okay. So,

Nor was an Iraqi I'm mayor, an Iraqi American woman.

She was born in probably nineteen eighty nine February eighteenth,

nineteen eighty nine. So she had lived in the Middle

East in Iraq until she was four, okay, and then

in like the mid nineties, they moved to Arizona, like

kind of near Phoenix. Okay. So her father, his name

was Fala Hassan al Malechi. They were from an area

of Iraq called Barsaka. So then later yep, they settled

in Glendale, which is like right near Phoenix. I've heard

of that, uha. She went to US High School, regular

public school. She ended up graduating and she went to

the local community college, Glendale Community College. So it's like

she was assimilating like in public, but in she was

still very much living this like patriarchal life. The expectation

for her was that she would clean, she would take

care of her siblings, she would cook, and and she

she was the eldest, I believe so, I think so,

But she had several younger siblings. And I'm just saying,

as like the eldest, like, no, take on that role

of like it's just a girl thing. So all of

the girl children take care of all of the boy children.

And I'm not saying like in every household, but in

this very very traditional household, yes, And even when that's

trying to be delicate here, even when that's a thing,

like if you live in a traditional household, and that's

a thing, it's not necessarily like a violent thing. It's

just the way it is in this particular one. It

was her friends like her, like more western friends would

say like if she resisted at all, or even if

anything happened, that wasn't her fault. If she were late,

if she would be beaten severely by her parents, very

severely beaten, gotcha. So she was more so she had

kind of assimilated herself, Like in public, she was like

I'm American, and at this point she actually didn't consider

herself to be Muslim. Okay, she was like, i am

Middle Eastern, I'm from Iraq, but I'm not part of

this religion. So she was that far in public where

it was like, I'm not really a part of this,

and she did not because she didn't consider herself Muslim.

She did not veil, and from the pictures that I've seen,

I mean, I know it's a different perspective, but she

wasn't dressing like you know, a hoe, which is her

right to do. But like it's not like she was

being crazy, but she certainly wasn't dressing to the standards

of her family, who expected her to dress very conservatively. Okay,

like she dressed like a little cute two thousands girl

going sure, I'm like probably like the rest of us.

It was a very two thousands times she wore some

like vests over shirts, you know, such a time. Why

were business casual? Why did we all do that? She

looked very pretty, but her father and her family, of course,

heavily disapproved, and he ended up finding like I think

she had I don't know if she had a Facebook

or if it was like somebody else's Facebook, and of course,

like you went over in your topic, when you're in

this family circle where you're all very traditional, everyone snitches

on you. So I'm betting some one of her you know,

family members saw the picture and showed it to her name, right,

because it's like, oh, if you all are not allowed

to be on Facebook, how did you see that? Yeah,

that's my question. What were you doing? The devil? The

men probably can right, Yeah, I don't like that. That

pisses me off. The women he's on their plane, Candy

crush pisses me off. But he saw a picture of

her like with boys, you know, not like an explicit picture,

but to him it was like, oh my god, very

very very upset. Yeah. So at this time she had

gotten a boyfriend and when this, like when this picture

was discovered, and like at this point in her life,

the abuse had gotten really really severe. Yeah, And so

her boyfriend's family was like, just come and stay with us. Yeah,

like that's Awesomely there they were so so nice. Yeah.

So you know, it is this like complicated thing, and

especially if you grew up in this environment, it's hard

to leave your family home. I'm sure, like, and this

this is the thing. It's all systemic, like making them

take care of their younger siblings and taking care of

the household. You get a sense of responsibility, and it's like, well,

you can't abandon your responsibility when it's the parents' responsibility, right.

So in this kind of like in between time where

she was trying to like distance herself from her family

and move in with her boyfriend's family, her dad did

that whole thing where he's like, hey, let's go back

to Iraq for a little bit, just for funzies. Don't

even worry about it. Don't even worry about it. The

details of this, like the legal details are unknown, but

it's possible that he had her married to someone okay,

and in Iraq, like.

Speaker 3: Before they left, or like while she was in high school.

Will he like arranged a marriage with somebody, right, So

he took her.

Speaker 2: To Iraq when she was trying to move out of

the house family vacation, but had a family vacation. It

wasn't uncommon for them to go back and forth and

poor a family and things like that, So she was like, oh, okay,

probably thought nothing of it. Yeah, And reports are that

he had gotten her married it's unclear as to whether

like a real marriage had taken place, or whether they

tried to, or whether it was like a legal thing

or you know what I mean, like obviously trying to

keep her there. But she went home. She was like, no,

I'm actually flying home. I'm not doing that good. So

she was like, even if I'm married, don't give a

fuck bye, right, She this poor thing. So she was

trying so hard to like have her own independence. You know,

she's living with her boyfriend's family, but she wants her

own space. So she in two thousand and nine moved

into her own apartment. Nice, which girl, boss, We love that. Yes,

But all the jobs she was working at she had,

like little retail jobs, her family members would show up

and cause so much trouble that they would get her fired.

Oh my god. So she ended up losing her her

jobs and she had no choice but to move back home. Yeah,

so she moved back home. This was in like the

beginning of two thousand and nine. By the summer of

two thousand and nine, she moved in with some like

friends of the family because this relationship with her other

boyfriend like hadn't worked out, So she had moved in

with some friends of the family, and it was like

they were like former friends of the family because they

were also I believe Iraqi, but they weren't as traditional,

so they were like, you guys are so like, we

can't hang out eyes, we can't hang out with you. Yeah, exactly,

And that's who she went to live with because of

course they would be understanding, right sure, And she ends

up there's a very handsome son in the family and

she's like, what's up, and he's like what's up? So

they start a very cute and sweet little relationship. Yeah,

she d up with like sort of the encouragement of

that family, which must have meant so much to her.

They were like, dude, file a restraining order. She tried to.

It seems like she got the paperwork but didn't finalize it. Okay,

so she was I feel like she was just trying

to move on, like, you know what with this other family.

Now I have this relationship, like we're just gonna yeah,

maybe they can just let go, you know.

Speaker 3: I think there is something to be said for like

abuse victims too, when it's you're in the process of

doing that and you're like, WHOA.

Speaker 2: I don't wanna I don't want the boat. I don't

wanna you know, star.

Speaker 3: Upot and like make things worse. So things are fine

right now.

Speaker 2: I'm just gonna yell up give it, which I don't

I understand, like that line of thinking, but like all

poor girl, right right. So later that year, on October

twentieth of two thousand and nine, she had gone with

her boyfriend's mother, who at that point they were very close,

like she was like a mother to her. You know,

Anne wasn't beating the shit out of her, so hey, right, upgrade,

We love that she had some I don't know if

she didn't speak English at all or was like a

little uncomfortable speaking English, but she went with her to

I believe the Arizona Department of Economic Security. She was like,

I'm gonna go with to translate. OK, I'm just gonna

help her out, which is like very very sweet of her.

So they were about to go in. They were outside

of the office. I think they were like, you know, rummagingis,

so let's make sure we have all our papers. Sure,

a car started to approach them, and before they could

look up and notice, they were both struck by a vehicle,

which then fled the scene. What yeah, okay, so al

Maleki the daughter, this was like a government office, right, Okay,

so that's a camera. I'm like okay there, yeah, there

were b cameras. Yeah, okay, I got it. So they

were obviously both again government office, so they probably just

like had ambulances on standby, like oh shit. So they

were immediately taken to the hospital. Her and the mother

in law, I'm lucky suffered. She didn't have a skull fracture,

but her she ended up having bleeding in the brain.

She ended up having partial paralyzation. Her boyfriend's mother had

several injuries that were non life threatening and then a

fractured pelvis, which sounds like it sucks.

Speaker 3: Again not necessarily life threatening, but it's a very long

red that's like a.

Speaker 2: Huge injury, like and she was not super young, so

it's like that's horribleis so she's in this hospital right

at this point, they didn't really know what had happened.

They were like, this must be like a random car,

you know, we're not really sure what the circumstances are,

and they're trying to perform surgery on her spine to

see the daughter, not the mother, to see like if

she's gonna be okay. And an interesting thing that they

did because like with hospitals, family comes to see you, right,

you know, maybe her mom or her sisters or whatever

would come to see her. They obscured her identity because

I feel like once the boyfriend and the family came

to see their mother who was injured, they were like, oh, yeah,

don't tell anybody that she's here, because this was absolutely

her family. They were like, this is not a hit

and run on the sidewalk, like get the hell out

of here. So they were like adult, so they were

able to obscure her identity so that nobody knew where

she was, which is really good. At this time her

father because newsflash, it was her dad. It was her dad.

So during this time, they weren't really interested in visiting

their daughter in the hospital. They were more interested in

getting Filet out of the country, of course. So he

drove to Mexico, to the city of Nogales and went

to London. Went to Mexico City, bought a flight, went

to London, which is pretty common. It's more common to

like fly into Europe and then travel to the Middle East. Right.

I don't know if it's easier. I'm sure like the customers,

I think it would. Yeah, I would saying I think

it would raise less red flags. That's flying directly. Oh yeah,

and he's trying to be sneaky too, which I understand.

Speaker 3: Which is also why he's flying out of Mexico and

flying out of that makes sense. I don't know, No,

I think it's just like if you were to see

like Iraq on a.

Speaker 2: Right, you know, which airports are already so racist. Every

time I go there, I'm like, why are you detaining

these people who are just here for a trip, like

please random chat? Right? Yeah, I'm like real random. They

all look like they're related, not random at all. Like

this is the thing is this Islamophobia is so dangerous

because it's systemic, you know, so it's a big issues,

big issues, big issues. So luckily, when Fullet flew to London,

they like looked at his passport and they were like,

m hmmm, so we know that it's you girl. We

know it's used to say by that time.

Speaker 3: I mean, London is not a short flight. It's like

it's a long flight. So I feel like until London,

by that time, they probably would have notified. Yeah, the

especially because I'm sure he still has connections. But yeah, yes,

you know he does. But luckily uh Uk Border was like,

oh hey, what's up. No, you're actually not good coming here,

and we're gonna just ship you right back to the

United States by n bye, that's fine.

Speaker 2: Uh Nor was still in the hospital at this time,

and this is I don't know how they couldn't have

caught this, but I'm not a doctor. She had like

a UTI at the same time, which normally not a

big deal, but when you're having like surgery and stuff,

is a really big deal. The infection could spread to

like your major organs because like shit's opened up. So

she had a UTI and it ended up going to

her heart. Oh my god, that is what caused her death. WHOA.

So on November second, she was declared like completely brain dead.

Speaker 3: So did she have a UTI as a result of

her stay in the hospital. I'm not sure, Okay, And no, no, no,

no no.

Speaker 2: That's one of those things because it's like I'm not

a medical professional obviously, but I know a lot of

medical professionals like you would when you're doing surgery, you

would give antibiotics. An antibiotic would have treated Yeah.

Speaker 3: But it depends on how long she was in and

how suit like the emergency the surgery was.

Speaker 2: That's very true.

Speaker 3: But also like I'm just thinking from the legal aspects,

like when you're charging somebody. Uh, you know, it's the

difference between like attempted murder and murderer, because if she

died as a result of something that happened exactly from the.

Speaker 2: Crash from the hicky beans.

Speaker 3: Yeah, but if it's like something that happened as a

result of being in the hospital, that it's like, okay,

well right, you know, while they may have been the

injuries may have been like mitigating factors.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the ultimate cause of death. Oh, I'm sure his lawyers. Yes,

I'm just again, this is the thing that no, but

it is very interesting, and that's I wonder if it

was like medical negligence or if it was just something

that happens, Like I'm I'm not one hundred percent sure,

but I do find that very interesting. Unfortunately, on November second,

that's when she was declared like one hundred percent like

she is not revivable because she was she had been

placed into a medical coma at the time, and that's

when she got the infection and her she had been

on life support and that was disconnected. Okay, so sad,

I know, I feel so bad. She was so pretty

and sweet. Yeah. So the the trial began on January fourth,

two thousand and eleven, so two years after. Okay. So

Phile's lawyers were like, hey, so here's the deal. Here's

the deal. Okay, he did mean to hit them with

his car, but he didn't mean to kill them, so

you actually like cannot charge it. You have to charge

him with second degree murder.

Speaker 3: Okay, that is definitely some legal maneuvering.

Speaker 2: It's some bit shit, is what it is. I don't like.

I mean, it's I'm not saying it's right. I'm just

saying it's a good stretch. It's shitty. But like, and

it was an effect that strategy, strategy, because he was

in fact charge convicted of second degree murder. And I

think a big part of that is for some reason,

they didn't want to go forward with like capital punishment,

They didn't want to give him the death penalty. They

just chose not to pursue it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so they were like, no, second degree murder is fine,

and the jury didn't. I mean, still carries a heavy penalty.

Speaker 2: Rights and it does still murder, and it does and

the I I think a big part of that is

they were unable to prove premeditation, not intent, but premeditation,

Like they almost wondered, which I think is stupid because

I'm like, how did he know where they were at? Yeah?

What were you doing there? But it's like they I think,

tried to allege like that he had seen them and

like been like ah, like ran his cars of them,

like it was like a crime of passion bullshit, which

I'm like, there's no way, how did he know where

they were? Shut up? So I disagree, but regardless of

what I think. April twenty eleventh, Filia was sentenced on

multiple accounts for murder. For the second Durgay murder of

his daughter, he was sentenced to sixteen years. For the

injuries that he inflicted upon her boyfriend's mother, he received

fifteen years, and then for like leaving the scene and

dipping out, he got like three and a half years, okay,

and they're all to be served consecutively. So all in

all he got like thirty four and a half years

in prison, yeah, which okay is at least something, and

had a little bit of a happy ending. He served

thirteen of those years before dying. Oh good, November tenth,

twenty twenty four, at age sixty three. Oh good, So

he is dead and in hell. There is a if

you want to learn more about this case, there is

a Facebook group that I'll link that was established by

Nor's friends that's kind of committed to honoring her legacy,

which is very yeah, very sweet. She really seemed like

such a sweet person. And forty eight hours had had

covered this, which is where I got a lot of

my information. Very cool. But he was the only he

was the only one that was charged, Like I feel

like this crime, Like I do know, there's not as

much information as there was like with yours, about like

this wholy community of snitches, But I'm like, for real,

how did he always know where she was? And like

her whole family, not like the little siblings obviously, but

everyone had been peaning the shit out of her. I'm like,

nobody else face charges like they couldn't connect this And I.

Speaker 3: Do think, like in my case, I do think it

was incredibly helpful that you had firsthand witnesses who are

willing to speak out, and that is not always the case.

And I'm not necessarily blaming those people because what fucking

situations intimidation, but like because I like, truthfully, I don't

know what I would do in the same situation. I

don't know, like you always hope, like, well, I would

say so it's like religion. If your mother and your

father and your siblings and everyone in your entire family,

who are the only people you're allowed to associate with,

and you have no connection to the outside world, including

limiting internet access, have no idea. This is all that

you know, and they're telling you every day if you

go into this western world you will die.

Speaker 2: You know what, what are you supposed to do? So

like the people who testify are like so incredibly courageous

and brave. All that breaks my heart.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yours is a great example that like,

like we said at the top, like this is not

an international problem, Like, yeah, it's happening here in Arizona, dude,

this is happening here too. Ye be aware happening.

Speaker 2: If you see something, say something, I don't have to

tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad.

It's a depression. Everybody not losing their job.

Speaker 3: Well, that has been our episode where I know it's

very heavy on, very heavy on, minus the visits from

our in house cat being acer. I'll have to see

if I can post that photo on our website.

Speaker 2: But yeah, so yeah, it's a heavy one. But it's

taking care of your mental health after this. Yeah, it's

an import I'm really glad that you picked it. Like

I was pretty nervous, Like, like I said, like to

cover it. I was like, I feel like I'm gonna

say something wrong, but I think it is important to cover.

But you gotta call out bullshit abuse. So I'm like,

I don't feel bad about it. Absolutely absolutely, I don't

feel I don't feel bad for you. I don't care

for murdering people. I'm glad that dude's dead, and I'm

glad the people from yours are in jail. Yeah, I

hope they're having a terrible time, all right with that?

Speaker 3: Our sounded editing is by Tiff Fulman. Our music is

by Jason Zakschewsky.

Speaker 2: Do you Enigma?

Speaker 3: This has been the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will

see you in two weeks. Goodbye along the Highway.

Speaker 2: I think this is the way that people washed over

with town. You were wearing some form, wearing nothing man,

this cat is running a muff up. Here is wrong

with you? What is wrong with you? Dude. I'm just

over here trying to be professional and to turn away

from the bike to pickle. What the fun? Who's trying

to scratch these I was trying. I fucking climb up

that I unhooked him, Pickle, Pickle. This is a serious episode, Pickle,

What the fuck? Any other episode that fine? Literally, this

one is so serious. He's out in the hallway looking

at ghosts. He could care less about what he's doing.

That cat thing like Jesus Christ looking at nothing.