Episode 223 - Immediately, Embezzlement

The white coat is the perfect camouflage for a killer. This week, we’re exploring the chilling world of medical murders, where the bedside manner is lethal and the "God Complex" is a literal diagnosis. We’re scrubbing in to find out why the person meant to save your life is sometimes the one taking it. One part medicine, two parts malice—no anesthesia required.

Research links below!

National Library of Medicine - "'Doctor' Marcel Petiot: Serial Murderer"
Britannica - "Marcel Petiot"
EBSCO - "Marcel Petiot"
Getty Images - "Marcel Petiot"
TIME - "FRANCE: Long Shot"
All That's Interesting - "Marcel Petiot May Be The Most Despicable Serial Killer Ever"

Murderpedia - "Dr. Morris Bolber"
Billy Penn at WHYY - "Pasta. Arsenic. Mass murder: South Philly's infamous 1930s poison ring"
Find a Grave - "Morris Bolber"
MSN - "A South Philly man was convicted in a prolific arsenic-murder ring on this week in Philly history"

Speaker 1: Yeah, their arrivals unspeakable. They it's worry about.

Speaker 2: Something.

Speaker 3: If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at

least I felt that.

Speaker 1: I could keep their skeletons.

Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Vicky,

I'm Rachel. We're back again, h to talk about loida late.

We're just laughing about connecting over old vines and old me.

We are children of the Internet. Yeah, we're ch online.

We were born in the Internet. You simply what is

it you were raised? I was raised in the dark.

I knew you would know this. I didn't see the

light until that was already a man. Yeah, that's us

with the Internet. Yeah, I remember when it wasn't even anything. Yeah.

But the memes that were like trending so choice back

in the day are very different from the things that

bear till now. It's kind of crazy a lot. We're

like cobsertist.

Speaker 3: I feel like kind of out of nowhere.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a lot of stuff, And I mean,

maybe it's just because I'm old, but I'm just like,

I don't know understand. We also, I'm sure had a

lot of things on the Internet that our parents were like, oh,

why are they watching this video about a badger? Like

you know what I mean? Yeah, And I was definitely

all over by no black sheep first, Oh, that was

my shit.

Speaker 3: If she don't know about badger, badger, she's too young

for you, bro.

Speaker 2: Yes. Anyway, so we heard that. We were before we

started recording. We were discussing old memes, the old minis,

the classics. Yeah, so good.

Speaker 3: You kids don't even know. You don't even know.

Speaker 2: We had to watch out. We needed to have one

podcast where we didn't start off talking about the weather.

Speaker 3: I know every time I'm like, wow, I wonder how

the weather was? The weather it's the weather report. Well

it's also like two months ago, you know what I mean.

It's because we're like cuede in Midwestern we have to

talk about the weather. It's in.

Speaker 2: It's fine. Well, if this is your first time listening

a special.

Speaker 3: Hey, welcome in. Thanks for choosing us as your Bad

Taste Crime podcast.

Speaker 2: We are going to head over to the newsroom.

Speaker 3: Let's go there watching us today we had fifty w.

Speaker 2: So this weekend news comes from the BBC. A Chinese

national name Zang Kikuon was arrested in Kenya in their

main airport, because he's been accused of attempting to smuggle

more than two thousand queen garden ants out what ants? Ants?

Speaker 3: Like a bug?

Speaker 2: Yeah, ew yeah. They found as he was going through security,

they found this ants and pants pile of ants. Well, look,

this is how it looks like. This is how they

were transporting them in, like little plastic capsules like phaped.

But their looks like.

Speaker 3: Those things that you get out of the like vending machine.

It has like a sticky hand in it, like the

little toy.

Speaker 2: Things, and they just have ant, like a single ant. Queen,

if I put a cord in a machine and an

ant came out, I would be very I would die.

I would be like, I don't want to be here anymore.

Give me a refund on this quarter a queen ant? No, no, no, no, no, no,

thank you, yes, Queen. So he's been arrested and they

say that they're accusing him of being linked to an

ant trafficking network that was broken up in Kenya of

last year. Apparently this is a real problem.

Speaker 3: Great, you're laughing at a very serious issue, Racil, the

ants smuggling, and I'm thinking about ants like aunts and uncles.

And I'm just thinking about a bunch of cute little

middle aged ladies being traffic through the airport.

Speaker 2: I don't want to be trafficked. We're both ants, right, doll,

we're both ants.

Speaker 3: We're like, oh, we're here for business.

Speaker 2: I'm an anti Yeah, I'm anti bickie. I'm a tia.

Oh well okay, so yeah, apparently last year there was

there were warnings that were being released about a growing

demand for garden ants for what collectors keep them as pets?

All Apparently in Europe and Asia, collectors keep them as pets.

Speaker 3: Have they heard of like a wimerner a? What a doggie?

Speaker 2: What did you say? What is that? It's a dog?

Is a type of dog? Yeah? I think you're making

that up. I dare you to spell that right on

the first time. Okay, so cheating, you are cheating.

Speaker 3: You can't spell it's this like gray guy? These like

kind of gray baldy dogs.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, would just assume those are greyhounds.

Speaker 3: Can you affirm into the microphone that that's a real dog?

Speaker 2: It is a real dog. But yeah, so they have

had this pattern of arresting and finding people. Wow, somebody

last year got a year in prison or a fine

of seventy seven hundred dollars for trying to smuggle thousands

of live queen ants out of the country. It was

the first of its kind case. There's some Yeah, this

is becoming a big, a big thing out of y Yeah.

Speaker 3: Because that I'm guessing that's where the ants like are from.

Speaker 2: That's so interesting. Yeah, because I would imagine if they

were trying to get them like through Kenya right like

in and out right right right that they would probably

get them on the way in. That's what I was

That's what I'm assuming too.

Speaker 3: I think you're right, that's gross. Can you imagine like

they're in prison and like the wardens like catching them,

like trying to like scoop bugs in the cups, like

I could sell I don't know bugs.

Speaker 2: So yeah, so beware. It's it's It says they're very

popular in the exotic pet network. So I wonder if

it's this specific type of ants. Yeah, I wonder.

Speaker 3: Why like not.

Speaker 2: To be Maybe they're super deadly. But that's the only

reason I can think of is that they're super deadly.

But then I'm like, I don't want a super deadly

tiny thing in my house.

Speaker 3: I mean, those capsules are pretty decent size. And I

know queen ants are like bigger, but maybe they're like

really big ants, you know, maybe that's the appeal.

Speaker 2: I don't know.

Speaker 3: If you're a bug smuggler, call in and tell us.

Speaker 2: I don't want to know. I hate bugs. I hate bugs.

I don't want all right, we're we're gonna move on

to Netflix and kill which is because of HBO and

kill nice. We're talking about Neighbors the TV Oh yeah, yeah,

we have. We might have talked about this. We have,

but we have not talked about it on the show.

I guess and I am as you know, of course

this TV show. I think we might have actually talked

about it the last time we recorded with our it

guy aj. I believe we did. And it is just

it's so this is not to be confused with the

Neighbors movie.

Speaker 3: Right right right right dum Dave Franco, Yes, not that

dank seriod.

Speaker 2: Not only is it a sire? Do we talk? Do

we talk about this on the show already? I think

we did?

Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'm just like an episode of it. All

the episodes are different. I want to come back and

talk about it again because you should you know what

I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 2: I think we did talk about this, and we're going

to talk about it again because I finished watching the

series and it's an A twenty four series. Now that

I know that we've talked about this, I'm not going

to go too far into it. But the last couple

of episodes, so let me see.

Speaker 3: It looks so good. I haven't had the chance yet.

Speaker 2: So I think the last time that we talked about it,

there had only been like two or three episodes out

the last three, well, the last one is actually still

not out, okay, but the next two had to do

with with these neighbors who were friends, and then one

of them, one neighbor is this white guy and the

other neighbor is this black couple. And he's saying they

always had this very joking friendship. They were friends for

like seven or eight years. They would make these like

racial jokes that he was pretty fine with, and then

he decided to make one back where he like gave

gave them like stupid a prop white privilege card, like

here like take my white privilege, and they got upset

and this is what he alleges, and then all of

a sudden, it became this whole thing between the neighbors

and them, the cameras and them watching and trying to

repair this relationship. And even in the thing, he's like

buying them food to apologize. It's a whole thing. And

on the other side in Texas, in San Antonio, there's

this woman who built holds this eight foot concrete wall

around her property. Her neighbor across the street is like,

it's a fucking eyesore, this compound. And well, he turns

out to be the guy who introduced the it's like

standard ground in Texas.

Speaker 3: I forget the name. Somebody told me the name of it,

and I forget when you can shoot people.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got a name. But protect your property to

eliminate the duty to retreat, essentially Christ, so i'm your

own properties. I would die. This is the guy who's

upset about the wall, Christ, which I think is hilarious

because I like, this seems like exactly like what you would.

Speaker 3: Write, aren't you all about home defense?

Speaker 2: Yeah? And if it looks like a Mexican cartel compounds right,

because it's like it looks like a Mexican automatically this

guy the episode after that are these two guys who

are in a Halloween competition. What Halloween decoration that is?

So this one hit home to me. Yeah, I was

gonna say you in the future because is I, as

many of you know, have been in like the haunted

house industry for a long time. I actedly for like

nine years. I am still like plugged into that. Yeah,

heavily right, It's awesome.

Speaker 3: So like these people are exactly the I'm like, I

know these people.

Speaker 2: I know these people, and this is a New Jersey.

So these guys become friends and then they start doing

this Halloween display and then it's like, you stole my idea.

He's just mad because he can't afford these props and

he has to make his own props and it becomes

this whole thing and.

Speaker 3: We cannot have nerd in fighting. We're in this together.

It's us against the cool people. Just this show. I

am obsessed with this show because little these little like

slice of life like I love it things.

Speaker 2: But this is very much like everyday Dispusa people. I'm

sure there are people around where we are now that

are with other people.

Speaker 3: I live next door to them.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens every day, all day all across the world.

It's just very interesting to me. Excuse me, So anyway,

I'm bringing it up again. That means you have to

check it out.

Speaker 3: It's like very like in your wheelhouse.

Speaker 1: It is.

Speaker 3: Its slice of life and weird stuff and Halloween.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's just the one episode, but the rest

of them just people are they're all about Halloween. People,

They're all freaks. No, all right, we are going to

move on to our episode. This is that part of

the show where we say kids that may not be

appropriate for all listeners, may not. We're talking about murder.

Speaker 3: Yeah, there's the murder. I'm going to touch on a

little bit of domestic violence, not too bad, but I

will be mentioning it. I think that's probably about it.

Speaker 2: Okay, bad and murder. Right, well, we're going to jump in.

I decided to do I don't remember. I honestly don't

remember how you came across us. But we are doing

an old timey ooo sort of doctor my fave. This

a person by the name of Marcel Pettio. This is

like doctor Murder. This is doctor Murder. Okay, yeah, we're

talking about doctor Murders. Sorry I didn't start off with

that we're talking about doctors who murder people, doctors who

kill This happens, yes, especially honestly, especially a lot back

in the olden days.

Speaker 3: Well, it was a lot easier to get away with

because people would die from a stiff breeze and you're like,

I didn't kill that guy.

Speaker 2: The knife sticking out of him is totally that happened.

And they didn't have forensics, so it was a lot

harder to like detect right things right and do autopsies

to be like, actually this guy was like poisoned.

Speaker 3: And who was doing the autopsy the doctor doctor, so

he was like, he's fine.

Speaker 2: So we're gonna talk about some doctor murders today, let's

do it. I'm starting with Marcel Petio. He was born

on January seventeenth, in eighteen eighty seven in North France.

Is that correct?

Speaker 3: Think, simy, these are my favorites.

Speaker 2: His teenage had some like petty crime that the clean

aspects of it. Oh, this isn't north central France, Okay?

Did I say that?

Speaker 3: He said something France?

Speaker 2: Okay, north central France. So there's a lot of friends

in here, so just bear with me. Yes, So yeah,

he was doing some petty crime in his like okay,

teenage yeers, Like when he robbed a postbox and he

was charged at one point with damaged to public property

and theft. Okay, but when he made it to court,

the judge requested that he undergo a psychiatric evaluation which

showed that he had a mental illness, and the charges

were dropped. Okay. Now I want to say, as I

was doing research for this, they I saw in a

lot of places where they are talking about him having

a mental illness and doesn't necessarily specify.

Speaker 3: No, that does throw a wide net.

Speaker 2: It does throw.

Speaker 3: Are we talking early ADYHD or are we talking just

associated the identity disorder?

Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't think it's and I mean even back then,

it could have been like he was a little disagreeable,

defiant or disorder. Yeah, right right, so just keep that

in mind. Right, But there was something that they were like,

there was something up, someone's ringing their bell? Yes, yeah,

so this is going to be sort of a pattern

with him. And he was incredibly intelligent, like he was

a very intelligent kid. Cool, but he was just very

rebellious and he did a lot of the petty crime

stuff like stealing, which was something that followed him from

his teenage years into his adult years. Zeptomedia Yep. He

was expelled multiple times from various schools, resulting in a

second mental illness diagnosis. Whoops. But he did eventually finish

school in Paris in nineteen fifteen. Nice good job. The

following year, Petio volunteered for the French army in World

War One soccer in January nineteen sixteen. But after being

wounded and during the war and showing additional signs of

having some sort of like mental breakdown. Oh no, they

talk a lot about he was out and he had

this like full mental breakdown while in war. He he

gets sent to like all of these like military homes, okay,

to rest like rest homes, okay, to recover, But his

past kleptomania came calling and he continued to steal, like

these rest homes have some pretty nice stuff, army blankets,

morpheme wallets, photographs, letters, and other various photographs for what

cleptomania do, It doesn't matter, doesn't matter for what. And

he did get some jail time.

Speaker 3: For Yeah, you're not supposed to take things.

Speaker 2: And again, like while he was in jail, Patio was

again diagnosed with various mental illnesses okay by another psychiatrist,

but he was still returned to the front after this.

Oh yeah, get back to work. Yeah. Three weeks later,

Petio allegedly injured his foot with a grenade, although I

have actually seen in a few places that he was like,

turns out he shot himself in the foot, right, right,

right right, that's literally what I was going to do

on purpose, on accident. I think he wanted to go home.

Speaker 3: I probably probably it's like, actually the ship blows, but yeah,

they're like, no, he definitely shot himself on purpose, so

not an uncommon practice.

Speaker 2: Eventually he was discharged. They'll go home, and he ended

up receiving a disability pension. Okay, cool choice, But what

is he to do after the war steal? He basically

like he hadn't really received any training after he finished school.

He had pretty much gone from school into the military. Right,

that was my plan, right, Well, there was an accelerated

education program that was made for war veterans, and Petio joined,

becoming an intern at a mental hospital. Hmm, exactly. The reaction.

That's what a choice after having been recommended to go

to one for so many times.

Speaker 3: He was like, yeah, I'll go, and they were like,

that's not quite what weird. Yeah, right, you're on the

wrong side of the glass, buddy.

Speaker 2: So he finishes school and he receives his medical degree

in December nineteen twenty one. And it's worth mentioning that

at this point in like by this time, Pettio had

developed an addiction to narcotics.

Speaker 3: Good great, great, love that doing good.

Speaker 2: And it's also reported that he was not necessarily the

most above board doctor. I was, well, he was like

still doing some petty theft things, but he was also

selling narcotics, over prescribing narcotics. And they talk a lot

about him performing illegal abortions. He's for the streets. Yeah,

so that's like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: I love the illegal abortions, but everything else don't do

that I do, except you have to make sure safe.

Speaker 2: You have to make sure you're being safe. But also

at the time, there were a lot of illegal abortions

happening that were forced by men who had mistresses or

you know, didn't want their wives, you know what I mean.

So I'm like, yes and no.

Speaker 3: That's the thing whenever you read like old timey stories

about abortionists, whenever it's like the back alley abortionist who's

like a lady, who's like a midwife.

Speaker 2: It's always like, that's good doing it for the women.

They're doing it for the fucking men.

Speaker 1: You know.

Speaker 2: That is an important distinction. Absolutely, So it's like okay,

but yeah, yeah, don't get two joys on him. Okay. So,

PEO's first victim, although it was never proven, was likely

a woman named Louise Delavaux. She had the two had

been having an affair and she was the daughter of

one of his patients, and not long after their affair started,

Delavo disappeared. In nineteen twenty six, he stole her. Police

launched an investigation and they started receiving information from the

neighbors saying that they had seen Peto putting a large

trunk large enough to hold a body, damn it, into

his automobile. But they investigated these claims and they didn't

find any evidence to link him to the crime because

now it's not in there. They ended up saying that

Delivo was a runaway, of course, and dropped the investigation.

But that is again it was not proven. She was

never seen again, I'm assuming, but that is allegedly his

first victim, so sad soar For this, Peteo decided to

try his hand up politics and ran for the mayor

of Villanueve Sir Jan and one, what, oh my god,

this is the funniest part of the story. Tell me

girl what let's not forget he has this like petty

theft back ground. Yeah, and he almost immediately began embuzzling

funds from the town, which the townsfolk were not very

thrilled with.

Speaker 1: Love.

Speaker 2: He just gets into this position of power and is like,

immediately embezzlement. You just can't help them, No, he really cannot.

He really cannot. So they were not townsfolk were not

thrilled about that and addiction. But he ends up getting

suspended as they're in August nineteen thirty one and eventually resigns. Yeah,

but it wasn't all bad because during his time as mayor,

Pettio had married the daughter of a wealthy landowner in

Butcher named Georgette Lebay. Oh pretty and the Josette Lebee,

and the two had a son named Gerhard Gerhard. Now,

five weeks after his suspension from being mayor, okay, Petio

was elected to a city council seat girl, What the hell?

Speaker 3: Why do they keep giving him jobs? Well, he lost

his seat after he was accused of stealing electricity. Right,

They're like, you're literally stealing electricity from the town. Please

get off the city count Yeah, it's literally.

Speaker 2: See this is why I'm like it's possible that the

mental illness he had was kleptomania, Like that could be it,

because he literally is like, I don't even care what

it is. Yeah, I'm gonna steal this. There's very like.

Speaker 3: Poor impulse control. Yeah that I'm seeing where it's like,

you're getting into this really good position. You know, you've

been kind of scrapping.

Speaker 2: They got elected to city council after that's crazy being

ousted as the mayor because it's so fun. So what

that was money? Okay, that's a different thing.

Speaker 3: They're like, don't steal any money. And he's like okay,

And then he goes to the city council meeting. Is

he's my electricity sucks. They're like, let's go check it out. Actually,

this isn't yours. Put that electricity back.

Speaker 2: He's like, oh oh god. Yeah. So so yeah, so

he's gets accused of sealing electricity. Petio decides to leave

Yon and relocates to Paris, where he wants to continue

practicing medicine. Okay, while he was there, he managed to

get counterfeit credentials and really like he build up his practice.

He honestly gets a pretty good reputation. Okay, but lest

we forget, he's still on the side performing illegal abortions

and he's like over prescribing narcotics, selling narcotics on the side,

he's a shady dact. When he goes to Paris, there

is also some portion of time that he spends in

an institution a bit for his kleptomania. Okay, so that's

why I'm like, I was probably keptomania the whole time,

but I don't even honestly know. Yeah, a lot of

what that goes back to.

Speaker 3: That's interesting, Like I wonder what they would prescribing with today,

because the lack of impulse could be it well.

Speaker 2: Right and call me in. So yeah, so he does

spend a little time in an institution. So by this

time it was nineteen forties France. World War two had

started the year prior, and Germany had already defeated and

occupied France. So now we are in German occupied France

and World War Two. Okay, yes, they are drafting quote

unquote drafting French citizens for for slabor, and Penio decides

to take the opportunity to possibly do the only good

thing in his life, wow, which was providing fake medical

disability certificates to people who had been drafted by German

This is literally the only thing that I'm like.

Speaker 3: Oh, well, I mean, I'm sure he didn't do it

for free. No, probably not, Like he's tried to make nothing.

It maint nothing, right, that is, that is a nice

thing to.

Speaker 2: Do, so he does. He was also he was also

this is the only reason that I'm like, maybe he

it was a good thing because he was also treating

people who were coming back from the force labor drafting.

He came back like rife with like a free disease.

So he's treating them as they come back. That's nice.

It's not the only thing he does.

Speaker 3: Okay, he was like, I did skim the hippocratic oath

just a little bit.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So his practice of over prescribing narcotics finally caught up

with him as well when Pettio was convicted and find

twenty four hundred francs for it. Yes, had the charge

gone to trial, there were two drug addicts who were

prepared to testify against him, okay, but they mysteriously disappeared

before the trial began. What happened, No one knows, just disappeared.

This guy is so he never went to trial. He

just got fined. Yeah, So this from uh from all

that's interesting quote for Petio, Nazi occupied France provided the

perfect backdrop in which he could commit his crimes. Indeed,

the country stood divided primarily by Nazi sympathizer sympathizers and

those actively trying to overthrow or outrun the Gestapo. Peteo

capitalized on the state of fear, taking advantage of the

latter quote. Right, So Peteo starts telling people that he

is part of the French Resistance, which was sort of

this move he did to get public trust to.

Speaker 3: Be like, which, dude, you could have just joined the

French Resistance.

Speaker 2: I know could have would have been happy to have you.

He didn't do that, but he told people he did.

But this allowed him to continue his narcotic sales but

also conceal like the horrible shit that's about to come.

So he would use the code name doctor Eugene and

would claim that he had the means to smuggle out

people who were wanted by the Germans out of France.

We're talking about Jewish people, We're talking about people who

are part of the French resistance. We're talking about criminals.

Like he was like, I have a way out if

you pay me twenty five thousand francs that I can

arrange transport through South America out of France. What a

kind gesture, you. Yeah, a lot of the times through Argentina,

which was pretty common, and there was some there was

another country they mentioned, but it was mostly through Argentina.

So he was like, I can do this. Come to

my house here, yeah, for his home becomes a bit

of this like safe house for resistance fighters and other

criminals that were trying to hide out, which sounds really great, noble,

until you know that. So, working with three other accomplices

or handlers, they called them Raoul Fourier, Edmund Pintard and

Rene Gustave Naisonda, they would direct Jews, resistance fighters and

others who were attempting to flee the country to doctor Eugene.

But before they he could get them out, he would

say the Argentine government requires everybody into the coming into

the country to be inoculated from disease yep. But that

wasn't a concern because he was done doctor that ranges

up the a Yeah, let me inoculate you.

Speaker 3: Yeah, may feel a little sleepy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, So he would inoculate the people, but when he

provided the injections, he was actually injecting people with cyanide yep.

And then he would rob them of all their valuables

and money and dispose of the bodies.

Speaker 3: It's disgusting, yeah, Yeah, and a pretty far leap from

just like dealing a little dealing a little on the

side and you know, stealing some You wonder if, like

the these disappearances that are alleged to have been perpetrated

by him, right, the girlfriend that he was like having

affair with, right, the two guys that were going to

testify him.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like those all could have been test runs, right,

Like absolutely absolutely, because also these are just the ones

that they know about, right, So there is it is

entirely possible there's a ton that they don't know about, yeah,

or that he started much earlier.

Speaker 3: Yeah, he's probably been doing this for a long time.

It's disgusting.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So initially Pettio was just dumping the bodies of

the victims into the sin, which was bad book for

future Olympias, sure, because they had to swim in that

during the French Olympics. As the sin is disgusted, I know,

I'm like, oh, here's a story of them. He literally,

I mean, I mean at least ten probably, Like that's

I mean, there was that's a yeah, quite a few

that he don't yelped into this end. Yeah, you know,

they never got pulled out. Nope. So again, though France

was occupied by Nazi Germany, there's this like French Gestapo

presence that's increasing. So like walking the bodies down to

the river where he's starting to become very very risky.

Of course, so at some point Petio switched to using

quicklime to disintegrate the corpses, and word about this doctor

who was like helping people escape started making its way

around to the Gestapo, who of course assumed that Petio

was acting on behalf of the resistance. So now the

Gestapo is like, who is this guy that's you know,

there's all these people that I know, this is crazy.

They're like, there's all these people that are escaping France,

and we've got the name of this doctor Eugene, Like,

who is this guy who's helping people escape, thinking that

he's working for the French Resistence even though it's front,

So they wanted to find out what was going on.

The French guest gets a well, they force a prisoner,

his name was Yvonne Dreyfus, to get in touch with

this underground network and be a mole. Basically, okay, okay,

they say, you are a prisoner, go into this and

see what's going on and report back to us. Yeah,

but unfortunately Yvonne. Unfortunately for yvon and the Gestapo, I

guess uh, he just vanished into thin air. Now, later

an informant managed to get into the network and feed

information to the Gestapo, which led them to arresting the

three accomplices for your Pintard and naison. Day. They get arrested,

they are tortured until they revealed that doctor Eugene was

in fact Marcel Petio. Huh. Okay, So two of the

three accomplices spent eight months in prison for helping Jews escape,

and then they continue to torture the men to get

additional information. About like other zsistance members, but.

Speaker 3: The joke was on them because they weren't actually part

of the resistance, Like, I really don't know anything. Yeah,

so they they're getting tortured though the Nazis, but I

can't be said. It's kind of a moral conundrum because yeah,

the cops got them.

Speaker 2: Oh they're not the cops, they're the Nazis, right, and

they're like, give us information about the resistance. They're like,

but we're not actually part of the result or not

at stop lying. Yeah. So by the time they decided

to go and find Pettio, he has already fled to

He had a couple of practices around Paris. He flees

to this other practice in a different part of France

that was kind of near the Arcti Triumph, Like it's

kind of in that area. Yep, they don't know that though.

There's like, well, he's not here anymore, so he dipped.

He continues his ruse out of his twenty one rule

lesseur location, although things become significantly more complicated without the

support of his accomplices. Right, moving the bodies of those

that he had tricked and killed was like the piece

that he was really having issue. He did not have

any issue like getting people to come to him. I'm

sure he didn't, So instead of transporting the bodies elsewhere,

he instead went back to trying to dispose of them

in his house. So, for some reason, Pettio decided to

leave town for a few days in March of nineteen

forty four road trip. While he was gone, the neighbors

noticed that there is this foul smell coming from the

house and that there's huge plumes of like weird, noxious

smoke coming out of the chimney.

Speaker 3: Strange, they thought so too, so they called. They also were.

Speaker 2: Like, we wondered if the house is on fire? Yeah,

right right, because it was just like all the smoke.

They were like, the house might be on fire. So

they call the authorities, who also called the fireman to

come and aid. Think because they were they didn't know

if the house them for or not. When they go

to go into the house, they see that there's a

note on the door that said, uh, doctor Pettio is

out of town and that he was going to be

back in a few days. They end up getting in

touch with him, being like, hey, we're here at your

house and there's some issues, and they think we think

your house might be on fire. He was like, don't

go in the house until I get there. Hmm. He's like,

don't don't go into the house until I return. So

they wait an hour why and they're like, Okay, we're

going to go in. Yeah. Like by this time, they're

like getting really nervous. Okay, we're going to go in.

So they go in and, in an incredibly rare win

for the Gestapo, I would say the one and only,

they not only find a huge fire in the coal stove,

but bodies literally all over his home. Oh my god.

This again from all That's interesting quote. What they found

was unlike anything they'd ever seen. Bodies, not even whole bodies,

just parts of bodies were strewn around the house, somewhere

in canvas, sacks or suitcases. The garage had vats of quicklime,

an insiderator filled with limbs and bones. All told, they

found at least ten corpses in the house, though none

of them were still intact. Oh my god. So they

walk into this scene ew and he meanwhile, this is why,

it's like, why did you leave? He's like, I'm fucking

off on vacation, idiot. I'll clean this up when I get.

Speaker 3: Home, like whatever, He's like, it's actually kind of stinky

in here. I think I'll go to the seaside for

a couple of days. I mean maybe, Like also what

he says, a little stupid.

Speaker 2: He's a little strange. He's a little strange. So not

long after they get into the house, Pettio arrives at

the house. He's like hey, yeah, and he's trying to explain,

like why there are multitudes pol you see bodies in

his house. He says, well, well, actually I'm a member

of the resistance, and all of these bodies are Germans

and Nazis that I've killed, like Nazis and French traders.

Like there's a ton of French traders in here. That's

pretty smart, okay, it is. It was plausible enough that

they were like, we're going to continue to investigate, but

we're not going to rest you.

Speaker 3: Right, hello, that's a lot.

Speaker 2: Yeah. They were like, I.

Speaker 3: Mean, either everyone in France is real stupid or he's

a big manipulator. Now to be fair, about as fair

as I can be. H. They did continue to investigate.

It's not like they were like, oh yeah, true, surely

you find it a bunch of like hands and feet

in the house and you're like, well, I guess i'll.

Speaker 2: See you next week. Yeah, we'll give you a call.

It was just plausible enough that they're like, so simmy.

So they continue to investigate, but they're like, we're not

going to arrest you right this second, which was a

fucking mistake, but they didn't know that at the time,

so they continue this investigation. It ends up leading them

to additional accomplices, including Pettio's brother Maurice, a shopkeeper, his

wife Georgia, and his daughter in law, and a parent

mistress uh oh Lenau are now ew yeah girl, and

a bicycle dealer named Albert Newhouse. A bicycle dealer that's

so cute. He's an accomplish. It's a cute job.

Speaker 3: Okay, that guy that's like.

Speaker 2: So that's such a cute way to put it. Yeah,

bicycle dealer in France, dealer which is like even more idyllic. Yeah,

cruising dunsascent. So they find these accomplices, they essentially all

point to Pettio as being the murderer and are like,

actually they were not Nazis, they were regular people, And

they decide now to arrest him, right right, But when

they arrived at his home, he was already gone. Duh.

So they started searching for him, but the investigation gets

a slight delay thanks to the invasion of Normandy. Yeah

it'd be like that. But after a month of being

on the run, Pettio was arrested in Paris at a

train station in February of nineteen forty four and charged

with murder Nice. He was sent to Lessante prison, where

he continued to claim innocence, saying he had only killed

the enemies of France. Yeah, yeah, these were all traders

and Nazis, I swear God, what a dick. When the police,

they did like investigate his ties to the resistance, because

he kept being like, I work for these groups like

blah blah, blah blah. They discovered that most people had

not heard of him, and the groups that he was

referencing didn't actually exist. He was just making up names

of these groups. Yeah you know, I'm part of the

Flying Ducks. Yes, yeah, don't you know them down on

Fourth Street?

Speaker 3: Yeah they're just real niche. Yeah you probably have never

heard of them. Their early stuffing is really good.

Speaker 2: So all in all, Pettio was charged with one hundred

and thirty five criminal charges, including twenty seven countries murder

for profit. They estimated that Petio had acquired as much

as two hundred million francs during this whole the whole thing. Yeah.

During the course of the trial, Petio did admit to

murdering nineteen of the twenty seven victims that he was

on trial for, but he again was like continuing to

claim that they were Nazi Germans or traders to France,

although authorities estimate that he killed upward of sixty people. Yeah,

this is why I'm like, we don't really know like

when this started, if these were his.

Speaker 3: First one doing this in other places.

Speaker 2: Ye, yeah, yeah, because it's not like he was going

through legitimate medical right thing.

Speaker 3: And obviously the people who were trying to run were

trying to keep it secret so it would be hard

to find wreck.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't hear from them. It was like, well,

they must have made it right, and it's like, well.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Ultimately, he was convicted of the twenty six murders and

was sentenced to death by beheading. Good because France so

no head. His death was delayed by a few days

after there was an issue with the release mechanism of

the guillotine. You need that. It was like that is important. Again,

it's not going to do the choppin.

Speaker 3: It's not gonna do the one job and needs to do.

You would want judges drop.

Speaker 2: But on May fifth, nineteen forty six, Petio was beheaded

by guillotine in a very French death sentence. Sweete, And

that is the story of Marcel Petio in World War two.

Murder Doctor that didn't actually have anything to do with

nazis what a dick just happened to be at during

World War two. Fuck that dude.

Speaker 3: Yeah, when you were texting me about topics, you referred

to this one as doctor Murder, which really made me.

Speaker 2: My name is doctor murder. That's what it sounds like,

a B level like comic book villain. Look out, it's

doctor murder. Is defying, is hippocratic oath? Oh no, it's

doctor murder. Really me up. I've been really do this

time murder murder what it can't be? Tune in next

time to find out.

Speaker 3: I've literally been doing that all week, like it's been

making me laugh so much. Initially, I figured I'd delve

into the wide and weird world of modern day medical murders,

perhaps an angel of death or a doctor serial killer. Right,

what I stumbled upon instead is one of the weirdest

cases I've ever heard of.

Speaker 2: Okay, love that. That's having to.

Speaker 3: Fact check as I read, because so much of this

sounds like grade A blowney.

Speaker 2: Okay, this is what.

Speaker 3: This is one of those where at the end you're

gonna be like, you would pick this case. This is

a Rachel Last case. It sounds like something that I

would pick.

Speaker 2: You're gonna love it. You're gonna love it.

Speaker 3: Hold on to your spaghetti because we are covering the

case of the Philadelphia poison ring.

Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, this.

Speaker 3: Case takes us, of course too, of Philadelphia, Land of Cream,

cheese and other stuff.

Speaker 2: But we're going to I love I Love, I Love Philly.

I gotta say I've spent quite a bit of time there.

I want to go there.

Speaker 3: It looks like such a cool place.

Speaker 2: Yeah it is really cool. Yeah, it's really cool, so

much cool stuff to do.

Speaker 3: I keep seeing those like videos on TikTok where I'm like,

that looks so fun. Where is it. It's like, oh,

it's halfway across the country from don't show me that

I don't live there. Yeah, there looks like there's so

much fun stuff to do.

Speaker 2: There is great, there is, and it's like within train

distance like New York or you know, any of those places,

which is great. Yeah.

Speaker 3: I want to go there and sample their cream cheese.

Speaker 2: That's what I want to do.

Speaker 3: Okay, But so we're in Philadelphia, but we're going all

the way back in time to the nineteen thirties. Oh, Ken,

of course our cases dovetail, always, always, always crazy. Now.

During this time, the city of Brotherly Love was going

through a very Italian time in its life. In fact,

the Italian population was over one hundred and fifty thousand people,

which for the time was like ginormous. Oh sure, it's

way more now, but it was like it had more

than doubled in the past twenty years. There was a

lot of Italian immigration. Italians were coming and settling in

the city.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, even still like Philly is a

huge melting pot of all sorts of absolutely different people.

Speaker 3: I'm sure there's like there's still they have a very

strong like Italian background, like, as you said, lots of

other cultures and stuff too. But I've heard like the

Italian food.

Speaker 2: There is killer, so killer.

Speaker 3: Yeah. At the time, though it wasn't all sunshine and spaghetti.

Of course, not many of these Italian immigrants faced extreme

poverty around this time. Many of them had trouble adjusting

to the American ways of life, maybe not speaking English

super well, unable to find work or purpose. The part

of this community that seemed to suffer in silence was,

of course the women. Imagine being a housewife, Your Italian

dad probably made you marry this guy you probably didn't

know what like, and then he has the bright idea

to move to America away from all of your family

and friends. You don't speak the language, duelingo is totally

not a thing yet, and you can't find decent mozzarella

literally anywhere.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was definitely I mean, you still get

this now, but like I do feel like that was

very much like a machismo kind of culture. Absolutely for

a backdrop for that.

Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it was very like the women were expected

to just kind of shut up and bear it. Yes,

you know, the men could go out and find work.

The women really had to stay in like domestic circles.

Some of them did wrik, but like it was very different. Meanwhile,

your asshole husband is doing asshole things, maybe beating you,

perhaps maybe spending all your money. You have no one

to turn to for advice, and the bill collectors keep calling.

Speaker 2: Okay, this is.

Speaker 3: Where Herman and Paul Petrillo stepped in. Okay, this pair

of brothers. The last name is Petrillo, Petrillo. Okay, like

Sophia Petrillo.

Speaker 2: Who's that, Sophia Petrillo. Not I am ashamed of you?

Is that she's she's uh Dorothy's mom. I'm the Golden Girls.

Speaker 3: Oh, Sophia, Sophia Petrillo. Yeah, oh I didn't even get that. Wow,

that's shame. But I say all of the Golden Girls

a thousand times and my brain was just like, what

the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 2: When I was a girl. It's Sicily, Okay, picture it.

Speaker 3: Thank you for being a friend. Nineteen thirty Patrillo. Maybe

this was her ancestors. Could be could be because they

were They weren't Sicilian, but they were Italian. Her Paul,

these two brothers, they seem like they were sent from

Italian heaven itself to these poor women. They spoke fluent Italian,

of course, and would comfort these ladies promising to help fix.

Speaker 2: All their problems. Sounds good.

Speaker 3: And when you're in a new country having financial difficulties,

a good place to start is getting your insurance all

figured out. Okay, let's make sure that if something happens,

you know, your husband has a work accident or something,

let's figure this out. Let's let's figure out insurance.

Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, no.

Speaker 3: I know.

Speaker 2: And what wouldn't be my first step sure wouldn't be

mine either, but it would not be No I know,

but like you would think that insurance people know about

like financial stuff, they know about legal stuff. I feel

like it's a it's a good like kind of middle

ground where it's like this is going to be someone

who's going to be knowledgeable. Yeah.

Speaker 3: And out of the two brothers, Paul, they had like

this building, and Paul operated an insurance agency out of it.

So when he would find these like sad Italian women

wandering around with no money or black eyes and such,

he would be like, come down to my insurance office.

We'll sort out all your financial shit. We'll get this

figured away, and we'll just we'll just figure this out together. Okay,

take my hand, sure, let's go. Okay, he was like, ladies,

don't even stress. Feeling comfortable. The women would spill their

proverbial guts and Paul would listen sympathetically. Then he'd say, hey,

like them Italian tears.

Speaker 2: Baby.

Speaker 3: Not only am I gonna help you with your money problems,

I can help you with your husband problems too.

Speaker 2: And they were probably like, oh, my god, sick.

Speaker 3: He knows like a marriage counselor maybe, and he's like, great,

stay with me. How do you feel about magic?

Speaker 2: Okay? Magic?

Speaker 3: And they were like, wait, this is the insurance guy.

This is the insurance guy.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: It was like, so let's talk about magic. And you

would think, you know, being a thirty something woman yourself,

you'd be like, hello, what, But these women came from Italy.

Italy is a very spiritual place. Yeah, and the folk

magic there because and there's this whole I'm not going

to get into it because I'm autistic, and I'll talk

for fifteen years because I think this is very interesting,

the whole mix of Italian folk magic mixing with the

the Christianity and the Catholicism that came a lot of

Like I used to be friends with an Italian family

and some of the little things that they did. They

were like, Hella Catholic. I would be like, that's witchcraft,

and they were like, no, it's not, but it is.

Speaker 2: Though. Remind me to talk to you about this later

because I have commentary on this for later, but I'm.

Speaker 3: Not going to do it now because I will go

on forever love it, but it is.

Speaker 2: They are like also a very like superstitious, very superstitious.

But I am a little stitious bunch. Yeah.

Speaker 3: So it was like a whole thing. So he was like, ladies,

we can solve this problem with the money. S sure,

but let's talk about magic.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: Let's get this magic is where the magic happens.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: So he was like, I have this whole thing, and

I have this group of Italian ladies and this real

ass doctor who I have, who are well versed in

the fatura, the magic, the Italian folk magic. Okay, they're

just gonna He's like, me and all my pals are

gonna make all your problems disappear.

Speaker 2: Okay, don't even worry about it.

Speaker 3: So they had they were called apologies for my pronunciation,

fatucciari that these were like witches, Okay, these like practitioners

so these were always wise women Josephine, Sedida, Rose Karina,

and Maria Karina Favato. So he'd be like, hang out

with my witchy girlies, that's fine, and the Italian women

would come and be like, okay, hello, witchy women, and

they would believe in this. This was like a very

This was not like a weird This was very ingrained

in their culture. Okay, this was very normal to be like, oh, yeah,

you go see the witchy person. That's fine, Like it's

still very very normal. Sure, Sure, it's just a cultural thing.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: So they were like, okay, cool, cool, cool, We'll go

to the witchy woman. Sure, and they would be like, hello,

witchy woman, my husband I just don't know what to do.

You know, in those days, your prospects were limited. So

they'd be like, my husband doesn't love me anymore. My

husband's cheating, he's beating me, he's spending money on the horses.

I don't know what to do. And the witchy woman

would say, I have just the thing for you, girl.

This in this little vial contains a magic potion, okay,

and you are going to sprinkle it on top of

your husband's spaghetti or Canoli's or whatever the hell you're making,

and he is going to fall desperately madly in love

with you.

Speaker 2: Okay, so like a little tinctures that they yeah, and

you know that's.

Speaker 3: Still a thing, you know, making tinctures, making potions, and

it's like okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, Except the potion

was arsenic. Oh it was just arsenic shit Okay, I

don't know.

Speaker 2: What I was, but it was not just straight up poison.

I'm thinking it's like again, like a tincture with like herbs,

it's like nothing because like maybe they're cheating these women,

just like water with the little ink in it or what. Yeah, yeah, no,

it was poison.

Speaker 3: Okay, So right, Because of the nature of these crimes,

we don't know all of the specifics about what the

women knew. We're talking about, like the women who came

to the place, not the witchy women. The witchy women

were like ha yes kill. But the poor sand Italian women.

I feel like it was probably on a case by

case basis of whether they really believed, oh, this is

really a love potion and my husband will fall in

love with me and everything will be fine. Are like,

oh this is arsenic to kill the bastard, thank you,

please give that to me like it did seem Because

of course everyone's different, you know, so I'm sure some

of them knew, some of them didn't know. They probably

told them different things, but it would be I'm sure

they got referrals. They sure know what I mean, Like,

they sure did? You Like this worked for me? Yeah,

of my life's right now. And that's the thing I've

talked on the podcast before about famous medieval Apothecarius Aquatofauna,

who would make poison for women. But she would specifically

tell them because in like medieval Italy, you weren't allowed

to like get divorced, and spousal abuse was not punishable

at all. She's like, hey, that is what it is.

He is allowed to hit you. Fuck you ye, women

in the kitchen make my canoli's immediately. And she would

be like, hey, do you want me to kill that guy.

Here's a little bottle, kill him to.

Speaker 2: Death with it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Fine, But this some of these women, they were deceiving them,

being like, God, this is going to make you rich,

this is gonna and actually I mean with you, I mean, well,

but here's the thing is, sometimes it kind of would

because remember what business Paul had. Oh yeah, yeah, so

you were kind of like, wow, that's so random to

have insurance. Not random because he would trick these women

into giving.

Speaker 2: And it's probably at the I mean, this was still

the time where you could take life insurance policies out

on other people, like like I want one out on

my husband.

Speaker 3: That is what would happen. So he'd be like, you

have your love potion all bagged up for you. That's

so great. You have your coop on your punch card

for next time. Love you so much? Do you want

to go and get insurance for your husband, a big

fat insurance policy that you'll sign to me right or

of my witchy women or one of my doctors. So

they had I mentioned earlier, they had a real ass doctor.

So Herman and Paul, these two guys who were running

this quote unquote business, this risky business. We're kind of trying.

So Herman Paul was one of the insurance agency and

Herman was involved with organized crime. He had links to

like a bunch of different families and stuff. Again not

trying to be you know, but he is Italian, so

it's like that's a thing. But he wanted to he

was like I'm gonna make my own mob, okay, jack

and hookers and witches. So that's what he did.

Speaker 2: He was really.

Speaker 3: Into like kind of the magic y thing of it.

And I feel like the other mob guys were like,

calm down, you're gonna have women in the mob. Stop it,

and he was like, God forbid, women do anything?

Speaker 2: Sure, please, Sure. So that's what they.

Speaker 3: Were doing, is they were kind of trying to form

their own mobs. So they had a doctor that they

had whose name was Morris Bolber. He was already a

gang member in the mob. They called him Louis the Rabbi.

Speaker 2: Well it's really, oh my god, I mean there's way

worse things out there, Louis the Rabbi. Yeah. So he

was not many of them, right, definitely not. He was

like a Russian Jewish immigrant. Oh okay yea.

Speaker 3: So like this and this is the thing about Philadelphia

being a melting pot is not all of these people

were Italian. A lot of like different people who were different. Hey,

it's a sureful melting pot of murders. Beautiful love seeing

people working together. So he would help like get the

arsenic Okay, that was kind of his rules, Like there, yes,

in procurement. Yes, and and because they were they were

like a real insurance agency. So they began to recruit

other insurance agents because it was getting so popular that

he was like, bro, I.

Speaker 2: Need a break okay, vacation Okay, So they would.

Speaker 3: In this time period, insurance policies were really cheap. You

could pay like nothing and get like a huge policy.

And the cool thing for them was if the policy

was under five hundred dollars a medical examination, like if

that person died, which they would because they were chock

full of arsenate, right, If it was under five hundred dollars,

you didn't have to have a medical examination, Okay, if

you have a higher insurance policy, it's required. Could you

get multiple five hundred dollars insurance policies? Oh yeah, And

of course they were hopping to all of these insurance

agents in things. They would get multiple things from multiple

different agencies.

Speaker 2: On the same guy.

Speaker 3: Yeah, sign the different ones to different gang members, and

they ended up getting a lot of money.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, so that is honestly, that is quite a

brilliant scheme, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, this is the thing.

Speaker 3: So there was a newspaper a Philadelphia newspaper. This is

how it caught my eye, like at first. So this

was the Camden Evening Courier. This was the nineteen thirty

nine headline which doctor pleads guilty and ring death. Okay,

my girl, what the hell is that?

Speaker 2: I look? What does this mean? Yeah? What do you mean?

What do you mean?

Speaker 1: So?

Speaker 3: Sometimes so mostly they dealt with the wives like this

was their whole thing. They did other crime they did,

like a little bit of you know, fevery, a little

drug deal and stuff like that. Their main money thing

was this insurance scam using me h, organized crime links.

They were just like rolling in the benjamins. Oh yeah,

I bet, I bet the benjamins. And sometimes they would

have the spend. They did all kinds of stuff. They

were like kind of expanding their grift as they went along.

They would sometimes have the husbands come in and.

Speaker 2: Be like, we are a normal insurance agent.

Speaker 3: See would you like a powdery drink, you know, or

would you like to sign here?

Speaker 2: You can pay an extra disposal fee if you want

to bring him in take care. If you can get

him here, we'll take care of their business of convenience.

We really want to take it for a charge you

the consumer. Then no one has to know exactly. We'll

even pack him in a coffin and send him on

his way.

Speaker 1: Eig.

Speaker 2: Oh my god. They should have gotten into funeral homes.

I'm not sure they didn't. I'm not sure they did.

Speaker 3: Okay, So they started expanding into because sometimes, you know,

I feel like it would probably not that I think

about these things, but I think it would be pretty

easy to kill somebody with poisoned speating their food or drink.

But sometimes that wasn't working, so they would start to

do more direct ways of murder. There was a guy

who got run over by a car, hit him with

a vehicle. There was a guy who was bludgeing to death.

All of these would be connected back to this ring.

And plus there was this whole like spooky thing starting

in the neighborhood. Because of course they'd be like this

woman went to the witch and now her like shit, ass,

husband's dead. Ooh magic, And so all of the non

Italian people were like, hello, that is very scary. I

should probably tell someone. So it was a very spooky

time in the neighborhood. Was nineteen Thirti's Philadelphia was there

were all these murder witches hanging around. I feel like

this would only fuel some sort of like racism.

Speaker 2: Absolutely Italian.

Speaker 3: Oh it was a prejudiced ass time, okay, because if

you have one that's like, oh, don't go over there.

Speaker 2: They're the witchy people. The core curses on you. And

they did. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: This is the thing is they were pretending to help

these women. And you know, I'm a big I'm a

big feminist with maybe some loose morals, and I'm like,

if you kill that husband, I'm not going to say nothing.

Speaker 2: I don't care men's rights and wrungs.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a different time. You couldn't do any

I understand. But it's like if they really wanted to

help them, they would try to integrate them into the community.

You know that they were othering them on purpose because

it served them. Nobody wants to go over there.

Speaker 2: Because that's where all the witches are right now saying

this is the only reason for her obviously absolutely Italian.

But they are certainly using it.

Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, because it was seen as like this

old little community. So people didn't want to break in

and see because it was like, well damn, I don't

speak Italian. So they also did this is like a

little aside, but I think it's really interesting. They started

a uh like a matchmaking service, which again we've talked

about it on the podcast before. It's very common old

timey thing, lonely hearts in the newspaper kind of thing.

They read like a matchmaking service, which was the same

thing where they would be like, yeah, get married and

then sign right here for the insurance, sir, and then

they would kill him.

Speaker 2: Oh like the insurance is just included in the marriage. Yeah,

I mean convenient. Yeah, they're they're an organization of convenience,

very convenience.

Speaker 3: I love that here for your convenience. So, uh, eventually

there was a so this is this is another like

kind of a side. But this is the part that

I think you'll find really interesting because it's kind of

a wholesome part of this very weird and gross story.

So one of the people. One of the ways that

this case kind of came unraveled because I think they

got too big for their birches was one thing, and

like stick to one scheme, but they're like bludgeoning hose.

I'm like, that's evidence. You gotta stop them. Yeah, So

there was a woman named Stella Alfons who her husband

died in connection to this gang. So when she went

to court because his death was like super suspicious, super weird,

the police were like, okay, Stella, and she was like,

I didn't do chime out.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I didn't do that. I'm just a lady. Yeah.

Speaker 3: And they were like Stella, Stella exactly. But they were like, no,

come to court. She was like, okay. So again this

is this is like probably nineteen thirty nine, this is

almost in the forties. So she's like, I got to

hire an attorney. She did the very unusual for the

time step of hiring a black attorney.

Speaker 2: Oh my god, this.

Speaker 3: Was Raymond Pace Alexander. Okay, she is a very interesting

I'm not gonna talk about it because again I've mentioned

the autism before.

Speaker 2: I'm just gonna not stop. Yeah, but I.

Speaker 3: Will put like a biography of his in the show notes. Okay,

fascinating historical character.

Speaker 2: Interested to got her asse acquitted even though she did

that shit. Wow, a good lawyer.

Speaker 3: So, like you were talking about the prejudice against Italians

at the time in America, which was large, and then

here is this Italian murder lady with a black attorney. Wow,

and he got her acquitted.

Speaker 2: I mean I can appreciate a good lawyer. Yeah, like

I could respect what he was.

Speaker 1: Paid to do.

Speaker 3: Yeah right, Yeah, and like you know, maybe they tricked her.

They didn't, but I don't know. Yeah, no they didn't.

She knew, but you know, it's okay. But later he

would go to serve on city council and he would

become the first black judge on Pennsylvania's Court of Common Please.

Speaker 2: Oh, very cool.

Speaker 1: That fabulous.

Speaker 3: He's a very interesting character and you should definitely look

him up if you're interested, which you should be if

you're interested in interesting things. Yes, so there is still

like eventually pretty much all of them. I think there

were twenty two people who ended up getting convicted. Most

of them spent most of their lives in jail. Henry

and Paul and the doctor Morris all got life, So

they all got life in jail. So they were connected

overall to about thirty five murders.

Speaker 2: It's just like yours. That is a huge you.

Speaker 3: Never know, No, every time, it's like a mob thing.

Imagine that number times three. I've heard that on a

documentary once, and it's never left me. I'm like, yeah, yeah,

I guess so, because they don't know they're swimming with

the fishes.

Speaker 2: There's I mean, there's only.

Speaker 3: They can't find Jimmy Hoffa is still.

Speaker 2: Right, there's only like a certain you only know what

you know once you caught on right, right.

Speaker 3: Half of those people don't what do they call it sing?

They don't snitch, No snitches, So it's like, how are

you gonna know? So the credible estimates are of one

hundred victims or more, which I would say is sensible.

I think it's probably quite a few. Yeah, and there

are a lot of again this is still it's America,

but it's still wartimes, so a lot of missing persons

around that time.

Speaker 2: Where it's like, was that those.

Speaker 3: Guys, Yeah, yeah, I been never ever going to have

enough evidence to write prove it right? Ever, I think

it was so the thing that fascinated me about this case,

Like primarily as I was looking into murder doctors, I

was like, how did they get this whole ass doctor

to give them their arsenic and to write up all

of these medical medical thing oh you know, blah blah blah,

Like he was an integral part of their Yeah, thing.

They couldn't have done half of this without him, And

I'm like, dude, how did you go from this Russian

Jewish immigrant who probably had a crazy life. There's like

barely any information about him, and then you come here

and then you're in the mob, and then you're just

being a murder doctor.

Speaker 2: Like, bro, what are you doing? I mean, open your

own practice. He probably made good money though, well now

he's better money. Yeah, no, he's probably super He's definitely dead.

They're all dead. They're all dead.

Speaker 3: I mean, you know it was but I thought that

that was a very interesting mix of wow, so old

timey racism and which, yeah, thats crazycept not really no,

just poison. Abracadabra. Your husband's dead.

Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody

knows things are bad.

Speaker 2: It's a depression, everybody.

Speaker 1: Losing their job.

Speaker 2: Well, Rachel, Hi, that has been our show. That's been

our episode. Sure has Uh do you have any final

thoughts before we close out? Don't poison people?

Speaker 3: I feel I mean, that's good solid advice, I would

think so.

Speaker 2: That is very solid.

Speaker 3: I think so, I would think so. But I do

feel sorry for all them, sad, lonely Italian ladies. You're

trying to get out of a tough situation and ended

up with the fucking mob.

Speaker 2: I'm like they just wanted to show Yeah, right, it's crazy.

Uh my need for insurance has never led me to accidentally,

not that you know of. That's true, all right. If

you enjoyed this episode, you can find more just like

this at bad Taste podcast dot com. Our sound and

editing is by Tiff Fullman. Our music is by Jason

Zakshowsky Nakma. This has been the Bad Taste Crime podcast.

We will see you in two weeks. Goodbye, Hello, go

along the highway.

Speaker 1: They think it was as if the way that people

washed over with town

Speaker 2: While you were wearing some form or another