Episode 230 - Kleptomania is Just Another Name for Stealing

Behind every blurry profile picture and broken webcam is a masterclass in romance fraud, maxed-out credit cards, and federal wire charges. We are unpacking the dark side of digital dating where your soulmate turns out to be a syndicate. Tune in, reverse-image search your heartthrob, and remember: if they can't FaceTime, they're probably facing a grand jury.

Research links below!:

Crime + Investigation - "A deadly love triangle: What happened to Cari Farver?"
TIME - "The Deadly Love Triangle Behind Netflix True Crime Documentary Lover, Stalker, Killer"
A&E - "The Mysterious Murder of Cari Farver and How Digital Evidence Helped Crack the Case"
People - "Real-Life Fatal Attraction: Nebraska Love Triangle Turns Deadly"
Yahoo! - "'Lover, Stalker, Killer': What happened to Dave Kroupa?"

Teara - "Biography: Bock, Amy Maud"
RNZ - "Con-Artist: the story of Amy Bock"
Wanganui Herald - "Amy Bock"
Evening Post - "Sentence on Amy Bock"
Otago Witness - "An Artful Schemer."
New Zealand Geographic - "The Case of the Female Bridegroom"

Speaker 1: What they discovered upon their arrival was almost unspeakable.

Speaker 2: The dead won't bother you. It's the living you gotta worry.

Speaker 1: About.

Speaker 2: If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at

least I felt that I could keep their skeletons alive.

Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast.

Speaker 2: I'm Rachel. I'm Vicki. Hi, guys. Hello. How are we doing? Well,

I'm great because I just petted a cat. Yeah, she

just got her cat time in. There is a new

kitten in the recording space. So cute. Gandalf the Gray Goose.

He's so adorable. He's very cute.

Speaker 1: Gandalf the Gray and Gandalf the White and Monty Python

and the Holy Grail's Black Knight.

Speaker 2: Benito Busolini. And the blue meanie. Are you done? There's more.

I know. Just waiting for you to finish. This is

the ultimate showdown. I watched somebody, somebody did an updated

version of that. I saw that. It was really cool.

With like updated graphics and updated audio. It looked really good.

If you guys don't know it, I'm talking about you're

too young. This was very early internet. Albino black sheep era.

That was the best. Yeah. Which I'll buy. I mean,

I'll buy no black sheep and new grounds are both

still around. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. It's just not

the same now. You had to be there. You had

to be there. It's true. It's very true. That was

the same era of, like, 55. Oh, my God. Yeah. Numa, Numa, yeah. Yeah.

And Super Mario, please. Yeah. So good. So good. Anyway,

but I'm tired. You touched my spaghetti. Yeah. It's very

early internet shit. So good. We were talking about... There

was something that I was watching that had this very

early internet nostalgia feel to it. Love it. And I

was just like, times are so much simpler.

Speaker 1: I always liked like, I feel like memes from then

are so well known because it was like, it was

just every so often something funny would come along. Now

it's like there's 500 million hilarious things every day. It's

like oversaturation of media.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you had to hear about it from somebody

else and seek it out. It's not like people were

texting each other memes or whatever. Right. You literally had

to hear it from somebody and seek it out. We

are aging ourselves heavily. I'm turning into dust as we speak.

So we're just going to move right along. If this

is your first time listening, a special hello to you.

Speaker 1: Hi.

Speaker 2: We are going to head over to the newsroom. Let's

go there. This week, our news comes from California, where

43-year-old Randall Vance pleaded guilty in federal court to multiple

drug charges after he... Now ran. So basically, he was

running an illegal drug business out of San Diego, California.

I'm sorry, San Diego County, California. Yeah. But he– one

of the things he admitted to was regularly dosing his

two young sons with hallucinogenic mushrooms, like microdosing. I did

see this. Yeah. So in total– That's horrible. He had

multiple drug charges, including conspiracy to employ minors to help cultivate, produce,

and distribute mushrooms at locations in Fallbrook, Bonsall in North County,

San Diego. And then he also pleaded guilty to conspiracy

to distribute a controlled substance to counts of distributing a

substance to minors. In conspiracy to obstruct justice, but his

sons that he has been drugging. That, yeah, that he's

been microdosing have been, they are 9 and 11 years old.

Oh my God. That's horrible. Yeah. But he pled guilty.

So in this document, he said he used SillyRabbit.com and SillyRabbitMushrooms.com. What?

And an Instagram page, SillyRabbitCa. Oh, C-A. Oh. SillyRabbitCa. So

that must have been his brand was Silly Rabbit. It

starts with a P, right? Like P-S-I-L-L-Y. Oh, wow. That's

so clever. To market and sell freeze dried and freeze

dried mushrooms as well as chocolate capsules containing psilocybin, which

is magic mushrooms. Yeah. He also talked about providing psilocybin

capsules to his oldest son, who was 12 at the time,

for sale to his friends. He also provided the products

to his wife to distribute to others. He said that

he began dosing his 9 and 11-year-old sons beginning in

October 2023 every other day. And he eventually increased the

doses to every day in March 2024. And he encouraged, like,

dosing young children to other people. Yeah. Dude, there's a

reason there's not really studies on that. It's not great. No.

No more kids for you. Yeah. It does say, although

he did provide his sons with psilocybin, the doses were

negligible and the boys are living with their grandma now.

That's good. And he, it says Vance was originally interested

in using the psychedelic compound for potential therapeutic treatment for

Lyme disease and mental illness for his wife. Okay. And

then kind of got into the drug trade and then started.

He got lost in the sauce. Started microdosing his sons.

The mushroom sauce. And then, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Hey,

fuck that guy. They also talk about how he got

into psilocybin thinking that the state would legalize similarly to

how they've done with marijuana.

Speaker 1: Uh-huh.

Speaker 2: Because there is, I think, legitimate use for psilocybin. Totally.

In like specifically the mental health space. Right. And like,

you know what?

Speaker 1: If you're a grown up and you want to do mushroom,

I think it's OK.

Speaker 2: So he has he has not for kids. Right. He

has pled guilty. He hasn't been sentenced yet, but it's

just as wild to me that somebody would dose their horrible. Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's their children. I don't want to make my kids

more crazy. That seems like it'd be awful. Having young

children already feels like trip-sitting.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I wouldn't want it to feel more like that.

But also, I think they use it a lot in, like,

PTSD or trauma treatment. And it's like, okay, under the

care of, like, a doctor. Right. Understandable. In an adult,

when your, like, brain is fully developed. Right. That's the

other thing, is there's, like, no studies on how it

affects development, and that could be really damaging. Right, because

they can't do studies like that ethically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No kidding. Right. Anyway, so that's what's happening in California. Wow. Meanwhile,

we are going to move over to Netflix and kill

this week. We are talking about maternal instinct. I thought so. Yes. Yes.

Which has come out and just captivated the world. It's

a good one. So this one is about Taylor Parker

and the 2020 murder of Reagan Simmons Hancock that happened

in Texas. Taylor Parker, essentially big spoilers. Okay. I'm just

going to tell you right off the bat. Taylor Parker

essentially faked a pregnancy and then murdered Reagan Simmons Hancock

in order to steal her unborn baby forcibly out of

her stomach. And pass it off as, look, I had

a baby. Yes. And gets pulled over for speeding and

has this baby with an umbilical cord. Yep. That appears

to be coming out of the mother. Yeah. At the

time they pull her over and they take her to

the hospital where an exam is performed to see if

she did in fact just give birth. And the doctor

rolls out and is like absolutely not. I love that doctor.

Did you watch the documentary? Okay. So yeah, the fact

that the doctor rolled, he was literally not even outside

the curtain. She did not have a baby. He's like, yeah,

there's no way she had a baby. Nope. So it

sort of investigates Taylor Parker. And her life and this whole,

the events leading up and this whole sort of deal,

which is, first of all, this type of thing, the

womb raiders, the sort of baby stealers is not uncommon.

It's not. It probably happens more often than people would

like to think. Yeah. This is from the National Center

of Missing and Exploited Children. So since 1974, there have

been 24 fetal abduction cases reported to the NCMEC. NCMEC. Yep.

13 have survived. 11 have died. Yep. And 22 mothers

have died, two survived. The average age of the abductor

was 33. Wow. And there were five cases in which

the abductor had an accomplice. And then it talks about

where it's happening. But this one I found really interesting

because she... One, I don't know that we've had... They've

had documentaries about cases like this, but I don't know

that they've had them where they have directly... interviewed the

potential baby daddy.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Oh my God, that loser. And the guy is... Her

boyfriend or whatever? Delusional. Yeah, that guy sucks. He even

now seems very... I'm having the baby. Okay. All right. Yeah,

and I do, I feel a bit bad because... He

very much, I think, felt like he was in a

situation where he because he talks about even like things

are moving very quickly. Yeah. Telling him that she loved him.

And then all of a sudden she was pregnant. He

was like, this is taking place in the South. So

he's very much like traditional, traditional. Like, I'm not going

to let. her raise the baby by herself. Right. You know.

Speaker 1: And.

Speaker 2: Trying to do the decent thing. I think he had

a bit of willful ignorance. Just a tad. Because even

before the whole pregnancy thing, there were a lot of

lies being told as far as the relationship with her family. Right.

And this whole inheritance thing. That's why I think he

was there. And she was trying to get her money. Yeah.

I mean, she was like spending all of this money

on stuff that they couldn't afford. I mean, and we're

talking like trucks and ATVs and big ass purchases. Yes.

They were buying a pecan farm. So cute. That she

like made this huge announcement like three days later. They

were like, no, you can't buy it. Like it was

this whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. And things were getting repoed

and then people started asking questions. Well, as it turns out,

she also had a hysterectomy. Yep. So like literally can't

get pregnant and failed to communicate this to her current

partner at the time. Right. Anyway, just a fucking wild story. Yeah.

It gives me sort of like the flavor of like Munchausen. Yes.

But it is not. necessarily medically related. I think she

just likes the attention. Yeah, I think so too. Because

a lot of these were– a big percentage of them

were like financially– Yeah. Related lies until the pregnancy. Yeah.

It seems like it's some kind of psychosis. Yeah. Yeah.

Because even after she had gone to the hospital with

this baby that she had stolen. Yeah. She was insisting, like,

even after she had been examined. She's like, no, I

had a baby. Insisting that she had a baby. Yeah.

Insisting that the baby was hers.

Speaker 1: And, like, there's ways to tell very easily.

Speaker 2: Like, I saw.

Speaker 1: way before the documentary, they put some of the police

tapes for it online.

Speaker 2: So of course, I'm all about that. So I watched it.

And I think this part is in the documentary too.

I just can't remember.

Speaker 1: But it's the police actually coming to the hospital. They've

already been informed about what's going on. And he walks

into like the parking garage with like a nurse and is.

Speaker 2: Talking to her. And she's like, he's like, so what's,

what do you think? Like, you're a nurse.

Speaker 1: Like, what do you think is going on? She's like,

she did not, there's no way that she had a baby.

She's like, her, we've, She's like, she won't let us

examine her.

Speaker 2: She doesn't want us touching the baby.

Speaker 1: It's like very, very suspicious and weird. She's like, we've

had people come in all the time who have like, oops,

I accidentally gave birth in my truck.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Oops, I accidentally gave birth at home. She's like, we

deal with that all the time. This is not that.

She's like, there's certain like levels in the blood.

Speaker 2: Right. And so she's like, there's no possibility that she's

even been pregnant recently. Well, and especially if you're talking

about a natural birth, like there's going to be certain

damage to your genitals. She literally- In the process of

all of that, like- Scooped. After she had cut the

poor victim open, she scooped the amniotic fluid out of

her womb and put it on her like pelvis and legs. Right.

Speaker 1: So that it would look like she gave birth. That

is like the most disgusting- Yeah. And the mother and

the baby both passed away.

Speaker 2: Yes. And she talks about after this stabbing took place

that Reagan, the victim, said, oh, please, like, take my baby. Like,

please take my baby out of me. Like, take the

baby into it. She's like, it's okay. She asked me to. Yeah.

I was just being a friend. Yeah. After I fucking

stabbed her. Yeah. It's sad because Reagan was really a

beautiful person. It's really sad. Very sad. But just a

very interesting story. Again, I don't think that I've seen

like a documentary like this where the people involved gave

so much access. Right. To. New era. All of it. Yup. Very,

very interesting. Yup. This is not part of the show

where we say content may not be appropriate for all listeners.

May not. Mine's actually more on the fun side, I'm

not gonna lie.

Speaker 1: Mine does have a moida, but it's also a little

more moida.

Speaker 2: It's a little fun episode. So what are we talking

about today, Rachel?

Speaker 1: Today we are going with catfish crimes.

Speaker 2: Yay.

Speaker 1: Crimes of the catfishy persuasion. As we all know, a

catfish is somebody pretending to be somebody else, usually through

the internet or by some electronic method.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: In and of itself, it's not exactly illegal.

Speaker 2: I will say it depends on where in the world

you are. Yep. And it depends on who you're trying

to impersonate. Correct. And for what. But the problem is

it very quickly like dips into like, hey, you're doing fraud. Right. Yeah.

Or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And it does seem like, like, so like every other-

person our age, I've seen like every episode of Catfish,

the TV show.

Speaker 2: I think it's so funny. I love that show. We

had one filmed right here in our hometown. We sure did.

Speaker 1: I went to that park the other day. I was like, ah,

what's up? It seems like these catfishing cases are either

like romantically motivated, like they're trying to get companionship. They're

trying to get like somebody to love them or they're

trying to like fraud people.

Speaker 2: Or both. Yeah. Or I would say romantically on the

bad side too, right? Well, I think it's all on

the bad side. Well, I'm talking like grooming children type

of shit. Oh, that too. Like that sort of quote

unquote romantic. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Right. Like

posing as like a teenager when you're actually like, you know, 70.

Very true. Trying to get some 15 year old. Yeah.

Speaker 1: But it always seems to me, even when it's like,

explained it. It's just like a weird and insidious thing

to do.

Speaker 2: It's so strange. It's a power thing. It is. Power play.

And it's control. I'm going to control how you see me.

I'm like, that's weird. I also love the episodes of

Catfish where they think they're dating a celebrity. Obsessed. Those

are my favorite ones. The guy who thought that he

was talking to Katy Perry. Oh my God.

Speaker 1: That's like my favorite episode. And then when he met

the girl who was like, Sorry, I'm not Katy Perry. Like,

I catfished you. He's like, no, I actually still think

that this is set up by production. I'm still talking

to Katy Perry.

Speaker 2: So delusional. He probably still thinks that. Probably. My brother.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, now she's dating Trudeau, which is like the

most down-to-earth thing you could do. I hate her so much.

Maybe she was talking to him. She pisses me off

real bad.

Speaker 1: I hate that fucking video. This is the catfishy case.

So this I want to mention as well. This was

a really famous Netflix documentary.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: This case was subject to it. It's called Lover, Stalker, Killer.

Speaker 2: Yes. And it's really good. I have heard of that.

So if you guys want to check it out. But

I have not watched it. It's a heart pounder. I

think it's on my list. It's really good. Yeah. It's

very like fast paced. This is like out of the UK. No. No. Okay.

I'm thinking of a different. I think you are. There's

a couple catfish. There's quite a few catfish. This is in.

Docks out there. This is a very. Okay. Okay. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 1: It's so fascinating. It does seem to be like a cultural.

Speaker 2: Especially now it's become more common because it's easier. On

the internet. To do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So this was

a little earlier. This was in 2012. Yeah. So there

was still internet, there was still phones, but it was

definitely different from today. Yeah. We've come a long way. Yeah. Well,

in 2012, it was different from 2000. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: We've lived through a big technological thingy.

Speaker 2: Yes, we have. I think about that sometimes. It's weird. Yeah,

and I'm trying not to think about it too hard.

It becomes a little too existential. That's why I spoke. Yep.

Speaker 1: So in 2012, an Omaha auto repair shop manager named

Dave Krupa, He had been staying. He had kind of

stayed the night.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: They weren't boyfriend and girlfriend. They had been dating for

about two weeks.

Speaker 2: Okay. Her name was Carrie Farver. I believe that's what

the kids would call a situationship. Yeah. They're just talking.

They're in the talking phase. Yes. But I'm like, you're

leaving her house at 6.30 in the morning to go

to work. I mean. What did you guys do all night? Scrabble? Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe just cuddled. Cuddled. Cuddled. Cuddled. I'm so tired. I'm

so tired. Maybe they just cobbled.

Speaker 1: They're like making little shoes. So he worked at a

telecommunications company.

Speaker 2: Okay. So he's like, okay, bye. Bye, girl. I'm going to,

thanks for, you know, all that Scrabble we played. I'm

going to go to work. Bye. Okay.

Speaker 1: And again, they were, they'd only been dating for about

two weeks. And I guess he had made it clear

to her, like, hey, this is just kind of what

it is.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Like. We're not going to be together. I don't

do labels. Right.

Speaker 1: I'm not really looking for that right now. We're just

going to be friends with benefits.

Speaker 2: Okay. So he was like, okay, bye friends with benefits.

I'm going to go to work. Bye bye. So he's

at work. He's working.

Speaker 1: And all of a sudden he gets a text message,

which it was unusual for anyone to text him during work.

Speaker 2: So he was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1: He looked at his phone and Carrie had texted him,

do you want to move in together now?

Speaker 2: He was like, uh. Now picture any man. He's like. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, for two weeks, it's like. No, for real.

It is a little weird. And that's exactly. What he said.

So this is a direct quote from Krupa. I was like,

what the hell? What the hell? Oh my God.

Speaker 1: So he was like, I don't text people when I

work ever. He's like, he's one of those guys. He's

like- Responsible.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And he had a very busy involved job, like telecommunications,

I'm sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So he kind of gave her.

Speaker 1: I couldn't find exactly what he said to her, but

he kind of gave her like, it said a dismissive reply.

So I'm assuming like, It was something like, you know,

where is this coming from?

Speaker 2: Or we can talk about this later. Right. Like, hey,

that's a little coming up. of fucking nowhere. Let's talk

about it when I get home. Like, no, not right now. Yeah.

And no.

Speaker 1: And part of his, it said that his response was

him saying, no.

Speaker 2: I'm not going to move in with you. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Because she replied back, I hate you. You ruined my life.

I never want to see you again.

Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. Dodged a bullet. No, that he.

Speaker 1: Literally said, well, I'll read this quote. All morning, my

text messages were pinging, pinging, pinging, and it's all this

nasty stuff. I'm thinking, wow, I dodged a bullet.

Speaker 2: Right. Okay. Because that's the thing when you're in this new,

I mean, two weeks. Yeah. She's a stranger. You barely

know her. And now all of a sudden she's acting crazy.

It's like, well, you know what? I just won't see

her anymore. No strings attached. That's okay. And that's kind

of what he figured. He was like, damn, this bitch

is nuts. Sure. Okay, well, I'll just, whatever. But it

was not whatever. Okay.

Speaker 1: Because over the next four years, he would become the

victim of this excessive harassment and stalking by this number.

Speaker 2: Yikes. By Carrie. Yikes.

Speaker 1: It said he received 50,000 texts And about 18,000 intimidating emails.

Speaker 2: Damn.

Speaker 1: So it was like her phone and then like he

would block that number and another number would call, would

take over. And like the same with email, he would.

Speaker 2: Delete it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you would make another one and then it would

find him. So it was like accumulated.

Speaker 2: That was the worst time to have that happen to

in 2012. Like, now there's lots of controls on the

phone to deal with that. Like I have a thing

on my phone that essentially screens my calls. Yeah, I

love that. And it's a voice when it's like a

number that's like, man, Like it uses it for the

Amazon drivers all the time. That's like, hey, I'm answering

this phone on the behalf of this number. Before I

connect to you, can you tell me what you need?

Because it can tell the difference between like an automated

phone call and like an actual person. If it's on

your phone, I will definitely show you how to do that.

But it's super nice because they will record like a

little message like, hi, I'm here to pick up a package. Yeah,

that you can listen to before you answer the call. Oh, hi,

I'm here to kill you with a knife. Blocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's successfully diverted. You could have used that. I know.

Successfully diverted all of the Versity blood donor calls. Oh, nice.

Because I actually don't really want to donate with them

anymore because they put out pride emails, but they still

won't let gay men donate. Oh, look at that. That's

so disgusting. Yeah. Anyway, so I was like, I'm kind

of done with you. Fuck those hoes. But they still

want my O blood. No, you can't have my blood.

I got the special blood and they want it. Oh,

you have that? Yeah, I think so. That's what Rob has.

Mine is B positive. I do donate blood, but I

won't donate to Versity anymore.

Speaker 1: Good.

Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck you guys. Don't sponsor us. We hate you.

So all of the ads from Versity. Yeah, right. Imagine.

No ads. We hate you. Oh, God.

Speaker 1: So through this whole thing, he's getting all of these emails,

this four year period. And it wasn't just him because,

you know, he was 47 at the time. He was

like in his late 40s, but he was kind of

playing the field. Like he said to Carrie, like, hey, girl,

I can't be tied down. I got to sow my seeds.

So he was sowing his seeds with his on again,

off again, kind of casual partner, Liz Goyler.

Speaker 2: Okay. And what a last name. Goyler. Goyler.

Speaker 1: Goyler.

Speaker 2: And, like, former girlfriends that he'd had, former girls he'd

gone on dates with would get harassing messages and contact

him and be like, what the fuck? And he's like, dude,

I'm sorry. Like, I don't know what to do. Oh,

my God.

Speaker 1: And, like, they would go through the same thing of, like,

they'd change their stuff and then it would just come again.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: At one point, Krupa literally moved away. He moved out

of state.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Changed his phone number and email address many, many, many

times and just nothing happened. nothing was working.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So let's go back to, you kind of pointed

out her funny last name, let's go back to Goyler. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1: So when Krupa moved from, so this is before he

met Carrie and everything like that, when he actually moved

into the Omaha area from Wisconsin, he had been giving,

he'd been in like a really long-term relationship with a

woman who had had children from a previous relationship. So

it was like a really serious relationship. And I get

the impression that it did not end well, like that

it shook him. And I think that's probably why he

was so insistent on like, I just want casual. I

don't want to go through that again. I don't want

anything deep right now. I'm not ready. I'm just playing

the field. So he was like, I'm just going to

try like online dating. So that's how he met Liz Goyler.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: So they would be together for on and off about

six months. And after six months, he met Carrie Farver.

And again, this is all fine. They're all casual. Nobody's

really cheating on anybody. But this is a very dramatic...

They made this so dramatic in the Netflix thing, it's

really funny. So again, he's telling her, we're not really together.

Speaker 2: It's fine. So he had.

Speaker 1: been with Carrie and they had agreed to like get

a drink. So she came to his work to be like, okay,

let's go. You're done with your work. Let's go get

a drink. And he like walked out with her and

then past them walked Goyler.

Speaker 2: Okay. So they like passed each other. Yeah. And she's like,

you're with a fucking girl. She didn't say anything. Sure.

They passed by each other. So it's like now he's,

she's aware. Okay.

Speaker 1: And it should be all fine because again, It's casual.

Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of people say that. No, I know. Actually.

Speaker 1: And this is the thing, you know, I've seen, I've

seen a lot.

Speaker 2: Whatever. Men are very annoying. So, well, this is all happening.

So that all happened.

Speaker 1: So he's kind of dating these two women at the

same time. And he was going on other dates as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah. That happened.

Speaker 1: He got those like crazy messages from Carrie, like you

want to move in together. And then she's like going nuts.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: After that, Carrie's family would report her missing.

Speaker 2: Okay. Which he was like, what do you mean missing? Yeah.

She's been texting me. Yeah. She's been emailing me. Like,

what do you mean? Right. What's going on? Right.

Speaker 1: So he's getting all of these messages. So it's like,

and as it's going, it's getting more and more violent.

And now his girlfriend, Liz Goyler, is also getting messages.

So he said, quote, we'd be hanging out on a

Saturday and both of our emails would start blowing up

at the same time.

Speaker 2: So they'd be sitting together in their phones. So it's like, oh, God,

now I know that it's her.

Speaker 1: So they're both receiving all this harassment. But it's so

weird because they're saying that she's missing. And she had

a son. Carrie had a son, I believe, named Max,

who ended up having to go and stay with his

grandparents because she was nowhere to be found. So the

family was really campaigning, like, help us find Carrie. But

the police didn't seem to be really taking it seriously.

And they weren't able to locate her. So, but he

was like, she's obviously alive because she's sending me all

this shit.

Speaker 2: Right, right. So, in late 2012, the threats became a

little more physical. Okay. Someone claiming to be Carrie started...

vandalizing stuff. So Krupa and Goyler would come out of

the apartment and their cars would be vandalized. Spray painted,

windows would be broken, their houses would be broken into.

And then it culminated in 2013, Liz Goyler's house was

actually burned down. What's really sad is she had inside

a cat a snake, and four dogs. And they all.

Speaker 1: Perished in the fire, which is always just horrible to say.

This was when Krupa made the decision to get the

hell out of Dodge. He's like, I'm actually moving. He

moved pretty far away to a whole new city. And

then he kind of, not victim blaming, but he kind

of made the mistake of, I'm going to post my

info on a dating site.

Speaker 2: He said as soon as he did that, popped up.

There are certain internet programs that can track Like, they're illegal,

but they can track, like, when you put, like, your

phone number or your address in. Right. So she probably

had it, like, pinged. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Silly. This was, again, 2012.

Speaker 1: You know, not a super technological, not like it is today.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: So police were having trouble finding the source of the

messages because, obviously, they're trying to find Carrie, but they

can't find where she's sending all of this stuff from.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So they're kind of like pushing him off like, well,

we can't prove we can't prove anything.

Speaker 2: It just kind of is what it is. Call us

when she kills one of you, I guess. Yeah. Cool. Great. Yeah.

Good plan.

Speaker 1: So he at like 2015 by like 2015, he kind

of was like, all right, it's cooled down. Doesn't seem

to be happening so much anymore. I guess the case

has gone cold. Like, I don't know where Carrie is,

but I don't know.

Speaker 2: I guess I can calm down. Yeah. Meanwhile, investigators are

finally starting to take Carrie's disappearance seriously. And they started

looking into it. And they were like, you know, what's

really weird is she's, you know, supposedly sending all these

messages and emails. But besides that, there has been no

sign of life from Carrie since the morning like he

left for work. There is no evidence that she's alive anywhere. Okay.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So they're like, okay, that's pretty weird. So they're like, well,

let's look into this extensive, electronic record of like 18,000

text messages and 50,000 emails or whatever it was. And

with the help of digital forensic specialist Anthony Cava, who's

like a big deal, he was like, oh, good news.

I've gotten a single IP address. They're like, great to hear.

Speaker 2: Who is it? Well, it's Liz Goyler. Of course.

Speaker 1: Liz had been sending the messages all along.

Speaker 2: Wow. Wild.

Speaker 1: Every text, every email, she had been harassing his ex-girlfriend

who had young children saying, I know where they go

to school. I'm going to kill your kids. She would

send him messages like, I.

Speaker 2: See you in your chair. Creepy. I see you sitting there. Ew.

Speaker 1: Ew.

Speaker 2: Um... So creepy. They knew at that point in 2015. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And it's fun in the documentary. I mean, that's got

to be like a fun discovery for them.

Speaker 2: Like, whoa, that's crazy. Because I don't think they were

expecting it. No. Well, it's like the mom and the fucking. Oh,

my God. Calls coming from inside the house. Whatever that

one was. I hated that one. Phone number. Unknown number.

Unknown number. Unknown number. Anyway. But it's like that where

it's like, well. Yeah. It's like, well, that's her. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So they knew because they were like, this IP address

is so definitive. They found all of this electronic evidence

that she had done this, which also means that she

must have burned down her own house and.

Speaker 2: Killed her own pets. That's crazy. Right.

Speaker 1: So they didn't have enough evidence to arrest her immediately.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: But by the end of that year, in December... So

I had said like the text and everything had kind

of died down like a little bit, started ramping back up.

It started getting worse again. And they started again receiving

like having like things vandalized and feeling like has the

house been broken into and receiving violent text messages. And

then all of a sudden, poor Liz Goyler gets shot

in the leg. She's like, oh my God, this... crazy

lady shot me in the leg. And they went to

the hospital and they looked and they're like, bitch, you

shot yourself in the leg.

Speaker 2: Oh my God. Nobody shot you in. Like you can tell,

you can tell if you shot yourself in the leg. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Or if it came from somebody else. And they said

it was like, they were like, yeah, you obviously shot yourself.

Speaker 2: Like, wow. Duh. Wow.

Speaker 1: So they were able to start investigating her and charge her.

But they, at first they weren't really sure like what, Like,

because they were like, what happened to Carrie?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: You know, like, what are we going to charge her with?

So they started looking into everything. And they were able

to assume, because unfortunately, Carrie Farber has never been located.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: Again, there's been no sightings of her. There's been no activity.

She was a single mom who loved her son. She

had like $ 8, 000 in her checking account that was never touched. Yeah.

Like if she ran away, she would have taken that money.

Speaker 2: Right. And I think that she would have made sure.

Or tried to get it at some point. And she didn't.

There was nothing. After he left for work and like

he physically saw her and was like, bye. Right. No

one ever saw anything about her again. Right.

Speaker 1: This was a controversial case in that it's always hard

to prove murder without a body.

Speaker 2: Right. So that was one of those. But they were like,

look at all of this fucking evidence. Right. Right. So

they think that Goyler killed Farver within days of. The

last time that he saw her. Yeah.

Speaker 1: They said that the first text message, hey, do you

want to move in together, was sent by her.

Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Like, she never texted him after that. Wow. Ever.

None of the texts were ever from anyone but... Goyler.

But Goyler. Okay. Right. Yikes.

Speaker 1: Goyler was eventually convicted in 2017. Convicted of, I think

you'll find this interesting, first degree murder.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: Which without a body I think is like very fascinating.

Speaker 2: It's very difficult to do for sure. But it's not impossible. Right.

Because if your surrounding evidence is substantial and it's not

circumstantial evidence that it's actually like solid evidence. yeah like

50 000 fucking emails it is an achievable result for

sure it's just very difficult to do like that's how

crazy this case was that it's like well we don't

even have a body but she's dead and you did

it no nobody convictions in just generally very fascinating are

really tricky to pull off i think a lot of

people like won't even take it on depends on the

evidence it depends on the evidence that's available yeah so

she was convicted of.

Speaker 1: That first degree murder and arson as well, second degree

arson in 2017. And then she got life without parole

and then plus 20 years for the arson.

Speaker 2: I always like, I know it's just like- Plus 20

years for the arson, wow.

Speaker 1: It's legalese and it's like making sure like you have

to prosecute all the charges in case like one gets dismissed.

I totally understand, but it always makes me laugh when

it's like, They were sentenced to like four life sentences

and 15 years.

Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, thank God we got the 15 years

on there. Can I actually start with the 15 years

first and then do the life sentences? That would work

better for me. Yeah, it's like so awkward. So awkward. Wow.

Speaker 1: So.

Krupa was able to move on with his life. It

does seem that, and they go into it more in

the documentary, and it's very interesting that Liz was obviously

in love with him and was afraid to lose him

and did all this to sort of not only vilify Carrie,

but to bring them closer together. Like, you know, she

wasn't just harassing him.

Speaker 2: She was harassing herself. So it's like, we're both being attacked. Here,

hold me. Hold me in your arms. Right, right. You know?

Speaker 1: And she was crazy. So she murdered her romantic rival,

impersonated her, turned her into this like crazy bitch. But

it was her all along. And you killed your own pets.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nuts.

Speaker 1: Krupa does have a girlfriend. Her name is Margie. She

seems like a lovely lady. They still live in Nebraska.

And hopefully he monitors her cell phone usage. He said, quote,

I don't mind watching a movie with a terrible twist,

but I never want that in my life again.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is understandable. I mean, don't blame you. Wild.

Liz remains in jail to this day. I hope that

she will die there.

Speaker 1: And I really hope for Carrie's family, who all of

them are still alive as far as I know. Her

poor mother was very forward in making sure the case

went forward. Like, look for my fucking kid.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I hope that they're able to get answers. Yeah.

You know, she has a son and everything, so that's

so sad. But... Isn't that a crazy catfish in case?

That's wild. That's, yes. Nuts. People do weird things when

they're rejected. For love. Well. When they're rejected, correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we talked about catfish crimes. Well, a catfish crime. Yeah,

not too long ago. Not too long ago. And how

it really is, even when we discussed it today, like

how it really is kind of this term of the

internet age. Yeah, absolutely. But we have also talked about how,

even though that is definitely the case, like people were

catfishing long before the term became popular. Part of just

like the normal parlance. All through history. So I wanted

to look at one of these long ago stories of

a woman who I think you will particularly like. Her

name is Amy Bach. Not to be confused with Amy Bach,

who got caught up in the PVP loan scandal of late.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, there's another Amy Bach who got

charged for... Maybe she's her ancestor. She basically ran a

foundation that claimed... PPP loans that actually I don't think

was a foundation. I think it was just her. Oh,

she was doing fraud. Big time fraud. I see. Big

time fraud. God forbid a woman has hobbies. Different Amy Bach.

Got it, got it, got it. Okay. This Amy Bach

was born in 1859. Okay. Got it. Wait, wait, wait.

Maybe she's a vampire. Maybe. I don't think so, though.

They do not look anything alike. Oh. Yeah, they don't

look anything alike. Also, the 2020 Amy Bach spells her

name A-I-M-E-E. Oh, fancy. Like A-M-E-E. This is AMY. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So Amy Bach was born in May 1859 to Alfred

Bach and Mary Ann Parkinson. Okay. The family lived in Tasmania, Australia. Ooh.

And that was thanks to most of her grandparents being

transported convicts. Nice. So this was, remember, Australia was a

prison colony originally. Yep. So that's kind of how they

ended up there.

Speaker 1: I have a horrible, really quick fact about that that

I learned the other day. I read it in a

book and then was like in a historical fiction was like,

this can't be true.

Speaker 2: And I looked it up and it is.

Speaker 1: So when England was sending prisoners to the penal colony

of Australia, at first they were just kind of like,

let's dump them there. But then they were like, what

land we could colonize? There was kind of a shortage

of female criminals because they were like, all of these

prisoners didn't want to be there and kept trying to

leave the continent. And they were like, no, we need

you to stay there. What gives a man a reason

to stay?

Speaker 2: A woman.

Speaker 1: Well, where are we going to get all these women?

They would go into... whorehouses Yeah. And be like, we're

arresting all of you.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Put them on a boat and send them to Australia.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds about right. Without telling them. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Like some of these women had children and family. They

just sent them over.

Speaker 2: That's surprising? I mean, not really.

Speaker 1: Really, just the fact that it was– I just didn't

know that.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I didn't know that either, but that does

not surprise me at all. It was like the whole–

Not literally at all. The whole brothel? Mm-hmm. Jeez. And

mostly these were places that had deals with police, so

they were like, why are you coming in here? Yeah.

Speaker 1: Like, you know what we're doing. We're giving you a cut,

you know? It's– yeah, crazy. That pissed me off.

Speaker 2: God forbid women have hobbies. I know. So Bach's father

was a photographer. Cool. Who, oh, hold on. My watch

thinks I'm walking for some reason. I accidentally just started

a walking workout. Your heart's pounding. Way to go. See recap.

Thank you. Bach's father was a photographer who brought the

Carte de Viste Visite to Australia, which is basically like,

you know, the size, the little school photos that we

would get that size, the little ones that you could

then trade with people. Yeah, and like put in your wallet.

It's that. Yeah. okay that was a new format and

it was used to like trade with people for like

business reasons or you know whatever it is to be

able to hand out to family members whatever so he's

like So cool. And she was the eldest of four siblings.

There were two others. They had died in infancy. The

family moved from Tasmania to Victoria. And it was there

where Bach's mother was confined to a psychiatric institution due

to mental health issues, including a delusion that she was

Lady Macbeth. Delightful, right? Yeah, they talk about her having

madness and she needed to be confined to this institution.

Now it is believed that it is likely bipolar disorder.

But they, I mean, this is 1800. She's crazy. She's crazy.

She's got demons in her blood. She thinks she's Lady Macbeth.

So she unfortunately passed in 1875. Poor thing. Bach was

described as clever and popular, and she was very much

involved in the arts. She played piano. They talk about

her being like a concert pianist. Wow. Like that level

of like skill.

Speaker 1: Okay, Amy.

Speaker 2: Play that shit. And she was quite a successful actor. Wow. Actress,

I guess. She's an artiste. But she was very good

in like stage. Awesome. Yeah. In 1876, Bach was sent

away to a boarding school in Melbourne at the age

of 17, where she would stay for two years. Wow.

The family was not well off. They were not... A

rich family. And so Bach decided to become a teacher

to help support the household and would actually work for

a decade as the only teacher in Gippsland. Wow. Which

probably would make you think she's very good at her job.

You would think so. But, I mean, she might have been.

But she also, like, called in sick a lot. Oh. Like,

pretty frequently. And it turns out that Bach was... falsifying

the attendance rolls to make it appear that more kids

had attended than actually did and it seems like this

might have been i don't know like they talk about

her getting paid nine pounds a day i think but

it sounds to me like it may have been like

a pay per kid situation yeah because it was discovered

by inspectors as a way to inflate her salary Oh,

I see. By saying there were more kids in attendance.

Speaker 1: Like that you're able to have a full class.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Got it. So I don't know if like you

get like a pound per kid that you're teaching. Yeah.

It's probably attendance. Yeah. Adding more, you get like more

money per day. Oh. Yes. This is just a hint

of all of the things. What a sneaky lady. Bach

also had a shopping habit. Oh, my God, girl. And

she used her status as a teacher to get credit,

much of which she would not pay back. She went

to great lengths to avoid having to pay it. In fact,

even sending letters in her sister Ethel's name claiming not

once but twice that Amy Bach was indeed dead. She's

a rascal. She was not dead, obviously. She's like, I

am dead. I mean, my sister is dead. Oh, my God, Amy.

To like these creditors. Wow. Yeah. So at some point,

this ploy was discovered and Bach was arrested in May 1884,

charged with obtaining goods under false pretenses. During the court proceedings,

they pointed out that her nine pound salary was definitely

not going to be able to like cover the cost

of all of this debt that she's accrued. But Bach

was arguing that insanity ran in her family. Oh, well.

And the court was like, you're right. This isn't your fault. Yeah.

They were just like, oh, God, this is just inherited insanity.

Very much swayed by this argument. And she was dismissed

based on the lack of responsibility for her actions. Wow.

And basically received a year probation. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Essentially for that, yeah. She just totally got away with it. Yeah.

They're like, you're right. The craziness runs in your family. Like,

it's not really your fault. Yeah. Shit. Bach then moved

to New Zealand with her father and his second wife. Okay.

So they leave Australia. They go to New Zealand. But

all was not well in New Zealand. No way. Right?

Bach had a really hard time adjusting to this, like,

living situation. The wife, the second wife, was, like, a

year older than she was.

Speaker 1: Aw.

Speaker 2: So she was living with everybody. It was like her

and her dad and his second wife, who is like

not that much older than she is.

Speaker 1: Oh, God.

Speaker 2: I get the impression that there was like a butting

of heads. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Situation happening. So she

decided instead to get a job as a governess. Okay.

So she could live. Somewhere else, literally. Understandable. Unfortunately, the

job wouldn't last that long. And it was followed hot

on the heels of another charge of obtaining goods under

false pretenses.

Speaker 1: Amy.

Speaker 2: But once again, the court decided that she was not

responsible for her actions. She's like, guys, I'm nuts. I

promise it's in my jeans. I'm loco. I'm like crazy. Yeah.

Bach then moved to Lytleton. Okay. Oh. Oh. She was

taken to court again in Christchurch in 1886. This time,

she received a conviction and was sentenced to one month

hard labor and imprisonment. Almost immediately after her release, Bach

once again began obtaining goods under false pretenses. Girl! On

the other hand, she was using some of this money

that she had obtained to get boots for kids at

the boys' school that she was working at. Aww. You're

going to love this woman, actually. I do love her.

I knew you would. I knew you would. She's just

so mischievous. Bach was back in court in July 1887,

again for obtaining goods under false pretenses. This time she

was sentenced to six months detention at Caversham Industrial School. Whoops.

Where she was offered a job as a teacher. Stop

it right now. Thanks to her good behavior.

Speaker 1: You're not responsible for your actions, but you can definitely

watch over young kids for sure.

Speaker 2: In a prison. Girl, what? Like in an institution. Girl.

But then there was a situation where it was discovered.

So you can write and receive letters when you're in detention. Yeah.

It was discovered through these letters that Bach was planning

an escape.

Speaker 1: Oh.

Speaker 2: Right. Girl, they read those. Via these letters to her aunt. However,

the aunt does not exist. Right. Oh, my God, Amy.

You tricky bitch. She's just an aunt that Amy Bach

has decided to make up and make it up. This

is what I don't get. Why would you make it

appear like you're planning an escape?

Speaker 1: For what?

Speaker 2: I don't know. I think she just wants the drama. Yeah, maybe.

She's just a messy bitch. Maybe. I love her. I'm

team Amy. In January 1888, Bach was released again and

began working as an independent music teacher. Okay. But it

wasn't long before, once again, Bach found herself back in

front of a judge in April 1888. Again, Bach argued

that her kleptomania and madness was inherited from her mother.

But she received two years in prison with the judge saying,

kleptomania is just another name for stealing. Ha ha ha!

He said, let's not split hairs, Amy. Which like, yes.

I kind of love that because I'm like, I mean.

You're not wrong. You're not wrong. And he was like,

I'm not letting you get away. You're trying to make

it sound all fancy by calling it kleptomania. Yeah. You're

just a thief. Yeah, you'd be stealing. Ooh, she's stealing. Yeah.

Following her release, Bach moved to the Banks Peninsula and

began working as a governess yet again. yet again, re-offended

and went before a judge. Oh my god. In April 1889, 1889,

Bach received two concurrent six-month sentences for larceny and obtaining

goods under false pretenses. Okay. Let's catch it up to her.

Oh yeah. On release from that, she started working as

a housekeeper in Dunedin. Okay. Bach then pawned some of

her employer's assets and absconded with the money. Girl. Keep

it together, Amy. She was later caught and taken to court. Yeah.

Where she received three years at a penal colony. Now,

at this point, I'm sure you see the pattern.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Okay. I want to point out, and this is going

to make you love her even more. Every single time

that she was taken to court, she never denied doing

any of this. She's like, yeah, I did it. I'm

just crazy. Every single time she pled guilty, she was like,

I 1,000% did that shit. And I'm so sorry. Yeah,

I think there's only– and I do think we talk

about it in a little bit. There's like one time

where she pleads guilty. But every other time she's like, yeah,

I 100% did that shit. She also, yes, was like

from an underprivileged background.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: But she also a lot of the times– used the

money that she was getting from these crimes she would

give it to like female servants or female nurses that

were like single not making a lot of money and

gave a lot of it away I love her. So

people are like, she might have been like a very,

very early feminist. Yeah. In that way. She was like,

fuck society. Yeah. Very Peter Pan-like. Yeah. Like, you know,

except not as good at it. I think it would

be Robin Hood, not Peter Pan. Not Peter Pan. Robin Hood.

I don't know where Peter Pan came from. Sometimes she

would fly. Yes. Very Peter Pan-like. No. Very Robin Hood-like.

Thank you. I don't know where that came from. No,

you know, childhood hero. I promise I know. They're both men. Yeah.

I promise I know. Sometimes she would wear tights. Yes.

And fly. All green. Feather cap. A crocodile did eat

her hand. This was Australia. Although I'm pretty sure that

Robin Hood is also depicted wearing green. So like. Yeah. Listen,

it's not a big stretch. It's fine. Women can do

two things at once. Oh, gosh. Anyway. So Bach was

released after two years and four months for good behavior. Cool.

And she moved to Timaru in 1892. Okay. There, she

said she was a wealthy tourist who had lost her

wallet and managed to get a one pound loan from

a local principal because she was like, I'm also a teacher,

but I just lost my wallet. I just need a pound. Yeah,

help me. Which was, I think, a lot of money

at that time. I'm sure. Anyway. Soon after, Bach disappeared

for a short period of time before she was arrested

and sentenced to one month in prison. Oh, my God.

Her defense was she was distraught over receiving the news

that her father had died. Oh. Her father was, in fact, alive. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

fully still alive she's like i'm just so distraught my

dad upon her release she connected with the salvation army

and continued stealing some more stuff including a watch that

belonged to her landlady's husband oh which she then pawned

and was arrested for and for that she got six

months in prison she's hilarious Steal in prison. Steal in prison.

I love her. Saying she had inherited a bunch of money. Great.

She didn't have yet. Bach even managed to secure a

75-pound loan saying she was going to, like, buy furniture

for this house that she hadn't bought yet. She also

applied for official membership in the Salvation Army, but they were, like,

word had kind of gotten around at this point. They

were like, girl, you've been to jail a lot. So

they were like, we're not going to deny your application.

We just want to, like, see that you are a

changed person. Right. Like, we kind of want some evidence

that you are a changed person. You're on a trial

period right now. Yeah. Joke's on them because she hadn't

changed at all. And soon attempted to leave town once again. Please.

She was, of course, caught and given jail time, this

time four months hard labor in January 1894. So Bach

landed again in prison in October 1895 for three months. Sheesh.

For all the same shit. Yeah. Okay. So. Amy, you nut.

She's like, this is my life. This is what I'm

good at. You know. Except she wasn't that good at it. No,

she was getting caught. Like, leave Australia. Bach stayed for

a time at the Mount Magdala Catholic Home for Fallen Women.

1901 saw Bach working as a housekeeper with the alias

Miss Sherwin and back to her old tricks of racking

up debt. Uh-huh. Now, unfortunately, Miss Sherwin would die before

she could make good on any of those debts. Oh. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Um bach left for christchurch sorry she just like faked

yeah yeah the fictional character of miss sherwin's oh i

see i was like poor miss sherwin she killed off

i fell right into it yes Now, Bach left for

Christchurch in 1902 under the name Miss Mary Shannon. Cute.

Where she stayed with this guy named Alfred William Buxton. Okay. There,

she obtained money from investors saying she would be buying

a poultry farm that didn't exist. Oh. This is very...

This is why I talked about maternal instincts at the

top of the show. Yeah. A lot of similarities. Yeah, absolutely.

With the buying of property and the things that didn't exist.

Except she wasn't like stealing babies. She's actually kind of

doing it for the good. Yeah. But, you know, a

lot of parallels. That's amazing. Bach was once again arrested, charged,

and convicted, receiving two years hard labor in 1903. Oof.

Sounds awful. She was released early for good behavior and

spent two days at the Samaritan home in Christchurch. In

February 1905, Bach was charged with altering a check, which

is one of the few charges that she actually denied

when she got to court. She's like, how dare you?

Which part of me is– that part– Maybe she really

didn't do it. She really didn't do it. Yeah. She'd

just be like, I'm just nutso and silly. Yeah. Demon

took over my body writing that check. Whoa. Yeah. She

denied doing this, but she was still sentenced to three

years in prison. And– 1907, when she was released, Bach

went back to the Samaritan home before ultimately moving back

to Dunedin, doing little frauds along the way. In 1908,

Bach began working as a housekeeper named Agnes Valance. Love

that name. At Christmas, while the family was away, Bach

went to obtain loans using the family's furniture as collateral. Wow.

And the name Charlotte Skevington. Ooh. A warrant was issued

in January 1909, but Bach had seemingly disappeared at that point. Ooh, goodbye. Okay. Now, well,

up to this point, Bach had been doing a ton

of just, like, I would say small-scale fraud. Yeah. I

would say small-scale fraud. Yeah. And taking on some aliases.

We are about to get into the big catfish piece

of this. Okay. I know you've been waiting for it.

I'm just enjoying. She's hilarious. Yeah. This is the big

catfish piece. So this warrant is issued for this Christmas

theft of furniture. Okay. Uh, She just sold off to

get loans. Sorry, collateral as for loans. That's so funny.

Bach took on the invented identity of Percival Leonard Carroll Redwood,

an affluent male Canterbury sheep farmer. Oh, my God. Fancy.

Speaker 1: I'm like imagining what I feel like he would look like.

Like little white mustache.

Speaker 2: No. No? No. No. What do you think? I mean,

I know because I've seen pictures and that's not what

it is. Let me– hold on. Let me pull– I

can pull up a picture of what she looked like

because she actually didn't do much to change her appearance. Oh,

she would like physically impersonate him? Yes. Well, we'll talk.

We'll talk about it. Oh, yeah. She's an actress. Yeah.

I like forgot. Yeah. I mean, you think that skill

would have like transitioned better? Yeah. For all of the frauds? Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, here's a.

Oh, I see. Aw. Because really in these days it

didn't take much but like a short haircut to be like,

that's a man. Yeah. Yeah. She does look like a

beautiful lesbian. I don't even think she was a lesbian, truthfully. Well,

I know, but she just looks like, because she's wearing

like cute little tweed jacket. Yeah. I mean, like... Yeah,

I would buy that's a dude.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 2: Anyway. So... Oh, here's an even... Oh, wow. Yeah. She's

showing me pictures of her dressed up as this dude. Yes.

It looks like a dude. Yes. Like, if I saw

that picture, like, in a history book or something, I'd

be like, yeah, a guy. Sure. Right? Wow. So, Percy,

as she was going by now, Mr. Percy, was staying

at a boarding house in Dunedin where he became incredibly

popular and seen as very kind and affable.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Percy then left for the South Otago Coast. And it

was there where he met Agnes Ottaway, who also went

by Nessie. Uh-huh. And the two had a little bit

of a romance. Yum. Very, very romantic. Now, Nessie was

the daughter of an incredibly prominent landlady who ran a large,

well-respected guest house named Albion House. Like, it was a

huge deal. Ooh. Fancy. Perfect place for Lord Percival. Percy

and Nessie seemed to be a match made in heaven,

and his identity was substantiated thanks to letters from Redwood

family attorneys in addition to, like, some other loans and

stuff that he was able to get. Okay. Right. Things

were going so well that Percy and Nessie decided to

get married. Oh, my God. Wow. Crikey. In New Zealand. Yeah. Oh, wow. Whatever. Racist.

Speaker 1: I forgot they were in Australia.

Speaker 2: Girl, I clocked it. Don't worry. I fucking clocked it.

In April 1909, Percy and Nessie were wed at a

huge wedding.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: They talk about it being this very extravagant ordeal with

200 people in attendance. There was, however, a... Big piece

missing from the wedding.

Speaker 1: Oh, dear.

Speaker 2: And that was literally any person from the Redwood family. Hmm.

Although Percy insisted his family would be there, at the

last minute he said that he had received some letters

from his family that they would not be able to attend, unfortunately. See,

that doesn't work so good without phones. Because, like, why

didn't you tell us you received a letter? It just

came this morning. That's stupid. I just got it this morning. Whatever.

Took two weeks to get here. Yeah. That's convenient. So

they get married. They go on. They have the ceremony.

They have a big party. All good. The next day,

Nessie's family confronted Percy about like his family's lack of attendance,

as well as questions that they had about his finances.

They had kind of started pouring over the finances and

the loans that he had been taking out. And they're

kind of like, what is happening here? He was not

able to provide any satisfactory answers. So they gave Percy

a week to pay his debts or there would not

be a honeymoon. Oh, wow. For he and his new bride. Oh, dang. Okay.

He better get serious. Yeah. The family. So he's trying

to figure out how to like, well, he as in

Amy Bach, the woman, is trying to figure out how

to deal with this. In the meantime, Nessie's family did

a little more digging and the they weren't able to

find any sort of like family history, like Redwood family history.

Big red flag. So they decided to tip off police. Nice. Now,

Bach had become so notorious in the area that one

of the policemen, they went and described what was happening.

The policeman was like, that sounds awfully familiar. Oh my God.

And had this hunch, pulls a file photo they have

of Amy Bach and is like, is this the man?

Is this your card? Yeah. And they confirmed, oh, my God,

this is the same person. This is Amy. Except he

goes by Percy.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: But actually, that's the moment.

Speaker 1: I'm just imagining, like, even though, like, she didn't put

on facial hair or anything, I'm just imagining, like. A

picture of a fancy lady and they're like, why are

you showing us this? And he just like slides a

little mustache over and they're like, oh, that's Percy.

Speaker 2: Which is even more wild because she didn't look that

different from, it was literally like swapping a dress for trousers.

You know what I mean?

Speaker 1: Which honestly is kind of smart because the more stuff

you put on, the more likely it is for something

to go wrong.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And obviously, this is a time period where there

was not a lot of premarital sex happening. Right.

Speaker 1: That's what I was saying was I was like, hmm.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a lot of premarital sex happening. So

it's not like there would be a chance to discover

the lack of a penis. Nessie didn't know. No. Nobody knew. Okay.

Nobody knew. I wasn't sure if she was like kind

of in on it or not.

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 2: Okay. Nobody knew. Wow. They were so shocked. They talk

about her showing– Nessie showing up in court later like

pale and sickly because for the first time she was

seeing this person that she thought was her husband that

she had fallen in love with. A lady. Was actually

this lady named Amy Bach and they were just like

so shocked. It's scandalous. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, the family

was shocked to discover that Pursley was actually a woman

named Amy Bach. But Nessie's dad was like, well, it

could have been worse. Which I'm like, you're not wrong. Like,

it could have been worse. Yeah, she could have taken

everything out from under you. Could have been an abusive man.

Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, absolutely. Like, at least my daughter had a

nice time. And he didn't get her pregnant because he

can't because he doesn't have a penis.

Speaker 2: Right. You know what? Today's a win. Yeah, yeah. So

she was brought to court to face charges of obtaining

by false pretenses for the Christmas furniture loan thing. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

And making a false declaration under the Marriage Act. Wow.

Bach pled guilty to all charges and was sentenced to

two years hard labor. The courts also declared Bach a, quote,

habitual criminal, which meant that she would stay in prison

until the governor decided that she was no longer a

threat to public. This was early preventative sentencing. Yes.

Speaker 1: I've seen stuff like that in Australia before.

Speaker 2: They have it in a lot in Australia, in New Zealand,

in the UK. They do that sometimes where it's like–

Very interesting. If you reoffend so many times, it's like, okay, well,

you're going to stay until we think that you're– Right.

We're not going to give you a definitive sentence just

until we think you're ready. Yeah. Which is kind of

like parole here, but kind of not. Yeah. Anyway, this

was also the, Amy Bach was also the second woman

to be given that distinction of habitual criminal. She's only

the second one in history. Wow. in New Zealand history. Fancy.

Now by this time, Bach had received 13 total convictions

and spent a total of 16 years and two months

in prison. Oh my gosh. Doesn't sound as much when

you're breaking it into like two and three month chunks. Right,

but all together?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Oh my God. That's a long time. Following Bach's conviction,

Nessie had to petition the Supreme Court to annul the

marriage and Which is something that Bach didn't argue.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: She didn't, like, contest it. The court hearing was essentially

just a legal record of the illegitimate marriage. They were like,

we're going to help you. No, they literally went to

the court and the court was like, I mean, obviously

this– it was like, obviously this marriage doesn't count. Right. But, like,

we have to write it in to make it part

of the legal record. Yeah. And everyone basically just moved

on with their lives. Yeah. And again, like they historians

now are like, we don't we don't think this was like.

a secret lesbian relationship because it didn't appear that they...

Although he... Amy Bach had wooed this person, right? It's

not like they were sneaking off into the bushes. No.

Speaker 1: Especially because she's high society. I'm sure they were being

watched all the time.

Speaker 2: And she legitimately did not know that Percy was a

woman in disguise. Poor girl. And they truly think it

was just for financial gain. Right. Essentially. They don't think

that she had any intention of living out her life.

Speaker 1: Why?

Speaker 2: Why would you do that? Yeah. Now, she goes to jail.

Once again, Bach was noted for her good behavior in

prison and was released in February 1912. She got various

jobs afterwards at a retirement home and as a housemaid

and assisting teachers in local schools. Wow. I mean, she

had teaching experience. Okay. She did eventually marry a Swedish

immigrant named Charles Kristofferson, but Bach was so much in

debt that the marriage failed after a year. He was like,

I can't take how much debt you have. Oh, my God.

Bach would land back in the court in 1917 for

fraud charges once again. But this time, she only received

a fine. She would fly under the radar for another

14 years until 1931, when at the age of 71,

Bach appeared for five charges of obtaining under false pretenses.

I just love her. All of which she pled guilty to.

And received two years probation.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Bach died in August 1943 in Auckland, New Zealand.

He lost a man. But what a life. What a life.

This is such an interesting story. And it is like

an early catfish posing as this man. Like, I thought

you were going to say when you were like, oh,

she's impersonating this guy. I'm like, through letters. No. No. Well,

that's the other thing. She did that a lot. Yeah. Like, oh,

look at this letter my aunt sent me. Turns out

my dad's dead.

Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she's pretending to be this lord

and she's going to extort money.

Speaker 2: Oh, no. She's like, hello. I'm John Wayne. My name

is Percy. Well, and I feel like with a with

a name like that, you could probably get away with

being a little bit of a dandy. Yeah. You know

what I mean? Like, that wasn't that unusual. That's probably

why the dad was so happy. Yeah. This one's not

going to ravage my daughter. But he was a sheep farmer.

So like... Rugged. Yeah, but he wasn't. He's a little

bit of a dandy. He's like, I inherited it. Yeah.

It was my daddy's farm. Yeah. So that is the

story of Amy Bach. Oh my God. Living fucking legend.

I love her. Well, she's not living anymore, but fucking legend.

We literally lost a baddie. Love Amy Bach. R.I.P. Queen.

You would have loved Catfish. I don't have to tell

you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's

a depression.

Speaker 1: Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job.

Speaker 2: The dollar buys a nickel's worth. Bank. All right, Rachel,

that has been our episode. Do you have any final

thoughts before we close out?

Speaker 1: I just want, you know those questions, like if you

could have dinner with anyone living or dead, I want

to have dinner with Amy.

Speaker 2: Amy Bach. Girl, tell me about your exploits. I'm sure

there's a bunch that we don't know about. The 1800s

Amy Bach, not the 2020 Amy Bach. Yeah, no, fuck

that girl. Not the PPP Amy Bach. No, no, no,

not that one. I want the historical one. It would

be interesting. So fun.

Speaker 1: Very like i feel bad for nessie and everything but

it seems like mostly it was just financial a lot

of this was very harmless yeah um just kind of

silly yeah you know obviously there are victims and people

stealing and frauding and things.

Speaker 2: But also like she was taking out money and giving

it to like underprivileged kids single women nurses who weren't

making a lot of money like the lower classes of

society i'm team amy how can you be real mad

at that i can't you can't If you enjoyed this episode,

you can find more just like this at badtastepodcast.com. Our

sound and editing is by Tiff Fullman. Our music is

by Jason Zakrzewski, the Enigma. This has been the Bad

Taste Crime Podcast. We will see you in two weeks. Goodbye. Bye.

It was as if a wave of evil washed over

this town. in some form or another.