Episode 231 - You Lost Me With the Stonks

They say honesty is the best policy, but where's the fun in that? This week, we’re diving headfirst into the wildly unhinged world of white-collar wizardry, fake credentials, and people who decided that "fake it 'til you make it" is a lifelong career path. Grab your spreadsheets and your most skeptical side-eye—things are about to get legally questionable.

Research links below!

Britannica - "The Craziest Cam? Gregor MacGregor Creates His Own Country"
Historic UK - "Gregor MacGregor, Prince of Poyais"
Radical Tea Towel - "Gregor MacGregor: The most absurd radical of the 19th century"
BBC - "The conman who pulled off history's most audacious scam"
History Today - "Gregor MacGregor, the Prince of Poyais"
Bruce Wilson Author - "Gregor MacGregor and the Poyais Scam"

Vanity Fair - "How Sarma Melngailis, Queen of Vegan Cuisine, Became a Runaway Fugitive"
Eater - "Raw Food Star Fugitive Sarma Melngailis Pleads Guilty to Fraud and Theft"
Oxygen - "Why Was A Dominos Pizza So Important In Tracking Down Sharma Melngailis From 'BadVegan'?"
The Brooklyn District Attorney's Office - "Owner of Vegan Food Business and her Husband Indicted for Allegedly Stealing from Employees, Defrauding Investors, not Paying Taxes"
Parade - "How Bad Vegan Sarma Melngailis' Affair With Her Lawyer May Have Landed Her In Jail"

Speaker 1: What they discovered upon their arrival was almost unspeakable. The

dead won't bother you. It's the living you gotta worry about.

If I couldn't keep them there with me whole, at

least I felt that I could keep their skeletons. Hello

and welcome to the Bad Taste Crime Podcast. I'm Vicki.

I'm Rachel. We are back again. We're back. For another

week of crime talk. Tell your friends. Tell your mom.

How have you been, Miss Rachel? I've been super good.

We're reaching the end of summer. Yes. Volleyball, as we

record this, for me, volleyball is almost over. And so

that kind of marks the end of summer for me.

You put away.

Speaker 2: Your volleyball gear and your wardrobe like, shifts 360 degrees

to your fall wardrobe.

Speaker 1: Well no it's officially fall because i also play volleyball

in the winter but um well i didn't know that

yeah so it's like the fall volleyball wardrobe which is

exactly the same so it just goes in a circle

yeah Um, because the problem is, okay, so we play in,

in the winter, I play at a middle school. Oh, yeah,

that's right. Because it's like a district, park district league. Cool.

But the school will have the heat on for the winter.

And it gets so fucking hot in those gyms. It is. Yeah,

it's so hot. Oh, no. So yeah, that's kind of

innocent in a similar way to like the kids going

back to school. That's like my mark of the end

of the summer. Yeah. because it happens about the same

time as as we record this i have i think

a week or two left oh.

Speaker 2: That's kind of a bummer yeah do you feel sad

when like you don't get to play.

Speaker 1: Um yes and no because it's only like a month

until winter starts okay oh that's not i play with

a lot of the same people in the winter so so.

Speaker 2: It's like a little break yeah that makes sense.

Speaker 1: Yeah yeah Yeah, that's why when AJ was talking about

going kayaking, I was like, oh, that'll be good because

I won't be sore for volleyball. Right. Because I won't

have it in like the month that he's looking at

going kayaking. I was like, oh, yeah, that'll be good.

And then I won't be sore and have to play

through the sore. Sore. Because that's how I big time

injured myself last year. Yeah, yup. And I had that

pulled muscle in my leg for like a month and

a half, two months or whatever. Limping around. I looked

very cool with a limp though. No, I just couldn't.

walk quickly or far. It was crazy. Anyway, I also

couldn't sleep on my side. That was the whole thing.

That's I have to sleep on my side. It was

it was the way I couldn't roll over in bed.

Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: That was the other thing I had to I did. Like,

if I was if I was fully horizontal, I couldn't

roll over because you use your your hip and your

thigh muscles. Yeah, I do that. And it was those

that I was having. You'd have to kill me. Yeah,

I had to physically sit up and then roll over

and then lay back down. You know what I'm saying? Nope. Yeah,

it was. I had to sleep in like a coffin.

Two or three months. That's what the. It sucked.

Speaker 2: That sounds like ass.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and I wasn't sleeping well either. Like

that was the other thing too. It was a whole thing.

That was last year though. Those are last year problems.

Speaker 2: That's a bummer.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, we're here to talk about crime, not about

volleyball and my various injuries. Well, I think it's a

crime that you couldn't roll over in bed. Girl, you

and me both. It was– I roll around.

Speaker 2: Like a Costco hot dog.

Speaker 1: It was an adventure. It was an adventure. And I

had nobody to bitch to about it because, you know,

hashtag independent lady. You know. You could have called me.

I would have gently rotated you in bed. Yeah. You

would drive half an hour to come roll me over.

Speaker 2: Every time.

Speaker 1: And then you'd get home and I'd be like, I

need another one. I'd be like, on my way, Vicky.

If this is your first time listening, a special hello

to you. Special hello. We are going to head over

to the newsroom. Let's go there. Let's go. Today we

had 15 homicides and 63 violent crimes as if that's

the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad,

worse than bad. Our news comes from Fresno, California. Oh.

So this is, it takes place at a business called

Griffles Biomat U.S. Plasma Center.

Speaker 2: Griffles sounds like a little animal character.

Speaker 1: A griffle? A griffle. It's like a baby griffin? Yeah. Anyway.

They get a call about 7 o'clock in the morning

saying that the employees were suspicious that somebody might have

been in the attic of the business. So they went

and they looked, couldn't find anything. Then they get another

call around 9. Oh, okay. That saying that there was

a patient in the plasma center that heard noises coming

from within the wall and somehow saw eyes peering out

at them. Oh, no. So they went back and turns

out there was a guy in the wall. So they

tried to get him to come out. He was like throwing. No.

Throwing metal objects at them. And then they used pepper

balls on him and he came out. To their surprise,

he was completely naked. Oh, nice. So he was arrested.

There's no rules in the law. In the process of this,

he also damaged the water main. And so it flooded

the lobby and it's in a strip mall and the

rest of the businesses had to be evacuated because they

were worried about potential flooding in the other businesses. But

he was arrested and then he was taken to... The

hospital unclear of if he's been charged with anything or

what the deal is. But oh, my God. So I

think about these things and I'm like. I might have

a hard work day, but it's not naked man hiding

in my walls. That's so true. Flooding my office. You

know what I mean? Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: That's like the episode of Bob's Burgers where he's on

the wall.

Speaker 1: Oh, yes. I love that episode. I think about that

one frequently. The Koopakochi light. Yep. And he like turns

it into the shining. Yeah. That was so funny. Yeah,

I know. Maybe that guy had just watched that episode.

Just like, did he have a nightlight? If you think

you are having a bad day, it's not as bad.

It's not as bad. I saw something somewhere that was like,

whenever you're having a bad day at work, Just remember

that somebody was at Chernobyl and that was their workday.

And I was like, damn. That's true. That's like the

worst workday they probably ever had was when Chernobyl. Anyway.

total aside no but for sure a little perspective for

us working folk you know it helps yeah.

Speaker 2: So i always look at my two kids and i'm

like this could be 10 it's true like oh my

god i look at my no kids and be like

this could be some.

Speaker 1: See see i serve as a living warning yeah no

they're great you and all of my other friends that

have kids truthfully i'm like thanks guys free birth control

yeah We are going to move on to Netflix and Kill.

This week is an HBO and Kill. We are talking

about Monsters of God, which we kind of talked about

off the show a little bit. So it is as

we record, there are two episodes out. So it's very

early on. I'm not sure how many total, probably in

the six to eight range. Yeah, I thought it was

like a limited. Yeah, maybe four. It's possible it's four.

I'm not sure yet, though, because it's not all the

way out. But I have watched the first two episodes.

So it is a documentary series on HBO. Executive produced

by Eric Goode. And if you are familiar with Eric Goode,

he also did Tiger King. Yes. He also did Chimp Crazy. Yes.

I was going to say, later when we get to

my topic, he will be involved. Oh, really? Oh, funny.

I really like him. Yeah, I do too. I really

like him a lot. He does great work. He does

great work. He is also like... It's interesting because all

three of those documentaries, right? Tiger King, Chim Crazy, and

now Monsters of God, which is the newest one, all

have to deal with the exotic animal trade and sort

of how it... functions, the people involved in it, specifically

in the US. And he is also very good about...

making these connections so that he can get right in

and interview people and follow them around in their lives.

Speaker 2: They're all very like intimate.

Speaker 1: Yes. Which I like. And he himself has talked I

think in each one that he is also involved not

I wouldn't not in like the exotic illegal animal trade. Right.

But I think he is if I remember correctly he

is also a collector of like reptiles. Right.

Speaker 2: Which is cool because like you can tell he cares

about the animals.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: And it gives him these inns.

Speaker 1: Right. To go and talk to people. Exactly. So Monsters

of God is specifically it's based on the nonfiction book

called The Lizard King. The true crimes and passions of

the world's greatest reptile smugglers. And it is about the

exotic reptile trade and smuggling business. It so far has been.

really interesting. And again, he is able to interview these

big players that by this point have a lot of

them have gone to jail and prison for various things.

This one was really interesting because so this morning, I

watched the new episode, the first episode had to do

with essentially the fathers of the exotic reptile trade in

the United States, which is fucking wild second one has

to do with the sort of intersection of the exotic

reptile and animal trade and drugs. Nice. Because like a

segue there, especially when you were talking about reptiles, there

is this heavy intersection with cocaine. Oh yeah. Adrenaline junkie.

I see. I see. And a lot of it half

has to do with the ways that you were able

to get reptiles specifically into the country and, which is

in areas like Florida, where also, you know, 80s and 90s,

that was like a big in for the cocaine trade.

So anyway, so far it's been really interesting. Again, it's

always a cast of characters. This one I thought was

cool because they... Okay, so did you watch Chimp Crazy? Yes. The...

gentleman that in that documentary, it's about chimps. If you

haven't seen it, I literally just watched it again for

like the third time last week. It's so good. Interesting. Yucky.

It's gross, but it's real good. Yeah, it's really good.

They use because he got so much such a big

reputation from Tiger King, especially in the exotic animal community.

He's not necessarily the most beloved person. Yeah. He hired

a proxy director. Oh, For that film. Clever. For Chimp Crazy. Yeah.

And that was the guy who was going and interviewing

Tanya and interviewing these people who had monkeys. He was

the guy who like spent, he was a clown. He's

a clown by trade. He did some like stuff with

Ringling Brothers and now he does like clowning. He is

in this documentary because he's also involved– if you remember,

he talks about being involved specifically with reptiles. Right. And

for going to prison with something related to, like, the

reptile trade. Oh, my God. Yeah. So he– all of

a sudden I was watching this one that just came

out about sort of the intersection of exotic animal trade

and drugs. Yeah. He's fucking in it. I had to reverse.

I was like, wait a second. I know that guy.

His name is Dwayne something. What? But he is also

in it talking about– he had experience with a lot

of these guys that– That's funny. They're interviewing for this documentary. Oh,

my God. That's so weird. A little throwback to that.

I don't think– you know, in both Tiger King and

Chimp Crazy, he was sort of following individual peoples and

individual facilities. And this is more about the general story.

So I do not believe there is going to be

some sort of gotcha. Like, there always tended to be

some big development that was like happening, happened to happen

on camera. You know, Tanya was being investigated by PETA

and in the midst of this court case and hiding,

you know, hiding monkeys like hiding chimps you know happening

on camera while she was being interviewed for a documentary

fucking lady i know she's she's kind of i feel

a bit bad for her only because i think there

is something like wrong mentally i agree wrong that she

needs fucking therapy for yeah that piece of it and

clearly like the chimps and the exotic animals are a

fill in for something else.

Speaker 2: There's some monkey business going on there for.

Speaker 1: Sure but same thing with joe exotic like he was

on the property as they're being investigated and as they

come and take the tigers and joe gets arrested and

like all of that i'm never gonna financially yeah i

will never financially recover from this yeah so i don't

think there's gonna be that kind of a moment because

this is more about the history of the exotic animal

trade right but There's a potential. Still. Very interesting. Very interesting.

I'm really enjoying it. I will watch anything that he does. Yes.

He is also a good guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like,

he's not an asshole. And I hope, I mean, I

hope nothing comes out. He's one of those guys that

I'm like, please don't let anything ever come out about

him because I'd be really, really bummed out. It's also

produced by A24, which, you know, I'm a big fan of. Love. Yes. Anyway,

it is called Monsters of God. By the time this

episode comes out, all... I believe it's five episodes it

says here. There's two out currently. There's five episodes. All

five should be out, I think, by... Go watch it

right now. Yeah. This is that part of the show

where we say content may not be appropriate for all listeners.

It may not. This week, so... The topic today is

inspired by a suggestion and friend of the show and

former guest, my mom, Eileen, who is beloved. Big fan. Yes.

Love her. So she had brought up to me this

idea of possibly talking about crimes that were named after somebody, right? Ooh.

And she thought of this specifically in the concept of

a like a Ponzi scheme is named after a guy, Mr. Ponzi.

I forget. Yeah, I forget. I don't know what his

name is. I almost looked into that, but I decided

to go a little different way.

Speaker 2: But I immediately thought of Amber Alert.

Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. Yeah. She kind of said, well, what

about this? And I looked into it. Because there's not

like a John Arson out there, right? You know, or

like Benjamin Robbery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my drag king name. Yeah,

Chris Murder. For that kind of stuff. A lot of

times when it is something being named after a person,

it tends to be a financial or fraud crime. Oh, so.

And of course, you know, I love a white collar.

I was like, oh, of course. Yeah. And we haven't

done one in a while. We've done a lot of

murder and murder adjacent. Yes. A lot of death. Yes. Yeah,

you always do your thing. You know, this may not

be appropriate for all listeners. I'm like, actually, this one's

not too bad. Yeah, for sure. This one is not

too bad today. Because we are talking about fraud. Yes.

And I wanted to talk about the man who attempted

to pull off arguably one of the most absurd scams

of the 19th century. I love weird scams. Yeah. His

name is Gregor McGregor.

Speaker 2: I mean, you've got to do something crazy with a

name like that. You're either going to get into professional

wrestling or you have to be like a news anchor.

Speaker 1: You know? Yes. I'm Gregor McGregor with weather. So we

are going to go way, way back. McGregor was born

in 1786. Oh, wow. Yeah, way back. Oh, this is

an oldie. On Christmas Eve. On the shores of Scotland.

No way. Yeah. He was part– Now, let me ask you,

how much European history do you know?

Speaker 3: A lot.

Speaker 1: I mean, like a lot, a lot? Like a lot.

Because this goes into a lot of things. I'm autistic.

He was, no. No way.

Speaker 2: Earlier I saw a train and I was like, that's

pretty cool.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: But yeah, history is one of my special interests.

Speaker 1: So he was part of Clan McGregor, which has its

own like checkered history. Apparently. Checkered.

Speaker 2: Because it's like tartan. The pattern.

Speaker 1: I mean. It's checkered.

Speaker 2: That's funny.

Speaker 1: I would not compare checkered and tartan. Well, tartan is checkered. No.

It's like the stripes. Yeah, but that's more plaid than

a check.

Speaker 2: Okay, Vicky. I'm just saying. Which one of us is

12% Scottish?

Speaker 1: Okay, it's me, bitch.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Which one of us is into fabric arts, Rachel? It's me, bitch.

Speaker 2: We're going to pause the podcast.

Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to go have a fist fight. You'll

know which one of us won by whose voice you

hear first. Good brawl. Good brawl. You'd lay me out. Probably.

I'm kind of a brick wall. So apparently members of

the McGregor clan were involved in the Jacobite risings in

the 1700s. Yes. And McGregor would say that one of

his ancestors survived the Darien scheme of the late 1600s. Oh.

Which had to do with this attempt to colonize modern

day Panama. Uh-huh. These are like... Again, I'm not going

into it. These are very European history things. For sure.

There isn't too much about his childhood. His father worked

as a captain for the East India Company and the

family was Roman Catholic. That's kind of the gist. Where

were they going? Roman Catholic. They're roaming around. So silly.

Got that out of your system now? No. His father

died in 1794. I was like, wow, he lived so long.

At 400 years old. And he and his two sisters

were primarily raised by his mother and various family members.

McGregor potentially studied at the University of Edinburgh, although records

have not survived to substantiate this, they have said, yeah,

that probably happened based on his background and stuff. But

they just, I mean, you're talking about the 1700s, early 1800s.

That's the thing with these old cases. Sometimes you just

kind of have to take it like, okay, probably. The

other thing is he may have studied there, but he

didn't receive a degree. So they might not have kept

those records because a degree was not earned. Okay. That's

the other thing. Yeah. Makes sense. When he was 16,

McGregor joined the British Army in 1803. This was like

the youngest age that you were able to join the

army at at that time. Yes. Now... Like I said,

we can get really deep into European history here. Yeah.

But honestly, this is already a very long story for

just what I wanted to cover. So I had to

cut out a lot. Understandable. And I'm just going to

kind of hit the highlights, right? Do it. About the

time that he joined the military was around the time

that the Napoleonic Wars started up. And while he served,

McGregor met Maria Bowater, who was the daughter of a

Royal Navy Admiral. And she was like related to all

these other high up people in the military. Very much so.

She's fancy. The two got married in June 1805 and

settled in London. Okay. McGregor then made his way to

Portugal as part of the Peninsular War. By 1810, McGregor had,

quote unquote, earned the rank of major. Oh. Which I

want to talk about here because at that time, you

could essentially buy a commission. So if you didn't want

to wait the amount of time to earn a rank

in the military, you could be like, You know, here's

200 pounds. I'm just going to buy my way up

to commander.

Speaker 2: That's what all of these like sons of fancy lords

would do because it was seen as very like. fancy

and high society to have a title but like who

wants to get their hands dirty with all that.

Speaker 1: Blood exactly i was like really you could just buy

oh you sure could you sure could yeah so that's

what he did quite the thing essentially that's why i

say you know quote unquote earned what does that mean

oh i see i see because he he bought his

way up essentially what a puss but he was having

a disagreement with another superior officer which prompted him to

ask and request for a discharge from the military and

he was like i'm fucking out He officially retired from

British military service in May 1810. Now, at this point, MacGregor,

who is now 23, he returned to Britain. He settled

into this house in Edinburgh. Then he went on to

attempt to sort of establish himself in British high society.

He really was like wanting the social airs and graces

and to be with all these lords and ladies. Oh,

rubbing elbows. Exactly. Exactly. Grey Poupon. He attempted to use

the title of Colonel on a regular basis. He wanted

people to call him Colonel McGregor. Oh. And he went

around town in these like fancy multicolor coaches. Oh, God.

But it did not catapult him into the high status

he desired. His coaches were so fancy. Look at the rainbow.

It's fancy. Yes. That's it. So McGregor went back to London,

where he claimed that he was Sir Gregor McGregor, currently

serving chieftain to the clan McGregor, which was a claim

that had zero substance.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: He's like, I'm the heir apparent, you know, I am

the current chieftain of my McGregor clan. None of that

means anything. Well, yeah, no. But apparently, this was enough

to sort of give him credibility. Because like, oh, sir,

Gregor McGregor. Yeah. Come right in. Well, the McGregor clan, too,

was notable. Like, people knew them. Yep. So it was

enough for them to be like, okay, maybe he's like,

you know. His wife, Maria, died in 1811. Aw. And

his meal ticket sort of vanished. She was the one

who was like she had money. The lifestyle. Yeah. She

had all the money. That's unfortunate. Thinking that it would

result in some celebrity, McGregor decided exploring the new world

and returning a hero was like the way to go.

This was something that was happening a lot at the time.

A lot of people were going to try to invest

their time into South America specifically because there was a

lot of– Free, untouched jungle. Yes.

Speaker 2: Yes, there are people living there, but.

Speaker 1: Who's to say? We're not talking about them.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: So he sold his small Scottish estate and he left

for South America. Okay. Now there's quite a few adventures

that he does around South America during this time that

I'm not going to go into. Right. He was heavily

involved with the battles for Venezuelan independence. Okay. And like

served in the military there for Venezuela. Dang. And kind

of– but like– There were also a lot of missteps

in a lot of these things because, again, he's always–

He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb. He's always– well,

everything with him seems like it has an end goal

of– I want to be famous. Famous, well-liked, accepted into

a higher society, including with, like, the military service stuff. Like,

he very much was obsessed with, like, rank and the uniforms.

He was one. They talk about... In his– what do

you want to call it? Like battalions. Okay. He had

a rule that like you weren't allowed to step out

of your tent if you weren't in full uniform. Oh,

my God. Yeah. So he like kind of became obsessed

with that. He's very much like, I want the titles.

I want the glory. He's like the Jim Gunn of

this war. Yeah. Make it work. Yeah. So he does

all this stuff in– South America. Okay. But just know,

in this time that he's there, he gets married to

Josefa Antonio Andrea Aristeguita Ilavera, who was a cousin to–

I know. Cousin to Simone Bolivar. Oh, uh-huh. Who I'm

sure you are familiar with. He was involved rather unsuccessfully

in many South American wars and conflicts, but he was

seen as somewhat of a celebrity and a war hero. Uh-huh.

Who's accused of piracy. He essentially took over Amelia Island

that's like off the coast of Florida. Yeah. In this

whole thing. Yeah. He just, like, takes over this island.

It becomes known as the Amelia Island Affair, if you

ever want to look into it. He did some more

stuff for Venezuela, declared himself His Majesty the Inca of

New Granada.

Speaker 2: Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 1: And then essentially comes back and is sort of rejected

somewhat by high society. He sort of kills off any

political clout that he has. But he is still very

much considered, like, a war hero. Yeah. Like, there's... It's

interesting in the story, it seems like the public at

the time will hold these two ideas. Right.

Speaker 2: Completely separately. No, he can't come to the party, but

he sure did shoot some people successfully.

Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Very much so. Very much so. But all

of this is very, it's very interesting, but very long.

So I would say if military history is your jam,

definitely look into it. Because it is like kind of,

some of the shit is like kind of crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

What a life. He's a dude for sure. What I

really wanted to focus in on for this story is

the Poyais scheme. Okay. So in April 1820, McGregor takes

up court with King Frederick Augustus of the Mosquito Coast,

which is this area off the coast of eastern Nicaragua

and southeastern Honduras that's sort of just like a stretch

of land along the coast. Now, at that point in time,

it was largely under the British Empire, and everybody there

was very anti-Spanish rule. Yes. They were like, no Spaniards

at all. Get out of here. Many of the area

chieftains were crowned kings by the British Empire, mainly so

that they could say the area was under mosquito sovereignty

and thus avoid any Spanish claims to the land. But

it was mostly under British rule. Right, right, right. Still,

like it was still under the British Empire. Yeah. So

while he was hanging around with King Frederick Augustus, the

king signed a document giving McGregor 8 million acres of

mosquito territory in exchange for rum and jewelry.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: This is where all the trouble starts. No way. Sounds great.

While the land was beautiful, it was this beautiful land,

it was not great for holding livestock or any sort

of like cultivation. Right. It's not meant for that. Not

good soil. Definitely not. McGregor begins calling this area the

country of Poyais. Upon receiving these huge tracts of land,

McGregor returns to London in mid-1821. He's calling himself the

cacique of Poyais or the prince of Poyais. Cacique is

Spanish for king. Yes. Or a term they used for

prince in that area. Yeah. Saying that he had been

granted the title by the Mosquito King himself. Oh. This

was a lie. Right. Of course. No.

Speaker 2: This was all a lie.

Speaker 1: He made that up. Yes, definitely. So there were quite

a few failures under his belt, but much of English

society only knew him as a war hero. This is

what I'm saying. Like he had a lot of shit,

but a lot of people were like, no, he's this

war hero. That's kind of how we remember him. him. Right.

So it added credibility to him being like, I'm the

cacique of Poyais. Yeah, they're like, sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2: That could probably be true.

Speaker 1: This added to the fact that Latin America at that

time had been in... conflict for a long time and

there were governments that started and ended all the time

and this happened quite like very frequently you kind of.

Speaker 2: Happened upon it at an opportune moment in history where

it's like that could be true and that's.

Speaker 1: A lot of this like there's a lot of the

timing of things that happens to just be the right

time in history and For him to be doing this.

And he's just like failing upward constantly. Yeah, love it. Constantly.

Hell yeah. Yeah. So this claim that he has come

back and was the Prince of Poyais was like not

a stretch. They're like, sure. Yeah. They're like, yeah, plausible.

Speaker 2: I'll buy that.

Speaker 1: These claims launched him into high status and he started

getting invited to dinners and events like he always wanted. Wonderful.

He was being treated with this deference. Like, yes. So

this was also at the same time that King George

IV was ascending to the throne and And McGregor said

that he was back in London for the coronation and

to obtain investments and immigrants for Poyais. Okay. So he's like,

I've got this new country. I need people. Yeah. To

come help me out. Okay. Okay. So... He billed Poies

as a relatively established country, saying that it had a

democratic system of government with civil service and a basic military.

And if someone sounded interested in moving there, McGregor would

show him a proclamation that he had issued to the Poiesians. people,

saying that he was off to seek investors and colonists,

and he named Brigadier General George Woodbine as the vice

cacique in his absence. Okay. So he's like, here's what

I gave to the people of Poyais to be like, yes,

I am your cacique right now. I am off to

go bring investment, bring money, bring immigrants. Right. to the

country to really revitalize it. This is when he released.

There is absolutely zero evidence that this was actually distributed

on the Mosquito Coast at all. He just like made

it up. They'd be like, who is this guy? Yeah.

We have a prince? Yeah. Yep. I didn't vote for him. Yeah, basically.

And so the Poirier scheme begins. Oh, dear. This is

the very beginning. McGregor fabricated a parliament and various constitutional arrangements.

He creates this banking system. He literally is whole cloth

creating a system of government that has all of the

trappings of a normal government system and economy. Yeah. Just

creating it out of nothing. Yeah. To have the appearance

of this country actually existing and being a real country.

He's playing The Sims like with real people's lives. This

is not good. He also, of course, designed military uniforms,

a coat of arms, a flag. He designed land grant certificates.

I'm obsessed with him. Yes, dude. This all became convincing

enough that Major William John Richardson became a big ally.

He was very much invested in this idea of a

new country and believed him a thousand percent. So he

becomes this huge ally and starts helping him to promote

this country of Poies. He also was– he was essentially

made the– equivalent, it seems to me, of the Poyasian

ambassador in London. So he was meant to stay in

London to continue to promote Poyasian interests in London when

they eventually went to the country of Poyais. McGregor then

sets up offices in London, in Edinburgh, and in Glasgow

to Sell land certificates to people who are interested in

emigrating to Poitiers.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Speaker 1: So McGregor also increased his public presence by giving interviews

to the national newspapers. He was running ads. He was, like,

distributing leaflets. He's so funny. He hired, like, a PR firm, essentially, to, like,

do all of this advertising for him. McGregor went as

far as publishing a 355-page guidebook called The Sketch of

the Mosquito Shore, including the territory of Poyais, which was

said to be authored by Captain Thomas Strangeways. Okay. In actuality,

it was written either by McGregor or one of his accomplices. Right, right, right, right. Now,

the guide, which was sort of intended for use by

the settlers of Poyais, Described the land as fertile, able

to yield three maize harvests a year or as many

cash crops as you can grow, claiming millions of dollars

up for grabs. It also described fish and game as

plentiful that you could like go out hunting and come

back with enough food to one day to feed your

family for a week. Wow. Just plentiful. And he also

described the indigenous people of the area as cooperative and

welcoming and very pro-British. So this, of course, was not

to mention the capital, St. Joseph, which was this gorgeous

seaside town with mansions and a theater and an opera

house and like a cathedral. Sounds great. They talked about having,

I think it said like 20,000 current inhabitants of St.

Joseph of the capital city that it had sort of

already started to be built. settled and and built up

okay so it wasn't just like raw land you know

yeah this is all in the guidebook okay all of

this of course was a lie yeah this was all

a lie right but people were incredibly persuaded by the

official looking documents yeah apparent authenticity of the land grants

they were like this all seems legit yeah So by 1823,

McGregor had sold around 500 land grants for between two

shillings and four shillings per acre. Wow. He mainly went

for Scots, thinking he has more credibility with his fellow countrymen, right?

Many of these were just like average people who were

investing their life savings into the scheme. Wow. Making, essentially

making McGregor the founding father of securities fraud. Yeah. Like.

Speaker 2: That's amazing. What a piece of shit.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Dude, it only gets worse. It only gets so

much worse. How can it get worse?

Speaker 2: The Mosquito Coast is like barren.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. How can it get worse? And this is

the point where it starts to get a little above

me as far as the financial aspect. Oh, for sure.

I don't understand this kind of stuff. Me neither. But

McGregor also manages to secure a government loan on the

London Stock Exchange. Oh, okay. With this prestigious London bank

underwriting a 200,000 pound loan. There's also something having to

do with bonds and issuing bonds to the Poyasian government

at 80% of the purchase price, which would have at

the time netted him a shit ton of money. Like

very wealthy man. I'll be honest. I didn't understand. The

bonds thing is where I kind of get a little

lost because they're talking about Basically selling bonds to him

to jumpstart the economy and selling them at this really

good price, which would make him a lot of money.

I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2: It's part of the whole thing. Stocks and bonds is

like totally above my head. Yes, that's where I'm like,

and you lost me. It's so confusing. You lost me

with the stonks. Stonks and bonks.

Speaker 1: Stonks and bonks. McGregor put British officer Hector Hall in

charge of the first immigration party. Wow. And he took

70 immigrants on board of the Honduras Packet was the

name of the ship. Okay. To Poyais in 1822. Okay.

They all get on a ship and they're like, let's

go to Poyais.

Speaker 2: They're like, we cannot wait to see the opera house

and the theater.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Three months later, a second emigrant ship named Kennersley

Castle left for Poyais with another 200 emigrants on board.

All appeared to be well, but suddenly, thanks to unrest

in South America, Poyaisian bonds dipped big time. And there

were some payments not made on time. Oh, no. This

this flow of cash that McGregor had just dries up

because like all of a sudden the economy is tanking

and his bonds are not worthless. Sometimes things like that. Yeah.

This is literally while people are on the ships to Poyais.

Traveling to Poyais, yeah. Ooh. It's not good. In November 1822,

the Honduras packet finally arrives on Poyaisian land. All right.

Surprised not to see the bountiful land described in the guide.

Where is it? Literally no sign of this seaside capital city.

Is it behind this rock? So they were assuming like, okay,

the Poyasian authorities are expecting us. They're going to like

come get us. They know we're on our way. Yeah.

They are going to come get us. come get us

and take us where we need. So they set up

camp on the shore to just like wait and see. Cool. However,

the captain, Hall, he internally, personally, was like, we've been

fucking duped. Yeah. Like, he had this very strong suspicion, like,

this was all a fucking lie. Sounds like a smart guy.

Didn't want to say anything because he didn't want to

panic people. Yeah. And so he sort of, without warning,

gets back on board the packet. Oh. And sails away. Oh, goodbye.

He tells the immigrants, he's like, I'll be back. I'll

be right back. stay here and wait for the Poyasian

government to contact you and just wait it out. And

so he leaves with the intention of making contact with

the Mosquito King. Right, right, right. To get help. Yeah.

Those that were left ashore, they still were like, we

haven't been misled. This is a big misunderstanding. Like, if

we just hang here, like, somebody's going to come get us.

They know we're here, whatever. Right. In March 1823, they

were joined by the immigrants from Kenersley Castle, who were

surprised and disappointed to still see everybody just chilling on

the shore. Like, hmm. Camped up on the shoreline like, oh,

we thought you guys would be gone by now, but okay. Now,

around this time, Captain Hall returns saying not only was

help not coming, but that the Mosquito King had no

idea that they were there or that he was supposed

to be expecting them. What? Yes. Now, back at camp,

things are going terribly. Yes, it is. A fucking shit

show because there was no, like, apparent leader. Right. Hall,

in the meantime, is, he's taking these trips back and

forth to where the Mosquito King was at because he's, like,

trying to beg for help and he's coming back and

being like, no help, let me go try again, right? Yeah.

There is no, like, leader apparent for these now some

250 people. Oh, my God. And they're just hanging around

at camp. There's no structure of, like, whatever. People were confused.

They were not being paid. They had been promised, like,

all of these government payments for coming and starting up

the economy. But there's no money. There's no money.

Speaker 2: And also, there's not, like, all of that shit he

said is a fucking lie. So they probably couldn't grow anything.

They probably couldn't hunt anything. They were probably just fishing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And you're talking about being in, I believe, the

wet season. So insects now are becoming a really problem.

Speaker 2: There's a reason why it's called the Mosquito Coast.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Because that's all there is there. And sicknesses like

malaria and yellow fever are starting to run rampant and

spread throughout the group.

Speaker 3: Oh, no.

Speaker 1: But they're still just like, if we wait long enough,

the Poyais government is going to come save us. Oh, no. Now,

like I said, meanwhile, Hall, he was making trips to

speak with the Mosquito King and like beg for help.

The group was sort of, they're hanging out on the shoreline.

They were sort of stumbled upon by the chief magistrate

of Belize, Marshall Bennett, who was like on his way

to go see the Mosquito King. I was like, oh, hey.

He's like, what are all these people doing on the shoreline?

So he rolls up and he's like, so what are

you guys doing here? What's happening? He says that he

has never heard of Poyais, that it didn't exist, and

that they would absolutely die if they just stayed there.

He's like, you guys need to literally go anywhere else.

You will die if you stay here. Even with this,

the immigrants who were hanging out on the shore, Hall

had been out on a trip. They're like, okay, well,

let's wait for him to come back.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: And then we'll decide. About a week later, Hall returns.

with the Mosquito King in tow, who says he is

revoking McGregor's land grant. He's like, he doesn't get those

8 million acres of land. I'm taking them back. Yeah,

those are mine. That he had never bestowed the title

of cacique to McGregor. He also says that McGregor was

not authorized to sell any of the land and that now,

in fact, they were on his land illegally and And

that they would need to leave unless they planned to

pledge their allegiance to him. Yeah. Y'all need to get

the fuck off my beach. He's like, not only was

he not allowed to sell the land, but now you're squatting. Yeah,

so get out. So all but 40 immigrants who were

too weak and sick to travel left to go to

British Honduras. Even when they arrived, most of them were ill.

Disease was like rampantly spreading and most were dead. Most

got killed after their– well, not got killed, but they

died from disease and illness after their arrival. They didn't

have the infrastructure. All of a sudden, British Honduras has

this huge uptick in immigrants that they weren't expecting, don't

necessarily have the resources to aid with all of this.

So unfortunately, a lot of them did end up dying

when they arrived. That's so sad. At this point, an

investigation was opened by the British government in Belize at

the time. Good idea. I can't believe it. Into the

sort of made-up land of Poyais and what led to

all of these people being fooled. Yeah. And they send

word back to the British government to say, hey, we're

opening this investigation. Uh-oh. Y'all need to be aware of it. Meanwhile, McGregor,

who was in London– He had sent another five ships

carrying immigrants to Poyais. Great. He's like, we got to

keep things rolling. Because now he has people who are

interested from London. He had all of these people from Scotland.

So there were like ships leaving from Scotland. Yeah. But

once the word of the investigation had reached Britain, they

send out Royal Navy ships to like rush out and

stop the turn around. Yeah, they're like, we need to

rush out and like turn these ships back around, which

they did get some of them. one carrying Scottish immigrants

landed in Poyais and upon seeing the abandoned camp, they

were like, we're fucking out of here. Yeah, actually no.

They immediately go to British Honduras because that's like, they're not,

I mean, That's like the closest. Yeah, you can't just

like turn around and go back. Right, it's months. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: They need to like re-up on their supplies. So it's

almost like they're going to the, oh, I can't think

of it.

Speaker 1: Embassy? Embassy. Embassy. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Cut all that.

Speaker 1: Embassy. Kind of, but it's like, I mean, it's, again,

this is a very different time because it's all under

the British Empire. But they're like, where is our government? Yes.

Who's going to actually help us? Yes. These people. Yeah. Totally.

So they were like, all right, we're going to Belize.

So they go. They land in Belize. The last ship

to arrive went straight to British Honduras. They didn't even

stop in Poyais.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: But that ship also only contained provisions and arms, which

were then sold at auction in British Honduras. Right. Those

that survived either stayed there, settled elsewhere in the United States,

or sailed back home. They kind of spread out. Okay.

Before any of these survivors made it back, before they

actually landed back in the UK, McGregor left London saying

he was taking his wife, Josefa, to winter in Italy.

But in actuality, he had gone to Paris. Yeah. So

he goes off to Paris. That's the other way. He

fucks off. Yeah. Now, word of the fake land of

Poyais got out pretty quickly after people started coming back

and definitely became the talk of the town. There was

extensive coverage in the press. Wow. Even still. Some of

the survivors did not blame McGregor at all, instead saying

that he had been used by Hall and that maybe

if they had done a better job when they got there, like,

things might have turned out differently. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2: This fucking guy.

Speaker 1: Yeah. McGregor goes on to claim that he, too, had

been defrauded. Oh. He was like, I'm also a victim.

All of us. I'm also a victim. He said that

some of his agents were embezzling from him and that

there was direct meddling from British Honduras in an attempt

to undermine the success of Poitiers. Can't believe they would

do that. Yeah. Now, Richardson, who is this sort of

ambassador that was back in London, he continues to claim

in the press that poise exists. He's like, yeah, it

definitely exists. He started claiming libel against a lot of publications. Oh, wow.

He was still very much like.

Speaker 2: Ride or die.

Speaker 1: Stop talking shit. This exists. I swear. I've never seen it,

but I swear. It does. Yeah. I believe it. Now,

back in France, McGregor continues to seek investments for poise. Yes.

Even going as far as trying to persuade Spain to

get involved. Oh. Which is an interesting move. Yeah, it

sure is. Because... For the longest time, he's been like,

fuck Spain. Yeah.

Speaker 2: But now he's like, hey, you got $ 5?

Speaker 1: Yes. And they very much ignored him. Fuck you. Yeah,

he was pretty much ignored. So they had zero interest

in any of these shenanigans. Now, around this time, Richardson's

friend Gustavus Butler Hippasley also became convinced that poies existed

and he takes up aiding in trying to get this

funding for the country. Hippasley helped to negotiate with the

Nouvelle Nuestre Company and Who purchased up to– they were

purchasing up to 500,000 acres for their own settlement. Okay.

I'm assuming production thing. I don't know what they did. Yeah.

But the company wouldn't like its own settlement in the

new country. Okay. I'm sorry. The company wanted it in

the new country. Yeah. Yeah. So the company begins– and

he brokered this deal. Yeah. Through another third party, this

guy whose name is– I believe it's Luby. Okay. L-U-H-B-Y. Luby. Okay.

So this is all happening, right? Which they, in my research,

they were talking about this arrangement specifically with the company. Mm-hmm.

Adding more plausible deniability to McGregor. I was going to

say that's actually pretty smart. Yes. He's like trying to

further himself. He wants to do the same scheme, but

he's trying to get a couple steps away. Yeah. To

be able to be like, yeah, but I didn't know.

I didn't. I didn't know this was happening. Yeah. I

didn't know. I didn't know. I'm just the cacique of Poyais. Yeah.

I don't know.

Speaker 2: Why would I know?

Speaker 1: So this is happening. The company starts making preparations to

travel and to take some immigrants with them. So 30

of these people requested passports for the journey to Poyais.

When another 30, there's like a second batch of 30

that requested. The French government is like, why are all

of a sudden we getting all these requests for this

country we've literally never heard of? Right. Right. And immediately

becomes suspicious. Uh-huh. Valid. They order the company's ship to

remain in port. They're like, you are not allowed to

leave until we figure this out. Mm-hmm. Police then arrest

Hippasley and McGregor's secretary, Thomas Irving, in September 1825. Ooh. Okay. Bum-bum.

This happens. McGregor is now aware that he is under investigation.

He goes into hiding. And the company guy, Luby, he

fucks off to the Netherlands. He's like, I am out.

I'm going to the Netherlands. Bye. Hipposley and Irving, like

I said, they were arrested. They were arrested for conspiracy

to defraud and sell titles to land they did not own.

Although they... Insisted that they were innocent.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: McGregor was finally arrested in December 1825. He insisted that

this had to have been a result of policy change

in France or an elaborate plan to undermine Poiesian independence

by Spain.

Speaker 2: Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: Like, these countries are out to get me, I swear. Guys, stop. Yeah.

McGregor then sends out From prison, from his jail cell,

a French language proclamation saying that he was one of

the founders of the new world being held in prison,

being held prisoner for some reason. Right. That he just

wasn't aware of. He's out to get me, you guys.

He's trying to convince the general public of France. Yeah.

That he has some sort of like diplomatic immunity. He's

trying to sway public opinion. Did not work.

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 1: They were like. They were like, no, no. In April 1826, McGregor,

Hibbsley and Irving's trial began with this company man, Luby.

He was tried in absentia. This was actually helpful to

them that he was not there because he had a

lot of documents that the prosecution needed to bring a

valid case against McGregor. He had like taken a ton

of this material with him to the Netherlands. God damn it.

So the prosecution, while they were claiming all of this fraud,

they didn't honestly have a lot of evidence to back

it up. Shit. So the prosecution claimed that McGregor and

his associates conspired to profit from selling fraudulent land. Accurate.

The defense claimed that Luby should be solely responsible, that

there was in fact not any sort of conspiracy to

sell this land that they didn't own. And in fact,

McGregor was the one who had been tricked this whole time.

Speaker 2: Poor McGregor. Just wants to be a pram.

Speaker 1: Actually, no. I am a victim. How? I got fooled. Wait. Now,

interestingly enough, prosecutors, the defense is like, show me the evidence. Yeah.

Where's the evidence? And prosecutors agreed that they had a

lack of evidence and they applauded McGregor's cooperation. They were like,

he totally cooperated with the investigation. What? And they granted McGregor, Hippasley,

and Irving proof. Full release. Stop it. And they were

like basically acquitted at that time, right? Hello. Which would

have gone through. Yeah. Remember, this is the 1800s. So

like rules did not apply in the same way they

apply today. Right. That would have gone through if Luby

was not finally extradited out of the Netherlands. So he

gets extradited out of the Netherlands, arrives back, and the

courts are like, Okay, well, now that he's here, we're

going to retry this case.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: And they start over. Oh. Which is the point where

I'm like– Double jeopardy? Rules do not apply. Whatever. They're

like– yeah, the first one was– we're calling it a mulligan. Yeah.

Because actually– Everybody gets one. Yes. Yeah. Tell them, Beta.

So when all was said and done, the Luby, the

company man, he was sentenced to 13 months in prison

for making false representations regarding the sale of shares. McGregor

was found not guilty of all charges.

Speaker 2: What the fuck?

Speaker 1: And then the charges were dropped for the other two. Oh.

For Hippisley and Irvig. Charges completely dropped. Oh. Like, what?

You just get to go free. All those people died.

You took all their money. And you didn't even build

a courthouse. Nah, he got tricked. Where's the theater? He

also thought the land is real and was surprised when

it was fake. Shut up! Oh, my God. What? Like,

he just, like, gets off, pins it on this company

man and... Fuck! I just am, like, so baffled by this.

Me too! Why didn't they.

Speaker 2: Why didn't the court send a ship and... find some

of the surviving survivors and be.

Speaker 1: Like could you tell us was there they were literally

back in europe like they had already arrived back in

europe back.

Speaker 2: In london you had said like some of them had

settled in the united states.

Speaker 1: Yes yeah but no there was a good chunk that

came back yeah so they could have just gone and

gotten them yeah but the survivors did not believe that

he was lying There were a lot of them that

did not believe he was lying. He was lying. Yeah,

I'm also... The other thing is I'm pretty sure that

he was being tried by the French government. Okay. Because that's...

where he was arrested was in Paris. So I'm pretty

sure he was being tried by the French government. And

a lot of the survivors that returned to Europe, I'm

pretty sure landed back in London. Okay. Like back in Britain. Oh,

I see. So I don't know if there was an

issue either of like getting witnesses. It does sound pretty complicated. Yeah.

I don't know if that was.

Speaker 2: It's always whenever like one country has to deal with

another country and South America is going through it and

they all have different rules. I understand it's complicated, but

like shit.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: He did not go to jail. That's so stupid. He

spent some time in jail when he was arrested, but

he didn't receive like a prison sentence. What? Yeah. Which frankly,

back then, any prison was not great. No. Like worse

than it is today, obviously. But like, yeah, they were not.

They were like work camp gulag situations. Oh, yeah. Everywhere.

Speaker 2: All the time.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so immediately after he's acquitted, McGregor takes his whole

family and– because by this point they have a couple

kids– takes his whole family, moves back to London, is

immediately arrested. Yeah. They immediately arrest him.

Speaker 2: Such a dumb ass.

Speaker 1: He's held for a week and then he's released without

being charged. Oh. So they literally just, they arrest him.

No explanation. Hold him for a week and then release him.

Speaker 2: I guess we'll just let you go then.

Speaker 1: He then attempts to revive the Poiesian scheme on like

a smaller scale by saying instead of being a democracy,

it's a republic. And he is again like attempting to obtain...

and sell bonds. But these were not as popular as

they were before. And you would think- Yeah, they're not

as popular because people know you're a fucking fraud. Right. No,

that's not it. Why would he just try to do

the same shit again? They are not buying them because

the returns on them were bad. Right. Not because he's

a fraud. Right. Because the returns were just not as good.

Oh my God, dude. Because at this point, like the

Poirier scheme has been fully laid bare to like the public. Right.

It was covered in the papers. People were, it wasn't,

it wasn't the fact that he was lying. They were

just like, the return on investment is not that great.

Speaker 2: My ROI is like really not in it.

Speaker 1: Oh, my God. So he attempted to do this again.

There's I could go over that. But again, it's it's

a very similar thing where he was trying to get

government bonds, all this stuff. He attempts to revive the

scheme for a while to no avail. Then in 1830,

King King. King Robert Charles Frederick, who was the next

in line in succession to the Mosquito King. It was

his brother. Okay. When he passed, he took over as

the next Mosquito King. So he starts selling land certificates

for the same area to lumber companies in London. Okay. Which,

now that it's in London– It provides direct competition for

the grants that McGregor was trying to sell. This will

not stand. And there was like... There was like... Other

copycat people who were seeing this was a lucrative thing.

And so they started selling like third party land grants

for the same area. So he has this competition from

other people in London, competition from Mosquito King and his own.

And they're all like for the same land. Yeah.

Speaker 2: But it's so funny because in reality, the land is

not good.

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 2: We're all, like, vying for it. Lumber companies I could see.

Speaker 1: Yeah. But anything other than that is, like, no. Not

until the lumber companies are done for sure. Right. Like,

they got to clear some of that shit out. Yeah. But, like... Yeah. Oh,

my God. So all of this leads to McGregor moving

back to Scotland. Uh huh. He still is continuing to

like make this Poirier scheme work again through 1837 is

basically the last recorded mentions of this Poirier scheme. His

wife unfortunately dies in 1838. And after her death, he

decides he wants to move back to Venezuela. He settles

in Caracas and he starts applying for citizenship and requests

that his former rank in the Venezuelan army be removed.

reinstated reinstated and requested back pay you laugh but they

were like the so the current at where he was

at the area where he was at i can't remember

if at that time it was still a king or

if it was the president or whoever the leader that

was in charge served with him in the military and

knew him personally and was like, no, this guy, like

he was still, he still is too. He's very revered

in Venezuelan history in the fight for Venezuelan independence. Like

he did a lot of good stuff for them as

far as the battles to gain their independence. And they

were like, Venezuela owes this guy kind of a lot.

And so he sort of puts in a good word.

You guys, this guy's great. Yeah. So he gets his citizenship.

He gets a rank. I don't know if it was

the full former rank, but it is a decently high rank.

He gets a pension that is a third of his salary.

So they give him a pension. Wow. And, yeah, he

pretty much lives in peace in Venezuela until he dies

at the age of 58 in December 1945. Are you serious? Yes.

He just gets to, like, hang out? And he was, like,

people in the community, like, really vibed with him. Probably

buying him drinks and stuff. Yeah. Yes. He was, like,

a revered member of the community. Oh, my God. In Caracas. Yeah. So...

What a joke. That is the story of the Poies

scheme and Gregor McGregor. Yeah. What a clown. I have

never– see, again, like I don't think this type of

fraud is something– You would be able to get away

with in modern day. Oh, no. It was definitely of

its time, right? Yeah. I have never– financially, it is

not a lot of money you're talking about. I mean,

you're not talking about billions of dollars here, right? No, no, no.

But the scale of it, I don't know that I've

ever seen something that is such a large scale. Yeah. Like,

you're talking about inventing another country.

Speaker 2: He was ballsy.

Speaker 1: And getting people to believe it enough that they literally

boarded ships to go settle in a new area. Yeah,

they uprooted their lives and then they all fucking died.

And he faced nothing. A couple weeks in jail. Yep.

Who cares? Yep. I got to show you a picture

of him though before we move on. Please.

Speaker 2: I'm picturing him wearing a very funny hat. That's just

how he looks to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that. Like Yankee Doodle. He's got

like the big feather hat. Yeah, I mean, here's a

couple you can kind of describe to our audience. Oh,

he's kind of handsome. Little handsome. I thought so, too.

I was like, not a bad looking, although I will

say these have extra blush. Oh, absolutely. For sure.

Speaker 2: No, he looks, guys, he looks like a Napoleonic war hero.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Like if you were to say like that guy fought

like with Napoleon, he'd be like, for sure he did.

Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a very Napoleon pose. Very dramatic. And

also the mutton chops. Oh, big mutton chops. Like chops

down to your chin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are mutton steaks.

yeah yeah anyway so that that's the story of gregor

mcgregor one of the pissed off most audacious fraudsters in

the 19th century i would say yeah fuck that guy

that's crazy like that guy he's long dead so i

get i am confident in saying that's a good one

Oh my god, it's fraud.

Speaker 2: This week, I am covering the case of Sarma Mengalis,

who some of you might recognize from either the Netflix

series about her, Bad Vegan.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: So I made a mistake earlier and I said that

the Eric Goode was involved with the filmmaking. I mixed

him up with somebody else. This Bad Vegan was made

by some of the same people who made Tiger King.

Speaker 1: Yes. And others, but I don't think Eric specifically. No,

I don't think so. But same company. Yes. Same people. Yes, yes, yes.

But that was a big series. Bad Vegan. Bad Vegan

was really, really good. That's this lady. Very interesting. Okay.

Speaker 2: So you might recognize her from that. Came out a

couple years ago. Or you might have seen her on

her still active Instagram where you can see her sharing

information about her case and holding up packages of dates.

Speaker 1: Oh, yes. This account boasts, like, the fruit. Okay, thank you.

She's a vegan. Wait, are you? Well, I know, but

if she's talking about her case, it could be a

packet of, like, dates on a calendar. No, dates you eat. Okay,

thank you. Like, every other post is her being like,

this is a lemon. This is a pomegranate. I eat

that instead of chicken. It's like, okay.

Speaker 2: This account boasts about 85,000 followers, which isn't terrible, but

is certainly a far cry from the life she used

to have as a successful vegan restaurateur and entrepreneur. Some

of her many restaurants hosted guests such as Anne Hathaway,

Rooney Mara, and Alec Baldwin, who actually met his fake

Spanish wife, Hilaria, at one of her restaurants, which is

pretty crazy. He literally met his wife there. Hilaria is

like one of the funniest people in the world to me.

I love that she fakes her accent.

Speaker 1: Do you think she fakes it?

Speaker 3: Yes.

Speaker 1: Why? She's from Boston. Is she? Yes. Like for sure? Yes.

Let's see.

Speaker 2: She's like from like a rich family and they would

go to Spain, but she didn't like live there.

Speaker 1: So this is a very Dorit Kemsley situation. Yes. Okay. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: But she's always like, how do you say cucumber? And

I'm like, you're from Boston.

Speaker 1: Oh my God. You live there. She's born in Boston. Yup.

She is of English, French, Canadian, German, Irish, and Slavic descent.

Speaker 2: But like she fully, like fully, like she speaks Spanish

pretty well. And well, I guess I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1: She said she was raised in a Spanish speaking household

and annually traveled to Spain during holidays. For holidays. Yeah.

Speaker 2: But a lot of people in Spain speak English. And

you've lived in America like for most of your life.

And like they have like a reality show now. Alec

and his wife and his daughters. And she's still like.

Speaker 1: How do you say house? I'm like, girl, you live here.

Speaker 2: Anyway.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that gives Dorie Kemsley for sure. It's pretty funny.

It's very Madonna. Yes.

Speaker 2: And it's just ridiculous. She says things that don't make sense.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: That's neither here nor there. But this lady was famous

enough that that connection was made at one of her

restaurants over a plate of tofu and leaves or whatever.

Speaker 1: I like tofu.

Speaker 2: I like tofu when it's in stuff. It's good in

like stir fry.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I need to get more into it. Fried tofu

is pretty good. Oh, you fry anything. I'll eat it.

Sort of like chicken nuggets a little bit. Yeah. It's fair.

Speaker 2: It's kind of like, people aren't going to like this comparison,

but it's kind of like mushrooms in that you put

it in something and it like becomes that thing.

Speaker 1: I disagree. I love mushrooms, but I disagree. Oh, it's good.

mushrooms too. Yeah. Mushrooms have a very distinct taste. I guess.

I don't know.

Speaker 2: I feel like they blend into stuff.

Speaker 1: I disagree. We'll ask Tiff. Tiff will be the tiebreaker. Yeah,

that's true. Culinary Opinions Podcast.

Speaker 2: Anyway, how did she go from rubbing elbows with edamame-munching

celebs to, um, not doing that? Let's get into, shall

we say, the artichoke heart of the matter?

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: So she was born September 10th, 1972. Her father did

a bunch of stuff, but he was also like a

huge physicist, which is crazy. And her mother was a

professional chef. So that's kind of where she like learned

to cook and got her love of cooking from her mother.

She did well in school. Unfortunately, at about the age

of 10, her parents would divorce. And I think that

was probably like a big deal for her.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an age where if that happens, it's like very...

Life changing. Yeah.

Speaker 2: There's not a lot of information about like what she

thought about it, but just like, you know, as a parent,

I'm like, that's a hard age and that's a hard

thing to go through. So I'm sure that affected her

in some way.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Especially considering what ends up happening.

Speaker 1: Right. She did well.

Speaker 2: In school, graduated from University of Pennsylvania with a BA

and then a BS in economics. She was studying mainly

economics because she was kind of like she loved to cook,

but she was like, all right, I'm going to do

this like well-paying economic financial job.

Speaker 1: So she moved.

Speaker 2: From Pennsylvania to New York City and was working in

investment firms.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: Doing money type job, financial job.

Speaker 1: Yeah. But clearly– Things we don't understand. At all. Like

literally– Going to the floor and shouting, one, two, five, one, two, one, two. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Yes, oranges. No, down, up, down, down.

No gold. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Have you ever seen the thing where like Robert Downey Jr.

was working on a movie about the stock exchange in

like the 80s or 90s and he went like to

the stock floor to do research and he had like

a full panic attack? He was like, these are the

worst people I've ever met. This is the worst thing

I've ever seen. I hate that this exists. It's really

fun to watch.

Speaker 1: It's crazy, dude. It's confusing. I don't get it.

Speaker 2: I used to watch that 80s movie Trading Places and

it's like all about stocks. And I like, I remember

always like asking my dad, I'm like, what the hell

are they talking about?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: And he would like have to explain it to me.

I'm like, get out the building blocks. I literally don't

know what this means.

Speaker 1: I don't. That's okay. That's why we don't do those. Yeah,

no stocks. For jobs.

Speaker 2: No stocks, some bugs. So she was working these financial jobs. Like,

I don't know if she was like trying to make

dad proud or what, but she was like, don't really

want to be doing this.

Speaker 1: My heart's really not in it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So she ended up entering into culinary school, which was

what is it called? The French Culinary Institute in New York.

Speaker 1: Okay. So which is a big deal.

Speaker 2: And she graduated from there in 1999.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, now I'm gonna, I'm not doing

the money stuff anymore.

Speaker 1: I'm doing chef stuff. Okay. Chef stuff, So she.

Speaker 2: Ended up getting together with a man named Matthew Kenny,

who was a professional chef. And he was also like

an author. And he would like give talks. He was

pretty well known in like the culinary community.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So after she graduated from culinary school, she got with

him immediately. And they were like, let's open this restaurant together.

Speaker 1: Right. Which, okay. I understand.

Speaker 2: It's like you've been around restaurants. And you've been around

financial stuff as well. So it's like you might know

better than the average layperson how to run a business,

but you just fucking got out of culinary school. Like

I'm not in the culinary world, but it does seem

to be like kind of an ego thing. I always

watch like Kitchen Nightmares.

Speaker 1: And stuff like that. Oh, yes. I love that. I

love Kitchen Nightmares. I love Gordon Ramsay. Yes.

Speaker 2: And he'll always go to these people and it's like, okay,

what restaurant experience do you have?

Speaker 1: Oh, none. I just opened it. It's like, what? You

need experience. And I will say there is something to

be said for maybe not necessarily having the most restaurant experience,

but hiring the people who can do those things for you.

Like there is something to be said for that. And

not like doing it all yourself. But I think she

did it all herself, didn't she? Yeah, she sure did. Yeah.

This was the things that ours have in common is this.

This is ego. Oh, God. Ego project. Honestly, I think

when you were talking about fraud. It is ego. It

is a lot of times an ego thing. Well, even

like with yours, like you were saying, it wasn't even

like a lot of money. He didn't become a gazillionaire.

He stood to become that. Right. But not right away. Again,

stonks and bonds. Right, right, right. I don't know. But yeah. Oh,

my God. Yeah. It is almost always like an ego

or how much can I get away with? This is, yeah. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 2: There's going to be echoes for this for sure. So

her and her boyfriend, Matthew Kenny, opened a restaurant. So again,

she graduated in 99. She opened this restaurant in 2001.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And it's not like she was working in kitchens this

whole time. I'm like, girl, you don't know what you're doing.

So then it closed in 2003. Okay. Closed like right after.

It was called Commissary. Okay.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: So she was like, okay, all right, maybe I'll do

some consulting and kind of bide my time. I understand

businesses fail and you shouldn't let that get you down.

But it's like you should learn from your mistakes before

you open another one. Well, that's what a normal person

would do.

Speaker 1: That's what a normal person would do, take a beat.

Not this person. In 2004, she....

Speaker 2: So she had ended up doing some consulting for another

like chef restaurateur called Jeffrey Chidoro. So with him and

her boyfriend kind of being like, hey, I'm like really

good at this probably. Why don't we all do this together?

And they were like, okay. So they opened, this was

supposedly New York's quote, first upscale raw food restaurant. This

was called Pure Food and Wine in New York City.

So this was located in Gramercy Park, which is in Manhattan.

And it immediately– like, it seems like maybe she's learned

from her mistakes because it immediately started getting attention.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, like, right in Manhattan. Gramercy Park is huge, very, like,

well-known area. And so right away she starts getting these, like,

crazy reviews.

Speaker 1: I also– this was also, like, around– because you said

she opened this one in 2003, right? This one's 2004. 2004. Yes.

At the time– Especially in New York. I mean, we

still see effects from this now. Like the health community,

the health... Oh, yeah. Like that was a very big

health and wellness industry. Almond mom central. For people who

are living in more wealthy areas. Yes. Have more expendable income.

Like this becomes a very big money sink. And I

think she probably like was there at the right time. Yeah,

she absolutely was. For something like a raw vegan.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Place. Yeah. Because to me that just sounds. Terrible. I

would try it. Like, don't get me wrong. I would

definitely try it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: But like, it just seems like it would be a

salad bar.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And vegans will get really upset with you for

saying that. Because I'm sure there's other I mean, there's

other things that you can do, right? Like there are

methods for you see this a lot. With like some

fish where it's like there's a certain oil that you

can use. Oh, totally. That will like cook it like

when you add it to vinegar or something. Yes. But

it's still considered raw because it's not– there's no heat

being applied, right?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And like with sushi and stuff. There are ways to

do things. Yeah. To make it not a salad. So

it could be super interesting. But it did seem kind

of like salad central. Yeah, that's the first thing that

I think of too, admittedly. I think that's what it was.

I just know the vegans would get really mad if.

Speaker 2: I know this isn't, like, what this was, but whenever

I think of, like, raw bar, I think of, like,

scallops and, like, mussels and, like, lobsters and stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: But that's not what this was.

Speaker 1: No. Because those are amoment mammals. Yes. They have eyes.

You can't eat them. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: But apparently some people liked it. Some fancy people liked

it because she spent five years in a row in Forbes.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: Forbes had a list of, like, all-star New York eateries.

And so she was on that list for five years

in a row because of this restaurant.

Speaker 1: I wonder if her and Elizabeth Holmes were over in

Forbes at the same time. Oh, my God. How funny

would that be?

Speaker 2: They would love each other.

Speaker 1: Yeah, probably. I mean, she probably went to a restaurant.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 2: She was in New York Magazine's Top 100 Restaurants, like everything.

Things were going very, very well for her.

Speaker 1: Good, yeah.

Speaker 2: But all of the sudden, things were not so good

with her and her boyfriend.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: So there was this kind of thing happening by 2009

where she believed that her boyfriend was not, like, paying.

Speaker 1: Attention to the business enough. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: And her and the other guy, the other, like, chef

entrepreneur guy, Chaturow, expelled him from the operation. They were like,

you cannot sit with us. And he lent her, the

chef guy lent her the money so that she could

just buy the restaurant herself.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So he lent her $ 2.

Speaker 1: 1 million. Okay. That's a lot. Did they break up? Yeah. Okay.

So it wasn't just like, you can't be involved in

the business anymore. Yeah, no, they were like, goodbye. This

is professional and personal, personally, goodbye on all fronts. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

We're like, see you later. Gotcha.

Speaker 2: Before that, they had opened, so this was just this

one restaurant. They had opened other establishments as well. So

they expelled him in 2009.

Speaker 1: But in 2005, they had like a– they pretty much

gave their restaurant, the Pure Food.

Speaker 2: And Wine, the raw restaurant, an online store. that they

called One Lucky Duck.

Speaker 1: Yes, I remember that. Yep.

Speaker 2: So it was like, you can buy all of these

like delicious prepackaged vegan treats, you know, leaves and wood

chips and such, and we'll ship them to you. So

it became like a hugely popular website. And then with

that they launched an actual physical location, One Lucky Duck

Juice and Takeaway, in 2007. And then they in, I

think right before they expelled him, they had a One

Lucky Duck second location. Okay. So they're like making these businesses.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: They're like doing pretty good.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And they were able, they... Oh, yeah, there was even

a third location, one Lucky Duck juice and takeaway in

San Antonio.

Speaker 1: Texas, which is all in New York. So now they

have a location in Texas. So yeah, okay, which.

Speaker 2: I know that this is probably like old person of me,

but I'm like, would a vegan place do well in Texas?

Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. No, it absolutely would do well because you

are talking about an area where obviously barbecue meat- It's

like saturated. Right. And people who have alternative diets.

Speaker 2: Don't have anywhere to go.

Speaker 1: That's very true. Exactly. That's true. It probably would do

really well. You know what I mean though? I'm like- Yeah. Especially,

you said it was in Austin? Yeah. Especially in Austin. Yeah.

Or San Antonio, my bad. How far is San Antonio

from Austin? Girl, I don't know. I know. I'm like,

I don't know. I need like a map of Texas.

But if it's anywhere close to Austin where all the

hipsters are at. Keep Austin weird. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2: I would love to go there.

Speaker 1: To Austin? Yeah. Nah, I'm good. Really? I don't really

need to be in the state of Texas for any reason.

Speaker 2: See, I agree with that. But if I had to

go to Texas, I would go to Austin.

Speaker 1: Yes. It just looks like there's a lot of, like, cool...

If I had to go to Texas, I would go

to Austin. But the good news is... It seems like

a really artsy-fartsy community. I don't have to go to... Right.

Texas You don't. for literally anything. So I will not

worry about it. No, Austin is, like, northeast of San Antonio.

They're not that far apart.

Speaker 2: I was going to say it's so huge, I don't

even know.

Speaker 1: So everything's, like.

Speaker 2: Going super good, right? Going super, super good. She's friends

with all these celebrities. At this time, also her Instagram

and her like public like persona was like, so she

was like the it girl. On Instagram, they called her

like the vegan vixen because she's this like beautiful blonde.

She's this successful restauranteur. She's friends with Alec Baldwin. She's

like this super cool woman. So everyone was like, wow,

like she was kind of like a housewife before the housewives.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, so everything's going really good. Right. But

in January.

Speaker 2: 2015, the staff at like the New York version of, well,

actually all of them did. Pure Food and Wine and

One Lucky Duck staff all walked out of the restaurant

because they they had not been paid for over a month.

This wasn't the first time this had happened with wages

being held for over a month.

Speaker 1: Okay. For the entire restaurant staff. Okay. Okay. Pretty crazy. Yes.

Speaker 2: So she was like, okay, what as a rich white woman,

what should I do to address these complaints? Well, I'm

going to make a post on my blog.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: She was like, you guys, I'm like, so fucking sorry.

Speaker 1: Sorry. Oh my God.

Speaker 2: And then deleted the post immediately.

Speaker 1: Wow. She was like, I'm actually not sorry. Not actually sorry.

Just kidding.

Speaker 2: So she, when the employees would like, talk with her

and be like, hello, like, please give me my money.

She was like, you guys, there's just like, I changed banks.

So like, that's crazy.

Speaker 1: And they're like, right, right, right. For sure.

Speaker 2: And then she's like, and also like the ingredients we

use here, like so expensive. I like can't afford it.

And they're like, who made you order those ingredients?

Speaker 1: Right. What are you talking about? Right. What are you

talking about? So she was just like, I'm just having

a hard time. Also, none of this is our problem. Right. Exactly. Legally,

you have to pay me. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So she was able to– she was like, okay, like,

it's just, like, a thing.

Speaker 1: I'm getting it figured out. It's fine. Shut up.

Speaker 2: And so the next– In a couple months, because this

was in January, the walkout was in January. So the

establishments had to close because they had no staff.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: In April, they were able to reopen, but without the

majority of the original staff.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: Most of them were like, actually, fuck you.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't blame them. Right. But she was like, okay,

it's okay.

Speaker 2: I got a new staff and now everything's going to

be fine.

Speaker 1: Just kidding.

Speaker 2: In July of that year, there was another walkout.

Speaker 1: Yeah. For the same reason. Yeah. Unpaid wages. Jeez. So.

Speaker 2: Now there's like all this stuff happening. So at this point,

there's beginning to be sort of whispers in the community

of like, what's going on? Like you look on Instagram,

she's so like rich and famous and popular. How could

she not have this money? Like what is going on?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: And so this starts to become a criminal issue.

Speaker 1: Yes. Like where is this money? You need to have

some money. So let's start looking into your finances. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And what they found was that she and her– so

she– I forgot to mention this guy. She ended up

getting a new boyfriend and getting remarried to him. And

this guy was a real fucking piece of shit.

Speaker 1: He is. Do you remember him from the documentary? He

is something, man. He's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I don't really go into it because a lot of

it's hearsay. But– and she still talks about it. When–

There was a lot of like alleged abuse because as

soon as this came out and was in court, she

was like, he made me and he was abusing me

the whole time.

Speaker 1: And some of the things she said were like very chilling. Yes.

Speaker 2: And even like, so for this case, you guys, I

do like such good research, you guys. I opened up,

I was like, I'm going to go to her Instagram

and see like what's going on. And one of the

first like pinned posts was her, I didn't watch the

whole thing, but her holding up a thing of like,

this is how narcissists abuse you. And this is what,

and I'm like, you're talking about Anthony.

Speaker 1: I'm like, girl. he did not make you take that money. Yeah.

I mean, it's complicated. It is a complicated situation. Cause

we're also talking about like mental and emotional manipulation. I'm

not saying there's no way none of that happened. It's

very complicated. Yes.

Speaker 2: It's a complicated, but I'm like, That's not a good

reason to steal things from people who don't have anything

to do with this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. These cooks need to.

Speaker 2: Feed their families.

Speaker 1: I don't disagree. But I also don't think it's that

simple either. No, definitely.

Speaker 2: But there's complication, but I'm still like, come on, girl.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: So it turned out essentially that her and her husband

had been embezzling money from the company, stealing money from

the company, writing it off for, you know, grass and

leaves and then going on these fabulous trips and buying

fabulous houses and fabulous cars and all of this stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So all of this gets uncovered by the police who

are like, where's all this money?

Speaker 1: Oh, there it is. Okay. Well, we're gonna, um, we're

gonna come for you. Yes.

Speaker 2: Because at this point, the pure food and wine restaurant

has been closed.

Speaker 1: Right. Right.

Speaker 2: So it closed and they were like, well, we're going

to come and get you. Where did they go? So they, uh,

tracked them down to Seaverville, Tennessee.

Speaker 1: Terrible name, yeah. Yeah, I know, right? Never heard of it, but.

I'm sure nothing has ever happened there. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So they were staying, her and her husband were hiding

out in this hotel.

Speaker 1: I mean, you know. Whatever she says. They were in

this hotel. Yes.

Speaker 2: They had, I thought this was kind of weird. Instead

of staying in one room, they had conjoining rooms. Like

they each had their own room that were like conjoined

by a door. And this is like, this was the

funniest part of the documentary.

Speaker 1: I loved this.

Speaker 2: They were actually caught because Anthony called and ordered a

pizza and wings, neither of which are vegan, to his

room under his own name.

Speaker 1: So they were like, oh, that's what we're doing. Yeah. Okay, pumpkin.

Speaker 2: So it was from Domino's too. So they went and

were like, hi, you're arrested.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: So he was wanted for grand larceny, violation of labor laws,

and scheme to defraud. She was wanted for grand larceny,

scheme to defraud, violation of labor laws, and criminal tax fraud.

She was also fucking around on her taxes.

Speaker 1: Of course. Of course. Yes.

Speaker 2: So they were- arrested, had to wait around for jail. Eventually,

in December of 2016, she was offered a plea deal. Like,

tell us everything that you're doing. And they were worried

because they kind of figured that if they went to trial,

she would push it off all on him and get

out scot-free. And they were like, well, if we offer

her a plea, we can get all of this information

that we need to go forward. And at least then

it'll be honest.

Speaker 1: Right. You know, right.

Speaker 2: So I think that was kind of like the right

thing to do. Plea deals piss me off. But it

was the right thing to do. Yes and no. Yeah,

that's a big we'll talk about yes and no. Yeah,

sometimes they're good. But a lot of the time I'm like,

I did the crime, but I don't feel like going

to jail about it.

Speaker 1: Oh, okay, that's fine. It's like, no, fuck you. I mean,

a lot of times it is also used for people

who didn't do the crime and don't want to go

to jail. In that case... I would say it's a

50-50 split.

Speaker 2: But like, you know what I mean, though? It really

pisses me off.

Speaker 1: She won't agree. I know what you mean, but I

don't agree. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So she ended up pleading guilty the next year. Ended

up kind of getting hit with– it ended up being

about $ 2 million that she had stolen from investors and

stuff for the restaurants. $ 2 million.

Speaker 1: Damn, that's a lot. Yeah, it sure is.

Speaker 2: And that was just what they caught her with. I'm

sure it was a lot more.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Because her lifestyle was crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Crazy.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So she got hit with that and criminal tax fraud charges.

Speaker 1: But don't worry. She did go to jail for four months. Oh, okay.

four months i mean that's more than a lot of

other fraudsters get i know but that's it yeah that's

not as much as you would expect but i'm sure

that was because of the plea and her aiding and

getting her boyfriend uh yeah arrested right yeah right.

Speaker 2: And he went to jail a little bit too but

like not much um they are divorced she ended up

filing for divorce the next.

Speaker 1: Year Oh, good. Yeah, great.

Speaker 2: Because, you know, they really seem like they were bad

for each other. She is still, she goes on a

lot of podcasts. I think she has her own podcast.

Speaker 1: That would not surprise me at all. No.

Speaker 2: At where she is constantly still like... You'd kind of

think like if you were trying to like maybe reinvent

your image and stay in this circle, you would kind

of try not to talk about it so much. You'd

be like, that was sure a thing that happened. Anyway,

but she's still talking all the time about how... Bad vegan.

The documentary series misrepresented her and said.

Speaker 1: All these lies. I'm like, no, it didn't. Yeah. Wasn't

she interviewed in the documentary? Yeah. Okay. Girl, okay. Anytime

somebody is like, they are telling lies about me and

they are directly involved in the creation of whatever it is. Yeah.

I'm always like that's bullshit. She's full of beans. There

is not– the way that people think these interviews– am

I saying they are not edited? No, I'm not saying that. No,

of course not. But very rarely are they going to–

You have like direct involvement. Yeah, they're very rarely going

to like chop and screw the– No. The interview dialogue

to make you sound worse. You just make yourself sound bad.

Don't blame it on the edit, girl.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: She's full of beans. Very rarely is the edit in

a documentary going to be the thing. She's full of

vegan beans.

Speaker 2: So if you're interested in this, there's a lot of

malarkey that I did not include, including she noticed.

Speaker 1: She thought, well, because it would be two hours long. Yes,

I agree. I'm in the same boat, dude.

Speaker 2: There's this whole thing where she allegedly thought that if

She had these restaurants be successful by doing fraud that

her dog would be immortal forever, which sounds like OCD

to me, which was never really mentioned in the court.

Speaker 1: Very confusing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the dog did die. So I mean, like it

didn't have to do.

Speaker 1: With like a cloning thing. something or other there was

something like that yeah but like there was a spiritual

thing where she's like if i get this working my

dog will not die yeah why would that be yeah

that's strange you should definitely check out the documentary really

good because it does go into a lot of the

extra stuff right in addition to the front it's crazy

yeah it's it's there's just a lot and it makes

a big deal about the pizza and the wings which

is very funny well very very funny it's not a

good one for.

Speaker 2: A vegan it's not vegan and she still is like

it wasn't for me we had conjoining rooms it wasn't

for me and I'm like you ate a wing swear

to god I didn't touch those wings I swear she's

like just let me smell it just let me smell

it yeah swear.

Speaker 1: To god yeah that was fun yeah it's an interesting

case you should definitely check out the documentary I don't

have to tell you things are bad everybody knows things.

Speaker 2: Are bad it's a depression.

Speaker 1: Well, that has been our show. It sure has. For

another week. Do you have any final thoughts before we

close out? Don't do fraud.

Speaker 2: Fraud people that's not nice.

Speaker 1: We are um while I'm thinking about it we are

so this will be released I want to say in

September okay uh so I'm gonna say it in this

episode and I'm gonna say it in the next episode

because I don't remember when they're coming out but just

in case we will be taking our annual time off

in October yes which means there will not be anything

released the month of November so just keep that on

the horizon We'll be back. And we'll be back in December.

Speaker 2: We got you.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Back in time for the holidays. Yeah. Because we

won't miss that. But we will take a break for

Halloween time. We got spooky stuff. Not going to do Christmas,

but we will take a break for Halloween stuff.

Speaker 2: We're going to take a month-long coffin nap.

Speaker 1: Basically. Basically. Just a hibernation. Yeah. Any final thoughts? No. Okay, cool.

Our sound and editing is by Tiff Fullman. Our music

is by Jason Zakrzewski, the Enigma. This has been the

Bad Taste Crime Podcast. We will see you in two weeks. Goodbye. Goodbye.

It was as if a wave of evil washed over

this town.

Speaker 3: Hey y'all, I'm Tiff the sound editor and I just

wanted to take a moment and address Rachel's hot take

on mushrooms because I know you really want that tiebreaker.

I would like to state for the record that I

strongly disagree with Rachel.

Speaker 1: Mushrooms add to.

Speaker 3: The flavor of your dishes and tofu carries the flavor.

Thank you for listening to Culinary Opinions Podcast.