← Back to Podcast/Inside CVS Caremark: The Role of PBMs in Drug Costs & Access | SPONSORED
Episode Transcript

Inside CVS Caremark: The Role of PBMs in Drug Costs & Access | SPONSORED

THIS SPONSORED PODCAST EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY CVS HEALTH.

In this sponsored episode, James Margiotta, Chief Growth Officer at CVS Caremark, joins Health Affairs Publishing's Jessica Bylander to unpack the role of pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), their impact on prescription drug costs, and the value PBMs bring to the health care system.

James has nearly 35 years of experience driving innovation, operational excellence, and enterprise value across the healthcare system. In his current role, James leads the team responsible for partnering with clients to identify their unique needs and bringing forward strategic solutions to meet their objectives.

Throughout his career at CVS Health, James has scaled businesses across CVS Caremark, CVS Accountable Care, Minute Clinic, Aetna, and CVS Pharmacy — each with its own challenges, cultures, and market dynamics.

James and Jessica's conversation explores how PBMs help employers, health plans, governments, and unions manage rising prescription drug costs while balancing affordability, transparency, and member experience. James explains CVS Caremark’s approach to controlling costs, dives into the growing demands for price transparency, and how artificial intelligence may transform pharmacy benefits and member navigation services.

Speaker 1: Doctor. Hello, and welcome to a sponsored health

affairs podcast episode brought to you today by CVS Health. I'm

your host and a deputy editor and correspondent at Health

Affairs Publishing, Jessica Bylander. Today on the program

to discuss pharmacy benefit managers or PBMs, we have CVS

Caremark Chief Growth Officer James Marjota. Throughout his

career at CVS Health, James has led and scaled businesses across

CVS Accountable Care, MinuteClinic, CVS Caremark,

Aetna, and CVS Pharmacy.

Today, he and I will discuss what value PBMs are bringing to

the healthcare system. James, welcome to the program.

Speaker 2: Jessica, it's fantastic to be here and look

forward to our time together today.

Speaker 1: So to start us off, there is a lot of debate about

the role of PBMs and whether they can actually drive down

prescription drug costs. So how do you describe the value PBMs

bring to the healthcare system and what makes CVS Caremark

unique?

Speaker 2: Jessica, when we think about the value that PBMs

bring to the healthcare system, we first need to think about who

our customers are. And as we think about that, it's always

centered around our customer and their priority first and

foremost is how do they manage cost? Secondly, how do they

ensure that there is a experience that their members

have in accessing the system? How do they provide an

affordable benefit? And how does that all come together in a way

that helps them execute their strategy?

And each customer is unique in terms of their approach, what

they need to do. And so when you think about the role that the

PBMs play, it's really orienting our infrastructure capabilities,

expertise to help deliver on their commitments and execute

their strategy better than anyone else. And so there's a

number of approaches that we deploy in partnership with our

customers to help manage the overall cost of pharmacy

benefits for their particular members. When I think about CVS

Caremark and why are we unique? I would highlight several key

aspects of that.

First and foremost, we are very customer centric and customer

oriented. We listen to our customers. We understand what's

important to them, their priorities, and we align our

organization, our capabilities in a way that helps deliver on

their commitments and their objectives better than anyone

else. Secondly, when you think about those we serve and the

infrastructure that's needed in order to engage with

manufacturers, in order to create competition, in order to

deliver the greatest value from a price perspective, the size

and scale of CVS Caremark is unmatched and in a way allows us

to work together with the supply chain to optimize in a way that

delivers value to our customers. Secondly, as we think about the

role that we play, it is how are we engaging with the members

that we serve on behalf of our customers to help advance their

strategies in the least abrasive way possible.

When you think about managing the overall cost of prescription

medications and the desire of our customers to have an

affordable benefit, it's important that they take very

active approaches to managing overuse, abuse and misuse of

medications. The third area, and it's one that is a clear

differentiator and franchise for CVS Caremark is our expertise in

specialty pharmacy. Specialty pharmacy represents close to 50%

of the cost of providing prescription benefits, but it

usually only represents about two to 3% of the members. So

there's a very small subset of members that are accessing the

benefit and in doing so represent a significant amount

of the cost. So our ability to actually engage those members in

a way that supports them with their complex condition to help

manage their care is unique and differentiated.

Then finally, how are we engaging the member? As we think

about the trust, the engagement and the work that we're doing,

engaging with that member each and every time they access the

prescription benefit. And the prescription benefit is in many

times the most utilized benefit within any given plan. And so

our ability to actually engage that member to produce a

different outcome, to manage the overall strategy and to help

them manage their care effectively is really a final

area of differentiation for us.

Speaker 1: So when you say customers, you're thinking

employers, the health plans and the members of those plans, is

that right?

Speaker 2: That's correct. It's traditional employers, members

of health plans, but also state and local government and union

and labor customers as well.

Speaker 1: So obviously high drug costs continue to be top of

mind for employers, health plans and those other entities you

mentioned. How is CVS Caremark helping manage those costs and

improving affordability? You touched on this a little, but

could you kind of drill down on that?

Speaker 2: As you think about managing costs, you really need

to understand what are the underlying components that

ultimately produce the cost paid for the pharmacy benefit. And so

we like to think about it in terms of cost equals price times

product times utilization. And so the sum of that equation is

what ultimately will produce the cost associated with providing

the benefit. And so if you look at each one of those three

pillars, if you think about the pricing construct, it's how are

we creating competition within the supply chain? How are we

optimizing in a way that delivers the greatest value to

our customers and our purchasing scale throughout the entirety of

the supply chain to deliver value to our customers.

Secondly, as we think about the product, and so this really gets

into mix and when you start to evaluate and understand how plan

designs are built, how we work with our customers to take a

very data driven approach in terms of what's driving their

costs, what are the conditions that they have within their

population? Where do they want to invest the dollars that

they've allocated for the benefit? You start to think

about that in a way that maximizes generic medications,

which are the lowest cost prescriptions available,

traditional branded products, specialty medications, which are

used to treat high cost complex conditions. And then really the

new emerging opportunity, which is biosimilar medications. And

so these are really generic products for the high cost

specialty medications.

And there's a tremendous opportunity that's being

presented over the past several years and there's a pipeline

that is growing. So part of it is we have to make sure we've

got the right unit cost and price. How do we work to

establish and achieve the best mix given the population that is

being served? And then finally, how are we managing the

utilization? And so when we think about utilization, it's

really understanding the quality, the care management,

evaluating the drugs that are being prescribed, working

closely with the physician and the member in order to advance

the approval of certain medications.

But you're really trying to ensure that you're managing the

overuse, misuse, and abuse of medications and ensuring that

the medications that are dispensed are appropriate for

the given diagnosis that a member might have. And so we

really think about those kind of three key areas that make up the

cost equation. And then how are we executing strategies,

leveraging our infrastructure, our ability to engage with the

member, our digital assets, the front engagement that we have is

we're connecting with those members in a way to help support

them on their care journey. And so when you bring all of those

together, it really creates the outcome that helps our customers

manage their overall cost, which is the role that we play.

Speaker 1: Great. Yeah, I know that utilization adherence,

those are all really key issues and also the availability of

generics and increasingly biosimilars is something we

follow a lot. So really interesting points. So what

challenges are customers facing as they decide on their pharmacy

benefit coverage? Like, they even aware they're using a PBM

and so on?

Speaker 2: Oh, they're absolutely aware of the

relationship that they have and what's really happened over the

past several years. And I think back to when I first started,

I've been in the PBM business for over thirty years. And at

that time it was really a mail service as a voluntary benefit.

And so as it's evolved over the past period of time, it's very

much a foundational aspect of the benefits package that a plan

sponsor offers to their members. And so it's continued to grow in

its cost and ultimately its focus when you think about truly

at the C suite level and understanding the cost and the

acceleration within the pharmacy benefit.

It's one of the least expensive ways to treat conditions when

you think about alternatives of being inpatient or other

particular therapies, but it's continued to accelerate in a way

that it represents more than 50% of the costs that typical plan

sponsors are spending. And it's continuing to grow and trend

based on disease progression and continued increases. So it's at

the C suite level, clients are very much aware of the growing

cost and really the focus of the need here because it touches so

many members and it's accelerating in a way that they

truly need the help of PBMs and experts like CVS Caremark to

support their strategies.

Speaker 1: Right, so strategies and sort of controlling those

costs as they continue to increase.

Speaker 2: When you start to think about how they have the

ability and what's top of mind in terms of their offering a

benefit, affordability and cost is the number one criteria and

area of focus for our customers. But fast following that, it

really gets into the experience and think in terms of the member

experience. So as you're managing and trying to provide

an affordable benefit that all of the members can use, you have

to also manage the experience that the member goes through as

they're accessing the benefit. And so those are two of the

primary areas of focus for our customers. And then what's

continuing to emerge is ensuring it's compliant, it's

responsible.

And when you think about the overall legislative and

regulatory environment, that it's also very responsive to the

ongoing changes in evolution and really an area that CVS Caremark

has taken a leadership position in terms of our overall approach

relative to what's important to our customers.

Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of developments on the policy

side, a lot to follow. And so we know plan sponsors are looking

for more transparency in drug pricing. What is CVS Caremark

doing to respond to this and how do transparency models work?

Speaker 2: This has been a movement that's been underway

for several years in terms of a desire to understand and to be

more transparent and really connect how you think about the

overall supply chain within the pharmacy benefit management

arena. And so we very much support our customers in terms

of their desire to understand the underlying economics and

have really taken a leadership position over the past couple of

years in terms of introducing new models from a pricing

perspective, how those models manifest themselves in terms of

benefit design, all the way from how we're purchasing from the

manufacturer down to how the member actually pays for the

medication. And so really looking at how do you align the

purchasing with what's ultimately paid, not just by the

plan sponsor, but ultimately by the member. And so we very much

support the transparency requirements and understand the

regulatory environment, taking a leadership position and really

think about this as an opportunity where our clients

are looking to us for guidance in a very dynamic market in

terms of how do we manage through this in a way that

allows us to maintain the affordability of the benefit.

How does the economics change when you start to think about

underlying drug pricing, still leveraging strength of CVS

Caremark to deliver the best value across the cost equation

that we talked about earlier, but ultimately in a way that

allows them to understand the cost of the medications and true

net cost of the medications.

And this is one of the areas that becomes challenging, which

is there's the discounted cost of a medication and then there's

the rebate that you receive from manufacturers at a future point

in time. And so really when we think about supporting our plan

sponsors and making the very best decisions, they need to

understand the true net cost of the medication. And that's

really an area that we're supporting our customers in

because it also helps them to make the best decisions in terms

of coverage and also the affordability of the benefit

down to their members and constituents.

Speaker 1: So I'm wondering now how CVS Caremark is using

technology innovation, including artificial intelligence or AI to

transform pharmacy benefits and the member experience.

Speaker 2: Jessica, that is a paramount area of focus for our

organization. We announced over the next ten years, we'll spend

$20,000,000,000 as a company to deepen and advance our focus on

using advanced technologies to enhance the delivery of our

services across the CVS Health ecosystem and CVS Caremark is

benefiting meaningfully in that regard. There are several key

areas that I would highlight that have been paramount from

our perspective. And so you really have to think about this

in a way and it really builds upon one of your earlier

questions in terms of how CVS Caremark is differentiated when

we think about the cost, the member experience, but really

advancing in a way and thinking about us as a really technology

services company and evolving in a manner that allows us to not

only support the plan sponsor from a strategic planning

perspective using data and insights, how are we engaging

the member in a way that identifies opportunities and

helps prompt them to take the next best action. As we think

about the models that we're deploying and identifying those

opportunities and leveraging data, but also how are we

engaging with the provider?

And that's one thing that we haven't talked about throughout

the entirety of all of this, Jessica, a prescription doesn't

get dispensed unless a provider prescribes it. And so this is an

area that we've invested very heavily in from a technology

perspective and it's leveraging our connection deep within the

electronic medical records across the industry in order to

work within the healthcare ecosystem to understand

information relative to our patients and our members'

conditions, how they're accessing medications and

leveraging that from a prescribing perspective. Let me

give you an example. We, Myra went a biosimilar within the

past year and a half or so. And it was one of the most

successful conversions that ever occurred within the biosimilar

industry and the adoption of the product.

What we were able to do by leveraging our advanced

technology, our connection into the healthcare ecosystem through

the electronic medical records is we were able to engage

directly with the physicians, identify the members that were

on the branded medication. And then we were able to work within

the system, within the provider flow to communicate with the

physician, to convert them to the biosimilar medication. And

so we've achieved over 90% adoption and conversion to the

biosimilar saving our customers $1,800,000,000 plus and in doing

so reducing the cost for members, many of which moved to

a $0 copay. That's just one example of how we're leveraging

technology, but also how it's connected and wired deeply into

the healthcare ecosystem to produce a better outcome, to

reduce member abrasion and to manage and drive down the cost

of care. We're also using it for traditional prior authorizations

where we're able to identify areas of opportunity.

A great example is a plan sponsor has determined that they

wanted to more effectively or closely manage a therapy and

require a prior authorization. And this is an area that's

received quite a bit of press in terms of the abrasion and the

impact that has on physicians and ultimately members. And so

we've used artificial intelligence to help us extract

the data, understand the clinical criteria, apply the

critical criteria and determine what additional information we

might need, how we might connect back into the provider to

receive that information. How do we keep the member informed as

it progresses through the prior authorization approval process,

and ultimately move through the disposition of that request. And

so we've accelerated into minutes the time that if all the

information is there, that the prior authorization is approved.

And so that minimizes abrasion to the member. It gets them on

therapy faster. In the event we need more information that's

handled in a very electronically oriented way. And ultimately,

there's a decision that the prescription should not be

approved, there's a human in the loop to make that decision. We

do not use AI or advanced technologies to make decisions

against prior authorizations.

We would always have somebody evaluate that. We're using it in

our call centers to enable in the event we get an outbound

call from a member asking about their benefit, we're using it

inside our call centers to anticipate, to listen to the

members as we're engaging in the conversation, to present the

representative with the information that they need in an

anticipatory manner to allow them to best serve that member

because our customers contract with us not only to help manage

the cost, support the care that they're investing in for their

members, but their employees and their members are there to serve

their mission, not to navigate the healthcare system and the

benefit that we've provided. So we think about this in a way

that how do we make this most efficient while managing and

balancing the totality of what's needed. And then the final area

is how are we using technology to predict, anticipate, consult

and bring forward advanced strategies to support our

customers really in a prospective way, given the

continued trends and dynamics within the pharmacy benefit

landscape.

Speaker 1: So, yeah, this just sounds like a really interesting

new frontier, you know, EHR prompts to kind of change

provider prescribing and also just using AI to speed up some

of these processes that can can feel a little slower. This

sounds like a really interesting new frontier kinda using

technology and AI to to kind of attack some of those pain

points, like substituting generics or biosimilars for for

the brand name and and also kind of speeding up some of these

these processes. So interesting and definitely something to

follow.

Speaker 2: Jessica, I'd like to add what really, and you kind of

think about the next frontier, right? So we think about the

foundational elements of what you historically think about in

terms of what we've done and how we're helping our customers

manage the cost of pharmacy benefits. But you also have to

think about it in a way that the trusted relationship that we

have with those members creates an opportunity for us to engage

them and work with them in a different way to help support

their care and support them on their journey. We recently

launched Health one hundred, which is we believe a

meaningfully differentiated consumer health engagement

platform that will really create an open access environment for

our customers and their members to have a single point because

this is one of the things that is most challenging for our

customers and their members is just how fragmented the

healthcare system is. And so the core system is fragmented.

And then if we think about how various point solutions that

might be enabled to support a given therapy are enabled, It's

very challenging for a given member to determine where to go

for what, when and how do you best support in an environment

where most people don't have a primary care physician. If they

do, they're not consistently seeing the primary care

physician and as time progresses, disease progresses

and that becomes very, very problematic. And so what we've

launched is really a first and meaningfully differentiated

given the number of members we serve every day and the trust we

have is Health one hundred. And think about that in a way that's

really meant to be the one stop shop for not only CVS Caremark

members, but broader members that we serve to access a

trusted source that is deeply integrated into the broader

healthcare system with other partners outside of the CVS

Health family to help our members support and navigate

care. Think in terms of providers participating, other

health plans participating, our customers participating, it's

really an exciting time and one that is very much relevant given

the challenges that our customers are facing in

particular their members.

We'll also be deploying an AI coach and support the members

that engage in the platform. So there's some really exciting

times and things that are coming from CVS Health and CVS Caremark

generally, as we think about controlling costs and thinking

about costs, not only around pharmacy, but how do we think

about the total healthcare costs of those we serve?

Speaker 1: That's really interesting. James, thanks again

for joining us on this sponsored Health Affairs podcast episode.

This episode has been brought to you, the listener by CVS Health.

Thanks for listening and be sure to subscribe to all of Health

Affairs Publishing podcasts, A Health Podyssey and Health

Affairs This Week, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks.

This transcript was automatically generated by the podcast creator and may contain errors. Aggregated via the PodcastIndex API.