How The Navy Got Its... Reputation
In 1919, rumors were swirling that a naval base in Newport, Rhode Island, was rife with immoral (gay) behavior. In response, Assistant Secretary of the Navy Franklin Roosevelt commissioned a sting operation. Send fresh, young sailors into the base to honeytrap men into having sex with them. What followed was one of the biggest scandals in U.S. Navy history.
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Rob Fox
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Dan Regester
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Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 2: I'm now listening to soft Core History.
Speaker 1: What is up? Welcome back to Softcore History. I am
your host for the week, Rob Fox, joined as always
by Dan Regester, and we have a very special guest
with us today, Alex Bush.
Speaker 3: What's up, guys? How you doing?
Speaker 2: Booosh is back?
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me guys, always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: We love you. Oh we just wanted to have you here, baby.
Speaker 3: Ah, I love I love you guys too. It feels
so warm and cozy here.
Speaker 2: Look I even cleaned up for you. I know. Man
got a haircut, trim the beard a bit.
Speaker 3: I did not trim my beard. It's out of control.
I had somebody threw change at me the other day.
Speaker 2: I got a haircut actually because somebody did that to
me as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Just he was a loaf of bread. That's you need this.
Speaker 3: That's like old cool. That's old school homeless people's stuff,
right there, loads of bread.
Speaker 2: Then somebody asked me for crank.
Speaker 1: Crank, not what's the one that rots your feet off crocodile? No,
it's fucking uh trank.
Speaker 3: Trank yeah, shrank Okay, yeah, that's not trank. Is a
ship where like you see people just fold it over
like they're standing but they're just like they.
Speaker 1: Got But also it also just like eats your limbs
like it's leprosy, but it gets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's also crocodile does that. I remember turns that
advice like ten years ago. Hell yeah, yeah, not good.
Speaker 1: That would be a funny thing to do to people,
Like it would be like a thing on YouTube or
like TikTok that would be funny the first time you
saw it, and then annoying the next thousand times you
saw it. I was just like walking up to like
dudes with beards sitting on a bench somewhere.
Speaker 2: I mean, like here, man, you know what I mean, Like, hey,
just putting quarters in their coffees.
Speaker 3: I saw, speaking of challenges in trank, I saw a
guy online and he's and he's like saving my boys
parking space in Philly, and he was just standing in
the middle of the parking space like folded over like
he was on trank and he was just staying in
there like a zombie. And yeah, I thought that was
pretty funny.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that we got a fun episode today. This
was something I found out about recently and had no
idea that it was. I had never heard of this before,
and it's one of the funniest things I think I've
ever heard about in American history. Like by far. Today
we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Setting the expectations high.
Speaker 1: We're talking about how the Navy got its reputation.
Speaker 3: For being hands for fucking each other in the butt.
Speaker 2: You're a hand, I'm a hand. Everyone's a hand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: It's not good dog, We're just hands.
Speaker 3: Oh, just a hand job.
Speaker 1: I've ever told you that story. But when I was
in college, I was out on the front port of
my fraternity house smoking cigarettes somebody else and this like
quasi semi homeless guy comes up, Like I think he
was probably sleeping in a ymca or something, and he wasn't,
like on the street on trank right, and he walks
up to bum a cigarette and we're like sure, And then,
like a homeless man is often wont to do, he
took that as an invitation to hang out and talk
to us, which it was not. We were like, take
a camel light, Yeah, take a camel light and go.
You're welcome to have it. And he was talking about
how he was in the Navy and about how he's
like in the Navy, you don't have a name. You're
on a submarine. Your name is Hand. Like, what do
you mean, Like, you're not Tim, you're not Bill? Your hand?
Speaker 3: Hey hand?
Speaker 1: Like what hand? Like deckhand?
Speaker 3: And he's like no hand, dickhand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just just jerk each other off. I guess
all the time.
Speaker 2: It's probably like that on an oil rig.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, any any situation where you're isolated away
from women for months on end, it's gonna get a
little little gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Not a lot of live Tyler's on an oil rig. Yeah,
no Armageddon style. But yeah, the Navy's always had a reputation.
I mean the veterans I know in the Army and
stuff like that always talk about like that. You know,
they're like, oh the Davies the gay well and blah
blah blah, like just you know, talk shit like they
do Marines, E crayons, Air Force doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2: Navy's gay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it goes. Well, stereotypes somewhat rooted in truth.
I imagine.
Speaker 1: Uh, Well, between this and the very real hand conversation
I had with an alleged Navy veteran, uh, it feels
like it might be but I think I cannot confirm
at no point it did my sources ever say this
is how that started. But I feel like this is
how that started.
Speaker 2: So you're just connecting dots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing the math. I'm Pepe Sylvia all over
the fucking board. I'm beautiful minding it. So here's what happened. Essentially.
It all kicked off at the Naval hospital on Naval
Station Newport in Rhode Island in nineteen nineteen. A chief
machinist's mate by the name of Irvin Arnold, who had
been in the Navy for fourteen years at that point.
He was I think like about forty years old. He
was there recovering from severe rheumatism and I don't know.
He's just in the hospital and he's talking to other
guys there. A lot of them are way younger because
it's the Navy, they're enlisted, and he's just like, hey, well,
how's the how's the nightlife in Newport? You know, what
do you guys go do? What bars do you hit?
And very soon into asking these questions, everyone was like,
you're looking for the gay ones. And this is nineteen nineteen,
so that's not a thing. It's not a thing. It
is extremely scanless. And he's like, what what you're looking for?
Speaker 2: A queer time? Yeah, I think there's this.
Speaker 1: Meant happy time back then they super didn't they meant
extremely gay. So he starts hearing rumors about like a
vibrant and a decadent gay nightlife in Newport, Rhode Island.
So finally he gets to talking to one of the
one patient there, the sailor Thomas Brunell. And Brunell I
don't I think at this point Arnold is like trying
to suss it out because he heard about it a
couple of times. It's actually worth mentioning that Arnold had
before he was in the navy, spent nine years as
a detective in Connecticut, I think, and one of his
main jobs specifically was hunting down homosexuals.
Speaker 3: Oh, so this was the mecca for him. This was
like he could bust a lot of gays going to
this place.
Speaker 1: He has law and order gay like just he was
just don't don't find like breaking up is the Christoph Waltz.
Speaker 3: Yes, are you hiding? Are you Harvard Gays? Here? I
hear Elton John playing in the basement.
Speaker 1: Oh you're not horboring homosexuals on to your flowball.
Speaker 2: It's right now, nineteen nineteen. It'd be more like, I'm
trying to think what was the artist at the time
that would have been associated with Flamboyancy Mozart.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's dead, been dead for two hundred years
at that point, but still probably gay. Oscar Wilde was
around that time.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: When An't Squad die. He died in nineteen hundred, famously
openly gay. So yeah, something like that. So Arnold starts
talking to the sailor Thomas Brunell, and he's like, I
think at this point he's got enough info. He's trying
to like suss it out, and he's like, hey, I
heard this, just like some cool stuff going down, you know,
like some cool like no girls, girls suck, you know,
don't you think so girls suck?
Speaker 2: Real Greek time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, real, yeah, what are you?
Speaker 3: Real?
Speaker 1: Greek stuff? What do you what do you know about it?
And Brunell, being young and naive, is like, oh, buddy,
let me tell you. We are fucking constantly. You want
to come, you want to come? It's awesome. Oh my god.
He spills everything. He immediately just it's just like oh,
you're looking for gay stuff. I got, I got you,
I know all of it. I'll tell you everything.
Speaker 3: And now he's just gonna be shooting fish in a barrel.
For him, there is He's still trying to bust gay people.
At this point.
Speaker 1: He was retired, but it came back to him.
Speaker 3: He was like, Okay, I'm gonna go bust them. And
what do you do when you bust a gay person?
Do you just like write them up, citizens, arrest them,
you throw.
Speaker 1: When he was a copy, he's throwing them in jail,
I guess. But the Navy would also throw them in
you know, naval.
Speaker 3: Prison court, martial them or whatever.
Speaker 1: So Brunell is like, yeah, dude, it's going down in Newport.
Navy guys and also just dudes from the town. We're
banging each other all the time.
Speaker 3: Dixon bots thumbs and bots outrageous fun everything.
Speaker 1: He's He's like doing it at the Army and Navy YMCA,
of course, and the Newport Art Club. He's like, it's great, dude,
we're getting fucked up. We're doing cocaine. True, this is true.
He's like getting fucked up. We're doing coke, we're banging,
and we're raging.
Speaker 3: So the YMCA has always been a go to spot
to get tugged by by fellow village people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, yeah, and Brunell even more than that, is like,
here's some of the people who are doing it. And
he starts to name and names. He's like, did you
ever want to bang that episcopal chaplain from town? You've
seen that nice.
Speaker 2: Piece of ass?
Speaker 1: He goes there, you can get it, you can get it.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm sorry, I've still hung up on the
YMCA thing. When I think of YMCA is I think
of the one I went to when I was a kid,
and that's where I went. I learned to swim, right,
so it's like all this.
Speaker 2: It's this place where I went to daycare.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a wholesome place where you got kids learning
to swim. Where do the gay people do their bacchanalia
at the YMC? Where does that happen? Is there a
sub room?
Speaker 2: Was there a base?
Speaker 3: So maybe the sauna?
Speaker 2: It's not, Oh, definitely a steam room.
Speaker 1: You don't go into the y m C a sauna,
you will you there will be legitimately just aerial born herpes.
Speaker 3: You know what new super harpies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just an aerosol of herpes. They're not every YMCA,
but uh some are. A fair amount of YMCAs have
like living quarters, not even a room of bed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for mainly for like people down on their luck.
Speaker 1: Yes, people imagine, well they're not homeless technically.
Speaker 3: They got the YMCA to stay at right right right.
But you get a cot, you get a cot, and
then you get a cock later.
Speaker 2: You cot cock hard cot hard hand.
Speaker 3: Well, see and see better than a bread bed and
breakfast being go for a C and C at the
y m c A.
Speaker 1: So he Brudell is like, yeah, dude, we're banging this
fucking chaplain. We're banging the librarian. You've been the library,
seen that guy banging.
Speaker 3: Them a male live?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty gay.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't think there's a single straight male library.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever seen a male librarian.
Speaker 3: I haven't. It's always a fat lady with the short
short cut here.
Speaker 1: It's uh, they're outlawed long ago for this for this reason,
and they just never took a law off the books.
And then he's also named like a hospital corman, like
he's like dude, like him, like they're like, there's a
guy in the hostels, like yeah that guy, that guy,
yeah yeah, me and him. So Arnold just decides to
go citizen amateur sleuth here and uh starts doing an
informal recon of like the YMCA, I.
Speaker 3: Have never seen such a wretched New York art club.
Speaker 1: So he goes in and he like confirms it, like
he just watches guy's bang and he's like, oh they're banging.
Speaker 3: Oh he's watching them just for research. Yeah, he's preparing. Uh,
this guy, I feel like he if you're that passionate
about arresting gay people, you are.
Speaker 1: Are also deeply closeted, homeless.
Speaker 3: They're deeply closeted, and it gets you off on watching
this happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh and also Brunelle was like, and you know
what else is sweet? Some of the dudes dress up
like chicks, so they're doing drag too, and and I'm
sure Arnold is just like motherfucker, like he's keeping it.
Speaker 4: As cool as he was really committed to the sting operation. Yeah,
real pro just the cop in South Park. So he goes, yeah,
he goes. He goes to these places.
Speaker 1: He sees cross dressing with like lipstick makeup that full
like full nine drag, but not like not like chapel Rone,
like modern drag. I think they're just like dressed like women.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 2: Chapel Rone is a female.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she still drags her mate shed. Yeah, she
does drag makeup despite being a lady lad.
Speaker 2: It turns out the way she treats kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no shit. It turns out that this whole group
of gay this gay this gay underground in Newport, they
call themselves the Ladies of Newport, so it's sort of
like their their name for themselves. And again yeah again, Brunell,
who the guy Arnold was talking to, is an active participant. Arnold,
like I said, goes to these places, sees the sex,
sees the blow, sees the blowing, sees the drag, compiles
a detailed report, and takes it to his navel.
Speaker 2: Wrote very descriptive, So.
Speaker 3: I don't think we needed all this detail. You you
mentioned that his his legs trembled as semen dripped down
his thighs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He kept using the word pulsing to describe many an
anus when the adjectives just of this nature don't have
any place in a police report.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to sir, it's six point seven five inches,
really an estimate.
Speaker 1: How did you get the to the decimo there to
the hundredth.
Speaker 3: Did you? I just he was just whipped out a
ruler and yeah, measured him down.
Speaker 1: This whole section on mouthfeel. Uh, boy, you have a
hell of a detective. Like, well, you're not a detective anymore.
You're in the navy. This was this was a hobby
at this point for you.
Speaker 2: Now this ain't no hobby for him.
Speaker 1: Grind never stops. Uh. He even got like info on
uh specific men and their reputations. So there was Billy
Hughes who was one of the drag queens. He went
by Salome when he was in drags.
Speaker 3: What is that? What is Salome?
Speaker 1: Salome is a is the character from the Bible who
was super hot and did a sexy dance for I
think her dad, King Herod and to convince him to
cut off John the Baptist's head.
Speaker 3: So wow, So it's like I want to convince my
dad to chop it guys head off, so I do
a sexy dance. Yeah that is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Happy Easter everyone. So he had recently actually starred
in drag at the naval station in a musical. But
that was actually super normal, like almost Shakespearean right, Like
like sailors or soldiers would put on shows. This was
even happened in World War Two, and they would like
the female characters played by men, and it was funny like.
Speaker 2: Oh, Steve's Drew still plick at chick.
Speaker 1: Oh. But Brunelle was like, yeah, you know the guy
who like played that funny like chick in that play. Dude,
he does it on the down low all the time.
And Hughes actually paid me to fuck him because he
wanted my dick so bad. And Arnold's just like just
writing it all down. He's like, oh you bad memory.
He's like, sure, just right, just like it's on his
fucking hit list. And Brunell also told him that hospital
Corman Fred Hogue or Hogy, I don't know, uh h
O g E h O g e h o A
g E Hogue Hogue. Uh he went he was a
drag queen who went by the name Theda Bara and
John Gianoli Giennaloney sorry, went by Ruth Bob. Yeah, And
Brunell told him specifically. This is in an Arnold report
that both of them were well known in the community
for their oral sex skills, incredible blowjobs. This guy was like, yeah,
those two best blow jobs in the whole fucking city. Dude,
I'm fucking telling.
Speaker 2: You, Wop's got a mouth on him.
Speaker 1: He also Brunell also told him.
Speaker 3: That Jay, and that's that's no small title in a
town full of people that sucked dick constantly. They're the
best of the best.
Speaker 1: I think they were second and third place. We'll get
to that in a minute, okay, So j Becky Goldstein, Jay,
Becky Goldstein.
Speaker 2: Becky with the good hair.
Speaker 1: What yeah, Becky with well Becky with the good chin.
Speaker 3: Actually Becky with the Adam's apple.
Speaker 1: Brunel told Arnold, and this is a quote from the
report that he had quote a nice chin to rest
a pair of balls on.
Speaker 2: This is just face fucking them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the most skilled oral member of the Ladies
of Newport was probably is that.
Speaker 2: A factor for you, guys? We no, just I love
the chin on her. No slap my balls all over chin.
Speaker 1: The chin is like a director or an umpire, right,
it's doing its job if you don't notice it. If
you notice it, there's a problem.
Speaker 2: There is a problem. Yeah, it just gets in the way.
You get nut tapped.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how it goes.
Speaker 2: So Frank Die by the Crimson Chin.
Speaker 1: Frank Die was so skilled at blowjobs. He could quote,
and this is I'm quoting again from a naval report.
He could quote, draw your brains out through your penis.
Speaker 3: And that's why we got the battleship the s s die.
Speaker 2: So we sucking you so good that you lose your brain,
You lose your mind.
Speaker 1: You're having a fucking from that ship.
Speaker 3: That that sounds. That's a hell of that's high praise.
That's high praise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good for him.
Speaker 2: Never had that that level. I don't know if I've
ever felt that.
Speaker 3: You never lost your mind. You're getting such good dome.
Speaker 2: No one's ever sucked my brain off.
Speaker 1: Damn maybe once or twice. There's still one that lives
in this bank bank prominently.
Speaker 2: It's your wife, of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, moving on.
Speaker 3: Uh it was the your your your childhood dog in
fifth grade and you put when you put some peanut
butter on you, Yeah, Chase, Chase stood up at that.
Speaker 2: He did.
Speaker 1: He got heard his call, he heard peanut butter.
Speaker 3: Uh, So that's why you got this dog, isn't it Dan,
Let's be real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got him on the Easter. He's wow.
Speaker 3: He is always Jesus Dog.
Speaker 1: He is the Jesus Dog. Arnold Arnold Off also found
out that these parties would spill over into apartments in
the in the city, Whitfield Court and Golden Hill Street.
Again it would be like sailors and then just random
dow Is from Newport salesman, waiters, the library, and the
cleric or the pastor or whatever. So again Arnold turned
it into the Navy and he's like, what we're gonna
do about this gay stuff? Found a whole bunch of
gay stuff. What are we gonna do about it? So
it gets to Admiral Spencer Wood and he orders, yeah right,
he orders a Court of inquiry and a March.
Speaker 3: Inquiry query queer would queer Beavis and butted?
Speaker 2: Episode is one?
Speaker 1: So in March nineteenth, nineteen nineteen, oh boy three and
the one thing a full probe is recommended.
Speaker 2: Said it was doing it to yourself.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I know, even the investigations into the gay
thing is just as gay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this gets all the way to the Assistant
Secretary of the Navy. Okay, a man by the name
A Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Speaker 2: Never heard of him, never heard of him.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have after this, based on how it turned out.
Speaker 2: Talking about a guy that got cranked off by his cousin.
Speaker 1: I know, right, He's like, we gotta look into this immorality.
He's getting jacked by his cousin. It's horrible horror.
Speaker 3: After you got jacked by his cousin.
Speaker 2: All the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his male cousin.
Speaker 1: No female? Oh I wish does the gender is less
important to me.
Speaker 3: Than the Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean I feel like
fucking your cousin back then wasn't that big a deal.
Speaker 1: He married his cousin, Oh wow, Eleanor Roosevelt. Her maiden
name was Roosevelt Jesus, first cousin, second cousin.
Speaker 2: Seems like a second might have been first and that
was the one that was jacking him.
Speaker 1: No, no, but he was like clearly banging multiple family members.
Speaker 2: He was not into Eleanor.
Speaker 1: Actually, I don't think Eleanor was super into him either.
Speaker 3: For what it's worth, she had she was not the
most lovely of women.
Speaker 1: I think she was a lover of women.
Speaker 3: Oh why did they get married?
Speaker 2: Then because it was the fucking like twenties power couple.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, money.
Speaker 2: Uh, there's no doubt though Churchill or maybe even Stalin
throw a hand FDR's way.
Speaker 3: Stallin jerked off FDR.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how we came together as two countries.
Speaker 1: You would surprise me. But if Churchill and FDR had like.
Speaker 2: Churchill was running around naked in the White House all.
Speaker 1: The what I was gonna say is, I don't know
if they jerked either off, but it might have been
like that South Park episode two guys in a hot
tub they watch each other jerk off, Like, I buy that.
If someone told me that, I wouldn't even look into it.
Speaker 2: Was there still a pool at that point where I
know Jackie put it cement in the pool?
Speaker 1: I think so?
Speaker 2: I think so, Kennedy, how long was the pool actually at.
Speaker 3: The White House?
Speaker 1: How long was a pool at the White House?
Speaker 2: To see? I don't know when it was built Jackie?
Speaker 3: Did Jackie do that because she was sick of him
having sexy parties in there? The woman?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was built for FDR. There you go, Gerald Ford,
by the way, put in another pool that's still there. Yeah,
So FDR is like, whoa this is crazy, and he
asks Attorney General Mitch Palmer or yeah, Mitch Palmer to
look into it, but Palmer's like, I don't know, man.
So FDR just takes over. This is his investigation. I
was like, fuck that, we're looking into this, and he
creates a secret file called Section A, office of the
Assistant Secretary of the Navy. He FDR meets with Arnold personally,
as well as the welfare officer of the Naval station,
doctor Hudson, to set up logistics and sign orders on
how to deal with this. FDR was the point, like
the head of this operation. So they work out the
mission and how the operation would want would run to
figure out which sailors were gay. He signed the confidential
orders and explicitly ordered he thought it was so secret
and so important, but it's clearly so fucked up that
what he wrote there was the only written communication in
regard to the affair. And he promised for the investigation.
He was like, this is this is real. Hush hush.
We're gonna get everyone and then bring out all our
results at the end. But while we do the investigation,
no one's going to know about it about us. So
if you need money to infiltrate this group. Just hit
me up and I'll pay for it personally. So FDR
almost certainly personally paid for cocaine at a gay orgy.
Speaker 2: It's been a worse way to spend government money.
Speaker 1: Millions of worse way. Well, it wasn't government money. He
bankrolled it himself. That came from his personal checkbook.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you know. He took some off the
top every now and then.
Speaker 1: So why would FDR be so invested in this? He thought,
if he could do this right, it would be a
huge political win for him. Obviously he had gigantic political ambitions,
and he thought, this is going to be a feather
in my cap if I get all the.
Speaker 2: Gaze out of the Navy, a spring and a step.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he even knew back then that the Navy was
rife with gays, and this is my way to get
rid of him.
Speaker 1: So FDR, before the mission goes off, contacts an attorney
just to be like, all right, I'm gonna give you
the deets of what we're doing here. Is any of
this not illegal or like, you know, will this work?
And somehow the attorney, I guess told him like, uh,
it sounds fine. Sounds fine, Now what was the mission?
The plan was to honeypot the gay sailors with hot
young twinks sent aboard the ships to seduce them.
Speaker 2: How old, though was a problematic.
Speaker 1: FDR had Arnold recruit about fourteen attractive young enlisted men
based purely on looks and youth.
Speaker 3: So FDR vetted them himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a soft, pretty face.
Speaker 3: I like that one, didn't Why didn't they just go
to Newport and just like raidid do a raid?
Speaker 1: Nah, that's too easy.
Speaker 2: You have to entrap them.
Speaker 1: You got to get the evidence on.
Speaker 3: Hand, so literally get that seeming all over your hand.
That is what did they call this operation? Have been named?
Speaker 1: They did not have a name for the operation.
Speaker 3: Operation boy Pussy.
Speaker 1: It was just like secret file or section A off.
Speaker 2: Of it whatever, Operation otter.
Speaker 1: Obviously, keep in mind, keep in mind the otter.
Speaker 3: Is a is a is a twink with with more hair,
who's a little older, Yes, youthful.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, this is the Navy in nineteen nineteen,
so they grabbed young recruits. Ten of the fourteen were
between the ages of nineteen and sixteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, there's probably a couple of
fourteen and sixteen year olds that lied about their age.
Speaker 1: Nope, didn't even lie. It's nineteen nineteen. It's fine. Yeah,
So they get some sixteen year olds in on this.
So they meet on March sixteenth, nineteen nineteen, to briefit.
Speaker 3: And they decided by having a Runway show. And they's
just like our FDR is just sitting in his wheelchair
judging them, like he's not a judge Runway, not in
a wheelchair yet, and they're just dropping it.
Speaker 2: They just have a giant pile of cocaine and they're like,
just put your face in it.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, get your tolerance up because you're gonna
be doing a lot of it.
Speaker 3: FDRs like checking out their outfits before they go on stage.
Make it work. Make it work, ladies.
Speaker 1: So they have this meeting like the decoys or whatever,
not the decoys, the honey potters, and essentially they're given
a couple instructions. These are the rules. Keep your eyes
and ears open for everything, be quote jolly and good natured.
Get as much information as you can from these men.
You suspect pose as what the Navy called this quote
a boy humper. So tell them you're gay.
Speaker 3: Don't have to tell me twice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make dates with these men, and that.
Speaker 3: Might be the hardest part of getting a date. I
think they just go straight for the boy humping part.
Speaker 1: We'll make a date for the boy humping, okay, like
be like set up a time where you should go
bang each other at the PIMCA real quick. Before we
keep going, we do have some ads first up, as
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you play your first five dollars lineup. If they deemed
it necessary, they were allowed quote. I'm sorry, let's just
get the quote. This is from This is from the rules.
This is a quote from the rules. You are allowed
to quote allow immoral acts to be performed upon you.
Nice if you think it's necessary to quote trap. This
is in the thing cocksuckers and rectum receivers.
Speaker 3: Goodness, gracious rector. But what if you're a rectum giver?
What if you're a if.
Speaker 1: You're receiver, well, well that's what I'm wondering. So it
says you're allowed to have immoral acts performed upon you.
So does that mean you can bottom Like, you can't
fuck them, that's fucked up. But if they fuck you,
good job?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I don't know, man.
Speaker 1: And also they can blow you.
Speaker 3: But like the cock receiver and what was the other one.
Speaker 2: Listen, my dick's just going to be here. If something right,
happens to uh be on it right?
Speaker 3: That that that feels more straight and like you just
like wanted to get off. You know, I don't care
who blows me. I just want to feel a warm
mouth on my on my on my dicky any mouth. Yeah,
an he holes a goal.
Speaker 1: My name is Tim, my name's mouth.
Speaker 3: That's you know, that's like you're straight but desperate but
receiving a dick in the ass. That's just it's just
straight up gay no matter how you how you slice it.
Speaker 2: I don't know how covert you are. You're pretty open.
Speaker 1: What if you're bottoming?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well.
Speaker 1: They were I guess allowed to bottom. They were definitely
allowed to get blow jobs because a lot of these
honey potters get their dick sucked, like a lot of them.
Speaker 3: So the best man in their lives.
Speaker 1: What follows after this meeting is essentially just weeks of
coke and gay sex for these dudes who were like
recruited to catch cake dudes.
Speaker 3: I cannot believe there's not an official operation name for this.
I know, like.
Speaker 2: Terrence uh keeps wanting to sign up for these missions.
He's very enthusiastic.
Speaker 1: Well, so I'll just skip to this part real quick,
because we were almost at it.
Speaker 3: I can't believe. This isn't like a comedy movie or so.
Speaker 1: This is just so I know. There was one guy,
one of the honey potters, all the president's queens. There
was one of the honey potters. Uh, he got a
blowjob and comes back and reports it, and they're like, great,
what's his name, name and rank? And the guy was like,
oh shit, fuck, I never asked. I forgot to ask him.
And they're like, goddamn it, sailor, all right, go.
Speaker 3: Back, get your perfect butt back out there.
Speaker 1: You get it having to suck your dick again and
get his name this time.
Speaker 2: And that happened like four or five times.
Speaker 1: No, it happened again. He comes back again and he's like,
I forgot to ask.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's just.
Speaker 3: He's just trying to make it last.
Speaker 2: He's literally sucking his brain out getting milk. Dude.
Speaker 3: Yes, she sucked his brain right out to the tip.
Speaker 1: Uh. There were some official notations in their service records
of these honey potters, because they were in the Navy
in recognition, in recognition of their interest in zeal for
accepting oral sex. So they were like they're getting like ribbons.
They're like, good job, you got five blow jobs today.
You're serving your country.
Speaker 2: Where's a gold star?
Speaker 3: Yeah he puts that, puts that on his h on
his breast plate, next to the fucking purple heart and ship.
Yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 2: They it's just a white trip.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They had a specific instances on some of the guys.
The name before. Frederick Hoag, the hospital hospital apprentice, allegedly
met a tallmarine at the YMCA who he called his husband,
and Hoague paid the guy for sex. Reverend Samuel Neil Kent,
a prominent Episcopalian chaplain in Newport and the head of
sailor's Welfare. Uh. Charles Ziff was one of the honey potters,
and he invited the reverend for a drink and then
reverend was like, hey, why don't you come back to
my rectory, my parish house or whatever they call it.
Speaker 2: Got plenty of wine there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they go back and Kent uh just starts
making out with Ziff, grabbed his dick and uh promised,
you know, to just be between us, you know, we'll
just do it. And I assume they did, to be honest.
Another guy, Jay Goldstein, was honey potted by William Crawford.
Speaker 2: Wait was that a part of the story or do
you have flashbacks of your own time as an altar boy?
Speaker 1: I'm not a piscopillion, okay, but I don't remember anything,
not a not a single fucking thing. They started arresting
people on April fourth. By April twenty second, fifteen sailors
were in custody and almost twenty had been More than
twenty had been arrested. They were being held in solitary confinement.
Speaker 3: Damn, it's pretty brutal just for doing some gay sex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna separate them or else they're gonna vacation.
Speaker 1: Yes, Seventeen sailors faced court martial for sodomy and scandalous conduct.
Most were convicted and sent to the Portsmouth Naval Prison
in Maine for like twenty to thirty.
Speaker 3: Years, where they had the time in their lives.
Speaker 1: Apparently, the brig aboard the USS Constellation filled so fast
that Lieutenant Commander Foster of the USS Constellation, Sorry, the
head of the Court of Inquiry, was worried that if
the investigation wasn't concluded soon, they'd have to hang the
whole state of Rhode Island. He's just like, everyone's bang
at each other.
Speaker 3: Goddamn, just get to stop.
Speaker 1: You're arresting too many people. Everyone here is clearly gay.
Speaker 3: Rhode Island is still an extremely gay place to this day,
is it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's rainbow flags in
every street corner there.
Speaker 2: There's like two things in Rhode Island. It's the Providence
Mafia and the gays.
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift lives there.
Speaker 3: So is there any overlap between those two?
Speaker 2: Oh? Almost certainly.
Speaker 1: Almost fabulous mafia says, everyone's veto in the Providence Mafia. Unfortunately,
I guess. Unfortunately for the investigators, they went a bridge
too far. It was one thing to bust the sailors,
but once they started targeting civilians, word got out in
the community and they were none too please. Because the
Reverend Samuel Neil Kent, who was definitely doing all of this,
had a stellar reputation in the community, upstanding citizen, tons
of charity. He was arrested by the Naval investigation for
soliciting sex from sailors, and the trial that came from
that is what sparked the national outrage and scandal from
it all because he was first tried in a civilian court,
and the judge and jury were like to the Navy,
they were like, you did what, Like, you just got
a bunch of teenage twinks to honey pot dude to
go ask them for gay sex, and then when they
did it, you arrested them.
Speaker 2: So he got off in multiple ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the judge and by the way, I'm sure the judge.
Speaker 3: Was not like like entrapment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure the judge was not like woke at all.
It's nineteen nineteen, but he was still like this, let
me get this fucking straight.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's nothing straight about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a bunch of lithe boys to put
on sailor uniforms and ask just walk around asking for
blowjobs until they got him. And then you arrested the
dudes who they asked. What the fuck is wrong with you?
They're like, if anyone's corrupting people, it's you. You kept
sending them out there to get their.
Speaker 3: Dick sucked, tempting what would have been good upstanding men.
Speaker 1: He's a man of faith, and he's like and then yeah,
and then he didn't even stop. With the Navy, you
just started trying to arrest anyone you could. You have
no authority to arrest the this man, the fuck is
wrong with you? And also Kent denied everything. He's like,
I didn't do this, and they're like, but the evidence
you're presenting to the day, They're like, the evidence you're
presenting is that like how you found it? Was you
prostituted boys. They're like, god, damn it. So everyone in
Newport loses their phone.
Speaker 2: So the US government's been doing this for a while.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, apparently everyone in Newport and Rhode Island is like,
what the fuck. Then they tried to get the reverend
again on naval grounds by saying he there was like
a statute that prohibited moral contamination within ten miles of
a military base. And the second trial also a disaster
for the Navy and for Arnold, because it meant either
the government was providing cover for homosexuals or by employing
them to sniff out their own or they were knowingly
just turning normal young men into gaze by having them
go out and get their dick sucked. So they're like,
they're like, which one is it? Neither is good? Which one?
And they were just like, ah, boy, they're gay. We
did it. And the whole time Kent, you know, denies it.
Several other Newport clergymen were furious and wrote an angry
letter to Woodrow Wilson, and they named FDR and the
Secretary of the Navy, Joseph Daniels in it. In the
Providence Journal there was a like brutal op ed published
by their editor, John R. Ratham, and FDR was furious.
He fired off telegrams at Wratham. He was like, fuck you,
how dare you write this about the Navy? This is
gonna hurt our recruitment.
Speaker 3: Wait. FDR ordered this whole thing to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like, if you you publishing this, it's
hurting our recruitment numbers. And I assume Ratham was like, no,
you know what's hurting your recruitment numbers is that people
sign up and then you make them go of gay sex. Yeah,
that's turning your recruitment numbers. That a bunch of boys
signed up to be in the Navy and you say, hey, son,
you want.
Speaker 3: For America.
Speaker 1: You've got a nice chin boy, Why don't you come
on over here tell you what you're gonna do.
Speaker 3: So some of these twinks were not even gay.
Speaker 1: No, I mean I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I don't know, good Lord.
Speaker 2: After a certain amount of acts, I think it's just
a title you earn.
Speaker 1: Your resume speaks for itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: At that point, that's crazy, fucking livid.
Speaker 2: He's just like, there's just real patriots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what have you done for your country?
Speaker 3: I sucked. I got my dick sucked by twenty gay men.
For this country.
Speaker 2: I had a prolapse pro labs.
Speaker 3: The AAN is for this country. It's just like Grandpa,
like a pink sock between my.
Speaker 1: Legs, Grandpa, what did you do in the navy? I
can't tell you. Wow, he was to saw some stuff.
Yeah that's not the stuff you think. You just really
can't tell you because you're a nine year old and
you're asking, yep, come back and let you know.
Speaker 3: This is say, there's a reason he sits on a
donut to this day.
Speaker 2: So every soldier that comes back and refuses to talk
about war, this is actually what they're thinking about.
Speaker 1: Their honeypotting other dudes. The scandal got so bad and
so national that a Senate subcommittee, the Committee on Naval Affairs,
investigated it from nineteen twenty to nineteen twenty one because
obviously they were like, I'm sorry, the assistant Secretary of
the maybe ordered what God, God damn it.
Speaker 5: Oh so Lewis, the senators Lewis Ball and Henry Keyes
where the like main people investigating it.
Speaker 1: And they're what they what they deduce from evering was
devastating for FDR. In particular, they called the methods reprehensible.
They explicitly quoted the instructions that FDR and Arnold gave
to the young sailors, which was let them blow you
let them. We need it. We need hard evidence.
Speaker 2: Any place, anywhere, anytime.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they condemned FDR and Daniels, who was I
think the Secretary of the Navy, even though he said
he didn't have anything to do with it, for violating
the rights of citizens and enlisted men because the citizens
obviously like, ah, the Navy has no jurisdicition be there
entrapping them, and the enlisted men because they had they
just grabbed and listed better. We're like, yeah, you're gonna
you're gonna have.
Speaker 2: Sex with k guys orders or orders.
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about a white stain on FDR's career.
Speaker 1: You would think, Uh, so FDR get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sitting your fucking pud dude jizz.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they said FDR was morally responsible and should never
hold public office. Again, FDR, he never did, and he
never did. FDR testified during this and was defiant. He
claimed he only knew about the broad investigation and had
no detailed knowledge of the sex acts, which is complete bullshit.
Speaker 3: There were no broads involved in this investigation.
Speaker 1: He knew everything that was going on, real hands on guy.
But he did resign as Assistant Secretary of the Navy
in July nineteen twenty, but he did so to run
for vice president, which he did not get. Now, this
is probably the worst thing of the whole thing, and
it makes me actually hate FDR more than anything. It
is like, and I actually respect FDR. I think he
was a great president, But I mean he's a complicated guy.
Speaker 2: But king World War two?
Speaker 1: What do you what can you say about that? But anyway,
FDR later blamed the stress of him being accused of
these things that he did in the Senate hearing for
his nineteen twenty one polio contraction. Jesus, he was like,
you people gave me polio because you accused me of
doing something that I absolutely did.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, and for.
Speaker 1: The next fifteen years he fucking hated Senator Henry Keys.
Speaker 2: Well people don't actually know this, but polio has only
spread through the annis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how it gets you in public pools, jumps
up your ass.
Speaker 2: So people have questions in public pools.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, it was a very common thing. Wow, very
common way to contract it in public pools. Not of chlorine,
I guess not. I don't know how.
Speaker 2: The pH levels were off too much.
Speaker 3: P Also did all the gay people they arrested because
it was entrapman? Did they let them go?
Speaker 1: They did? So it was actually through the it was
it was asked to mouth, so people would like fart
in the pool or maybe like shark a little bit
in the pool. Boom, Oh my god. So yeah, I
guess chlorine wasn't wasn't doing well at the time, and
it can survive for weeks outside the body.
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 1: So every summer I would just never go to a
public pool. There's no amount of heat where I'm like, yeah,
I'll take the risk.
Speaker 3: I grew up on a public pool wenmore though, Well,
it's coming back, it's coming back. Do we got to
get those vaccines going again? Sorry? Everyone.
Speaker 2: Nah, I think we need to have a nice little
run of.
Speaker 3: Polio fin the hurt a little bit.
Speaker 1: Let them see. All of the men held at Portsmouth
were released due to a violation of their due process,
and actually, weirdly, following this investigation, two senators got a
little woke about the government's policy regarding homosexuals. At the time,
they were like, guys, it's not a crime to be gay,
it's an illness. Stop putting it in prisons. Start putting
them in sanitariums arguably worse. At the time, it's philosophically
a step in the right direction. Yes, Practically, on a
practical level, it was that great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So
it did kind of like change views a little white
to be like, like, these guys were like just standing
around and some boy comes up and waves his wiener
at him like they were entrapped. I don't know, it
changed minds. I guess that this obviously did not sink
FDR's political career, and in fact, in subsequent biographies this
is like completely papered over.
Speaker 3: So did all these gay people get sent Some of
them probably weren't even gay, they were just torny did
they all get sent to sanitariums or asylums.
Speaker 1: No, these guys were just well I don't I don't
know their fates, but a lot of them were just released.
But it did fuck up their lives, I'm sure because
it was like on their record or why were you
court martialed? They were still court martialed and parents, right,
so a lot of them had their lives still absolutely
ruined by this.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that is the story of how the Navy
possibly got its reputation because this was a massive national scandal. Wow,
that FDR somehow skated on. I don't know how you
don't bring that up. I mean in the nineteen thirty
two election.
Speaker 3: I mean the the Navy had to already be fairly
gay to have such a hub.
Speaker 1: I mean it only took it only took place in Newport,
Rhode Island. That they obviously happening elsewhere obviously, but the
stories only came out of Newport because just the one guy, Arnold,
the ex detective, was like, hey, what's a good place
to grab a beer? And they're and said someone was
just like I know a good place to Hey, your
dick suck, and it just snowballed.
Speaker 3: Textbook oversharing from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, snowballed.
Speaker 3: Snowballed from mouth to mouth all the way to FDR.
Speaker 2: And then his legs didn't work.
Speaker 1: He blamed this gave him polio.
Speaker 3: I mean, if if butthole to mouth gives you polio,
then maybe this did give him.
Speaker 1: How deep was sucked on some.
Speaker 2: Fat in this well? You said he was a micro manager, right,
he was hands.
Speaker 3: On one, sampled those twinks for himself.
Speaker 1: If a man with a cigarette in one of those
cigarette holders, like FDR liked, I forgot there's a call.
Speaker 3: I think just a cigarette holder just.
Speaker 1: Walked into a dark room one day. Hey, boys, a
lot of good art in this new Port out house.
I got a piece of right here for you, who's interested?
But he forgot the guy's name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when did he become a mobster?
Speaker 1: I don't know. He just reminds me of the Penguin
a little bit with that cigarette holder. M Oh yeah,
Like I just always get Penguin vibes from FDR.
Speaker 2: I would like to see an FDR movie with Danny
DeVito as FDR. FDR.
Speaker 1: Uh, what'd you guys learn today?
Speaker 2: A lot all about this New Rhode Island was gay
as Hell, along with Delaware. But for some reason, our
smallest states are always the gayest to the Twin States.
Speaker 1: Small.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I learned, I learned all about this. Who had
no idea that this happened. It's it's a crazy story.
Speaker 1: The Navy recruited young fresh recruits to prostitute themselves in
order to bust.
Speaker 2: Gay dudes, to entrap gay men, to say fucking hoard
out teens.
Speaker 1: Literally, Yeah, sixteen seventeen years old.
Speaker 3: God, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: So next time somebody asked you how much do you
love your country?
Speaker 3: Suck? Are you willing to suck dozens of cocks for
your country?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, okay, they couldn't do the sucking.
Speaker 3: They had to them or get bottomed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah apparently.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's but you've got to be able to put
your body on the line.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, because I guess again, that doesn't make sense
if if you're able to do get your dick sucked,
but you're allowed to get fucked. I guess because you're
receiving your both passuations past passive in both of them. Yeah,
but getting fucked in the ass is so much garer
than getting.
Speaker 2: You just don't get lost in the pubes all right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's obviously very little rhyme or reason to
any of this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just you know, I'm just trying to put
my put my brain in FDRs and and see his
reasoning here.
Speaker 1: I wonder how much it even because I didn't look
FDR's Wikipedia page, I wonder how much it even prominently
figures on his Wikipedia.
Speaker 2: It's probably not even mentioned.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, this is a deep cut, dude. I've never
heard of this.
Speaker 1: I just control Aft Command, Aft Newport, and it's not
it's not even in there. Like you wouldn't know this
if you read his entire.
Speaker 2: Wicked Wikipedia protecting their own Yeah, uh.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, just as he left, how did you find.
Speaker 3: Out about this?
Speaker 1: Uh? Random real I saw.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's a real history. Damn. We gotta get I
think this is a chance for you to make a
Wikipedia edit that might not get buffed out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I need to put this factual factual.
Speaker 3: I'd say try to put it, push for it to
be in the intro.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna have it be. I'm just gonna have this.
Speaker 3: If you know, if like Louis c k is going
to have in his intro that he you know, stood
in front of a doorway and jerked off for some
female comedians.
Speaker 2: After asking permission.
Speaker 3: Exactly. They thought he was joking. But you know, I
think this deserves to be on FDR at the top
of the page. The will needs to know what he did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. Who's today is Hitler.
Speaker 3: FDR? Ironically enough?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Dan.
Speaker 2: Well, in order to take down Hitler, you have to
become Hitler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, you.
Speaker 1: Have to understand his methods.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he'd imprisoned a bunch of people just for trying
to get their rocks off, a bunch of gay men
just for being gay. That's pretty hitler ish.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, like, we don't even know if
all of them were like gay gay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were just might have been, like I said,
just horny. Yeah, they're just like, well, my wife hasn't
sucked my dick in twenty years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly some of them were absolutely gay, but others, yeah,
who knows. And also he had the other dudes who
were may or may not have been gay become like
gay catfishes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Patriots patriots yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Some of them presumably bled for their country.
Speaker 2: Almost certainly, I put on the line. I mean, if
this is their first time, it's you think it's going
to be an easy squeeze in.
Speaker 3: Now he has a not on a YMC a bed
right next to his bronze star. He has a chocolate
starfish on his chest. Do you think they have.
Speaker 2: Plenty of lube back then or all those Italian dudes
just us an olive.
Speaker 1: Oil vaciline was invented. Gotta think they were fine on
that one imagines all greased up. Yeah, but yeah, that's
that's all I got for today. On FDR's Newport Sex scannel,
how the Navy got its reputation potentially, But yeah, boosh,
always a pleasure having you.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Now I kind of understand why somebody in a sub
would want to hit the nuclear option.
Speaker 1: He's just been prostituted out for weeks by his captain.
Speaker 2: I want to see the world burn. I can't take it,
eddie boy, I can't go back.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So do you love your country?
Speaker 3: I got a job?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god. I was like jaw on the floor,
like reading all this, like how did this fucking happen?
Speaker 3: This is this is crazy?
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's all I got for today. Check us
out on Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash softcore History. Please
leave reviews on Apple. Both the star rating and a
written review has Spotify. Just a five star rating helps
us out. Leave a comment that helps us out too.
But yeah, it's all I got for today.
Speaker 2: For Danner Jester, she want to pump anything? Oh yeah,
uh yeah.
Speaker 3: Check me out at What's Up Boosh on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Mostly Rob's as bad to our guest as FDR was
to his soldiers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you basically fucked me and asked mana, let me
plug myself.
Speaker 1: That's true. I apologize.
Speaker 2: I apologize.
Speaker 3: I'll let you just forgiving.
Speaker 1: I'll let you talk my dick later.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, Zaddie.
Speaker 1: So yeah, follow Boosh, follow Boosh at What's Up boush. Yeah.
For Damn Regester and Alex Bichevy, I'm Rob Fox.
Speaker 2: You just got saucer