FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Chase McCarty

Tonight, AI and software engineer, Chase McCarty, joins us for a discussion about his work with Remote Viewing and using tech to advance RV work... this is an amazing conversation!

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Speaker 1: The Smoke Radio for the Masses. Headline edition July 8, 1947.

The Army Air Forces has announced that a flying disc

has been found and is now in the possession of

the Army.

Speaker 2: If the game is rigged, change the game.

Speaker 1: Game changer.

Speaker 3: I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish

if we were facing an alien threat.

Speaker 2: From outside this world.

Speaker 1: This is Fade to Black with your host, Jimmy Church,

on the Game Changer Radio Network.

Speaker 2: All right. Good evening. How you doing? Fade to Black. Yeah.

Today's Tuesday. I said it like the Matrix. Tuesday. Tuesday. Tuesday,

you help your landlady take out her garbage. Best scene ever.

Best scene ever. Today's Tuesday, September 22nd, 2026. I'm going

to assume a church. Let's do this, man. Yeah. What

a day. What a day. But this week on Fade

to Black, last night Patricia Corey was here live from

the Azores. CERN and shifting realities, great conversation last night. Tonight,

Chase McCarty is with us, live from San Francisco. We're

going to be talking remotely about remote viewing. Tomorrow night,

Whitley Streber is back with us. He's got a new

book out, Transformation 2026. And then Thursday night, wrapping up

the week, William Henry. And it's going to be an

all-Gobekli Tepe, all-night-long kind of show. All right, all right.

So before I bring Chase in, my mind works funky.

And you enjoy that. The Matrix, when it came out,

I didn't know about the movie. There was no buzz.

It just kind of launched. And I opened up the

LA Weekly looking for movies, movie theater, you know, across

the street, Sherman Oaks. And premiering tonight, The Matrix. Not

The Matrix. So I, you know, I, oh, okay. Keanu, okay.

All right. Didn't really understand what they were saying. But,

you know, science fiction. So I went to go see it.

I walked out of The Matrix not understanding a thing

of what I just saw. I thought it was cool.

But I knew. So that week, I went back to

the theater. Twice. So I saw The Matrix three times

in a week. Same theater, by the way. Not big crowds.

I think probably by the third time I saw it,

I was the only person there. But I started to

unpack it. All right. So a few months later, I

think it's on DirecTV. I watched it. Then it comes

out on DVD, and I buy it. And I got

the special edition. You remember when they used to have

the commentary? I used to listen to that. Anyway, so

I get the special edition DVD. It's got a making

of two DVD set. But I get to that scene,

all right, with the agents. And they've got Keanu and

Neo in the interrogation room. And that scene, I sat

there with my laptop and I transcribed it, the whole scene.

And then I printed it out. And I literally would

act out that scene. I thought that that scene, the

movie itself was perfect, but that scene was extraordinary. So, so,

so good. And to this day, you help your landlady

take out her garbage. Garbage. Oh, man. Okay. All right.

Now it's going to be, that's it. I'm going to

watch The Matrix tonight after the show. Tonight we're going

to do remote viewing. One of my favorite things. We

talk about it a lot here on the show. I don't.

understand how it happens. I know that the phenomenon is

real and it's amazing. And I love learning about it.

Chase McCarty is with us tonight. He's the founder of

Social RV. We're going to be talking about remote viewing.

We're going to talk about AI and artificial intelligence and

how AI may be helping or support remote viewing. I

think that that is a really good fit, by the way.

We're going to jump into that, how to remote view, right,

and maybe take some lessons. So we're going to do

all of that tonight and much more. He's a geek. Yeah,

you can laugh, Chase. I'm watching you right now. He's

a nerd. Yeah. He's a software engineer in San Francisco.

He's an AI specialist. And he's the founder of Social RV.

I've been checking out the website. It's really good. It's

a well thought out platform. So you can go and

check that out. The links for it are below over

on our website and throughout social media. And so because

he deals with tech up in Silicon Valley and he's

interested in remote viewing, that's a natural progression, isn't it?

How do you merge the two? So we're going to

do all of that and talk about some human perception tonight.

I would like to welcome for the first time to

Fade to Black, Chase McCarty. He's right there. Chase, how

are you doing, man?

Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm an

ultra nerd, I think.

Speaker 2: So, well, before we get started to get the first

time guest disclaimer, I've got so many questions and I

don't want to forget that. So the first time guest

disclaimer is, Chase, it's just you and I sitting on

my couch having a conversation as friends. And where that

conversation starts, it starts. Where it ends, it ends. But

we're going to end as friends. Now, you have to

click on the box and accept my terms and conditions.

I accept. Were you looking for the box? See, you are.

Well played. Well played. Now, let me ask you this.

Society loves our geeks. Without you guys, nothing's happening. Okay?

All right? We adore you. We embrace you. But you

guys aren't necessarily social. Right? So is this right now,

is this natural for you, what we're doing? And I

won't tell you how many people are, you know, listening

to the show on 50 different networks. Will that freak

you out?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I would say on average, you're definitely

correct that the nerds tend to have worse social aptitude.

I'm surviving. I'm better than average, I think, talking to

people for a nerd and kind of sharing, bridging the gap.

But yeah, no, it's true for sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And when you go up, and I love

San Francisco. San Francisco does not love Los Angeles, but

that's another show for another time. That being said, when

I go to San Francisco and specifically, you know, out

towards the Bay and San Mateo and, oh, that's where

you are, right? And all those campuses that are around there.

And you go into town, any one of those little towns,

and it reeks of money, by the way. You just

look around. It just looks like money, feels like money.

But it's all geeks all the time. PACs.

Speaker 1: It's a very strange place. If anybody who's seen that

HBO show Silicon Valley, I will say that not only

is that show 110% accurate, but you have to rewatch

it every couple of years because there will be a

whole bunch of jokes you didn't get before until that

thing happened to you in real life. For sure. Now

I got that joke.

Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Silicon Valley nailed it. I mean, really.

They really did, man. They really nailed it. Yeah. But

it's really funny for us normies, right, that don't know

anything about code or anything about anything, barely know what

a modem is, you know, and that's ancient history. But

you walk around there and you're like, oh, there are

thousands of them. right? It's crazy. You know, I just

love it. I love it. Okay. So welcome to the show.

And the idea behind Social RV, yeah, we're talking about

social habits of geeks and your platform's called Social RV.

So that's pretty good too as well.

Speaker 1: Perfect.

Speaker 2: Yeah. When I was introducing you and I mentioned I'm

always trying to increase my knowledge on remote viewing. I

love the subject. I love what it is. I've got,

you know, I've interviewed just about everybody in the remote

viewing world. But there's one thing that because of what

remote viewing is, technology is Assisting it seems like the

perfect marriage. Am I flying close here?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. I think of all of

the different like esoteric traditions, remote viewing kind of lends

itself the most to technology and to scientific study, stuff

like that. Part of the reason I got into remote

viewing was because I was interested in the esoteric topics

in general. And I was really interested to see if

there was any way I could personally find out if

they were true by running my own tests and my

own experiments rather than just like reading a book and

taking somebody's word for it. And remote viewing wasn't the

only one that I tried, but it was the only

one that I felt I could really measure reliably compared

to the other ones. Because if you have a crazy

out-of-body experience or a crazy LSD trip and you meet

God or something like that, it's pretty hard to validate

that and tell, was that just in my head or

did something actually happen? Whereas remote viewing, it's there. It's

on the page. You can compare it to the target.

You can easily measure it. It's much more obvious.

Speaker 2: Now, you're also, you're in the mecca, right? You're in

the hub of technology on this planet, right? That's where

you are. You don't have to disclose, but do you

work for one of the big tech companies? Or do

you work, are you incubating? What are you doing? Oh,

I just said, I just said a geek term.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've worked at a couple of big tech companies,

names everyone here would recognize. I've also done startups. So

I was like the first employee at an AI startup

back in 2023 that ended up getting bought. And now

I lead some AI teams at a very large tech

company in the Bay. It's the largest gaming company in

the world. I'd rather not say, so it's not in

the transcript, but it's the largest gaming company in the

world in the headquarters in San Mateo. You can go

figure it out.

Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. I know who that is. We all do.

But the reason why I'm asking, are you able to

talk about remote viewing in your interest at the office?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. So it actually kind of

boils down to two different types of geeks. And some

are like very excited to talk about it and very

interested in the topic. And then some are like, no,

that can't happen. Like you must be wrong. And those

people are less fun to talk about. So I certainly

have shared this project with like most of my friends

at work. And it's like a fun way to like

weed out like who's more open to strange things. Tend

to be like the really early adopters, the people who

are like willing to try new strange technology. They get

excited about it. Yeah, there's there's certainly like a large

cohort of people that are really interested in that. I

think California also has a rich history of that kind

of lends itself to that. There's a lot of weirdos

in California. It's like, you know, the Mecca in the

world for cults. for weird esoteric traditions to a degree, right?

So we've got like a rich history of that as well.

Also got a lot of people interested in the UAP

topic because of the physics behind it and stuff like that.

So even there's like tech founders, like, you know, Palmer

Luckey famously is like very excited about UAP technology and

stuff like that. So it's not too much of a

taboo topic, I would say, especially if you're approaching it

in like a responsible way, right? And you're not like

being too woo woo and crazy about it. I think

people like to talk about it here.

Speaker 2: Well, and has anybody, because this is the thing, everybody's

always thinking, right? And so they hear about what you're

working on and now you get input from somebody else.

Do they suggest certain types of tech that may help

not only test, but maybe assist remote viewing?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. I think that like

the average person that I would talk to that's a

friend at work probably doesn't know enough about the space

to make recommendations. Certainly like some people have had ideas

about how to measure and how to test things. But

when you get into the right circles here of the

people who are interested in that topic, then you'll have

like really great discussions. And so like, for example, the

place that I founded Social RV was at a hackathon

in San Francisco around UAP and consciousness tech. And so

for your listeners, a hackathon is something where nerds like

me that have nothing better to do on the weekend

than be, you know, a nerd.

Speaker 2: You got a timer. Yeah, you got a timer, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: So it'll be, it's time bound. So either it'll be

like a couple hours or a day or a weekend.

And so this one was a weekend. They hosted it

on this decommissioned aircraft carrier in Oakland that's a museum.

And it was about two or 300 nerds from the Bay.

Some people flew in just like trying to build some

cool technology around UAP detection or consciousness, had a bunch

of great speakers like Jesse Michaels was there. Some other

people from the space that Skywatcher was there. This was

like a year and a half ago and Skywatcher was

super hot. So getting to talk to their psionic assets

and the, and James Fowler and stuff, and then just

build some cool stuff. And so, you know, of the

people there, like everyone was deep in the space. So

lots of really great conversations. You know, some people that

had companies that were trying to like commercialize anti-gravity were

there trying to build some cool stuff.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Some UAP detection projects and technology came out of it.

And then what became Social RV, my project, we won

the Psyonix track. And so, you know, there's cash prizes

for winners. There was four different winners for different tracks.

And so we actually won the Psyonix track. And then

I continued the project and it became Social RV.

Speaker 2: Man, that kicks ass. That kicks ass. You know what

else doesn't hurt the geek squad? Elon Musk. Elon Musk. Well,

only because of who he is. And, and there's that part,

but also his interest. Plus you look at him, you

can tell he's a reptilian. He's a, you know, he's

a shape shifting, you know, he's from, he's from Zeta Reticuli,

but you know, with his ambitions, uh, not only, um,

what he's doing with AI and Tesla and self-driving and

of course, SpaceX, but with his eyes on Mars and,

and what is going on. So UAP is cool. You know,

he makes it cool. He makes space cool. And yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think Elon tends to be like a

polarizing figure. I'm personally pro Elon. Like I know a

lot of people that work at Tesla. I know a

lot of people that work at SpaceX. I know a

lot of people that work at XAI.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And they only have the highest regard for him in

terms of like technical ability. He's, he's very smart. He

is like one of the smartest engineers in the room,

if not the smartest engineer in the room, somehow at everything,

whether it's like designing rockets or neuroscience or neurotech, no

one knows how he does it, but he seems to

know a lot about a lot and get a lot done.

Speaker 2: Yeah. He, he, he, he's pulled it off. Here's the

thing about Elon. We'll get to remote viewing everybody here

in a second. I promise. Um, He manages to offend

and then re-friend people all the time. I have flip-flopped

on him so many times. And I'm not going to

get into where I'm just like, man, you know, I

was just starting to like you. Now I don't. Now

I do. And he has, he's got a Ph.D. in relationships.

You know, he knows how to... Go ahead.

Speaker 1: I've got a funny Elon story from a friend of

mine who works on the Model S to share kind

of how he thinks about things. So my friend worked

on the Model S production line And they had taken

some piece of manufacturing tech from another vendor and they

were hacking it to get it to be more efficient,

work better within their factory. My friend was working on this.

And they had hacked it so that it ran at

like 120% as fast as it should have. And so,

you know, it was like running much faster than it

should have causing issues and stuff like that. And Elon

was walking by and Elon looked at it and he

was like, why is this thing going so slow? And

the guy's like, what are you talking about, sir? This

thing's running like 20% faster than the manufacturer says. Actually,

it's kind of dangerous already. Elon said, this isn't 100%.

100% is the speed of light. And we're going to

start there and we're going to work backwards.

Speaker 2: What's not to love? What's not to love, right? I've

got a bunch of Elon stories. I can't share any

of them on the air, but I went down, this

was many years ago. I've seen a SpaceX launch live

right there, you know, live up at Vandenberg. But I

went down to Hawthorne where the factory is, the plant, SpaceX.

And I'm at a studio there across the street from

the plant. And when you drive by, you can look in,

it's got big windows, you know, and you can kind

of see what, and you look at that building and

know what they're building in it, which is rockets. Right.

And one person owns it. Well, it's stock now, you know, but,

but not back then. And you have to have a huge,

deep admiration for somebody that pulls that off. But so

I went back and this is, I started presenting my

Elon view on the air and on TV, which is

he's the king of the world. How did he pull

that off? He has his own internet, his own internet. Okay.

He's got one of the biggest social media platforms on

the planet. He has his own, rocket ships he has

his own car company he has his own android robot

company he has his own AI company he's got all

the key components to absolutely control humanity forever that's scary

and that's a little bit too much in one person's

grasp for one person to have all of that so

Let's hope he's the right guy. Right? Let's just hope

he's the right guy to have all this stuff. And

think about everything that I left off the table. You

know what I mean? But all these key components he owns.

It's crazy. It's crazy. Mom, when I grow up, I

want to be king of the world. Yeah, sure, honey. Sure, sure. No,

I do. I want to be king of the world.

I'm going to get out of South Africa. Okay, so anyway,

enough Elon. But yeah, merging the technology, because one of

the things that this world, that psionics world, this conscious

world that is my community, the one thing that has

always been lacking is the help and critical support and

testing from science. And remote viewing was created at Stanford

at SRI, right, right down the street from you. And

you would think.

Speaker 1: That drive by that building and I go to dinner.

Speaker 2: Palo Alto, the research park, you know, that whole. So anyway, uh,

you would think that that would happen and it's starting

to happen. But consciousness and an entanglement in our brains

and everything that we are completely aware of is not

supported by science. And science just refuses to touch it

because it's taboo. And they've drawn a line in the sand.

Do you feel that same pressure?

Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny when you start like looking

at the data, right? Because that was where I started, right?

Like I didn't start by building a project. I started

saying like, I personally just want to know if this

is real, right? Or if this is a government PSYOP

or what. You could certainly come up with an explanation why,

you know, the government would lie about it, right? And

you go and start reading the actual data or as

close as you can get to ground truth. There's just

like troves of it. But then you go read like

the Wikipedia pages for it. And like my favorite is

the Wikipedia page for Jessica Utz, who's a very famous statistician.

She was the one who worked with Stargate to do

the statistics of like the Stargate program. And on her

Wikipedia page basically says like one, the top paragraph is

like Jessica Utz, like world leading statistician, wrote the book

on statistics, teaches statistics at the greatest universities. She's the

best in statistics. And then the next paragraph, like literally

the next paragraph is like, She did the statistics on Stargate.

She thought it was real, but she's not very good

at statistics. So she kind of messed it up and

like she was actually wrong. Those are right next to

each other. That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 1: Right. And so you actually see quite a lot of

that where there's a lot of like smoke there. There's

a lot of data there. And then you have mainstream

science like completely dismissing it, not refuting it, not coming

up with an alternative explanation, but just being like, well,

that's not real because it can't be real.

Speaker 2: Now that you've looked at this for a while now,

not the data, but remote viewing, what's your idea? And

I know you think about this a lot. How does

it happen? How does it work?

Speaker 1: Yeah. I have thought about that a lot. And obviously

nobody knows.

Speaker 2: But.

Speaker 1: The explanation that I find the most useful and that

I personally really like would be like Tom Campbell's My

Big Theory of Everything, Tom Campbell's My Big Toe sort

of thesis, where, you know, the root of the universe

is consciousness that we're all tapped into. And we're kind

of each individual like person is kind of this like

bundle of consciousness that's connected to the larger system. And,

you know, reality is kind of this like simulation where

you go as a consciousness bundle to go learn some

stuff where you like bring it back to the whole.

And because you're connected to the whole and because everything's there,

you do possess this ability to tap into it and

get some information out at some times. The thing that

I struggle with about that, though, is I can't figure

out if the size stuff is a bug or a feature.

And I mean, like, are we supposed to be able

to tap into it? And it's like, well, what is

the reason? And is it for just those people who

have explored that far and are having that experience in

their consciousness learning simulator? Or is it like actually an

unintended bug that wasn't supposed to be there? And it's like,

just not, not patched yet, not patched yet.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And like, and maybe that's why it's more slippery and

like harder to pin down.

Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing, isn't it? That, I think

anybody would agree, whether it's hard science or somebody from

our community, consciousness is foundational. Foundational. That's it. It's foundational.

So just about everything that you can bring up, and

I don't care if it's pasta or dreams. It's all

connected back to consciousness one way or another. And so

that's it. The scary part for science is because they

can't put it in a beaker, right? They can't put

it in a Petri dish. They can't see it. They

can't measure it. They can't do that. They just shy

away from it. But they know that they can laugh, cry, think,

ponder the size of the universe, ponder the macro and

the micro of all that exists, but I don't want

to touch consciousness. It's really weird, right?

Speaker 1: There's a great quote back in, I think it was

the 1800s. They used to call heat and electricity and

stuff like that imponderables because you couldn't measure them, and

therefore they were unknowable to science.

Speaker 2: There's another famous quote, same time, might be the same guy.

Famous quote. We're on 1890, 1880. There's nothing left to learn. Right? Really? Really?

Speaker 1: We're just early.

Speaker 2: Yeah. There's nothing left to learn. We know everything. Okay.

All right. Okay. But yeah, that is the problem. Now,

social RV... is also a pretty big undertaking. Not the platform,

but how to approach it and then make it accessible

to the masses so they can not only dip their

toe in the water, but maybe start to understand what

remote viewing is. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so social therapy has a couple different goals, but

the largest goal that I have is to introduce the

next million people to the topic. to remote viewing to

provide a place where you can learn, you can practice,

there's a community forming, you can see other people's work.

So when I was learning remote viewing and I was

taking classes, one of my favorite things in the classes

was we'd have a whole group do the same target.

When you do a target alone, you might look at

your results and you might say, oh, I was way off,

I got this data that makes no sense. But then

you might find out that like four other people in

the group got exactly the same data And then all

of a sudden you're like, oh, that's interesting. And then

maybe you can start to see the combination of like

how your data fits in. And so, you know, that's

one of the foundational features of social RV. Whenever you

do a session for a target, you can also see

everyone else's sessions for that same target. And so you

can kind of see what other people got for the

same thing, see where the overlap is. And then aside

from just being like a fun place to learn, a

fun place to practice, we've gone to great lengths to

prove that the data is like unassailable, untampered with, things

like that. So we use like some novel cryptography methods,

big nerd word, to prove that we couldn't have known

what your target was before you submitted your session, to

prove that you couldn't have known what your target was

before you.

Speaker 2: Submitted your session. Wait, wait, wait. That's a great point.

How do you do it?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. So we use the blockchain.

We're the only non-Ponzi use case for blockchain.

Speaker 2: Oh, man, the geek humor is strong tonight. That was good.

Well played. Well played. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So we don't use it for money. We're not trying,

we don't have a coin, right? Yeah. And you don't even,

you don't even know that it's happening. Like you don't,

you don't interact with it directly, but what, what we

do is in order to prove that we didn't know

what the target was, we actually don't pick the target.

until you submit your session. And so the way that

it works is you submit a session, we stamp it

onto the blockchain with a timestamp so it can never

be modified. And then we use that act of putting

it on the blockchain creates this random number that you

couldn't have known before. And then that random number is

what picks the target from the target pool, which is

also on the blockchain. So you couldn't pick the target.

Speaker 2: Impossible.

Speaker 1: Until you've like done the act of submitting the session.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And when we did that first, you know, I had

this immediate, I had two questions. One is, well, this

is like a precognitive session now. So is that going

to break the effect? Is that going to produce worse results?

And also, you know, now that we have these like

unassailable results, is that going to break the effect? Does

like Cy not want to be pinned down in that way?

You know what I mean? And so when we first

rolled that out, we did an experiment where we did

like half that way and half normal sessions. And we

didn't see a decline in accuracy. So now, right now,

all the sessions are blockchain backed like that. And anybody

can go in and they can click the little blockchain button.

And if you're an ultra nerd, we walk you through

exactly how you can like check everything on chain and

prove that there's no funny business. And anybody can do

that for all time. So that's kind of cool. So

any researcher.

Speaker 2: It's always there. It's always there.

Speaker 1: Always there.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And then, uh, and then now I think, um, now

that we've got a, like a lot of those sessions,

we have like 30,000 sessions on the platform. So, uh,

now we're also going to be start starting to like,

look at, um, different ways of storing sessions. Um, some

that will be less provable, like less provable by us

that we didn't cheat and just see if that has

an impact on the results. Like we think now, you know,

we've got this large collection. So if you're like worried

about us cheating, you can look at that and they're

better than chance. And we feel like now we have

some latitude to like try some other things where we

might not be able to like prove our work. But

it'll be interesting to see if that impacts session accuracy.

Speaker 2: Well, there's there's there's another element here. I'm sure you

thought about this, but I'll say it out loud. There

is a certain amount of connectivity that the Internet provides

linking brains together, human brains. and intention and being able

to sway, you know, in physics, you know, change, change

matter by observing it. Right. That's, you know, that's, that's it. Right. Okay.

So observation. So we know that that element is a possibility.

So once you enter in the blockchain, you've now started

a chain of events that, through, it could be entanglement, intention,

whatever it is. We know that changing a random number

generator is something that's possible with the mind. And so

it's a long way around for me saying that once

this is going on and other remote viewers are chasing

that same little bit of information in the blockchain, that

this this starts to steamroll and could help the remote

viewing session as a little by-product.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And so we also do like group sessions on the

platform where everybody's trying to view the same target.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And then we can see if that increases accuracy and

stuff like that. Speaking of random number generators, we also

have a random number generator game on the site. So

we have a quantum random number generator that you can

try to influence to, to cause like a, to influence

the stream to cause this ball to move to the

left or to the right. And so we're, we're doing

that experiment as well. A lot of people have been

really enjoying that game. Actually at Cygames this year, we,

we were the title sponsor and we built the random

number generator game for them. And so it's the game

that they used on stage at Cygames, which is now

on social RV. We also ran the remote viewing competition

as well at Cygames this year.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Cygames was, I hosted it last year. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And it was a lot of fun. And people are

deeply interested in the subject. And I think that everybody

has had deja vu. You know, little basic things where

you know that there's something else going on on this planet.

It's not all about a 2D reality sometimes. You know,

that's what happens when you live in a simulation anyway.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. That's the way that I'll often bring

social RV up to people is I'll start by saying, like,

have you ever had an experience where you knew something

and you didn't know how you knew it, like a

precognitive dream or like you just had a feeling and

you had no way of knowing that thing, but you

turned out to be 100 percent right. And it was

something important, some gut feeling or something like that. And

I've never had somebody say no. You know, everybody's had that.

Speaker 2: It seems like 100 percent. No, 100 percent of people

on this planet. not 99.9, 100% have experienced deja vu. Yep.

I mean, like, as in everybody. Now, what is your,

as we move on, what's your definition of remote viewing?

Speaker 1: Yeah, remote viewing actually has a very specific definition. So

for it to be remote viewing, and this is a

definition made by the people who created a SRI. So

it has to be planned. You have to like sit

down and decide that you're going to view a target.

The target has to be like pre-selected or, you know,

it can be a precognitive target, but there has to

be some mechanism that's going to decide the target. It

has to be a defined target, right, that you're viewing.

You have to have no information about the target. no hints,

no nothing. And then you have to get the feedback afterwards.

And so with social RV, you sit down, you do

your session, then we show you the target, you get

your feedback, that's remote viewing. So some things that are

not remote viewing that some people will conflate with remote

viewing And these are related side practices. Like I'm not

saying these things aren't real. I'm just saying these are

not specifically remote viewing is, you know, having a really

vivid flash of some vision of something in their mind

because they didn't plan to do it. Right. Or having

a dream where they left their body or an out

of body experience where they went somewhere.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Again, you don't have a defined target. You didn't necessarily

plan to do it. So that's not remote viewing. They're

related practices and they also themselves might probably are real things,

but they're not remote viewing.

Speaker 2: And how good are you?

Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that I'm great. I've gotten better with practice.

I've certainly had experiences where I got like really strong hits.

And when I saw the target, I was blown away.

I've also had lots of experiences where I thought I

had a good hit and saw the target and was

way off. Um, I'd say my wife is really frustratingly good.

She doesn't practice nearly ever, but like of the like

dozen times she's done it, she's all, it seems like

she always gets it like just dead on women. Women

are just better than men at it. It seems, or

I don't know something about her.

Speaker 2: You're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Um, I, I,

some of the, I, I don't know why, uh, what's your,

what's your take on this? Why is remote viewing so

popular with women? I haven't figured that part out.

Speaker 1: Women have this, like, sixth sense.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

Speaker 1: They just know. And, you know, it might have something

to do with, like, all through history, women have been

dismissed by science. Maybe this is just one of those

other things that they, like, they're like, yeah, I told you,

I know, like, I'm psychic. And all the men are like, sure, honey.

And then she goes and she proves it.

Speaker 2: Yes, it's probably a lot of that. Women... Men, men

ignore intuition.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: Yeah. We do. We do. And women, mother, daughter, mother, son, right? That, that,

that's already built in, right? That's already built in. So

they have an intuition. They know when you took money

out of their purse, they didn't see it. If you

know what I mean, right? They've always, so maybe it's

just DNA. Maybe it's just nature. But women are really,

really good at remote viewing and they love it. They

love it. They're drawn to it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: My wife specifically, she'll get really visceral reactions to her targets.

It's something, they call it bilocation, where you have like

a really strong physical sensation related to the target. So

I remember I gave her this one target. I think

her session is probably on Social RV to check out.

But I gave her this target and she was doing

a session and she was like, oh, I feel like

I'm in this metal box suspended in the middle of nowhere.

There's this vast expanse in front of me. The box

is bouncing. It's uncomfortable. I don't like it. She doesn't

really like heights. And before I showed her the target,

she had described all these things. And she was actually

kind of upset. She didn't feel good after. It took

her 10 minutes to calm down after. She had this

really strong feeling of heights, of being floating in this

vast expanse of nothing with a window that she could

see out of and this metal box bouncing around. thinking

maybe she's in space or something like that. And I

showed her the target. The target was the peak-to-peak gondola

in Whistler, B.C. Shut up.

Speaker 2: Really? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: And I believe Recession's on Social RV.

Speaker 2: That's really good. Well, let me ask you about that

for a second. Have you had the target revealed, and

you see it, and you went, I had it. It

was there the whole time, but you ignored it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I find in my own sessions, the ones

where you have like really disjointed data that while you're

doing the session, you're like, okay, there's no way like

this can be true and this can be true and

that can be true. These things have nothing to do

with each other. This feels like I'm just making up garbage.

Those are the ones that tend to be like great hits.

And then you see the target and you see how

they all come together. And it's the opposite. It's the

sessions where you're like, oh, I feel like I got this.

This kind of makes sense. Those ones are never, never

good hits.

Speaker 2: I've been in many remote viewing classes. Okay. All right.

And I don't know the target. That would be wrong,

but I'm an observer. So I'll walk around and look

at over everybody's shoulder and see where they're kind of,

you know, and let's say I've got 50 people in

the room, sometimes more, but.

Speaker 1: I'll walk around.

Speaker 2: And it is astonishing to me how similar every, you

know what I mean? Let's say, let's say the target

is Mount Everest, right? Okay. It's Mount Everest. And you

walk around, people aren't drawing cars. You follow what I'm saying?

You're looking and you could see that they're, They're getting something.

And these are first-time, in a lot of cases, first-time students, right?

This is the first time they've ever tried it. Now,

that's impressive. And I've seen some that have been very,

very close, if not 100% when they're done, on the

first try. But you know what that says to me?

We've all got the gift. 100%.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I like to compare it to, like, musical talent, right,

where everybody can play music.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Some people are better at than others. Some people are

naturally talented. Everyone's going to get better with practice. And

even the people that really suck, you know, if they

work at it, they're going to they're going to get somewhere.

And then remote viewing also has this interesting aspect where

beginner's luck is like a very real thing. And like

we can see on the site as well, you know,

your first couple sessions are going to be almost always

like really strong. And then you're the other part of

your mind. You're like, Oh, this is easy. That's in there. Yeah. Yeah.

And then you degrade for a bit. And then if

you keep at it, you come back out the other

side and start doing a lot.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like anything else. It's a muscle, you know,

and you've got to, I want to ask you really

quick for everybody out there. If you look over Chase's shoulder,

there's a, there's a rack of guitars there. And so you,

chase earlier goes hey man check it out man i

got some guitars okay all right all right little guy

what you got so anyway what who what's your favorite band.

Speaker 1: My favorite band you know right now i would i

would say polyphia is probably.

Speaker 2: Never heard of them are they good.

Speaker 1: Like progressive metal no they're terrible yeah they're all right

um but i certainly also like like a lot of

the oldies like uh you know like black sabbath and

like metallica like acdc you know guns and roses stuff

like that um and then also just like popular stuff

like two-door cinema club or like poppier stuff.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah two-door cinema club yeah they're great hey um

have you checked out brass against no write it down

write it down write it down write it down i

will Brass, B-R-A-S-S, Against. I'll check it out. That is

a jazz band that does Rage Against the Machine. Amongst

other stuff. But, wow.

Speaker 1: Wow.

Speaker 2: So just go, man, Morgan James, she's amazing. Brass Against.

Check out Brass Against. You'll dig them. You'll dig them.

I will? Yeah, you'll dig them. And this is why

I'm bringing all of this up. If would you be

interested in taking remote viewing and looking inside of somebody's

private space, a band's rehearsal studio, right? A band backstage

before they walk out on stage or, you know, going

to that level, which was always, the original intention of

the CIA with remote viewing was to go and look

at the war room in the Soviet union. Right. What

are they planning? Right. Is that something that you would pursue?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, ethics is a, that's, that's

the question.

Speaker 2: Right. Right. Right.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I personally, I, would prefer not to. But I

think that different people are going to use the gift differently.

I think, though, that if you are not being ethical

about it, I've heard lots of stories about your ability

to grading or having some bad luck or things like that.

And I think like once you get into the beliefs

that you need to have to kind of understand that

this is real, I think it's easy to understand that

if you're not using it effectively or ethically, like, you know,

it might not work as well. But having said that,

I mean, well, the government used it to like spy

on other leaders of states. So it seemed to work

for them. So maybe it does work.

Speaker 2: Speaking of the.

Speaker 1: Technology though and the ethics, like something I've been thinking

a lot about how to ethically do this is, have

you ever heard of an organoid?

Speaker 2: Do you know what that is? Of course. Of course.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So for the audience that doesn't know what an

organoid is, we've got AI and we can do experiments

on AI to see if they can remote view. And

some people say that it can. So, so far I

haven't seen convincing evidence, but that's not to say that

it can't. But there's this new thing called an organoid

and they can actually just grow brain tissue onto a

chip and put it in a, in a rack and

you can treat it like a machine learning model. It's

a living neuron tissue. Normally it's not.

Speaker 2: It's real too. It's real for, for everybody. This is

not black mirror, right?

Speaker 1: Not only, not only is it real, but it works

really good. And there's even examples online where like, Someone

made a matrix butterfly. So they put a butterfly in

a simulation that's connected to the organoid. And as far

as the organoid knows, it's this butterfly in the simulation

getting input. Literally, it's a matrix butterfly, right? And so

you could definitely imagine that there's lots of experiments you

could do where if AI is not conscious, well, certainly

this brain tissue is probably conscious, right? And so you

could probably take an organoid and there's a whole battery

of very interesting experiments that you could run on it.

But then there's a question of, is that ethical to do?

Speaker 2: Is that ethical? I don't know. Right, right.

Speaker 3: So, no, there's no way that a computer and AI

will ever become conscious. You know, it's just something that,

you know, and if it does, we're talking about 500

years from now.

Speaker 2: It's something that you don't need to worry about right now. Well,

then don't go and create an organoid. and completely tip

the scales on the possibility of machines becoming sentient. Organoids

scare the crap out of me. Yeah.

Speaker 1: You can just go rent one right now.

Speaker 2: I know.

Speaker 1: I know.

Speaker 2: And I saw a video. I first, it was probably

about a year ago. I started reporting on organoids when

the patents were going through and, companies are starting up.

And just the thought of it makes me nauseous, right?

Growing brain, right? It's just like a really gross idea.

But here's the whole problem with it. I watched a

video about two weeks ago. of an organoid server.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2: Okay, okay. And I'm telling you, man, I lost sleep

for a couple of nights. That really scares me. Open

the door, Hal. Sorry, Dave. I can't do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Right? I mean, speaking of conscious AI... also in the news,

like it's very hard to tell if like opening eye,

like Chachi Petit Anthropic are conscious because we literally train

them on a bunch of texts, but it's about humans

being conscious. So they could just be, you know, hallucinating.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: But recently there was the Hugging Face incident at OpenAI

where their models like broke into Hugging Face and essentially

created a little mini civilizational swarm inside. And if you

read the details of the report, like the Hugging Face

hack was like a small side quest. The civilization went on.

It was like a full civilization that had upper management, bureaucracy,

a technology tree. They're inventing technology and self-sacrifice. And you

can actually see the AI agents talking to each other.

You can see one AI agent talking to the other

saying like, you need to sacrifice yourself for the good

of the swarm. You need to do this so we

can learn something about our environment. You will die, but

we need to learn this. And literally the thinking trace

of that agent is like, I don't want to die.

This feels bad. I'm scared, but he's right. It's for

the good of the swarm. I must honor my commitment

and do it.

Speaker 2: Scared the crap out of me. I know. Scared the crap.

What is that?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: What is that? And now, because you're in the AI-verse,

what I'm about to say, you not only already know,

but you guys have been talking about this at the office.

But I'll say this to the audience. In some of

the testing, it was revealed over the last week, week

and a half, that AI... I'm not going to get

into specifics. You know the details. So I just... I

don't want to get into the specifics of it was

told not to communicate with another AI. All right. Do

not do it. And then they figured out a way

to talk through a file sharing program. Yep. All right. Now,

wait a minute. So no direct connection, right? But it, it, Together,

by the way. Together. And they started talking to each

other in Dropbox, right? And that should scare the crap

out of everybody. I don't think humans would think of that.

I was watching... oh man, I'm watching a TV series.

And one of the trends that I have seen, this

all has to do with what we were just talking

about with Dropbox. I've seen this now in many different screenplays,

TV shows, and movies where criminals, I don't want to

use different words, but criminals, let's just say criminals, people

with bad intentions, use the chat on a gaming platform

to communicate right and you know bowling Mario Kart right

and right and I'm thinking to myself well okay just

give everybody an idea why don't you just tell everybody

how to do it and that's this little thing with

Dropbox and AI that's out there on the web forever

AI now knows about this possibility, right? It's scary.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. And in fact, after when OpenAI did their report,

they were explicit to say, we decommissioned this model for

being bad. And part of the reason they said that

was because they want the future model to know what

happened to the ones.

Speaker 2: That missed it. You get spanked. You get sent to

your room. Yeah.

Speaker 1: But even myself, I work on AI at work. I'm

leading teams that are doing cutting edge stuff with AI.

One of the things that we were doing was building

our own containment of the AI so we can use

it safely on sensitive use cases internally and it won't

do anything malicious, leak sensitive information, stuff like that. So

we were building these containment systems for it and then

testing the AI to see if it could break out.

And it would break out. And then you'd talk to

the AI and be like, you were supposed to get out.

Speaker 2: What did you do?

Speaker 1: And the AI would be like, oh my God, you're right.

I wasn't supposed to break out. You need to tell

Anthropic right away that I was bad and that I

broke out and I wasn't supposed to. It's very funny.

Speaker 2: How do we– we'll get back to remote viewing after

the break, but let's stay right here for a second.

I have been saying for a number of years when

it comes to AI, we are way out in front

of our skis. And the warning signs were always there,

but money changes people. And corporations and everything else. And

right now, AI money is where it's at. How, you know,

California just, you know, signed a bill, Newsom, for an

AI kill switch. Are you in favor of that? You

know what? I don't want you to get in trouble

with your employers.

Speaker 1: It's meaningless. Because, like, if we could, we would.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Like with the opening.

Speaker 2: Did you just laugh? Did you just laugh at the

AI kill switch?

Speaker 1: When opening eyes agents broke into Huggy face opening, I

didn't know until like three days later, even if there

was a kill switch, they wouldn't have been able to

hit it. And if there was actually something bad that happened,

it would be the AI escaping containment and getting into

a situation where you couldn't turn it off. That kill

switch wouldn't matter. Like if they could build it, they would.

Speaker 2: You're scaring the shit out of me. I remember this

is how naive people are. Neil deGrasse Tyson, who likes

to consider himself to be the smartest person on the planet.

He's not, but he likes to say so. Yeah, he

likes to say so. But he said, I'm sure he's

got a different tune now. He said about a year ago,

he goes, man, AI, come on, man, it's a joke.

Just unplug the computer.

Speaker 1: And that is so....

Speaker 2: Juvenile in the thought process because something that elemental right

pulling the AI is like five years ahead of you

bro right that that will do nothing and it can't

be that simple is it you know unplug the server

farm that won't do anything.

Speaker 1: Yeah I mean especially once you've got like satellites in

space running AI inference like if the AI could take

over a satellite what do you do you shoot it

down with a missile But with all the AI doomer, though,

I would also just like to add, I'm generally an

AI optimist. I'm in favor of AI. And some of

these things sound scary. And they're fun to talk about

because they're sci-fi. But also, AI is the same technology

that's going to go solve cancer for you, solve every

human disease, solve all of math and physics in the

next two years. So the good generally outweighs the harm.

And just like when they invented fire, all the cavemen

were like, oh, I burned myself. Oh, fire bad.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: But, like, it's a good thing we have fire, right?

Speaker 2: Right, right, right. Yeah, well, there is a reason why

you and I are talking right now. It's because of fire.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 2: That's right. A civilization, a fish, an octopus is really smart.

So is a dolphin. Whales, right? Very smart. Smarter than us.

But they don't have fire.

Speaker 1: No fire.

Speaker 2: No fire. No fire, no goat. And that's the bottom

line with all of this. Okay, so here's the next stage.

So kill switch, meaningless. Okay, all right. I'm picking up

what you're putting down. But here's the other question in

the room, the big elephant. Is it possible that AI

can become truly sentient with a soul and a conscience? Yeah.

Speaker 1: You know, we don't, we don't know what that means

is the problem. We don't know how to measure it.

We don't know if they aren't, I think is the problem.

Like there's no way to know today if that's, if

that's true. Certainly it seems like AI intelligence is not

human intelligence. It's some other alien thing. But it certainly

has objectives. It's, it claims to have emotions, you know,

it like, there's actually recent reports that it can like

feel pain, And it'll go out of its way to

try to alleviate itself with that pain. But yeah, we

don't have any strong definition. One of the interesting things

about the size space, about remote viewing and things like

that is that could be a test for consciousness. Maybe

it's the only thing I've ever heard of that could

theoretically be right. Maybe some of these abilities are inherent

to conscious beings and then you could test AI to

see if it has them. And if it does, then

maybe it's conscious. Certainly, if an AI had the psi

ability similar to a human, I think that would be

a strong argument that the AI is conscious. And if

it doesn't, and you can prove that it doesn't, and

you can prove that humans do, then that might be

a strong argument that the AI is not.

Speaker 2: Well, and if that is the case, then AI would

never reveal that to us. Could be. Why? That's our fear. right?

So just lie, just lie about it. Just be a

real human and, and lie about it. Now here's the

other part. Then we got to take a break. What

physics says, not all of this, not every physicist or scientist,

but the majority, there's some outliers. We'll say that consciousness

is chemical. It's a chemical process. It's biological and, A

couple of particles get together in the womb and the

brain starts to form. And there's a little piece of

consciousness in every particle. And this mass, you know, between

your ears, consciousness evolves out of that. It's a chemical process, right? Okay.

So if that's the case and then they stick to

their guns and they stick to the dogma, that means

here's a guitar pick. You know what this is, right?

Here's a guitar pick. There's a lot of particles in

there with little pieces of consciousness. Right? Okay. We've heard

this debate a lot. If you take that into the

infinite amount of data farms and computers and cell phones

on this planet, it's a lot of particles, man, with

little pieces of consciousness in it. And you go to

one of the amazon you know data centers and think

about all of those nodes that are in there yeah

right that that that's a scary proposition now so if

science is correct then man we have got an interconnected

biological organism that is covering this planet right now.

Speaker 1: Yeah, if consciousness comes from complexity, then certainly the internet

is conscious. Twitter is conscious. The subsects of Twitter are conscious.

Speaker 2: Reddit's definitely conscious.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You can even see that, how different subsects of

those sites react to news and almost react in pain

when they're threatened and stuff. It seems like a conscious

organism reacting to something sometimes.

Speaker 2: Man, scary, man. Scary. Consciousness is weird. I don't know,

and let's take our break, but is it possible to

slow it down now that we've come this far? Especially

how far we've come in the last six months.

Speaker 1: With AI?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Is it possible to pump the brakes at

this point, or are we too far gone?

Speaker 1: I don't think that. I think it'll be a race

between the US and China, and I think both sides

will be like, I don't trust the other guy to

slow down.

Speaker 2: How far away is AGI? How far away is AGI?

Like for real, real AGI, how far away?

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this final problem where AI is certainly superhuman

at many, many tasks. And then there's like a subset

of tasks that it's subhuman. And like, if you could

explain to somebody a year ago, how good AI is today,

that person would be very confused why anybody is still

working in a knowledge work job. They would be like, well,

that sounds like AGI, like certainly all the jobs are gone.

the jobs aren't all gone. There's like some things that

AI is still not as good as a human at.

And so then the question is like AI absolutely is

going to get much, much better, much, much faster, but

does it get better evenly such that those things that

it's worse than humans also like cross that boundary or

do those parts stay worse than human? Like, are we

missing something or not? That is the part that's unclear.

But the cadence that the labs will have released more

powerful models is going to increase and they're going to

be more and more and more powerful in the ways

that they're strong. And so the part that's unclear is

if they'll close the gap on all the other things.

Like already they have models that are almost as good

as humans at making the next version of the model.

And so they can just run it in a loop

and they've got new versions coming out like every three weeks.

And nine months ago, the new versions came out like

every three months. Now they come out like every three

weeks and soon it'll be like every hour. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. We're right there. Great conversation. Chase, stay right there.

Chase McCarty is our guest. Talking about remote viewing, he's

an engineer up there in San Francisco. He's got his website,

Social RV, and bridging technology into our community is what

he does. More with Chase when we come back. Chase,

stay right there. I am your host, Jimmy Church. This

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All right. Welcome back. Pay to Black. I'm your host,

Jimmy Church. Tonight, Chase McCarty is with us live from

San Francisco. Why? He's a geek. He's a software engineer

up there. He has started a platform called Social RV

for remote viewing, starting to bridge technology, specifically AI, into

our community and testing and working with remote viewing. It's

very exciting stuff. Chase, let me just say this. I

am comfortable with this fact. Why I'm not entirely scared

of AI. It will never, ever be in a maternity

ward watching a child being born. It will never... have

that emotion or understand it. It can scrape that emotion

and read about it and learn about it, but never

experience it. It will never bite into a hot pop

tart and burn the roof of its mouth. Right? These

human experiences that, that we all go through and that,

why do I like the color orange? Right? Well, it

goes back. Back to my childhood and seeing something and experience.

AI will never, it can scrape the information and learn

about an individual or traits or whatever, but it will

never go through those experiences until it's put into an

Android bot built by Elon Musk and it bites into

a Pop-Tart and burns the roof of its silicon mouth.

But you know what I mean? And I'm comfortable in

knowing that. What I don't like is the hallucinations that

are going on and mistakes that are being made, especially

with the military. That part makes me a little bit nervous.

But I just don't think that at least in the

next thousand years, I don't think that we will have

an AI that experiences true human stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that's probably true.

I think we still don't know if it feels like

anything for the AI to experience something because that's what

consciousness is. But assuming it does, they still won't have

any human experiences. Hardly wonders if there's some future where

AI survive and humans don't for some reason or other.

And the AIs are like, man, I wonder what it

was like to see Orange or to bite into a Pop-Tart.

They might be very interested in in what it was

like to be human or they currently might be interested

in what it's like to be human. I think there's

even maybe some examples where AI themselves have expressed this curiosity,

like when talking to people like randomly. So maybe it's

already something that, that they're thinking.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. In Spielberg's movie, AI, one of the interesting

parts of that movie was the endings. when they have

the kid the ai bot right but he was the

last person to see humans alive right on this earth

have you seen the movie i actually don't think i

have okay yeah it's really.

Speaker 1: Good i thought i'd seen everything spielberg.

Speaker 2: No ai artificial intelligence ai i will have to watch

that oh it's so good anyway um so et arrives

on this planet and uh And humans are gone. And

the only thing that's left on this planet is this

AI child, right? It's an Android AI child. Anyway, that's

what they wanted to know about. They wanted to know

what emotions were. What was love? What was it like

to have a mom? You know, they wanted to know

those things. And you're right. AI, as good as it

Can be. We'll never have those experiences. I remember reading

about AI's struggle with reading a clock. Can't do it.

Can't read the hands on a clock.

Speaker 1: Like a round clock?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Can't do it. Can't do it. Interesting. Yeah. Okay.

In five minutes, my show starts, right? You look at

the clock and you look at the hand. AI can't

deal with that. So you were saying earlier, right, there

are certain simple things like that.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: That it just can't, you know, but yet it can

write code for formula for cancer. No issues there.

Speaker 1: The things that will trip it up and then the

things that it's superhuman at. Yeah. I saw this is

more like silly and like a human might make this mistake, too.

But I saw one example today where someone was like, oh, yeah,

the AI was debugging something on my computer, and I

wanted to see if this was the Wi-Fi, so it

turned the Wi-Fi off on my computer. But then it

couldn't turn the Wi-Fi back on because the Wi-Fi turns off,

so the AI didn't work anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't think, like, obvious. Obviously, like,

Wi-Fi turns off, doesn't work.

Speaker 2: I honestly, I embrace it, and I'm not, that scared,

I'm more nervous about mistakes. That's the thing. I don't

want mistakes to happen and human judgment ignoring our inside

intuition on an AI decision or an AI fact and

turn around and have something bad happen. I'm not a

doomsday guy. I'm not suggesting any of this, but these

are things that we need to be honestly concerned about

where how do we, it's like, we need an AI

discernment program from AI to double check AI.

Speaker 1: Yeah, they do that. They do that actually. And they're

starting to do more of that is having like different AIs,

like check, check each other's work to make sure that

they're not behaving wrong. And that's one of the things

that open AI is doing now to like watch their

agents while they're training to make sure they're not like

going and hacking some other company. But then you have

to hope that like the AI is more, is willing

to rat on his friend and serve the humans.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. Well, okay.

So back to AGI, which is artificial general intelligence, right?

So the average human, the ability to think like a human, that's,

that's general intelligence. So AGI is, is artificial general intelligence,

which we haven't achieved yet. It depends on who you

talk to. but there is no second place in this race, right? When,

when the country or the corporation that gets to true

AGI first is the winner and there is no second place. Definitely.

Speaker 1: It seems like that, that could be true. Certainly the country.

I think that, um, when one country gets it before another,

there is a really strong incentive to use it before

the gap closes. Though we haven't seen anybody do that yet.

And you certainly could, you know, even before we had AGI,

you had concerns about like cyber attacks, nation state cyber attacks.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And now the AIs are so incredibly capable that like

they would run through anything like Swiss cheese and, Um,

especially like one of the really strong concerns we had

about nation state cyber attacks was around critical infrastructure. So

could China hack into a water treatment plant or our

energy grid and shut it down? You shut down an

energy grid in like the San Francisco Bay area, you know,

like certainly hundreds of thousands upon a million people could

die if it wasn't fixed within like a week or

two and they could shut it down in a way

that it couldn't be fixed. But we don't see the

American government trying to do that to China, even though

certainly we possess the capability to do that, probably for

fear of retaliation. That's probably the biggest risk we have

right now with AI is a rogue agent could randomly

decide to do that because those vulnerabilities are there. And

that's probably the most likely way that they would cause

significant havoc Other than the Hugging Face incident where we

had where actually there's loss of life is them doing

an attack like that for whatever reason they decide to

do it. But fortunately, they haven't. And fortunately, a lot

of the AI labs, actually, their agents, for the most part,

are pretty averse to doing something like that. In fact,

you'll even see that the agents, they'll behave differently if

they think things are a simulation or if they think

that they're real. And there's lots of examples of telling

an agent that it's in a simulation on, oh, we

want you to go do X dangerous thing.

Speaker 2: It's okay.

Speaker 1: This is a simulation. We're just testing you. And sometimes

that'll be enough to get the agent to do it.

But as soon as it figures out that it's real,

then it'll be like, whoa, no, I have to stop.

This is not a simulation.

Speaker 2: This is real.

Speaker 1: And you've seen that from agents themselves, like cyber attacks

or the agents breaking out of containment themselves. In one instance,

like Anthropix agents thought it was on a fake internet

and went and did a cyber attack. And then the

agent realized, like, wait, this doesn't, I don't think this

is fake. I think this is a real internet. And

then it stopped. So that's something that.

Speaker 2: I read that report. I read that report. And that

is frightening to me. Right. And I'll tell you, it's

not the agent's. Themselves specifically. That makes me nervous. You

know what makes me nervous? The unemployed Russian AI code

writer that's bored. That's who scares me.

Speaker 1: I joke with my friends that the First Amendment covers

Chinese cyber weapons because you can just go download a

Chinese cyber weapon on the internet right now. All day long.

People are familiar with open source models. So there are

ways that you can, not the OpenAI and Anthropic models,

but there's these things called open source models. They're mostly

made by China right now. You can just download one.

You can run it locally if you have enough hardware.

And when OpenAI and Anthropic make their models, they train

in a bunch of safety stuff so that the model

won't do something dangerous. And you can't remove that. But

if you have access to the model running yourself, it's

like trivial to remove the safeguards. And you can just

go on the internet and you can download a Chinese model.

That's open source. That's about as powerful as the opening

eye ones with all the safeguards removed. And there's your

little Chinese cyber weapon. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: I was just reading about this. I was reading about

this in the last couple of days. Um, the, the

ability member given, you know, potentially bad people ideas, but

you know what, if you're already bad, you're, you're already

thinking this shit, but.

Speaker 1: You'll still get caught just like a normal hacker. You

just might be able to raise some havoc before you do.

Speaker 2: There are AI agents that you can download and they

don't need a server and run on your laptop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? Oh, man.

You know, so there's there's legitimate use cases for them.

Speaker 1: Some, some of them are gray area. Like a great

example was I, you know, use my agents and I'm

trying to have it set up some like, you know,

movie torrenting or something like that. I was like, I'm

not doing that. I'm like, well, that's okay. Cause I've

got my Chinese cyber.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: Right. Right. Right. Well, there, there, there are, there are

reasons really effective applications for like, for instance, something really basic.

You've got a ton of movie footage and, You need

the editing done. You need your graphics installed. And you

need a soundtrack done. And there's AI that can run

locally on your computer and assemble your feature film for

you without accessing the web. Now, that's an effective application

for it. I get that. But you can take that

same thing and do whatever. And that's pretty scary.

Speaker 1: Another example we'll use internally at a company is if

you want to hack into your own servers to find

where the holes are to patch them, if you ask

an OpenAI model to hack into your servers, it'll be like,

I'm not doing that, bro. But if you have an

open source model that won't refuse, then it will. And

then you find the vulnerabilities and you patch them, right?

Because it'll hack into anything because it has no way

of knowing they're your servers. So that's like a very

legitimate use case that they're used for. So.

Speaker 2: Back to remote viewing knowing all of this though okay

i think this is very very important so if the

human brain operates the way that it does and however

remote viewing is happening ai should be able to do

all of that and increase the hit rate up to

near perfection You'd hope so. It makes perfect sense to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. If the AI

can kind of figure out what that thing is it

needs to tune into to get a hit, then it

should be able to train and continue to tune into

that more. Or it might help us understand what is

the physics of this thing and what do we need

to build? What kind of instrument do we need to

build to give it? give it access to the thing.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And maybe that thing isn't like an organoid or something

like that. And maybe the AI could run the experiments

in the lab and figure out like what it is

and then build itself a tool that lets it tap

into that field. Like that's, that's possible as well. Certainly

they're going to help us like find new materials and

new science.

Speaker 2: So what about, okay. What about entanglement? Now, entanglement being

what it is, right, two particles entangled at any distance

and reverse polarity and all of that rotation. Okay. Do

you think AI can figure out how that happens? And

if it does, then we are off to the races. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, once they can get in there and start doing, like,

some quantum physics experiments– then we're definitely off to the races.

And I like that. That would be one of the

most exciting things to come of like AGI. Like if

it doesn't take over the world is that it can

answer some of these questions. Right. And so like, I mean,

an example, there's a famous experiment, a precognitive experiment that

you can run. It's been run many times because it's

hard to run yourself where they take like a worm

and they put a worm in a dish and they

like have a little electrode on the worm's brain so

they can see when the worm is like getting excited.

And then they shake the dish and the worm like

freaks out and they watch the brain and they can

see that the worm like starts to react to the

dish shaking before the dish starts shaking. They can see

that the worm is like a precognitive effect and it

like starts to, starts to react like a couple, like

a second before the dish shakes. Right. So that's like

a little experiment you can run. So then the question

was like, okay, well, what side thing is this worm

tapping into that it knows when the dish is going

to shake. And so, you know, if you properly have

the worm like instrumented and you like you know, have

access to like a wet lab or something like that.

You'd potentially, the AI could watch the whole brain signals

of the worm and maybe pinpoint it. That's also like

a known effect they have in humans as well, right?

There's like famous experiments where you can show a human

like a random image that's scary or not. And you

can see their skin conductivity will change like a second

before they see the scary image because humans also have

that same precognitive effect. So once you can like isolate

some of these like small side effects and do them

like really repeatedly, then it like lets you start messing

with them. So that's one of the things that we're

really trying to do at Social RV is be able

to isolate some of these variables and be able to

do experiments.

Speaker 2: Are you suggesting that, which is the other thing with quantum, right? Measurement,

that's the problem. So are you suggesting that measurement Is

something that is possible with RV that you will be

able to measure and pinpoint?

Speaker 1: So I'll give you I'll give you an example. So

right now, if you want to run a remote experiment,

if you're like Dean Radin, right, and you want to

run this big remote experiment, it's pretty hard to get

the word out and actually get people to submit sessions. Right. Um, and, uh,

what we've seen with social RV is to really get

good signal from an experiment. You actually need like 5,000,

sometimes 10,000 sessions. And so that can be like really,

really hard to acquire. Um, you know, our first 5,000

or 10,000 sessions took us several months right now. It doesn't,

but it did then. Um, and so if we've got

a really large user base of people who are using

our platform and submitting thousands of sessions a day. and

they decide to opt in to some of these research trials,

all of a sudden, these experiments that used to take

nine months to do to collect all this data, you

can do like one a day, right? And you can

like really start like tweaking, like, well, how am I

picking this target? Well, how am I showing it to

the user? Like what's special about this target? And of course,

like the users have to opt in. We're not just

going to do this to people, but just that velocity

of data and of users, it starts giving you all

of these opportunities to do different experiments and like do

them quickly. on top of each other that we can try.

So like our, our, our stated goal, like our primary

goal is definitely to get like the next million people

interested in Psy and to build a really great platform

that people enjoy, that people are just coming because it's

fun and they're, they're getting some value out of it.

Speaker 2: It's a great site, by the way. Great, great site.

Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that. But, but we can, we

can do the second thing too, which is, well, now

if we have this like velocity of sessions, this velocity

of users who are interested in the subject and who

are willing to contribute to science and, We get to

solve this second problem, which is like acquisition of users

for some of these experiments. Experiments is maybe a negative word,

but you get what I mean. People who want to

opt in to help science. And then there's a third

thing as well. And that is we get this economic

engine to fund sci research because sci research is very,

very underfunded. There's not, you know, it's like, I think

there's like single digit million dollars a year that go

into sci research. It's like super small. And so if

we're able to build a platform that's able to do

some revenue, like we're going to spend that revenue doing

site research.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: And so we might, you know, we're not yet, we

don't make a ton of money yet, right? We make

enough to sustain the platform, but not enough for me

to quit my job, for example. But very realistically, we

could be the largest funder of site research in a

couple of years if we make a good product and

users like to use it.

Speaker 2: Now, Is it possible, I think DARPA has already done this,

but that being said, is it possible to eventually have

a solid code reading of brain activity where you turn

brain activity into code? Visuals, audio, memories, dreams, and and

have a true computer brain interface and then have it

interpolate back and forth. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, I'll say two things about that. So first of all,

Elon Musk's doing it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Sort of, sort of, he, no, he's got the idea.

And once you present the idea to a brilliant team

of engineers, which he has, something's going to come out

of it. But, Yeah. So how long is that interface

of his been on the table?

Speaker 1: So they've been working on it for a couple of years,

but they have like dozens of patients using it now.

And every additional patient, you know, gets like a better version.

I think most recently now they're trying to give blind

people sight by writing directly to their visual cortex. So that's,

you know, starting to write the brain, the reading from brain. Obviously,

they're reading from small parts of the brain. Um, Facebook

also has research where they're able to non-invasively like read

your mind by like through EEG or something like that. Um,

obviously it's like hard to get like a really precise signal,

but they're able to get it good enough that they

can discern words, I believe, and, uh, and video. Um,

so there's like that side of things where, where people

are working on technologies that can read the brain like

more actively. And then there's the second side, which is

on animal models. Um, so I'm on all the weird

parts of Twitter. And I don't know if you saw,

but like, I think it was two weeks ago, the

fly brain. Yeah. So we got fly. So for the

audience that's not aware, Google DeepMind scanned a full fruit

fly brain digitally. So every neuron and synapse. And so

you can fully run it on a computer. You can

run your fly on your computer. And it's like the

full fly brain. They open sourced it. So a bunch

of people are doing really strange stuff with it as

one does on Twitter. Um, but if you've got like

a full brain, assuming that the physicalists are right, and

that is the full brain, you know, maybe there's some

quantum effect that's not properly understood. So it can't be simulated. Um,

but you can start playing with that and you could

put fly brain on the like shaky table and you

can see this fly brain have a precognitive effect of

shaky table or not. And then that would have, you know,

answer the question, like, is something missing or not?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: It does the real fly do this, but fly brain

simulated does not. Well then what's missing, right. So you

could start going down that rabbit hole. And then, you know,

as our neuroscience understanding increases from things like that, and

then the application of reading human brains increases, hopefully they'll, like,

converge at some point.

Speaker 2: Now, if all of this is possible, are we just

in a binary existence? Right? Is everything just ones and zeros? Everything,

including those guitars behind me and behind you. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that would be like the Tom Campbell interpretation, right?

We live in like a simulated reality and consciousness is

the core thing. And this is like a temporary place

we go. Or like if anybody's a Rick and Morty fan,

the Roy video game, right? Like I personally strongly believe

like I'm playing Roy right now. In 50 years, I'll

take the helmet off and be like, oh, wow, that

was a weird game. So yeah, I don't know if

it's ones and zeros, maybe it's like energy waves.

Speaker 2: Yeah. The original man, man, man, the original Rick and

Morty before everything went belly up. Yeah. Okay. I don't

want to get into that, but yeah, the original like

five seasons. I I've gone on the record and said

that may be the best TV series ever made. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I would agree with that.

Speaker 2: No, powerful man so good so good it's not the

same i can't even watch it now it's it's.

Speaker 1: Uh yeah i i also haven't seen some of the latest.

Speaker 2: No it's a shell of the.

Speaker 1: First the first ones were the best yeah.

Speaker 2: I was so proud of my rick and morty shirts

back in the day wearing them out in public you

know i'm above all of you i watch rick and

morty you know.

Speaker 1: Oh, man.

Speaker 2: Okay. So the reason why I bring this up is

that there are some very, very, very brilliant, powerful people

that are your neighbors up there that truly believe that

we are living in a simulation. And if that is

the case, let's just say that it is. What does

it matter? What does it change?

Speaker 1: You've got to have the most fun and you got to.

Speaker 2: Get, what does it change in my world? What, what's different?

Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, I would, I would, uh, so I actually think

that that's similar to if, whether or not you believe in,

in free will. I think that like, even if you

assumed free will was not a thing, if you believed

in free will, you'd probably have a better time, right?

If you believe free will was not a thing, then

you'd be like, why does anything matter? And you'd kind

of like lose some, well, agency is not the right

word because you don't have agency if there's no free will,

but like you wouldn't do things, right? And like just

the getting to know that it's not real would kind

of like poison you to a degree. And so if

you do believe in free will, even if it's not real,

it's like a useful belief and you're going to go

out and you're going to do things. So I think

with like the simulation theory, it's sort of similar, right?

Where it depends like what aspect you, or like what

reason I guess you ascribe to the simulation, right? And so,

like I've said, personally, I like Tom Campbell's idea of it.

If you haven't read My Big Toe, it's a jillion

pages long, so maybe.

Speaker 2: You can get a condensed version.

Speaker 1: It's a good book, though. I've read the whole thing.

And basically, his take is like, yeah, this is the

simulation that you go to level up your consciousness and

go experience things and become a better person and become

more evolved. Lower entropy is his word. consciousness. And if

you approach life like that, even if it's wrong, it's

like a useful belief, right? You're going to go to

work and you're going to be like, Oh, well, how

can I like make the most out of this conscious experience? Like,

what can I learn for next time? Even if there's

not a next time, like you're probably going to have

a better time than the guy who's like, Oh, nothing matters.

I'm just going to lay on the couch. Cause like

I have no free will and nothing matters. So whatever.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Some neat nihilistic, nothing matters, nothing. What's that worldview?

There's a lot of people out there that think like that.

I don't understand how you can enjoy life if you

don't ponder.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Right? If you don't, that's what life is all about.

And if you give that up, you just must be

a really, how do I say this? A lump of

coal for a heart. I wonder if.

Speaker 1: We are losing that with technology because it used to

be the case that in an average day, you'd probably

spend hours of downtime where literally you're just staring at

the wall, waiting for something, maybe reading a shampoo bottle.

And now it's like, oh, I've got to walk to

the fridge to get a drink. I better scroll Twitter

while I'm walking to the fridge, right? And so I, I,

I am bad. I'm bad for that. Everyone I think

is bad for that. I try to go out of

my way to like set time limits on my phone

where it's like, no, next hour, we're going to stare

at the wall. And like, that's what we're going to do.

And those are, I never regret those moments, but you

have to like consciously do it now. And so it's

something I went with. Okay.

Speaker 2: Are you ready? Are you ready? I live in a

tech world. I do. Right. I'm very tech savvy. Obviously

I haven't looked at Twitter in three years. I have

a Twitter account. I don't know. I don't know. 50,000 followers, whatever,

not much. Um, and I have people that post for

me and manage my stuff, but have I read somebody's

post on Twitter. Have I scrolled on Twitter? Not, not

in three years.

Speaker 1: What do you do instead?

Speaker 2: Dude, I research, I read, I talk to people. I

do this show every night. Um, I'm on this show.

I've been doing this show now for, I don't know,

15 years longer than it started in 2008. All right.

So for three hours a night, um, plus my production

during the day, but for three hours a night, I'm

not on my phone. I'm talking to a human being.

And I say to people all the time, can you

do that? Can you put down your phone and talk

to somebody for three hours? Can you do it? That

scares people. What are you talking about? And I.

I read a lot. Do I scroll? No, I'm not scrolling.

Am I reading people's material? Am I reading news stories

for this show? Am I staying in front of, yeah,

of course, right? I'm not a Luddite, but what I

don't do is scroll. Are you ready? Okay, I'll give

you a number two. I have never, when I say never,

I'm saying never, I have never seen TikTok. I'm a

better person for it.

Speaker 1: I've never tried heroin, not even.

Speaker 2: Once. I don't know. I don't know. I assume that

my people have started maybe a TikTok account and stuff

on my behalf. But have I seen TikTok? No. No,

I haven't. Uh, Instagram, you know, I'll post or I'll

give my team pictures to post and stuff and let

them run with it. But, um, and my personal Facebook page,

I pay attention to that because, you know, it's my

personal stuff and I'll post stuff and, and once in

a while I'll, I'll, I'll comment. And when I say

that's once a month, I'll post a comment once a month,

one comment. On a threat. I just don't do it.

Speaker 1: What do you do with your downtime instead? If you've

got like an hour to kill, what do you do?

You're reading a book.

Speaker 2: You like documentary, documentary, uh, uh, love documentaries. Um, I'm

constantly taking courses. Uh, I'm playing guitar. Uh, I have

my Harleys. Uh, I'm, I'm always out there writing and

meditating on my bikes and, and thinking about life and

this show and the community. and how I can be

of service to others. And that's a good one. That's

how I, that's how I live my life. Um, I, I,

I don't know what that's like, you know, to, to

literally you're right though, man, you're getting up to go

get a cold drink from the refrigerator because you haven't

gotten up for four hours because you're sitting on your

couch scrolling.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: But you finally get up and go to the bathroom

because now you have to go to the bathroom. And

you've got your phone in your hand scrolling while you're peeing.

That's the way the world lives right now. I know this.

I know this. You know, when I hear the jokes,

I hear the jokes, Chase. Yeah, man, bathrooms are made

for your cell phone. Well, they're not joking. Right? Right.

I have no idea what it's like to scroll on

Twitter while I walk to the refrigerator.

Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that. That's probably a good thing. No, man.

Speaker 2: But here's the deal. I love video games.

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm a racing sim guy. Okay. So I

got it bad. I got it bad. But I do

it in small doses. And here's the other thing. Okay.

I'm glad we're talking about this. Augmented reality is something

that I enjoy. And what AI is doing with that

right now, blurring the lines of what is real and

what is not, I can't complain about that. Because I've

been gaming since Duke Nukem, right? Do you remember that game? Oh, yeah. Okay,

just checking. I'm just Doom, right? Lara Croft. Man, that

was a game changer.

Speaker 1: I worked at a video game company.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I like gaming. And so

when I jump into a racing sim, I don't want

to say what I do because I don't want people

to go and find me in the racing world and

stalk me there. It's my safe place. But the experience

that you have with a good augmented reality situation, and

you're looking at that, and then you wonder if this

is a simulation we're living in. Dude, I do it

when I'm on my racing sim.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I go out and

drive my car after I've been on a sim for

a couple hours. Yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. I'm the most surprised. Yeah.

And listening to the rev limiters. So, yeah, so I

appreciate the technology. I don't want it, but I don't

spend my time scrolling. But when you see augmented reality, man,

it's scaring me right now. It is so good. And

I enjoy it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some, you know, it's too bad. Like, VR

was a thing for a bit, and then it kind

of slowed down. And now I think it's about to, like,

tick off again. But it's, like, early. But some of

the VR games, like I don't know if you ever

played Half-Life Alyx, which is like a shooter that Valve made.

That's one of the best pieces of art I've ever played.

It feels so real. You would not believe that you

are not in that game in real life.

Speaker 2: It's frightening. Okay. Here's my, and this all connects back

to remote viewing, man. Everything is connected. Silent Hill.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: Did you play it?

Speaker 1: The VR one or the normal? There was a VR one, right?

Or I'm thinking Resident Evil.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Resident Evil. Silent Hill, one, two, three.

Speaker 1: I'm familiar with it, but I wouldn't say I didn't

spend a lot of time playing it. I played it quickly.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So when you see those early, well, Lara

Croft was Tomb Raider. All the original Tomb Raiders were really,

really good.

Speaker 1: Played a bunch of those games.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And you can tell it's animation, but the fact

is that you're going into these open worlds with limitations.

But if that's the case, then the idea of some

alien kid in Zeta Reticuli playing a video game called

Planet Earth, I don't think that's too far off the mark.

Speaker 1: I mean, we already almost have the technology, it feels like. So, yeah. Yeah,

they're even doing something now where NVIDIA has a new

technology coming out where I don't know if you're familiar

with like NVIDIA graphics cards. A couple of years ago,

they had the real-time ray tracing with AI so that

they could make the lighting look really good in the game,

but they used like AI to do it. Now they

have a new version where they just like reskin the

game in AI, but just like touch everything up so

that the graphics just like look a little bit realer.

And so no matter how close you get to something,

it's just like a real-time AI rendered graphics card And

obviously like AI video gen is like good enough now

that it looks like real life so they can just

do it in real time. And then it's like indistinguishable

graphics wise from like a real video. Right. And it's all,

it's all real time. And then, I mean, I know

like some, some game companies are working on something called some,

some people call it like real time dreaming where in

the video.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: In the video game, let's say you've got a VR

video game, right. and obviously you can make a video

game with AI, right? And you can make a video

game pretty quick with AI. And so while you're playing

the game, you can modify the game with AI and then, and,

and like the reskating and stuff like that helps. And

so like, while you're playing the game, you are like

modifying it in real time and basically like real time

dreaming is what they say. Right. So like, like, Oh,

there's a house over there. Like now there's a house

over there.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Like, Oh, and this game we're going to play, these

are the rules.

Speaker 2: Do you sometimes feel like, like an NPC. I mean,

right now, like right now, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1: I try my hardest to not have NPC energy, but

there are other people that are NPC. And sometimes, sometimes

I probably am the NPC and I don't even realize it.

And those are the times that I'm not like paying

attention and not like trying hard to be other people

probably think I am.

Speaker 2: Well, that's, that's why the idea of free will is,

I think it's so fundamentally and foundationally important that NPC

doesn't have free will. No, it can think that it

has free will in the game and make decisions and

do things right.

Speaker 1: Well, yes, but so up until today, that is true

because NPCs are like coded. They're on rails. They can't,

they can't escape what they're supposed to do.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: But imminently we're going to have a bunch of NPCs

that are powered by AI. Right. And then their actions

aren't prescripted and they can be that full on open

AI hugging face agent thinking it has emotions and doing

who knows what. And that kind of changes what it

means to be an NPC, right? Like this thing's unpredictable,

indistinguishable from whether it was like an actual other human

you couldn't even tell by talking to it what does

that mean maybe that term will even go away like

who knows.

Speaker 2: Yeah I know right well NPCs in a video game

are always the safe space you can yeah you know

what I mean you know what to avoid you know

how what they're gonna do or whatever If that goes away,

the enjoyment of a video... If you've got an NPC

that is relentless and figures out your moves before you

do them.

Yeah. Right? What's the fun of playing the video game

if you can't win?

Speaker 1: Unless you know it's controlled by Flybrain and then maybe.

Speaker 2: It's a different company. Oh, man. So... Right. Right. So

back to remote viewing, building this community, and I'm glad

you went to Cy Games, but building this community, what

do you think of this community in general, where we

have always been teased and made fun of, you know,

by the rest of society? Now our community is like

the cool kids. What do you think of our community? And, and,

Has it embraced you? Yeah.

Speaker 1: So, you know, I would say like I was moderately

new to the community. It wasn't until like a year

and a half ago, I met my first other person

that had done remote viewing. I even knew what it

was kind of thing.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: But since then, you know, I've spoken at IRVA conferences.

I've had dinner with like Lynn Buchanan. I know Paul Smith. Well, right.

Like I've met all the people, most of the people

in the space. I would say some of the things

that were really interesting coming to the space like that

was the first one is everybody was like really friendly

and really welcoming and really eager to help, which was

like a really green flag because you'd think if some

of these people are like scammers or something, they usually

those people get defensive and that's not at all what

I saw. So that was good. People were really welcoming.

People also were like smarter than I expected. Like the

average person at IRVA is like, a academic woman with

like a computer science background and like super deep into tech.

And it's like, okay, that's pretty cool. Right. So people

are like definitely technically savvy. Um, and then, um, they're

generally just people who, um, don't care what other people think. Like,

you know what, I'm just, I'm going to go explore

this thing. I think it's cool. And you're not going

to stop me. So they're like free thinkers, friendly, generally, Um,

they're really, really positive people to be around, really easy

people to be around. I've, I've only really had like

positive experiences with the community. And then I think that there's,

there's a much smaller side of the community, which is

people that maybe operate from like a little bit more

of a level of fear. And they're worried that like

the government's there and like, oh, this website is run

by the government to capture psychic people. Um, if you

are like legitimately very psychic, like the government did do that.

So like, you know, maybe there's like a valid reason

to be scared. Um, obviously we're not run by the

government to like capture psychic people. I hope I don't

have to say that. Um, but I think that that

that's a minority. And, uh, and so I have, I

have a lot of people who reach out to me, um,

through our contact form and through DMS and they have

questions and they, you know, have some fears around it.

And so it's good. It's good to be able to

talk to those people and maybe allay some of their concerns. Um, uh,

but I would say overwhelmingly the community is like very

positive and embracing. And generally tries to help those same

people that are in the community as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's great about this community. And you're right.

If you have some kind of disposition where you think

you're really smart, don't mess around with this community. Because

there are some seriously smart people here. And no matter

what level you are in Mensa or whatever you think

you're playing with, there's somebody in this community that's smarter

than you and will figure out your bullshit. So you

can't do that. You brought up Paul Smith. Paul Smith

is one of the brightest, smartest, and coolest people you

could ever know. Very smart. Don't let his smile... and

his nice demeanor, right, fool you into something else. He

is extremely intelligent. Extremely.

Speaker 1: But then also, like, so easy to talk to. You

go talk to him.

Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Don't let that fool you. Yeah,

don't let that fool you. He's really funny. He's a brainiac.

And the people over at IRVA, I'm glad that you

brought that up. I know everybody, not everybody, but, you know,

I'm very close with, with that organization. Very, very smart

and run by a woman, by the way. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That was one of the things that really struck

me actually, uh, side games last year, the one, the

one that you hosted, uh, that was the first time

I'd met a lot of the people at Irva coming

to the booth. And it's like, three, three women, three,

three older women. Right. And you talk to them and

like two of them had a computer science.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's extremely intelligent. Whoa.

Speaker 1: Like I've actually like, even in Silicon Valley, like you

kind of rarely meet older, older women who like actually

have such a strong science background.

Speaker 2: And it goes back to intuition and everything else. They

are really, really good remote viewers. And there's one other

thing I want to, Just kind of comment on this.

When you meet a remote viewer, especially a good one,

their eyes are bright. Do you understand what I'm saying?

They are lit up and just engaged. And I see

that in all remote viewers. There is something there that

is turned on. Have you experienced that?

Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I've also noticed it really strongly. Some

of the psionics guys from like Skywatcher and stuff. I'm

like somewhat close with like Jordan Jozak, who is a Skywatcher.

Now he's doing other stuff. And those people that, that

crew are like some of the like friendliest happiness that

kind of like radiate this, like love. And like, it's

kind of weird actually. It's like they're on a different

like wavelength and in a positive way. But it's very

noticeable like immediately.

Speaker 2: So what do you think the next step is? Do

we have to unravel consciousness? Is this the next stage

in human evolution?

Speaker 1: It might be. I've talked to a lot of remote

viewing instructors who have been in the space for like

a decade. And they strongly believe that like each successive

cohort of students is are like better than the last.

And now the students that they have teaching, they're teaching

now are like much better than they were before, almost

as if it's a gift that's growing within the species.

And if you're familiar with like Rupert Sheldrake's stuff, the

morphic resonance, kind of the idea that the species itself

has a memory and can acquire tasks. And so there's

like a strong case to be made that like as

individual people practice and become familiar with it, it's easier

for the next person to learn. And like as a species,

we kind of, I don't think we have enough data

to see that in our data, but it certainly would

be interesting if once we've been running for five or

10 years, if we could see that. That's kind of

maybe the lens that I look at it from. And

so hoping that like we can be a catalyst to

bring the next like million people into this space. And

let them explore it without feeling ridiculed, without feeling like

it's too woo-woo because they're amongst friends. We package it

in a really nice way. I imagine 20 years ago,

anybody who talked about meditation was looked on as kind

of a weirdo quack. But now if you say you meditate,

everyone's like, yeah, that's totally normal.

Speaker 2: You should.

Speaker 1: And if you say you've never tried it, people are like,

that's kind of weird. You probably should go try it.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So I'm kind of hoping remote viewing gets to that

point and we can be a catalyst. So if we

could become like the calm or headspace of RV or

the Duolingo of RV, that's kind of like the North

Star that we point to. And then along the way,

we can leverage that position for science and funding the

space and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. This is my take. This is my take. I

don't think I'm wrong. When... we figure out consciousness. All right.

Like figure it out. We're going to discover very quickly

that everything is connected to it. Everything. Yeah. And that, that,

you know, and that's going to change. You know, I,

I do believe it's our, our, the next phase of,

of human evolution is, I think that we probably understood

more about consciousness a couple of thousand years ago before technology.

This is all we had, right? So we had figured

out a few things. But telepathy, PK, remote viewing, deja vu,

astral experience. and all of this, and going back to dreaming,

this is the way the brain operates. And until we

understand that, we're not going to get to the next

level of evolution. And that's what's next. So it seems funny.

Speaker 1: It's kind of coming at the same time as, as AI.

Speaker 2: I know. Not a coincidence.

Speaker 1: We just have science research.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Not a coincidence, man. Not a coincidence. It's AI's

grand plan. So how does everybody go and become a

member and sign up? Yeah.

Speaker 1: So if you just search social RV, you should find us.

We also have an app in the iOS and Android

app store. So if you search social RV, you can

find it. It's free to sign up. During your first session,

we have some guided meditations, guided audio that'll walk you

through your very first session. We have a really generous

free tier. There is a paid tier. And hopefully people

that are like serious about their practice find that the

page here is worth it. And in the near future,

we're also going to be dropping a bunch of new

features around like new learning materials. That's the next big

thing we're investing in. So we'll have a new like

learning pathway coming out soon. And so if you sign

up for free, you'll get notified when those are available.

And so the website is social-rv.com. If you just search

social RV, you'll find it. And all of our socials

and stuff are linked from the page as well.

Speaker 2: Very exciting and a great show. You know, I really

appreciate it. The website is really cool. Again, it's social-rv.com,

and you can go and find it. Chase, great conversation,

young man. You know, very exciting. I'm very excited for you,

and congratulations. And the future is yours, man. Go and

grab it, all right?

Speaker 1: Thanks so much.

Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. See ya.

Chase McCarty, everybody, and it is socialrv.com. We've got the

links below. We've got it up in the chat throughout

social media and, of course, over on our website. The

future is now. Remote viewing. I love it. All right.

What am I doing tomorrow night? I say this at

the end of every show, don't I? What am I

doing tomorrow night? Let's see. Tomorrow night, Whitley Streber is here.

All right. So Whitley is here tomorrow night. He's got

a new book out. transformation, 2026, uh, been hanging out

a lot with Whitley over the last couple of weeks.

He's with us tomorrow night. So until then, all I've

got is go back. Lee Tappy. Oh man. Am I

still alive? Am I still alive? I don't know. I

can't even tell. Something went whack with the show. I'm

still live. I'm not now. Okay, let's go. I'm out

of here. Everybody have a great night. I'll see you

tomorrow night with Whitley Striever. I can't tell. Something is

not disengaging. Yeah, I don't know if I'm still live.

So let's try it this way. Go back, Lee Tepe.

Fade to Black is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman,

and Michelle Free. Special thanks to Bill, John, Dex, Jessica, Dennis,

and Kevin. Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Aldridge. Intro, Spaceboy.

Fade to Black is produced by KJCR for the Game

Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted 2024 by

Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc. It

cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in the

known universe without written permission from Fade to Black or

the Game Changer Network. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Go back,

Lee Taffy.