FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Whitley Strieber

Tonight, author Whitley Strieber joins us for a discussion about us, today, and our future... Transformation. The best.

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Speaker 1: The Smoke Radio for the Masses. Headline edition July 8, 1947.

The Army Air Force has announced that a flying disc

has been found and is now in the possession of

the Army. If the game is rigged, change the game.

Game changer. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide

would vanish if we were facing an alien threat. from

outside this world.

Speaker 2: This is Fade to Black with your host, Jimmy Church,

on the Game Changer Radio Network.

Speaker 1: All right. Good evening.

Speaker 2: How you doing?

Speaker 1: It's Fade to Black. Today is Wednesday, September 23rd, 2026.

I am your host, Jimmy Church. All right. What's going on?

Let's do this. Man, yeah. What a week on Fade

to Black. Monday night, Patricia Corey was here, CERN, and

our shifting realities. Last night, what an amazing conversation with

Chase McCarty, remote viewing and AI. Wow. Wow, right? That

was incredible. I made some phone calls today about Chase.

I did. Yeah. And, uh, to people in the, uh,

not in our industry in, in the computing industry. Oh yeah. Chase.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I was like, really? Oh yeah. Yeah.

I picked up on that vibe. So that was last night, tonight,

the one and only Whitley Streber. All right. Uh, he's

always writing. He's got a new book out. We'll be

talking about that tonight. And, uh, how do I, okay. Well,

tomorrow night, William Henry is here and tomorrow night's going

to be all go Beckley Tepe all night long. My

favorite thing, but tonight highlighted the week for me. Whitley

Streber is here a quick, uh, you know, in the

interest of transparency for everybody, I'm going to watch Whitley laugh.

As I say this, I have spent virtually the last

two weeks with Whitley and, uh, Wow. Right. I mean,

just a great friend and super smart and super fun. And, uh,

the conversations were just amazing. And, uh, there's that. And

then there's the other part. Okay. Did we talk it

all out? Did we talk it all through? No, no, no, no.

Which allows us to go into other areas. And that

is always remarkable with Whitley. And before I just go

into a long introduction for Whitley, there's virtually no reason

to do that because he is the reason why I'm here.

I tell him that all the time and I say

that so often, but his work has guided this community

for a very, very, very long time. And we all

appreciate Whitley for that. I have no idea. I can

ask Whitley. I have no idea how many books he's written.

I have no idea how many screenplays. I don't have

any idea how much of his work has been turned

into film and TV series and all of that. But wow, right?

So with that, let's just cut it short. Let's just

go straight to it and say, Welcome, young man.

Speaker 2: Well, thank you. Thank you for the compliment.

Speaker 1: You know, that was the quickest, simplest introduction I've ever

done for you over the years.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I'm almost as old as you are.

Thanks for calling me young man.

Speaker 1: Whitley, Whitley, Whitley. Okay, so it is kind of funny

with what I just said, which is really true. We

spent a lot of time together over the last couple

of weeks. Yeah, we did. We had a lot of fun. Yeah,

a lot of fun, state hopping, country hopping, doing all

of that stuff together. But, you know, did we exhaust everything?

Did we talk it all out? No. I don't think so.

That I have not managed to do yet. I've still

got a little bit of that in me. You've still

got some left? You've still got some left? I've got

some left. Okay. I am going to ask you a

question that I have never asked you before, which... Oh, God. Right?

It nearly seems impossible, doesn't it? Okay, let me say

this before I ask the question. Whitley and I, we

were sitting... It was late. We're sitting in a lounge

at a hotel talking into the evening. And Whitley goes, man,

you know, our conversations and the way that you guide me,

you know, church, I got to hand it to you,

you know. And I thought about that a lot because

we have had a lot of conversations and interviews over

the years. But so where do we where do I

start off? So I thought about this. OK, I did.

So here's the question I've never asked you that I've

always wanted to ask you. I've read so many of

your books. I've plowed through so much of your stuff

that you have posted on your website. And there's this.

Is your vocabulary while writing different than when you speak

in a conversation? Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2: When I'm speaking in a conversation, I'm having, you know,

I'm not going to use the kind of words that

I necessarily use in writing, because the reason is, in

writing something, you're dealing often with really complex ideas. And

in conversation, not as often. If I'm engaged.

Speaker 1: In a complex conversation about physics or philosophy or something,

or you know, a deep conversation, yeah, then more vocabulary

is needed. But in a regular casual conversation and.

Speaker 2: You know, in a nice normal atmosphere, then no, I'm

not going to be throwing out big words to.

Speaker 1: Intimidate people and amuse myself. It would intimidate me. No,

I've never.

Speaker 2: I've tried hard, Jimmy, over the years, but I've never

succeeded in intimidating you.

Speaker 1: You could use bigger words. All the time that you

had the opportunity to have the visitors show up at

your house and you said no.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: That. That's a true story. I got you there. Yeah,

that's a true story. That's a true story. Yeah, absolutely.

For people that don't know what Whitley and I are

talking about, and then we'll move on with the show,

but this has to do with the visitors.

Speaker 2: We don't necessarily know either, folks.

Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't. We don't. So I'm having a little

get-together at my house, and we had maybe a dozen

people over, close friends. And Whitley was there, and we

were sitting on my back patio having dinner and drinks,

and it was a good electric crowd that we had

sitting around us. And I turned to Whitley, and we're

all talking, laughing, having a good time. And I turned

to Whitley, I go, Whitley, will the visitors stop by tonight?

And as I asked the question, everybody got quiet and

looked at Whitley, right? For the answer. And Whitley goes,

if you want. And everybody just kind of looked around

and said, well, you know, it sounded like a good

idea at first, but let's just stay with dinner. Let's

just stay with dinner.

Speaker 2: It was actually after dinner. It was really late.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it was late. I think it was dessert. I

didn't expect to say that. You know, because I thought

there had... Yeah, I just didn't expect that would come out.

But when it did, I realized... You know, they were nearby.

Speaker 2: They were often, you know, you don't see them. Some

of them are really small. But the other thing is

that they're very good at concealing themselves. And when I

came out of my mouth, I thought, how surprising. I

didn't realize I was going to say that. Now, what's

going to happen if, you know, these people, this happens?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: But then you said no. Everyone said no.

Speaker 1: And we kind of relaxed. Yeah. Well, see, the thing

is when you've got friends together like that and we're

all happy and in a great mood, and then you

start talking a big game. Okay, yeah, let's do it.

Whatever it is. Let's go climate. Let's go– okay. But

you don't, and you stay, and you behave. And that's

what we did. We ended up going you know what? No, no, no.

It was really funny how it got so quiet when

that got thrown out there.

Speaker 2: I was as surprised as you guys because I did

not expect them.

Speaker 1: But they were there. They were right close by. I

don't know where, but somewhere in the far back of

your backyard or something, on the roof or somewhere. But

it was surprising to me, too.

Speaker 2: When I drove home, I thought to myself, you know,

this is a desert, and you're in a desert, and

you're all alone in this car in the dead of

the night. I wonder what's going to happen. But it

stayed quiet.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you texted me when you got home, all safe

and sound. I remember that. That's right. I've arrived safe.

I arrive safe. Back to your writing for a second,

if I may. I love to write, and I'm not

an accomplished writer, but what I do find is that

when my fingers start to move, my brain is drawing

from a vocabulary that I do not speak with. But

I can type it. And after I type it, I

can read it and it flows because it's my head,

my voice. I've always found that really strange. Is that

the same for you where you're able to just let

it flow? The writer is different from the guy who's

talking right now. The writer is a different person. I mean,

they're very linked. They share the same ideas, the same mind,

the same creativity. creativity but when I sit down to

write I'm in a whole different mindset I'm building something

and I've changed in the sense that now there are

two things that are important to me making my piece

with the characters so that I can tell their story

and making sure that I let the reader make the

crucial connections and because it's not fun to read something

where the writer's telling you everything you have to, you

have to be able to make the, you have to

participate in the story. The most single, most important part

of the story is the reader, not the writer and

followed by the characters. The writer is only a technician

in the background. That's very interesting. So it is the

theatrics that are created with the reader. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

The writer, the writer is, uh, The writer is the

servant of the characters and the slave of the readers.

Whenever I read something that is too wordy and too complicated,

I can't absorb it. Exactly. Yeah, it's a really strange sensation.

Other writers that, you know what I mean? It's like

every other word is not as special, and I get

to fill in those blanks. That's right. That's, that's, that's

why it works.

Speaker 2: And that, you know, in the writing, the nonfiction about

the visitors is these ideas in this are often really

very complex and very subtle, but I've got to deliver

them in such a way that people can read it and,

and take in, take all that in without feeling intimidated

or losing the thread. And that, that, I guess if

people always ask me, why did they choose you? And I,

can think of any number of reasons.

Speaker 1: Uh, uh, they were expert practical jokers. Uh, they were, uh,

they made a mistake.

Speaker 2: Um, they were, uh, all kinds of things, but the

real reason probably is that I can do that with

my writing. I can actually communicate what they're trying to say,

what they're trying to communicate with my writing.

Speaker 1: You know, some writers, you know, um, There are some

personalities out there that like to look at their own face,

like to listen to their own voice. And there are

writers that like to read their own words, if you

know what I mean. I read my own words all right.

I can easily go through many, many drafts. I think

my all-time draft record is the vampire novel, Hunger. Where

I went through 50-something manuscripts. I couldn't do that. I

don't know how you have the patience.

Speaker 2: My editor had a nervous breakdown and ended up in

the hospital.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've always been more than a little

intimidated by writers that I respect. I don't. Well, me too.

I'm being serious, too. Yeah. Because there's a serious discipline

to it. Writer's block is a real thing. And there's

that part. But to start with a foreword or a

prologue in a chapter one and somehow get to the

end is very impressive to me. It just seems like

way too much. More than I can handle. The thing

is the blank page.

Speaker 2: And people always come up to me and say, you know,

I want to write. I want to really be a writer.

Speaker 1: I said, well, start slow. Get a character to come

to life in you. And then they're immediately confused because

they always think story first. Get a character to come

to life in you. A character. The character is going

to tell you the story. Because the character, the story

is already in you and so is the character. You

just have to find them.

Speaker 2: But unless you find the character first, you're liable to

find the right story and then have the wrong character

get into it and you don't have anything. But then

the thing you have to do is you have to

forget yourself.

Speaker 1: It's not you. You're not writing.

Speaker 2: People mostly are writing, you know, I want to get published.

I want to be a big writer and all that.

But that's not important.

Speaker 1: You're a servant now. You belong to somebody else. You

belong to your characters and your readers. And story comes

out of that. And the reader is a big part

of story, too. You know, there's a writer, Emily St.

John Mandel, who is a science fiction writer. She's an

extraordinary writer. She is....

Speaker 2: And she can do that beautifully. She really does. She's

an extremely strong writer. Stephen King's another one. He's just very,

very strong. His friend Peter Straub, and my friend, could

never really go there. He had a literary thing that

he wanted to preserve. And I knew Norman Miller a

little bit, not much. He was, of course, a gigantic ego,

but not when he was writing. When the writer sat

down the egotistical Mr. Big stayed in the corner until

he got up and then walked out of the house

and walked out again. Um, so he was, um, and

mostly writers that are, have big egos, leave the egos

behind when they write.

Speaker 1: They have to, if they're good writers. I, um, I

don't know if you've caught this and then everybody, we

will get to them aliens. I promise. But, um, Oh,

they'll get to me if I don't talk about them.

Speaker 2: I'll hear from them. I piss them off too much.

It's really a bad habit.

Speaker 1: I'll let you know when the picture behind you starts

moving again. Oh, God. It's not that bad. Or what

about the time?

Speaker 2: You ever see this video where I'm talking and it's

perfectly normal, and this white stuff just covers my face?

I'll send it to you. I've got it in here somewhere.

Speaker 1: It's called stage makeup.

Speaker 2: No, it's not. I mean, I don't know what it is.

It's really weird.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I have seen it. Ken Burns, talking about writers,

Ken Burns' documentary on Ernest Hemingway is absolutely incredible. It

is beautiful.

Speaker 2: Yeah, what an insight.

Speaker 1: Yeah, right? But here's what was disappointing for me when

it came to Ernest. He never spoke publicly. And he

only did like two interviews in his entire career that

was filmed, right? And those are in the Ken Burns documentary.

And when you listen to Ernest speak, that's not the

guy that's writing. Not at all. No, that's too different.

I was blown away. I'm not going to criticize. I'm

not going to say what I was feeling at the time,

but I was taken aback. I was not expecting that

at all. I was not. You are, to me, like

one of the original experiencers. And and when an experiencer

goes through that whatever that level of experience is is

that the same as disclosure when you had your first

encounters was that disclosure to you or are we talking

about two different things we sort of are and we

sort of aren't you know betty and barney hill had

their experience and that was the first time anyone began

to see this type of weird experiences uh some kind

of a contact with another species whether alien or not

i still don't really know.

Speaker 2: Uh but um when I came along, I was probably

dimly aware of them. I mean, I must have been

because they were all over the news years earlier back

in the 60s.

Speaker 1: And, but I didn't, they weren't first in my mind.

And I, I did not know what to do with this.

Speaker 2: You know, once I realized that it had happened, it

actually happened, it wasn't, something had happened. Then I thought,

Ann said, you know, she, we were fighting and I

was trying to push her away because I thought I

was going crazy. And I didn't want her to be

saddled with a mad nut, someone in a psychiatric ward

for a husband.

Speaker 1: And we got past that when I realized, you know,

what I have to do is sit down and tell Ann,

not that I'm, all the crazy stuff aside, I was

taking a boardwalk saucer by a little man. I told

my friend, Timothy Greenfield Saunders, he's a great guy. He's

a photographer. He lives in New York.

Speaker 2: And, um, he said, we were very close friends. He said, well,

just tell her. And I thought, well, yeah, I got

no choice. So I sat down with her and I,

I told her and she would reacted immediately. She said,

Oh God, now I don't have to worry about getting

a divorce. And, uh, She just rolled with it, and

it was her. She was the one who suggested a book.

And I thought, holy God, no. I'll make a fool

of myself. But then I thought, well, wait a minute.

It's a damn good story. And it's got good characters.

These little guys who did this to me are good characters,

whatever the hell they are.

Speaker 1: I can do this. I can write their story.

Speaker 2: And so I did it.

Speaker 1: And it was just as horrible going out with it

that I feared it would be. I'm still very isolated

in many places and snickered at to this day and

bullied all the time by all kinds of people simply

because they think they can. We can't bully anybody anymore

except the close encounter witnesses are pretty much still fair game.

Not as much as they were, but still pretty much

fair game. You can still go after them if you

want to. You can still laugh them off the stage

of life. When I ask other experiencers and researchers that

question about disclosure and with an experiencer, you get kind

of a mixed bag answer with that. Sometimes... It's relationship.

I'm talking about relationship. The word disclosure means very little

to me. See, that's exactly where I'm going, Whitley.

Speaker 2: It's something they do in Washington that has nothing to

do with the real world. Because showing people pictures of

videos of flying saucers, and even I told Chris Mellon,

the thing you need to do if you want to

really do this is put one of the disks that

we have, if indeed we have, I'm pretty sure we do,

in the Smithsonian so people can see this. He said, well,

we'd never do that. I said, well, then that's disclosure.

Showing the public something they can see with their own eyes,

that's disclosure. Sending out cryptic old memos from 15 years, 20,

50 years ago, and fuzzy video is nothing. It's not

disclosure of anything. And what does disclosure mean?

Speaker 1: What does it mean? It means... that.

Speaker 2: The average individual can make this part of their story.

Speaker 1: That's what it means. And this is why these guys

on these podcasters always are saying, the latest UFO bombshell

from so-and-so, and then there's some talking head pontificating about

something he saw in Area 51 or whatever.

Speaker 2: And no one cares because it's not, getting into their story.

You make things in the world part of a person's

story by showing them that and by showing them how

that is going to enter their life experience. The other

thing is there's supposedly bodies.

Speaker 1: At Fort Detrick.

Speaker 2: I wrote a whole book about this, The Fourth Mind. Okay,

if there are bodies, then show us video of the

bodies and let biologists who examine the bodies, talk to

us on TV on 60 Minutes or somewhere, or on

your show, well, on 60 Minutes.

Speaker 1: Well played, well played, well played. And then, yeah, we'll

get it. It'll become part of our story.

Speaker 2: And believe me, the people behind the scenes who do

social engineering for the government, for the intelligence community, They

understand what I'm saying very clearly. And they will never

put a UFO in the Smithsonian. They will never show

video of those bodies, ever. If that ever happens, it's

because the world is changing so profoundly that what we

know now as our reality is shifting into something else.

That's what it's going to take. AI has messed it

up for everybody. I mean, now nobody cares about seeing

video anymore or images.

Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah, because the best images

are all fake. I know. It's nuts how... desensitized and

how quickly we got to it. What is it about?

Speaker 2: What compels people to flood the world with BS and fakes?

Fake videos, not just this, but everything. There's all kinds of...

The internet has become a gigantic work of fiction disguised

as fact.

Speaker 1: Faction, they used to call it. And it's just useless.

Speaker 2: And not only that, all of that stuff is getting

sucked up in the large language models, which will essentially

go insane in a few years because they will be

unable to tell the difference between what they have collected

that is actually factual and what they have collected that

is made up by people using them to make it up.

Speaker 1: Now, what about the version of disclosure that so many

talk about, which is the only real disclosure is the

president from the Oval Office, you know, with a live broadcast,

we are not alone.

Speaker 2: It's not going to enter people's story, and therefore it

will be saying, yeah, yeah, that's really something, and then

they'll go on down the road. You don't enter their

story unless you take something into it, and a presidential

announcement It'll make a big drum roll, but it won't,

you know, ultimately everybody's going to keep going to work.

Everybody's going to keep raising their kids, worrying about money, having,

watching football, watching baseball, soccer, or whatever around the world.

And nothing is going to change. What it takes to

change that is for this to enter their story. And

the other thing that could happen is what if the,

the grays, for one example, start to come into people's

lives like they did mine. I mean, that's what Transformation,

the new book, 2026 is about.

Speaker 1: They came into our life. I mean, I.

Speaker 2: Invited them in after the communion thing happened and we

settled down. And I sat there thinking, talking to each other,

they're real.

Speaker 1: What do we do?

Speaker 2: And we thought, well, maybe sell the cabin and get

the hell out of here because we've got a little

seven-year-old boy here, six years old at the time. But

then we thought, well, wait a minute. Why don't we

go out and at least see if we can recontact them?

Because they were very scary and it was hard at first,

but now.

Speaker 1: It was not so. hard because I was really fascinated

by what the heck they were so I say to

Ann one night I say well let's go out now

she says oh you go out I've got my little

boy here I'm not going out there I'll stay here

with him and so all of a sudden I find

myself going out into the woods and alone at night

to see if they will come. And they did come.

Speaker 2: They came five days after the first time I managed

to go. It took me quite a while to even

get out of the yard. It was really scary, super scary. And,

but finally I did and I got down and I

sat in the middle of the little clearing where they

had taken me up in the first place. And I

said in my head, and you talk to them in

your head, they hear you. That's why when people are

watching something going across the sky and they're wondering, is

that a UFO or a satellite? All you have to

do is ask. Give me a flash if you're those guys.

And many times you'll get a flash right back if

it's them. They're very good about that. Anyway, they came

to the house. They came to the house and they

knock on the side of the house, on the roof,

way up at the top. No way anyone could even get,

they'd have to have a ladder and a whole elaborate thing.

I would have seen anyone outside. It was night, but

I still would have seen and heard them going up

the ladder.

Speaker 1: No question.

Speaker 2: So they knock on the roof. These three groups of

three knocks in perfect synchronicity, perfectly synchronized. And I would

have gone out there except for one thing. My cats

turned into fur monsters. They looked like giant caterpillars. You know,

when a cat is upset, its tail will puff up.

Did you know that.

Speaker 1: There are conditions under which the entire cat can puff up? Rare.

I've never seen it but that one time. But it

was awesome.

Speaker 2: The cats, I looked at them on the back of

the couch and i thought what they are more scared

and they're sort of moving along on their stomachs on

the back of the couch going oh wow and i

thought the cats are scared and maybe i should be

careful here then years later i read this thing about

this tablet that's been found in sumeria about the origin

of cats as far as the Sumerians were concerned. They

were brought down from another world in order to protect

us from the unseen.

Speaker 1: I was sitting, when I was a kid, I almost said,

when I was a kid reading Communion. Go ahead and

say it. When I was a kid reading Communion, I remember...

We're sitting around in the living room of my house

in Pasadena and, you know, doing what kids do, you know, 20,

21 years old, you know, probably smoking pot and drinking beer.

But I remember this thought popped in my head. And

I said, cats are aliens, right? I think they might be. Yeah.

I said, they have groomed us. To take care of them.

They don't do anything. They don't. They don't. They don't

do anything. They live the life. They're not like dogs. No. No.

Speaker 2: Dogs are hardwired to work. They want to work.

Speaker 1: Yeah. They do stuff. But a cat is hardwired to

sit there and get whatever it needs and sleep and

maybe cuddle up with you every once in a while

if it feels like it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: The cat controls the person. My brother has cats. And

I tell him all the time, you know, you're not

their boss. You're not the boss.

Speaker 1: They are.

Speaker 2: And they control you. You just don't know it. And

there's some kind of a parasite that gets into you

from cats that causes you to become controlled by the cats.

Speaker 1: I'm not remembering this clearly enough. All the cat people

are probably going to be saying, that's not, that's all. Yeah,

because they've already been infected and zombified by the cats. Exactly.

They've already been.

Speaker 2: They've already been hooked into the cat world, and now

they're going to defend it with their lives.

Speaker 1: There's a friend of mine who's in the chat. Her

name is Shelly. Hello, Shelly. And Shelly, she's amazing. But

she sent me some videos of her with her cat.

Her cat's not a normal cat. I don't know what

it's called. Shelly, what kind of cat do you have?

Put it in the chat. This cat is like this big,

looks like a leopard. It's got spots. giant cat right

okay that that that sounds like a uh a uh

sir a serval is that is that somebody else said

that to me too as well um yeah uh a

savannah she's got a savannah savannah.

Speaker 2: He had a savannah for a long time.

Speaker 1: She says savannah f1 right so that's a very good

savannah there they're uh.

Speaker 2: They're wonderful cats. They're extremely smart. And they have a,

they look like miniature leopards.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Oh, man.

Speaker 2: They make a funny noise. And Richard, my brother, loved

his Savannah.

Speaker 1: So this, her Savannah appears to me to be more

connected to humans than other cats. Maybe it's the breed.

But this cat, They're highly intelligent. Very. I watched this

cat jump into a bathtub full of water to retrieve

their toy and jump out. You know what I mean?

It was really cool. Yeah, they don't mind water. They're

comfortable with water. No, that cat went like this, looked,

and said, okay, I'm getting my stuff.

Speaker 2: As I recall, my brother Savannah wanted to get in

the shower with him.

Speaker 1: Really? Really.

Speaker 2: I think so. It might have been another cat, but

I think it was a Savannah. Shelly's laughing right now.

I didn't tell them about the rest of the video, Shelly.

Let's keep that on the down low.

Speaker 1: You have many secrets, Jimmy, many, many secrets. You know what?

So back to the visitors, though. And the reason why

I bring this up is because when you want to

divide a room, Like divide the room, bring up Jesus

or bring up, just say, I don't need disclosure. I've

already had it. Then you divide the room, right? Because

so many need their version of disclosure for their health

and wellness, their family, their relationships. So they can turn,

you know, to their wives or their husband and go see,

you know, and like, like, um, like the situation with

you and Ann where she said, okay, now I don't

have to get a divorce. Right? Right.

Speaker 2: She figured, she was good with the idea of the visitors.

She understood right away what they were. It wasn't a

surprise to her. It was very strange because you'd think,

I mean, she never, we never talked about, we never,

I don't think we exchanged a single word about this

until I sat, about aliens and stuff, until I sat

down with her that night And yet, at the time

when I did it, she was ready to go immediately.

I've always wondered, you know, what was actually going on there?

Because she was a kid from Ann Arbor, Michigan. I

was a kid from San Antonio, Texas. We were not special.

And yet, she seemed to know how to manage contact

with aliens. Whoa, I mean, what was going on?

Speaker 1: It was amazing.

Speaker 2: She was the one who titled the book and everything.

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right. When you travel, whether it's out

of state, out of country, or across town, the visitors follow?

You know what I mean? Are you surprised if they

are there? It depends.

Speaker 2: No, I am waked up often for the 3 a.m.

For those of you who don't know, since my wife

passed away, I've begun to be, I was begun in 9th, 2015,

late 2015 to be waked up at 3am by all

kinds of different ways. Uh, some of them, you know, like, uh,

the first time they pinched my toe, whoever it was,

pinched my toe. And, you know, then they pinched one

of my nipples the next night that pretty hard. I mean,

they were really getting me going. And, uh, then for Years.

They woke me up every night at about the same

time to do this meditation, this sensing exercise that I

do where you take your attention and you put it

on your body and you let your mind keep going.

Speaker 1: You don't try to force your mind to be silent.

Just let it keep rolling. And apparently that's something they

really like.

Speaker 2: I mean, it sets up a glow. It makes you

visible in other levels of reality.

Speaker 1: And they can commune with you that way. Why 3 a.m.?

Is 3 a.m. from you or from them? Well, there's

a reason. It's from them. And it turned out to

be a reason. I was mystified by it for years.

And I was talking about it on a show. I

learn a lot on shows, boy, because there's a lot

of people out there who have, you know, there's always

somebody with some good information. And if you have an

open chat and stuff. So someone brings up something called

Brahma Muhurtha time, which is, it turns out, an ancient tradition.

Speaker 2: Yogic practice where you do an opening meditation at that hour,

an hour and a half before dawn. And that's why

it was never the same exact time each night. And

I couldn't set an alarm at 3 a.m. because I

wouldn't necessarily even be there. But it was an hour

and a half before dawn, approximately. And that's when the

mind is most open. and can receive signals from higher levels.

And I've written every book since Afterlife Revolution using that

technique because I get these, not downloads, but it's more

like a committee discussing my books with me in that state.

It's quite wonderful.

Speaker 1: It's precious. Now, they don't wake me up anymore, but

If I don't get up on my own.

Speaker 2: They figure, you know, you're out of the classroom now.

You're in the big time or in the medium big time.

So it's up to you. But if I don't do it,

then things will start to happen. They start to get

pretty aggressive about it.

Speaker 1: How so? Well, intrusive dreams happen.

Speaker 2: Of a kind that I never have, you know, like

the dream that I'm on fire or something like that,

something that just gets you jumping right out of bed,

stuff like that. And, uh, other, other, other things that

will happen. Uh, there was one period when they were,

it was explosions that would happen outside of this huge

explosion in the middle of the night that was unexplained. Um,

And now it's really up to me. And they will

wake me up if I don't get up for two

or three nights. It's not fun anymore. It's not like

it used to be. It'll be, you know, something pretty violent.

Some kind of a scary noise or a horrifying dream

or like a slap on my face. arm, you know,

hard slap and it's something that'll jump, make me jump

right out of bed.

Speaker 1: The other night, um, I was in my garage. It

was about 10 o'clock at night and I'm in my

garage and, uh, everything's quiet and everything. And right to

my left, I was facing the garage door. So to

my left was a knock on that wall, like a, right? Yeah,

that's very familiar. Dude, I didn't even get up. I

didn't even get up. I didn't go look. You wouldn't

have found anything. It's funny how numb I am to

it now. Are you getting numb-er? No, I'm not numb

to it at all. I'm very engaged because this is

my Now, this is where my writing starts, is at

that meeting. And I want that meeting. You know, I'm

trying to write a movie idea, and they're not interested.

They really want me to get on their book that

they're interested in. And so I'm not getting much from

them right now. I've been bargaining with them. You know,

if you help me with this, I'll be finished with it,

and then I'll get on our book faster. Faster. But,

you know, they're not, they don't. They don't like deal making.

They don't like deal making. They don't like negotiation. They

don't like negotiation.

Speaker 2: What, when you say this. I'm saying they a lot.

And people are all assuming, well, that's the grays. But

I actually don't know. And it's certainly, it's a non-physical presence.

It is semi-physical because they can touch me.

Speaker 1: They can.

Speaker 2: Vibrate my body and do all kinds of things. But

is she involved? Is she involved? Those two ladies back there?

And what is it exactly when you are past the

level of the physical world? The veil is now, the

veil between the living and the dead is now lifted

pretty much in my life. So who am I dealing with?

And the answer is, There's no difference in that level.

There's no separation between what.

Speaker 1: We think of as alien and what we think of

as human.

Speaker 2: It's a really, really incredible, intricately woven living presence that's

consciousness itself. And all of this vast outpouring of reality

that has been going on for billions of years is

part of it. And it is magnificent, incredibly aware. And frankly,

you feel it right away.

Speaker 1: Well, what's their intention? What's their intention, though? Joy.

Speaker 2: It is joyous. It is very joyous. And yet, at

least I can still piss it off. And still get

in trouble anyway. And, you know, Ann said, you know, Whitley,

you are really the most annoying person I've ever known.

Speaker 1: You're pretty annoying. Well, now, wait a minute, Jimmy.

Speaker 2: We've been friends a long time. I've never annoyed you

at all.

Speaker 1: Ever. Let's talk about soundcheck today. Yeah, yeah. I did

the soundcheck. I was very nice and very cooperative. And

I did. But I'm always tiptoeing around you, Whitley. I

never know when you're just going to flare up.

Speaker 2: Well, that's because I never know myself when I'm just

going to play around.

Speaker 1: And often I do just play around. You said something

very interesting, though. I'm going to interrupt you. You said

something very interesting. That sometimes you can piss them off

and you know how to do it. Walk me through.

What are you suggesting there? Well....

Speaker 2: You know, recently I really pissed them off big time.

Or they lost it.

Speaker 1: They had a temper tantrum because they were sick and

tired of my fetching about the abduction.

Speaker 2: And, you know, I don't know why they were so

pissed off because I've only been complaining about the abduction

for 40 years.

Speaker 1: That's almost nothing. So anyway.

Speaker 2: I get this letter, and this is all up on

my YouTube channel, or it's on the podcast. If you

want to get into it, it's there. I get this

email from this telepath sent by a third party. I'm

pretty sure I know who the telepath is, but I'm

not going to press that because this person wishes to

remain anonymous. So I'm not going to try to make

them tell me, you know, in other words, I don't

work that way. They want to remain anonymous.

Speaker 1: Fine. That's their business.

Speaker 2: And I read this thing and it's this unbelievably angry

letter from allegedly from the visitors, the grays or the

hybrids and or both. And I look at it and

there are things in it about me and my relationship

with them.

Speaker 1: That only they and I know. No one else.

Speaker 2: So, I think, well, this is, on some level, this

is real. It has to be. And not only that,

it has their signature emotional reaction, which is unlike ours.

It's something called deny, attack, reverse victim order. You blame

the victim. And this was articulated by a psychologist called

Jennifer Freud from Harvard, who identified it as a technique

used by narcissistic and psychopathic personalities. Now, they're not narcissistic

or psychopathic, but they can get angry and they can

get frightened. And this was so interesting to me because

in all the years I've been with them, I've only

seen one other instant when they were frightened.

Speaker 1: One of them was frightened and that was when I

came across one of them during the day.

Speaker 2: In a very dense thicket near my cabin. And I

thought it was a deer looking at me. And so

I went over there, but it was no deer. And

when I got close to it, I could see it

was a gray. And I started to go toward it.

And the sounds that poor little guy made trying to

get away, that was absolutely core fear of death. and

so I just stopped and I let it slip back.

Speaker 1: Because of the discovery that, you know, you find, no,

I think, I think that when we get to the

point where we see them and, and there.

Speaker 2: Is a face to face that everybody knows happened video

face to face or whatever it is, that is a,

a fundamental inflection point in time. And unless that happens

at the exact right moment, I think it's going to

cause some kind of chaotic disaster of a kind that

we probably can't even understand right now. But the fear

that I saw that night, that afternoon, was unbelievable. And

this letter expresses a same level of fear And I

know that we have been working hard on weapons that

will effectively control them and will effectively, that they can't overcome.

And I think they're scared because they need to be

here because I think that if they're not here, if

we succeed in driving them off, we might go down

the tubes. I think they're the best chance we have.

Speaker 1: And Is it because– I just want to get this

thought out if I can. Is it because they are

acclimated to not being seen and operating in another frequency

or another dimension and they're free to move around and

do that and they're not used to being seen out

of their control? I think control is a big part

of it. Right. And I think that.

Speaker 2: This has something to do, and I almost don't want

to go down this other path right now. Let's continue

on this line where we're now, with time. And everything

has to happen at an exact, exactly the right time,

or it's not going to work right.

Speaker 1: And this is why I think they're so obsessed with

the secrecy and why nothing's going to happen until it's

the right time.

Speaker 2: And then when it is the right time, it will happen.

Like the whole, let's go back to the disclosure process.

Look at this from another level. Back in 1952, we

had the capital flyovers. And it was the beginning of

a long period where we were gradually getting acclimatized to

their presence in the world, to our having to live

in basically a new world, a new frequency, as you say.

And over that time, they have been gradually, slowly acclimatizing

to us. Nowadays, many times, if you go outside in

any night and you have a good clear sky, you're

liable to see a UFO up there. And I was

just talking to someone the other day.

Speaker 1: Who saw a UFO on the ground in Woodstock, New York,

a few weeks ago. Oh, really? And that did not happen.

Absolutely did not happen. What do you mean? Now it does. And, well,

in 1956 or 57, there was a close encounter with

a UFO in far west Texas, in Leveland, Texas, where

it was seen near the ground by people in cars,

oddly enough, My best friend at that time, when we

were boys, father was there and actually had witnessed this.

But that was extremely rare in those days. Nowadays, people

have abduction experiences, close encounter experiences, movements to different frequencies,

UFO sightings day and night. We have video of aliens

running across the road in different places that are real.

And that picture of that little being coming.

Speaker 2: Up out of the basement in Mexico that's flying around

is real.

Speaker 1: It's a real picture. Have you seen the video of T-Rod, Iran?

Have you seen that video yet? T-Rod, yeah. I don't

know about that. It's an interesting video. I don't know

what to make of it. I don't either. It's a

disc with lights. Oh, man. I think the video was real.

I think that the object in the video is real.

It's not CG or AI. I think the video is real.

The object is real. What is the object? And it's

Tehran of all places where we're in the middle of

this war with Iran. Right. And so is it us

showing– trying to scare the people– the military of Iran

with secret weapons or something in the sky? That's a

real possibility. Is it ET checking up on us in

the middle of a war, which always seems to happen, right?

Is it something altogether or– Is it somebody flying a

kite with lights on it? The confusing thing about this video,

and I think that the video is real. The video

is authentic. I don't know what's in the video.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know what it is, but it is

a real video, absolutely.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And it's RGB. It's red, green, and blue lights. Oh,

you can't see it here, but you've seen it. I

have a string of lights that go around the ceiling

in here, and I can change the color, and it's

all automated. And it goes into patterns if you want

it to. I just keep it in one color. But anyway,

what is in this video reminds me of what I

can do with these lights. So is it somebody playing

a game, you know, flying? I don't know. I don't

know what to make of it. It's an authentic video. Now,

what's crazy about that video is the interest in it.

That's what I like, where people aren't, there's a general,

genuine interest in the subject right now outside of our community. Yeah,

that's true.

Speaker 2: People are beginning to see this as something that's part

of their story, like we were talking about earlier. They're

just beginning to. They're not as passive to it as

they used to be. Now they're getting interested, and the

more interest that they get, I think the more engagement

they do, the more likely it is that we're going

to get into a contact situation as a species, which

is the next step here. And that's what, I mean,

that happened to us. That's what Transformation 2026 is about,

is what happened to us back in 1988-89, or 87-88,

excuse me, updated to now. Not the stories changed, but

amplified by, you know, what I know now. after all

these years of having the experience and studying it and

so forth.

Speaker 1: How has it evolved? We're going to head to a break.

We'll pick this up. I want you to think about

this when we come back. How have you evolved? And

is it okay to change your mind, right, through experience

and discovery and data? Is it okay to change your mind?

So many people want the story or your belief system

to absolutely not change. And I don't think that's how

you grow. I think we should be entitled and adult

enough to learn and change our minds. So I want

you to think about that because it's a complex answer.

Our guest tonight, Whitley Streber. We're going to take our break.

I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Whitley, stay right there. And

we'll be right back after this short break. Stay with us.

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Welcome back. Fade to black. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Tonight,

Whitley Streber is with us. Whitley, how have you evolved? How...

Have your thoughts and opinions changed over the years? Where

are you today? Well, first of all, one of the

things that's happened over time is people will jump on

you if you change your story. And I would too.

Speaker 2: And that has not happened. My story is essentially the

same story as it's always been. What has happened, though,

is my understanding of the story has changed. And therefore,

my interpretation of what it all means has also changed.

And that you have to be allowed to do. That

you have to be allowed to do. If I've got

the facts of something straight, and then I later decide, well,

maybe those aren't the facts, then people are justifiably concerned

about that.

Speaker 1: They think, well, where is he coming from? But I

haven't had that experience. When I look back over my life,

The factual material has not changed.

Speaker 2: Not any of it. And there's a lot of it.

But my understanding has really changed. You know, in Transformation 2026,

and that's in a way why I wrote it, because

we're coming up on a time in the world where

a lot of people could have contact experiences with their families. Because,

I mean, the Grays, if they're anything like what we experienced...

They're coming into your kids' bedrooms, too. I mean, they're

not just stopping at your house, in your living room or.

Speaker 1: With the adults.

Speaker 2: It's a whole family affair. And, you know, back in

the day, when this happened a couple times when other

children were.

Speaker 1: There, we called every.

Speaker 2: Family that our son had friends who might come to

the cabin with. And we made sure they all had

copies of Communion and had read and understood it. And

then we said, these presences, whatever they are, are coming

to the cabin. And some of the children have already

seen them.

Speaker 1: Do you, if you.

Speaker 2: Don't feel comfortable with your child coming, just tell us

and we will make sure that, you know, we won't

invite them anymore, but we'll do it in such a

way that The child doesn't feel left out. We'll invite

him to the apartment in Manhattan and stuff like that.

Everyone had the same reaction.

Speaker 1: Hell no.

Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, we want our kids to have this experience.

Speaker 1: It's extraordinary. Let it happen.

Speaker 2: And so it happened all.

Speaker 1: The time to the kids. Lots of kids.

Speaker 2: Now, this means that the book is there because it

talks about what that was like And the story, the

facts are the same now as they were then. But

what has changed is the way I understand this. And that,

you have to have the right to change that. You

can't be told, no, once you've said one thing about something,

then you have to just stick with that.

Speaker 1: It's like a perfect example is the thing that, went

on with me years ago. Remember the Charles Whitman shooting

where he's the first one of the first mass shooters

went up on the tower at the University of Texas

and started shooting students. I was very traumatized by that.

Speaker 2: And I said two things about it. First, I said

I wasn't there. Then I said I was there. And

I couldn't make up my mind. And so I'd said

these two different things at different times. And Bud Hopkins

was doing his Whitley Strieber, destroyed Whitley Strieber shtick at

the time because he was angry.

Speaker 1: I'd annoyed him. We've already talked about that. I'm good

at that. And so.

Speaker 2: He was saying, well, he's changed his story. Therefore, he's unreliable.

And that's not wrong.

Speaker 1: But in reality, In the case of a traumatic experience,

the story remains unstable, especially if you get a version

of PTSD, which was really not articulated in the science

very well in the 60s when that happened. What happened was.

Speaker 2: I was on my way up to this beer garden.

I mean, I went up that day to Austin because

a beer garden, which was of of course, of great

interest to me in those days.

Speaker 1: As a student.

Speaker 2: Schultz's Beer Garden was having its 100th anniversary that evening.

And I was certainly intending to be there. And I

was walking onto the campus and I heard these shots

or loud bangs. And then I heard people screaming and

I ran like hell and got in my car and

drove home. And then I was at home watching it

on TV. still going on an hour, hour and a

half later. And it was very traumatic. And first I

just said, well, I wasn't there. But then I felt

uneasy about that because, you know, I had run, it's true.

Speaker 1: But I was there.

Speaker 2: And I could eventually prove it because I saw a

little boy get shot and it when we dug into

it it turned out that happened and it happened exactly

where I thought it had happened he wasn't shot badly

I thought he had been shot in the back but

he'd actually just been shot in the leg but he

He was on a bicycle, and when he got shot

in the calf muscle, he pitched forward grabbing his calf,

and it looked to me like he'd been shot dead.

Speaker 1: That's what I thought. So that's an example of trying

to deal with facts that are mixed up with trauma.

All close encounter experiences are traumatic, whether it seems peaceful

or not. you are experiencing something that is outside of

your box, way outside of it.

Speaker 2: And you are not going to be able to assemble

that easily because everything, most everything you are seeing and

experiencing has no comparatives in your brain. And the brain

is a relational database. It works and makes sense of

the world by constantly relating things to other things. And

when that ability is broken, the memories become very unstable.

Speaker 1: Yeah, when you see something for the first time that

you've never seen before, your brain doesn't know how to

process it.

Speaker 2: Right, and that's why we have childhood amnesia because when

we're little and we're doing that basically all the time

and the brain's trying to make the sense of the world,

it leaves no trace behind because... Most of what it finds,

especially early on, does not make sense. So you don't

remember that. So this is a tremendously complex issue. In

my case, I think, and I discussed this with the

doctor who originally treated me, Dr. Donald Klein, briefly, that

he said, there seems to me, he said, that you

might've had more of this experience in your life before

than you realize, because I think that you, he said,

I got the impression that you knew more about what

was going on than you're telling me.

Speaker 1: And I said, well, I sure didn't. I'm certain I'm

not consciously aware of it.

Speaker 2: He said, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying

that based on during the, during the hypnosis, I suddenly

flashed back to the age of 12. And, uh, And

that opened up a whole new journey for me. And

he thought that there had been other experiences. Now looking back,

something happened the summer before. I got, we bought the

cabin in March and we moved up. We went up

on weekends and I was very uncomfortable from the very beginning.

And here we buy this cabin in the woods. We

live in the village. At the time, it was pretty

violent down there. Shootings and things were happening. It was

a pretty hairy place. And then we go to this

wonderful country house side where there hasn't been a crime

in years.

Speaker 1: I'm not scared in the village in Manhattan. I'm terrified

in the country where there's nothing going on. So Ann was,

she got to the point where she actually got the sheriff,

the deputy sheriff to talk to me on the phone.

And he sheepishly admitted that there hadn't been a crime

in our town in his memory. And he'd grown up

in the area. So, any case, I'm very traumatized by

something in the summer. And I'm building an alarm system.

I can't sleep. I buy guns. I'm going crazy, basically.

Speaker 2: And I'm seeing things out of the corner of my

eye that can't be there. And I'm having these horrendous.

Speaker 1: Headaches every afternoon.

Speaker 2: These headaches are caused by pushing away something that you've

seen that you can't afford to look at. You, that will,

that will, that can generate a headache. And there's even,

I've read, I can't call up the details now, but

I've read studies about the.

Speaker 1: Way that kind of thing can happen. And, uh, I've

seen it happen to other people too.

Speaker 2: So that was already happened. They were already coming to

the house in the summer. And I have no memory

at all of any of that. Uh, And then the

fall comes and this weird thing happens and there are

other people at the house.

Speaker 1: That's the October event.

Speaker 2: And this time, the other people react. And so I

can't blow it off. It happened.

Speaker 1: And, you know, because the next morning they're asking me

what happened. What was that explosion? Why did it get

so bright that it looked like daylight? Was fear the

thing with everybody? Fear was doing it.

Speaker 2: Because this experience causes your whole worldview to explode.

Speaker 1: Your whole.

Speaker 2: Grasp on reality is blown to bits when you get

face to face with this.

Speaker 1: There is nothing in the world.

Speaker 2: Like being face to face with something that is not

human that is not an animal by any stretch of

the imagination, and is clearly extremely smart and extremely.

Speaker 1: Aware of you. That has got to be.

Speaker 2: The most intimidating experience a person can have. And I

was having that in the summer, and I was pushing

it away. And I would have to take headache pills

every afternoon because it was unendurable.

Speaker 1: The pain of it was intense.

Speaker 2: And, you know, there was a scientist, John Gleitman, who

came to the cabin once. And we were all sitting

in a circle down in the place where the event

had happened.

Speaker 1: In the noontime.

Speaker 2: And this beautiful shaft of light came down from above.

And it was not natural. There was no question whatsoever

about that. And everyone was having fun looking at it

and looking at each other through it. Because when you

look through it at another person, they were like very

You saw them very clearly, like it was just the

most clear light in the world. Only one person couldn't

see it, John Glideman, the psychologist and physicist. And it

was because he was pushing it away with his mind,

because it would blow up his whole worldview. He could

not handle it. And then all afternoon, he was incapacitated

with a headache. And they had to go home, finally.

Speaker 1: When we talk about transformation, Is that, I mean, there's

a lot of things that could be transforming, but is

that part of the transformation, how you've gone from fear

and headaches and PTSD to a non-fear situation? Yeah, absolutely.

That's what it's about. Right.

Speaker 2: Because, you know, that letter I referred to from them

earlier where they were all pissed off.

Speaker 1: At me, they were not wrong.

Speaker 2: And they were saying, you know, we gave you all

of these gifts and you're still, all you can do

is carp about the abduction. And if you ask some

brilliant scholar like Jeff Kripal, who's one of the most

brilliant scholars on this subject in the world, and I

had the privilege of writing a book with him, Supernatural.

In any case, you ask someone like that, And he

will say, well, this is an initiatory experience.

Speaker 1: It's meant to blow.

Speaker 2: Up your vision of reality so you can build a

new one. And when I look at the life that

happened to me after that abduction, they have showered me

with gifts.

Speaker 1: I would not have.

Speaker 2: This life I've had. And it's an extraordinary life. You

talk about interesting. Ann used to say, I signed on

for an interesting life. And I didn't realize what I

was actually going to get because this is really, really interesting. Well,

what's the saying? A new world if you can take it. Yeah,

that's from Phil Corso. And I think it's the most,

it is one of the two most important things, three

most important things ever said in the whole experience. What

is on offer for us is, is a new world

if you can take it. And the warning is from

the Crabwood Crop.

Speaker 1: Formation in 2002 in the little community in England, this

formation that had a face of a visitor and an

ASCII disc beside it and a few other things, all

done in crop, and there's no way anyone with boards

on their feet or any instrument whatsoever in our position

Possession could do this. But the ASCII code translates is

into something that is the second most important message. Beware

the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. There

is much pain, but still time. There is good out there.

Not in here, but out there.

Speaker 2: The bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. We're

behind the scenes dicking around with that stuff.

Speaker 1: Right now that's what the secret is you know what

I was reading last night and I don't know exactly

what you just said that made me remember this but

I was reading H.G. Wells The Time Machine okay And

I get to the end. It is such a fantastic

book and such a fantastic story. It's one of the best.

But when you consider how old it is, you know,

that was written before, probably before electricity or right around that,

you know, it's an old. I didn't hear the name

of the book. Wait a minute. The Time Machine. Oh,

The Time Machine.

Speaker 2: I thought you said another title, and it wouldn't have

been written then.

Speaker 1: So, okay. Yeah, The Time Machine. So I get to

the end, and what great visuals, great writing, but very depressing.

Because he's alone. It's a moonscape. Humanity's gone. It's a wasteland.

And the way that H.G. Wells writes it, I often

wonder if that kind of outlook towards our future is

too depressing. And what do the visitors have for us? Now,

you're saying joy, right? Joy. Well, listen– I want to

become a cosmic species. I don't want to end up

on a moonscape. Right, right, right.

Speaker 2: I mean, we're facing all kinds of problems with the

weather and the political world is all screwed up all

over the world. It could blow up at any moment.

But I want to take us out into this universe

on a journey of discovery that never ends.

Speaker 1: That's my life goal. And you don't do that if

you're creeping around shooting at everybody no you do that

yourself a chance you got to give yourself a chance

and that means to live from your joy of being

your love of your love of yourself and your fellow

man that's where the strength is and that's where we

can grow into a cosmic species now will et do

that i will disclosure do that will that bring us

together or is there going to be do we have

to go through fear first Well, look, I know the.

Speaker 2: Greys at this point well enough to know that if

they decide that fighting us is going to make us

strong enough to get our tails off this planet and

save ourselves, they're going to fight us. Because their job,

they don't care about being thought of as Mr. Nice

Guy or anything else. Their job is to help us

get off this planet and become a cosmic species.

Speaker 1: Whatever that means.

Speaker 2: It may not mean flying to Orion in a spaceship.

It may mean something else. But the point is to

do it. And they will pull out all the stops.

And they don't care whether we like them or not.

Speaker 1: And it's just like, you.

Speaker 2: Know, I've never wanted to dance with them. But I

have always grown from my relationship with them. And I'm

incredibly thankful for their presence in my life and their.

Speaker 1: Astonishing ability to stay with.

Speaker 2: Me despite all of the mistakes I make and the

cussedness and the stubbornness and all of it. But they

stay with me. They're not going anywhere. Neither am I,

for that matter.

Speaker 1: No, you're not. There's a strange fact. That is hard

for us. To digest. And I'll present it like this.

There are. Most of the planet. Most of it. Thinks that.

Earth is forever. That's it. It's forever. They don't understand.

That it's not. And eventually. No matter what. We have

to leave. The sun's going to become unstable. Our planet

will become a lump of coal. And there won't be

anybody here to witness it because we will be gone.

We have to leave eventually. This is not going to

be here until the end of everything. No, no. In fact,

it's not that far away. We're not immortal. No, no, no.

99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth

are extinct. Are gone. And this planet goes through extinction

events all the time. They're routine.

Speaker 2: The planet turns everything over and starts over again routinely

every few million years. And it's arguable that we've been

in an extinction event for the past 2.8 million years.

Ever since the Central American.

Central America rose up out of the ocean and split

the ocean into the Atlantic and the Pacific. And the

trans-equatorial current was interrupted that kept the climate extremely even.

And there were no seasons. There were very mild seasons.

And now it's two different circulations. And the planet's relationship

to the sun has changed. And it's since then been

going through a cycle of ice ages. We think of

the ice age, the Pleistocene. But there were many ice

ages before that. It's been in this unstable situation of

ice age after ice age for years, 2.8 million years.

And the ice ages last about 100,000 years. Then there's

a 10 or 12,000 year interglacial, which climaxes in an

overheating of the planet And then that all settles down

and another ice age begins. We're at the point of

the overheating right now.

Speaker 1: And that's going to happen. And then the planet will

change again. We're in the middle of an extinction event.

It's happening now. We wouldn't even exist if it wasn't

for the extinction event.

Speaker 2: Because the ice, we were just happy little campers running

around on the forest floor and climbing through the trees

eating berries until the ice came and the weather changed

and we ended up with no forest and we were

out on the savannah with all these big animals and

it was cold as hell. We went into that naked

and afraid and came out of it covered with furs

and talking languages and making all kinds of extraordinary and

beautiful stone and bone tools. And Cro-Magnon was the last

man left standing.

Speaker 1: And here we are. And how long will we be here? Well,

ask the dinosaurs. And it's not doom and gloom. No.

It's nature. It's nature. It's the way things should be.

And in the context of this, I'm not saying, oh,

mankind is doomed and isn't that too bad? I'm saying

this is a time of birth. And who are all

these aliens around us? They're here for one of two reasons.

We're going down the birth canal. Earth's waters have broken.

That's what all the weather, horrible weather we're having around

the world now is about. There's too many of us.

It's not our fault. It was Thomas Malthus back in the.

Speaker 2: 18th century who calculated population increases was right. It's just

nature that has put us where we are. There's no

sense in arguing with each other about it because it's

going to happen anyway. We're going to have a vast.

Speaker 1: Change in the experience of being human. And a lot

of lives are going to be lost in this.

Speaker 2: That's what the birth is about. The waters of the

earth break. The little baby, which is mankind, is projected

out into something else. And I can't tell you what

it is any more than a baby can tell you

what's going to happen when he reaches the end of

the birth canal and comes out into the midwife's arms.

But that's going to happen to us. And these guys

are either midwives or they're undertakers. And I think that

they were trying very hard to be midwives. I don't

think they want to be undertakers. And what will be,

will be like then that I don't.

Speaker 1: Know, Jimmy. Will, will the goal of, building a starship,

a generational starship, out in Earth's orbit and eventually, you know,

star crew, is that the catalyst we need to unite

this planet where we can forget about borders and religions

and politics and just realize that we're all earthlings? And

we are one. Do you think that's a catalyst that

will kick it into gear?

Speaker 2: If we realize the planet is going to go down

in flames, I have a feeling that not too many

people are going to be interested in spending money on

a starship that will carry 50 families maybe to another planet,

another star system. I have a feeling that they won't

want to do that.

Speaker 1: What's the alternative? Live underground? I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2: But look at the way the grays are. They appear

and disappear. I've seen them dematerialize. Last summer, a friend

of mine who was working on a movie with me

gets abducted and she's grabbed by the wrist and pulled

right up through the ceiling of her house and has

two hours of missing time. Now, Whatever they were once,

they weren't always able to do that. Or look again

at this book, They Flew by Carlos Ayer. It is

so fantastically cool. And what's cool about it is, it's

about the levitators of the early modern and late medieval

era in Spain and France. I mean, Spain and Italy.

You know, Mary of Agreda, Joseph of Cupertino and the others,

there's quite a few of them.

Speaker 1: Diana Pasylka talks about them. She knows all about this.

Speaker 2: Anyway, he writes this book, and he doesn't say they flew,

except on the cover.

Speaker 1: He says they flew on the cover. He doesn't claim

that in the book. And he doesn't need to, because

he uses all of the inquisitorial investigation and testimony, to

prove they must have, because so many people saw it.

Speaker 2: Now, in The Fourth Mind, I calculated how light a

body would have to get in order to go up

in the air. And you have to lose essentially all

of your body mass, all of the calcium, all of

the liquid, everything and more in order to do that.

but people did it. And why did they do it?

It's pretty clear that they were in states of total

religious ecstasy that caused their egos to just disappear. And

when the ego disappeared, all kinds of powers appeared instead.

Mary of Agreda could bilocate all the way to the Americas.

Joseph of Cupertino used to make the bishop in his

church so nervous because he would levitate and his body

would drift in the heat the heat of the candles

would cause him to drift toward the altar he was

afraid that this levitating saint would get set on fire

by the candles and so he made him stay outside

during mass chained.

Speaker 1: Him up and ends up in trees this is so

fantastic and so cool And telepathy.

Speaker 2: Kai Dickens, Diane Powell, the telepathy tapes, the spellers, incredible.

Speaker 1: And it's spreading.

Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who saw the telepathy

or heard the telepathy tapes or hear the telepathy tapes

and are going to see the fabulous documentary that Kai made.

It's going to be on, I believe, on Amazon or Netflix.

I don't remember, which I saw it a few months ago.

Speaker 1: Fabulous. I mean, totally, you come out of that knowing

telepathy is real. And therefore, there's something in your head too.

Speaker 2: And you can do this. And this is going to spread.

What is the birth about? It's about becoming a new

species is what it's about. And something wonderful, something extraordinary.

And who knows whether or not we will be able

to gain something a relationship with our planet, so intimate,

so loving, and so knowledgeable that we.

Speaker 1: Can control the planet's weather and its life and balance

it from the will of the heart itself.

Speaker 2: So let's not say it has anything to do with

some tech bro, multi-billionaire bozo making money on a starship,

because I don't think it does. I think it has

to do with the fact that we are very much

more wonderful than we dare to think.

Speaker 1: Last week, after I said goodbye to you, I was

with a group of friends right after that when we

had lunch last weekend in San Diego. So I head out.

I'm with a group of people. And so I'm talking

to somebody that I just met. An attorney. She's a she.

And she was fascinating. And then I was asking her

about what kind of law and stuff. And then she

asked me what I did. And I said, oh, God, man,

do I really have to say this? So I did.

And she goes, oh, this is an attorney, by the way. Okay.

I was abducted. Just like that, Whitley. Just like that.

And I said, Excuse me? She goes, okay, well, this

is what happened. And this is what she, this is

an attorney who I'm sure does not tell this story

too often, right? Okay. She said she was dreaming that

she was pulled by her feet out of bed through

a wall onto a ship and it was a nightmare

and she was scared and returned to her bedroom on

her floor through the wall. She said when she opened

her eyes, she was on the floor in her bedroom.

And then the whole memory came back that she realized

it wasn't a dream because she remembered everything. And she

started to, I was like, what? She goes, yeah. I

was pulled out of bed. I hit the floor, then

was pulled through the wall by my feet, feet first. Now,

how do we process that? Now, I listen to this

like what you had just told to me, right? When

she was grabbed by her hand and pulled through the ceiling.

Almost the same experience, right? Now, what do we do

with that? I'm not... So sure, because for us, that

is extremely terrifying. But I don't think that the abduction

experience is meant to be terrifying. Well, I don't know

about that. To them.

Speaker 2: Because when a baby is first pulled out of the womb,

what does the baby do? Starts to scream. Because he's suddenly...

in all this light and noise and cold, and has

no idea what's going on. And then the baby experiences

his mother in a new way.

Speaker 1: He's been part of his mother always, like we're part

of the earth.

Speaker 2: But all of a sudden, he's laid on his mother's chest,

on her breast, and he experiences for the first time

the presence of another person. And, you know, I have

a picture of my granddaughter at the moment of that happening.

And this look on that little tiny, just minutes old

baby's face is probably the.

Speaker 1: Most beautiful thing I know. Just the joy and the

pleasure in it. And that's where we're going. This is

not evil. This is about.

Speaker 2: The struggle of birth, which ends in a new level

of joy, if it works. And, you know, there's plenty

of births that don't work out. And that's what worries me.

Speaker 1: Because they're here for us to succeed and be born.

But we may not. And I hope we do. That's

what I'm here for.

Speaker 2: I want us to succeed. And I'm telling you, I'm

not alone. You're here for that reason, and all of

us who do this are here for that reason. We're

nature's little helpers trying to help the species be born

just like the grace and just like all of the

other beings that are here. We're all doing the same thing.

We're all on the same side.

Speaker 1: For the last, well, certainly over the last five to

10 years, but going back a couple of decades, those

of us that have been in the game for a while,

like you and myself, 2027, we got through the 2012 madness, right?

of what that was in the Mayan calendar. But leading

up to that and continuing now, 2027 has been repeated

over and over again in my life. And now we're here.

When I first started hearing about 2027, that was a

couple decades away. But here we are. We're here. What

are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2: Well, I've got my news editor, Zakiya Lathan, on a

2027 watch, she's constantly watching for signs that something may

be changing in that direction. That 2027 may really mean something.

Because I want our site, which she has revolutionized, by

the way, the news on my site is now incredibly

cool because of her. In any case, I want us

to be first with the most on that story because

I have a feeling that the general media is going

to fail to notice it for a long time.

Speaker 1: And the answer is maybe it's wrong.

Speaker 2: Maybe nothing will happen, but I have a feeling maybe

a lot will happen because it seems like an awful

lot of things are kind of coming together at the

same time and they all point toward 2027. And there's

also this other sort of outlier, the Chris Bledsoe thing

that's supposed to happen this October. And I'd.

Speaker 1: Wouldn't be surprised if.

Speaker 2: Nothing happens there, because I love Chris, and his experiences

are very real, but I'm not sure he's right on

that one. That doesn't invalidate him. Of course, a lot

of people who don't like him will immediately say, oh, it's.

Speaker 1: All BS, it's all nonsense. But it's not. His story stands.

It's a good story. But as to 2017, You look

at the climate.

Speaker 2: I just read a story that this El Nino that's

out there, this giant El Nino that's out there.

Speaker 1: Dude, we had two hurricanes this month off the coast

of L.A. How crazy. What the F? You almost said it.

You almost said it. I did. Yeah, we did. And

they're still out there. There's a massive one. The massive

one is Category 5. Yeah, yeah, Category 5. I mean,

I remember....

Speaker 2: I remember years and years of no hurricanes at all around,

anywhere near here. But the ocean waters are 73 degrees

off Los Angeles right now. A few degrees more, when

they get into the lower 80s, hurricanes are going to

come roaring right up this coast. And, I mean, my

building is ready for a hurricane.

Speaker 1: We'll survive. Category 5 will not be a problem. I've

watched a couple of your movies on this. I'm not

so sure that's the case. But Gavin Newsom, love him

or hate him, by the way, Gavin Newsom, great hair.

Good Lord, that guy's got great hair. He's gone gray, yeah. Yeah, yeah, great,

just beautiful. Anyway, he signed an emergency order. A couple

of days ago. I know, just now. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Because the ocean is pounding the beaches to death right now.

Speaker 1: And it's awesome.

Speaker 2: I was up down, where was I? In one of

the little towns and some friends said, come look at

these waves.

Speaker 1: And they were huge. There were 30-foot waves coming in. Unbelievable.

Speaker 2: And, you know, I've got a friend who's got a,

beach house he's trying to sell. I thought he might

have waited a couple of years too late.

Speaker 1: You know, where I live, one of the things, I

think about this all the time, if something crazy happened

and some tsunami, you know, hits the coast here, well, yeah,

all right, yes. But I've got I've got a huge

mountain range between me and the water. So at least

I've got that going. Yeah, thank you. I'm 70 feet.

You're right there. I'm 70 feet above sea. I'm right there.

And I love this area. I love living here. But

I have to admit that there could be a tsunami

bigger than that. I mean, it's not too likely here.

But I would not.

Speaker 2: Be comfortable living like in Seattle. It's a beautiful city.

But if the Juan de Fuca plate goes, you're going

to see a phenomenal tsunami up there, and that whole

place is going to be inundated.

Speaker 1: Most people, if you go back and look in history,

because for some reason, yeah, the hurricanes in Florida and

winter and blizzards and stuff, but for the most part,

we've been pretty lucky here in the States. That's what

people think. That's what people think. Look at the tsunamis

that have hit the West coast in the past. Oh man. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well, look at this, you know, this, this continent, there's

a book called, uh, Hamlet's mill, which is an analysis along.

It's a long, big book. And it's an analysis of, uh,

Is something going on, Jimmy?

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I've read this book. I'm going to look

it up right now. Oh, okay. Anyway, I'll keep talking then.

So there's no aliens walking in this studio? No, no aliens. Yes, yes,

I've read this book. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: Okay, so what it is is it goes through and

finds a message in the stones of the past that

the earth– is normally very quiescent, but every once in

a while, it really goes totally crazy. And there's another book,

a wonderful book called The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes, which

was written by a group of actually of NASA scientists

and dismissed by the geological community because they weren't geologists.

Speaker 1: And it's the typical of the sciences. They're so weak

in that.

Speaker 2: They, you know, they're brilliant analysts with bad personalities, bad

group personalities. They're The group, once you get scientists in

a group, they're just as bad as the Inquisition.

Speaker 1: They're just terrible.

Speaker 2: So anyway, but the book stands, and as time has passed,

the claims made in the book have stood the test

of time. It is about what happened right before the

Younger Dryas, when the Ice Age broke up. And this

is what happened to North America. A Something hit above

the Great Lakes where the Laurentide Glacier was. It caused

splashback of icebergs all the way into the Carolinas and

left millions of craters called the Carolina Dells to this day.

Speaker 1: That's right. And it splashed forward ice all the way

to New Mexico. I mean, this is dramatic. But at

the same time, it sheeted the entire area with high-speed,

ultra-hot particles of iron. And that's why all the mammoths

and the large animals just dropped dead. These guys found,

if they went into their bones, they found these tiny

fragments of iron in their bones because they had literally

been sheeted with fast-moving iron and all just dropped dead,

including most of the Clovis people, most of the Clovis Indians.

And so then the continent caught fire. The continent, from

the Appalachians to the Rockies, the whole thing burned. And

that fire lasted for years and years and years, and

it coated the planet with smoke so thick that eventually

it brought on something like a nuclear winter, and it

became extremely cold. That's what the Younger Dryas is. It

became extremely cold. And the fires went out, and the

ice melted and flowed down into a huge continental lake

that lasted a thousand years. And the remains of that

lake are called the Black Mat, and it consists of charcoal,

And the skeletons of diatoms of algae.

Speaker 2: And that was the whole center of this country. I mean,

can you imagine that? It's awesome what this planet can

actually do when.

Speaker 1: It wants to do it. You know what's amazing is

that life doesn't stop. You know what's amazing is that

life doesn't stop. No. You can't stop it. You cannot

stop it.

Speaker 2: This is why when the Spaniards came to the Americas,

it was so empty. There were not all that many Indians,

and there were not all that many animals, and very.

Speaker 1: Few large animals. There were no horses anywhere.

Speaker 2: The only large animals that survived were the bison, and

that was because they could run so fast and so far.

Speaker 1: They ran. They escaped.

Speaker 2: But all of the mammoths, the giant ground sloths, and

all that stuff all died out, everything.

Speaker 1: You know, I live in the desert, and I live

on the edge of the Mojave. And the Mojave, and

it takes other names, but basically goes to New Mexico. right?

It's a giant Death Valley. As far as you can drive,

you're driving through the desert. You drive to Sedona. It's

a beautiful drive. It's 10 hours from where I'm at.

It's a 10-hour drive through the flatlands of a desert, okay?

That's what it is. But it was all an ocean

at Yeah, exactly. Everything, all those little things that you're looking,

those are islands, right? At one point that was Hawaii

up there. And it's, we don't, it's a hard thing

to picture and understand the changes that this planet has

gone through. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it feels like

it's going to be forever. And, you know, when you're alive,

like right now, I feel, I don't feel like I'm,

I don't ever think about dying. I'm fine. But in fact,

it's not forever. Not for anyone. And not for the planet.

Speaker 2: The planet goes through these cycles. And we go through

the cycles with it. So what's next?

Speaker 1: What's next?

Speaker 2: What I'm looking for is to become a species that

bridges that. That has a presence in this universe that

enables us to live deep and long and rich in

ways that we probably now can't fully imagine. But I'll

bet you that my grandchildren and their children will know

this new way of being because I think those guys

back there are trying to make this happen.

Speaker 1: They're trying. They want us as companions. They don't want

to eat us. They don't want to do any of

that stuff.

Speaker 2: They want us as companions, or whoever created them does,

because they may be bio-robots, for all I know. But

something wants us. And, you know, people think, well, is

God real? Oh, gosh, we've got a couple minutes.

Speaker 1: I can do this. And the answer is yes. And

it's easy to show that. I'll tell you how. There

are constants. You know, the Planck constant, the closest two

things can be together without touching. There's all kinds of

physics constants, and we know how they all work.

Speaker 2: We know why the Planck constant is like that. There's

one constant, one 137th, or 134th, excuse.

Speaker 1: Me, that we have no idea where it came from.

It doesn't have a cause. It is, however, the constant

upon which all structure rests. This universe would not look

this way and probably would not be able to support

life if that constant wasn't that exact fraction. And so whodunit. Right.

Speaker 2: Somebody's there. And we might as well call that God.

Somebody wanted this to be and to happen today. and

made a decision that that constant would be there so

the universe would express itself in such a way that

living creatures would form.

Speaker 1: And here we are. It has to be that way. Yeah.

It has to be that way. So you don't have

to worry about God.

Speaker 2: What you do have to worry about is, are you

good with God?

Speaker 1: And how do we do that? How do we do that?

Speaker 2: I just published a little book. I had it years

ago called The Path. I republished it because I was

It's been out of print, and I saw it on

some eBay or somewhere, $ 350 a copy, and I thought,

that's not fair to people.

Speaker 1: And what it is, is the only thing in the

world like it, where it shows using the Tarot of Marseilles,

it's not to do prophecies or what we use that

for now. It shows a path to ascension, and just

how to be on that path. It's very clearly worked out.

Speaker 2: And it came to me all of a sudden on

a night, on an afternoon in the 1970s. I was

fooling around with a deck of tarot cards and looking

at them that someone had given me. And all of

a sudden the whole thing was in my head.

Speaker 1: And it is extraordinary and it is unique in the world.

Speaker 2: But it is just one of many different ways of

understanding the path to ascension.

Speaker 1: That to get off the wheel of life, And become

a cosmic being. And we're all going to do it.

We're going to do it. It's the good, the bad,

and the ugly. We're all on our way. If gravity,

and you take it out to 10 digits, right? And

that last digit, number 10, is off by one, nothing happens. Nothing. Nothing.

right nothing wow it's crazy to think about it's it's

but we live so who made that decision somebody we.

Speaker 2: We we made we live in somebody's idea right i'm

so okay with that simulation i know i'm so i

am too i'm so okay with that riz is so

cool he's he's he's gonna be on dreamland soon oh

and uh matthew brown is gonna be on dreamland uh

mike batista is gonna be on dreamland mike is He

had an amazing, you know, Mike is the psionics guy

who did psionics.

Speaker 1: With Jake Barber.

Speaker 2: And he had an amazing sighting in Woodstock, New York,

a short time ago. And then he sent me a

video right after the show we recorded. He was in

the Netherlands, so it was already dark after the recording

was over. An orb shows up. over his house, and

he videoed it.

Speaker 1: So, you know, it's such a cool thing.

Speaker 2: We're in this with whatever's here. And, you know, let's

do it. I think someone's asking us to dance. And

let's dance.

Speaker 1: Let's not be wallflowers. Let's go out and dance. Yeah, yeah.

I'm okay with a good tango. I had said to you,

I've talked about this a lot on the air, but

I said to you when we were having lunch the

other day, I told you about the ship that I

saw a couple of weeks ago out in front of

my house. Oh, yeah, that's right. I've got to tell you, man,

the odds of me randomly looking up at the sky

at the exact moment that this thing was there for

that five seconds, the odds of that are too extreme.

I'd rather... get into the comfort of something made me

look at that moment. I think that that's exactly what happened. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And when I, when I told you about it, you,

you weren't surprised, but you were happy for me. You smile.

Speaker 2: I was, I remember it was a fun thought.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, I thought it'd be even more fun if

he got taken up.

Speaker 1: Yeah. What was, what was really funny. Um, which goes back,

you made, you commented about this earlier in our conversation tonight.

What was really funny to me was my natural reaction.

What came out of my mouth, which was, and I

said out loud, well, look at you. Right. You know, and, and,

and I only had five seconds cause it went behind

the clouds and, and, Yeah. It was gone. But it

was extraordinary. And it was frigging cool, man. It was just, man. Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2: And then they took you up in there and they said, okay, Jimmy.

Speaker 1: Pull down your pants. Call Whitley when we're done. He

can verify all of this.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: Whitley, I love you, man. I love you. It's been

a great couple of weeks hanging out with you. Yeah, Jimmy,

it's been... It's been such a fun friendship. We have

a good time together. I love this show. I love

doing it, and I love being on it, and I

love watching it. More power to you, Jimmy Church. You're

the best, Whitley. Okay, so unknowncountry.com. The links for that

are below. Just really quick, I have to ask you,

I want you to remind everybody, how often is the

content going up in the podcast and everything else?

Speaker 2: Okay, my revolutionary, Zakiya, Brings content to the site daily

and sometimes more than once a day. And it is

on target. I mean, you can get ahead of the

news in this whole field on that website now. It's

very cool. And the podcast comes up once a week

on Fridays.

Speaker 1: It's on YouTube.

Speaker 2: Dreamland, Whitley Strieber, if they're not shadow banning me, which

they do sometimes.

Speaker 1: And in my opinion. or you can listen on the

website free with ads, or you can subscribe for a very.

Speaker 2: Measly $ 5 a month and enjoy the show in its

true glory with no ads.

Speaker 1: That's your choice. You're the best, my man. You're the best.

Before I say we need to hang out, we need

to not hang out this week. Whitley, enjoy the rest

of your night, my friend. And have a good 3 a.m. meditation.

And please tell everybody I said hello. Okay? I will

do it. Thank you, Jimmy. You're the best, Whitley. Thank

you so much, man. Another great conversation with Whitley Streber.

He is the absolute very best. Thank you so much, Whitley. Everybody,

Whitley's links are below, over on our website and throughout

social media. Get over to Unknown Country. Go check out

his YouTube. I've been doing it forever. He is the

absolute very best. I want to remind everybody before I

get out of here tomorrow night, William Henry is going

to join us to wrap up the week here on

Fade to Black. And tomorrow night, we're going to be

talking about Gobekli Tepe. All right. So with that, for now,

all I've got is Gobekli Tepe. Fade to Black is

produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Freed.

Special thanks to Bill, John, Dex, Jessica, Dennis, and Kevin.

Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Aldrich. Intro,

Space Boy. Fade to Black is produced by KJCR for

the Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted

in 2024 by Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc.

It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in

the known universe without written permission from Fade to Black

or the Game Changer Network. I'm your host, Jimmy Church.

Go Beckley Tappy.