FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Samantha Treasure

Tonight, researcher Samantha Treasure joins us to discuss OBEs... Out of Body Experiences!!!

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Speaker 1: The Smoke Radio for the Masses.

Speaker 2: Headline edition July 8, 1947.

Speaker 1: The Army Air Force has announced that a flying disc

has been found and is now in the possession of

the Army.

Speaker 3: The game is rigged. Change the game.

Speaker 1: Game changer.

Speaker 2: I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish

if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.

Speaker 4: This is Fade to Black with your host, Jimmy Church,

on the Game Changer Radio Network.

Speaker 5: All right. Good evening. How you doing? How you doing?

Fade to Black. Yeah, I got to get my crystals out.

Got to get my crystals out. I spaced on the crystals.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Speaker 5: All right. We can now start the show. Fade to Black.

Speaker 3: Thursday.

Speaker 5: October 15th, 2026. Wrapping up another great week here on

Faded Black. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Let's do this, man. Yeah,

what a great week. Monday night, Mona Lisa Coburn was here,

Alien Abductions. Tuesday night, Sam Baltrusis, Lizzie Borden, great show.

Last night, Karen Bell. Wow, the teachings of Sarai. Channeled

Sarai last night, and I got to interview Sarai. Very cool.

Very cool. Tonight, Samantha Treasure joins us. We're going to

be talking about out-of-body experiences, OBEs. And she's coming to

us all the way from an island in South Korea. Yeah.

You got to love technology. You just got to love it.

You got to love it. Okay. I'm going to give

the heads up to everybody here. So it's fire season

here in Southern California, and we are under severe winds

right now. It's like crazy. It's been going on for

pretty heavy for about 24 hours. But it's also been

kicking up over the last two weeks. And we had

a really big fire very close to me while I

was in Tombstone. It started when we were in Tombstone. Anyway,

Southern California Edison has let everybody know that they were

going to cut power today and tomorrow. They didn't cut

power here. So there's that. But there are fires just

literally right around me right now. I'm watching my app.

which is just firing off every 15 or 20 seconds.

There's so many fires and all of the updates that

are going on with those fires. So if anything, you know,

fingers are always crossed, and we'll see. I'm sure everything

is going to be fine, but you never know. Okay,

so I'm just giving you the heads up on that.

This is wrapping up another great week here on Fade

to Black, and just thank you to each and every

one of you. for joining us and taking the time

out of your day to come here and hang out

with us. And you've been doing it for 15 years.

How crazy is that? That's pretty nuts, isn't it? And

I have learned so much, just like we are about

to do tonight. You remember when, back in the day,

before I bring Samantha on, I go, Edumacation, this is

where you come. Is he going to get your degree?

And it's really true. I mean, I am able to

go to school for hours every single night with somebody

very bright, very smart. And I get to just sit

and have a conversation with them. And you just are

along for the ride and getting your learn on. We're

going to do that tonight because Samantha Treasure is here. And, yeah,

from an island in South Korea, very south, by the way. Yeah,

we're going to be talking about out-of-body experiences. We've got

to do both sides of this. There's the science side,

which is where things always lead us, right? And then

the consciousness side, the spiritual side. We've got the paranormal

and supernatural side and ghosts and entities and everything else.

that gets into OBEs. Now, her links are below, over

on our website, and throughout social media. And I would

like to welcome for the first time. Are you ready, Samantha?

Give me the nod. Are you good to go? You

good to go? Samantha Treasurer, she's right there. What's going on?

Speaker 1: I'm just, yeah, great. Nice to be here. Nice to

chat with you.

Speaker 5: South Korea. Can't... Do you have OBE friends on the island?

I mean, do people talk about this? Is this something

that is discussed?

Speaker 1: Not as much as I had hoped, for sure. Because

before I moved here, I lived in the UK for

13 years. And people are quite open there, as I'm

sure you know.

Speaker 5: Yeah, the whole island's haunted there. I mean, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: It is very, very haunted. There's a lot going on.

People are quite open to it. So then to come here,

people are open, but there's a lot of stigma around

it as well.

Speaker 5: Really? When you look at some of the best, and

I mean this, some of the best science fiction movies...

and ghost movies and all of that are from South Korea, right?

They're amazing films, but the culture, the culture is not. Wow.

I would have thought it would be the opposite.

Speaker 1: It is there, but it's been interesting navigating it. So

there's a big stigma around shamanism. Like there's a huge, there's,

thousands of shamans in this country and there's, it's in film,

it's in TV and everything, but just regular day-to-day people,

there's quite a stigma. So I actually, one of my

main goals in Korea, one of the reasons I originally

chose Korea was because of the shamanism here. But then

anytime I mentioned that, you know, I'm studying it or something,

they people will just be like be very very careful

because uh mainly because there's a lot of scam artists

they make a lot of money but they also have

to spend a lot of money in order to get

um to be initiated as a shaman so you know

but i mean it does it does cost a lot

of money to actually run the ritual you have to

hire drummers and you need a lot of things but

there are a are just in it for the money.

Speaker 5: So what about, what about, um, Oh, wait a minute.

You get the first time guest disclaimer before I get

yelled at. Uh, so let's get that out of the way,

which is this Samantha. It's just you and I sitting

on my couch, having a conversation as friends where the

conversation starts, it starts where it ends, it ends, but

we're going to end as friends. Okay. Now you have

to accept.

Speaker 1: Okay. I accept.

Speaker 5: Absolutely. We've been doing that for years. Years and years

and years. I don't even know how that started. But

now I have to do it. If I don't do it,

the chat room lights up. I start getting emails. Texts

come in from my producers. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Okay. Now, the other part of this is my neighbor

is from Seoul. Okay. Cool dude. Scientist, by the way,

he's a scientist and a very bright guy. And when

I first got the house, so he comes over and he's,

you know, he's feeling me out. I'm going to say

he's 60 and I get a little bit of background

on him, you know, Korean and so forth. So he says,

so what do you talk about on the radio? I said, well, uh,

Just threw that out there, you know. He's like, oh, okay.

I said, you ever seen one? He goes, no. Okay.

All right. And he... No questions. He wasn't interested. Isn't that...

You know what I mean? And I think that was

his Korean background.

Speaker 1: One thing that I found is... I do know people

who are OBEers here, but they're not interested in it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: They've had OBEs, but they're like, yeah, so? I was tired.

I was overtired.

Speaker 5: And what about the, is there a UFO community there?

Speaker 1: Yes, there is. So I... There used to be an

OBE sort of, there's this app called Kakao Chat here,

which is kind of like in between maybe Telegram and WhatsApp.

So you can have these big public groups or like

invite only groups like you do on Telegram or something.

And they had one for OBE. So I was a

member of that. And then it got deleted a couple

of years back, which was a shame. But through that,

somebody invited me to a UFO group. which I'm still

on and I dip in and out, but I would

ask them questions like, have you ever seen anything or like,

you know, it doesn't seem like there's any experiencers themselves

on it, but there's people who are enthusiastic about other

people's reports, but which is cool. But like a lot

of it, I couldn't really verify it or there was,

it was just, I heard this on a YouTube video or,

Something like that. And then when I tried digging into it,

I couldn't actually find anyone to talk to or to

ask questions to. But I do think that there is

a UFO community here. And I think it was the Rayallians?

Speaker 5: Oh, the Rayallians? Really?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was them or it

was a similar group that was in Korea, but they

got kicked out.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it was the Raelians. Yeah, you might

be right. The Raelians, that's a whole... That's a fascinating subject.

And there is... I've looked them up. There is a

Raelian group Um, and I think they're in Venice somewhere

in one of the beaches here, Venice, somewhere down there.

And they get together and they still have their meetings.

And I'm serious. I was going to go, I was

going to go, go donate and hang out in the

back and, and, and see what is going on with

all of that. That group got really big, uh, for

a minute and wow. Just a fascinating group. People talk

about our UFO community that is here. And I'm talking

about the ones that go to the conferences and the

speakers and ancient aliens or whatever. And we think that

we are all there is.

Speaker 3: There are really big.

Speaker 5: Alien groups out there. Big and huge. the railings are

an example of that, that they, yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, you know, I, so this was back in 2015.

I spent a year talking to alien contactees, um, mainly

based in London. And there was a couple, there was

one person who was from, uh, I shouldn't say the

name of the country, but in Asia, um, just because

she worked for the government and she believed the aliens

were looking through her eyes and basically like surveilling her government.

And there was another lady in Saudi Arabia and you know, but,

but it was interesting because I, I was really skeptical

about it. Like I believed that there must be aliens

out there, but I was kind of like, but are

they actually contacting people like individual people? Are they actually,

you know, messing with us with our, dna or like

are they doing what people say they're doing yes and

i was i was a little bit like hmm but

i'd also had experiences like whether obe's or kind of

you know um borderland cases that they call them you're

you wake up in the middle of the night you

don't really know what state of consciousness you're in but

like it feels like there's something weird going on um

or like alien or ufo dreams you know weird things

like that had happened to me and to my family,

but I'd never gotten into aliens, but I was curious

also talking to them, like what makes them believe so strongly,

but me not, which later I was like, oh, it's

because I'm scared of it. Like, I don't want to

be the ants in the backyard with some like suburban kid, the,

you know, magnifying glass on it or that, you know,

the idea of something so much more powerful than us,

we can't even, you know, contemplate, frighten me. But, what

meant to be like a one month little project turned

into a year. And one thing that was really interesting

that I think might happen to other UFO groups is

that when you start doing things like this, when you

start meeting and talking to people, weird things start to

happen like to the group or to people in the group.

And I think maybe what we started to think was like,

Whether it's aliens, whether it's the government, whether it's somebody else,

whether it's just our subconscious, there's something that doesn't want

us looking into this. And I've always been curious about

if other groups also have some sort of interference.

Speaker 5: No, for sure they do. And when I started doing this,

I was a sportscaster before this. I had no issues

when I did that. So I start doing this. And

I started to, because I've always seen things and I've

had experiences and, you know, throughout my life. And so

I was always trying to get the information and trying

to get to the truth. So I started doing this.

And the amount of people, especially the first few years,

That contacted me constantly. Some were government. Some weren't. The

amount of it was crazy. Trying to get me to

say things and to believe things. And I was shocked

by it. And it stopped. And the reason why it stopped,

which was about five or six years ago, I started

telling them to F off. I'm not, and I could tell,

I could tell what was happening. I w I would

be talking to three or four different people getting this

information and what was happening. Would I say it on

the air? Could they get me to say this on

the air? Could they get me to say this to

another person? Right. And start, you know what I mean?

And I don't know if I was being tested sometimes, right?

Can we trust them with this information? Are they deliberately

lying to me to see if I would repeat it

to somebody else? And that lie would then, that untruth

would affect somebody. It was nuts. And when they found

out that I never repeated anything, all I did was listen.

I never said stuff on the air. And I started

to call bullshit, right? And as I did that, Sam,

this is really, they knew that I couldn't be bought.

You know what I mean? But if they did that

with me, they do that with everybody, you know? And

it's a really, really funny thing. And just like you

just said, you have to step back and ask yourself why.

What's the reason for it?

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 5: What's the reason?

Speaker 1: I had one person who was also from the same

powerful Asian country that will remain unnamed as the women.

And he was a member of the Knights Templar. He

showed me photos of their rituals and everything, all their

garb and their goblets and whatever. And very, very wealthy person,

business owner. And he, I don't know how, well, I

guess he found out about the group. And he was

just emailing me. He asked to meet up. So I

met up with him and I just, he was so

like thirsty. He was like, I want to be your

partner in this. I want to go and meet all

of these contactees with you. And there was something about

the desperation there that made me think like, whoa, what

is your agenda? Why? And so I just, you know,

didn't reply to his emails after that. But he was

trying for many, many months. And the other, like the

weirdest thing that happened, though, was something that's hard to explain.

So after months and months, at first it was kind

of a public group, so just a group of people.

But I could tell that the actual experiencers didn't feel

safe enough to talk about their experiences. Because it's something,

you know, they might not have told anyone before. And

they're telling a room full of strangers. So I ended

up clothing the group, opening it up again with an experiencer.

And we interviewed one person at a time. So we

spoke to about one, on average, one person a week

for that year. These people didn't know each other. They

didn't want to meet other experiencers. They wanted to just

talk in a quiet, cozy space with people who will

listen and not judge and get their story out there.

And then that was it. And it felt like I've

interviewed people about OBEs and other things. This felt like different.

It felt very sacred. I didn't even take notes. Like

sometimes I would write something after. I probably had maybe

two pages of notes over the year because I just

felt like there's something so special about their experiences. They're

so important to them. And there's something about this that

I don't feel like I should be digging in and

writing notes. And, you know, like it just didn't, it

felt wrong. But the weird thing that happened was towards

the end of this year, suddenly one by one, these

people who didn't know each other would cancel. And they

would say, I've suddenly, I was ready to go out

and suddenly I got a migraine or suddenly I got

really tired. And, and even once, like I met that,

the woman who worked for her government and the, my partner,

she had it that week. She couldn't come. And I

met this lady and after about two minutes, she got

like watery eyes and she goes, I need to go.

I just feel like I'm not meant to be talking

about this. So I was like, okay, that's weird. And

then eventually it happened like without fail every single week,

maybe four weeks, five weeks. And then it happened to me.

I was going to meet just my partner in this.

And I was, it was middle of the day. I

was totally fine. And then I get home to get

ready to go out again. And suddenly, like, just like this,

it was like, if you imagine there's bathtub water, and

you pull the drain, and it all just drains out quickly.

That's what it felt like with my energy. Kind of

like narcolepsy, how people, you know, define narcolepsy. And I

just had enough energy just to text her and say,

you know, I'm sorry, like, I it's two or three

in the afternoon and I just can't go out. I

can't move my body. It's bizarre.

Speaker 5: Was that the end of it for you too?

Speaker 1: That was the end of it. And I thought, okay,

I don't know what this is. I didn't have any

belief about what it was. I was just like, I

have to accept that I don't understand what this is.

And my partner now, so he like, you know, all

Korean men, they have to go to military service for

two years. And he's still really like every day he

looks at military news. He's really into military history and stuff.

And I told him this story and, and he believes

in aliens. He's not interested in them, but he's like, yeah,

of course they're there. And he goes, well, it sounds

like military technology being used against you guys. Like maybe

somebody was watching you and watching who you're meeting and,

They don't want people talking about it. Or maybe they

don't want people talking about it or digging into it

without a certain narrative. Like you were saying, if you

have a certain narrative that they like you to talk

about publicly, then maybe that's okay and they're going to

let you be. So something like Havana syndrome, if they

have a device that can give you a migraine or

make you tired or something. So I didn't really look into...

aliens or UFOs much since then. I've been kind of

scared to like, what am I going to get myself into?

Speaker 5: Yeah. It's so funny. I was talking about the power

being shut down and right at the street, one of

my neighbors just texted me, they cut the power here.

Do you still have power? And I said, yes. And

so I'm just giving the heads up to everybody. I'm

telling you, it's pretty crazy around here right now. So far,

so good.

Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.

Speaker 5: What is– help me understand OBE and what it is.

I think– I want all the definitions because we're going

to have something from our community. We're going to, I'm sure,

have a scientific explanation and so forth. So what's an

OBE from your standpoint?

Speaker 1: It is an experience where your perception– is like centered

in another place other than your physical body so like

right now all of our senses our hearing our sight

gravity everything is based in it's like coupled to the

physical body right and when you dream it that all

kind of gets shut down like you don't hear or

see things in your environment physical environment anymore and now

you switch to a different body the dream body or

you have no body And all of your senses that

you're picking up is from this dream environment. So I

think of dreams as a type of OBE. But when

you're looking at OBEs, it can happen from waking, from dreams,

especially lucid dreams, from sleep paralysis, fainting, unconsciousness, any state

of consciousness it can happen from. Because it's basically just

switching from one body schema, which is one kind of

like a program of what body you're in, whether it's

a physical body or dream body and how you, if

you're in one of them, that means you can move

around in that environment. You can survive in that environment.

You can pick something up, you know, how, how quickly

and where to reach to catch a baseball. That's your,

that's because of your body schema, which you develop from

when you're a baby, you know, so babies, like they're

very clumsy, right? You eventually you, develop this body schema

which is like your software of how you can operate

your physical body in the physical environment.

Speaker 5: And then the scientific oh go ahead.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah that that is the the scientific view of

it is is that um what's happening when when the

obe happens it means that you know we're always getting

this sensory information from all of our senses from our

inner ear with gravity, where our body is so we

don't fall over. All of these things are combining to

present us an image of the body, the environment, everything.

And a lot of it is filled in by our

memory and our expectation. So if we were to, for example,

to see the world, not with all of the brain software,

but just our physical eyes, it would be very grainy

and dark. It would be very poorly rendered, but thanks

to our brain and all of the wiring in there,

we see things in high definition, you know, unless you

have eye issues. But so, so basically it's cobbling everything

together to present us with this physical reality. But if

there's any interruption to that signal, then we, there's like

a threshold that you can cross where you, your brain

switches over into a backup model based on memory. So

the thinking that the kind of psychology, psychologists thinking of

why that might be evolutionarily thinking is that, um, think

for example of, I am out in the Savannah and

there's a lion chasing me. I don't have a very

good chance of surviving that. But my best chance of

survival would be if I could, if my perception could

go somewhere else. So it's not actually saying that my

soul is actually leaving my body. That's the spiritual interpretation

of it. But our subconscious picks up all of these

things that our conscious mind isn't about the environment, right?

So we're going to switch into a backup model. We're

going to probably see from a bird's eye view because

that's going to give us a bigger perspective of where

we are. And we're also usually emotionally detached in the

OBE state. So we're very calm. We're very perceptive. And

that is a really good survival tool to have. Because

now we can be like, okay, I need to climb

that tree.

Speaker 5: Escape route. Yeah, survive.

Speaker 1: That branch is broken, or I need to go, you know,

that kind of thing. Or if we're climbing a cliff,

same thing. It's like, ah, that rock looks the most stable.

We need to climb up onto that, that sort of thing.

So anytime that there is a risk to the physical body,

and I think... i believe that is it's a pretty

solid theory because there's spontaneous or forced obe's where it

just happens you know because you're stressed or even sometimes

you're just super relaxed and so that so all of

the senses that are coming in kind of get muted.

Like when you're meditating, you kind of go within. So

then it's also easier to switch into a backup. Those

kind of OBEs have a different quality to them than

the ones where you try to have an OBE. Because

you're using your visualization, you're using your imagination and like

you're focusing. And so the natural OBEs, when they happen,

they tend to be more exact replicas of the environment.

And that would make sense because in those conditions, you

do need an exact replica to have an exit, to

find an exit route or something like that. And whereas

if you're trying to have an OBE, a lot of

times it becomes more dreamlike. Like there's some exceptions, but

generally it's a little bit more dreamlike. And I think

it's because you're using your more imaginative side of the

brain when you're trying to have OBEs.

Speaker 5: Is, is astral projection and that side of things, is

that another version of OBE or are they the same

thing just by another name?

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's astral projection is an intentional OBE. So that's

what originally that's what people called it like back in

the 1800s or whatever, astral projection, because it's an intentional OBE,

it had a lot of mystical and spiritual connotations and,

but there were some parapsychologists who wanted to study it

sort of kind of scientifically, or especially they wanted to

study it alongside apparition reports, like ghosts and things like that,

or doppelganger reports. And they wanted to look at it

without bias. They really just wanted to know what is

this that's happening to people. And so in the 40s,

There was a parapsychologist, I think he was a mathematician

as well, called G.N.M. Tyrell, and he coined the term

out-of-body experience in his book. He had a book called Apparitions.

Speaker 5: So what about, and we're going to get back to

OBEs in just a second, is remote viewing another form

of an OBE?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a really, really good question. And it's

something that I really want to dig into more.

Speaker 5: I mean, I ask myself all the time, Sam, what's

the difference, right?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really important question. That's where all the

good stuff is. So I tried remote viewing at the

College of Psychic Studies. I did a remote viewing course

and almost everyone there hadn't had any experience they didn't

consider themselves psychic but they had this protocol and they're

and almost every single person uh was able to get

like to describe the photograph and the envelope you know

everyone everyone got it um an interesting thing that I

learned about remote viewing and I still need to dig

into this so I might be wrong but This is

what I was told by from Russian and Korean sources

is that originally, you know, when there was the Cold

War and they were trying to figure out, hey, Russia's

doing something spooky with psychics and stuff. What are they doing?

They're trying to figure it out. And so from what

I've heard was that the Soviets, they were learning from

the shamans, especially in Siberia. They were learning how to

do what they do. Because there's a lot of old

reports of shamans trying to find a missing person.

Speaker 5: Where are they going?

Speaker 1: Because they're nomadic. Or, you know, things like that. And

they would do it with out-of-body experiences. Like, if you

look at the descriptions, it sounds like an out-of-body experience.

It doesn't necessarily sound like remote viewing in the description. But...

So they were using... out of body experiences, the Soviets

is what I've been told and they still are using it.

So I can tell you later, I did go to

Siberia two years ago and I was actually interviewed by

the KGB and they're very interested in this kind of thing.

Speaker 5: What happened? Tell me about it.

Speaker 1: Okay. So I wanted to know more. I was like

very innocently like I'm writing a book on OBEs and, hey,

like in anthropology, all signs kind of point to Siberian shamans, right?

But from everything that I could read, I had a

lot of questions like, is it really an OBE? Like,

do they get the, a lot of people get vibrations

and they get all these different symptoms as well before

it happens. Do they get that? And I had all

these questions because the people that had interviewed them before,

they weren't experiencers, right? Or they didn't, They were interested

in shamanism, but not OBE specifically. So I had all

these questions.

Speaker 5: Do you speak Russian?

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 5: So how do you hook up with the KGB? And

were they cool? Did you have to have a shot

of vodka? Did you have to have a shot of

vodka when you sat down with them?

Speaker 1: No, I wish, but no, I was like, I was.

Speaker 5: They weren't real KGB. They weren't real KGB. There was

no vodka involved.

Speaker 1: Maybe they were fake.

Speaker 5: What happened?

Speaker 1: So I, um, I, I'd been to Russia a few

times before, you know, not anything to do with OBE. Well,

you know, I was kind of interested in the research

and in Moscow and stuff like that, but I wanted

to learn Russian, but I kind of gave up because.

Speaker 5: It's too hard. It's a hard language.

Speaker 1: It's very hard. A few years ago, I was doing

language exchange with someone here in Busan. And then I

met someone at her birthday party who's now my best friend.

And she lived on the same island. And her mom

is a shaman. She's from Siberia. Her mom is a shaman.

And so we became best friends and she invited me

to come with her to Siberia.

Speaker 5: So cool.

Speaker 1: To the Tuva state. So, and she speaks Russian and Tuvan.

So she was really kindly offered to come with me and,

and translate for me and, you know, find these shamans too,

because it's not easy just for someone like me, it

wouldn't be easy, like to go and find them. Right.

Also in Siberia, there's a lot of scam artists too.

Speaker 5: So, Did you go to a regional KGB building?

Speaker 1: No, but I thought that it was. I had no

idea what was happening. So what happened was, so usually

my friends, one of her friends or somebody would be

taking us to see a shaman one day. And one

day she had an old family friend who was a

tour guide. He would go all over that state and

he would take people from all over the world as well.

And so he knew two really good shamans and he,

so we hired him that day to take us to

see these shamans. So I went, did one interview in

the morning and we were going to go get lunch

before the second interview while we were, we were out

in the countryside while we were driving. My friend gets

a phone call and then she covers the phone. She says,

do you have your passport with you?

Speaker 5: Oh shit.

Speaker 1: And then she gets off the phone and, and she goes, Oh, um,

somebody wants to interview us. And I, so she used

to be a journalist before she came to Korea and

she did some kind of radio interview or something there.

So I thought it's something like that, right? Like they're

going to interview us about the trip. And, uh, she's like, uh, no,

by the secret service. And I was like, excuse me.

And I was freaking out and my palms were sweaty

and she goes, Oh no. Like, you know, I'm, I'm

surprised they took so long because we'd been in the country.

We'd been in the country already like a week. We

were there all together a month. And she goes, yeah, like,

of course they're going to interview you. She goes, you

don't have to worry. They just need to find out

if you're a spy or not. That's all they want

to know. And I'm like, that doesn't make me feel

any better. Like how are they going to interrogate me?

You know? And she goes, okay, we have to immediately

go back to the apartment, pick up your passports. And

meet them in this restaurant. So I'm thinking, am I

going to have lunch with the KGB?

Speaker 5: Like, what.

Speaker 3: Is happening?

Speaker 5: Oh, man.

Speaker 1: I was freaking out, Jimmy. I was freaking out.

Speaker 5: I would have freaked out. I would have lost. Well, here's,

but here's the thing. And it's the same. It doesn't

matter if you're in South Korea. I was going to

say North Korea, but that doesn't count. Singapore, South Korea,

it could be Britain. Anytime you're outside of your country

and you're in another country, you're it's a it's called

foreign for a reason it's out of your right and

you it's their laws it's their world it's their thing

and that's it you you know you can go to

any country and if they don't want you to leave

um You don't. Yeah. That's it. It's a crazy feeling.

So no, it's good to be nervous and keep your

guard up because now KGB in Siberia, that's at a

whole nother level of crazy town. Right.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so we're waiting at the restaurant and they're

late and we're getting even more nervous. And then they

finally show up these two guys in kind of business clothes.

And the first thing they said, so my friends just

translating everything and very, very polite, you know, we're terribly

sorry to interrupt your trip and everything. Please understand that

our country is going through a lot of turmoil at

the moment. We just have to be careful who's coming in.

And I'm like, okay, okay. And then they go, please

come with us. And I'm thinking, right. The driver, he

knows where we are. Where are they going to take

us in a car? Where are we going? And so

they take us to another building, like just a little

bit down the street. And I thought this is the

KGB headquarters in Siberia or something. I didn't know where

it was. And I thought maybe that's why they asked

us to meet in that restaurant. I don't know. My

mind was just going around. And so, but, but they

just sit us in this lobby and there's this big

mural on the wall of like some, I don't know,

like mountain and there's a tree and, there's a huge

tree in the lobby that's kind of curled up like this.

And there's a woman in a very colorful muumuu, like

an older lady in a muumuu just walking around on

the phone. And I'm like, is this the KGB headquarters?

I don't know where I am. And later my friend

told me it's the lobby of a hotel. So, but

they took us there to interview us. And they said

to my friends like, oh, we, oh, I follow you

on Instagram.

Speaker 5: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And they said, oh, we tried to follow Samantha's

Instagram too, but it was set to private. And it's

funny because a few days earlier, I just had a

feeling to set it to private. So I did. And

they're asking questions. They're very, very interested in why I

moved to South Korea, first of all, because they're very

close to North Korea and South Korea. Actually, they have

a lot of connections with South Korea. So my friend said, oh,

she went there to research shamans. And they asked me

about my husband, too. They said, what's his name? What's

his occupation? What's his birthday? And I panicked and I

told them the truth because I also thought they could

easily find out.

Speaker 5: They know everything about you. They want to know if

you're going to lie. Yeah. They know everything. When you travel,

you travel internationally. I travel internationally all year long. And

I watch what's going on. And now it's all electronic.

Everything is electronic today. It doesn't matter what country. So

you go in, they scan your passport. They already, from

the flights before and customs before, your whole itinerary, the airline,

everything is laid out. And all of your social media

is there. Everything is right in front of them on

the screen. And they're looking at you. It's not like

the old days.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: No, they know everything. You can't try to get in

and out of Australia. They read all of your social media.

They want to know what your political and your religious things.

They want to know all of that before you get

into the country. Yeah, it's crazy. So for them to.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1: So they were just trying.

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 1: They were just testing, I guess. And then so they,

you know, they asked lots of questions and stuff. And

then it probably lasted maybe 40, 45 minutes. And then

they're letting us go. And right before they're right as

you're leaving, they're letting us out. The guy says, I'm

surprised your driver didn't tell you about this one certain shaman.

who is in the town that the driver is from.

He knows it very well. And then we leave and

we're walking down the street and we both turn to

each other. Like, wait a minute. How did he know

like who our driver is and where he's from and

all of this. But of course, like you said, like

they know everything. They were just trying to let us

know in a kind of polite way. We're watching you.

We know exactly who you're with. Yeah. So that was

that experience. And then the, the weird thing was, um,

when I got back to Korea, it was probably within

a couple of weeks or something. My husband comes home

and he goes, there was some Russian headhunters at work

and I might go work in Vladivostok for six months.

And I was like, and you've worked in the shipyards

for what, over 10 years and nothing like that has

happened before. And they're coming and trying to headhunt you.

Like that really freaked me out. But, That was two

years ago. Nothing has happened since, thankfully.

Speaker 5: Knock on wood. Now you've got connections in Siberia. I

was coming through. We're going to move on. I was

coming through customs. I'm back in the United States. And

this is at LAX. And I've been flying for like

24 hours or 20 hours. I'm tired. Going through customs.

And the customs agent says... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I said, yes. And he said, uh, you know, this

is your second time to this country this year. I said, yep.

And he just smiles. He goes, welcome back, man. Love

your work. Just like that. I was like, man. All right.

I was like, what did that, but that's only because

everything is in front of them. They know everything that's

coming through. Um, When you were talking about OBEs earlier,

I'm looking at the clock and I want to get

this in before the break. The natural OBE sound feels

to me like DMT. Okay. Am I going to get

you in trouble in South Korea? Can we talk about

this stuff?

Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think I'm good.

Speaker 5: You're good. Okay. So with DMT, That is a definite

out-of-body experience because your body is here and you're going

to another dimension and experiencing this. But it's also produced

naturally in your body, right, in your pineal gland. And

so I've often thought that the DMT that is in

our bodies could be activated. I don't know, but maybe

adrenaline or excitement or fear. And then, you know, something

triggers that and you have some type of experience, your

life flashes before your eyes, whatever it may be. But

it's very similar to the OBE experience. But what you

do run into are other beings. Yeah. Does that happen

with OBEs?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of my passions about OBEs. Really? Because

I did my bachelor's dissertation on OBE entities. And, you know,

all the teachers were like, we don't usually allow that

kind of thing. But I was really adamant, like, that's

what I do my dissertation on. And, you know, it

was very small. It was like five people. Four of

them had had lucid dreams. So we were able to compare, like,

lucid dreams and OBE figures. And it was interesting because

they– everyone was like, Oh, they're totally different from dream characters.

They feel, you know, with some exceptions, dream characters feel

like they're part of you. It's like a story in

a dream. You're, you're playing out a story and in

the OBE, it feels like waking life. It feels that

real when you're interfacing with another being, it feels like

how it feels to talk to someone when you're awake.

Speaker 5: Explain, explain.

Speaker 1: Um, it's a kind of like a social sense, I guess,

that where we feel a boundary between yourself and somebody else,

like when you're awake and you're talking to another person,

you know, that's another person, right? Like there's, there's differences

in different cultures because some people feel like you're all

one group or, you know, you can have different kinds

of connections and feel like you're connected to different levels.

But you can still generally like, you know, that is

another person. They have their own other world and everything,

you know, another sentient being. And that's how OBE figures feel.

I would say like more than nine times, like maybe

like 96% of the time, it feels like it's another person,

another being.

Speaker 5: Do you see them?

Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see them.

Speaker 5: Okay, and what do they look like? Now, I have

done DMT, not a whole lot, but.

Let's just go with a round number and say five times.

I've done it five times. So I have enough experience.

My guide, and she's a she, I've only had one guide.

She doesn't have a name, but I've never looked at her.

She's behind me talking, but I've never, so I don't know.

People ask, so what's your look like, man? Well, that's

a great question. I don't know. I've never, I've never even,

I've never wanted to look at her either.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: So you don't need to, right? I, it hasn't even

entered my mind. Trust me when you, when you're doing the,

when you go to the DMT hyperspace world, you, you're,

you're you're occupied you're not thinking about.

Speaker 1: Right you're not thinking about like.

Speaker 5: Oh no no no you are looking forward but um

yeah so what's that you asked what did they look

like yeah a lot of.

Speaker 1: Regular people and people also see shadow figures like during

sleep paralysis as well um people sometimes see like aliens

uh They see all sorts of things. So I'm actually

doing a study now with the University of Virginia and

Monash University and Greenwich University on OBE entities. So I

need to send it to my old teachers who poo-pooed

the idea. Like, hey, we're doing it properly now. So

we've got about 200 respondents and we're doing the analysis

stage now. And I think, you know, what's really interesting

is 39% of the respondents said that they had seen

an alien-like being during their OBEs. Wow. Which was so crazy.

I wasn't expecting that because when I talked to OBEers,

especially like OBE forums online or astral projection forums and stuff,

it's very, there's this kind of like new age narrative

of spirit guides and anything that's kind of like deceased

relatives are okay, but like ghosts, shadow figures, aliens, a

lot of that's filtered out. by admins and, or, you know,

like don't really want to talk about it unless you

go to kind of a more paranormal type forum.

Speaker 5: Oh, admins in a forum filled. Man, that's not, how

can you have an open conversation? How can you have

an open conversation about something really sensitive and personal and

then somebody is going to filter it? That's not right.

That's not right.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's interesting. And another really weird thing, sometimes

people see cartoon characters. And, you know, one person said

he saw Beavis and Butthead and he was like, you know,

I talked to other people like that research these kind

of things. And they say, if we'd heard this type

of report, we wouldn't even look at it. We would

think it's a prank or we would think that they

have mental illness or it's not an OBE. It has

to be a dream. But no, it's like these things

are actually happening quite a lot. And then what does

that tell us about what the OBE is or what

reality is? And maybe it's somewhat being shaped by our

minds and our environment.

Speaker 5: Your foundation, how you were raised, education, all of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Everything's on screen now.

Speaker 5: Right.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 5: Right. We're going to get back to that. But here is,

and we're going to take a break in a minute,

but here's the other crazy part. With all of your

analysis and what you have learned about OBEs, and we're

going to continue this conversation, but what you have learned,

it sounds absolutely identical to the Bible.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5: Right? Right? Really? Well, today we can add the scientific method.

We can look at it, you know, chemistry and biology

and brain research. And we can do all of these

things today. But 2,000, 3,000 years ago where they didn't

have access to that, but that doesn't mean they weren't

having out-of-body experiences. They were. Yeah. But the only way

to explain that to the village– Is that it's God

or it's angels or it was a religious experience or

it was this or it was that. That's the only

way others would understand what you were saying. So OBEs

have been around since the dawn of man.

Speaker 1: Yeah, forever. Yeah. I also think probably other species also

experience them.

Speaker 5: Dogs do. 100%.

Speaker 1: Yeah, people see their pets also. They see their pets.

And sometimes if they have multiple pets, they'll only see

one of them or something. It's like, oh, that pet

is a really good astral projector, maybe.

Speaker 5: Now, I want to go back to, you made a

very important point earlier. And I want to nail this down.

So OBE is natural. Astral projection is intentional.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 5: So that's the that's the separation of the two. You're

still out of body, but one you're causing and one

just happens.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. But even, you know, when you start to

have when you even if you try to have OBEs,

it's not like you it's going to happen exactly when

you're trying, like while you're meditating or something. a lot

of times it doesn't happen like that. It'll happen, you know,

a week after or a day after you've given up or, and,

and also a lot of one thing that, um, is

really important to know if you want to have an

OBE is that it's kind of a commitment. Like you're

going to need to, your lifestyle is going to need

to maybe change a little bit, your meditation practice or something.

You're going to need something to, um, bolster the experience

to make it easy for you to go out but

also you're not going to really be able to control

when it happens, which is why I ended up stopping it. Um,

at one point it was, it was harder to get

back into after again too, but it happened to me

just in the middle of the day when I sat

on a sofa, like as soon as my back touched

the sofa, I started to get these like vibrations and

I started to feel like I was going out and

I thought, Oh, it's kind of like the snowball effect.

You know, you're programming your brain in a certain way

to be able to switch out of this body schema.

And is that really a good thing? No.

Speaker 5: Not if you can't control it.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: So when something like that happens, let's go with the

couch thing. All right. So it's happening. Can you... then

it's naturally happening. But can you choose your destination? Are

you in control of that part of it?

Speaker 1: Most people, including myself, will say no. It's really difficult

to control where you go. I have heard that if you,

and I've tried this once or twice, but if you

try to tap into certain emotions, like emotions that you

connect with a certain place or person, then you it's

easier to go there. Some people also say, they talk

about the guardian of the threshold that they might run into,

even sometimes as soon as they leave their body, some

being that's like, no, you're not allowed, go back in

your body, or you are trying to get out the

door or out of the building and somebody or something

is stopping you. So people wonder, is that It's like

with DMT too. That happens with DMT, right?

Speaker 5: It does. A hundred percent. It's the same thing.

Speaker 1: What are you doing here? Yep. Yeah. And so people wonder,

is that my subconscious or is it like an actual

being that wants to keep me in my body?

Speaker 5: The crazy part, I've got 60 seconds. There's a million

crazy parts about DMT, but.

Speaker 3: It's real.

Speaker 5: Okay. Okay. This isn't a hallucination. It's not any of that.

You are in another reality that is the same as

this reality. You're just visiting for a minute and it's crazy.

And anybody, I had a very, very famous person in

Hollywood outside of our community. I can't, I, I, Oh God,

I'm going to get in trouble. I gotta, I gotta

keep this clean. But about maybe 10 years ago, he

or she calls me up. I said, what's going on?

I did DMT last night. Okay. I had no experience

with it at that time. Heard about it. I said, okay.

Speaker 3: It's real.

Speaker 5: I go, what's going on? Are you okay?

Speaker 1: Man.

Speaker 5: I can. believe the experience. I went to another world. Well, yeah,

I know. It's like LSD. It's like, no, and he

stopped me. And that conversation, Sam, never got away from me.

This was a person that I respect, that the world knows,

very intelligent, award-winning, who had a very profound, life-changing experience,

that there's another reality out there. Yeah, I talked to

him for about an hour on the phone. You know what?

He scared me. Yeah. It was like, man, I'm not

messing with that. But now I understand. It's real. It's

not like, and I love dreaming. I have a great

relationship with my bed and my pillow and sleep. I

love it. I love dreaming. That's not DMT.

Speaker 2: No.

Speaker 1: Right. Exactly.

Speaker 5: It's real. It's real. All right. Let's take our break.

Samantha Treasure is our guest live from South Korea. Tonight

we're talking about OBEs, out-of-body experiences. We've got a lot

more to talk about. Samantha, stay right there. I'm your host,

Jimmy Church. We'll be right back after this short break.

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Speaker 5: All right. Welcome back. Fade to black. I am your host,

Jimmy Church. Tonight, Samantha Treasurer joins us from South Korea live.

You got to love technology. Quick update on the fires. Yeah,

half of Palmdale, the power's out. I just talked to

Romeo and Amy and I said, come on, come on down.

We'll watch a movie tonight. We'll go out to dinner

or something. He goes, we got generators running. We're fine.

I said, okay. All right. Those are the updates. Fires

are still burning. Power is still on here. There you go.

All right. Samantha, the OBE natural side of things, we

were talking about the control experience, and you said no

to that. How do I say this? When I was

very young, I would have a lot of dreams about flying,

but then they suddenly stopped. I don't know why. It

was weird, and I would have them all the time,

and they were a lot of fun. But they were

also accurate with friends and family and stuff like that.

No cartoons, no Disney. Is that an out-of-body experience?

Speaker 1: It could be. So I think that when a lot

of times when experiencers, when you have a lot of

these experiences, whether it's like lucid dreaming, out of body experiences,

you start to notice certain differences with them. So the

OBE is often very stable, even in the intentional ones,

which can have like some elements of something fantastical or whatever. But,

The main difference really is that the dreams feel like

it's from your own mind, whereas the OBE, it feels

almost like it's a collective consciousness.

Speaker 5: Something else is in control.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like the cloud. You're going into the internet

with all these other internet users, whereas the dream or

the lucid dream is just like you're not connected to

the internet and you're just browsing around on your laptop

or something.

Speaker 5: In your research, in your research, I feel like I

just interrupted you. I apologize for that. In your research,

have you encountered, or maybe you, two people that have

run into each other in their OBEs?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. um that's one of the reasons

why people will people who experience both i mean you

can have telepathic dreams right you can have dreams where

you meet someone like a deceased loved one or something

but it seems to be more common in obe's it

seems to be more of um like a fundamental part

of what the obe is so i i have experienced

it myself which I just couldn't explain. The scientific explanation

of obese, I think, is legit. It makes a lot

of sense. But the scientific explanation says that that backup

reality that we switch into is coming from our memory

or our expectations and our imagination to an extent. But

what I think is that we're not just tapping into

our own brains. And people are going to think I'm

woo-woo for saying that. But if you speak to parapsychologists

at Edinburgh University or whatever, they say we might not

have a lot of evidence for ESP or psychopathology. or whatever,

but we have tons of evidence for telepathy. Like something

is going on there. So I think that what's happening

with the OBE is that some of it could be

from cobbled together from your mind, but other minds too.

Speaker 5: That's not woo. That's not woo. That's normal.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. But I mean, if you

talk to like the psychologists who study obese, they won't,

you know, generally, they don't want to talk about the

telepathy side of things. But I'm 100% sure something like

that is going on. But to give you an example, okay.

I don't have any memory of this one particular case.

but I was at this OBE retreat for a week

and we were all trying to like go out, you know,

we had a password. My password was snowdrop, which is

used in like lucid dreaming and OBE supplements. So I

thought snowdrop. And then I thought, no, I'm going to

change it to orange because there's some like non-native English speakers.

Snowdrop is too difficult. And so one night, instead of

sleeping up in my room, I slept with a bunch

of other people in our sleeping bags in this big room.

And I was sleeping next to my friend, Alison. And

up in her room, there was this Swedish girl who

was a fruitarian who looked 15, but she was like

25 or something really, really avid astral projector. She said

that she came down out of body and she saw

us sitting up chatting in the out of body state

and And that we all, all three of us exchanged passwords.

So Alison saw a cartoon bumblebee next to her head.

And she said in the morning when we exchanged information,

my password was bumblebee, she said. But Alison remembered this experience,

remembered this meeting. And she saw the, she didn't get

the word bumblebee. She saw it as like an image of,

And that Swedish lady, she said that I told her

my password and she said it was like snow drew

or something. And I thought that's unbelievable. That's crazy. Like how,

how could she know that? And then she got Alison's

password too. She said it was, um, navel. And Alison

said her password was abdominals. So it seems like there

is some kind of communication there. Like it's a similar

kind of meaning, right? The navel and abdominals.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: But it's not literal. It's not like communicating like we

are right now with words. It's almost like there's some

telepathic thing going on and our brain then interprets that

as an image or the meaning of the word. It's

like a synonym or something.

Speaker 5: None of this is strange to me. None of it.

None of it. If you look at the most mundane

situation that could happen in your day, if you pay

attention to it, it's actually remarkable. But most people don't.

I think it's all connected. And I'll give you an example.

This just happened to me. And I think it's just nuts.

It was one of those things. This is three days ago.

All right.

Speaker 1: Oh, man.

Speaker 5: I'm watching something on TV. And in the background, in

the music, is this song. And it was a song

from the 80s, They Don't Know. And I remembered it.

I was tapping my toes like the 60s sounding song

from the 80s. It was on MTV. I was like, man,

who sang that? That's right. I remember that song. That

song was, they don't know about us. They just know

about love. And I was like, yeah, man, that was

a great song. Wow. Okay. The Next Night. So that

song was like stuck in my head. The Next Night.

I'm watching Ted Lasso. Have you seen that show?

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Ted Lasso.

Speaker 5: So I'm watching Ted Lasso, the end of the season.

This just happened. This was three nights ago. I'm watching

the season finale. And there's this character that comes in

and tries to take over the soccer team. And I

kept looking at her and I was going, man. All right.

So the credits roll. The credits roll. It's Tracy Ullman.

Her name's on the screen. And I went, that's the

song from last night. That was Tracy Ullman. They don't

know the song. Now, wait a minute. If you're not

paying attention, everything that I just said just goes by you. Right?

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 5: Right? It just goes by. what are the odds of

me hearing that song the night before spent? Oh, I

hadn't heard the song in 30 years. Right. And, and

so it was stuck in my head and the next

night and I'm seeing her on the screen. I'm like, man,

she looks from it. And that bloom is Tracy Ullman.

And I went back and I watched, I immediately looked

up the video shirt and I was like, Oh man,

that is how everything is connected. So when you're talking

about OBEs or we're talking about this or that, yes, yes, right?

And I'm giving you an example. I'm serious. I sat

up in bed and was like, that was wonderful how

the universe just reached out and handed me that gift.

That's crazy. So, yeah, I think it's all connected. And

I don't care how crazy I sound right now. Yeah,

me too.

Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Um, yeah, that's really, it's like, it

adds another layer to it too, because it's like, well,

some part of you was reaching into the future or

like you were, you were seeing the future.

Speaker 5: A hundred percent. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And if you don't

pay attention, then you don't get to enjoy it. I'm

telling you, man, I smiled for like 15 minutes. I'm like, man,

that was cool. Uh, uh, but yeah, I think it's

all connected. I truly do. You mentioned doppelgangers earlier, and

we started to talk about ghosts. How do they tie

into the out-of-body experience?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a weird one. So a doppelganger is when

you or somebody else sees you as a ghost, but

you're not dead or anything. When we think of ghosts,

we think of somebody that's deceased. But there's also... ghosts

or apparitions of people who are living and sometimes they're

just wandering around wandering around about their own business they

have no idea anything weird is going on but somebody

says hey i saw you somewhere maybe in the house

and this seems to happen a lot in cases of

hauntings like the enfield poltergeist case it happened with somebody

seeing i think it was the It was the paranormal

investigator that was living with this family in the 70s.

And I think it was his daughter that saw him,

but he was upstairs the whole time. And it also

seems to happen a lot with people who have OBEs.

So somebody will either see the person or hear them.

And so one of the ideas about this, which actually

brings us back to the Siberian shamans too, is there's

this idea that in many, many cultures that we have,

we're not just one soul as we think of it

in the West, usually. We usually think we have one soul, right?

And we take it with us when we pass on

and it's always all together. But in a lot of

other cultures, including what the Siberian shaman said, was that

we have these other parts of us. It sounds a

lot like the subconscious or maybe like the right hemisphere,

which isn't able to speak or connect with, with words,

but it can speak in symbols or images. And, and

so what the Siberian shamans were saying was I was

trying to figure out like, what is it, what do

they call OBEs? Cause they've been doing it for forever, right?

What do they call it? What's their name for OBE?

And I couldn't find any name for it. My friend

was like, you know, they just say, I went out

or my sunnezin went somewhere. My sunnezin went somewhere. And

she said, there's these two words that they use. One

is like setkil. And that is probably what we would

term our soul or our mind, like our conscious mind

that we're, you know, always consciously perceiving things with. And

she was like, the sunnezin is, it's like our subconscious

or our ghost. And sometimes the two are, Together. So

when we're having... an OBE, we are together with the sunazin,

like we're perceiving everything. But they have those kind of OBEs.

They also have another kind of OBE where their sunazin

goes off and is doing things, but their consciousness remains

in the body. So they're in two places at once.

Speaker 5: Like remote control.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like a remote control. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. So what are you suggesting? It's very interesting

that this is what you are saying. Are you suggesting

that so you're having your OBE, you are in another

city or at the shop or whatever, right? At the

shopping mall. And you're... walking around the shopping mall in

your OBE, but somebody else sees you. So they come

back and go, dude, I saw you at the shopping mall.

I wasn't there. No, you were. I saw you. Is

that what you're suggesting?

Speaker 1: Yes. So that could happen where the person is actually

100% immersed in their OBE. They're in the shopping mall, right?

But somebody else who's in their physical body sees them

as a ghost. That's possible. And there's a sociologist in

the 50s called Hornell Hart who collected reports of this.

And he talked to people that said that they could

actually do this intentionally and have people view them. And

he called it ESP projection. And he gave talks at

universities about it as well back then. So that's something

that that's definitely reported. But then another thing that's really

weird about the OBE, which I've never found in any

other type of experience, is that you'll be walking around,

say you're in the shopping mall, you're having an OBE,

and nobody can see you. And you're going like this

in front of people and you feel you can feel

floaty or something. But you can also feel like you're

moving around in another body sort of or Or you're

just like a ghost, you know, moving through. But it

feels really real. And then the weird thing is that

sometimes people will see you. Sometimes it's only like one

person out of everyone will see you. And a lot

of times they'll act like they're scared. They'll act like

they've seen a ghost. So I definitely think there is

something really connected between OBEs, ghost sightings, doppelganger sightings. And

this is what a lot of the parapsychologists were getting

to back, you know, a hundred years ago or so

when they were talking about OBEs, um, that book I

mentioned apparitions, which was written in the forties that, uh,

that's the book where the term OBE was coined out

of body experience.

Speaker 5: I've never, I've never told this story before. It's, it's

too crazy, but, um, My first wife, Kathy, she's no

longer with us. She passed away about 10 years ago.

But she's the mother of my daughter, Nicole. And Kathy

and I go to this restaurant. We were driving home,

but we were down in San Diego or something. We're

coming back, and we stop in Hollywood. And we go

to Cantor's Deli. All right?

Speaker 1: All right.

Speaker 5: Favorite place and a friend of mine owns it. So

we go in there and we sit down in this

booth and I, you know, I know everybody there. And

so Kathy and I are sitting in the booth and

this guy comes up, this older guy, I hard to explain,

but he looked European or Greek or something older, older,

probably 70. And he sits down at our booth. Right. And,

And I was like, what? And Kathy and I are

sitting next to each other over here. He's facing us.

He's sitting on the other side. And he just says this,

just like this. You're pregnant. I go, what? And he

gets up and walks away. I turn to her. I go,

are you pregnant? She goes, no. Anyway, the owner of

the restaurant, Mark Cantor, he comes over. Hey, Jimmy, what's

going on? I said, man, who was the dude just

sitting here? And he goes, who? There's nobody here. No,

the guy just came up and started talking to us.

He sat at the table and he walked. He goes,

where is it? And we get up. He's gone. Dude's

not in the restaurant. Dude's not in the restaurant. Disappeared. Now,

this sounds crazy. Now, he probably walked out on the

street and got lost in the crowd. Yes, I get that.

But I didn't see any of that. And Mark didn't

see him sitting at my table. I've known Mark since

he was a little kid. And he sat me at

my table and he goes, no, nobody. I was like, what? Now,

you ready for the crazy part? She was pregnant. And

we didn't know.

Speaker 1: But she didn't know at the time yet? Nope. This

guy knew before she knew. Nope.

Speaker 5: She was tiny, too. She's a little tiny little hundred pound,

five foot two, you know, skinny. Didn't look pregnant to me.

And so anyway, it was. So, again, astral projection. Is

that a ghost? What what what's going on with this

whole thing? Was he some kind of shamanic gypsy from Hungary?

And I don't know. I don't know. But but. Yeah,

I don't like sharing that story. It's just too crazy.

It's too nuts. It really happened.

Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't sound crazy to me, Jimmy.

Speaker 5: But that's a really interesting thing because I've talked to

a lot of remote viewers about this exact subject where,

especially at the CIA level and the KGB level, because

the KGB, you know, remote viewing psychic spies, that was

their whole thing, right? And so, and you're right about that.

The United States was trying to keep up with what

they were doing and they were very aware. So, but

I've talked to a lot of those remote viewers that

were a part of the Stargate program. Most of them,

the ones that are still alive, I've interviewed them all. And, and,

and I'm friends with them. One of the things that

they have said is they have been in a room, right. And,

Russia or here, whatever. And people have turned around and

looked at them. They didn't see them. They sensed them.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I definitely think something is

going on. Okay. I'm going to tell you a crazy

story that I don't think I've ever told anywhere because

it's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Um, it's not crazy here, Sam.

Speaker 1: Uh, this was, you know, I was, I was thinking like, I,

I really wanted to apply for a PhD, um, and

continue this OBE research and stuff. And I was like trying,

trying to rein in the crazy stuff, you know? So

people don't, cause they do check up like who, who

are we going to allow in the university? But, um,

it was the same OBE retreat and we were supposed

to do this, uh, visualization exercise. And I didn't think

it was going to work at all. I just thought

it was so different from anything I tried. You're supposed

to sit there for an hour or lie there for

an hour and visualize a different place. You're in a

different place. You're going around and you're touching the surfaces.

You're trying to really feel the textures and smell the

smells and really try to immerse your senses in that space.

But it's all in the mind's eye, right? It's more

like similar to remote viewing, whereas the old ones you're

crossing the threshold and you're like kind of in, in

VR rather than on a webpage kind of a thing, uh,

or like looking at a YouTube video or something. So

I tried this for about 20 minutes and I imagined

myself in there. It was this big old, like Irish

mansion that it was being held in. And it was

in the, um, the lounge room, which was across from

the hallway and, And I imagined the room bigger. I

imagined what it might have looked like a couple hundred

years ago. And I thought, okay, I'm bored. I really

hate meditating. I'm just going to start thinking of stuff.

So I put my hair up. I put on a dress,

this blue silk dress with ruffles going down it or something.

And then I decided to sit down on the sofa.

and start to feel the textures and everything. When I

did that, suddenly it was like in a movie, like

where you just get that kind of whoosh and you're there.

And this was only a split second, but it was

like that visualization session had turned into an OBE where

I now was in the lounge. Like I felt like

I was actually in the lounge and the sofa you

know in color immersed but it shocked me so much

that it only lasted you know a second and I

was like whoa and I I got up but for

some stupid reason I thought that's not an OBE that's

something else you know This was back like 13 years

ago or something. I was still, I had OBEs, but

not like that. And it was more like, I felt

like teleporting or something. So I decide it didn't work.

I don't know. I got up and I went to

make myself a cup of tea. And this girl who

was doing the meditation practice upstairs in her room, she

was also coming to make herself some tea. So She

was like, yeah, it didn't work for me either. Like

I did get out of body, but I got sucked

down into the lounge. Like a vortex opened up, you know,

because she usually would astral project. She'd go somewhere far away.

Like she'd try to go to Antarctica or somewhere. She

thought I'm going to slow down. I'm going to just

walk around my bedroom and just like touch things around

bedroom and stuff. And she gets sucked down to the lounge.

And then she goes, and I see this woman with

her hair up in a blue dress and.

Speaker 5: Oh, no, she didn't. Really? She did.

Speaker 1: And the only thing that was different was I think

the ruffles went down my dress and she saw it

around the dress like you would normally see. And she

was like, the room was bigger. It was older. And

then so and it gets weirder. This story gets much weirder.

So we went like, oh, OK, that's what I was visualizing.

So we went to the facilitator and we told the experience.

He's like, that is an OBE. It's just like, it

just started differently. And the next morning we got up

really early every morning to share any experiences. He's like,

share the experience. So the next morning we shared the

experience and this other girl is actually Alison. The one

that I'd been, uh, was like later sleeping next to you.

She starts freaking out on the other side of the room.

And the girl next to her is also freaking out.

And she tells her story. She's like, I was lying

on that sofa during the practice. And suddenly she felt

like somebody sat on the sofa and she heard like

the rustling of the blanket that was on her. And

that just freaked me out. What is happening?

Speaker 5: So why, why, why would, why would here's okay. I

think this is the most important question that you could

have with this. Why were you all drawn to the

same location? There's something.

Speaker 1: It was an OBE retreat. No, no, no.

Speaker 5: Not that location. The room.

Speaker 1: Oh, to the lounge.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Why were you all... You were taken there. All

of you were taken to the same place. Why? What

was the significance of that?

Speaker 1: I think the lounge was the place where we normally

had our meetings and our... you know, it was the

main room of the house that we would normally hang

out in. So that, and it was, I was across

the hall, my physical body was across the hall in

the other room. And I think because it was the

one that I was most familiar with, I decided to

visualize myself in that room. And then that girl, she

was just lying there because there was a lot of

sofas in the room. But The interesting thing is, too,

the woman that was up in her room, why was

she pulled down to the lounge?

Speaker 5: Exactly.

Speaker 1: It was like gravity, gravitational force. So that kind of

brings us back to, well, can you navigate where you

go once you're out of body? Can you choose where

you go? Like sometimes maybe there's kind of it's where

somebody else is or like even if you want, even

if you know that person or you want to be there,

you might get sucked in anyway. So there's all these

weird things that I want to explore. Like, how does

it work?

Speaker 5: Yeah. I, I, I, I, uh, I'll, I'll share this

with you too. Very similar situation. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm not,

I used to, I'm more woo now. I'm completely woo,

but I used to walk the fence. Right. Okay. So

I'm on the fence and my friends, that were into

crystals and meditation and this and that and sound bowls

and all. And I was like, man, that's bullshit, man, whatever.

And I didn't hide those feelings. Everybody knew, you know. Okay,

so anyway, I'm with a bunch of friends and they go, okay,

we're going to go into this thing. We're going to

do this sacred ceremony and come on, join us. I go, no, no, man,

you guys, go do your thing. No, come on. So

they talked me into it. And there was like 20

of us. And so they got the sound bowls, the

singing bowls, the sound bowls in the middle. There's like

four women, all friends of mine, that are singing. And

I'm watching what everybody else is doing. And they sit down. Okay,

so we're all sitting in this big circle. There's like

10 of us and four in the middle. And I'm

just kind of watching what everybody else is doing. I'm

going along with it, okay? I'm not buying into anything.

That was the stupid move. So I'm sitting there, and

I close my eyes, and I'm listening to them singing,

and then it happens. This pink veil, like, comes over

my eyes. Whoosh. I'm gone. And I am walking around.

I've never told any, and I won't discuss it, but

I'm walking around on another planet. Okay. I am somewhere else.

I'm not on earth.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: Okay. I'm not going to get into the details of it. Anyway, the,

the bowls stop, the singing stops. And when the singing stops,

I didn't even hear the singing while I was on

this other planet. But anyway, and the pink veil goes

up like this. And I opened my eyes and I

didn't know where I was. I don't even know how long.

I'm looking around. I'm looking at everything. I had to

reorientate myself to my surroundings.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 5: I did not. It was that nuts.

Speaker 1: That was like intergalactic OBE.

Speaker 5: It was crazy. And it scared me because I was

not in control. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Where were you? Why did you go there? Like, that's

the question too with OBE is because a lot of

us can't control where we go. That's the question is like,

not just who are these beings too, that we might

run into, but. why did we go to one particular place?

And sometimes we can seem like we go into the past,

the future as well. Like, why is that?

Speaker 5: Does it repeat as well? Do you go back to

the same place?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's a question too.

It's like, why? And it kind of, it's interesting. Like

you could have a hundred astral projectors and a lot

of them are going to have very classic experiences where,

they mainly are limited to their room or their home,

or they might go into their garden or something. And

then they might have an experience with a deceased, deceased

loved one or a living loved one, something like that.

And then you've got, you can never tell like what

you're going to get. It's, it's random. It seems, well,

it seems random, probably not. You got people that suddenly

they're going into the past and they're seeing people in

one region of the world they've never even been to.

And then that could make them think, well, maybe it's

a past life. Maybe there's a past life connection or something.

Speaker 5: That's a real thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's something to that.

Speaker 5: Yeah, there is. Now I just mentioned, I wanted to

ask you about this because in the maybe half a

dozen experiences that I've had like this, there was always,

and I don't know why I'm asking you this pink

curtain and it's pink for me. I don't know what

it is for others, but, um, and I'm talking about

different times, different people, different experiences, not like I did

six OBEs in one day. I'm talking about over years with,

you know, with different people around the world, always the

pink there's always this pink curtain veil, smoky, steamy thing

that comes down. And then I go, is there, is

there a commonality with that? Is there a, you know,

a sepia tone tint?

Speaker 1: Cause that that's the first time I think that I've

ever heard someone say that they've seen a pink veil

or like a pink. So it's kind of like when,

when that comes down and then it's almost like you're,

I guess seeing through, like you're wearing pink glasses. or

something right.

Speaker 5: Well well but the pink goes away and then i'm

in that spot but the it's like the curtains are being.

Speaker 1: Opened oh so like you get a pink veil that

comes down like.

Speaker 5: This or lifts and then it.

Speaker 1: Dissipates And you're there.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, okay. I have heard this mostly with blue. That's

the first time I've heard it with pink. And I've

also heard it with like a golden color as well.

Speaker 5: Okay.

Speaker 1: A lot of people get also like a monochrome, just

like black and white, like you're in a black and

white film. I get that a lot too. And I've

had the blue a few times. I was speaking to

Graham Nichols, who's had a lot of OBEs and teaches it.

Speaker 5: Yeah he's great yeah.

Speaker 1: He messaged me the other day and he was like

i'm in northern what was it northern um sweden with

the sami shaman and i'm teaching him how to have

obe's or making drums and i'm like wow like you

get around dude like so random um but he he

said that when he gets the blue or the gold

obe's it tends to be um kind of like a

psychic OBE. Like he's seeing something that's really happening, an

event that's really happening, you know, at that time or whatever.

And that's been my experience too. Like if I have

a blue experience, then later, maybe one year later, I'll

go to that place. And it's a place I've never

been close to before in my life.

Speaker 5: When you say blue, when you say blue, what are you,

are you saying that the whole world has a blue

tint to it?

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just like, I'm wearing blue tinted glasses. I'm

seeing everything blue.

Speaker 5: Okay.

Speaker 1: Uh, it's yeah, it's really cool. It's really weird. I've

never had the gold or I think any other color, but, um,

we were really trying to like figure out why could

this be and like digging into science about the eye

and the cone cones in the eye. And maybe it's

something to do with, you know, there's, um, the blue

hour and the golden hour before dawn and sort of

this sort of thing. And so the scientific explanation, like

you're switching into a backup memory, a backup model of reality.

Speaker 5: Okay.

Speaker 1: Maybe the snapshot it uses is, um, you know, before

dawn or after dawn, that's why it chooses those colors.

But I think there could be something else going on. Uh,

like there's this old letter I found in these old

parapsychology archives, uh, from like the twenties or something, uh,

And there was this woman who, her mother, she was

staying at her mom's house while she was going, you know,

passing away. She was sick in bed and she went

up to see her mom and the maid or the

nurse or someone was, I'm trying to remember because it's

a while ago, but I think both of them saw

this blue rectangle hovering over the mom's body, like her torso.

And within, it was like confined to this rectangular space.

There was this like blue misty kind of thing moving around.

And then, um, I think it was the next day.

Her mom said that everything in the room was blue

and misty. So from that, I was like, okay, maybe

it's not the environment that's blue. Maybe it's you that's blue.

Maybe you are emanating like a blue, like an aura

or something. And you're just seeing through that. And there's

also cases of people seeing apparitions, especially like crisis apparitions

before death. If somebody is in another country and they

die and they don't know it until like a month

later when they get the news. Or seeing and being

in an OBE, sometimes people see blue people or like

a light, a light, a blue light around them. which

is also in religious reports too, like blue ladies and

things like that. So I think there could be something

like that going on. But the pink veil is, that's

the first time I've heard anyone say that also of

a color coming in and then dissipating once you're there.

Speaker 5: I've had it happen so many times. That's got to

mean something. I was in Egypt once. I've told this

story a lot. You're hearing it for the first time,

so I'm just going to do the short version of it.

So we were at Dendara, the temple, and it was

on my birthday. And the priest, there's a priest for

every temple in Egypt. Historically, it's always been the way

it is. Anyway, so for my birthday, he's going to

take me to this underground temple. pharaonic lake this is

in the sahara desert all right anyway so we go

it's 10 stories down it's 100 feet underground and we

go down very old there's a lake under the sand

right anyway so we 100 feet 10 stories we descend

no electricity no lights uh we're barefoot all these things

that we had to do we weren't allowed to talk

Very sacred space. So we get down to the bottom.

I jump in the water. And I do this thing.

And I turn around and I'm ascending. I'm going back

up the stairs. And it happens right then. Pink veil

comes down. I put my hands on the walls. I

can't see. We're in complete darkness. And whoosh. Yeah. Yeah,

it was crazy. And I just stood there on the stairs.

It lasted for about. probably about 15 minutes and and

um as i didn't want to lose it so i

kept my eyes closed so i kept my hands on

the granite walls it's like a cave yeah and i

just keep my hands on the walls and i just

go up one step at a time but i had

my eyes closed i just wanted to stay in that

world um and then i got to the top and

i felt the sunlight on my face and opened up

my eyes and That was crazy town, what happens there.

But anyway, here's what's interesting about that. So the pink

was there. I don't tell everybody all of my experiences

because I don't want to contaminate or influence other people's experiences.

So I'm not going to get into the details, but

I'll say this. I got back here to the States

and I started calling my Egyptian researcher friends and telling

them about what happened. And very interesting, the realization came

to me that 3,000 years ago, you know, 4,000 years ago,

they would go through the ceremony of descending those stairs, pharaohs,

and get their questions answered. So they're going through the

same thing that I went through. I don't know if

it's the water, if it's the heat and the cold,

the light and the dark, and maybe a combination of

all of those things and chemical changes in your body.

I don't know about any of that. I only know

about my experience. Now, what were the ancients thinking when

they were going through that same experience? Right. And, you know,

trying to unpack that, I can only say that it was,

like you said earlier, it's a doorway to another reality.

And it's real.

Speaker 1: And in the look at the British Isles or Ireland

or something, you've got these old stories of people being

taken to another place or just walking around and they're

suddenly in another place. And that's where the fairy lore

comes in, right? So it depends on where you're living,

but there's so many similarities to it. And I also

think to kind of tie in with the OBE stuff

and also the alien stuff and the OBEs and everything,

I think it all ties in because you are... So

I think it was the SBR president and a few

others that have said, that when you're seeing a ghost,

it's not the ghost that's coming into your environment. You,

your mind has changed. You are in a different state

of consciousness. Even if you don't feel like you are,

you don't notice the difference. You are now, it's what

is called a metachoric experience, which is Celia Green, Charles

McCreary made this model back in the 60s. So it's

lucid dreams, OBEs, or apparition experiences, anything where you're in,

they believe that you're in a totally immersive environment. Everything

is hallucinated. But by saying hallucinated doesn't mean it's coming

from your mind. It's just, it means it's not any

longer coming from the five senses of the physical world.

That live physical stream of reality has been interrupted. And

now you're in this other kind of, you're like in

the back rooms. or something, but you don't realize it.

And you can slip into that and slip out. of

it without noticing and you can call that an out-of-body

experience or whatever i think when I was talking to

the alien contactees, a lot of their experiences sounded like.

Speaker 5: They're the same thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5: I mean, when somebody says, so I was lying in

my bed, you know, and they came in and, you know,

and I went out and I went through the ceiling,

whatever it is, you know, their experience. That's an OBE. Yeah.

Speaker 1: And maybe there's something happening where there's some technology or

some mental problem. technique that can be used by another

being or maybe even humans that can induce an OBE

in another person.

Speaker 5: Yes.

Speaker 1: Maybe that's what's happening. I think.

Speaker 5: Yeah. I would, my first reaction to that is of course,

but yeah. And because you and I were talking about

this now, and I think that humans and our ability

to understand and knowledge is is it grows every single day.

We know a little bit more, right? We don't know

a lot, but we know more than we did before.

All right. And part of that is trying to understand consciousness. Well,

I may go head to head with a lot of

people on this, but I truly believe that an advanced civilization,

more advanced than us, that visits our planet, has a

complete grip on consciousness. We don't. We don't. We don't

understand any of it. We know it exists, but we

don't understand it. And going back to your point, an

advanced civilization would absolutely understand it in ways that we

can only dream about or imagine today.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 5: So that's it. That's my take. We're not there. We're

not even close.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I hope not. It makes me kind of

wonder what people would use it for.

Speaker 5: Well, yes, there's that part. But I would say, let

me ask you a question. How many people, there's eight

and a half billion people on planet Earth. Out of

those eight and a half billion, How many have experienced

deja vu?

Speaker 1: I would say probably everyone or almost everyone.

Speaker 5: All of them. Every single one. Right? So if that's

the case, that we know that deja vu exists, like

you said earlier, somebody's reading our book from the future.

But I would say that everybody on this planet has

experienced deja vu. And if you've experienced deja vu, which

is everybody, then you know that there's something else going

on that we're not taught. It's that simple.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Like you said, if you're paying attention, if you're

paying attention to everything that's going on, I think most

people or everyone has experienced something, some kind of synchronicity

or something that they couldn't explain.

Speaker 5: Now, can I ask you, you don't have to be

specific here, but what about your husband? Does he have OBEs?

And have you guys done that together? Or is this

something that you guys just don't talk about?

Speaker 1: This is another thing. He was like, oh, he's so

happy that I'm doing this radio show with you today.

He's like, oh, you have somebody to talk about OBEs with.

He's like, I'm sorry. I'm not interested in them. It's

just a weird thing. But he has had two OBEs

as a teenager. He did have OBEs. But he's not

interested in them. And I'm like, doesn't it make you

question reality or anything? He's like, I don't know. Not really.

Like if, if you find a way that I can,

you know, make money doing it, then tell me. But

until then he's like.

Speaker 5: What about, what about life after death or near death experiences?

What's his take on that?

Speaker 1: I think I asked him about it not too long

ago and he's like, and I think we should just,

there's probably nothing. And I'm like, how does somebody like

me end up getting married to somebody like that? You know,

it happens so many times, doesn't it?

Speaker 5: Opposites attract. Opposites attract. Is Korea, is it Christian?

Speaker 1: There's a large Christian population. There's also a large Buddhist

population and a large population that doesn't have any religion

as well. And a lot of people also, believe in

shamanism where they follow shamans and they go to the rituals.

But in general, it's a, it's a pretty like day-to-day

life is quite non-religious, I guess. But I mean, even

saying that there's an amulet on the top of my

door and there's amulets all over my apartment and in

my husband's car and everything, everywhere, restaurants, you go to

these amulets.

Speaker 5: What do you mean? What's an amulet?

Speaker 1: An amulet um it's like either sometimes there's a protection

it's like a protection protection an object for protection some

of them are from buddhist temples but most of them

were created by shamans to protect or to like for

specific purposes you know bring in more business or to

cast out the evil eye from surrounding businesses, from competition.

Speaker 5: But they don't believe in God. But they don't believe

in God, right?

Speaker 1: Oh, no, they don't believe in.

Speaker 5: God, too. You understand what I'm saying. The Russian community,

I know this because I was a part of it

for 25 years. The Russian community, you go into a

Russian home or apartment here in L.A. Right. Huge Russian

Armenian communities here. Every doorway has got something above it.

Speaker 3: Every door.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Every doorway. You just look. There's something there. It's

not always the same thing either. Right. But it's every

in the house, man. It's like every doorway has something

above it.

Speaker 1: But you might see it like here in Korea. It's everywhere. Everywhere.

So if you just come here and you look around,

you might think, oh, people are really spiritual here, but

then you get talking to people and they don't, they're

not like, there are people that are interested, but a

lot of the people that I've met that are really

interested in these topics are unfortunately, they just seem to

be doing it for money. Like either because they want

to make money doing this or like teaching this or something,

or to, it's all to bring in money to them.

It's not like asking questions and, you know, but I have, like,

I do know people that are like that, that can talk,

I can talk to you like this. Um, but not

on Gaje Island yet. Not yet. I am, I'm looking,

I'm looking, I have more time on my hands now.

So I'm, I'm definitely, um, going to travel around the

country more and like seek people out.

Speaker 5: Do you, um, uh, do you teach this?

Speaker 1: And like body experience yes no um i've been i've

been asked to for a long time but i had

like these kind of workshops years like 2013 for one

summer um and i stopped it because i wanted it

to be kind of like a peer thing like we

are all in this together like i'm not a teacher

or anything and people were treating me like a guru

which was so weird because i've been having obese for

maybe like three or four years three years I think

and like I still don't know anything and like even

now like I still have tons of questions I don't

want people to like a lot of people that are

looking to learn um I don't know there seems to

be this kind of um clicky thing too where a

lot of people they want a certain narrative they want

a comforting narrative And I just want to research it

and explore what it is and share that information with people.

And also, if I teach it, I am actually going

to be doing a workshop next spring in Japan. But

I've got days and days with people and I have

the time to share. These are the things that might

go wrong. These are the things that maybe you can

do if anything goes wrong.

Speaker 5: Because.

Speaker 1: A lot of what's out there about OBEs, what's being

marketed by OBE teachers is, do you want to meet

your deceased grandmother? Do you want to meet your school guide?

Speaker 5: Everything.

Speaker 1: And like I said, a lot of the negative experiences

are being filtered out of these spaces, these online spaces.

And if you talk about an offline spaces to people.

A lot of people will say like, oh, it must

be because your vibration's too low. There's something wrong with you.

But that is not the case. If anyone's listening, they've

had a weird experience or like a scary experience. I

can 100% tell you it's not because you know, there's

something wrong with you, or you're not spiritual enough or

something like that.

Speaker 5: I love it. I love it. I look forward to

talking to you again. This has been an absolutely fascinating

show for me personally, and I know everybody else. But

I just learned so much. Thank you so much, Sam.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on.

It's been great talking to you.

Speaker 5: Go walk around Goji. I'll talk to you. I will.

Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5: Have a good night. Samantha treasure. That is a perfect show.

We had four perfect shows this week. They're all perfect.

They're all just amazing. Samantha treasure. Her links are below

over on our website and throughout social media and And

this will wrap my week. So tonight is my Friday.

It's your Thursday. Everybody have a great, safe, fun, and

amazing weekend. I'm going to do the same. And I'll

see you right back here on Monday. But for now,

all I've got is go Beckley Tappy. Fade to Black

is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Freed.

Special thanks to Bill, John, Dex, Jessica, Dennis, and Kevin.

Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Aldrich. Intro, Spaceboy.

Fade to Black is produced by KJCR for the Game

Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted 2024 by

Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc. It

cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in the

known universe without written permission from Fade to Black or

the Game Changer Network. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Go

Beckley Tappy.