Kawhi Leonard is No Longer a Los Angeles Clipper.

Rob and Shap get together to talk about Kawhi Leonard's departure. In a huge deal, LAC brings back 2 firsts, a first swap, 2 seconds, Brandon Ingram and Gradey Dick for Kawhi, and the Kawhi era is officially over. What do the guys think about the new additions, and how do they feel now that Kawhi is actually gone?

Speaker 1: Hi, this is Ralph Lawler. Welcome to the Lab, the Jam,

Pod Jazz. What's up everyone. It's the Lab, the Jam,

the Pod Cats and Chapan come to as always with

Rob as Ralph.

Speaker 2: Uh, it is going shop. It is a monumental day

here Tuesday, June thirtieth, a day that will live in

infamy for Clippers fans. Or maybe not, maybe it'll all

be sunshine and roses, but big day for the Clippers.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the Clippers. Kawhi Leonard is no longer a Los

Angeles Clipper. He is finally gone. And we barely knew him.

We actually barely knew him despite all these years, honestly,

but he's finally gone. The details of this deal are

still kind of trickling in, but we have some general

framework of it. Of it. Sham's reported it's to be

Ingram Grady Dick two first round picks, one pick swap,

two second rounders for Kawhi Leonard. And there's been some chatter.

Frett Siegel mentioned maybe twenty seven twenty nine thirty with

twenty seven first, twenty twenty nine first and the thirty swap.

Why am I flipping that? Rob? No? That is what?

Speaker 2: That is what Siegel said that has not been confirmed

anywhere else else. Siegel has had some stories like he's,

you know, on the second or third tier of newsbreakers,

but it has not been confirmed anywhere else. I imagine those

and if there any protections are still being discussed. There's

I mean, the second round picks are small potatoes, but

there's I don't think he mentioned what the second round

picks are either, So I would say this is still

a little bit watery. But you know, that's what we'll

be basing our discussion off of right now.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

Speaker 2: What were you even talk about this?

Speaker 1: Well, we're going to Rob. What were your immediate reactions,

Rob to this deal finally happening.

Speaker 2: Still a little surprised, even after all that, it was

still like a little surprising reading Clippers trading Kawhi Leonard.

I thought he would had a pretty solid chance to

retire with the franchise. I didn't. It wasn't like set

in Stone. It wasn't like this guy is definitely going

to be here forever. But I thought it might happen

as recently as like a couple of weeks ago. I

think part of what we'll talk about is what may

have changed because something seems to have changed, or or

the Clippers were lying a lot in the past few months,

and maybe that is just all it is, but it

was just initially it was just surprised, and then I mean,

I was happy that they were able to quote unquote

extract more out of the Raptors. The initial reports were

that it was brandon Ingram Grady Dick and a single

first round pick, and to me, that's just not a

that's a non starter. So getting a second first round pick,

the swap and two second rounders, you know, again, we'll

see are those all unprotected, what years those might be,

et cetera. That is still significantly more value than was

initially reported. And to me my baseline level of analysis,

which I texted to you and Lucas, this is the

bare minimum for an acceptable deal. Like there's not a

blue chip acid in here at what's even below blue

chip ASSEID a green chip asset, I don't even know.

There's not even that, Like there is it's it is

a poo poo platter, but it is just enough stuff

and stuff of just enough quality that I think it's

a powertable deal. I think this is like a C

plus B minus return. Again, pending picks and protections. If

any of these picks are protected, that knocks it down

for me. Like, to me, these picks have to be

unprotected for like any real upside, even if the upside

is unlikely, so that that is still pending. But it's

just good enough that like I'm not like, wow, this

is a really bad return. It's it's a fine return.

And honestly, considering where we've been with Kawhi over the

past few years, it's better than we might have thought

it could have been like a year or twogo. It's

also maybe worse than some fans had hoped, But it

seems pretty clear that they were not going to get

like a blue chip asset for him, whether it be

like a super far up first or a young guy

like to the level of Colin Murray Boyles, who I

knew a lot of Clippers fans coveted. Those just seemed

like they were never really in the cards. Well, we

can talk about some of the particulars, but overall, it's

an it's an okay enough deal to justify it, and

you know, I'm glad it didn't drag out too long.

Speaker 1: Rob, do you think the Clippers could have gotten anything

close to this last year for Kwi Lightard last summer. No,

you know, I kind of I I kind of I

agree with you to some degree, But I think that

this is a pretty decent haul all things considering, because

everything is just hinging on Kwi Leonard's legs and they

could fall off at any time. They could fall off

next year. I think the Clippers did well selling high.

You know, could the Clippers have maybe gotten a further

out pick for Kawhi? Could they have got I mean,

they're getting two first rounders in a swap for the

longest time through this year. My kind of baseline expectation

for maybe a dream like scenario for Kowi Letard, honestly

all through last year, even when he was playing quite well,

was two first rounders. I was like, please get me

two first rounds for Khi letter sign it in, send

it in. I'll be happy. And now the Clippers are

getting two first Granted, the twenty twenty seven draft is

much maligned as a draft class, so getting that pick

and it being so close to the Raptors being quite good,

it is probably the worst going to value you could

get here in.

Speaker 2: The twenties unless something disastrous happens.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well what you could, but I'm not saying it.

Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean with Kawhi's health

and you know, Skottie Burnes has not always been the

most available. He hasn't had any super severe injuries. You know,

some of the other pieces currently on the Raptors, like

I Manual Quickly and Yakup Perle who you can laugh

about it, they are kind of important pieces in terms

of the roster functionally are quite injury prone as well. Like,

the Raptors could be even a playing team, and in

the modern NBA launtery rules, a playing team gives you

a shot at a top pick like so again it's

not unquestioned that this is going to be bad. But

like the Raptors are likely going to be a playoff team,

which means it's likely going to be a pick somewhere

in the twenties, and even in a good draft that

doesn't have a ton of value. It's not nothing right

like their home run picks in the twenties all the time.

It's certainly like a real asset, but it's again not

like close to a blue chip type of thing. Yeah, yeah, again,

we'll see. Maybe maybe the Ears shifts.

Speaker 1: And when we were first talking about this deal, I

wanted Murray Boyles like that, that was the guy I wanted.

I'm a big fan of cmb's patron listeners, would would

have an idea of it. I love that guy whenever

I watch him play. At the same time, when we

were talking about it in our group chat, we pretty

quickly realized like, oh, we are not going to get

him most likely, even if we got Peartles deal back.

Even then, he was too good in the playoffs, Like

he really flashed really well in the playoffs. If you

would have crashed out like Brandon Ingram did, then maybe

we would have had a shot. But yeah, now we

have these two. Now we might as well talk about

their money a little bit.

Speaker 2: You know.

Speaker 1: Grady Dick is a lot of repick that's going to

be making about five million in twenty four to twenty five,

five million in twenty five twenty six, and then seven

million in twenty six twenty seven. Really crashed out kind

of tough last year when his shot lost, like left him.

And he is a negative defender, you know, people watching him,

you know, maybe could get some shades of movement shooters

like Luke Canard or JJ Reddick kind of watching him

move off ball. He is kind of a fast moving

off ball runner type that Tyler likes. However, his shot

left him a bit last year and he can't defend,

and he's like kind of a smallish guard. Brandon Ingram,

you know, I think Ingram just kind of goes that

into the whole kick the can forward mentality the Clippers

are going to be putting through the next three years

where they don't have their draft pick, and he crashed

out I mean, for lack of a better phrase, last

year in the playoffs, he was quite bad for majority

of that first round series. He's gonna be making about

forty million dollars in twenty five, twenty six, twenty six,

twenty seven and twenty seven twenty eight player option in

twenty seven to twenty eight that he, you know, decent

chance he picks up unless he plays himself into another contract,

which maybe he does. Let's talk a moment about these

two rob before we talk about Leonard. What should Clipper

fans anticipate with these two actual tangible players are getting

back next year.

Speaker 2: I mean, brandon Ingram to me is like a known commodity.

He's been in the NBA ten years, which is kind

of crazy, makes me feel old. You know, he's played

a lot of minutes over those ten years, and you

know he's like twenty nine years old. Guys at his

age and with his you know, number of minutes in

the NBA do not really like they can adjust. You know,

guys can get better like individual skills. He basically is

who he is, and what he is is quite frankly,

really a mostly empty calorie score. He was not always

on that trajectory. I think sometimes people still have in

mind his career from like his early Pelicans days is

for two seasons on the Pelicans, one who was in

his early twenties. He made the All Star Game in

his age twenty two season. He's still pretty good the

next two years. Advanced metrics view him as haven't dropped

off the past four years. I think, you know, the

defense has fallen off. The scoring just is really plateaued.

Like he was a twenty three point eight point per

game scorer in that twenty twenty season and that's the

second high ice mark of his career. The past years

has been under twenty three. But he's been right in

those low twenties points per game the last seven years,

so like he will get buckets. And he's not inefficient, right, Like,

you know, he's not like a classic early to mid

two thousands guy who just puts up points at like

a horrible efficiency level. He's reasonably efficient. Like he's an

OK three point shooter. He gets the line, you know,

a little bit, not as much as you'd like, but

like he's not averse of getting to the line or

taking threes. He's just not good enough at either of

them to be like a truly efficient scorer. And you

know he's for a small forward, he's like a fine rebounder.

Kui is a much better one, presuming Ingram does start

at small forward in place of Kuhi, that the Clippers

rebounding will take a hit. He's averaged more assists at

points than Kawhi, but I think that's just because he's

had the ball in his hands more for some bad

teams and who have needed him to pass. I don't

really think he's like much of a playmaking upgrade over Kuhi.

You could say maybe a little bit better of a passer,

but realistically what he is is, again, he's like a

pretty good scorer who will score relatively efficiently and quite

fully doesn't bring like a ton else to the table.

That's like a real plus. Again, he's not an awful rebounder,

he's not an awful defender, he's not an awful playmaker.

He's also not really pluses at any of those things.

And then greades out is like he's he's a decent starter.

I think he made an All Star game last season.

It is one of the worst All Stars in recent history.

He was really undeserved and he got it through quite frankly,

just him still having like a lot of media reputation

from him being a hydrograph pick and being a Laker

all these years later and like Toronto media campaign. It

was a really underserved All Star.

Speaker 1: And me, there have been some worse All Stars in

the I mean Chris Chris came.

Speaker 2: There have been some worse ones for the modern era.

It's it's down there, it's I do.

Speaker 1: I do think that the Raptors, because of their year

deserved representation. You would have put Barnes over him, Rob Well,

Barnes made it as well. Oh you're right, Oh they

got two Oh my gosh, wow.

Speaker 2: Yeah, because they were like fourth in the East at

the time was like the rap that it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: Oh that's funny that both of them made it.

Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean are a good player.

He's not a bad player. He's a good player. He

is not an all star caliber player. He just isn't

you look at it.

Speaker 1: You look at his stats flat and look at them

alongside Quai, then it obviously quiet average more points. But

you know you could squitt in your eyes a little

bit and and talk yourself into it. You know.

Speaker 2: The difference is with Ingram has always been the numbers,

like the raw stats and the eye tests looks better

than the impact SATs. Impact stats have never liked him

very much. And I think it's just because he's he's

never been a good defender again, just because he's all like,

he's not awful on defense, but he's just not very

good on that end. And he's just a slow processor.

So it's Kawhi really but like Ingram just like is

too deliberate. He doesn't move the ball quickly and just

doesn't do like a lot of those little role player things.

And again he's just he's just not as efficient as Kai.

Kui is a better score and shooter from basically everyone

on the court. Yeah, I mean he I think that

the idea, as you kind of said, is that he

does step in and can do like a lot of

the same basic things Kawhi can do. He can handle

a pretty high level of usage. He will score in

the twenties, you know, with Garland sending them up and

like not that many other scores on the road. Yeah,

he'll replicate a lot of it, but he'll just do

it worse at basically everything. And again, not an awful player.

I find him excruciating to watch, as longtime listeners and

people who've been following me on social media, No, I

really do not like watching Brandon Ingram play. But he

is a good player, and the deal is bad, but

it's not horrifically bad. It's just two more years and

next year will be an expiring and like the Clippers,

if he plays well this year, the Clippers will probably

be able to flip him for something next summer if

they want.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a nice thing about this. Let's take a

quick break talk about Grady Dick after this. Oh right,

we're back, Rob. You know, let's talk a little bit

about Grady Dick. Here, all the jokes aside, poor dude,

you know he I have a couple of archetypes that

I like in the NBA. I love you know, I

definitely wanted Shed in this deal. We Unfortunately we're not

able to get him because I love me a rugged

defensive guard, you know, okay, Chris and I who has

some floor managing capability. I also love runners, I love

off ball shooters. I love JJ Reddick a lot. I

enjoyed Luke Canard's you know, wherever he finished in the

sixth min of the year that one year where the Clippers.

I know other players, but I did enjoy Canard when

he was able to shoot a bit more Greeny Dick.

You know, he's six', Seven. ROB i didn't realize he

was this. Tall he's he's not.

Speaker 2: Small you said smallsh, guard AND i was going to correct,

you but there were more important things he is.

Speaker 1: Not, yeah, yeah his.

Speaker 2: Size he's got some.

Speaker 1: Size and you, know he just feels like a volume

type of. SHOOTER i can't. Shoot he was thirty percent last.

Year thirty five percent was. Tough that's real. Tough thirty

percent for a guy that's known to be a shooter

is pretty. Rough he was thirty five percent on decent

enough volume the year before where he had a pretty

good year when The raptors you, know weren't particularly. Good

And i've caught him on some days Where i'm, like,

wow this guy is a real offense that'sset now is

the you, know good stat uh bad, team good stats

type of. GUY i don't know how invested Should cliper

fans be in this in this guy's not very.

Speaker 2: MUCH i mean he's he's not an awful, flyer, right

like you said He's he was the thirteenth pick in

twenty twenty three. Draft he's still only twenty two years.

Old he turns twenty Three november, Twentieth, like he is

definitely young enough to turn HIS nba career. Around the

shooting if it returns to his first two seasons is

like he's not a great, shooter but he's like a

threat from, deep you, know four times at thirty six

point five percent six at thirty, Five like that is

a guy who teams will guard from out there and

can get hot on certain. Nights you. Know, again everything

else leaves you a little bit. Cold like last year

when he played almost thirty minutes a game fourteen point

four points not. Bad three point six rebounds for a

guy height one point eight assists to one point five. Turnovers,

like he is a guy who kind of like he

can do a little bit of. Shooting he can do

a little bit of of like slashing and ball, handling

but is not great at. Anything he is young enough

that like he could turn things. Around SO i think

this is a fine. Flyer was it like the second

guy in this? DEAL i wanted, no like you, SAID i,

MEAN i would have Preferred shed or Really Jacobi. Walter

but like those guys are again not blue chip, Prospects

dick honestly has more pedigree than either of, them probably

and And tech. Has if you want to just throw

out like theoretical, upside the highest possible upside version Of

Grady dick is probably higher than those two. Guys the

floor is just much. Lower Like walter And shed were

both capable rotation players for The raptors last, Year Grady

dick played in like seventy six, games and like he

was on the fringes of the, rotation but he was

not like a play a lot of minutes like playoff.

Guy but he's a fine. FLYER i would imagine that

like he sticks on The clippers, roster maybe they flip,

him you. Know, again we'll talk about the rest of

the roster in a few. Minutes Jordan miller And Kobe

sanders are other guards of similar size who The clippers

are more attached. To you, Know Grady dick is as

younger than both of, them significantly younger Than Jordan. Miller

both those guys have already been better in THE nba

though Than Grady dick, has and, again The clippers know,

them AND i just like both of them better than. Him,

still like that's. CROWDED i don't know if this means

anything For Benedict, Mathern LIKE i think he again is

kind of on a level Above Grady dick to where

it like wouldn't really. Matter so like it's possible he's

just kind of buried and doesn't even really get a

roll if The clippers bring all three of those guys,

back especially With Keaton woggler also on the. Roster so to,

me it's, like you, know it's a, flyer there's not much.

Risk he only has one year left on his. Deal

then he's a restricted free. Agent maybe The clippers like

having him around and maybe he shows some, stuff and

they keep him on like a cost control, deal you,

know going, forward even if he doesn't play. Much but

LIKE i would not hold a ton of stock in

him being like a real guy for The.

Speaker 1: Clippers, yeah his his size. IS i didn't realize quite

how big he was UNTIL i looked up some of his.

Measurements interesting. Player the problem is he's just not hitting

threes enough of a clip for me to really identify

as at like as like a bona fide and based.

Skill i'm sure he was a great score in. College we'll,

see you. KNOW i think it's a worthwhile flyer for a,

year kind of see what you can get for. It

like you, mentioned he was not in the playoff rotation

at all for The, raptors and those other two players

were kind of played himself out because he's not able

to shoot and not able to. Defend i'm curious of

how we'll. Look i'm sure he'll he'll run some motion

stuff and it'll it'll get, me you, know. Hyped but

he's gonna have to make some. Shots at least he's.

Willing but he's the big you, know kind of but

what you call green chipper and this Thing rob and.

Speaker 2: GREEN i don't even know. Green what's less than? Green

what's the? COLOR i don't like? Orange?

Speaker 1: Orange? Orange we got?

Speaker 2: Grown, YEAH i don't. Know he's not that sounds. Bad

he's not, nothing, Right like he's not a complete just

like this is absolutely, Nothing like they're there are rappers

PEOPLE i follow who like think there is something there

with his skill. Set last year was just was very.

Tough it was a very tough look for. Him guys

can have those down years and then come. Back he's

a new, situation new, coach completely new roster around, him. Obviously,

YEAH i wouldn't hold much, stock but like it's not

nothing that he was, included and LIKE i think there's

at least a chance he could be something for The,

clippers but LIKE i would not bet on.

Speaker 1: It, yeah we're being, Real, like you, know the value

here is all in these, picks which we still don't.

Speaker 2: Know it's been twenty five minutes since we started the,

podcast and we still there's no other information that's coming out.

Them it is just the time. Market it is five

thirty Eight eastern on The tuesday Of june thirtiethfect like

a couple hours after the news. Broken none of the

picks have been, confirmed so we don't really know. Yet but,

yes all it was all about the. Picks the players were,

confirmed you, know in the past couple of. Days it

was just negotiating over. Picks that's where the actual value

of this deal.

Speaker 1: Is, Yeah, rob it's been a couple of. Minutes we're

going to talk about this, more probably when the three

of us get together pretty soon. Here, yeah But Kawhi,

leonard The Kwhi leonard era is. Over the two and three,

era you, know ended With Paul george to a, degree

but now it's really. Over James harden came and went

in between for a cup. Coffee The clippers maybe last

year had still some idea of maybe making a run

With Kawhi leonard And James. Harden, honestly like there was

a moment where that team was really good even Without Paul,

george AND i believed it for a, moment If i'm being,

real AND i felt this when it, happened and it's

only been. Proven the twenty three era ended When Kwhi

leonard tore his Acl that pretty much was all she.

Wrote AND i respect The clippers for kind of putting

it together a little bit after the After Paul george

left and staying competitive and saying really. GOOD i, mean

you know That James Harden Kahi leonard group is probably

going to be one of my favorite seasons Of clipper basketball.

Ever not just, them but you, know, Done Derrek Jones,

junior Like zoo like all that stuff was so. Great

that was a great series against The. Nuggets they were

so close to winning. It it's a real shame they

didn't BECAUSE i think that crew really deserved. It but,

ultimately you, know a. Failure Kawhi leonard Came, clippers did

not make the. Finals he did not play in a

conference final finals. Game he was not healthy to end.

Anything but to his you, know his last playoff run

and his first playoff playoff run both at the hands

of The Denver nuggets and seven game, series and he

had some. Flashes he did. Well you, KNOW i will

Say Kahi leonard did really well to ricou his, value

especially this last. Season if you're not gonna win a,

championship at least what you can do is kind of

garner some of your values on the way. Out we're

not completely empty. Handed and he did do. That outside

of maybe retiring A clipper and you, know, honestly probably

still not showing that much for. It maybe The clippers

get lucky and win a playoff series these next couple

of years Of Kwi, leonard DO i expect anything? More

Kawhi leonard couldn't get Past Draymond. Green you, KNOW i

get that the war was.

Speaker 2: Tough that is a, tough, tough tough final game For.

Speaker 1: Court yeah, yeah AND i get that the words were

loading up on. Him but you're supposed to be the

star and he wasn't able to get his looks in

the fourth. Quarter he wasn't able to score at. All

and how are you going to expect that guy to

last multiple rounds even if he doesn't get help? Hurt,

now you, know luckily The. Raptors you, KNOW i can't

wait to Watch. RAPTORS i love what they're doing over.

There it should be. Fun they should be really, good

should be really. Good Scottie barnes is maybe good Enough

robin Slash batman type that does that take enough Off Qui?

LEONARD i honestly don't think. So it's, offensively he's still

going to have so much falling on his shoulders that

it's hard for me to really pick The raptors to

win a title or like make the. Finals but they're really. Good,

defensively they're. AMAZING i think quickly it's still kind of

an underrated, player AND i think he fits well in

kind of what they're doing as their kind of fast point.

GUARD i LOVE, CMB i Love. BARNES i think that

they're just a, fun fun. TEAM i like their young

guys too that they managed to. Keep but ultimately, speaking you,

Know i've been Wanting Kwi leonard to be traded for.

Speaker 2: Years since twenty twenty. FOUR i, think, yeah was When

Paul george. Left it was like what are we really doing?

Here AND i mean.

Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five was.

Speaker 2: Awesome it was maybe the most fun season of the

Entire Kawhi leonard. Era even though he didn't play for

a lot of the regular, season it was a great

regular season and like you, know, again as you, said

it was a really hard fought playoff series against The

nuggets that it ended really. Disappointingly but, yeah LIKE i

it's the era was a. FAILURE i don't think there's

any two ways about, it And kawhi unfortunately was at

the center of it for for a lot of the. Failures,

again like you can't blame somebody for their, injuries and

we've never done, that but it just is what it.

Is like you said he was not healthy for five

of the clippers seven kind of postseason. ATTEMPTS i guess

you should, say since two of them were playing, losses

and it's just like it's it's, tough like he was

just never quite good enough or healthy enough for The,

Clippers and certainly there were lots of issues around. Him Paul,

george as we've discussed many, times also never lived up

to a second billing like The clippers thought he. Would

there were some disappointments From harden and other, players and

there were some questionable roster building, decisions but, ultimately Like

kawhi was the best, player he was the, guy and

he was not good enough or available enough for the

team to, ever you, know make serious. Runs and as you,

SAID i mean the. Past even though twenty twenty, four you,

know with all three Of, HARDEN pg And kawhi was

like a really good regular season team at the end

of the, day they did lose in the first. Round

and like twenty twenty, five again they win fifty games

but lose in the first. Round this team hasn't been

in contender the last five, years since twenty twenty, one

and it's just it was time AND i think you

could you could have hoped that The clippers would get

MORE i, Think AND i don't know if we want

to talk about this, Now like why exactly The, clippers

after being so committed To kawhi did not even offer

an extension considering they don't own their pick for another three.

Years like maybe it has to do with, Aspiration maybe

just think his lower bodies at ticking time. Bomb maybe

they just were really ready for a firm start and

refresh in terms of the. FRANCHISE i don't maybe a

combination of all. Three but it is interesting that after

being so committed to him and being a team that

really can't bought him out in tank the next three,

years they went away from, him even though his two

year extension would have just covered them through the end

of the time when they Owe, oh The sixers And

thunder their. Picks so. Curious i'm still waiting for like

some sort of article or reporting to come out about

why exactly The clippers went so hard the other, direction

because clearly they. Did but, honestly you know, again the

return is not very. EXCITING i will miss Watching kawhi

to some, extent but it's it really was time for this. Experiment.

Speaker 1: End let's take one more, break And i'm going to

talk a bit more after. This All, right we're. Back,

yeah you, KNOW i am gonna miss Seeing. Kawhi WHILE

i wanted him traded for a long, time you, know

it was really great to see him play so. Well you,

KNOW i do think a bit of My kawhi enthusiasm

was snuffed out after he just couldn't really bring it

After game two last year against The Denver. Nuggets, LIKE

i got really excited When kawhi played that well In game.

TWO i thought maybe The clippers COULD i, mean just

LIKE i was telling, You, rob like maybe The clippers

could have A Cinderella New York knicks type run and

get through This west that doesn't totally feel set, yet

and maybe they could do. Something but then the rest

of that, series he was so up and. Down he

couldn't really exert himself to close those. Games i'll, say you,

know there were at least there were two games That

Kawi leonard has kind of threw, away one literally at

a bounce and then the Huge game four where he

missed a couple of shots when The clippers made their

run and he could have kind of put the game

away to a, DEGREE i, think you, know The clippers

had a shot either tied or maybe even with the.

LEAD i Know bogie gave them a league very, briefly

And qui rushed it a, bit and it was kind

of a big. Damper AND i think that there was

a lot of problems within the, roster BUT i really

felt that team was good enough For kawi to elevate

them in that, Series like it's a really Damaged nuggets.

Team and despite the fact that he played so well this,

YEAR i think in my, head after seeing him struggle

so much that series and being quite healthy and ramping

up at the end of that, YEAR i was. OUT

i was just kind of out of, it AND i

was just, like it's, fine like do well this. Year

you're not going to get us. Anywhere get what you

can for this, guy now get what you can because

he's just Not this is just insanity expecting him to

be any, different and there's a chance in his, body

even if everything is, great just isn't there anymore to

handle the low that The clippers were giving. HIM i,

mean this is Even kawhi had an outsize, role you

know this. Year, Yeah so WHILE i have good, MEMORIES i,

Mean i'm always gonna remember that amazing game Against Dallas.

Mavericks if The clippers ever get a game like that

from anybody else and that While i'm, alive it'll be

surprising because he really put the team on his back

in that.

Speaker 2: Game, wow you have no faith In Keaton.

Speaker 1: WOGGLER i mean Maybe Keen woggler is T Tyre's, halliburton.

Speaker 2: But Winning, woggler.

Speaker 1: That performance when everybody else felt kind of, tight that

was really what you Remember Kwhi leonard against like The

sixers when everybody else was tight against you, know with

that that Was that's a championship. Player that's what you

trade everything. For, now had he stayed healthy a couple more,

years maybe The clippers do win a. Championship, also maybe they.

DON'T i mean a lot of, People i've seen a

lot of people kind of assume that The clippers would

have had this championship run Had Kawhi leonard Never tore's

ACL i don't, Know joannis was really good that. Year you,

know they wouldn't be in The. SUNS i agree with,

that But i'm not. Sure probably might never. Know you

probably would have been The. Suns, YEAH i think you never.

Know but it's definitely not a guarantee that The clippers

would have beaten The Milwaukee. Bucks that team was really,

good it's not a guarantee they would have won the year.

AFTER i, think you, know this, team the team was quite,

flawed AND i think the biggest problem was that they

didn't really capitalize on The Doc rivers year when they

had so much. Talent they had just ann insane amount of.

Talent they were unfortunately led by a guy who just

would not leave his, guys And Montres harrald was one

of those guys over beat The. Zoobots SO I i

do have some regrets about the two and three, Era

but at the same, TIME i think it was a

little bit maybe we were a little too optimistic on

this idea that The clippers were going to win a.

TITLE i.

Speaker 2: DISAGREE i go. AHEAD i mean the twenty twenty, team

they were really.

Speaker 1: Good they were and that's it.

Speaker 2: Though, YEAH i mean Was Doc, rivers but, like you,

know not Excuse doc or The clippers. Players the bubble

is just IN covid just messed everything, up and like

it's it's hard for me to blame that team for not.

Winning LIKE i think the way they went out was.

EMBARRASSING i think like a lot of the specific issues

WERE doc related and like people make fun of the

way off. Peak why also disappointed in game seven of that,

Series like there is fault to be laid on the,

roster but like you're, CORRECT i, mean to, me that

was the best single roster of the entire, era because

that's still when like The Pat Beverly Lou Williams Montress

herald got still had. Juice but like it just you,

know it was a it was a bad stroke of

fortune that it's a little bit of an understatement ABOUT,

covid but the whole bubble thing really messed with them

and they were never quite right, there and like it

just is what it. Is it was like a generational

thing that, happened and it messed with The. Clippers in

twenty twenty one was The, achilles and like it was

JUST i think those two two teams were good enough

to win a. Title the twenty twenty four, Team i'm

a little bit if you're on LIKE i theoretically on

paper they, did BUT i Think kawhi's health and like pg's,

DECLINE i think made it like that team in hindsight

was not going to be able to win a, title

but like they could have won that series If kawhi was.

Healthy but, like, YEAH i think like. That The, CLIPPERS

i don't think our optimism was. Misplaced you, know seven

years ago when we, were you, know giddy at the prospect.

Speaker 1: Of the three hour podcasts we.

Speaker 2: Did it's like a fever. DREAM i remember bits and

pieces of. IT i don't think we were overly, optimistic you.

KNOW i think if you have to be like in

the hindsight, BIAS i think Thinking Paul george was going

to be the guy he was that season With Oklahoma

city was probably a. Misstep and The, clippers again as

we've litigated many, times have made many other. Decisions they

were horrible in the draft up until they were no longer,

contender and then all of a sudden twenty twenty three and,

on they started drafting a little bit better. Again but

the years they really needed to hit on, picks they

completely whipped on. Them and you, know they had made

some other poor free agent in turgy, decisions but like

ultimately they were they had some bad luck and, like

even in, HINDSIGHT i think The clippers it's hard to

say that they shouldn't have done what they. Did they

got like a bottom twenty percent, outcome you, know maybe

even lower considering who they got and the team they

had in twenty, nineteen and it's just unfortunate that everything

happened the way it. Did but it's. Over we'll have

much more in depth pods on on this going, forward

but it's, yeah it's still just tough to wrap mind

around that this is Now Darius garland's team And Keten

woggler's team and hopefully not.

Speaker 1: Do you think do you think the do you think

the do you think The clippers do this deal if

they don't get the fifth? Pick? No, yeah, RIGHT i

agree with.

Speaker 2: THAT i Think, WOGLER i, mean Not wogler, SPECIFICALLY i

think the fifth pick changed. Everything, YEAH i think so.

TOO i think they probably would have Extended kawhi and

just happen.

Speaker 1: It but, YEAH i think there was a floor that

The clippers kind of lost with With williams And harold

to degree that really lifted that talent level of that,

team and then after that they were upper, echelon but

they didn't feel like outright favorites to. Me you, KNOW

i think that first year they were really they really

had a you, know a take for being the favorite

with The, lakers maybe just based on the insane amount

of talent on that. Team and then you Had Doc,

rivers and then the next couple of, years even With Kawhi,

leonard you, KNOW i think that there was they were,

up there were in the higher, tier but they were

NEVER i don't, KNOW i just feel looking back at

it WHEN i think about the, years every year as

they went, THROUGH i do think that year that they

kind of had the, talent but they didn't have the.

Coaching and they THEN covid happened and the bubble was

weird and none of them liked. It then there was

a falling out with kind of a lot of the

lower end role, players and some of it was Like

Lou williams got shipped out in The rondo, deal and

Then kaui gets, hurt, uh and then things are just

never the same after, That like it's just that's pretty much.

It kawi tears his acl. BY i think that's part

of what you. DO i mean had a bad quad

like when he won a. CHAMPIONSHIP i mean it's, hard you,

know BECAUSE i, Agree LIKE i was so giddy when

they first had that deal. Happen BUT i think kind

of looking, back were there? Year how many? Years WAS

i really, Like, oh this was the title?

Speaker 2: Year you, know it was just the first, two and

maybe you could do twenty.

Speaker 1: Four maybe we would.

Speaker 2: Have to listen to Our we would be interesting to listen.

TO i would never do, this but it'd be interesting

to listen to our.

Speaker 1: Pos Just rob just listens to ten hours of podcasts

after this. Ads, well While twitter is rolling all these

free agency, Sidings, yeah it's it's. TOUGH i Hold, kawhi

no Ill.

Speaker 2: Will i'm not going to be like actively rooting for,

him but LIKE.

Speaker 1: I, WANT i love this, team but it's not necessarily

because Of. KAWHI i THINK i like his addition to the.

Mix there are other free agent things to talk, About

by the, Way, ROB i mean nothing too, BIG i

mean done. Done some money is guaranteed Now Brook lopez

is coming back on his. Option restricted free Agents Ben,

Mathurin Jordan, Miller Kobe, sanders With kobe And miller likely coming.

BACK i LOVE i love Some Jordan miller. Again i'm

glad to be back on that. Train and the rest

will kind of SEE i, mean some kind of clear

cut things have been. Happening we don't know About collins.

Yet we don't know what The mattherin sweepstakes is going

to be around.

Speaker 2: The league is the really interesting one Because collins there

have been rumors about teams interested in him and offering

him the mid. LEVEL i have not seen rumors of

a single team being interested in math and maybe it's

just maybe he's just coming back to The. Clippers maybe

that's what that. Means maybe whoever is interested in is

keeping it really under. Wraps maybe he doesn't have much.

INTEREST i don't, know but Yeahs collins is gonna get

the mid level exception from. Somebody i'm guessing it will

be The. CLIPPERS i think The clippers would like to

keep him. Again maybe This skauaid. Deal maybe they just

take this year as a complete gap year and they're,

like you know, what we don't. Care we're gonna be.

Bad maybe our pick that we sent To, okay so

he's gonna be really, good but supposed to be a

bad draft and with the new lottery, odds like there's

not a lock that our, team you, know being bad

will guarantee they get like some top line pick if

we give them like another, pick and like the early,

teens like who. Cares so maybe The clippers are like

gonna be, like you know, what we are gonna Let

John collins. Walk maybe they Flip Derek jones junior as,

well he's on an expiring. Deal maybe they try to

Flip Brandon Ingram LIKE i think that all the reporting

has been like that they want to keep like some

level of competence this, year but like who knows, It

we'll just have to. See but, YES i would Imagine

miller And sanders, return and, honestly even though LIKE i

will hate Watching Brook, lopez considering the other deals that

free agent centers have, signed it is what it, Is

LIKE I Jock landell got fourteen million dollars And Robert

williams was like three for forty, five And kessler and

durn are going to get massive deals like it just

there really just were not going to be many options

in The clippers price range to fit what they're looking.

For so it is what it. Is they're gonna Brooklup

as will start Until janiko And niederhauser is. Healthy but,

yeah The clippers are not going to be very good

this year Unless woggler is truly incredible out of the,

gate and and maybe he, is it would be it

would be awesome if he. Was but this team is

right now a thirty win.

Speaker 1: Team you don't, KNOW a big believer In Baba miller

and it's coming out.

Speaker 2: PARTY i Like Boba, LER i WILL i don't think

he will be good this year or, no, yeah, YEAH

i Mean i'll. See, well it's just it's so hard

because The clippers for a long time is this free

agency plan right like summer this summer to sunk, stimp

but really next summer and they could still get. There

like next, summer the main contracts will Be woggler and

Then garland And, ingram and Like ingram presumably on an

expiring would be movable if The clippers really needed to

shed some. SALARY i don't. KNOW i haven't looked at

the free, Agents, LIKE i don't know who would be.

Available like the marquee name Was, giannis presumably he's going

to resign In. MIAMI i Think Donovan mitchell could technically

still be a. Fragent would they really run Back Donovan

mitchell And Darius garland? Again but, like you, know the

free agency plan for next summer is still. AVAILABLE i,

Guess but, YEAH i, DON'T i. DON'T i don't. Know

this this season is shaping up to be like a

they're probably not, horrible but they're probably not very good.

Either and you know, what as long As woggler's, good

that's really the only thing that my and like maybe

the other big thing, is like Can garland recoup his

value either maybe he cements himself as The clippers like

franchise point, guard or maybe he just plays well enough

so that The clippers can flip him for like actual

real assets at the trade deadline and really go into

more of a full reset towards the end of the twenty.

Speaker 1: Twenty, yeah it's a new era. Everyone let's see what

The clippers do with. It i'm very interested in the young.

Players we're gonna talking About Summer league pretty. Soon. Here

there's gonna be some free agency stuff. Happening it's happening

now that we'll come back and talk about probably over

the weekend With, lucas but The Kawi leonard era is

done and you don't have to talk About kwiler. Anymore

you don't have to worry about. Him you don't have

to be stressed out that he's playing so. Well how

long is it going to? Last how can we trade?

Him or is he going to retire A? Clipper AM

i going to be living in this state of anxiety

afraid of his? Body it's, done and it's, bittersweet it's

gonna it's just kind of hitting me now that he's,

gone after wanting him gone for so. Long but you,

KNOW i do appreciate some of the stuff he. Brought

there's The clippers did have A conference finals run that

he was part. Of they signed a guy of his,

magnitude WHICH i think is maybe the biggest thing they

were able to sign outright who was thought of maybe

as the best player in the, league and that's not

a small thing for a franchise like. This but we'll

have more to talk about now that it's over and

where The clippers are going to, next and we'll be

talking about. It still leave us a nice five star

review whatever for listens on five stars five. Stars he

helps some nice words, too will read them on the,

air and as, always Go, clipper