Clippers Bring Back Jordan and Kobe, Still Have a Hole at the Four

Lucas, Rob, and Shap get together to talk about the new look Clippers, the haul received for Kawhi, bringing back Kobe/Jordan for reasonable deals, and how to fill the huge hole at the 4 with some hopeful upside options. Clippers feel like they have some questions before a very fun Summer League, when they can get a look at what the future may hold particularly in one Keaton Wagler.

Speaker 1: Hi, this is Ralph Lawler.

Speaker 2: Welcome to the Lab, the Jam pod JA.

Speaker 3: What's up everyone, It's the Lab, the Jam casquond come

to is always with Rob as a going rob.

Speaker 1: It is going well shop. The Sunday scaries are creeping

in like they do every Sunday, like a metronome. But

outside of that, I'm excited for Summer League. Real basketball's back.

Forget the playoffs, forget the finals. We need things that

the Clippers can actually compete in, like Summer League. So

I'm excited.

Speaker 3: I am genuinely excited for Summer League, as I am

often want to do, even when the Clippers don't have

a fun roster, and they do kind of have a

fun roster. We're also here with Lucas, someone who is

not shy about covering summer League. Lucas, you remember how

many episodes we did on Jason Preston. I still remember

that sometimes, Like, man, we talked about Jason Preston a

lot for two weeks.

Speaker 4: Well, I mean, what are we supposed to talk about it?

Speaker 2: Right? Like, sure, yeah, they're playing games.

Speaker 4: It's you know, I don't think any of us ever

thought that, like Jason Preston was, uh, you know, I

think maybe going into the second year, there are some

noise that like, oh the Clippers sink Preston might be

able to be the backupoint guard this year. I think

all of us were like, Nope, Nope, not happening, and

then it didn't happen. But no waggler or waggler. I

think comparable to, like, not in terms of the career trajectory,

but just from a Clipper Summer League fun perspective, I

think more comparable to like a shake Gilles Alexander, like

really getting the sense that you are seeing a lottery

pickpoint guard who.

Speaker 2: Could be the future of the franchise.

Speaker 4: Right, So a lot more to sort of sink our

teeth into this time, and I think, like Boba Miller

is going to be a really interesting guy to watch

in this summer League as well. So yeah, I'm looking

forward to it.

Speaker 2: And how are you, Lucas, How are you? In general?

It's been a minute since we've done.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been a minute. I I think I did

get a pod in after the draft, but I'm like

in between trips and just got back from the second

trip and I'm pretty sick after traveling for two weeks.

But yeah, I mean a whole ton has been happening

with the Clippers while I've been gone.

Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out to the Clippers, always keeping us on

our toes. The Clippers, I mean, Lucas, We're gonna get

your take on KWI. But since we me and Rob

lested a pod, not too much has happened now. Jordan

Miller signed a three year, fifteen million dollar deal with

the first year guaranteed. Kobe Sander's four years for eleven

point two with the first two years guaranteed. Deals that

we sort of expected getting these two guys for cheap

young guys cost control deals, great deals for rotation players.

I like Miller's deal, especially because I think Miller is

just a clear cut rotation guy. Sanders I also consider

him a rotation guy, but he also had a bit

of a hot shriek. You always get a little bit

wary when an inconsistent shooter so only shoots forty percent

from deep in a small sample size of games. But

I think he did enough overall to make you think that, oh,

this guy is a rotation steal that the Clippers got

in the second round. John Collins is a Detroit Piston

and We're still waiting to find out about Bended mactherin.

There's been some rumors swirling about Payton Watson and maybe

the Clippers looking around for a young athletic type of

player that I'm hoping that they're looking for and not

just Benedict Mathren rob I might as well start with

you before I kind of also get Lucas's takes on

Kawhi Leonard.

Speaker 2: Have you felt.

Speaker 3: Maybe with the Clippers kind of being a little quiet here,

you know, doing things we expected them to do. It's,

you know, just the beginning of July. It's a long game.

I'd never get, you know, two worked up about things

not happening before the moratoriums even over. But how are

you feeling about the Clippers now in this new era

of Clipper basketball?

Speaker 1: I mean, I'm excited to watch Keaton Woggler. I'm excited

for a new era. I think we all agreed that,

even though with some reservations about not just dumping Kawhi

Leonard and you know, to some extent or another missing

watching him play basketball for the Clippers, that the Clippers

really needed a new start. It was time to move

past the Kawhi era into something else, and I'm excited

for that. I will say, there are you know, I've

seen fans say that the Clippers will be competitive, that

they'll you know, not to underestimate them the roster right now. Again,

you said it's still quite early in free agency. That

is true. Their current roster is not a competitive roster,

and there are things that they can do to remedy

that a Peyton Watson signing would help. But their front

court is would probably be the worst in the entire

nbas I if the roster is you know, if the

seasons were to start tomorrow, I would have to look

through and maybe like one of the really tanking teams

would have a worse front court. But I think the

Clippers would probably have the worst front court in the

NBA right now. They do not rostery power forward, and

none of their centers are starting caliber, and the center

situationrobably will not be fixed in free agency. But I imagine

there will be a couple forward signings or trades in

the coming weeks to round out the roster. Even if

the Clippers aren't like really actively trying to win, it's

just not a complete roster right now. So yeah, I

would anticipate more moves. I've been happy with all the

moves they have made. I will also note Shap that

when we potted, it was immediately after the Kauhi trade

in the details of the trade were unclear, and the

picks we talked about were not the picks that were

actually the ones that were being traded, So we talked

about a package that included much more, you know, near

future picks. The Clippers got much for their outpicks, twenty

thirty one and twenty thirty three, firsts and seconds in

I think thirty and thirty three, and then I believe

a thirty or thirty two swap, I can't remember. But

the swap year.

Speaker 4: They also got the they got the swap for next year.

Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I'm thinking of. Yes, they got the

swap for next year.

Speaker 4: Is important because they're allowed to swap with Toronto after

Oklahoma City swaps with them. Yes, So whatever pick the

Clippers get, Oklahoma City is going to take it and

give the Clippers probably like twenty eight, twenty nine or thirty.

Toronto is going to be good next year, so it's

still going to be a pick in the twenties. But

the Clippers should if Oklahoma City is better than Toronto

next year, the Clippers will have a slightly higher pick

next season.

Speaker 1: Though, yes, what have the swamp is for next year?

That's yes, that's correct, which is, you know, again not amazing.

It's probably not as useful as the swamp would be

in like the twenty thirties, but it is still helpful

because the Thunder, as you said, are going to be

one of the three best teams then bea quite possibly

have the best record again, and so the Clippers will

move up a little bit in the in the late

first round, which is nice. Yeah, So, like that trade

looks even better than we thought it did when we

talked about it. When we talked about we were like,

this is the minimum possible package. Now that we know

the picks are further out, that package looks from just

palatable to being actually very good. And you combine that

with the Sanders and Miller signings, and I think it's

been quite a good offseason for the Clippers so far,

even again, if the roster is incomplete for next season.

Speaker 3: So look, it's just to get that straight. Like, let's

say the Raptors have the twenty second pick, the Clippers

have the sixteenth pick, and then Oklahoma City has like

the thirtieth pick. So do the Clippers end up with

that Raptors pick and that whole swap trio scenario there

the twenty second pick. Theoretically, if that was the case,

it's a little it's.

Speaker 4: A little more complicated than that. I'm not I'm not

sure how interesting this is for our audience. But Oklahoma City,

it has swap rights with the Clippers or Denver next year.

Oh and their swap rights with Denver are top five protected.

Obviously they can only swap with one of those two teams.

So like, there's a world where if Denver is worse

than the Clippers next year, which is not going to happen,

but you know, whatever, right things can happen. If Denver

is worse than the Clippers next year but not in

a top five draft selection, Oklahoma City will swap with Denver,

and the Clippers will either keep their pick or swap

with Toronto if the Clippers are better than Toronto. But

what is most likely going to happen shap is this,

the Clippers will be worse than Denver, so Oklahoma City

will choose to swap with the Clippers. Toronto will be

worse than Oklahoma City, so the Clippers will then swap

back with It's kind of like a white elephant head Christmas.

But yeah, so I think the Clippers like probably what

we're talking about, right, They got the future picks, and

they got brandon Ingram, They got all this stuff in

this trade, and this piece of it probably is something

like moving up from pick thirty to pick twenty four

in next year's draft.

Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense, Lucas, I'm gonna give you a

whole next segment to talk about Kawhi Leonard. How do

you feel about what the Clippers need to do to

plug in their roster? I mean, I think all of

us are gravitating towards that four spot to me, the

center position. I think Brook Lopez is a bit of

a stop gap here to hopefully what lends it's a Yanick.

I believe it was Justin Roussou who mentioned November December

being the timeline per Yanick as far as when he

believes he's coming back. So that's the case, you know.

I do think the Clippers have a big center, a

bit of a center problem here. I think they have

a bit of faith in maybe Yanick at least getting

our runway here to start hopefully the rest of the year.

Speaker 2: And what's a bit of a transition year.

Speaker 3: The four situation here, I just I mean, to me

feels kind of brutal and feels like what they should

be working on. But how exactly could they work on that? Lucas,

I mean, I know you have a lot of the

cap scenarios mapped out.

Speaker 2: In a bit. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Well, so I'll say first of all that when they

picked up Brook Lopez's option, that was a huge indication

to me that that the center position was going to

be Lopez, Jackson and Yanick again next season. And that's

not ideal. It's a bad center rotation. But I think

when you look at like there were some rumors that

the Clippers had poked around at some other sort of

of band aid center options besides Lopez, Jock Landale got

fourteen million dollars in free agency, Nimas Kida got fourteen

million dollars a year in free agency. Like so, you know,

I had said this, I think on the pod previously,

but you come out of last season and you think, okay, well,

first and foremost, the Clippers need to upgrade the starting

center spot they traded Zoo Brook Lopez doesn't have it.

They need to figure that out. And then you look

down the list of potentially available mid level exception free

agent centers and you go, oh, maybe they need to

just bring Brook back. Maybe that's like, maybe that's just

is what it is. I think, what's the thing about

the center position?

Speaker 2: For me?

Speaker 4: With the clip is right now? Is Yonick like, when

does he get back? What does he look like? What

is his sort of development trajectory on? Because I was

not shy in March about saying that I really thought

that Yanick could have taken the starting job by the

end of the season. So what does this rehab period

look like? Is there a lot of athleticism or does

it take a longer period of time to regain all

of the athleticism. This obviously stunts his development because he

misses an offseason, he misses a training camp, important stuff

for a raw young player. So really have no clue

how this plays out for Yanick. But I think if

the Clippers are going to be sort of transitioning, I

think almost leaving a little bit of space open at

center to figure out what happens with Youanick makes sense

because I do think that Yanick could be a good

starting center in the NBA based on what we saw

from him last season. We saw flashes. We didn't see

him playing at that level consistently. We saw flashes that

were really enticing from a rookie. So yeah, I hope

that he is back early in the season, and I

hope that he ends up being the starter by the

end of the season, and that would be a really

phenomenal trajectory there. Power forward, they got to do something.

I think that Peyton Watson almost is like by default,

feels like they have to go for Peyton Watson. The

Clippers have left themselves in a position where they have

right around the cap number that you would think you

might need to deter Denver from matching for Peyton Watson.

They can get to about twenty five million. I think

thirty probably would be safer, but the Clippers could do

a couple of other things to free up a little

bit of money here and there as well, and the

order of operations is gonna matter. I think one telltale

sign is keep an eye on Jordan Miller. Right, Jordan

Miller has agreed to a new contract, but he has

not signed that new contract.

Speaker 2: Yet that new.

Speaker 4: Contract is worth over two million dollars more than his

cap hold, which is the amount that's on the books

for him for the Clippers until he signs. So once

he signs that, once he puts his name on that

piece of paper, the Clippers lose two million dollars of

cap space. As long as he does not put his

name on a piece of paper, they are keeping that

flexibility open for some options. If he officially signs, then

they don't see themselves using that room. And Dick Mathern

thing is interesting. I think there's some questions about if

the Clippers might be able to get a sign and

trade out for Mathurine and get something back in return.

The Clippers could also try.

Speaker 2: To keep mathriin.

Speaker 4: I mean they extended the qualifying offer to him, which

means that he is capable, you know of they could

still bring him back. But yeah, I think you really

look you look at guy like Trey Murphy. There's a

lot of trade smoke around. The Clippers now have gotten

a bunch of draft picks in these Kawhi Leonard and

Vitza subat Steels. Maybe they maybe they make a play

for a guy like Trey Murphy right. But the Clippers

I think undoubtedly need to land a like quality starting

forward in the next week. And we're talking about the

four position, but like the two, the three position is

is Derrek Jones Junior. I think he's probably a fine

enough fit for this team, especially if Woggler is going

to start next to Garland, because then Derrek Jones Junior

can do the point of attack defense stuff. But you know,

ultimately he's a thirty year old on a team that

is going nowhere, and he's a good thirty year old

who has a lot of value to a playoff team,

So I should he's twenty nine, he's turning thirty next season,

but he's a guy that I think really by the deadline,

should be moved in the last year of his deal,

providing value to a potential playoff team when the Clippers

are not that, I think they could get real value

back for him. So the forward positions are really wide

open for the Clippers right now, and unless they're going

to start Jordan Miller at small forward and Kobe Sanders

at power forward, they are going to have to bring

some bodies in, some real talent, and I think definitely

looking at that sort of like mid twenties range where

Darius Garland is and Watson and Murphy both fall into

that range.

Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take a quick break, come right back and

maybe evaluate the Kwi Linard deal a little bit more

after this.

Speaker 2: All right, we're back. So Rob, you were correct.

Speaker 3: We were not sure about the particulars on the draft compensation,

and we thought that the trade then was just, you know,

pretty good before finding out that it was great. And

shout out Kawhi able to bring back you know that

twenty thirty one and protective person.

Speaker 1: You're going to shout out to Lawrence Frank.

Speaker 3: Shout out, I mean, shout out to Lawrence Frank. He's

he's done a pretty good job post Paul George, all

things considered, we talked about it a little bit. You know,

I've had my gripes about Lawrence Frank, particularly drafting wise.

We just spent some time talking about Yannick Kobe and

you know, Jordan Miller. Are both these nice picks that

are now on friendly deals that are going to give

the Clippers some youth, you know, Woggler, we'll see. I

also agree, you know with Lucas. I think this is

the first time since say that I was this excited

about a single prospect going into Summer League, and I

will say, you know, Shae was so obviously a real

player in Summer League, and I really hope to see

that from Woggler. I have not felt that like you

know afterwards, and Jordan Miller had a great Summer League,

but still there were questions about his shot and what

he could do, and he had a real period when

teams scattered for him and he did not feel totally

like an NBA player. But Shae, immediately, I think, particularly

because of his ability with both his hands in Summer League,

could tell right away his feel for the game was there.

And everybody keeps talking about Woggler's feel and I want

to see that in Summer League. That's something I hope

really pops. Even though I don't know if he'll have

a great Summer League, but if he has that great

feel for the game, particularly, I want to see him

create for himself a bit and particularly work pick and

roll a bit. With an athlete like Miller, I'm hoping

you can see some of that in some league. Anyways,

back to Kawhi, you know, twenty thirty three Unprotected first

twenty thirty one unprotected first A twenty thirty second, twenty

thirty three second, the first round swamp which Lucas talked

about a little bit here what a deal for Kawhi Leonard.

Speaker 1: I do like how when Lucas was discussing the Clippers

starting lineup, he did not mention Brandon Ingram. I also

would like to forget that brand is on.

Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest, yeah, I'm I have been like

since that trade, I have been texting everyone I know

in every market, like, do you think the Clippers could

flip Ingram?

Speaker 2: Do you think the Clippers could flipping Room?

Speaker 4: And no, no, no, no was the answer I've gotten.

Some the like most optimistic that I've heard is like,

Brandon Ingram is the guy who is probably at his

best scoring empty calorie points on a bad team, and

that is what he will get to do in the

first half of the season. They might be able to

flip him at the deadline. But yeah, you're right, Rob,

I did he so Ingram probably will as the team

is currently constructed, probably would be the starting for But

I do think that those two guys that I mentioned,

and then the also Ruy Hatchie Mura and Jonathan Kaminga

are also sort of the free agent power forward two

are out there, Like the.

Speaker 1: Shiver went down my spine.

Speaker 4: Yeah, but I'm but those two, you know, Watson, and

then throw Murphy out there, because he's in a lot

of trade rumors, Like one of those four guys is

probably gonna end up on the Clippers this week. I mean,

if nothing else, the Clippers have put themselves in a

position where they're gonna end up with extra money under

the salary cap because they did not resign John Collins.

I will also say, just thrown it out there. If

the Clippers don't get any of those power forwards and

they just let John Collins walk instead of resigning him,

it's going to look pretty bad for much of next season.

I know that he is also a guy who probably

age timeline doesn't line up with his team anymore. He

may have wanted to go to a more competitive situation,

so maybe they didn't. Maybe retaining him wasn't as possible

as it seems. But yeah, I mean that I think

he's a guy that they are gonna miss if they

do not get like a Watson into that role.

Speaker 3: I'll say, man, I mean Jonathan Kaminga was a guy

not too long ago who was a real talking point

in Paul George deal's and it sounds like the Golden

State Warriors were not willing to give him up as

like the centerpiece of a Paul George deal. And you

know what, those years ago, I wanted Jonathan Kaminga. I

thought that he was a worthwhile swing. And you know what,

I still think that. I still think.

Speaker 1: Don't but but that price rob for a couple of

years for this team. I you can't have him in

Benedict Matherne if I agree? Yeah, yes, there have been

no reports about Mattherine. I would be a little surprised

if he was still on the Clippers. I like, I know,

like Jordan Miller and Kobe Sanders are not you know,

future tenth polls of this team, you know those guys

and Ingram and Woggler, like Chris Dunn is still around.

Where's the room for Matherne on this team?

Speaker 2: I I don't.

Speaker 1: I think it might be a sign and trade. Maybe

they just let him walk. Yeah, I think it's him

or Kaminga. Like if you bring in Kaminga, fine whatever.

I do not think he's good. I think there are

severe limitations to his game, but like, if nothing else,

that Key is a power forward sized player who can

play with some force and has some athleticism, can get

to the line some downhill scoring. I think him and

Mathurn on the same team would be completely redundant, even

though they're positionally a little different.

Speaker 4: So yeah, scenarios. Like to add, I guess Murphy could

be a trade, but like to to find the money

for one of those guys, presumably the Clippers will have

to renounce math Rooms qualifying offer anyway, because I when

you start like looking at at starting to get like,

you know, both at mid level exception money or below

for those guys, I think it's gonna be a little

tricky for the Kaminga and Hachi Murrit's here. I think

probably Kaminga is a guy who I would be less

excited about than Peyton Watson, but I'm also a little

hesitant on Peyton Watson and Kaminga. I think the Clippers

could probably use the cap room that they can have

this summer to make a like kind of balloon contract

for Kaminga that then has team friendly guarantee option stuff

in future years. And it's a chance to take a swing,

and I Kaminga is not. I know, he's not a

guy that you're high on. Robbie's a guy that I

am iffy on. But what I will say is the

talent is obviously there. He was a top ten pick.

He's been a double digit scorer in the NBA for

the last three years. He is still twenty three years old. Like,

if you can get that guy for basically free, for

like your extra cap room and you need someone to

play a bunch of forward minutes and you know you're

not gonna be good next year, and you can sort

of be the team that gambles on that upside. It's

not like I think if you took his name off

of his profile and just looked at everything else there

probably would be like a, yeah, that that's a reasonable

guy for the Clippers to take a chance on in

this free agency period.

Speaker 3: Brashaffa DIDs is against the NBA champions where he guarded

uh the X factor on that team.

Speaker 2: Cal Anthony Towns, I agree with.

Speaker 3: You a lot of your skepticism, rob but I think

that this is the kind of guy you live in

this transition period seeing if he can one, you know,

reach a bit of his upside, and two, if he does,

you can make him a role player on the next

iteration of a contending type team. I think that's exactly

the type of guy that Lawrence Frank will literally use

those phrases when he's talking about the presser for Jonathan

Kaminga and I get it for him more so than honestly,

maybe even more so than Mathurin.

Speaker 2: And I've the go ahead, Lucas.

Speaker 4: Raymond Green is still fregent and powerful also.

Speaker 3: Exactly, that's your upside athlete. We all why, Lucas, I'm

gonna give you the floor a little bit. How did

you feel with the Kawhi Leonard deal.

Speaker 4: Yeah, well, when you know you guys are talking about

the pick reporting when it was originally reported that the

two first round picks they gone from Toronto twenty twenty

seven and twenty twenty nine, my honest feeling was they

should not have made that trade. That they should have

just rolled it with Kawhi for another. Like, you know,

Toronto's twenty twenty seven first round pick after you've given

the Kahi Leonard is not a terribly valuable asset. The

twenty twenty nine first round pick is going to be

in range of his extension. Scotty Barnes is still young.

Like it, just it doesn't feel like you're really giving

yourself a shot at lottery picks with Toronto's twenty twenty

seven and twenty twenty nine. Twenty thirty one is far

enough away. None of us knows what the NBA is

going to look like in twenty thirty one. No, Scotty

Barnes might not be there anymore. Kawhi Leonard will probably

be retired twenty thirty three, even more so, right, I

think Scotty Barnes is going to be you know, he's

going to be in his thirties when these picks are

conveying to the Clippers, and he might be in his

thirties playing somewhere else when these picks are conveyed to

the Clippers. So yeah, immediately, the difference between the twenty

seven and twenty nine picks and the thirty one and

thirty three picks is the difference between a deal that

the Clippers should have walked away from and an absolute win,

like for the Clippers to turn Kawhi Leonard at this

stage with one year left on his contract. I've been

talking since the season ended, It's time they need to

turn that page. They needed to get value now while

they could, and they got real value. They got real

first round equity in distant years unprotected both that could.

You know, the Clippers are going to be in this

three year phase now where they still don't control their

own draft and they don't have superstars. They will try

to develop and acquire superstars during this time, but really

I think look at twenty thirty as the year when

the Clippers, you know, start to get drafts, their own

draft stuff back, and then to have that plus Toronto stuff.

If they hold on to those picks that long, really

gives you the chance to build something. But also it

gives the Clippers flexibility to start trading picks to go

get guys that they want to build the team around.

Speaker 2: Keaton Woggler.

Speaker 4: I would probably, I would prefer to be a little

patient here. I want to know who Keaton Woggler is

in the NBA before you start making big moves to

acquire talent now, because I think the Clippers are like

miles away from competitive with their current roster.

Speaker 2: And.

Speaker 4: I want to see if Keaton Woggler has a great

year next season and the Clippers like.

Speaker 2: Steal the eight seed somehow. Then we're ready to start putting.

Speaker 4: Some chips into the table and getting some talent to

put around him, and thinking, you know, who's the new

center that we need, and what complimentary wing do we

need and all of that and his garland the right

guy next to Woggler long term, and all these questions

are things that you can ask once Keaton Woggler gets

on the floor and performs at a level that warrants

building the team around him. Yeah, I really hesitant to

push chips into the table when we have no clue

who this guy is at the NBA level. Yet, I

think it's a great year for patients for the Clippers,

a great year to let Yani get healthy, see what

you have with him, Let Woggler run out his rookie year,

and see how he starts and eat. He could have

a mediocre rookie year and still end up being a

superstar player long term. He's nineteen, he's a point guard.

Speaker 2: It happens.

Speaker 4: But the Clippers don't need to be in a rush

right now. There's nowhere to rush towards. There's no way

for them to leverage the assets that they have into

contention in the short term, So sit on them, keep

accumulating them, learn about the players that you have in

the program right now, and let them develop. And then

I think probably if things start looking really good, like

let's say you gamble on a Watson or a kaminga, Well,

if Woggler looks really good and Watson or Comingo look

really good and Yon it comes back healthy and takes

the starting job, now you're starting to think, Okay, can

we go get another big piece using this draft capital

that we have to really have a solid team. But

the Clippers are still just several steps away from really

being in a position to be buyers in my opinion.

Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take a quick break, Robo and hear your

take after this. All right, we're back. Where were you

gonna say?

Speaker 2: Yes?

Speaker 1: I think it depends on how the Clippers you Darius

Garland and I think we all are maybe a tad

skeptical in terms of him being like a true franchise player,

Like he's made two All Star teams, he's never made

All NBA. He's heading into his late twenties, he's had

some injury issues. He's a smaller guard who plays a

lot based on quickness. Those guys generally do not age

super great, and I think the Tray Murphy like rumors,

I don't necessarily believe them, and I do think like

based on the current asking price by the Pelicans, which

seems to be three first round picks, I think the

Clippers would be absolutely insane to make that trade for

Trey Murphy, who's never sniffed an All Star game and

is a guy who seems like it will be a

good starter for a while but probably never a star.

And I just don't think you trade three first round

picks in today's NBA for that type of player unless

you feel like you're one piece away. The Magic did

that with Desmond bain has not worked out so far.

Desmond baind also I think, better than Trey Murphy. The

Knicks made that deal with Michael Bridges, again, also a

better player than Trey Murphy, and that did work because

they were a real playoff team and the Magic, even

though they had a pretty disappointing year, again also like

an actual playoff team with youngish All star talent. So yeah,

like I mean to me, the Trey Murphy thing, I

don't think it makes sense. I would not do that trade.

It only makes sense if the Clippers view Darius Garland

as the guy and Keaton Woggler maybe not of secondary importance,

but like will this guy develop into the guy? Will

he be a supporting piece to Garland, etc. And we

just don't know how highly the Clippers view Garland. And

to me, that's kind of the missing piece to all this,

you know, because all the reporting is that they really

like him, they view him as the guy. Again, that

could be very much just pr or spin to boost

his trade value, whatever the case may be. But something

we've talked about in our own you know, Chaps, is

how little the NBA values small guards who are not

good defensively. You know, we've seen Trey Young, who is

a better player than Darius Garland, get dumped for basically

no value. John Morant, who has had a really bad

couple of years but like at his peak, was better

than Darius Garland also get dumped for no value, maybe

negative value. Honestly decent guards, like you know, backup guards,

like a Colin Sexon. I mean, Darius Garland much better

than him, but like Colin Sexton got a two year,

you know, nineteen million dollar deal, And for me, Simons, Yeah,

two year, twelve million, and as Simon's is better than Sexton,

maybe Simon should Fire's agent. But like, like how much

trade value does Darius Garland have. I don't think that much, So,

like I think that's kind of the piece we don't know.

But to me, like, I just don't think the Trey

Murphy trade unless you can get him for like two

first round picks, and maybe not even two good first

round picks, maybe you consider it, but like I wouldn't

even trade too good first for him because I just

don't think he's that level of player. And as you said, Lucas,

I don't think this team is close to competit enough

to push in like real assets for this iteration of

the team. So I'm in full agreement. Like I'm not

really even a big Peyton Watson fan, but like, if

you sign him to a three year, like eighty million

dollar deal, chances are won't bite the Clippers that much

because chances are they're not going to be good enough

as a team for a bad contract to really weigh

them down in the next three years, and there is

a swing it upside again. Even though like I really

am not a fan of Kaminga. I would be fine

with a two or three year deal for him at

a reasonably high salary because the Clippers can afford to

take swings and they need like a forward. Really, even

though like you think he's a good fit in terms

of like actual on core because of the shooting, he's

like in his late twenties, he might even be early

thirties at this point, I don't see much a point

in signing him if it's not like a one year

maybe a two year like team friendly deal. So yeah,

like I think taking stabs on guys in their early

to mid twenties is good, giving up real value for them,

like for Tree Murphy, I don't think makes sense unless again,

the Clippers are convinced Darius Garland as the guy, and

I would be very skeptical of that, but you know,

who knows.

Speaker 3: They'd be so silly to be convinced that even just

from what we saw small sample size and how he

kind of wore down a little bit even in even

in the playing game, he was really targeted, couldn't stay

on the court because of his the fact that he

was targeted defensively over and over again. Had a good

box score, but was kind of given it all back.

Speaker 2: Defensively. I agree with.

Speaker 3: You Rob on this, Like I think if you're gonna

get Trey Murphy, like Trey Murphy and John Collins are

kind of ready made. We know who they are, late

twenties guys, last piece on a maybe contender type of team.

Speaker 4: You mean when you say late twenties, did you mean Ruby?

Speaker 2: How old is Trey?

Speaker 4: Like?

Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I mean I think I think Trey.

I think Trey has more like upside, But I do

think we know to a degree who Trey Murphy, who

trained Murphy is on like a contending team. These are

the kind of players that you add to like push

you over the edge, like as a role as a very.

Speaker 2: Good role player. Even Collins.

Speaker 3: I might be giving him a little bit too much credit,

but still, if you let a guy like Collins walk

like you might as well use that space for an

upside guy and not a guy you kind of know

who he is. Same thing with Ruby and Ruby I

think we know he's like a pretty decently high you know,

could be a high level role player on a contender

like he was with the Lakers when he was making

all his threes. And why would the Clippers invest with

that kind of money and a guy like that invest

with draft equity for a guy like Trey, I just

don't think it's aligned with the moves they've been making.

You don't want to live in that middle purgatory era

and give away draft picks to be like a play

a higher play in team.

Speaker 2: I don't know.

Speaker 3: Doesn't feel like the move to me, doesn't feel consistent

with what they could use, which I think consistently you

would for Watson or Kaminga. Honestly, those are the guys really.

To me, I don't know. I don't see much upside

left in his game. Maybe he feels like he has that,

but I see upside, and Watson I see upside and cominga.

I also see big downfalls in both of them.

Speaker 2: COMINGA.

Speaker 3: You could be giving money to this guy that was

player of the month, didn't play many games, couldn't stay healthy,

missed the playoffs. You know, Kaminga, we all, we know

all about Steve Kurr not playing him because it didn't

feel like a winning player, had a good playoff series.

But that team doesn't want to it doesn't seem eager

to keep him. There are lots of question marks on

those guys. But I think giving those guys the space

to see if they can tap into their upside is good. Really,

I don't feel like has much upside, and Trey, I

think is just going to be a lot of equity

to kind of get him. I rather would keep it

like you both have been kind of mentioning Summerlely's coming up,

Rob excited about Summer League. Who are you looking at

for Summer League? Maybe we'll have an episode before kind

of detailing a bit of Summer League guys and our

excitement for them. I'm excited. I'm close. I was close

to going to Vegas, but I'm not sure if I'm

going to. Uh yeah, I think I'll just happily watch

it at home.

Speaker 1: It's so much more expensive than you used to be.

To sound like an old person, it's Vegas in general.

And I don't even like Vegas, but like Summer League,

Vegas isn't is a fun interesting time, but like Vegas

is so much more expensive than it was like seven

years ago, pre pre pandemic, and it's so hot and miserable,

and I, yeah, I if I loved Closer, I would

justify going, But going across the country for it is

just not definitely not worth it. I mean, I think

just it's it's extremely basic. The only guy who really

truly matters to me is how Woggler looks. Like if

Baba Miller looks great, amazing, if Nick Martinelli looks great, awesome.

Cam Christie is kind of the guy who I think

I'm writing an article for. We actually don't have the

full roster yet. I'm sure that will be dropped tomorrow.

I think Cam Christi is the guy for whom it

is most important, like not for Clippers fans, but in

terms of like which player doesn't matter most for it's

Christie because his guarantee date was pushed back until after

summer league. If he looks great, the Clippers will probably

keep him as like a depth, like again shot guy.

If he does not look very good, they might just

cut him, and you know, they wouldn't eat anything for it. It

would open up a roster spot. They might cut him regardless,

but you know it could help get him a deal

with another team. So like he's a guy who like

this is his third summer league. He's you know, hasn't

played a ton in the NBA, but he's had like

NBA practices and conditioning and nutrition and all that sort

of stuff, Like he should be quite good at Summer League,

and if he's not, that will be kind of a

red flag. But yeah, wagg literally, you know, I really

just want like one great game. Like you know, in

summer League, it's a small, single size. The shops might

not fall, there might be some ugly moments. These guys

haven't practiced together much. Can he have like one game

where like it just looks like he's really running the

team and control the separation or creation pops, that playmaking pops,

whatever the case may be. Can you give me like

one game where it's like really exciting. If not, it's

still fine. It's like, you know, it's a rookie point

guard who's a teenagers. It's fine if he doesn't look amazing,

But yeah, just rooting for one game and outside of that,

like you know, everything else is kind of just gravy.

Speaker 2: With this.

Speaker 1: The roster is like really mostly full. Like I you know,

maybe they make trades, maybe they trade Dune or Jones

or whoever flip ingram and create more spots, but like

they really only have like a couple of roster spots.

So like, you know, they do have two way spots open,

assuming Nick Martinelli gets one. Maybe these you know guys

are competing for a two way spot. But like, I'm

really just watching Gualkler until a much much lesser extent,

you know, Boba Miller and Cam Christy.

Speaker 3: Yeah, Martinelli, I definitely I'm guilty of watching a bunch

of highlights of a guy who is a high scorer

who also I understand why he was drafted so late,

but it would be fun to see him kind of

do a lot of his checks in summer league. Lucas,

I mean, you've talked a little bit about summer league.

We're gonna be talking more about summer league. I am

excited for Wiggler invested in this team a bit as

far as the summer league team goes.

Speaker 2: I can, I like throw a curveball out there, please?

Would it?

Speaker 4: What would it? What would it look like to ask

Grady Dick to come to summer league? And I mean

he's a guy who got worked out of Toronto's rotation,

He's thrown in a salary filler in the Kawhi trade.

I think he's a guy who could potentially be like

a bounce back candidate. He's still only twenty two. He

was much better in the twenty four to twenty five

season than he was this past season. But also, I mean,

I think when we're talking about the Clippers, like trying

to create cap room to make an offer sheet for

a guy like Peyton Watson and Grady Dick makes seven

million dollars season if he's not going to be a

rotation guy, if he's not a guy they're interested in

long term, if he really was just the money throw in,

they could wave and stretch his salary to create like

over four million dollars in additional space to work the

angles they want to work. They could also do that

with Cam Christy has a non guaranteed deal worth almost

three million dollars. I think that they could release him

and that would allow them to create extra wiggle room

from that perspective as well. Two point three million dollars

for Cam Christy. So yeah, I almost wonder like it

doesn't feel like there's necessarily space for both Grady Dick

and Cam Christy.

Speaker 2: On this team, like very very similar. You know, a.

Speaker 4: Developmental shooter, backup guard wing type who isn't really good

enough to be in the ten man right now, maybe

they do carry both of them, But yeah, I think

that's that's something to look at for too. I don't know,

rupt do you have any I don't really have like

a great read on Grady Dick. I know he had

a better season the previous year and that he ended

up kind of on the fringes and eventually out of

Toronto's rotation.

Speaker 1: I know rappers like Raptors, people who I follow think

that there's something in there suck. That is true, and

Raptors fans are notoriously guilty about that. They do seem

to think that there's something in there like that there's

some like slashing off ball, like secondary tertiary kind of

stuff that like he could still bring. I'm a little skeptical.

I didn't particularly like him as a prospect, and he

really has been not very good in the NBA. I

think he's been just good enough and shown just enough

that like I would probably if it's between him or Christie,

I'd probably take Greedy Dick just because he's played a

lot more and like he has some more like NBA

proven skills came Christie's younger, and because he hasn't played much,

it's more of a mystery box. But yeah, I mean

if you add in those guys, I mean, I don't

think the Clippers are making big decisions based on them.

But if you have those guys on top of Miller

and Sanders and Ingram and Woggler and Garland, it's like again,

like I just don't know how Mathurn fits onto this

team unless maybe again some of these guys are flipped

or moved in other deals. But like, the Clippers are

just very very guard and small wing. Have you right now?

Grady Dick, I mean, he was a wattery pick. This

is his fourth season. I don't think he'll play in

some Like I don't think it would be crazy for

the Clippers to ask him to, but like I don't

I don't think he'll play there.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's a

crazy ass Objectively speaking, I mean it feels a bit reasonable.

These players all have their egos. Grady Dick, of course,

had a good stretch of play a couple of seasons

ago in the NBA, offensively at least. But I think

it's a great question, like when thinking about the future

of this team, you know, Cam Chrissy or Grady Dick

is sort of a question here because they're so similar.

I think Cam is trying to be, you know, seen

as a point of attack guy. They've given him a

lot of point of attack reps defensively, just like his brother,

and he at least has that going for him as

being the real classic three and D type. And I

do think Cam Chrissy is going to be an NBA player.

It's just a matter if it's going to be here

or for another team, if he needs another year to

find it. You know, Grady Dick, I don't know, you know,

I definitely watched him a bit a few years ago

when he was the runner type that seemed like it

just seemed like that would have a role. And he's

a bigger body than I realized when we when we

brought him in, and feels like he would be a

guy that positionally defensively you could at least get away

with because he's a bigger body, and you know, he's

a kind of motion guy that if TYLERU is really

talking about pace and kind of moving, that sort of

runner would be important for an offense that way too,

And you would imagine he would create a lot of

that Paul George, you know, tertiary stuff that we saw

the Clippers running with George back when, and just having

a guy capable of doing that on the NBA level,

just feel it was like a lot of things that

would make sense. But of course he was out of

the rotation last year. He wasn't in the playoff rotation

last year. Does he just need a season to get

it back. We'll see. I think this is a huge

year for him, and I think the Clippers will see

what he's got left in those cobwebs, if he's a

guy that he could really plan for in the coming

years or not.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting to me, But yeah.

Speaker 4: I think they're I mean, the reason I asked about

about Dick in Summer League is because I'm like, looking

at the roster, I'm looking at the cap sheit. I'm

kind of looking at him as I'm wondering, is he

a cut candidate? And I think there is some like

you know, he's he's twenty two, and there's obviously some

upside there. I'm not saying that they should cut him,

but I think when you when you look at the

roster from a neutral lens and you look at that

contract and you look at them trying to create cap

room to go after a guy like Watson. You know,

do you want to miss out on Peyton Watson because

you're paying Grady Dick seven million dollars to be a

third stringer next year? Are you planning on playing him

next year? Does he going to have an opportunity to

compete for minutes? I think are you bringing Benedict Matherin

back is a huge question as a part of that

equation for Dick as well. So but of course in

a scenario where you got Watson, you wouldn't be bringing

mather In back, so then maybe Dick would be the

backup shooting guard. But regardless, you know, I think there's

a lot in the mix there. I don't think we

will see him a summer weeks, So sorry if that

gave anyone a false hope, But yeah, there's I just

wanted to talk about him for a little bit because

I think he's an interesting piece of this trying to

figure out like is he is he viewed as an

asset that the team wants to take an upside swing

on or was he just salary filler? Do they think

he's in the rotation next year?

Speaker 2: I'm I would like to.

Speaker 4: Sort of be a fly on the wall on some

Grady Dick conversations in the Clippers front office and try

to understand where what they're thinking with that young player

that they've acquired.

Speaker 3: Yeah, any any closing thoughts, Rob before we wrap this

one up.

Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of just pure roster crunch, I know

Lucas mentioned trading Derek Jhonesior. I would honestly see and

I like Derek Jones Junior. He's been a good Clipper,

he's a good player. He's wasted on this team, and

maybe the Clippers are doing this. I would try to

see if you could trade him this summer. Maybe you

get more fro him at the deadline when a you know,

contending team you know, maybe not Panics but really needs

like that last piece or just needs an upgrade on

the wing or something, and you're able to get more.

But like, I think he could probably get some decent

stuff for him now. And like again, if you're talking

about a roster crunch, like he's the guy who again

is a good NBA player, is a good you know,

rotation spot on like a contending team. The Clippers are

not close to that, and like he's much It's extremely

unlikely Cam Christio Grady Dick will ever be as good

as Derek Jones. Honestly, it's unlikely Benedict Mathern will be

as good as Derek Jones. But like for this particular roster,

like I'd want as many upside bets as possible kind

of stored. And like again, if you're talking just purely

like roster fit, like they're a little bit different, especially

on offense, but like Chris Dunn is cheaper and has

less value to other teams, and like, if you just

need a point of attack defender to play twenty five minutes,

like I think you can kind of just use Chris

Dunn there. So I would be trying to trade Derek Jones.

And I do wonder again if you flip them just

to a team with space that opens up more space,

maybe you bring a forward back from a team that's

as a little bit you know, you know, just fix

each other's roster imbalance issues. So yeah, that's something I

will keep an eye on, in addition to maybe some

of the free agents, because I do think he doesn't

really make sense on this roster, and that would ease

the roster crunch a little.

Speaker 3: Bit, and he's definitely their most desirable asset right now,

I would.

Speaker 1: Say, outside of Walkler obviously, who they're not traded.

Speaker 4: H yeah, yeah, he's Derek John Junior is a guy

again has been a good Clipper. I really like him

since the season ended, very clearly a guy that they

should be moving on for a guy who has real

value to a playoff team rotation. I thought that they

could potentially get like a late first in this year's

draft for him. I was really hoping to see a

draft day trade of Derek Jones Junior. Not that I

like want him gone right, but I think everyone hopefully

understands the gist here of he's like in his prime,

ready to be a great role player on a good

playoff team and the Clippers are going to be wallowing

a little lower down for a while, and maybe he

can be the adult in the room and help the

defense out Right now, he certainly seems to be like

you know, Rob corrected me earlier that him and Ingram

would be the starting forwards, but like god, Darius Garland

and then either Chris Dunn or Woggler and then Jones,

Ingram Brook Lopez, Like I don't know if that team

wins thirty games. So I think the Clippers are in

a position where like, if you get a Peyton Watson,

then you absolutely move on from a Derek Jones junior,

especially if you can get value for him. And I

think that probably is what that would be the type

of move I would think that would push the Clippers

maybe back towards like if they have some good you know,

woggler as good as a rookie, and you know, they

don't lose one of their key players for the whole

season and things like that, maybe they could start scrapping

towards that five hundred mark and that play in tournament.

Speaker 2: Again.

Speaker 4: I also will say, just very quickly because of the

new tanking incentivization structure, where teams outside of the play

in tournament, like the team that finishes, you know with

like the ninth worst record in the league will have

as like tied for the best lottery odds. I do

think we will see a lot of teams that own

their own first round picks, you know, politely ducking out

of the play in tournament because they would rather have

the lottery odds from being seventh or eighth or ninth

worst than being stuck in the play in tournament. So

I think that may may have actually made the road

to the play in tournament a little easier for the

Clippers this lottery reform. But they still have to be

competitive and win enough games to be in the conversation

when you get to February. And I think even a

guy like Hatchi Mura, who I don't like particularly as

a player, and I don't think is long term fit

for this team, he could be a guy who adds

a few wins to your regular season compared to the

other rotation options that you have, maybe gets you into

the play and tournament. Maybe means you're sending a worst

pick to Oklahoma Siddy, you know the Clippers. That's the

spot the Clippers are in right now.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to see what they do with it.

I'm just excited that the Clippers are finally moved on

from this era, have some future to look forward to.

It's probably going to be a lean year or two,

but I hope that they are able to acquire some

more upside to make it something worth looking forward to.

And they could be scrappy, you know, maybe they could

have a scrappy Shaye type of year next year. I

think that's the upside hope with this team. Enough that

a superstar looks at their team and is angry and

thinks twice about maybe coming to a sunny state and

hanging out with the Clippers. That'll do it for this

episode of the Objttion on the podcast, leave us a

nice five star review. Whatever platformance is on, five stars

five stars really helps. Some nice words too, We'll read

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