532: Economic Warfare. The Power of Business In America. Sam Rogers, Joe Cruz, Steve Simar.

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Three men, Sam, Joe, and Steve, from different backgrounds come together to build a company from scratch—through risk, setbacks, and relentless execution. This episode breaks down what it really takes to start and grow a business, the power of small business in America, and the mindset required to win.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is Jocco podcast number 532, and I talk often about obviously about the military and what the military does and the strength of the military, but there is another strength and another force in the world that is equally if not

[SPEAKER_02]: even more important and stronger and that is economic force and one of the most important type of economic force in the world is Americans and one of the most important economic forces in America is small businesses, small businesses are hugely impactful to the economy in America, they're what drive the economy in America,

[SPEAKER_02]: which brings us to our guests for today, three gentlemen from vastly different backgrounds who have built and are continually to grow an American company.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this company is called symmetry sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I met these guys as we were building out the new gym here at Victory MMA, which we're sitting right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: The new gym at Victory MMA, we had a fire, which incidentally

[SPEAKER_02]: So we didn't want to get that old sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wanted a brand new sauna, and we searched around to find Who is making the best saunas in the in the country and really in my opinion the best saunas in the world and we ended up with Symmetry sauna and so Once we brought them in and I saw what they were doing building business creating jobs and basically getting after it Which is a huge part of what I like

[SPEAKER_02]: So Joe Cruz, Sam Rogers, and Steve Seymour, the leaders of symmetry sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining us, fellas.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sauna looks good, doesn't it?

[SPEAKER_02]: It looks really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sauna is a beautiful sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is what you guys do.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's built these amazing custom saunas in any of your expanding right now and doing even more than that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But really impressed with what you guys did here, both the men's sauna and the women's sauna is actually two saunas here That you guys built and they're both what's up with the salt walls.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's that all about?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you want to go there is there are health benefits to Himalayan sea salt when it ionizes at heat good respiratory benefit, but we're always honest with our clients

[SPEAKER_04]: They're beautiful.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're more than anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's aesthetics and it and here's kind of the philosophy is why do we build such beautiful Sonas?

[SPEAKER_04]: Because people will use a more beautiful Sonan much more often than they'll use that shabby Cedar box in the backyard.

[SPEAKER_04]: So if we build it beautiful people want to go in it every day and that's the whole goal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no They that's all walls.

[SPEAKER_02]: They definitely what they got like a like a warm glow to the right because they're backlit and Yeah, they're very inviting

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's it right there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what do you get some kind of something you want to give me?

[SPEAKER_04]: Was I want to give you a show?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm a father, three kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I've got this, the kid in the middle, 10-year-old girl, Jiu Jitsu Killer.

[SPEAKER_04]: But she also is kind of an old soul.

[SPEAKER_04]: She likes to sew and crochet.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she, the night before I flew down here, she came running out, dad, dad, dad.

[SPEAKER_04]: I made something for Jaco.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do you promise to give it to him?

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, what is it?

[SPEAKER_04]: So she showed me, and I was like, oh, I think Jaco was going to love that.

[SPEAKER_04]: So this is for my daughter, Talia.

[SPEAKER_04]: She crocheted you a chicken, a chicken, a chicken, a chicken, it's a beautiful chicken.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a little bit of a heart-shaped chicken.

[SPEAKER_04]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: What's her name?

[SPEAKER_04]: Her name's Talia.

[SPEAKER_02]: Talia.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is definitely the coolest chicken that I've ever owned.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Black eyes.

[SPEAKER_02]: What does this pink little... That's the colon.

[SPEAKER_02]: Colonic on the head.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's an amazing piece of, you know, on a... She's a chicken.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a chicken.

[SPEAKER_02]: But let's face it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like it may have been...

[SPEAKER_02]: the forefathers of the chicken nugget.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just think it's good for the chicken nugget.

[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you very much, Talia, appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_02]: This will stay with me for a long time.

[SPEAKER_02]: She'll be stoked.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will have to protect it from my dog.

[SPEAKER_02]: My dog will definitely think that this chicken is amazing looking and trying to eat it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll keep it safe, Talia.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so let's get a little bit a little bit of background from you guys just quickly like how you guys grew up.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then we'll kind of talk about how you guys got linked up.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are you guys going to start?

[SPEAKER_02]: Who goes first?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll start.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's hear it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I grew up a small white boy in Montana, we're on Montana, outside of Great Falls.

[SPEAKER_04]: About 100 acres of land and just a good life.

[SPEAKER_04]: Two sisters, mom and dad, all this land horses.

[SPEAKER_04]: I basically grew up on a horse with a 22 rifle and a fishing pole, just like couple very fined and I'll tell one quick story, I told my dad I would tell on here.

[SPEAKER_04]: He joined the Navy and when he went to the naval recruiting, he said, if I sign up.

[SPEAKER_04]: Can I be a frogman?

[SPEAKER_04]: And so this was before Navy Seals, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And the recruiter said, if you can make it through the training, you can be a frogman.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he signed on the dotted line at 17.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it was like a three or two or so he came out here actually into training in Coronado.

[SPEAKER_04]: But as soon as they saw him, they were like, you can't be a frogman.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, they promised me I'd get a shot.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they said, no, you're near-sighted.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can't be a frogman.

[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, he became a, he worked on the radios for blue angels and the fighter jets.

[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, he wanted you to, you wanted to know that.

[SPEAKER_04]: He served in the Navy, and he wanted to be a frogman.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, so then, somehow, I'll tell the real quick story.

[SPEAKER_04]: Somehow, I was always in love with sports.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of all I cared about, and my first sport was basketball.

[SPEAKER_04]: But they didn't have men's volleyball where I came from.

[SPEAKER_04]: But when I got into college, I started playing volleyball.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I got very addicted to this thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Eventually moved to San Diego to try to play professional beach volleyball.

[SPEAKER_04]: And dabbled in that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I called myself a bottom feeder.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, played a lot of professional tournaments.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I spent way more money than I ever earned.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it was a good experience.

[SPEAKER_04]: It gave me a lot of confidence in life that if you just put your mind to something, you can probably do go a lot farther than you think you could.

[SPEAKER_04]: and so hold on to that experience and in business and everything else we do and have sorted but come delusional from that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I kind of feel like if you decide to do it and determine I'm just going to do it and won't be stopped it's pretty amazing what can happen.

[SPEAKER_04]: So in that end you know met these guys along the way and here we are.

[SPEAKER_02]: How are you been feet?

[SPEAKER_02]: How are you feeding your family before symmetry?

[SPEAKER_02]: What did you for work?

[SPEAKER_04]: So I started owned and operated a residential painting company here in San Diego for 17 years and that company still going I don't have much to do with the day to day anymore, but it's still going and did that and then

[SPEAKER_04]: What else?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the other thing people might be interested or not is, you know, bow hunting, bow hunting is another driving force in my life as every September chasing elk in the mountains of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, wherever I end up, and that's a huge one for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the addiction, right there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good one.

[SPEAKER_02]: So awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what about you, Steve?

[SPEAKER_03]: I grew up at West Point in New York.

[SPEAKER_03]: My dad was a graduate and I came back as a football coach.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I grew up as the chord boy on the sideline.

[SPEAKER_03]: And my dad told me if I went to West Point he'd buy me a car.

[SPEAKER_03]: but I had to go skiing so I went to Montana State University and uh... skied a lot and uh... from there when it's a youth ministry i met sand plane volleyball in Montana in the nineties there's people playing volleyball in Montana in the grass there's not maybe sand there but in the sand was the in the man nineties there was about

[SPEAKER_04]: 30 guys in Montana who are unbelievable volleyball players from all over the world.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was it was a pretty good scene I was not one of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was good.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a bottom feeder.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just played my khaki shorts Go at me to cac attack now So I moved San Diego not long after Sam we got to be roommates and buddy.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was a

[SPEAKER_03]: freelance photo assistant doing commercial photography and really chasing the dream of skydiving.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was a competitive skydiver, but like else and I did that for a long time, started building my own photography business, long story short.

[SPEAKER_03]: I drove up to visit Sam and the family in Idaho and then they shut down California behind me.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so I said I guess I live here now.

[SPEAKER_03]: So

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, complete change in life going from commercial photography to, uh, we started a paint company up there when the market was going crazy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, uh, Joe here kind of talked us into the song industry.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, that's been amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, we started, I mean, like, how symmetry started, I was me designing and building SONUS, you know, and, uh, those guys building the business.

[SPEAKER_02]: How'd you get in the mix, Joe?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I grew up in Los Angeles and didn't have much background or sports or anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Stop going to school about 10th grade and you know, single mom growing up, giving her best and a bunch of siblings and from there, my girlfriend got pregnant, was like, oh, how old were you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Boom.

[SPEAKER_00]: 18.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was 17, 18, something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then yeah sit it down and kind of had that road in front of me it's gonna be like my dad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just gonna walk away and throw it in or am I gonna grind it out and for some reason I decided to grind it out so yeah we ended up uh we're in Los Angeles move to San Diego start to do and uh jump in banking just entry level whatever you know paper

[SPEAKER_00]: file pushing minimum wage, close to minimum wage, and then started climbing up the ladder and the supervisor department had sales and sales is where I found my love, was able to start managing and yeah, I just all really started developing for me visually.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was very easy I didn't understand what the complexities were in business, so just too naive to know and from

[SPEAKER_00]: Looking for something, how long are you staying baking for?

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably, as long as I was in San Diego, like nine, ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so in there for a while, a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: We pioneered a bank right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've climbed up Mesa called FNBA First National Bank Arizona.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really cool, a lot of fun, a lot of good memories.

[SPEAKER_00]: But my mentor, Jim Patterson, you know, he was a cop, ex-cop from Kentucky, and he took me under his wing.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's called me as Brown Hope, because of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're selling guys all the other sales guys who are you know super ambitious and a lot of them We're already you know fairly well to do and you saw this guy coming up from nothing Took me under his wing and said dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm rooting for you go out there kick ass and yeah Man, I just started you know I became top performer and doing my thing and then when I you know Everything's shaked up in

[SPEAKER_00]: In that banking industry, I went to Sona, my buddy Logan, who became a mentor, and he still in Sona, Logan Ross out in Los Angeles, super cool guy, and he mentored me, brought me in, and I just hit the ground.

[SPEAKER_02]: We hit the ground.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sona industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: into the sauna industry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like sales are doing well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just sales.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was, you know, sales at that point in banking.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was just crushing it in sales.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I knew I had this thing, whether it was just the street vision, street level from all the crap I've been through growing up and the desire and the hunger to be awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, running a young family, a wife at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: two sons and just like, okay, I got a grind.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to figure out how to not, you know, be like the rest of my family on the system or cheating the system and just geto and, you know, and, and yeah, just kept an elevated mindset.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you, where do you think you got that elevated mindset?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you know my mom was fairly crazy in a good way You know she did her best and she was a discipline her.

[SPEAKER_00]: She boxed for a lot of years Like so she would whip my ass and all the way up until I'm not joking man like punch me in the face Crazy gang story if you guys want to hear it real quick So I was from a LA Street gang for 24 hours

[SPEAKER_00]: I was living in a honey tempark where they say honey tempark where it's crazy after dark and I was actually in high school Probably ninth grade and you know retro was in so I wasn't even like a gangster looking guy I was like in bell bottoms and this and that I'm not joking and my but my whole family was like from street gangs And so I was at high school and honey tempark and they're like hey, aren't you so-and-so's nephew from you know this gang and I'm like yeah

[SPEAKER_00]: And they they started beating me up in the bathroom, right, which they called jumping and I'm not joking not jumping, you know, they called jumping in and So I got jumped in and when they picked me up and like, all right, you're from I don't even say they're from X gang now and like yeah Yeah, I am so I've I'd be long, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like okay cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I went home and all the sudden like within 24 hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I might have shaved my head

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we're the baggy pants.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my mom, though.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my mom, my my grandma's a gang member, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So my mom was also a gang member ex gang member, you know, turned to Jesus and changed her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: But once you're a gang member, like you're always kind of a gang member, you always have that mentality.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she ended up finding out, you know, or she found out that I got jumped into a gang.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, oh, you're not going to because it's her ex gang that they jumped me in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're not going down that road.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I'll kick your ass like you're going to get jumped out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's within 24 hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: She like walked me to the park in Huntington Park like in a bunch of gangsters or sitting on the table and they're like, well, where are you from?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or no, she said, I want my son out of the gang.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so and so from ex gang and my mom's ex gang.

[SPEAKER_00]: Long story sure they're all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just tell him to deny that he's from the gang and he's out We don't have to jump him out poor kids already got beat up and you know eight hours ago So um, so my mom turns to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's like all right Joe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're gang you from like and I threw the gang second I totally the name of the gang, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she just started beating the crap out of me, like punching me in the face.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was so bad, even the gangsters were like, okay, stop, I need them alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Leave them alone, we'll jump them out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then they, like, moved my mom inside and three of them came and beat the hell out of me for a couple of minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I was out of the street gang.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, maybe that helped with the, you know, some of the grit that I have.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now, man, I just, I don't know, I never wanted to be like,

[SPEAKER_00]: like yeah like the people before me who I just felt like you know we're always elusive taking advantage of the system not being honest not being hard workers lazy all this stuff and it was you know my community of you know unfortunately a lot of the Hispanic you know community they're just such hard workers like and they grind and I did see that a lot I just never saw them getting ahead and business for some reason right whatever it was right they're always working for someone

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to work for anyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew that for a very long time since I dropped out of high school in 10th grade, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I knew I don't want to work for anyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: So ended up my girl, you know, married her right away, proposed her her kind of telling her parent, Hey, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got her pregnant, but I'm going to marry this girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: How much do you spend on her ring?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't even know if I got rid of another dude, that's that's low.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was, yeah, I mean, no money.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was 20, I mean, it would be married 26 years, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so found my way out of, you know, into the out of banking in Tassana, and then it just, I mean, it was right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was already able to consult people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was right helping people talk about health benefits.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know much, probably three days being in the song industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was already selling Tana.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's because I care like I have this passion for human beings to be better, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's something and there's a light inside of every human being that, you know, no matter how dim it is, like there's a way to, um, yeah, to extract it, right, to make it bright.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I felt so on.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was doing for people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very, I spoke with conviction.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was very natural.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I got really good at what I was doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll end it with this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my wife and I, you know, after Banking and Intasana, like there's more than enough money, like we grew up super poor, we grew up with nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I did tell my wife, I'm like, man, if this is all lifehouse to offer, I don't know, I don't know if we're gonna last in our marriage, I don't really, you know, shiny stuff and Bank accounts and like none of that's bringing this kind of intrinsic value that I'm seeking out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we went to a therapist together and she said, if you want to fill this deep meaningful fulfillment, have this lasting impact in your life, do something, do something together that's going to change the world without you getting any money or accolades or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And my wife and I love, you know, we love children and we're good pretty good parents, you know, we're not perfect and so we're like, dude, let's adopt some kids, let's adopt some kids, let's like change somebody's world like hands on and not just any kids, like let's get the kids that are like

[SPEAKER_00]: Throne, not thrown in the trash, but nobody wants like the ones born and addicted to drugs and this and that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we ended up, yeah, getting, you know, going through all the trainings getting a call from getting a call from LA County saying, hey, we got one for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: How long did that process take?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so about a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: took about a year, you know, we had to be diligent in the classes, but it took a year and then, you know, they, we went and met our daughter Sage and she was born addicted to method fedemines.

[SPEAKER_00]: But right when we saw her, it was so beautiful, held her and I just knew like, yeah, she's mine, she's ours.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know, took her home and on her adoption party, after a year,

[SPEAKER_00]: We got a call from the social work because we told them we can only have one like we have no space.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have nothing else, you know, we can do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We only have a five-seater car and they ended up calling us on her adoption party saying, hey, birth mom had another one.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and we knew the family that if we didn't take her, the family was going to, she was going to go to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I looked at my wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: My wife's crying.

[SPEAKER_00]: She said, you know, I can't tell them no, you're going to have to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, Vic, well, I'll get a little religious or sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm confronted with this news, but we can't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a five-seater car, you know, like we're not in a big enough house, we'd have to move, you know, savings is still, you know, I'm wild in my investments and, you know, everything is imperfect, you know, as I would go in, so money up, money down, and this was a time where money was a little down, and I just told her, I said,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I go outside and I'm sitting, you know, kind of there in the balcony just but I did hear in the back of I had to say look at the birds in the air look at the lilies in the field, you know, they're close.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're fed.

[SPEAKER_00]: How much more do I love you?

[SPEAKER_00]: How much more do I take care of you?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I walked in, and I told Vic, like, hey, we don't have the space, we don't have the cash, we don't have the this, we don't have the that, so let's do it, and we did it, and we brought her on, and when we brought her on, uh, jewels, uh, since we brought it, and also born addicted, you know, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, the, the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the,

[SPEAKER_00]: We've never really had a financial struggle, worry, or anything, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me and us and our little family there, you know what we're trying to do is impact the world, impact lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now we have four children, two biological sons, 26, 21, 21.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then our adopted daughter, Sage and Jewel, so it's Eli Zane, Sage 13, Jewel's 11 and seven grandkids.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, both my sons got married at 17.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're following the, uh, good-o-down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm trying.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: How's the, uh, how's like, what's the medical recovery?

[SPEAKER_02]: How do they, how do they ween a kid that's born addicted to meth?

[SPEAKER_02]: What is that process and where do they end up?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do they, do they end up with deficits later on in life?

[SPEAKER_02]: Can they fully recover?

[SPEAKER_02]: How's all that work?

[SPEAKER_00]: right well there's obviously the predisposition to it which you know as any parent you're gonna be concerned right like if there's a predisposition to it and they get older you know they start just even touching the stuff they're way more prone more likely to get addicted that's spiral so

[SPEAKER_00]: In the beginning, yeah, we brought them, you know, say she had, you know, muscular issues in her mouth, so she had to have a tube, she couldn't suck on the bottle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, was a, you know, a lot of muscular issues, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mobility issues, things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are some of the bigger problems that we faced.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some, you know, some sensory stuff, you know, that they'll deal with, detachment, like,

[SPEAKER_00]: The crazy one is the detachment, you know, when we grab sage and I held her there and I looked at her in my wife Like bring her close to your face, watch what happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she's looking at me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I start pulling her in close to my face And she turns her head turns her head and this is and I'm like okay, pull her back.

[SPEAKER_00]: She looks up and we're talking weeks old

[SPEAKER_00]: and she turns her head.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the nurse was like, hey, these kids, you're like, you know, are born like this or they have abandoned men and our detachment things going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's at weeks old.

[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't want to get close.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she turn her face every time we brought her close.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably been the hardest thing to work through.

[SPEAKER_00]: But a cool thing is, uh, go, I'm back to

[SPEAKER_00]: These girls we started when they were just months old putting them in our infrared sauna at our house like we leave the door cracked open We'd have them in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're little cheeks get rosy and flush But we started putting them in there at months old for the detoxification purposes and this was years ago, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so cool to see now the world you know the West especially start to evolve and some of these more

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, alternative wellness paths that they're taking.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think an area that a lot of people are missing, that, you know, symmetry and we are focused on and some of our Mark and his geared toward is get your damn kids inside the sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like get them, you know, using it very, very young for detoxing purposes, there's far more of a need for them than even for us, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The toxins, you know, from food, environment, right, name it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: How old are you over in Europe when do they start going in in the sauna kids?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do they start just over there?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, yeah, it's part of the culture.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the kids go, you know, kids, their sweat glands aren't fully developed yet.

[SPEAKER_04]: So they can't take the super high heat for a long time like we can.

[SPEAKER_04]: But they come in and out.

[SPEAKER_04]: They'll go in for five, seven minutes come out.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's just part of the family culture like we sound a daily.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you go to Finland, you know, there's more sound of the people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll see like on a Friday night, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The kids get in out of their, you know, whether university or their school, young kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're talking junior high age, junior high age high school age.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're, you know, getting together there's groups that they're going to the public sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just going to the sauna down the street and that's how they

[SPEAKER_00]: get their weekends going and so it's just already ingrained in their culture and it's one of the reasons they're very very healthy people.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have legit sauna like family events at my house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whole families in the sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: We do this big factory reset thing where we'll do like

[SPEAKER_02]: 25 minutes in and then we'll do ice bath and another 25 minutes in ice bath.

[SPEAKER_02]: We do that a lot like the fam There's definitely we've adopted some of that Finland Activities of getting in the sauna as a family hanging out because you you know when you're in the sauna I mean actually what I go in a loan.

[SPEAKER_02]: I always stretch in there, but if you're not

[SPEAKER_02]: Stretching then what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: You're like at least be able to talk to someone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like a time where you're gonna I'm gonna spend the next 25 minutes with my wife.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do we get to do with like what work it's Talk about stuff and hang out and that might not happen in a normal busy day where stuff is going on So that's definitely beneficial so then did you how did you end up going from the other sauna company?

[SPEAKER_02]: How did you end up with with the symmetry thing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you move the Idaho toe?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great question.

[SPEAKER_00]: So ended up some in LA with my mentor Logan and Kim and, you know, they're they're teach.

[SPEAKER_00]: I went from infrared sauna when I first started working for a fairly large company and then, you know, Logan and I went to traditional sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, started learning traditional sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Got that pretty quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we wanted to scale.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the goal was to scale the company that we were at.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it just didn't end up being something that aligned with my vision.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like Sam and Steve fairly delusional and I'm always globalizing every single thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be here to just be a competitor on a dominate, on a crush, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't sense that from a ownership of that company and just saw to the earth people really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I had to go my own way, I had to take my own chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my wife and I were just like, okay, and we've always been the type, like we're not risk adverse, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if we make a decision to do something, we're doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't matter, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I look at her and let's get out of California.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so where do we go?

[SPEAKER_00]: And literally, like, you know, kind of blindfold, and okay, there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's spoken in Washington.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a couple months later, our car packed and, you know, the pods and send us up to Spokane, I was working from home already, so it's easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was still consulting and working, you know, the sales with my buddy Logan.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was nice because I did have the liberty to just get up and go if I wanted, so we got a Spokane.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I could only have there for a handful of years, because Spokane has been voted a couple of times.

[SPEAKER_00]: The city with the ugliest people in the country, so I'm like,

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to get out of here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to get out of there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to court a lane and shortly after that, I met Sam.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've already consulted some sauna studios, like these commercial places.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, come pay 45 dollars in, you know, use a sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I already consulted some of those places.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was already in my mind to do something like that up in court a lane.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So connect it with Sam.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're like, dude, we started just really him and I got together and it was like instant oh my gosh We can take over the world, but we only had the ideas.

[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't actually know how to do this stuff So that's where Steve had a comment.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, when I met Joe I had been using sauna for several years now and your buddy Joe Rogan podcast

[SPEAKER_04]: 2017, 2018.

[SPEAKER_04]: I heard all these health benefits of sauna.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like I got to start using one.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I did and yeah, I love it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was life-changing, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And so then we moved up to Idaho from we were living in Oceanside.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was the last place my wife and I lived with three kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I was tired of being stuck in traffic all the time because I was right still running the paint company, paint bids all the time and I was just stuck in traffic all the time and told my wife was like,

[SPEAKER_04]: So I took her on the tour, the tour of Montana, all the places I thought she might want to live, and she was like, eh, eh, eh, eh.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we had a couple friends who had moved over the Coralaine a few years earlier, so she was like, let's go visit them in Coralaine, Idaho.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I was like, let's go.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we went over there, and we got there, and after two days she was like, I would move here.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I, you know,

[SPEAKER_04]: because I grew up in Montana that was kind of, I had blinders on for going back to Montana, but I was like, quarterly, not at whole.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'd move here too.

[SPEAKER_04]: So 30 days later, I had a house accepted offer and I told her, I was like, hey, 30 days, a U-Haul's leaving, hope you're in it because we're going, and a lot of that driving factor for me was elk, like I wanted to be close to where I could elk on every fault without having to travel so far from San Diego

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, having grown up in Montana, San Diego was an amazing place to live for the whole journey I did, but I was just kind of, it had run its course for me, and I think I was kind of ready to go back home.

[SPEAKER_02]: And did you have a business in mind when you moved up there?

[SPEAKER_04]: no you know that's crazy is I had hired a general manager trained him for a year to run my painting company and he was running it great we had like 17 employees just and I was so I was getting a pretty handsome monthly paycheck doing nothing and I told my wife I probably shouldn't

[SPEAKER_04]: is that make it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Am I retired?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, are we okay?

[SPEAKER_04]: Because we're making a good money, you know, so I called it my first retirement and then COVID hit.

[SPEAKER_04]: And guess what's not essential in San Diego, California or in COVID, painting people's houses is not essential.

[SPEAKER_04]: So within about, you know, it was about six to nine months before you could start going out and giving payments.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, all our guys were gone by then.

[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't have employees left.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, there was, so it was basically,

[SPEAKER_04]: Done.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you just got annihilated by COVID.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just completely shoves them to the center.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so then I'm now I'm in Idaho with no income and I'll sudden, you know, and that's when Steve came up to visit and we we started a company up there called bullet painting.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I told him I was like, hey, what it took me 10 years to do in San Diego, we can replicate in three months.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because now I know exactly what to do, what not to do, how to market this.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we launched a painting company, and I mean within weeks we were selling contracts, getting guys, trying to get it going.

[SPEAKER_04]: We painted a few houses at first ourselves.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we just built a business kind of at scale very, very quickly.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it became a name in that town really quickly with that business.

[SPEAKER_04]: And now we still, we still own that, but we hired a general manager to run the painting company.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's still going.

[SPEAKER_02]: But uh, and so who's the, who, when did the sauna start?

[SPEAKER_04]: I met Joe in 2019, we started, I mean, within months, we were talking about what if we were to build a sauna studio where members would come and use our sauna and we were like, yeah, this is a great idea.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we had the question though of, is court-aligned population density big enough to actually support this?

[SPEAKER_04]: And, uh,

[SPEAKER_04]: So I always tell people, so we did exactly zero market research, drained our pockets of all the money we had and said let's just do it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and that's when, but we knew, like Joe and I were kind of visionaries, we're forward thinking, we're both really good at sales and talking and blah, blah, blah, blah, but we have no skills in building a website in marketing and all the tools.

[SPEAKER_04]: Holding tools, I have some tools.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just don't let me touch electric.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I messed up one of our first builds really badly.

[SPEAKER_04]: I wired something wrong and everything when I was like, ooh, and so now they won't let me do that last time doing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not doing that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was teaching also less than that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I tell them, I was like, I'm probably the safest guy now.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm never going to repeat that mistake again.

[SPEAKER_04]: I learned it once, but we brought Steven, who, you know, you see all of our marketing and our website and the beautiful photography and videography and all of that, that's him, he's the detail guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm backing it up, though, you know, like, and again, something that we saw that I don't think a lot of the, the sauna people, business people have seen is they're opening up these studios.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we talked about, hey, let's open up one of these sauna studios.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know the monthly fees already consulted several across the country on how to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I already had it in the bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, but let's make the sauna studio a showroom for custom saunas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and so let's make every sauna very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's make it ourselves because I'm telling you guys, like this is going to be a showroom that members are going to pay for, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: and it became exactly that, so the studio was running successfully and then really successfully actually, then we had our little sweet upstairs in the dingle, the dingle-dangle building, and then as soon as we launched that, you put together that landing page, I said, dude, once we put this landing page on,

[SPEAKER_00]: people from all over the country are going to be contacting us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we were, we called ourselves Northwest Customs on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that it?

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a few.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was the, that was on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was on install.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we learned really quick really quick that you know, calls are coming in from all over the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as they speak to us, they realize on the phone at least.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as we're consulting both salmon, we were there to solve problems.

[SPEAKER_00]: Problems at the

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, that they weren't, they haven't been able to solve for the 50-year-old industry that the, you know, sauna is in the US.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so us being able to jump on the phone straight away, solve problems, do really cool innovative things.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's the biggest issue that Americans had compared to overseas?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some of the hurricanes are kind of locked into this box of, I don't know, rustic lumber, like grandma, grandpa, dingy, this is kind of what a sauna supposed to look like.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, being partnered with Steve and knowing that, I mean, Sam and I can at this point visually, right, right, any check we wanted and Steve would have to catch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I was just telling people like,

[SPEAKER_00]: Go on like what would you like a sauna to look like so just the limitations in the US It's like it's all cedar.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's all this and just kind of looks Ugly it's also hard to find it's also hard to find someone that builds on us, you know like in most towns There's a guy and there's a carpenter that's this thing and it's kind of word of mouth They don't they're not marketing and advertising out or you kind of have your like you said the basic cedar boxes You're going to pull world and you know seeing whatever they can make for you So elevating

[SPEAKER_03]: the sauna experience from the build side and design side is we're kind of offering that to way more people and you know, being visible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And making sure the materials that we're using, you know, are more sustainable, they're better, less maintenance, you know, things we're thinking on, you know, how to make salt walls, cause salt walls have been made, you know, before our time here, but they're always made with these ugly looking little bricks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we said, hey, let's do bigger bricks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do white bricks, let's do, let's make it easy change out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just elevate what the other guys are doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we started doing that, and you know, the really cool thing is the organization that we've built, when you get on the phone with someone at symmetry, you're guaranteed that you're talking to someone who is very convicted about health, meaning not only their words, but we're all in fantastic shape.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's nobody in our organization that you would not say is really, really good shape, which is,

[SPEAKER_02]: crazy and what you guys say you were ahead of the power curve or head of the popularity of this resurgence of song of this come in the past like how long is that resurgence been like you talked about rogue and talking about obviously a human been talking about like people have been talking about in the past how long has that been I'm I'm

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember like was it like five years or something like the fourth trend is by seven, you know, it's at seven eight years it started and then right when COVID it and it really did take off.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sometimes in success.

[SPEAKER_04]: timing has something to do with it for sure and the the fact that failure as well I mean right when you have a painting business and COVID-19 There's a lot of paintings like out of your control But yeah, the fact that that we decided to join forces and do this thing at this time in history is for to it is it was very good timing to and also though, but you know and Joe Joe having the most experience in the sauna industry overall

[SPEAKER_04]: It was like, when we build this thing, we don't want to do it like everyone else.

[SPEAKER_04]: There are all these other Sonic companies out there who are doing plain-jane sonas.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we have to, we're gonna present ourselves as very different and we're gonna build things that are very different from what anyone else is doing.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we found there's two or three other Sonic companies in the US, four or five worldwide, that are kind of, I think, on par with what we're doing

[SPEAKER_04]: with the design, with actually we have teams that are our people that travel all over the US to the Bahamas, to the UK, installing Sauna's now.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we are looking to go global with this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of fits the way we've built the business, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like internally, we've

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess there's a brain trust that says, you know, do it this way and song.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the, you know, I call them dinosaurs, you know, some of them are my friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry if you're listening to this, but, you know, who run another song and come to just dinosaurs, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not for some reason.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just, it's not clicking.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for us, we've built, um, not only we, not only do we build sonas, like outside the box, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But our organization, we've done kind of backward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're all big on the nepotism, friends and family first, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's lift our people up first.

[SPEAKER_00]: And let's build a powerhouse, you know, um,

[SPEAKER_00]: backward, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's worked.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got in us to, you know, uh, heights that I don't think we even imagined we'd get to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, our son is kind of fit our, uh, our demeanor.

[SPEAKER_00]: And these guys came up with a stupidest name.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, they wanted to call us, uh, the B-bops, the bad boys of

[SPEAKER_04]: This is a just as Joe's boy band son of name that we rejected very early.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: He also didn't spike his hair for the spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so everyone sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about it here.

[SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: What was the, where did you guys come up with the name of symmetry?

[SPEAKER_02]: What did I come from?

[SPEAKER_02]: Hit that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, um, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[SPEAKER_04]: He didn't ask how much a cost.

[SPEAKER_04]: We brainstormed a bunch of ideas.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I have to get credit to my oldest son, Justice, who just turned 13, because about two months before we chose the name symmetry at home at dinner one night, I was like, hey, everyone write down 10 names that you think we should name this son of company.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, right there on Justice's list is Symmetry Sonan.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now, that kind of got shuffled to the side and then we, that's a piece of history, that's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Steve will fill in the rest, but, but when I announced to the name Symmetry Sanna, Justice brings me his paper and he's like, he wants a cut.

[SPEAKER_02]: Pay me.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a cut.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just pay him $250 cash for the name and he was pretty happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: What were you called something before symmetry?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we were in North West Coast.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we were starting to build outside of the Northwest and so people in San Diego, you guys actually do work down here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now is the time to change the name before we go any further.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I've been being in

[SPEAKER_03]: the creative industry and branding and design.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've got good friends in my buddy, Sean, written dollar who designed all of our stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: We did a whole brand, you know, study with him.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is hilarious to that we land on one that 13-year-old students.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe Sean, maybe he was, you know, in contact with Justin.

[SPEAKER_03]: Six of the best years.

[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, we wanted something that sort of spoke to one, the beauty of it, like to the, you know, I mean, obviously the body symmetrical,

[SPEAKER_02]: It's beyond just so on itself, you know, obviously we do coal plunge, we do lots of things in the world in the space now, and so we just that symmetry was beautiful, and then you start with what we do, we stuck with it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, we get a landing page.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was just a landing page.

[SPEAKER_00]: I told these guys, I said, dude, like if we put a landing page, we're going to start getting calls from all over the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they didn't believe me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he put up a quick landing page and almost that was very ugly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that just speaks to the need.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like when we first started, when we built our studio, it was sort of kind of before the way if I think is just from a marketing standpoint.

[SPEAKER_03]: People weren't.

[SPEAKER_03]: finding a song looking for a song a place, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Though the phenomenon of song studios is pretty new, we're early in that so that when people were coming to town, they weren't searching for a song a place so we had to have big song on the window and do all kinds of social media marketing and you know, I remember when he put out the splash page, Northwest Customs Sonna, I was on a call with a guy from Scottsdale, Arizona.

[SPEAKER_04]: and he was a business guy and he was like so do you guys only work in the Northwest and I go where are you sir?

[SPEAKER_04]: Scott Stale like well that's Northwest of somewhere correct and it's like so we'll certainly come down and build your planet too but he said you know how long you guys been around as well about a year is like if you were ever going to rebrand

[SPEAKER_04]: Because it might be a good time if you're going to expand, you know, to the whole US, and I was like, yeah, we've been thinking about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he planted that seed again.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember his name, but a shout out shout out to that guy.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's got sale.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, once we, and here's the other thing, when we finally got the website done, and it was launched for, for symmetry, Sana.

[SPEAKER_04]: I remember, we're in this tiny office, Joe, Steve, myself, and your son Eli, and they launched the page.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, we're just basically staring at each other, and it was within a couple hours.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ding ding.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll lead comes in.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, whole, and then it has never stopped since.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I slow down.

[SPEAKER_04]: I bet now the average about 30 really good qualified Lisa Day.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so we've got 10, 10 Sonic consultants on the phones being in our video calls all day, every day, it's wild.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like, you know, we took a tiger by the tail and we're just hanging on sometimes.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we've taken a lot of missteps.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you kind of mentioned it before.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when we opened up, it was called Heat Praxia.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was, now, symmetry is on a studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was Heat Praxia was our studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: This, this member paid showroom.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember it was during COVID that we, you know, started building our prices, the prices on everything we were going to purchase went up like I don't know, 65 percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sam and I are funding this thing out of our pocket.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, and Steve's funding it with his sweat equities building all the stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to sell it on the least $17 I've put in the industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all I had.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I had.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we get done with this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're way way over budget.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just like, all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we unveil it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We take off the window wrapping.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're standing on the outside looking at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, it says heat praxia.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like,

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, we didn't do any marketing.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do people know this isn't like a heat and air conditioning company?

[SPEAKER_00]: So people are just, it's all full of art, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: People are just walking by like, they have no idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what is this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Steve jumped on it pretty quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that was a big misstep and you know, you get to learn from these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: None of us have been practicing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Proxy, I mean.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, the practice of heat is literally that.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a made up word that we thought would be fun to have a unique word.

[SPEAKER_03]: It started.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: People, until people started pronouncing it wrong, not knowing what it meant.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you, how long did you take you to decide to change that?

[SPEAKER_03]: We did that after, for the last year, actually.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And did you get membership in there?

[SPEAKER_02]: How do they get to people start coming in?

[SPEAKER_02]: We did.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was slow.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was slow because we were right on this beautiful little downtown street in Coralaine and people were looking for bars or, you know, tourists and stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: And soon years.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they're not really in the, I'm going to go get sweaty, Bob.

[SPEAKER_03]: but still we built up a really really amazing little community and then our tragedy was one of the weeks that it was minus 15 the pipes above us in the building first and flood in our whole total studio.

[SPEAKER_03]: We were about 14 hundred square feet.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll time you a little place, but it do do your insurance for oh I haven't talked about that Wednesday.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll just say that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was there was some.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, no, no, no, by all by all, by all first glances, we were completely covered and then on page 178 section 2-1-8.

[SPEAKER_04]: if a water pipe grows in breaks because of low temperatures, frozen pipe, you're not covered.

[SPEAKER_02]: You get 60 to $100.

[SPEAKER_04]: We didn't know that closet in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we got host.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I mentioned in the beginning of this, you know, we had a fire here that was due to electrical in this sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: And thankfully, we had like full insurance, and that's how we were able to rebuild.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, it's a massive, um,

[SPEAKER_02]: massive bill to rebuild this place without insurance.

[SPEAKER_02]: We would have definitely But we would I would well we were more or less without insurance But we chose to do it anyway.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so we found a new location.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have about 3800 square feet now and we completely rebuilt and it's been really amazing We were faced with a decision in that, you know, we Cussimetry sauna manufacturing and symmetry build

[SPEAKER_00]: has taken off all over the country become this, you know, juggernaut and now we have this little studio and we're just like, why are we gonna redo this again?

[SPEAKER_00]: And with the thing is, you know, we made a promise number one, we made a promise to our general manager Heather Gallegos shot out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That, you know, as we poached her from her whole company, we said, hey, we're going to take you as far as we can take you and, you know, and you play it right, you know, you could be an owner with us someday and we just weren't be asking.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as we flooded out, we were out several hundred thousand dollars, you know, out of pocket.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're sitting there, symmetry, you know, sauna, manufacturing's taken off.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, why are we going to do this again?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Heather came to us and she's like, hey, there's a bunch of members who are leaving their auto payments on.

[SPEAKER_00]: for us to rebuild.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, you know, and so we're sitting there was like, dude, this isn't the cow, you know, that manufacturing is, but a lot of people started crying out, you know, how the studios change their lives, help them, you know, stop drinking, stop smoking, blood pressure, all these benefits that they were experiencing because of what we had exclusively in downtown Court of Lane.

[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of like the adoption thing, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We look at each other and like, we don't have the funds to really do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why should we do it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we did it and we made actual Heather.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we made her, we kept to our word.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we took her from just an employee to she's not equal partner with us in the studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, lift in her as high as we could get herself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is now, yeah, it's our pet project, you know, the studio.

[SPEAKER_04]: She just texted us yesterday.

[SPEAKER_04]: in a big publication in Quarterland, Idaho that Symmetry's on a studio, voted best business in Quarterland.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's for that year, which was solid and that's pretty solid.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, it is cool now too.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's a sort of a generational shift happening with a lot of these young people in their 20s.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're kind of entrepreneur minded.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're really into health and fitness.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they're not going to the bars and drinking.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're coming to our studio.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're such an awful plan.

[SPEAKER_02]: I forget the number.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just read it two days ago, but people are like the younger generation.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're not drinking.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're taking care of themselves.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Health and fitness.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're like like I was talking about my family, you know, my kids are in their counties.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they're on a Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are they doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sauna and ice bath.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm working out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to Gigietsu.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of the new deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really glad, I mean, I never would have gone into the alcohol business, but the alcohol business is, I know people in the alcohol business.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a rough business right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a rough business because the younger generation, they're just not drinking as much as the older generation did.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's pretty cool and not surprising.

[SPEAKER_02]: As you learn, as people learn, have learned so much more about what alcohol does to your system and not to mention

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like horrific to think about, you know, what your kids went through, being born, addicted to meth, like how addictive has something got to be that you'll jeopardize your child, your unborn child's life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like can you imagine how just demonically fueled, yeah, that just is insane to think about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say this when you were talking about that, because you talked about they are kind of predisposed to be addicted.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, that's one thing that I've told many people, but especially young people, look, there's eight out of ten people, they can drink alcohol, perfectly fine and be social and carry on, and it'll never be a problem for.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's two people out of that ten that it's going to negatively impact them.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of those two is going to wreck their life.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, and you don't really know where you are.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what, you know, why you want to risk the chance?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why take the chance?

[SPEAKER_02]: When look, can it be fun for a young person to go out drinking in a night or whatever?

[SPEAKER_02]: They have a good time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but they could also have a good time if they didn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: They could have a good time doing a million other things.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's no risk of ruining and destroying your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, when you destroy your own life from alcohol, you pretty much destroy everyone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone around you as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a huge supporter of sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it'll be a replacement of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when someone calls up, you guys, what's the,

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they call up and say, hey, I'm building a house where I got this space in my house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I need here's what I want.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you guys go through the design process.

[SPEAKER_02]: How's that work?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, they'll call up, you know, it depends how far along they already are.

[SPEAKER_04]: But let's say they have a floor plan from their architect.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, son is already drawn in.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a seven by seven.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so we have a whole, you know, design book and all of that that we can book a call with them on video.

[SPEAKER_04]: Go through all the different numbers we could put in there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want salt walls?

[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want this?

[SPEAKER_04]: All these different benching profiles we can do and people basically get to pick and design their own SANA to the aesthetics that they love And then we'll do some professional drawings and those over get them a quote if it goes to that next phase Then they're gonna pay us and we're gonna get that SANA into production once it gets into production We pre-fabricate everything up in Idaho

[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to box it in these gigantic crates that are going to be trucked to their home once it's delivered about five days later our bill team will fly out boots on the ground and then we'll install that thing and end

[SPEAKER_04]: go through safety checks and do all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it used to be a majority of homes now, we're about 50, 50 commercial.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do a ton of commercial.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's actually growing even more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool thing is, considering we have a studio, I can't tell you how many competing studios we've actually built out, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's our stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there's plenty of meat on the bone, plenty of people who need to get healthy and places all over the country that we probably can't touch, so, you know, yeah, we're more than happy to support these commercial places that just have a dream and, you know, there's even been points where we've consulted, you know, some of these spaces for studios and yeah, come on, fly down and we'll teach you the ABCs of how to build a successful son of studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's the cool thing about us.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not just trying to

[SPEAKER_00]: Court it all and being the guys on top, peeing on everyone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're, we want everybody to rise together.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And in, in the US market,

[SPEAKER_04]: They think the saturation rate of sonnus per house is 0.6% of 1%.

[SPEAKER_04]: So whereas in Finland, it's just about 100%.

[SPEAKER_04]: So there's more sonnus than people in Finland.

[SPEAKER_04]: So in the US, even though it feels like we're in this parabolic rise, we are at the very very beginning of a very big thing that's coming in the next 10 to 15 years.

[SPEAKER_02]: uh... sons are expensive they're more expensive than i think people expect them to be because when you look at him from the outside of your it's a box of the heater in it right and but then when you recognize the fact that you got to put special materials and there you can't use certain materials you can't have glues you can't have certain uh... like treatments on the wood like there's a whole bunch of things that fall in a place and they end up i was trying to think of a good way to say this there are about as expensive as a car

[SPEAKER_02]: there you go and guess what can you get a car for five grand yes you can and you know that car is gonna be a five thousand dollar car can you get a car for a hundred thousand dollars yes you can it's that gonna be a really nice car yes it is and sonos are kind of that way you can spend anywhere from five grand or all the way up to a hundred and fifty grand to yeah and higher you

[SPEAKER_02]: particular materials in it, and then it's got to be designed a certain way.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they can be very, very expensive.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what you guys can do, any kind of anything in that spectrum, but, you know, if I'm just saying this, if somebody calls up and they think they're going to spend 3,200 bucks on a custom sauna, it ain't happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they're, they're definitely more expensive than I think people are used to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or people expect them to be, especially because you can see, you can go online and there's some, there's some, you know, sauna in a box that's got $100.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for cheaper.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's some, I think there's, I haven't tried one of these, but there's some of these saunas now that are kind of like portable saunas like they're like, if you're a fighter, yeah, you put on a, you put on a, you put your hotel room or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that gets those options too.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, um, so that's the process that you guys go through and do your people go and install

[SPEAKER_04]: Now, not on everyone, sometimes people have a GCE who is experienced in son of building, and they want him to do it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then we're going to get him full elevations and shop drawings to help him have an easier install.

[SPEAKER_04]: But we're finding that, I don't know, 65% of our custom son is, they prefer to hire symmetry to come out.

[SPEAKER_04]: It goes, and honestly, our cost to do that, I find is about the same as what their GCE was going to do it for anyway.

[SPEAKER_04]: and then I'm like, we're gonna do it three days faster than it.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is all we do.

[SPEAKER_04]: We don't touch, we don't build anything else anymore, sauna, sauna, sauna.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, like, like, you guys in the Navy SEALs specialists, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: We are specialists in this thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it seems to go better when we do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like the

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the analogy you use there, you know, it's usually when you buy the $5,000 car right your goal is to get to the $100,000 car at some point So for us, you know, we get calls all the time of hey, I bought this sauna and it's not I'm not sweating it anymore Right, oh, oh, what's what's the temp here, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well it only goes to 130 degrees

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so Sammy's turned me on to this point of, you know, by one's cry once, right, and what we're trying to do when people call in is we're trying to, you know, walk them through their needs like we don't want them to Design and build something So big that, you know, three weeks later they're like crap

[SPEAKER_00]: like I shouldn't have got it so big or I shouldn't have got it so small, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really trying to curtail our conversation and what we're trying to get to, you know, or what they need, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the best value for you?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to overcharge for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to give you value for value, but yeah, I think by once cry once, a lot of the stuff people buy, they'll end up, you know, we have tons and tons of people who have either infrared sonners or barrels,

[SPEAKER_00]: who are calling us like, yeah, I don't like this anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what they've acclimated, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They can only get so hot in some of these saunas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for us, we're really focused on the overall heat impact percentage, you know, the hips that they're able to fill, and we make sure we build it right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so we're going to be price higher for sure, but we're only going to do it once.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: at what point did you guys know you like had a winner like basically at what point did you guys realize you had a winner of a business and what who who called or or what business or what came through where you were like oh this is I'll say I'll say we were finally able to pair ourselves that was that was the moment there's a lot of the years oh shoot

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to bring a Josh and Shelley so again we're doing it backward right from how most businesses say to you know stay away from friends and family and business And we're like dude all we have our friends and family at this point and so we were just we had studio running.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were just launching The custom you know customers on a manufacturing and we're drowning already so two people from our home group So we were in getting paid like none of us are getting paid.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just you know working as hard as humanly possible So several months.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going through it and

[SPEAKER_00]: a couple husband and wife from our church you know a little church group said hey we want to come and help you guys out which is volunteer a little time every week and you know we'll see where go something and oh cool they seem smart you know we never worked with them in a business capacity they're just like church people they show up with their little brief cases husband and wife on a on a Monday

[SPEAKER_00]: They stay there for eight hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wow, they did a lot of work today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doing what?

[SPEAKER_02]: Answering the phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, just typing stuff, answering phone, buying stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: We weren't sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: We weren't sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they looked impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they looked busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were really busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you guys have your business.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: And how many employees do you have at this point?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at this point, it's just four of us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Four of us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: And some friends of yours from church said, hey, can we just come in and work?

[SPEAKER_00]: Voluntary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: At your business.

[SPEAKER_00]: They came in on Monday for eight hours, then they showed up the next day for eight hours, then they showed up the next day for six months.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Josh and Shelley Watkins, huge shot out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We wouldn't be here without you guys for six months.

[SPEAKER_00]: They worked for symmetry with zero paycheck grinding with us out.

[SPEAKER_02]: How are they feeding their family or whatever?

[SPEAKER_04]: They had another contract.

[SPEAKER_04]: They had a long-term contract doing marketing stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: The marketing and computer work for comedy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Who would win that company had something for them to do?

[SPEAKER_04]: They were like on retainer.

[SPEAKER_04]: They would send it their way.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, they haven't sent us anything for six months.

[SPEAKER_04]: We have time on our hands.

[SPEAKER_04]: We want to come and help you guys out.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, turns out Shelley now runs our entire procurement.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's been a gun.

[SPEAKER_04]: government conjecture, I think she orders all the lumber, the heaters, I mean, she orders all materials for our fabrication team and then Josh is he's a savant in building systems.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's now our chief of operations.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like he built all the systems of how does a sauna sail

[SPEAKER_04]: communicate through the company to where it finally ends up to where it's supposed to be with the right people on the ground and he's built auto automated all of these systems and now he's using some AI to help automate things even better.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, shelly was a procurement specialist.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a word in tech.

[SPEAKER_00]: Josh is, yeah, this is a bond and now he's like into the AI with Eli and they're building our infrastructure.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why we're able to go into other verticals now, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have other businesses because we have the power team.

[SPEAKER_00]: We literally have the group of people we could if we wanted to uplift and place in any industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: and be awesome like there's zero doubt about it in my mind, but just the the fate right to get them volunteering their time for six months, then we started giving them a paycheck.

[SPEAKER_00]: So and now they are they are intricate, very important piece to the the symmetry puzzle that we've laid out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: So how long did it take before you guys cut yourself a paycheck?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was about two years.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there was a couple as a little hand a mouth there like, you know, I was at the, for the first couple years, it was me designing and building the scientists like, and I'd bring help, you know, but it was like, okay, we can take $1,000 from this one.

[SPEAKER_04]: During that time, I was still running full at painting full time and you know, and so Steve and I were owners of that But any profits we made off that we would just roll over here, so we could get a couple thousand dollars And then when we finally got our general manager at him to run full at painting Then I came in full time right at the time we launched the symmetry sauna website And I was getting paid a whopping $4,000 a month to take care of my family and quarterly

[SPEAKER_00]: until until we just started making sales, which happened quickly, I mean within the first month it was like ding ding song-ass old ding ding song-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass old-ass

[SPEAKER_00]: And our, you know, my little brother I had hired, you know, be a sales guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was getting, you know, my brother Dan.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was getting more paid more money than me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my idea of the night is like, how's your brother making more than you?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're the CEO.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like, hey, this is what it takes, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a sacrifice.

[SPEAKER_00]: So before you want to go jump in and, and, you know, run, run your mouth about how you want to, you know, be this big shot man.

[SPEAKER_00]: You better be ready to pay the price because it is a heavy, heavy price.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, they're, you're the one that's getting the call when something goes wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, what do you guys do about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, sauna set up somewhere, you know, something stops working, something breaks.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's your, what's your protocol on that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've actually built.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have symmetry, sauna manufacturing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have symmetry studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have a separate company now, a symmetry build, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so Tony and Vera, they run that entire division.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they're so awesome they run that entire division so we go out we send our team out if anything goes wrong uh you know we're on the phone we're helping sometimes and it's just we have to rely on that right and even though it dips in our margins or even though we go on the red right on some projects

[SPEAKER_00]: We committed to do something and do it right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to see it through.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, Tony, him and Vera are running that entire division.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have several teams that fly out of court alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have teams in Florida.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have people all over that this is what they do full time in our queue right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just I don't know if it's for the next month.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have like 70, 80, 90 builds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that that we got to go fulfill.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we're writing Sam and I are writing all these checks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And luckily we have the people surrounding us who can catch them.

[SPEAKER_04]: but you know now now we have you know full-time customer service person we've got the build team that could travel but early on we did we did a beautiful outdoor sauna for a guy in in Sanitas and you know our team built it a couple weeks later I get a call from him like hey the sauna's not heating up I don't know what's wrong

[SPEAKER_04]: So Steve and I, next morning, we're on an airplane to San Diego.

[SPEAKER_04]: We come down, it took Steve five minutes.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's like the electrician didn't tighten the wire tighten up.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we did that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Everything was fired up.

[SPEAKER_04]: We got to jump in the ocean to our surf session, back on a plane that night, back to uh, back to Coralaine.

[SPEAKER_04]: So,

[SPEAKER_04]: that that was kind of the commitment we had early on was like it doesn't we're not dropping a ball on anyone ever whatever we got to do so we would hop on planes and be in the middle of nowhere doing a five-minute fix you know that was costly but at the same time you get so many dividends on your reputation because if you know

[SPEAKER_02]: everyone here's this you know if I have a bad experience with symmetry I call my friends I don't use them they suck right you know that that is so much worse But when you take care of someone band that's so beneficial because they spread that work too like oh you should do a hundred percent go with these guys I had this issue they flew down there fixed it you know all good That's what you got to do that's that's how you maintain the reputation of the business and

[SPEAKER_00]: on the on the on the thought of when I feel like I felt you know we we made it or we got something big on our hands yeah I don't think it was when we started getting paid I think it's when I'm sitting there myself writing a six million dollars six million dollar contract you know like plain attorney because I'm still at that point I think we get a four to an attorney uh I'm just like oh my god this contract looks good and we get and then you know it comes back and it's sign I'm like this is like a six and a half million dollar

[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing it like we're playing attorneys.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're playing sauna builders.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Was that for one sauna?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was for a big, it was for a big, it was for a big, it was for a big, it was for a big, it was for a big, it was for a franchise, you know, studio location.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just, you know, we're contracting to make several hundred saunas.

[SPEAKER_00]: But man, that's when we were writing out that contract.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, okay, these bigger contracts, you know, we're going to be able to get.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've,

[SPEAKER_00]: been able to secure some crazy relationships, and again, I don't know what's attracting it or to us, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I just know like our partnership is probably something that it is a bit magnetic, you know, where our characters and funny, but we're all very honest, right, about and straight out, as they like to call us the bad boys of sauna, so we're just going to tell you the true regardless, you know, and so we, I think that's when I realize like,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that big contract I first on was like okay, we're we're in this thing and I had a this year A moment what I was like

[SPEAKER_04]: Have we made it because I get a email and the name is Lara Trump and I'm like, nah, that's not as someone with the same name.

[SPEAKER_04]: How crazy.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I email that K. Wanted to book a video call over this and we couldn't help design your son.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure enough, get on the call.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's Lara Trump and I'm like, OK, as like, first of all, I thought you would have an assistant doing this stuff for you.

[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, no, I like to be involved in it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, how did, how did you find us?

[SPEAKER_04]: Did someone tell you about us?

[SPEAKER_04]: She was like, just,

[SPEAKER_04]: looking at custom saunas found your website clearly you guys are the ones who are doing this the right way I was like well Hold on before you go there like let us do it for you and then tell the world that we're doing it right But yeah, so she we have a sauna in fabrication for Lara Trump And then they want us to do the Trump winery after that to redo the sauna's there so you know that when no moments like that hit you're just kind of like

[SPEAKER_04]: imposter syndrome, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, how'd you find this?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, um, that's a good question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nicky found Nicky Falgas, so Nicky who is doing the rebuild here, and you know, he's a, he's a, you know, one of our, one of our, one of our, one of our, one of part of our family evictory, and he was, you know, tasked with building the best song that we could possibly build here, and so he, he came to me and told me about you guys, and that's kind of how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how,

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe let me tell the story from my perspective really quickly.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's got Nick called and I answered the phone up in Idaho And he said hey, we're we got a gym down here in San Diego and we want to put Sonna's in and I was like What kind of gym?

[SPEAKER_04]: He was like, oh, it's a MMA gym and I said that's is that chocolate gym?

[SPEAKER_04]: I said I heard the place burned down from the sauna.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is that true?

[SPEAKER_04]: And he said yeah, I'm jockels Gc

[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, we start talking and he sent me the dimensions at everything and we did this, I sent him a quote, Nick calls me back about a week later and he says,

[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, I go, I go Nick.

[SPEAKER_04]: Jockel owns origin clothing, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And he goes, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I go, I want you to ask Jockel a question for me.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why is Gene so expensive?

[SPEAKER_04]: And he goes, well, they're made in the USA.

[SPEAKER_04]: I go, you know where our son is, are made.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the USA, and he goes, oh, Jockel's gonna like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that was kind of how it went.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, and here we are.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna go, so what are the, how many employees do you guys have right now?

[SPEAKER_02]: What do we close to 40 or 35 to 40 songs like that?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then what's the goal?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like what's the next big thing that you guys are doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, who?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Silence.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we've moved in a few different verticals.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going into more the spa.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that's where it's taken us.

[SPEAKER_00]: The overall spa.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not just limited to sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the different modalities.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're launching a cold tub, a very custom, you know, to match, let's say you get a outdoor sauna and you had it build, you know, a certain way, we can custom build the cold tub to match exactly that, aesthetically, so in that game now, we've been, you know, we've been building our own cold tub, we did in studio, so we feel like we have a decent handle up on that, then we're getting into what you call the IV, IV wellness, Dr. Luke and Nick, and we've been building our own cold tub, we did in studio, so we feel like we have a decent handle up on that, then we're getting into what you call the IV wellness, Dr. Luke and Nick, and we've been building our own cold tub, we've been building our own cold tub, we did in studio, so we feel like we have a decent handle up on that, then we're getting into what you call the IV wellness, Dr. Luke and Nick and,

[SPEAKER_03]: Right off.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Name Jaco too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right on.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you guys look back, you know, you hear you are, you know, you may not have made it to where you want to make it to, but you certainly are on step.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're all getting paychecks, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a positive thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you look back, like, what are the big lessons?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, let's go through each of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's the big lessons learned?

[SPEAKER_02]: that you if you were doing this again or you were going to tell someone that's out there look everyone's you know out there trying to struggle trying to make things happen you want to take away or give somebody one piece of advice that would really have been helpful to you what what do you got?

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll go first and

[SPEAKER_04]: We had a few, I'll say, business advisors or people kind of speaking in our ear, telling us slow down, slow down.

[SPEAKER_04]: You guys are gonna make mistakes.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can't grow this fast, you can't expand this fast.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, Joe and I would look at each other and we'd say, let's press the gas pedal harder.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because we knew that we're not slowing down.

[SPEAKER_04]: We are here,

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, as Connor McGregor said, we're not here to take part.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're here to take over and it's just the way we roll like big vision and we're going to go 100 miles an hour and we're going to find the people and we're going to train them and we're going to build a systems and we're going to do the thing and then if I have to be on a plane late at night to go somewhere and fix something then I'm going to be the guy that does that.

[SPEAKER_04]: but we're just we don't roll slow and we just saw the potential of what this can be.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so some, you know, classical business advice is, you know, build super slow.

[SPEAKER_04]: Do we add one guy say,

[SPEAKER_04]: Let's just do three songs a month and we'll do those three perfectly best at And you know, and I was like there's some of us who have to get a paycheck at some point And I was like we could do 30 songs this month.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why would we not do that?

[SPEAKER_04]: And then just work 24 hours a day to make sure it goes well

[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, so we just, and the other thing that I would, you're going to steal my thunder out.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, a hundred times over is everyone always says, do not go into business with your friends or family, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And, and I always say, no, no, no, no, no, no, who your friends are?

[SPEAKER_04]: And because at the end of the day,

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, making money is great because you need it to live, but not the motivation isn't money.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I know these guys so well, and we've all been dirt broke and completely happy before.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, if I'm broke again, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's not going to change who I am, and it's not going to change Joe.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's not going to change Steve.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, but being a business with these guys, and there were times in the last couple years, where we had almost no thousands in the bank, and we're just looking at each other like, this could be it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, are we going to make payroll this month?

[SPEAKER_04]: And we are always just like high five if it all fails.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a hell of a ride blast.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's been amazing and we'll go to the local burger joint and just take that place over.

[SPEAKER_04]: So just resiliency.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one point I give people is you need to listen to the demand signal.

[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes people falsify the demand signal in their own head, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, of course, everybody wants a Bulgarian waffles.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know when you're like no one's ever heard of Bulgarian waffles.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he wants him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just made him up my head.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever So one thing that's important is like as you You get demand signal for 30 so on us.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no like you said like find a way like okay If you only have Demand signal for three and you build 30 guess what you're going out of bed.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so you need to pay attention to that demand signal But if the demand signals there

[SPEAKER_02]: you know, do everything you can to fulfill it and grow based on demand signal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't grow based on your fantasies.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not big.

[SPEAKER_02]: You got to have a vision, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But there's a difference between a vision and a fantasy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes people's fantasy is not matching reality.

[SPEAKER_02]: So check that demand signal.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if it's there, go get it right on.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you got, Joe?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it sam's still a little bit of my thunder, but I was reflecting not too long ago maybe a month ago and I did share with these guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I brought up that exact fact right I said hey man When the sauna studio um when the heat praxia the water pipe broke and

[SPEAKER_00]: we the insurance didn't cover it and we're out several hundred thousand dollars we could have easily turned on each other like you didn't what why didn't we not once same thing you know as we were building manufacturing and bank account goes way way way way way way up we're like yeah we didn't and then it goes way way way way way down like what's happening

[SPEAKER_00]: Not I called Sam into the office and Steve I'm like, no Sam.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Steve was at studio working there And I said hey, Sammy come here want to see something cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, yeah, check this out And I filmed up my computer screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was not many thousands in there and we had you know a huge nut to cover We're halfway through the month and he just looks at me, you know, and he was like

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's our bank account, huh?

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, yeah, pretty much all the money we have.

[SPEAKER_04]: We had, I'll share it with $10,000 in the bank account and we were about in two weeks.

[SPEAKER_04]: We were gonna have to pay out $300,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, keep in mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we are bootstrapped, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we are truly bootstrapped from the ground for every company we built.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had no money starting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we had no loans.

[SPEAKER_00]: We got no none of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we did it out of belief and being too stubborn to take money from the outside saying we're gonna do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: At that point we wish we would add money that we'd taken from the outside or gone working capital.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're sitting there, but no blame game.

[SPEAKER_00]: No fingers on why do we come into that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we spend on that none of that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was and when we got through that right Sam dig give us speech like hey man, if this is it's been a hell of a ride and We're gonna go flip burgers for a couple of months then take over the burger stand.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I also said

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to sell 700,000 worth of sonas in the next two weeks and collect all that money, we'll be fine and we did, it was wild, but you know, so the biggest takeaway that I'd have if I could replay it or advise anybody is pick your partners wisely.

[SPEAKER_00]: and make sure there's a synergy and something beyond X's and O's, something beyond money, make sure there's a value drive, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we had brought on relationships, you know, who are in our ears and this is how to do it, this is enough to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But those guys were X's and O's, guys, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys were how much money, how much chitching, and that was always for us, we're always, you know, a value, you know, Sam,

[SPEAKER_00]: even though he loves to make money and be awesome and competitive he's out in Mexico and building houses you know with his family kids and my wife and I you know we're very involved in our time with the orphans and donate right and so it has to be people that align with your values so get those people make sure they are not risk adverse right make sure that if you guys agree right think long think wrong right you agree think it's a dope idea

[SPEAKER_00]: Go, build the plane, mid-air, do not let the outside noise distract you because what's inside that visceral thing when you connect it with guys who are the same spirit like do unstoppable.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not a dysphoria, like my body dysphoria.

[SPEAKER_00]: It truly is unstoppable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what you just described is clearly something that I believe in the idea of ownership and taking ownership.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's amazing

[SPEAKER_02]: how often two or three people or business partners make a decision and they make that decision together.

[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, when the decision goes well, sometimes they still stay together and you know, even when the decision goes well, some of the thing with that was really my idea, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that does happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: But where you really see the fractures are when the decision that we made, we sat in a room, we all cried on this thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know what, Joe, you might have been the one that was like, like, no, no, this is what we should do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe I was willing to kind of resist and put at the end of the meeting.

[SPEAKER_02]: I said, you know what, cool, we go.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's amazing how that fractures when that when the decision ends up being the bad decision.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now instead of me going, hey, all right, what are we going to do fix it and said I say, well, that was your call to you're going to do it and when that when that happens when people aren't taking ownership within the ownership group like together, you're fine, right because look man like, you know, everyone's rolling the dice and no one knows if the future's going to be so it's really easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really easy to you know that ownership grow to start point fingers at each other So it's it's very nice to have you guys sitting here recognizing like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of that thing You know you go we go I can say I was the guy in your story sitting arguing with my two guys about we have to make this decision and I was the advocate and they went with me

[SPEAKER_03]: on the decision was us a bad one bad decision is it was it was it about a partner to partner with and so the lesson there was don't make exceptions for personality for what you think they can do for you right so that was a big mistake and um and i can speak from personal experience that these guys are gracious

[SPEAKER_03]: And they did, they took that we decision, you know, and have not made me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe, maybe we had one session or one session.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying they're not kind of smack talking.

[SPEAKER_03]: But from the extreme ownership standpoint, I also stand up by, you know, what I thought at the time, you know, I did think that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so what you brought in one more person, we did.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you kind of saw some, you guys saw some red flags from the beginning.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, you saw, like, hey, there's also some great flags.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: This might be an opportunity.

[SPEAKER_04]: This guy was a big businessman, very, very smooth talker, and had convinced us that he could take us to the Promised Land a whole bunch faster than we could get there by ourselves.

[SPEAKER_04]: But there were, I saw a lot of red flags, and then a lot of just personality conflicts, and I was like, and I was selling the idea that

[SPEAKER_04]: this guy's going to hoses.

[SPEAKER_04]: Steve had a much more optimistic view of this experiment and I think Joe was a little more neutral, but Steve essentially Steve not a sales guy somehow sold us on the idea.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think let's do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so we have a rule with each other and I think it's been from the beginning and it's called Two out vote what no matter what and that one who's the outlier needs to change her attitude and get on board with the other two, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's in all decisions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we went to Sam and I said no on this partner.

[SPEAKER_00]: We said hey, no, we went and met with Steve at his house like deep in the woods and we said not gonna happen You know, we just don't feel comfortable and we laughed

[SPEAKER_00]: Steve didn't have a good attitude about it didn't let it go and he called us and he's like I think we're missing a guy in the lead another meeting and then yeah somehow the nonsense already you sales books the non-sale notes sold us on this partnership so begrudgingly Sam was the most begrudging to the decision I had a lot of apprehension if I a little more grace for this guy could possibly not be what we're thinking it is

[SPEAKER_03]: and we can wrap that up there but say that you know praise God it didn't you know tank us obviously it didn't you know collapse the partnership we were able to get past it and and learn some extremely valuable I think even me now I'm actually happy that it all happened because

[SPEAKER_04]: we will not repeat that mistake again like we learned very early on and even then it felt like big financial stakes but in the big picture it's it's small beans what had to happen to remove that person for partnership group so lesson learned and and now you know

[SPEAKER_04]: It it actually brought all of us even stronger.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and from that perspective I look at I've again I've seen because I have a consulting company we work with companies all the time and you see again You get the senior leadership in a company and one person makes a bad call and

[SPEAKER_02]: the the the nice thing is here Steve is you had the humility to say okay I'm looking at what just happened I made a bad call we need to fix it like yep but I've see the other thing happen where no you guys just don't get it no it's gonna get better like the all the writings on the wall crystal clear

[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, someone just continues to lie to themselves and you can't pull them back, so that's a good thing to do when things start going sideways.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you know what?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, this was on me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I made a bad call.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's cut ties immediately.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like with parachute and you're supposed to make the call.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you've got a bad parachute above your head.

[SPEAKER_02]: you know at 2500 feet you go okay this thing is not working and you just get rid of it right and is there a risk or do you get rid of it sure there's some but there's a lot more risk to keep trying to get back to it so at a certain point you got to cut that thing away and so it sounds like you were able to reach back into some of your parachuting life and cut that thing away and truth is I did read this book

[SPEAKER_03]: probably 15 years ago, sitting in my garage apartment in PB, you know, I talk to Sam about it, you know, because we met on talking about business life and all these things, and that did make have an impact on me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, they're taking, you know, ownership of the decisions you make, and it's nobody's fault with mine where I'm sitting, and I decided to skydive for 10 years instead of building a business, and so here I am.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, yeah, but learning amazing lessons,

[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, scribe having world records.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it still stands.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one of the largest naked vertical formations ever built.

[SPEAKER_02]: How many people is that?

[SPEAKER_03]: It was nine of us.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nine of us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know why it's only nine?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because most people are smarter than that.

[SPEAKER_03]: This may be true, but I still stand by and it was a proud moment for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a world record.

[SPEAKER_03]: And just to satisfy some curiosity, a lot of people do ask the question, what does a naked skydiver look like?

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we're all fit, you know, good looking people on the ground.

[SPEAKER_03]: But if you've ever seen a truck driving down a freeway with a poorly secured tarp,

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, just violently flapping and waving.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what everyone looks like.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a feel like a comfortable scenario.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was not.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it was worth it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I know we were talking before we hit record today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Doing some kind of a, gonna give somebody a song.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the deal?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that on the plate here?

[SPEAKER_02]: So what is it giving away a song?

[SPEAKER_04]: Special sauna.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we have a in Steve has designed a new pre-fab free-standing sauna in door outdoor indoor Comfortably fit to let's say if it's an adult jacco size I would say it's a two-person sauna If it's an adult my size not quite as broad in the shoulders.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think three of me could fit in there nicely So but it's maybe it's a very well built beautiful sauna and we're gonna give it away to one of your listeners

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is a rollout that we wanted to do with you and you know having the opportunity to come hang out with you with that Yeah, let's let's launch a jocco sauna thing that would be cool and we're like why don't we give one away So we're gonna do that and it's you know we'll retell it I don't know 1415 thousand dollars Definitely for any of your followers who are friends who don't win and

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll do a massive price cut for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's the goal.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to cool us on and probably one of the most beautiful in the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Steve does.

[SPEAKER_00]: Makes things very beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, be able to launch that out pretty soon here for you guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was just told that we were going to stay in scenario.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's going to be an entered-to-win thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it sounds like you guys have never done this before.

[SPEAKER_02]: We...

[SPEAKER_03]: I've given things away before.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's, I don't, you know, there's a lot of legalities behind this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you know that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of legalities behind this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who can enter, how they are, how they're actually big deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've given all, I've given away stuff at Jockel Fuel before and it origin before.

[SPEAKER_04]: and what you think is like oh yeah just have people sign up and you know there's a bunch of things so you're gonna have to look at that over the coming weeks yeah we have to make sure that it's my wife doesn't end up winning the song right yeah there's all kinds of things yeah that's it's okay all right turn it yeah or turn it will

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll check it out.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess we'll announce that fairly soon of how people can sign up for this legitimate giveaway.

[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know who's going to win it, but someone's going to, someone's going to get an amazing song.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about nepotism.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't

[SPEAKER_00]: We actually don't even have a name for the sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: We tend to name all of our, you know, pre-fab, it'll be this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So fresh.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're moving.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if any of your people out there have cool names to suggest ones, they see this.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'd be really cool too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what I'll do is I mean, so people can check out the website, right, which is cemetery sauna.com and at some point you'll put a

[SPEAKER_02]: put a banner on there on how to win this sauna and then I'll put that out to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So people get the opportunity because, you know, sauna's good for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Super good for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Super good for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're family enjoyed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No doubt.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this one here at the gym, both of them, the men, some of them are, they're going to use like crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they get used like crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is, this is probably

[SPEAKER_02]: one of the most ripe environments for a sauna because you've got people that are sore, people that are need recovery, and people that are cutting weight.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you put those three things together.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sauna is just like all the time going to be just getting crushed.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why you need high quality.

[SPEAKER_02]: And awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we're at.

[SPEAKER_02]: A second step speed, anything else?

[SPEAKER_02]: We got to check in.

[SPEAKER_02]: We got to check in.

[SPEAKER_02]: We got a sauna that you guys are going to give away,

[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you want to find you at cemeterysona.com, you got Instagram and Facebook at Cemetery, sauna.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they can check that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then go check out Cemetery Sona and enter this, which will be a legal, very legal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very legal.

[SPEAKER_02]: All the lawyers will make sure everything is cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that will be that, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks, Joe.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks for joining us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for coming down here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for building out, like, truly freaking most beautiful sonas I've ever seen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the most beautiful sonas I've ever seen, that that are at victory of MMA.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody that wants to question that, come and have a look at them and fight whoever's in the sun.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I don't fight the winner, I can't tell you that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen you guys are having a MMA match?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it a grab match?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a grab match.

[SPEAKER_02]: So here's the grappling match for our Steve versus Joe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Steve's winning at 190.

[SPEAKER_02]: How tall are you?

[SPEAKER_02]: six two six two one ninety where you had one seventy two six four yeah so he's these five four four five seven five seven six six one seventy uh Steve has trained for an in the year let's just say in the past one year once a week ten years ago fifteen years ago he's a wild that's

[SPEAKER_02]: That could be dangerous.

[SPEAKER_00]: They might be rusty.

[SPEAKER_00]: No one's going to want to watch.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just two years of wrestling in high school?

[SPEAKER_00]: Not only that.

[SPEAKER_00]: My mom was a boxer.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the combination she gave to me, like, this is no striking Joe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's right.

[SPEAKER_03]: No striking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Biting.

[SPEAKER_03]: I need this face.

[SPEAKER_03]: You need that face.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you guys are getting to train.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want your coaches.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're one of the coaches for now or so.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a good enough.

[SPEAKER_04]: I should have done this.

[SPEAKER_04]: I should have done this.

[SPEAKER_04]: I should have done this.

[SPEAKER_04]: I should have done this.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, he didn't come on the guy sitting right here, don't make a film like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about this beforehand, and I think Joe's like, this doesn't sound like a compliment.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this wasn't not We're not people.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we hear.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're not as people.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: the idea that people have in their minds about fighting, if they've never actually trained to fight.

[SPEAKER_02]: And even if you got in some fights growing up, you got in some fights, you have this little sliver of like, oh, there's gonna be some adrenaline, but to watch people that don't know how to fight.

[SPEAKER_02]: Especially against someone that does know how to fight, which I'm not saying either one of you because I don't think either one of you You know, I'll fight.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's gonna be but the interesting thing is it's cool an hour of training See who see who absorbs the most you're gonna have a little bit Steve's gonna have a little bit of muscle memory from his one here of intermittent Jitu.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, small muscles

[SPEAKER_02]: his intermittent memory of wrestling and his mom's genetic boxing skills and getting jumped in the bathroom.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know those who are boxing here?

[SPEAKER_02]: That's all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have a prediction?

[SPEAKER_02]: You wanted to make it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's going to.

[SPEAKER_04]: For you to watch them, grapple is going to be like me watching football players try to play beach volleyball.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be ugly, atrocious, and humorous.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, I know nobody.

[SPEAKER_04]: Joe does not need a confidence boost.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, so if he wins, he's he's off the reservation.

[SPEAKER_04]: You you your kids train Sam Did they try to I I did train twice in the last month?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's not it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he could be both of us You but you haven't trained before that.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, he came to the class back in the year.

[SPEAKER_04]: I went for probably a month with Steve and then

[SPEAKER_04]: So now my training is watching my kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just absorbing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm going to learn?

[SPEAKER_04]: I got some more systems.

[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you get those so far, barbersick?

[SPEAKER_04]: I could choke.

[SPEAKER_04]: My kids still can't beat me.

[SPEAKER_04]: You coach like, outweigh them by a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pick a winner.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: But be gentle to them.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think here's my predict.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think Steve wins on length and leverage.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's 20 pounds heavier.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now, if Joe wins, it's going to be within about the first 30 seconds by net crank.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I could see that happening too.

[SPEAKER_04]: But based on the rules,

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, number of subs two five-minute rounds that two five-minute rounds number of five-minute rounds you guys are going to be so tough.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they're going to be as a first.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be humiliated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we don't want you to watch.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a very disturbing and humiliating day for the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I should have my daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: I should have my daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Two of us on a one?

[SPEAKER_02]: This is perfect.

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think she's still win.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's not safe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, that Jaco, I was going to say one more thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been on a protein journey for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And your chocolate protein powder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is the best like it's in my far best penny.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the monk fruit It really is like I just got to say it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do it too many times in love this So I've actually stopped chewing food at this point and just drink in Jocco's teeth right get in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right right on awesome falls.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining us Thanks for keep getting after boys.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Jocco.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Jocco

[SPEAKER_02]: And with that Sam Joe and Steve have left the building and clearly we, you know, the sauna, good for recovery.

[SPEAKER_02]: We call it a recovery, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But you got to earn recovery.

[SPEAKER_01]: Agreed I totally got I had a half hour conversation just now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's like gonna go with no about that about recovery Burning it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got a murder.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were kind the rest between sets is only useful if you have some sets Seems saying yeah, otherwise you'd just sit in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would even do it look at you

[SPEAKER_02]: MetaForce for life, we're all here to take a look at you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we got to earn the recovery.

[SPEAKER_02]: We earning it training lifting, running, sprinting, GJ2 clearly, surfing, swimming, just getting after it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what we're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: So once you earn the recovery, need to get in the recovery mode, can either I feel we recommend.

[SPEAKER_02]: what do we recommend juggle for y'all hey jugglefield.com we got everything that you need we got protein we got a proline series we got the muscle drive a lot of people are in the muscle drive right now if you're cutting weight for whatever reason

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not necessarily cutting weight like a weight cut for a fight, but even if you're just trying to drop some LBs as they used to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're on a cut, if you're on a cut, you know, the muscle drive will help preserve and strengthen when you're maybe depleting it a little bit of caloric intake.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good one for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: The pro series protein.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I'm going to go, I'm going to talk about this thing, which I mentioned already, but it's kind of going next level.

[SPEAKER_02]: this this Greek yogurt thing yeah yeah yeah the Greek yogurt hey this is the thing it's easy to make yeah you just literally dump Greek yogurt in a bowl put milk in there some protein whatever flavor you're in the mood for start up the powder home yep you're in there you're in there uh just so good and you get there's something like 45 or 50 grams of protein when you

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you need protein.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need protein in your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check out jockelfuel.com, get energy.

[SPEAKER_02]: We just finished some energy drinks here, hydrate.

[SPEAKER_02]: I sweat a lot, by the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even when I'm not in the sauna, but when I'm training, I was thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I played basketball when I was a kid Yeah, I don't know if I could technically play basketball right now because if I played in a full basketball game I think I would just be making the floor just too sweaty Right, I'd have to just one thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not you know, did you do that's kind of I mean everyone sweating So you kind of just deal with it, but in basketball if I was just fully dripping sweat Like every play under the basket people would be slips lying all of my bucket expelled from the game

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the little towel mat would have to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: He'd work over time for time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but when I sweat, get a hydration.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, jock of hydrate.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we got.

[SPEAKER_02]: We got all kinds of good the good stuff for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check out jockofield.com and get some also speaking of Getsu.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need gear for Getsu.

[SPEAKER_02]: Get American made gear.

[SPEAKER_02]: You heard Sam tell that story.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh, you make it in America cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll figure this out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look, his origin gear a little bit more expensive than something that's made by a communist to slave.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're all.

[SPEAKER_02]: We get it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It can be a little bit more pricey, as they say.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not that much more.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you right now, it is not that much more.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the quality is better.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the soul is there.

[SPEAKER_02]: They know someone's something you got from China.

[SPEAKER_02]: So check out originusa.com and get 100% 100% communist free made clothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, Jocquistore.com is where you can get your shirts and hoodies and stuff when you're representing on the path.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dislinicals freedom.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stand by to get some get after it.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are all things we can represent all on this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But whether you're in the sauna or not, by the way, we've got shorts on there.

[SPEAKER_02]: don't need a t-shirt and this on to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's why I said this short.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I guess you could.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Not like that's like the protocol, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like supposed to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or you're supposed to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you just be wasting because be dripping in sweat.

[SPEAKER_02]: So no point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's in it like skin like radiation or something like this like this thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to look into it Nonetheless When you're not in the sauna you wear a shirt a might as well represent anyway look a check out dockless door dot com you see something on there You like hey man represent get something also

[SPEAKER_01]: On Jocco store is what we call the shirt lock, which is a subscription scenario.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't sleep on this on some good designs.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times like the muster or something like this, they'll be like, oh hey, I didn't know when to down come out or whatever back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Come get came out three months ago just for that month.

[SPEAKER_01]: Same same.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you want to get these new little bit more creative designs.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what that's where it's from.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's all on Jocco store.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you, if you like something, get something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like something, get something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check out some books.

[SPEAKER_02]: Put your legs on by Rob Jones.

[SPEAKER_02]: Need to lead by Dave Burke.

[SPEAKER_02]: Extreme ownership.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like out of me, leadership.

[SPEAKER_02]: This will be a free and field manual.

[SPEAKER_02]: Leadership strategy and tactics.

[SPEAKER_02]: Field manual.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then a bunch of kids books.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check all those out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, echelon front.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have a leadership consultancy.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you need leadership inside of your company, your team, your organization.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check out echelonfront.com.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also have online training.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to check out our online training, go to extruneemownership.com and finally listen or not, finally, but I want to mention this in a couple days.

[SPEAKER_02]: There is going to be an incredible event in Scottsale, Arizona.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is Mark Lee's 48th birthday celebration, Mark was killed.

[SPEAKER_02]: in Ramadi in 2006.

[SPEAKER_02]: He carried the Mark 48 machine gun.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be his 48th birthday.

[SPEAKER_02]: A couple of his platoon mates, lead Bob Holland, who you've heard on here before, and Jake Keinbaum, another stud, Frogman.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be speaking and telling you about Mark.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you can, March 21st, in Scottsdale, Arizona, go to America's Mighty Warriors.org and check that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also check out heroes in horses.org, also Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org.

[SPEAKER_02]: For the interwebs, if you're looking for symmetry sauna, go to symmetrysana.com.

[SPEAKER_02]: They also have the Graham and the Facebook.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's at Symmestry, Symmetry, sauna, and then, for us, you can check out Jockel.com, and then on social media, Echoes on there.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's at Echo Trolls.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on there, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm at Jockel, willing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just watch out for the algorithm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks once again to Sam, Joe, and Steve for joining us and sharing some of those lessons learned of building a business here in America.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, thanks to all of our military personnel around the world right now, especially those that are over in the Middle East in harm's way, we thank you for your service and your sacrifice and wish you God's speed in your work out there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board patrol secret service, as well as all other first responders.

[SPEAKER_02]: We thank you for your service here on the home front.

[SPEAKER_02]: And everyone else out there It's not easy to build something.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not really easy to build anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not comfortable.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know cause a lot of stress But if you stick to it and you put another piece in place and you put another piece in place and you put another piece in place over time You can get that thing built

[SPEAKER_02]: as long as you keep working.

[SPEAKER_02]: So go out there and keep working.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's all we've got for tonight.

[SPEAKER_02]: Until next time, this is Echo and Jocco.