Leonard Pitts Jr joins Tavis Smiley
Leonard Pitts Jr., Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist and Director of The Center for Urban Journalism at Morgan State University, gives his analysis about President Trump's latest attacks on Black women in power such and other trending political topics.
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Speaker 1: Live from historic Limerick Park in Los Angeles, California, I'm
Tavis Smiley.
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad to see you and me back
in stride again.
Speaker 1: Before we get started with today's show, let me invite
you to follow me on Facebook and Instagram at TheRealTavisSmiley.
Get updates on X at Tavis Smiley and find me
on Substack. at tavissmiley.substack.com. By the way, should you miss
any part of today's program or want to catch up
on previous shows, you can always visit the tavissmiley.com. That's
the tavissmiley.com or wherever you get your podcast and listen
to the Tavis Smiley podcast version of this live program
at your leisure. Another great show on tap for you today.
In our second hour, two conversations. But first, I'm a
college professor and writing isn't as important as we think.
Speaker 2: Hmm. Say what?
Speaker 1: We'll talk to Williams College professor Joe Cruz about his
provocative New York Times guest editorial. I'm a college professor
and writing isn't as important as we think. I'm laughing
because I'm about to spend an hour talking to a
Pulitzer Prize winning writer named Leonard Pitts Jr. So I'm
chuckling already.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for that conversation. Top of the second hour.
Speaker 1: We'll see what Leonard Pitts thinks about writing and whether
it is as important as we think. Anyway, on the
B side of our two, October is Breast Cancer Awareness.
Speaker 2: Month, as you well know, so time for our annual
checkup with Dr.
Speaker 1: Funmi Olopade. I have talked to her for over a
decade every single year in October.
Speaker 2: Why? Glad you asked.
Speaker 1: Because I lost my longtime producer, Cheryl Flowers, to triple
negative breast cancer over a decade ago.
Speaker 3: Dr.
Speaker 1: Olopade was one of her doctors, and we became dear friends,
and she helped me understand so much more, learn so
much more about what Cheryl was navigating. Again, Cheryl lost
her fight, her battle with the triple negative, but the
progress in that, with regard to that particular cancer, the
progress over the last decade has been so remarkable. If
Cheryl had survived a little bit longer, she might still
be here. Again, the progress with regard to triple negative,
which takes out more black women than anybody else, is
really quite stunning.
Speaker 2: So we talked to Dr. Olapade. I do every single
year in October.
Speaker 1: In honor of Cheryl and all of the lives that
I hope we can save with the research on breast cancer.
In our third hour, two more conversations. First, GOP strategist
and former comms director, communications director for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy,
Mark Bednar, on whether and how Republicans withstand and navigate
the much-anticipated blue wave. On the B side of our three,
the Real Hip Hop Network is back. We'll talk to
Anton Muhammad, CEO and Chairman of But we commence today's show,
as I mentioned a moment ago, talking politics and more
with the Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and director of the
Center for Urban Journalism at Morgan State University, Leonard Pitts, Jr.
Speaker 2: Leonard, always a blessing to hear your voice, man. How
are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing the best I can.
Speaker 1: You heard me say a moment ago, I'm talking to
a professor in the second hour who has written a
provocative piece for The New York Times entitled Writing Isn't
As Important As We Think. I'm sure you've not read
the piece yet, but did you chuckle when I said that?
Speaker 3: Well, that would be one word. I saw the piece.
I didn't bother to read it. Perhaps I should have.
I would just say this, that for me at least,
writing is a way of organizing thoughts. And if you
look at all the unorganized thinking that we seem to
be dealing with in our social and political lives, I
can't imagine. I'd like to read his reasoning before I
go too hard, but it's hard for me to imagine
that anybody would think we need less writing. I think
we need more people able to write with more clarity
because my hope is that that would lead to more
clarity of thought and action.
Speaker 2: Nope, I think you're right about that.
Speaker 1: I'm anxious myself to delve into a dialogue with the professor.
at Williams College about why he thinks that writing isn't
quite as important as we think. His name is Joe Cruz.
We'll stick around for the top of the second hour
for that dialogue. The rest of this hour with a
Pulitzer Prize winning writer, Leonard Pitts Jr.
Speaker 2: There's a lot to cover. When we come forward, I'll
start with, this is nothing new for Donald Trump, but
of late he has gone in.
Speaker 1: You all saw, of course, the raid on the home
of Representative Ilhan Omar. But that's just one piece, right?
We'll talk about that when we come forward. He is
on the warpath again. as if he ever stopped, when
it comes to attacking women. So he has raided the home,
his administration, of Ilhan Omar. He called Attorney General Letitia James,
a day or so ago, disgusting, and he called her
a dog following her appointment to the Cornell rape case.
So he has called Letitia James disgusting and a dog.
You probably heard yesterday, maybe on this program, that he
has formed a committee inside the White House to investigate
Lisa Cook, in a renewed attempt to fire the African-American
Fed governor who pushed him to the wall, took her
case to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court essentially ruled
in her favor, ostensibly. So he's back on the warpath
again when it comes to African-American women.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that for starters and more to cover
in this hour.
Speaker 1: With Leonard Pitts Jr., you're listening to Tavis Smiley. Tavis
Smiley and Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Leonard Pitts Jr., who's director
of the Center for Urban Journalism at Morgan State University.
Let me apologize right now on.
Speaker 2: Behalf of Leonard.
Speaker 1: It ain't his fault. Leonard's booked today in our first hour.
Always pleased to have him. He is on the road,
and he's in a hotel. And anybody who's traveled knows
that when they promise you your room's going to be ready, halftime,
it ain't. So you're in the hotel lobby waiting to
get in your room, and he's booked on the show.
And we dare not cancel any time with Leonard Pitts Jr.,
but you're going to hear a little background noise. Perhaps
he's hiding out in the hotel lobby waiting to get
into the quiet space of his room.
Speaker 2: So if you hear some background noise, he'll talk a
little louder.
Speaker 1: I'll do my best. To get through this hour, we
apologize again for the ambient sound that you're going to
hear for the rest of this hour. So when he
doesn't get in his room at the half-hour break, we
shall see. But we're going to press forward because it's
live radio and the show, as they say, must go on.
So that's why Leonard is not signing. It's clear, as
he normally does, it happens. Anyway, all that said, I
mentioned I want to start with this attack, these attacks, plural,
that Donald Trump is leveraging, waging once again against so
many African-American women. You all, again, saw the story of
the raid on the home of Congresswoman Ilhan Omar of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Let me quote from her, first of all, after the raid.
I am OK. Make no mistake. This is an attempt
to target political enemies and weaponize federal law enforcement. For
10 years, Trump has targeted me with baseless lies and
smear campaigns. This is just the latest escalation in his
campaign of political intimidation.
Speaker 2: I will not be silenced.
Speaker 1: Before I play this clip of her colleague, another squad member,
Ayanna Pressley of Boston, about this Ilhan Omar raid. Before
I play that, let me just say to you that, again,
when she suggests to you that Trump's been on her
back for 10 years, that's a long time to be
targeted by one with the power and the stature of
Donald Trump. But it is also the case that the
Justice Department has a longstanding policy of not doing anything
publicly with regard to elected officials, unless it is a
matter of national security. They do nothing with regard to
investigations of elected officials when they're on the ballot within
60 days of an election. That is a long standing
policy because you make a move and the move that
you make ends up impacting an election. And that's not
fair to either of the candidates who may be impacted
by whatever the Department of Justice does in such a
public way. So it is historically not the pattern or
the process or the procedure of the Department of Justice
to do anything, anything like this 60 days away from
Election Day. And clearly we're 20, what, less than three
weeks now away from Election Day. So we're squarely inside
the 60 days. But that did not stop Donald Trump
or his Justice Department from raiding the home of Ilhan Omar,
knowing it was going to be going to become a
major story as she's running for reelection.
Speaker 2: In Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: So that's just the framework that we find ourselves in
about the way things ought to be done, typically are done,
but not in this particular case. All that said, let
me play this clip from Ayanna Pressley about the Ihan
Omar raid, and then we'll jump to Leonard Pitts Jr.
Speaker 2: Take a listen.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know how many more examples people need
that we are living in a fascist state. This hostile
administration continues to weaponize the Department of Justice against their
political enemies. He has had Representative Omar, who is a
very effective congresswoman, a union member who has fought for,
you know, the humanity of all people, but especially workers.
Speaker 3: Rights, delivered school-free... I'm.
Speaker 4: Sorry, stop.
Speaker 2: Free lunches to our children.
Speaker 4: She's been a leader in so many ways. She's also
a dear friend of mine.
Speaker 2: But this is so much.
Speaker 4: Bigger than Congresswoman Omar. Again, this Department of Justice has
been weaponized against the likes of Tish James, of Lisa Cook,
of LaMonica McIver. It is an administration, a fascist administration,
that is fear-mongering. They are fear-mongering heading into our elections.
They are creating, they seek to create a chilling effect
throughout this country.
Speaker 1: I guess ambient sound is the phrase of the day.
Everything I'm doing has background noise.
Speaker 2: Y'all forget.
Speaker 3: Me.
Speaker 2: Lord help me. Just background noise everywhere. We'll push our
way through it.
Speaker 1: But that was Ayanna Pressley again talking about the Ilhan
Omar raid. But she made a powerful point, which I
said a moment ago. It's not just Ilhan Omar. It
is Donald Trump calling Letitia James disgusting and a dog
after the governor, Kathy Hochul, in New York reported her
to be in charges according to a rape case. It
is Donald Trump once again going after Lisa Cook at
the Fed. Won't let that situation be. It's Monica McIver
in New Jersey, targeted by the Trump administration. Donald Trump
has a thing about black women. Leonard Pitts Jr., I
digress for now. The mic is yours, sir.
Speaker 3: I can't say anything that you and Representative Presley could
not already say. I've never seen a man Not just
so scared, but so nakedly scared. Ordinarily, you try to
hide it. You try to approach it with some kind
of cool or some kind of subtlety. But subtlety is
not in the man's repertoire. It's just amazing how, like
I said, not just how afraid he is of these women,
but how nakedly afraid. I think strong women give Donald
Trump a problem. I think he really doesn't know how
to deal with. women who are not fawning all over him,
like Natalie, what's her name, his aide. But, you know,
this may come as a shock to him, but women
are people. Wow. With functioning minds and agency and autonomy
of their own. And it's a shame that that has
to be said, much less to the President of the
United States, in the year of our Lord, 2026. But
that seems to be where we are now. Anytime he
finds a woman that he cannot control or that does
not kowtow to him, he seems to be at sea
with it, at a loss with it. And it's not,
you know, I mean, it's black women, I think, you know, predominantly,
I think, but... I also keep thinking of Caitlin Collins,
the CNN anchor, who he's got this weird thing about
making her smile. That is the creepiest thing for an
80-year-old man to be demanding of a 30-some-year-old woman, why
don't you smile at me more? Something is wrong there, man.
I mean, the fashion, yes, that Ayanna Pressley mentioned, it definitely...
part and parcel of this, but just mentally for that individual,
there is something. The elevator is not going all the
way to the top floor. The cheese is slipping off
the cracker. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: The cheese is slipping off the cracker.
Speaker 3: The cheese is off the cracker.
Speaker 1: That's why he's a Pulitzer Prize winner. I'm thinking now
of Chick Hearn. For you Laker fans, you recall all
the Chick Hearn statements. The mustard is off the hot dog.
The mustard is off the hot dog.
Speaker 2: The cheese is slipping off the cracker. I love it.
And yet, no naivete here. I take your point. He's
attacking these black women. And you're right.
Speaker 1: It's not just black women he's attacked, but he continues
to surround himself with all these blondes. And I'm not
making a diss about blondes. I'm just saying that it's
hard to look at Donald Trump inside the press room
or anywhere else and not see that he likes to
surround himself with blondes. Leonard, how do I read that? So,
I mean, but this attack on black women. it just
stands out in that regard, at least to me.
Speaker 3: You read it correctly. The interesting thing, you know, Trump's,
if you look at a picture of Trump's administration, it
could be Eisenhower's from 1955, you know, just racially, but
But with the exception of the fact that so many
of the people now are women, which Eisenhower obviously wouldn't
have had, and they're all these blonde women. And like you,
I'm not making the whole dumb blonde this, but I
am saying that apparently he has a type. And when
you conform to that type, pretty slash blonde... you basically
have an in with him or you have credibility with
him that has nothing to do with your actual ability
to get a job done. It's become so obvious that
it's embarrassing.
Speaker 2: Well, his type is his daughter, but I ain't going there.
Much has been written about that.
Speaker 4: No, no.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 2: He said it himself.
Speaker 3: Exactly. He said it himself. If she wasn't my daughter.
Speaker 1: He did say it. He did say it. If she
weren't my daughter, we're going to leave that alone today.
We're going to leave that alone. Let me flip this
on you completely. Now that we've talked about Donald Trump
attacking all these black women again, Monica McIver and Tish
James and Ilhan Omar and even Ayanna Pressley and Lisa
Cook and Fannie Willis down in Georgia.
Speaker 2: Remember her?
Speaker 1: Obviously Kamala Harris, because that was his opponent, but the
attacks on Kamala were beyond the pale in many respects.
But here's the flip side of that argument to me,
or the flip side of this conversation, is that it
is interesting in 2026, as you say, the year of
our Lord, 2026, that these black women are empowered in
the way that they are. There's no way that they
become targets of Donald Trump if they aren't in the
seats of power that they occupy.
Speaker 2: And I find that fascinating. Let me put another layer
on it.
Speaker 1: I find it even more fascinating that the persons who
have had the opportunity and the duty to hold Donald
Trump responsible in a legal framework, many of them happen
to be African-American. I'm talking about Tish James in New York.
I'm talking about the DA in Manhattan. I'm talking about
Fannie Willis. Isn't it fascinating that Again, these persons are
being attacked, these black women in particular, because they happen
to be in positions of power. And again, beyond that,
so many of the folk who we have seen hold
Donald Trump accountable inside the legal framework happen to be
black folk. To your point about Eisenhower, we were not
in position to do that years ago, Leonard.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, as I wrote in a sub stack a week
or so ago, accountability is something that he has never known.
You know, according to his to his niece, you know,
he paid somebody to take it to SATs and had
somebody else doing his homework. First kept him out of Vietnam.
You know, every legal thing that he's come up against,
he somehow managed to weasel out of. He's filed out
on Nabucco bankruptcies. and left creditors holding the bag. So
accountability is not something that this 80-year-old man has ever known.
And now I think to find himself being faced with
even the possibility of accountability is bad enough, but to
have it come from people that he disregards and denigrates
and condescends to, based not just on gender but also
on skin color, I think it's probably a bridge too
far for him.
Speaker 4: You're right.
Speaker 3: I don't think he likes accountability at all. But the
idea that it's coming from black women, I think it's
particularly odious to him. He can't fathom that.
Speaker 1: You referenced a moment ago that the cheese is coming
off the cracker in your assessment of Donald Trump slipping cognitively.
And I come back to this. We've discussed this a
few times here and there, but I come back to it.
Once again, because the mainstream media seems not to see
it the way you and I see it. They seem
not to cover this. We could not get enough of
the mainstream media that is couldn't get enough of the
cognitive decline story as it related to then President Joe Biden.
And yet, with the evidence that we see every single day,
the mainstream media has still has still not leaned into
this story about Donald Trump's mental acuity. No naivete here,
but why do you think that is, with all the
evidence that we have to, I think, prove the point?
Speaker 3: You know, I have no earthly idea. I wish I
knew that myself. I know that we've seen in the
last 20 years a couple of epic media fails. You know,
media failed to adequately probe the reasons for going to
war with Iran. And I'm not just saying this as opinion.
This is a media consensus, and and in some cases
have been demonstrated by actual academic study. Media also over-reported
Hillary Clinton's so-called baggage while basically ignoring Donald Trump. And
now we, during the 2015 campaign, and now we have
this going on. And what's killing me is that, okay,
it was a tapper, I believe it was, that CNN
wrote the book, on Biden's mental acuity or lack thereof.
And a lot of people were very angry at the
timing of it. You know, he positioned it as, okay,
it's tough but fair journalism. Okay, fine. So where is
the tough but fair journalism now? Where's the book or
the stories or the something? Because it is painfully obvious
to me, and I don't have a degree in this stuff,
but it's painfully obvious to me that something's not... you know,
not firing on all cylinders up there in Donald Trump's head.
You know, something is wrong. I mean, even wronger than
it was 10 years ago. If you look at the
guy 20 years back, you may not have liked him,
but he was at least, there was a sharpness there
that is not here now. He's got a vocabulary of
about 250 words. It's just appalling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jake Tapper.
Speaker 1: I've known Jake for years, and I tend to like
Jake Tapper as a person, but Leonard raises the issue.
Is Jake Tapper working on a book about Donald Trumps?
Speaker 2: Cognitive decline? I think not. Let's call Jake and ask him.
Where's that manuscript, Jake? And this is the problem.
Speaker 1: I know a bunch of folk who are still mad
at Jake Tapper because here you are, a member of
the media. We see the political leanings of CNN. And
for Jake Tapper, this ain't Sean Hannity writing this book.
This is Jake Tapper who wrote the book, The Smackdown
of Joe Biden. Again, to Leonard's point, the book itself,
much less the timing of the book, was problematic. But
I'm also glad that Leonard mentioned Hillary Clinton and the server.
I'm bringing this thing full circle.
Speaker 2: Stay with me here.
Speaker 1: You see why you don't do this stuff this close
to Election Day? James Comey. And James Comey is a Democrat.
And so we all recall the damage that James Comey
did to Hillary Rodham Clinton that close to Election Day.
Ilhan Omar being subjected to that now. But this is
precisely why When you're this close to Election Day, the
Department of Justice has to be more circumspect about what
they do, when they do it, and how they do it.
Exhibit A, again, Hillary Clinton. I digress for now. More
with Leonard Pitts, Jr. when we come forward on Tavis Smart.
Tavis Smart, Leonard Pitts, Jr., a Pulitzer Prize winning columnist,
director of the Center for Urban Journalism at Morgan State University,
stuck in a hotel lobby and yet doing his duty
anyway in this first hour as he does so eloquently.
Please always to be in conversation with this brilliant mind. Leonard,
I'm following you as I always do since you went there.
I'm going to play a couple of clips in a
second of Donald Trump and then Letitia James responding to
Donald Trump. In case you've just tuned in, we've been
talking today at the onset of this program about Donald
Trump and these vicious attacks he's waging once again against
African-American women. He announced the White House did, I guess, 24,
36 hours ago. They're going out to Lisa Cook again,
the sister at the Fed, first black woman on the Fed.
Donald Trump does not like Lisa Cook. He's been trying
to get rid of her. This case went all the
way to the Supreme Court. And Lisa Cook received a
reprieve because she dug her heels in and fought back.
Donald Trump, none too happy with that Supreme Court decision,
has decided that the White House is itself now going
to investigate Lisa Cook. So you know where that investigation
is headed. But he's after Lisa Cook once again. He
called Letitia James. You'll hear him on tape in just
a second. Calling her disgusting and a dog. She's the AG,
of course, in New York State. mad at her for
a lot of reasons, not the least of which is
she took him to the mat and won her case
against Donald Trump. And so he called her disgusting and
a dog. He is after, they've been after Monica McIver
in New Jersey. You know, of course, they raided the
home of Ilhan Omar. So he is in, he's in
his feelings about black women and is, we are experiencing
just another round of these assaults, these vicious attacks on
black women in particular. Before I play this audio, though, Leonard,
you mentioned Hillary Clinton earlier, and I am fascinated to
get your take on this.
Speaker 2: I was trying to recall, what do I.
Speaker 1: Remember Leonard writing about this when it happened some years ago?
But we were talking about the Justice Department having a
policy of not doing certain things inside of 60 days
of an election day, and yet James Comey, many people
still believe to this day, did some irreparable damage to
Hillary Clinton, in part, perhaps, that's one of the reasons
why she lost that race. What do you recall saying
about that at the moment, at the time?
Speaker 3: I don't recall what I wrote. It was kind of
a confusing time. I don't know if I saw the
whole picture in the moment, but it's obvious looking back
that James Comey made a gargantuan mistake, and I think
he did so in trying to preserve his own self-image
of a man of rectitude and honor and whatever, so
I hope he feels good about himself. He didn't do
too much good for the country.
Speaker 1: No, he did not and did no good for Hillary Clinton,
but we'll leave that where it is. As my grandmother said,
we're going to leave it lay where the good Lord
done flung it, at least for now. Here is Donald
Trump on Letitia James, and we'll play Letitia James on
Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Miles Lowe, go.
Speaker 1: Like nobody ever in the history of politics.
Speaker 2: There's never been anything like.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 2: And on election day, New Yorkers should tell both Hochul
and that.
Speaker 1: Disgusting Letitia dog.
Speaker 2: You see that dog?
Speaker 3: You're fired.
Speaker 2: Get the hell out of here. You're fired.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: That's ugly.
Speaker 1: Disgusting and a dog. He calls Letitia James the AG
in New York State. Letitia James, of course, had her
say on a couple of days ago at the Abyssinian
Baptist Church in Harlem.
Speaker 2: Take a listen.
Speaker 5: The president called me a dog. The Republican who is
running for governor of the state of New York called
me a really racist word yesterday. So I've come here
on men's day. Because I need Abyssinian to stand up
and to say racism will not be tolerated in the state.
Speaker 2: Of New York.
Speaker 5: I've come here today to remind all of you of
the precious right to vote and how our ancestors died
for that right. And the best way, the only way.
That we can deal is when we stand in line
in quiet defiance to all that they are doing in
this nation and dividing us based on race and all
other constructs.
Speaker 2: Let them know that the power is in our.
Speaker 5: Hand and Abyssinian, release it. Release it on election day,
early voting day. Let them know that you will.
Speaker 2: Not get away. With all this racism, you will.
Speaker 4: Not put children in cages.
Speaker 5: You will not separate families. That we come from a
good God, and our God never fails.
Speaker 2: God bless you, Abyssinians. That sounds like the right Reverend Dr.
Speaker 1: Suffolk and Bishop Monsignor Letitia James going in. But I've
been in the pulpit, spoken any number of times at Abyssinian,
and they can push you at Abyssinian, so I ain't
mad at Letitia James. I want to go back to
that one comment she made, Leonard, that racism, let them
know that racism will not be tolerated in New York.
And you and I both know on steroids, racism is
being tolerated now, not just in New York, but all
across this country. And the calendar still reads 2026. But
that reality is unabated, Leonard.
Speaker 3: It's not just tolerated. It's embraced. It's like, it's like, hello.
I'm sorry. I'm remembering an old Paul Simon lyric. Hello, darkness,
my old friend. It's like, you know, they're just like,
you know, hey, where have you been? Missed you. You know,
it's like that old love that you haven't seen for
a while. A lot of people are just like, you know,
they are really pleased to be able to embrace that
thing again. I'll say this.
Speaker 2: When.
Speaker 3: I'm reminded of when Trump first came to office a
second time, and you remember the reason a lot of
us are mad and don't shop at Target to this day,
that before he said anything, they dumped their DEI initiative,
if you recall that.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: And I've always thought the reason was, okay, now it's
safe for us to be here. You know, we don't
have to pretend anymore. You know, that's what I mean
when I say hello darkness, hello racism, my old friend.
It's like, okay, we're back. You know, we can do it.
And it's not that it ever went away, but at
least you were required to pretend. At least, you know,
I have this thing that if you care enough about me,
you will lie to me. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, if I don't care what you think,
that I'm to say any crazy thing but if I
can't if your feeling matters to me then I'm then
I'm a lie to you at the very least it's
perverse but there's a certain amount of respect in certain
instances can somebody bother bothering to tell you a lie
they ain't bothering they're not bothering to lie to us
anymore about how they feel about us you hear what
I'm saying yeah they're not bothering to lie to lie
to us anymore they are pretty straight up it doesn't
get any straighter any more blatant than you're a disgusting
dog yeah No, that's that's pretty that's pretty straight. And
I will say, let me say one one final thing.
I'm not sure if this country can be saved, but
if it is to be saved, I think black women
will be leading the charge.
Speaker 1: Let's unpack that. Now, that's a mouthful. And speaking of provocative,
I am not sure.
Speaker 2: Leonard Pitts Jr.
Speaker 1: Says that America's can be saved. But if America can
be saved, black women can. are going to lead the charge.
I got three questions right now about that statement. This
is about to get good. You're listening to Leonard Pitts Jr.
on Tavis Smiley.
Speaker 2: Leonard Pitts Jr.
Speaker 1: Kicked off a conversation here in our studio and he
suggested moments ago that I'm not sure that America can
be saved, but if it can be, he said, I
believe that black women are going to lead the way.
And the minute you said that, three or four things
popped into my head. Let me set this up right
quickly and I'll yield the balance of my time to you.
I am thinking about the conversation that Harry Belafonte and Dr.
Speaker 2: King had many years ago where Dr.
Speaker 1: King, after all he had done, said to Mr. B, Harry,
I think for all that we have done, we have
integrated into a burning house.
Speaker 3: Mr.
Speaker 2: Belafonte looked at Dr.
Speaker 1: King and said, Martin, if you think we've integrated into
a burning house, what do we do now?
Speaker 3: Dr.
Speaker 1: King said, Harry, we have to become firemen. We have
to save this democracy from itself. That issue came up
at one of our State of the Black Union annual
symposium in Chicago, Chicago State. Many of you have seen it.
The clip has been seen literally millions and millions and
millions of times. I was moderating that day. This issue
came up. And long story short, Minister Farrakhan leaned into
that story on stage that day and said, I love
Brother Harry, but I disagree.
Speaker 2: My view is let it burn.
Speaker 1: Let this sucker burn to the ground. And that comment
from the brother minister set up set off a conversation
that day.
Speaker 2: Dr. West, Cornel West at the table. Dr.
Speaker 1: West, I recall, said, Brother Farrakhan, I love you, but
we can't let it burn to the ground because our
babies are in this house. Our mamas and daddies are
in this house. I mean, it was just an amazing conversation.
You can find that conversation anywhere on social media and
see it for yourself.
Speaker 2: But I thought about that. Why? Glad you asked.
Speaker 1: I thought about it because Leonard says if the country
can be saved, black women are going to lead the way,
which leads me to ask two or three questions and
I'll stand down. One, do black women care enough at
this point about this democracy that this experiment in democracy,
given how maltreated they have been by this republic, do
they care enough to save the democracy?
Speaker 2: Number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, do we respect and regard black women enough
to let them lead us out of this wilderness?
Speaker 2: We would rather just die in the wilderness.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't let Kamala lead us out the wilderness. So
I hear your point, Leonard, but I digress for now.
The microphone's yours.
Speaker 3: I think black women would care for the same reason that,
was it Cornel West? She said that our children are
in this house. Our babies are in this house. Our blood, sweat,
and tears are in this house. So I don't think
that the option of not caring is there on the table.
The reason I think black women are uniquely positioned to
do this is twofold. Some of us in America have
been denigrated on the basis of our gender. You know, women.
A little better than half the human race. And it's
subjected to just repression all over the world, and particularly here.
Some of us in this country have been denigrated on
account of our skin color, our race. Black women have
had to deal with both. Now, One of two things
can happen when you face this sort of double whammy.
You can keel over and you can submit to it,
which I think is what people keep, you know, like Mr.
Trump and others keep expecting is going to happen, or
you become stronger. Now, I hate to bring up the
whole concept of the strong black women because some sisters
have said, and I think they have a good point,
why should I always have to be strong? Mm-hmm. You know,
why can't I just be a human being sometimes? Why
can't I be, you know, weak when I'm feeling weak?
And I hear that and I feel that. But the
bottom line is that that strength, if this country can
be saved, is what is going to, and I mean
not just physical strength, but moral strength, intellectual strength, soul
strength or soul force, as Dr. King used to talk about.
I think that those things, if we can be saved,
that's what's going to lead us out of this. I mean,
not to diss my brothers, but to diss my brothers,
I think it was a little less than one in
five or something like that, some incredible number, voted for
the individual who currently occupies 1600 Pennsylvania. I mean, that's
a shameful number. That is a shameful fact of life.
And yet black women will never, you know, black women's number,
they know this fool for what he is, and they
have not been persuaded. They have not chosen to go
along with this crazy okey-doke. Some of us, even as
black men, and as black men by dint of being
black men, we should know better. But black women being
both black and women, they definitely have known better. Black women,
I mean white women, haven't known better. They've supported this okey-doke,
which is against them, which is against their gender. Black
women have consistently and always known better.
Speaker 4: Nope.
Speaker 1: You're right about that. And it's because of those white
women that Donald Trump sits in the White House. If
white women had behaved inside the ballot booth, if they'd
behaved like black women behaved, Donald Trump wouldn't be president.
We have traversed that terrain many times on this program.
Our remaining moments with Leonard Pitts Jr. when we come
forward on Tavis Smile. Indeed, I close this hour with
Leonard Pitts Jr. in a little under three minutes with this,
the audience. is listening and the audience is responding, Leonard,
to the conversation you and I've had about black women
and the attack and the assault they're under by Donald Trump.
And to Leonard's powerful point that if this democracy is
to be saved, black women, he believes, are going to
lead the way. Here is but one comment that I
have time to read before I lose Leonard at the
top of the hour.
Speaker 2: A dog, a dog.
Speaker 1: It is this kind of dehumanization, Tavish, that allowed the
elimination of any conscience as a barrier to the institutional
brutality of chattel slavery. This is not just an attack
on Letitia James.
Speaker 2: It is a warning to all black folk.
Speaker 1: We will lead the way because unless you are a
black woman with a child or children, it's hard to
imagine the force and power that courses through us in
defense of our babies. The other side is white folks'
refusal to acknowledge that racism is used to pick their pockets.
And I've had conversations with my friends about this. Some
will believe that they are willing to let it burn
down in defense of the idea of white supremacy. I
close with this question based on that comment by one
of our listeners. Is what Donald Trump and Republicans are
doing right about now a warning letter to all black folk,
not just Letitia Jane?
Speaker 3: It's a warning to all black folk and frankly all
folk who are listening. Because, yeah, they talk about burning
down the house. They have proven that they are willing
to burn down the houses. rather than have the house
include people like you and me and your correspondent there.
They've proven that. And only now, with gas spiking at,
I hear, $ 6 and $ 7 a gallon in some places,
only now are some of them starting, beginning to have
second thoughts. Just beginning to have second thoughts. Well, wait
a minute. The truckers who got in their trucks, to
form the convoy a few years ago in support of
this guy can't even do that anymore because they can't
afford to cost the diesel. And even at that, only
are they now beginning to have second thoughts. That should
tell you something. Yep. Nope.
Speaker 1: It does tell us something. And whenever Leonard Pitts Jr.
shows up, he tells us something. He tells us a
lot of somethings. And we're always honored to have him
lead us off in the first hour to his point
about the price of gas at $ 7 in some places.
Speaker 2: Yes. like here in L.A. I filled up last night, $ 126. 05.
Speaker 1: That's what I did last night, $ 126.
Speaker 2: 05.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping track of this because it's breaking my little
piggy bank to fill my car up.
Speaker 2: I am grateful to Leonard Pitts Jr.
Speaker 1: Always being on this program, but I'm especially grateful today
because he's in a hotel, a lobby, waiting for his room,
and he did not beg off of doing the show.
because of the inconvenience of having to talk with that
ambient noise in the background. But, Leonard, thank you for
your insights. Thank you for journeying through this hour. Enjoy
the rest of your day, and I hope you get
in your hotel room sometime soon.
Speaker 3: My pleasure. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2: All right. Hour one down, two more hours to go.
You are listening, and I'm glad about it, Tavis Smith.