Shermichael Singleton joins Tavis Smiley
Shermichael Singleton, conservative CNN contributor and co-founder of the We The Free TV streaming network, shares his thoughts on President Trump’s alleged weaponization of government agencies against Black appointed and elected officials, along with other trending topics.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tavis-smiley--6286410/support.
Speaker 1: Live from historic Leimert Park in Los Angeles, California, I'm
Tavis Smiley, and I'm so glad to see you and
me back in stride again. Before we get started with
today's show, let me invite you to follow me on
Facebook and Instagram at TheRealTavisSmiley. Get updates on X at
Tavis Smiley and find me on Substack at TavisSmiley.Substack.com. By
the way, should you miss any part of today's program
or want to catch up on previous shows, you can
always visit the TavisSmileyShow.com. That's the TavisSmileyShow.com or wherever you
get your podcasts. And listen to the Tavis Smiley podcast
version of this live program at your leisure. Another great
show on tap for you today in our second hour,
a celebration of Chuck Berry's 100th birthday today.
Speaker 2: Deep down in Louisiana, close to New Orleans Way back
up in the woods among the evergreens There.
Speaker 1: Stood a log cabin made of earth and wood Where
lived a country.
Speaker 3: Boy named Johnny B. Goode Who never ever learned to
read or write so well But he could play a
guitar just like a ring in.
Speaker 1: A bell Go, go Go, Johnny, go, go Go, Johnny, go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go.
Speaker 3: Johnny be good.
Speaker 1: It's Chuck Berry's centennial. We'll be joined in our two
by famed director Taylor Hackford, who filmed the 1987 documentary Hail, Hail,
Rock and Roll. On the B side of our two,
Marvin Berry celebrates the centennial birth of his cousin, With
reflections and a preview of the upcoming Back to the
Future Day in honor of Chuck Berry. It's fascinating for
the last year. All the major artists who've celebrated their
100th birthday. Chuck Berry today. Remember that, Miles? We did
who else? We did Miles Davis, 100 in the last year.
John Coltrane just a few weeks ago. Amazing. All these
major artists, black artists who are celebrating. We are celebrating
their centennial. We'll honor-brate. We'll honor-brate. Put two words together.
We'll honor and celebrate Chuck Berry. There's a new word
for you, honor-brate. Let's have a smiley dictionary. It's Chuck
Berry's 100th. We'll do that today in Hour 2. In
our third hour, two more conversations. Up first, we'll be
joined live in studio by California Democratic gubernatorial candidate, former
Secretary of Health and Human Services in the Biden era,
Javier Becerra. Looking forward to that. Javier Becerra comes live
in studio today. on the top side of our third hour.
On the B side of our three, award-winning actor, director, producer,
and author Eric LaSalle takes us inside his latest propulsive
crime thriller. It's called Laws of Solomon. It is the
fourth installment of his acclaimed Martyr Maker series. So Javier
Becerra at the top of our three. We'll close today's
show on the backside of our three with Eric LaSalle.
But we commence today's show talking politics and more with
conservative CNN contributor and co-founder of the We The Free
TV streaming network, Shermichael Singleton. Shermichael, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4: I am doing great, Travis.
Speaker 1: I can hear.
Speaker 4: You, man. You got a great show today.
Speaker 1: Man, I try that every day. It doesn't always work out.
I was telling somebody the other day at dinner, you
can't do three hours every day and think that every
hour or every half hour is going to be all
that and then some. We do our best, but it's
the nature of doing a live show. You know something
about that, hosting your own shows in the past and
your own network. And we see you on CNN all
the time. And it ain't a grand slam every day
or every night, but you do your best and try
to give the people what they want, as the O.J.
Speaker 4: Said.
Speaker 1: Going to be a full hour with Sir Michael Singleton.
Let me start with this. I'm going to play this
for you now. When we come forward, I'll let him
unpack it. We spent a lot of time yesterday and
the day before, frankly. It's been one of those weeks
where we have been talking about Donald Trump going in
on black women in particular, whether it's calling the Disha
James disgusting, And a dog, the AG in New York,
raiding the home of Johan Omar in DC. Of course,
he represents Minneapolis. What else this week? Lisa Cook is
back in his crosshairs at the Fed trying to get
rid of Lisa Cook. And on and on I could
go just in this week alone with Donald Trump targeting,
in particular, black women. What is that about? Here is
Hakeem Jeffries on this particular issue. Take a listen.
Speaker 5: Are you concerned that more members of your caucus are
going to be targeted? I just right now we've got
Ilhan Omar. I'm thinking about Congresswoman LaMonica McIver, who is
currently facing 17 years in prison for a felony if
she is convicted for doing her job, I would argue.
What are you doing to protect your members from this? Well,
it's not just a threat at this point. The government
is making good on this promises of retribution.
Speaker 2: As Congresswoman Ilhan Omar has bravely and heroically and courageously said,
she's not going to be intimidated and she won't be silenced.
And we're not going to be intimidated and we won't
be silenced. What we have seen is this Trump Department
of Justice, which is going to be held accountable, weaponize
the criminal justice system against people they perceive to be
adversaries of Donald Trump. We've seen them go after Jerome Powell.
We've seen them go after Lisa Cook. We've seen them
go after Tish James. They've gone after LaMonica MacGyver. They've
gone after James Comey. And now, of course, they're targeting
Ilhan Omar. And it's not clear to me why these crooks,
these political hacks, think that they're going to be in
a position to get away with this.
Speaker 1: Is it just me or every time you hear Hakeem
Jeffries say They ain't getting away with this. We're going
to hold them accountable. We're going to hold accountable every
member of this cartel. I like Hakeem, and yet every
single time he says it, it sounds hollow. I'm just
not buying it. I don't think Democrats are going to
do anything or much of anything to really hold them accountable.
Just a bunch of talk from my perspective, but I
could be wrong. This hour belongs to Sir Michael Singleton
when we come forward here on Tavis Money. Tavis Money.
Speaker 3: This show was built for you, for the community, for
the culture, for everyone who wants more than headlines, for
everyone who wants meaning. Tavis Smiley has always believed that
public media can change.
Speaker 1: Just getting started with Michael Singleton. There's breaking news right now.
We'll talk about this a little later in this hour.
I promise you. Donald Trump has just announced plans to
cancel the live stream of the Fort Hood shooters execution.
Major Nadal Malik Hassan. We discussed that a few days
ago and what that would mean were they to live
stream this execution between Thanksgiving and December. Thanksgiving and Christmas, actually.
First week of December. That was a stupid idea to
begin with, but I digress on that for now. But
Donald Trump has just announced that they will not be
live streaming the Fort Hood shooter's execution. We'll come back
to that later with Shermichael Singleton. All right, Shermichael, lots
to do in this hour. Glad you're with us for
the full hour. Always pleased to have you on to
lead us off. leadoff batter, given that we're in baseball
season right now. Go Dodgers. Anyway, talk to me about
your boy. What's up with Donald Trump attacking, assaulting, going
in on all these black women?
Speaker 4: Well, look, I'll start. I'm going to save Ilhan Omar last.
I'll start with New York Attorney General Tish James. Look,
I certainly do not agree with her politics, but I
thought it was interesting. I remember when this investigation the
first time was launched or publicly acknowledged against, I think,
a couple of months ago, earlier this year, and I
was on CNN. And I remember reading through at least
the first couple of pages of what they were alleging
in terms of the mortgage fraud. And it was interesting
to me. I remember saying at the time, well, this
is a bit ironic because some of the charges were
similar charges that were launched against now President Trump, than
public citizen Trump during the previous administration. And so I
just thought it was a little ironic because these types
of charges are really, really easy to bring against someone.
I mean, I don't know if you recall Marilyn Mosby
out of Baltimore when the Biden DOJ went after her
with similar, almost exact same types of charges. It was
an error on the application. So I thought it was
just a bit ridiculous, a waste of political capital, a
waste of time. You're not getting anything out of this.
The same thing with Dr. Lisa Cook. I mean, this
is all part of the president wanting to remove people
who did not want to lower interest rates when he
demanded it because of the economic conditioning of the country.
And it's like, hey, man, like removing a Fed chair
isn't going to necessarily mean that the next replacement is
going to lower interest rates because they are really tasked
to try to stabilize the economic conditioning of the country
and spur more growth while making sure inflation doesn't rise
as a result of spurring growth. And so these are
just sort of the complicated things that the president doesn't
always like when he's not getting his way. And so
in typical fashion, when he doesn't get his way and
he wants to remove people. But I said then publicly
and even to some of his closer advisors, we need
to be really careful with some of these things, particularly
the economy, because what you don't want is to make
things transitory. Then we find ourselves in a recession. And
that's the last thing you want going up into midterms.
And this was last year, of course. And here we
are at midterms. Interest rates have gone back up a
couple months ago. Fed chairs articulated the possibility of raising
rates again next year. The inflation is going up, I think,
a point or two, 20 days before midterms. So none
of these things are good, whether you like them or not.
And sometimes wanting to replace someone to get the results
that you think will improve things will actually have a
deleterious effect, the opposite effect of what you may want.
That said, as it relates to Representative Ilhan Omar, this investigation, Tavis,
actually started under the Biden administration. And I actually wasn't
aware of this until yesterday on CNN when Jake Tapper
had on Ellie Honig, who's our chief legal analyst. And
he was talking about the indictment and the investigation. And look,
I'm not an attorney, so I can only go by
what was said. And he's a pretty well-respected attorney. And
he said, look, these are pretty legitimate charges. And it
started under the Biden administration. And this is a continuation
of that investigation. And so I don't know where this
is ultimately going to end for her. But if what
he said is true, she may be in a little
bit of trouble here as this thing continues.
Speaker 1: So I've got some commentary for you on Joe Biden
in just a second. We'll get back to that. I noticed,
as the audience has, I'm sure, that you mentioned Joe
Biden two or three times now. Some of these investigations
were started in his era, in his DOJ. That is accurate.
So we'll come back to that, put an opinion in it.
Trust me, I got some commentary for Joe Biden in
that regard. But Donald Trump has the agency. to disagree
politically with anybody. We all have that for that matter.
So his policy differences notwithstanding, you do have to acknowledge
that the optics on this smack of racism, this long
and growing list of black women that he continues to target.
And again, this is a 10-year, Ilhan Omar said so
in her statement the other day, that Trump has been
messing with her for 10 years. He won't leave Lisa
Cook alone. I mean, I could run the list if
I had the time. You know this stuff as well
as I do, Sir Michael. Maybe even better because you
cover this stuff every day on CNN. But, again, the
policy differences notwithstanding, what about the optics, that smack of racism?
Speaker 4: He doesn't care about it. I mean, I'm just being
honest here. The president doesn't care about the optics. He
doesn't care about the optics on this particular issue any
more than he cares about the optics on a litany
of other issues. Even if those issues may not be
politically beneficial to him, Even if those issues may even,
I'll just give a real example. Let's take the Hispanic community.
President received 44% of the Latino vote in 2024. I mean,
just a massive undertaking, complete realignment of a real coalition
that Democrats are slowly building and building and building. And
yet he instituted an immigration policy that initially seemed like, okay,
this isn't too bad. And then it went overboard, partially
because of Stephen Miller. Well, a whole lot because of
Stephen Miller. You're arresting people who maybe they've come into
the country legally, but they don't appear to be committing
any heinous crimes. And despite the optics, they didn't pause
and say, wait a minute here. This just doesn't make
any sense. This doesn't look good. We've garnered 44% of
the Latino vote. This is a community that's clearly interested
in some type of a Republican message. We need to
try to cement that. support. We need to change and
alter this immigration. But he didn't do any of that.
He didn't care. And so when I look at this
to answer your question, I just don't think the president
cares about the optics. And I know that sounds terrible,
but I have never seen from this term to the
previous term to even when he was a private citizen
during the Biden year, still actively engaged in politics. I've
never seen any evidence to me that would suggest that
the president is a surgical political actor who's thinking about
the decisions he make and how those decisions may impact
him politically or even how those decisions may appear morally
to the average layperson. He just doesn't care.
Speaker 1: No, I receive that. I receive that. Let me flip this.
So just work with me here for a second. There's
another way to read this, and I may even get
in trouble with some or even frame it this way,
but that's what I do every day, ask questions that
get me in trouble. So I'm used to it. At
35 years now, I'm used to doing that. There's no
way to see this. And here's the frame. Maybe this
can be seen as Donald Trump doing what he always does,
to your point, Sir Michael, not caring about the optics,
but going after his enemies. That's who he is. This
guy is vindictive. He is vengeful. He is evil. He
goes after his enemies. It just so happens that some
of those enemies are powerful black women. Now, there's a
way to celebrate that. Years ago, we wouldn't have had
a black woman AG in New York. We wouldn't have
had a black congresswoman who's Muslim out of Minneapolis. You
wouldn't have had a black woman. She is the first
at the Fed. You take my point. You wouldn't have
had a black female DA in Atlanta named Fannie Willis.
And on and on and on, I could go down
this list. So maybe there's a way to look at this,
which is that Donald Trump is attacking his enemies, and
some of those enemies happen to be powerful black women,
and for us to put race on it is missing
the point. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Talk to me.
Speaker 4: I think it's a fair point. I mean, Trump is
very Machiavellian in a lot of ways. I remember talking
with Dr. West about this a couple weeks ago. And
people always say, well, why do people, his base, continue
to support him? Despite some of these things, it doesn't
even always make a lot of sense. And for them,
they sort of perceive these enemies, right, as sort of
stepping in the way of the progress of the things
that Trump has promised he's going to deliver for them.
And so they permit the president to be very, very
aggressive in who he goes after and how he goes
after them. And black women are, you know, in one
particular case. But you can look at a whole bunch
of other people who are not black. A lot of
white people that he goes– and I'm not trying to
dismiss it. Let me be clear for the audience. I
understand the optics, so I'm not dismissing it. I'm just
making the point that any person that the president perceives
will not buck to his will, who would not permit
him to do the things he would like to do
regardless of what the laws may be in some instances,
regardless of the ethics of certain things. You're going to
get fired. And likely he's going to go after you
if he perceives you as even more serious of a threat.
And you've seen this with Comey. I can go down
the line of all of these people that the president
has had, DOJ, for example, go after. And so I
just think the way I look at it, Tavis, if
Trump views you as not a friend, then you're just
a foe. There's no in-between with him.
Speaker 1: I take that. And for the record, I don't believe
the devil's advocate question that I posed. I don't believe
that frame. That's why I called it a devil's advocate question.
I believe that these attacks on black women are racial,
if not racist. I'll leave that where the good Lord
done flung it, at least for now. Let me go
back to this Joe Biden point that I want to
make that you got me thinking about earlier. And this, again,
won't excite some of my Democratic friends, but it is
what it is. I am waiting for someone to write
the definitive story about the Joe Biden Department of Justice,
not the Donald Trump Department of Justice, but the Joe
Biden Department of Justice. I'm telling you what I know,
not what I heard, not what I read, what I know.
And I'm just waiting for somebody to write the definitive story,
looking back at the Biden Department of Justice and what
they did with regard to African-American elected officials. You heard
Sir Michael Singleton raised the name of Marilyn Mosby, the
former Baltimore State's attorney. The Biden administration, Department of Justice
went after her. And what just happened? The prosecutors, after
one trial that they couldn't win, decided not to pursue
a retrial. And her conviction now has been, as she
put it, rightfully reversed and vacated. Convicted of mortgage fraud.
A jury determined that she'd filed a false application. But
that was it. Felt Appeals Court overturns the conviction. Last year.
And now they won't retry her. And so she gets
to keep the house in Florida, the vacation home. It
was at the center of all of this, but they've
cost her money. They've cost her her reputation. And in
the end, the Department of Justice lost this case. That's
Marilyn Mosby in Baltimore. Fly with me across the country
right quick to L.A. where I sit right now. It
is the Biden Department of Justice that went after one
of the most powerful Democrats in this state, Mark Ridley Thomas.
His case now is still on appeal. But that was
the Biden administration. If I had the time, I don't.
But I got the receipts. I got the data. I
could tell you other black electeds who were targeted in
the Biden era who had their charges in their cases dismissed.
I'm telling you, at some point, somebody is going to
write the definitive story about the Biden Department of Justice
and the black electeds who they targeted during their four-year
reign of terror. these black electives would call it, but
that's the story ain't nobody talking about, sure, Michael.
Speaker 4: No, no one's talking about it at all, and I
must say, and I know one of my Morehouse brothers
who's an attorney has worked on a number of pardons
and commutations for black men, some well-known black men, some
not well-known at all that have received pardons and commutations.
from the Trump administration, in part because of cases that
were brought against them and ultimately convictions, unfortunately, in many
of those instances during the previous administration. So, Travis, this
is the complexity of the Trump administration, right? Because you
started off asking me about the black woman, Lisa Cook,
New York's A.G. Tish James, Ilhan Omar, and there are
many others, as you have mentioned. But then at the
same time, you have an administration... that appears to be
hypersensitive and open to reversing what they will perceive as
a miscarriage of justice, particularly as it relates to black men.
That's an interesting dichotomy, and I don't know how you
parse through that.
Speaker 1: No, let's parse through it when we come forward. I
see where you're going, and I ain't afraid to go
there with you. I will just say this. A broken
clock can be right twice a day. I ain't letting
Donald Trump off the hook, but there are some persons
who he has pardoned that I don't think he made
a mistake about. I think there are others on the
list that he ought to consider part of some of
these black electeds. I don't think he'd be making a
mistake in that regard. I digress on that for now.
But again, it's not just Marilyn Mosby on the East Coast,
Mark Willie Thomas on the West Coast, but Ilhan Omar
in the middle. Again, you heard Sir Michael say this
actually started in the Biden era, started, you know, under Democrats.
And so I'm just saying that we like Joe Biden,
but that Department of Justice was doing some stuff. And
somebody's going to write that article somewhere down the road.
If you're listening and you're a writer and you want
to win a Pulitzer Prize, maybe you should take that up.
I digress for now. You're listening to Tavis Smiley. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know it's not Christmas, but we're getting there, right?
We're in October. We're playing some of the best of
Chuck Berry all day today.
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 1: Glad you asked. Today is the centennial celebration of his
birth 100 years ago today. This great artist. made his
entree into the world, and what a body of work,
what a corpus, what an impact on rock and roll
as we know it. We're going to celebrate Chuck Berry
in our second hour today with Taylor Hackford and Chuck
Berry's cousin, Marvin Berry. It's going to be a great
second hour, but we're playing some of the best of
Chuck Berry all three hours of our show today, and
I happen to like that. I love the backbeat on
that song. Run, Rudolph, run. All right, Chuck Berry. We're
celebrating today his centennial. In this hour, Sir Michael Singleton
is our guest. Always pleased to have him kick us
off in hour one. Mother, back in Indiana, turn your
radio down. I'm about to cuss. Well, I'm not going
to cuss, but I'm going to read a quote. It's
got some cuss words in it. Turn your radio down, Mom.
All right. I thought I'd give my mother a warning
because she don't play that. All right. Sir Michael and
I were just talking about Donald Trump going after all
these black women, Lisa Cook and Ilhan Omar and just...
You know, run the list. Tish James. Let me just
read a quote to you. And I'll tell you, I'm
going to tell you who the quote is from after
I read it. So just listen to this. This is
posted on their social media yesterday, today. Me and Ilhan Omar,
not the best grammar there, but anyway, it's what she wrote.
Me and Ilhan Omar are far apart policy wise. I'm pro-life.
She's pro-abortion. I'm pro-2A. She's pro-gun control. on and on
and on. But can someone tell me how pretending to
get ready to deport Ilhan Omar is going to bring
gas down into $ 2, make health insurance freaking affordable, make
a family's weekly grocery bill make sense, and stop sending
our beloved military off to fight for another effing foreign war?
I'm cleaning that up. She wrote it. Another effing foreign war.
People are sick and tired of the BS. I'm saying BS.
She wrote otherwise. When you dumb MFers, when you dumb
MFers at the White House actually release the Epstein files
and lock up the pedophiles and rapists you all hang
out with, then we will start paying attention. Until then,
and then she puts the middle finger emoji. And that,
ladies and gentlemen, was posted by Marjorie Taylor Greene. So, sure, Michael,
it ain't just us. who is sick of this White
House and all this nonsense, including the raiding of her
home and acting like you're trying to deport Ilhan Omar.
Speaker 4: You know, look, like I said, I don't think the
president particularly cares. And as I stated earlier, even when
things don't make all the most political sense, I mean,
it's just clear that this time around they're just not–
and look, last time, the previous administration was a little different,
and I'm sure people on the opposite side would criticize
many things during that time as well. But I do
think there seems to be less of a discipline in
terms of the president's advisors. I mean, the president, he
listens to the last person in the room. That's just
how he is, good or for bad. And so you really,
really have to have disciplined people around him to say, hey,
if we're going to continue this thing from the previous administration,
let's just continue it quietly. You have an election, I think,
19 days as of today. We need to really be
focused on some of the things that our base needs
to hear from us, because I don't think there are
many persuadables left so that we can get those folks
to turn out. That is just not what you have
this time around, Tavis. And so it's why you're seeing
candidates like Susan Collins and Mike Rogers. These are races
that I'm a part of, that I'm working on with
the NRSC, the National Republican Senatorial Committee, who are sort
of really hyper-focused on their own races. And they're drawing
contrast and divides from themselves. And some of the president's
more recent policy pronouncements that they know are not in
their electoral interest. And you're seeing more of this all
over the country as it pertains to the Senate map
in particular. The House is gone. But I think there's
still a path for us to maintain the majority in
the Senate. And it's because of what you just said.
You're quoting Marjorie Taylor Greene, who obviously had a falling
out with the president, of these are just not the priorities,
not only for the whole country, but even our own basis.
And okay, We get it, but you need to get
back to the things that you promised you would deliver on,
and you're not doing that.
Speaker 1: Nope. To your point, there are Republicans like Rogers in
Michigan and Collins in Maine and others who are sort
of running away from the president. You know, thank you,
but no thank you. Don't come campaign for me. I
got this. I got this in my state. So we're
seeing a lot of that. I appreciate Mr. Michael, of course,
being honest and earnest about that, as he always is.
Let me circle back to the point he was making
a moment ago, starting to make about black men. And
here's how I heard that comment. We have these conversations
all the time about the black men who support Donald Trump.
Many of us have been sickened by that. Every time
he runs, he gets more black male votes. We talk
about that all the time. That's a well-worn story. What
we're not talking about are the black men who Donald
Trump has tended to pardon. And we were making the
point earlier, at least I was making the point, that
somebody needs to do a definitive drill down. on the
Biden years and what his Department of Justice did to
go after black electeds from Marilyn Mosby in Baltimore to
Mark Woody Thomas here on the West Coast and in between.
I could give you the names of others who, again,
have their charges dismissed, just like they have now finally
dismissed this case against Marilyn Mosby and the House. Her
vacation home in Florida that was at the epicenter of
all of this, she still gets to keep. So that's just,
I mean, you're talking about just wasted years of your
life and your reputation dragged through the mud. In the end,
you end up winning the case. She ain't the only one.
We'll see how it works out for Mark.
Speaker 4: She lost her career, by the way.
Speaker 1: That's my point. She lost her career, but she didn't
lose the case and she didn't lose the house that
they were trying to go after. So it's just a
waste of time by the Department of Justice in the
Biden era. And again, she ain't the only example. This
audience knows I have had it with Merrick Garland. I mean,
I'm no fan of Merrick Garland for a number of reasons,
not the least of which is because he was an
institutionalist as a G. He dragged his feet on going
after Donald Trump. It took Benny Thompson to get that
committee together. to push a report out that made Merrick
Garland finally moved. And by the time he started moving,
the clock was running out. And hence Donald Trump is
your president for a second term. Don't get me started
talking about Merrick Garland, but I want to give you
some space. So let me just tee this up. When
we come forward, I'll shut up and let sure Michael talk.
But I heard you teeing up again, a conversation about,
you know, the black men who Donald Trump has leaned in,
in a variety of instances to actually pardon, which is
a different conversation than the black men, who supported Donald
Trump that, again, make many of us sick to our stomachs.
I'll leave it there for now. Let your Michael frame
it as he will when we come forward on Tavis Smiley.
We'll close this conversation in 10 or so minutes talking
about Donald Trump's decision to not live stream the execution
of the Fort Hood killer, Mr. Hassan. We'll do that
before I let your Michael Sennington go at the top
of the hour. But for now, let me stand down.
Go and work your frame, brother. I tried to tee
it up for you. It's all yours.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Tabitha, I think it's interesting. We started off talking
about the black woman, and obviously I'm acutely aware of
the optics of it. When Marilyn Mosley was charged from
the previous administration, I was very outspoken about it. I
knew her years ago. A good friend of mine worked
for her in her former position. She actually was a presbytery.
When Trump got elected, I publicly called for the administration
to dismiss the charges because I thought it was just absurd. Again,
the same thing with Tish James. I also think the
actions she took against the president were just way out
of bounds in my personal opinion. Nevertheless, I said, look,
I just think this is a waste of time. I
don't understand the strategy behind this. There's no benefit at all.
And to me, I'm always thinking that every step needs
to yield something in politics. And if it isn't, then
more than likely it's a distraction and probably going to
be a net negative in the long run. And that
has indeed, unfortunately, been the case in the past two
years of this time of the president's administration. It's been
tenuous at best. A lot of mistakes, errors have been
self-inflicted that were necessary, in my opinion. That said, you
look at some of the patterns and connotations, particularly with
black men, some celebrities that have garnered attention Something happens, obviously.
Speaker 1: I haven't heard any attention at all. Hold on one second.
Let me get Miles to fix this right quick. It
happens sometimes in live radio when it gets good. You
ask an interesting question like, what about these black men
who Trump has pardoned, not just those who vote for him?
We've had the black male vote for Trump conversation a
bunch of times. It is the other conversation that I
want to have right now since he teed it up.
about the black men, some of them well-known, some not
so well-known. But Donald Trump has used his pardon pen
more than any president, frankly, in history. And the truth
is that some of the ink from that pen has
been used to pardon African-American males. I think Sir Michael
is back to finish making his point. Sir Michael, go.
Speaker 4: Okay, so I was just simply saying that it is
an interesting dichotomy between As I just think about this
in real time, Tavis, the conversation we've had about black women,
and of course that's something that's concerned me, and obviously
from my position of influence, it's something that I've discussed
internally with people, and I have attempted to tell people
why and how this could become problematic politically, but also
just the optics of how it looks. Some folks have
been open-minded to some of my pleas. as it relates
to many of the black women we've talked about. And
some of us said, well, we don't really see it
that way. And that's a part of the process, right?
But at a minimum, when one is in a position
of influence, you try to utilize that influence for some good,
even when it's for people who you may be ideologically
opposed to. Again, I'm sensitive to the optics at the
end of the day. I may have a black mother,
I have a black wife, I have a black daughter, right?
So I can't help but be sensitive to those things.
That said, though, With the black men, it's just interesting
to me that Trump seems to be hypersensitive, as I
was saying, and very open-minded under the right circumstances, Tavis,
to pardoning or commuting the sentences of black men. Now,
we often hear about those that are celebrities or have
had nationally known cases, but there are a slew of them, Tavis,
that most people have never heard of before. sometimes regular people,
and he's pardoned them. And again, I know this because
one of my close friends is an attorney who's worked
on a number of these cases. And so that to
me is a bit conflicting, I guess, right? Because you
have the black women issue, but then you have the
openness to pardoning a lot of black men known and unknown.
And I don't know how the average black person wrestles
with that.
Speaker 1: No, it is a dilemma. It's a dichotomy to be sure.
And I'm glad you raised it because, again, it's not
one of those things that we actually talk about, but
it comes up in the context of this conversation because
we were just talking, in case you tuned in late,
about the Biden administration, the Department of Justice. And I
repeat for the third and final time, somebody down the
road is going to write a definitive article, a story,
an expose, a profile of the Department of Justice during
the Biden era and all the black electees who they
went after in that four-year period. I digress on that
for now. When we come forward in our remaining moments
with Sir Michael Singleton, we'll talk about the news of
this hour that Donald Trump has decided not to, not
to live stream, which I think is the right decision,
not to live stream the execution of the Fort Hood killer, Mr. Hassan,
Major Malik Hassan. We'll talk about that when we come
forward on Tap the Smile. We are used to Sir
Michael Singleton at this point, Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump
playing good cop, bad cop, but Hegseth jumps out. as
Secretary of the Department of Defense, Department of War, as
they call it, which is appropriate given the way they behave, saying, heck, heck, say,
we're going to execute this guy live on television, live on,
we're going to live stream it. Vice President J.D. Vance
comes out and says, if they do, I ain't watching it.
Donald Trump says, no, Pete, I'm going to make the
ultimate decision about whether we do this or not. And
now he said today that he is not going to
show the execution of Hassan, of Nadal Malik Hassan. They're
not going to show this live. which I think is
the right decision. Some ideas are bad ideas when you
think about it, but what's your read of all this
in two minutes?
Speaker 4: It's a terrible idea. It's a barbaric idea. I mean, look,
we're an egalitarian society. Now, I'm assuming your audience is
very familiar with what that gentleman did, and he certainly
should be executed. but that shouldn't be televised, man. We're
not a third-world country, Tavis. This isn't 2,000 years ago
Roman Empire where we enjoy watching people get slaughtered and
eaten by wild animals. I mean, it was insane to
me and nonsensical when I first saw this story break
on CNN. And I remember texting a friend of mine
at the White House, and I said, you've got to
tell me no way in hell you guys are going
to approve this. And so I'm glad that the president
came out and said, absolutely not. Not and not only
for the reasons I just gave to just imagine, Tavis,
when you start to publicize stuff like that, what it
does to the conscious conscience and the psyche of the country.
I mean, there's just no way we should ever permit,
no matter how heinous one's crimes may have been, this
type of public execution. I just think it's unbecoming of
who we are as Americans.
Speaker 1: No question about it. But again, this ain't the first
or I suspect the last time that Hexeth just pops off.
and says something. And again, I don't know sometimes who
the good cop is, who the bad cop is, but
he and.
Speaker 4: Well, I suspect Democrats are going to try to impeach him,
by the way, Tavis. I suspect he'll probably be one
of the first on the list once they have oversight.
And if that occurs, I got to tell you, the
president will probably just let him go. I mean, he's
become a real thorn, I believe, uh, and the president's side. And,
and granted, he's not one to typically want to let
people go, but I think under the right political circumstances,
he would ultimately let him go.
Speaker 1: So, so you do not see Donald Trump coming to
excess defense.
Speaker 4: No, I think once Democrats win the house, there's a
significant amount of oversight and it becomes politically embarrassing. I
think the president will ultimately let him go. I really
do believe that. Well, he's done it before. I don't
see why except would be any different.
Speaker 1: No, well, you're right. He, he, uh, He stands by
his people until he doesn't. And when he doesn't, he
just misses you forthwith.
Speaker 4: Remember Kimberly Guilfoyle? I think she dated my son a
couple years ago, but I don't really know who she is.
Speaker 1: Or Pam Bondi. Or we could run the list, right?
There's a lot of them. But I digress for now. Always, again,
grateful for the time that Sir Michael Singleton gives us
at UCM on CNN all the time, so often on
Abby Phillips' show. sometimes sitting next to our friend and brother,
Cornel West. He's also the co-founder of WE, the Free
TV Streaming Network. Schmackle, thanks for your insights and your
rest of your day, sir.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Tavis. Thanks for having me and thanks for
asking me challenging questions and even holding me accountable when
you disagree. That's important.
Speaker 1: You are the best, man. Thank you for coming on
and holding me accountable. I believe that at our best,
we're challenging folks to reexamine their assumptions, expand the inventory
of ideas, and sometimes that even means me. More of
Tavis Schmackle when we come forward.