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Stop the visa hop: inside Labor’s migration crackdown

Nothing makes Labor politicians sweat like an immigration controversy – and now the federal government has come up with a crackdown to bring migration numbers down in the attempt to appease the right, while trying not to alienate the left. Will it work? And what problem are we trying to solve, anyway?

Read more about this story at theaustralian.com.au and see the video by subscribing to our YouTube channel.

Revealed: Labor to target students, visitor visas in migration crackdown

Commentary by Geoff Chambers: Can Labor pull off its ‘tough on immigration’ act?

This episode of The Front is presented by Claire Harvey, produced by Kristen Amiet and edited by Joshua Burton. Our team includes Lia Tsamoglou, Tiffany Dimmack, and Jasper Leak, who also composed our music. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker 1: From The Australian, here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: flash flooding disaster in Nepal and Tibet. Nothing makes Labor

Speaker 1: politicians sweat like an immigration controversy. And now the federal

Speaker 1: government has come up with a crackdown to bring migration

Speaker 1: numbers down in the attempt to appease the right while

Speaker 1: trying not to alienate the left.

Speaker 2: Will it work?

Speaker 1: And what problem are we trying to solve anyway? That's

Speaker 1: today's story. Geoff Chambers is the Australian's political editor and

Speaker 1: he's been writing about a concept that I hadn't heard

Speaker 1: of before. Geoff, what is visa hopping?

Speaker 2: Well, visa hopping is a very common trend.

Speaker 3: That over the last two decades, we've seen a bit

Speaker 3: of a cottage industry emerge amongst migration agents and such.

Speaker 3: And the advice that is given is that if you're

Speaker 3: here on a temporary visa, or if you're here as

Speaker 3: an international student, there are avenues and pathways to remain

Speaker 3: in the country and quite often remain in Australia indefinitely.

Speaker 3: And what they do is basically hop from one type

Speaker 3: of visa to another. And we've seen this a lot

Speaker 3: in the international education, higher education, VET, English language sectors,

Speaker 3: where you're going to see a person that's arrived here

Speaker 3: from abroad do one course, and then they're going to

Speaker 3: move to another course and seek a different visa. And

Speaker 3: this is a big issue because They're doing this here

Speaker 3: in Australia onshore. Quite often under these student visas, you

Speaker 3: can bring family members out here. So they're looking to

Speaker 3: have a longer life and a longer time in Australia.

Speaker 3: But when we've currently got about 700,000 international students in

Speaker 3: the country, that becomes a bit of an issue. And

Speaker 3: few countries, Western countries, actually allow this onshore application. So

Speaker 3: I think it would make a difference if you can say, okay, look,

Speaker 3: We're very open to you making that application, but you

Speaker 3: do have to go home and you do have to

Speaker 3: make that new pitch as to why you want to

Speaker 3: continue your various courses here in Australia.

Speaker 1: This is part of a crackdown, a looming crackdown that

Speaker 1: you've revealed that the Labor government is now working up

Speaker 1: and it's all about getting net overseas migration down. Labor

Speaker 1: has been trying to get the net overseas migration down

Speaker 1: for quite a while now and.

Speaker 2: It's really struggling.

Speaker 3: Why?

Speaker 1: Is visa hopping the reason?

Speaker 3: I think the reason is to get the NOM down

Speaker 3: requires some pretty extreme and drastic decisions.

Speaker 2: One is in the enforcement.

Speaker 3: So if you do have illegal overstays, you're going to

Speaker 3: have to make that call that they're going to have

Speaker 3: to go to a detention centre and then they're going

Speaker 3: to have to get deported. And that is something that

Speaker 3: has happened under Labor, but the argument is they haven't

Speaker 3: gone as hard as they possibly could. I like to

Speaker 3: go back after the 2022 election when Claire O'Neill is

Speaker 3: the then Home Affairs Minister tasked Martin Parkinson, former PMC

Speaker 3: and Treasury Secretary, to do Labor's big migration review. And

Speaker 3: the purpose of that really was to say, oh, the

Speaker 3: coalition over a decade did such a bad job.

Speaker 2: Here are all the problems.

Speaker 3: So what Martin Parkinson did was he actually, in fact,

Speaker 3: identified what needs to be done. And Labor, for the

Speaker 3: last three and a half years almost now, haven't really

Speaker 3: followed through. So they're now in the process of trying

Speaker 3: to do that because they understand that. that the optics

Speaker 3: for a Labor government in particular to look like they're

Speaker 3: not on top of immigration and on top of borders,

Speaker 3: this is becoming problematic as we see the rise of

Speaker 3: One Nation and both the Labor Party and Anthony Albanese's

Speaker 3: personal standings go down post-Bondi terrorist attack. And as everyone's

Speaker 3: sort of doing it tough in this cost of living environment.

Speaker 1: It's a really interesting philosophical one for Labor, isn't it?

Speaker 1: The big argument for many years in Australia has been

Speaker 1: that higher levels of migration improve our Labor productivity. We

Speaker 1: bring in the kind of skilled workers who have the

Speaker 1: initiative to get themselves here in the first place. They

Speaker 1: contribute to Australia. They make this country better. And especially now,

Speaker 1: our fertility rate is.

Speaker 2: Low and falling.

Speaker 1: We're not replacing ourselves in the numbers that we need

Speaker 1: to sustain our economy into the future. you could take

Speaker 1: a pretty cynical view and say Labor still holds that view,

Speaker 1: but is prepared to sacrifice it because they're worried about

Speaker 1: One Nation. Is it as simple as that right now,

Speaker 1: or is there a bigger shift going on within Labor?

Speaker 3: The economic impacts of substantially lowering the net overseas migration figure,

Speaker 3: which some people argue is not the figure that should

Speaker 3: actually be looked at because the NOM looks at everything

Speaker 3: that's coming in and out of the country, any visitors,

Speaker 3: any Australians that are coming in and out. So It's

Speaker 3: actually quite hard to get that number down significantly. You'd

Speaker 3: have to do some pretty drastic things to get to

Speaker 3: that point. I think that Anthony Albanese has intervened. He

Speaker 3: clearly was concerned about what happened to Keir Starmer over

Speaker 3: in the UK, who, you know, obviously has been replaced.

Speaker 1: So Keir Starmer's small boats record is officially worse than

Speaker 1: any of his predecessors as Prime Minister.

Speaker 3: And Anthony Albanese and Tony Burke have now changed their

Speaker 3: views on things like Operation Sovereign Borders, boat turnbacks, the

Speaker 3: use of Nauru. All of these are important, but there

Speaker 3: is a bigger issue at play, and that is the

Speaker 3: impacts of this huge post-pandemic record migration levels on things

Speaker 3: like community infrastructure and transport and jobs and all the

Speaker 3: rest of it. So they've got that on one side,

Speaker 3: and then they've got the economic ramifications on the other side.

Speaker 3: And if you're Jim Chalmers, You're already delivering deficits. You're

Speaker 3: already swimming in a sea of debt. He can't really

Speaker 3: do with some significant cut to migration. And as you say,

Speaker 3: around population, the birth rate is down. So we are

Speaker 3: very heavily reliant on those immigration flows to have the

Speaker 3: people to do cleaning jobs, cooking jobs, all those types

Speaker 3: of those jobs that potentially Australians don't want to do.

Speaker 2: So you've got these two things at force.

Speaker 3: And then you've got a Labor Party who obviously, 2007

Speaker 3: to 2013, under Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, lost control

Speaker 3: of the borders. And Anthony Albanese and a bunch of people,

Speaker 3: including Tony Burke and Chris Bowen, who were immigration ministers

Speaker 3: during those governments, they know full well what the fallout

Speaker 3: is if you can't get that narrative right.

Speaker 2: We are seeing too many drownings. We are seeing too

Speaker 2: many sinkings, too many innocent people being lost at sea.

Speaker 3: The alternative script, which probably prompted a postponing of Tony

Speaker 3: Burke's announcement of the so-called immigration crackdown, are those people

Speaker 3: that are worried about their left base, are worried about

Speaker 3: people who think that Labor are being mean and being

Speaker 3: like Donald Trump and going too hard or following one

Speaker 3: nation and the coalition down a rabbit hole. So you've

Speaker 3: got those competing pressures at play. But at the very least,

Speaker 3: while Labor might optically want some people to think that

Speaker 3: this is going to be a really forceful crackdown around

Speaker 3: visas and immigration, it might be more of a feather

Speaker 3: duster than a big stick. I think Anthony Albanese has said, look, yeah,

Speaker 3: this is a guy that did pretty well amongst diaspora

Speaker 3: communities in the last two elections. he's saying now, look,

Speaker 3: let's just hit our targets. I think we've got to

Speaker 3: at least hit our targets, but we don't have to

Speaker 3: go substantial. We don't have to follow the other guys

Speaker 3: and go substantially lower, but we do have to hit

Speaker 3: our targets, guys.

Speaker 1: That would bring the norm to 220 odd thousand people

Speaker 1: a year. The coalition is saying it should be more

Speaker 1: like 180,000, but One Nation got itself tangled up. Pauline

Speaker 1: Hanson says it should be 130, but then other members

Speaker 1: of One Nation pointed out quite rightly, I think, that

Speaker 1: if you include the people who we need to work

Speaker 1: in our aged care homes, as you said, Jeff, to

Speaker 1: clean our offices, to pick the fruit that Australians apparently

Speaker 1: don't want to pick, it would be much higher than that.

Speaker 1: It would be more like 180,000 people. That's the alternative

Speaker 1: for Labor, isn't it? It's just holding the line and

Speaker 1: hoping that that becomes obvious to Australians. Most Australians have

Speaker 1: never even heard of the norm, though. Pauline Hanson will

Speaker 1: keep saying migration is too high and that's why you

Speaker 1: can't get a house.

Speaker 4: Why are you using mass migration to paper over your

Speaker 4: abysmal economic management, disregarding the call from millions of Australians

Speaker 4: to stop it due to their standard of living being destroyed?

Speaker 1: So if Labor doesn't actually bring the number down any

Speaker 1: further than its current target, how does it answer that criticism?

Speaker 2: Well, they're the incumbents, aren't they?

Speaker 3: So they're two terms in and they're going to be

Speaker 3: gunning for a third election either late next year or

Speaker 3: in 2028. And it very much squarely lays on them

Speaker 3: in terms of how they manage the immigration system. And

Speaker 3: I think for both Labor and the coalition when they

Speaker 3: were in power, this discussion about what skills do we

Speaker 3: need in this country?

Speaker 2: What are the skills priorities? Who are the type of

Speaker 2: people that we need here? I don't think the work's

Speaker 2: ever been done properly.

Speaker 3: And both my parties are promising that they will try

Speaker 3: and get that right. It is really complex to get

Speaker 3: that right because the needs change year to year. Depends

Speaker 3: on what region of Australia. It depends on the appetite

Speaker 3: of who we're trying to attract. Are we trying to

Speaker 3: attract high-level tech type of people, which I think we

Speaker 3: probably should. And I think there'll probably be some exceptions

Speaker 3: and carve-outs for postgraduate research and trying to attract the

Speaker 3: best and the brightest. But it's that sort of underlay

Speaker 3: under the economy, sort of, you know, the care economies,

Speaker 3: you know, as Australia gets older and as those workforces

Speaker 3: get bigger, where are we going to get those people from?

Speaker 1: It's a tool of our soft diplomacy too, isn't it,

Speaker 1: in the Pacific? The Palms Labor Scheme that brings Pacific

Speaker 1: Island workers here to do things like pick fruit, seasonal work.

Speaker 1: I mean, that is Australia's kind of signature policy in

Speaker 1: the region to say, we care about you, we're going

Speaker 1: to help you bring money home to your own economies.

Speaker 3: Oh, it's been such a success and it's bipartisan support.

Speaker 3: And even One Nation people who are familiar with the

Speaker 3: regions and who talk to the farmers are understand that

Speaker 3: it's crucial and really important. And we've seen stories recently

Speaker 3: about the long-term trajectory of Australia's agricultural production and output.

Speaker 3: And it's quite frightening to see where that might go

Speaker 3: if we don't get that mix right. It's really fascinating,

Speaker 3: the politics in this, because I think One Nation, the

Speaker 3: Coalition and Labor ultimately have to explain what the impacts

Speaker 3: will be from their various targets. But I certainly think

Speaker 3: it's easier for One Nation and Pauline Hanson to basically,

Speaker 3: you know, she can move positions, it seems, and at

Speaker 3: this point in the cycle, get away with it.

Speaker 4: Your skilled list includes occupations such as dog handler, hairdresser, gardener,

Speaker 4: golfer and migration agent. Minister, why is your government flooding

Speaker 4: Australia with 80% of unskilled migration?

Speaker 1: Coming up, is lowering migration just a band-aid for our

Speaker 1: homegrown housing crisis? Geoff, Pauline Hanson's big rallying cry is

Speaker 1: that immigration is causing the housing crisis. The counterpoint to

Speaker 1: that is housing is bound up in red tape, lack

Speaker 1: of supply and other factors. Labor would say it's working

Speaker 1: on that with the big budget reforms that have been

Speaker 1: very controversial. What do you think? Is immigration becoming the

Speaker 1: scapegoat for the housing situation when it's not really to blame?

Speaker 2: I think it has become that, absolutely.

Speaker 3: And ironically, it was the coalition and Peter Dutton that

Speaker 3: put this, and probably before him, even under the Morrison government,

Speaker 3: that made that tie, that link between migration and housing.

Speaker 2: And it's actually, it's slipped up the coalition. Labor struggles because.

Speaker 3: They've made these huge promises on targets for housing supply

Speaker 3: and cutting red tape and all.

Speaker 2: The rest of it.

Speaker 3: And it doesn't seem to be anywhere near the trajectory

Speaker 3: that they require. So they naturally will come under pressure.

Speaker 3: And if people can't buy a house or if there's

Speaker 3: issues in the housing market, they're going to look for

Speaker 3: something to blame. And you do have Pauline Hanson then

Speaker 3: saying people can't get housing because immigration is out of control.

Speaker 3: And I think the out of control narrative, whether it's

Speaker 3: the public service is out of control, they're hiring too much.

Speaker 2: Spending's out of control.

Speaker 3: I think it's a fairly common theme where if people

Speaker 3: are struggling in a cost of living crisis, in a

Speaker 3: housing crisis, and they don't know who to blame and

Speaker 3: they're going to get told it's the government's fault, it's

Speaker 3: the major party's fault because they've let you down. I

Speaker 3: think that is why One Nation is gaining so much traction.

Speaker 1: Geoff Chambers is The Australian's political editor. You can check

Speaker 1: out his work anytime at theaustralian.com.au.

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