Mansfield Park Volume 2 Chapters 5-6

Surprise, bitch, bet you thought you'd seen the last of Henry Crawford. Fanny goes to dinner at the parsonage, it's revealed that Edmund will be taking his living sooner than Mary thought, and Henry decides he's going to woo Fanny. Plus, the return of William Price!

Topics discussed include Fanny's place in the parsonage, how many cats Fanny will have in her Brooklyn apartment, whether Henry is a dog person, and the danger of horseback riding vs. being in the navy.

Patron Study Questions this week come from Avi, Ghenet, Linnea, Angelika

Topics discussed include Fanny's new position at Mansfield, Mary and Maria's situations, Mary's culpability in Henry's plan, whether Henry has met people like the Prices before, Henry's jealousy, and sibling pairs.

Becca's Study Questions: Topics discussed include Henry's POV and Henry's sincerity.

Funniest Quote: "No, I will not do her any harm, dear little soul! I only want her to look kindly on me, to give me smiles as well as blushes, to keep a chair for me by herself wherever we are, and be all animation when I take it and talk to her; to think as I think, be interested in all my possessions and pleasures, try to keep me longer at Mansfield, and feel when I go away that she shall be never happy again. I want nothing more.”

Questions moving forward: How long is William staying? Will Henry and Fanny fall in love? Will William and Mary fall in love?

Who wins the chapters? William!

Glossary of Terms and Phrases:

menu plaisirs: minor pleasures

Glossary of People, Places, and Things: Oh, Mary!, How To Lose A Guy In Ten Days, 27 Dresses

Next Episode: Mansfield Park Volume II Chapters 7-8

Our show art was created by Torrence Browne, and our audio is produced by Graham Cook. For bios and transcripts, check out our website at podandprejudice.com. Pod and Prejudice is transcribed by speechdocs.com. To support the show, check out our Patreon! Check out our merch at https://podandprejudice.dashery.com.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everyone, before we begin today, we'd like to thank our newest patron, Mr. White.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the team.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now, enjoy this week's episode, covering volume two, chapters five and six of Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_02]: Listeners, we're recording this in the middle of the great bomb cyclone of 2026.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a bomb cyclone?

[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, Melis said it was, but I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is like the most loving way possible about your partner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Melis, someone I would trust with meteorology.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're right about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: She checks the weather every five seconds.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not surprised.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like if I had three different people tell me something about how the weather was, I would trust emails word over the other two people's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you on behalf of her.

[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, so there is someone snow blowing outside and I wanna give that caveat, but also I'm sure Graham will make it sound great.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in case you can hear a low rumbling,

[SPEAKER_00]: it is also the case that we're recording remote and I have found that apparently my headphones in my apartment are noisy which is a crazy thing but if you guys hear Clayty Black on my end apologies, we're all just coping

[SPEAKER_00]: This is Becca, this is Molly.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are here to talk about Jane Austen.

[SPEAKER_02]: We are here specifically to talk about Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, if you're new here, I Becca have read many Jane Austen novels through my lifetime.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Molly, I'm reading all of her works for the first time through this podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear Molly read through Pride and Prejudice since in sensibility, Emma, or persuasion for the first time, you can listen to seasons one, two, three, and four of this podcast respectively.

[SPEAKER_02]: Today, no, today we are talking about Mansfield Park volume the second chapters 5 and 6 or if your book is not broken up into volumes chapters 23 and 24.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's back.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is risen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we're really, as you can see, this is a signal that we're entering a new phase of this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's volume the second.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's part two.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the sequel.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a sequel, but it's this midfield park two bandsfield two park.

[SPEAKER_01]: Henry's return, return of Henry Crawford, return of the flirt, the horrible flirt.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, I get it now, which part the appeal of

[SPEAKER_00]: both.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is so much to unpack with Henry Crawford here and how Austin structures the beginning of these chapters at first is the end of these chapters and what we're like leaning into in the next sort of era of this story.

[SPEAKER_00]: but before we get there, let's just recap where we were.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has left Mansfield Park that was like having a fun time being a theater kid except Fanny, Mary Crawford, and Edmund.

[SPEAKER_00]: The girls are off with Mr. Rushworth in Brighton.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm their joint honeymoon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tom is flitting about London doing whatever Tom does.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't even know if it's London.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's out.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's partying.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to do more theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Gates is gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: RIP King of the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And instead what we have is Mary Crawford and Fannie hanging out a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: and people taking more of an interest in Fanny Boatman's field park and at the parish nearby.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny is invited to dinner with Edmund at the parish house with Miss Crawford and her sister and brother-in-law.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So let's get into these chapters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So where we are now, lady Bertram is flumixed as to why Mrs. Grant would ask Fanny to dinner.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, this isn't saying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fanny doesn't want to go to dinner.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you Fanny?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Edmund is like, if you say it like that, of course she's going to say she doesn't want to go to dinner.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he says besides, Sir Thomas is going to be here all evening.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we ask him what he thinks?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Lady Bertram is like, yeah, good idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's ask whether I can do without Fanny.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, no, that's not what I meant.

[SPEAKER_02]: I meant ask him whether he thinks that she should go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if that's a proper thing to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he's going to say yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she thinks that he's going to be surprised the Fanny was invited at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: When he comes in, Fanny is embarrassed, so she goes away.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Sir Thomas is actually confused just about the problem is, and Lady Bertram is like, well, obviously Mrs. Grant never used to invite Fanny over, and Edmund's like, okay, but isn't it natural that Mrs. Grant would want to secure such an agreeable visitor for her sister?

[SPEAKER_02]: and so her Thomas is like, yeah, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even if Ms. Crawford wasn't there, it would also make sense for Mrs. Grant to invite my niece and your niece to dinner at her house.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's like a compliment.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be as unplugged as Lady Virtua, but from the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Sir Thomas is surprised that this is the first time that it's happened, actually that she's been invited, and Lady Virtua is like, how will I do without her?

[SPEAKER_02]: She always makes me tea when my sister's not here, and he's like, okay, well, we can invite your sister over then.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, I know how to make tea, and I'll be here, so they decide she can go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Edmund goes to tell her that she can come and she goes oh I am so glad and then she turns around and immediately starts panicking because she realizes that she's going to be hanging out with him and married together all day.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is so relatable when you secure a really clutch invite but you don't actually want to go to the event.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh my god, thank you so much for inviting me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, also like notice she is not fighting for this, it's like Edmund fighting for this and then Sir Tom is fighting for this, but she's like, oh

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she actually, her first reaction was to say, no, once again, we don't really care what Penny thinks or wants to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but luckily for Mary Crawford, the grants and for Vanie, like she can make the most of it because she doesn't get to go anywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is her first time aside from like when they went to Southern dining out.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she is a little excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next day, Mrs. Norris arrives to take Fanny's place and she's awful, telling Fanny how obliged she must be to Mrs. Grant for inviting her, how much she does not deserve having been invited and how there was no reason for her to be invited, how it will never happen again.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a compliment to Fanny at all but rather to the family and also if Julia had been their Fanny would never have been invited.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just just a real all-time for Mrs. Norris who has been kind of silent in the last few chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've been getting commentary if people are like, you guys, like, I feel like you might not hate Mrs. Norris and it's like, no, we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We really do.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is one of the most.

[SPEAKER_00]: spiteful characters that Jane Austen wrote, but the thing about Norris is that her spites interesting to me and it's also kind of funny because it's so rude, it's so mean, it's so abusive that it's like a caricature almost of a person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's like hard to take her 100% seriously.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it let's take her seriously just for a second here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah,

[SPEAKER_02]: Why is she doing this?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, she loves to put Fannie in her place.

[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't like to see Fannie getting recognition because if Fannie gets recognition and kind of raises her status in this microcosm of a community, then that makes Mrs. Nora less high up.

[SPEAKER_00]: It bottoms her a little bit more on

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and she's already trying to insert herself as like the lady of the house.

[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't like to see Fanny insert herself as one of the sisters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Fanny operates to make Mrs. Norris more valid in this house, because she's not as low as Fanny, which allows her to group herself with Sir Thomas and his children, but if Fanny gets grouped up there, then Mrs. Norris can't feel superior to anybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about it last time that without Mariah and Julia there, this North is actually somewhat cracked on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny is important to the household and the society around them does grow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we see that in many different areas, which we will get to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fanny after receiving all of this from Mrs. Norris says that she like she doesn't really have anything to say so she just says yeah i'm getting all of my evening work done so that i won't be missed and Mrs. Norris is like oh don't be silly we don't need you here yeah yeah the specific she's like don't worry i've got it all done for lady Bertram and she's like how do you think that you're of any used to lady Bertram when i am here right

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, the whole thing that they literally her whole life every time she wants to go and do anything, they're like, how will lady bedroom do without you?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then the minute she acknowledges that she might, you've helped lady bedroom, they're like, oh, you silly girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: She then goes to on to tell her that

[SPEAKER_02]: five is an awkward number for dinner and Mr. Grant had brought this giant table with him and how weird it's going to be with five of them around it first of all and second of all how dare he bring in a large table into that small house.

[SPEAKER_02]: How disgusting is it when people try to act more important than they are by having a large table.

[SPEAKER_02]: We love a self-aware queen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: See for me, I was hearing this and I was hearing her telling Fanny not to think of herself as, you know, more important than she is, but also I didn't clock that this is also Mrs. Norris.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's literally how she lives her life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's so funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: She tells her that she should not put herself forward or give any opinions as if she were one of her cousins, like remember your place, little girl, always remember your place and your gratitude.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you must be so grateful for your invitation, so grateful for this invitation you do not deserve.

[SPEAKER_02]: She tells her not to take Miss Crawford's place,

[SPEAKER_02]: in that room like is Fanny more important than Miss Crawford because she's coming from the main house.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that probably, so I think like Julia and Mariah are more important than Miss Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she's basically saying like even though your your cousins would be taking the precedents in this situation, you don't take precedents in this situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Miss Mariah, I think that's what she's saying.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then she, she tops it all off with and don't expect a carriage to be sent for you if it rains.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'll figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Round for a lie, care.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's made all the better when Sir Thomas immediately pops in and says, if any what time do you want the carriage to pick you up?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Mrs. Norris was like, no, no, no, Fanny can walk.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you want my niece to walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is important.

[SPEAKER_00]: My niece.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is important because he has never given a shit about Fanny before his daughters are gone now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly it's you want my niece to walk to her engagement where people are complimenting my niece by inviting her for dinner.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's great for Fanny.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's finally feeling considered.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she deserves that, but it's also phenomenal in this moment to just have Sir Thomas come in and take a giant shit on Mrs. Norris.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's incredible.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that he just goes, my niece walk in this weather and then just turns to Fanny and goes, how about 20 after four?

[SPEAKER_00]: and she's like yeah that'll be great and he's like awesome and then he leaves and she's like well like yes he has to order it because Edmund's going yeah yeah it's incredible it's such a funny moment I love it but Fanny also knows that it's for her and not for Edmund.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in her heart, which is interesting for her, also I feel like to know that because she is not used to having any affection from him.

[SPEAKER_02]: So why now is she choosing to believe that it is for her and not for Edmund?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the manner in which Sir Thomas went about offering it to her and his insistence.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess if it was for Edmund, he would just send it and have Edmund pick her up.

[SPEAKER_00]: He would have asked Edmund what time it should be ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when Norris said Fanny could walk, it wasn't no Edmund's going.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's you want my niece to walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we are continuing to see the shift in Sir Thomas's perception of Fanny,

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, get to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a bit of breadcrumming here happening for Fanny.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because this isn't that awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't that novel.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's her relative.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she's been treated like fucking Cinderella.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her whole life at Mansfield Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly she's being treated like a member of the household.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is hitting her in a very specific way.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes her cry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, anyway, so Fanny gets downstairs and is ready for the carriage early and Edmund is on time and so they leave Very punctually, which makes their Thomas feel pleased

[SPEAKER_02]: On the way over, Edmund tells Fannie that she looks nice and he asks about her dress and she says, Oh, it's just the one my uncle got me firm or I is wedding, I hope it's not too fancy and he likes it and he says, Oh, it's just like one that Mary Crawford has.

[SPEAKER_00]: Becca's face you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just can't with Edmund like first of all he's like Brotherly affection talking about how well you fill out your dress, but you know what who else looks hot in a dress The object of all of my lust Yeah, damn Fanny

[SPEAKER_02]: It is tough.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's tough.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they were just best friends, and it was like I'm picturing like a modern day adaptation where they're just best friends, I could this would be a really dick move and everything that he does would be a really dick move and everything he does is a really dick move.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, also we have to give it to him that there are cousins and they have been raised as siblings.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's not necessarily any reason for him to think that she's in love with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that like I go back and forth on this every day.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I have no longer pro Edmund, but I've moved on from hating him so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Especially because I now have, I now have new ideas about what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.

[UNKNOWN]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just prediction.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so, so what's about to happen?

[SPEAKER_02]: So they pull up to the personage and Edmund sees another carriage.

[SPEAKER_00]: And who's carriage is it?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Henry Crawford's carriage.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Henry Crawford's Baruch in particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: There won't be just five at the table after all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: There will be a sixth member of the party.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he will be a naughty, naughty boy.

[SPEAKER_02]: He will be a naughty, naughty boy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Edmund is delighted and reader, I am delighted as well, not because I love Henry Crawford, but because this is where things get spicy.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is where things get spicy.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have brought a little bit of zest, and for once, it is not fatty, uh, just observing the spice from the ha ha.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have fatty in the mix, get in the little spicy herself, the freaking finally.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll get into it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yes, we will.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So fatty is not thrilled that Henry is here because as we know,

[SPEAKER_02]: Fanny hates him, but true bitch crackers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but because he's there There's less reason for Fanny to speak up in the group like she has less the center of attention And therefore she can just observe the party happening around her which is her favorite way to participate in a party

[SPEAKER_02]: I have to wonder though, is it her favorite way to participate in a party?

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that she gets really shy when the attention's on her, but she has opinions, and I think she does like to share them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, Fanny, Fanny, I think like Fanny's young, and we have had characters that are younger than Fanny technically, like Mary and Dashwood, for example, is younger than Fanny is in this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: but I think that Fanny doesn't know how to share her opinions.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's been told for 10 years, your thoughts don't matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she might have thoughts.

[SPEAKER_00]: She might have principles.

[SPEAKER_00]: She loves talking to Edmund, but she is not one to share what she's thinking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Generally, in part, because that's how she's been read and in part, that's her introvertedness coming out at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it is not

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Fettie's kind of like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: She likes to take in the room, hang out at the snack table, find the cat at the party, if you will.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's such a cat person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her loft apartment in New York would be all plants and a cat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so like I feel like Fanny is sitting on the floor playing with a cat at every party.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just quietly observing everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah So everyone wants Henry to extend his stay and send for his hunters.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that probably means like his his gear his crew his his the people who help him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he meets his dogs his dogs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank God

[SPEAKER_02]: I was afraid to venture that it might be dogs because Henry Crawford, you know, like does he deserve them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, listen, you and I prolific God to your dog lovers.

[SPEAKER_00]: We love dogs.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that,

[SPEAKER_00]: It is just true that a lot of shitty people have dogs, yeah, and it's Jane Austen, the dogs are there, the dogs are there especially people who hunt.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also, I don't know why because like again, we're gonna get into it in like a couple of paragraphs,

[SPEAKER_02]: kind of into it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Henry Crawford, I feel like despite being a saucy saucy minks and a naughty naughty boy, I feel like he has a really soft spot for dogs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so that's your canon, is that Henry Loses dogs a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: He loves dogs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll I'll give it to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think we have to we're going to we're going to talk about intellectually what Henry is doing here for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then what he's doing this early.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and we'll get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of conflicting stuff that's going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's there's lots to discuss with Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: He seems to want Fanny to encourage him to stay also, and she keeps answering very indifferenceally, very vaguely of being like, oh, maybe, yeah, sure, whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like he is,

[SPEAKER_02]: fine, like he's fine without the Bertram sisters there, and Fanny is clocking that, that he is just as happy to be hanging out with all of them here without the Bertram sisters as he was when he was flirting with them and acting like nothing happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Literally, until he says, I hear that Rushworth and his fair bride are at Brighton, happy man.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Mrs. Grant says, yeah, Julia is with them, too, and he says, oh, it's, it's, it's with them as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Mrs. Grant is like, Julia knows better than to talk about Yates to her dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I've just remembered the the model log and the search on this coming back from the Caribbean Yeah, the findy hates it is chambers on the end good ol yates.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he might be my like king so far in this story I got a lot of him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a love a theater boy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[SPEAKER_01]: That could love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, that was a terrible zone for everybody who had tapped that in their headphones.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then Henry goes back to talking about Rushworth, a little obsessed, Arby.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says, poor Rushworth and his 240 speeches, quote, I'm much mistaken if the lovely Mariah will ever want him to make 240 speeches to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: She is too good for him thoughts questions comments concerns first sick burn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's a really good burn It's a really good burn, but then adding she is too good for him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Almost reads like he's jealous Which I would be pissed if that's where this was headed I would be so pissed at him and what what is Fanny say to this well

[SPEAKER_02]: Fanny hates him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she hates everything that comes out of his mouth.

[SPEAKER_00]: She can tolerate his presence unless he's talking about Maria.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that really pisses her off, which is very telling because Fanny is not particularly close to Maria.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, but she's got a sense of social decorum that needs to be followed and he did not follow it.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's also like pissed that like they have shown her more of this because they underestimate it her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's seen more than the others except maybe Mary.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Mary seen more of Henry's evil because he, they're kind of in it together.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she's as simple as she knows him.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is no better than him by the end of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is a discussion to have many times through this story.

[SPEAKER_00]: The culpability of Mary Crawford with respect to Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to talk about it, or we can talk about it in the study questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, we'll get to it in the actual story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, yeah, and when it happens in the story for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot to unpack.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are really dense chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be here until midnight recording.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's like basically like the fatty nose when Henry is playing with fire.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's mad at him for how he's talking about playing with fire.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, oh, there's a really good moment where he is talking about how fun it was to be doing theater and how it was the happiest he's ever been and she thinks to herself the happiest you've ever been while you were behaving so irreproachably or whatever and oh what does she say never happier than when you were doing what you must know was not justifiable then when behaving so dishonorably and unfeelingly

[SPEAKER_02]: what a corrupted mind grumble grumble grumble we've all been there just hearing someone talking being like you are the worst person yeah and he continues trying to make conversation to her and quietly says to her that they were very unlucky in their scheme getting cut off short back thing uh the winds hadn't been in their favor or they brought Sir Thomas home too soon and

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, I'm not saying I wanted his boat to sink, but if maybe the course could have been like a little bit more whiny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or maybe there wasn't enough wind and he just sat there for another week or so.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Fanny claps back, she's bold in this moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Becca just pushed up her glasses.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a little bit of an actually, I think his boat came at the exact right time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the exact quote is, as far as I am concerned, sir, I would not have delayed his return for a day.

[SPEAKER_02]: My uncle disapproved it all so entirely when he did arrive that in my opinion, everything had gone quite far enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so, honey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, we get a little bit of a spark in a fire coming out of a little Miss Fanny.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's excellent.

[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds really dirty, but go on.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: He is surprised that she's outburst like this, but...

[SPEAKER_02]: After a brief moment, he says, I think you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We had gotten too noisy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he got sat back down and he kind of liked it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he seems to, he seems to have intrigued him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he tries to get her to engage on other topics, but she immediately retreats back into her shell and he is unsuccessful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then, Miss Crawford wonders, what Edmund Dr. Grant could be talking about for so long, and Henry says it must be about how to turn a good income into a better income, because he is giving Edmund instructions about the living he is stepping into in a few weeks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: He mentions that he hears Edmund will be well off in his new income in his new living.

[SPEAKER_02]: Plenty income to make ducks and drakes with is what he says.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I did have to google drakes which are in fact male ducks.

[SPEAKER_02]: So just to keep ducks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: and he thinks that it will all be earned without much trouble.

[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be 700 a year for making a sermon at Christmas and Easter, and he thinks that that's not a lot of work for 700 pounds, but there is also other work I'm sure that Edmund will be doing throughout the year.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says that it will be enough for his menu plays year, which is French for minor pleasures, and Mary laughs at him and says that it always amuses her, how people are so easy to quote, settle the abundance of those with less than them, essentially being like, oh yeah, that's more than enough for them to do what they want.

[SPEAKER_02]: because she would love to see him try to keep his pleasures to $700 a year, or $700 pounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't that with his fucking Baruch Landau?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's out of that lifestyle range.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says that may be true.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, Edmund is going to be well off for his birthright and his habit, which everything comes down to.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would not be well off with 700 year Edmund will be fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: He'll be 25 with 700 year and nothing to do with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary thinks to herself that he actually would have something to do with it, but she can't say that out loud.

[SPEAKER_02]: What would be her, his thing to do with it, take care of her and maybe be a base.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, a future for them.

[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to come to Edmund's first sermon.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he really waxes poetic about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have to read it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you got it.

[SPEAKER_02]: He asks Fanny to come with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says, Chicago, my show, come on, is it to be Ms. Price?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why not you join me and encouraging your cousin?

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll not even gauge to attend with your eyes, steadily fixed on him the whole time, as eyes shall do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not to lose a word or only looking off just to note down any sentence preeminently beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why him talking about him in Fanny watching Edmund give a sermon, feel so suggestive.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Henry Crawford for all of his faults is such a smooth talker.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is very smooth and it's kind of sexy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is unfortunately quite sexy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even at Edmund, it's sexy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe especially at Edmund.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you shipping?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but wouldn't that be a fun twist?

[SPEAKER_00]: If Mary ends up with Fannie and Henry ends up with Edmunds.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like when Twins get married, we try to cross.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it's kind of hot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And also, the tension is just really high in this moment because he is telling, he's saying, oh, Fannie and I are gonna watch you so closely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's trying to be flirty.

[SPEAKER_02]: at Fanny, but Fanny, like, really would be sitting there watching Edmund like that, totally and rapture by the delist passages of the Bible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so she like feels red for filth right now, and it's also tense because what it's making Mary feel.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, and Mary is

[SPEAKER_02]: is the word actually that they use by the realization that Edmund is going to be taking orders so soon, despite the fact that she was supposed to have changed him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Girl, we've learned.

[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot change a man unless you're Elizabeth Bennett.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: She thought that if he really loved her, he would never put himself in a situation that he knew she would never stoop to.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he must not have any real attachment

[SPEAKER_02]: She can admit his attentions without any idea beyond immediate amusement, aka she can continue to flirt, but it doesn't mean anything anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think she means it?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the concept is very Henry Crawford of her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, yeah, I agree that this is what Henry does.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a little less damaging to Edmund than it's going to be to Barraia or Julia or Fanny because he is what he is not engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so a man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Jesus.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in fact, it's probably more damaging to her than it would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, much more damaging to her, but I take, I think this is her angstily playing because tonight will be the night that I will fall for you on the chart.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: She is playing the harp all this is happening by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's I think she's just in her feelings in this moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's my take on this moment in particular, but it's not clear in the way that Austin writes the text.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think that she's definitely being angsty and not necessarily making any promises to herself here.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I have new ideas about where she's going to end up that I am shipping.

[SPEAKER_02]: That'll get into in the next chapter.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that she is in a good place, a good position to hurt this man.

[SPEAKER_02]: at the same time, just to not interference of Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think he ever wanted to damage Miraya, Julia's reputation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he may have known that would happen, but I think that he was looking for a good time.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's not being malicious.

[SPEAKER_02]: Similarly, I think that

[SPEAKER_02]: even if Mary can't ruin Edmund's rep- like I don't think she's looking to ruin Edmund's reputation.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think she's looking at her in his feelings.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: The way I read the where we are with Edmund and Mary currently is that I think there is genuine feeling on both sides.

[SPEAKER_00]: mm-hmm of the Mary Edmund equation and it is not so clear to me in this moment yet that there's Henry's had that with Mariah, Julia, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, they yeah, they've had it with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and he was having a good time

[SPEAKER_00]: But I genuinely think Mary and Edmund are courting each other, yeah, but she's mad at him now.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's very mad at him.

[SPEAKER_00]: The problem and I think the thing that keeps shipping away at their romance with each other is a fundamental mismatch and deeper values.

[SPEAKER_00]: And right now what we have seen is that every time they are reminded of that with each other, it chips away a little at the foundation of love that they have between the two of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a really big chip off that block.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That Edmund might be taking orders within a few weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And taking on a salary that will not satisfy Mary Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he thinks he can change her to tolerate that salary.

[SPEAKER_00]: She thinks he can change him to demand a better salary.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting reminded once again that they just don't agree on what they want in their lives no matter how attracted to each other they are.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's an important moment for them, which is I understand angstily playing the harp over that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: However,

[SPEAKER_02]: I disagree with everything else that she thinks and feels in this moment because it's pretty fucking shallow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he also he told you a million times who he is and what he wants and you just keep thinking that he will change for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't ever try to change a man, ladies.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can't fix him, unless you're Lizzy bet it, unless you're Elizabeth Bennett and then you can probably fix him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: By the next morning, Henry has decided that he is going to spend two weeks in Mansfield.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes to his sister, checks to make sure no one else is around, and then asks her how she thinks he plans to amuse himself while he isn't hunting.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she says, well, you'll probably walk and ride with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he says, that will only exercise my body.

[SPEAKER_02]: I need to exercise my mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what is his plan, the sinners?

[SPEAKER_02]: What is his plan, Molly?

[SPEAKER_02]: Tell us the plan.

[SPEAKER_02]: His plan is to make Fanny Price fall in love with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: His plan is to make Fanny Price fall in love with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my, oh my.

[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, you guys, you guys, you guys, you guys, you guys, guys, I'm not pro him doing this, but it is awesome for the plot.

[SPEAKER_00]: For now, but for the plot, also Kudos to you for calling that some, some lasagna, my grow something between these two early on in the book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I called it, you guys, I called it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here we are, and what we have seen is that Henry Crawford has now set his sights on Fanny Price.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, let's get into it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's let's unpack this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's unpack.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary is like, can't you just be satisfied with literally both of her cousins?

[SPEAKER_02]: You like, you've already done this?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Mary clearly does not want this to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in this moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, because like, that's her only friend right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine having a brother like Henry and being like, dude, I just made this friend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, terrible.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says, no, he cannot be satisfied until he

[SPEAKER_02]: weird way to put it and also like a little vicious.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is its accurate for what he is going to do if he is going to make her fall in love with him and then break her heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: There will be a small hole in her heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: He says, listen, you must not have noticed because you see her every day, but

[SPEAKER_02]: The way that he describes her in this moment does make me think that he sees her as more than just hot and I want to read it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: When we talked to her last night, you none of you seemed sensible of the wonderful improvement that has taken place in her looks within the last six weeks.

[SPEAKER_02]: You see her every day and therefore do not notice it, but I assure you she is quite a different creature from what she was in the autumn.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was then merely a quiet, modest, not plain looking girl, but now she is absolutely pretty.

[SPEAKER_02]: I used to think she had neither complexion nor countenance,

[SPEAKER_02]: But in that soft skin of hers, so frequently tinge with a blush as it was yesterday, there is decided beauty.

[SPEAKER_02]: And for what I observed of her eyes and mouth, I do not despair of there being capable of expression enough when she has anything to express.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then her air, her manner, her tutan-som, is so indescribably improved.

[SPEAKER_02]: She must be grown to inches at least in October and then she's tall.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, like, he has been paying attention.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not just about, it's mostly about her body and her face, but it's also about like, oh, she has thoughts to express.

[SPEAKER_02]: He hasn't fully seen how many thoughts she has to express yet, but he's noticed those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we know from Edmund in the last set of chapters saying in the least charismatic way possible that Fanny has grown up and gotten a little hotter recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if you recall, you're on your own, you're on your own to tell you how hot you are now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Compare that to this just for a second, one of them has game and one of them has no game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a mix going on here and Mary calls this out.

[SPEAKER_00]: How much has Fanny's appearance changed?

[SPEAKER_00]: It canonically it has.

[SPEAKER_00]: But how much is it that Mirai and Julia are gone?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that Fanny's a little mean to him.

[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of this chapter is just him having a canke for someone being mean to him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it was, it's William Darcy could effort.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, it's not even just specifically that she's mean to him because Fanny has never really mean.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's that Fanny is uninterested in him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, she's not going to agree with everything that he says.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have learned about Henry Crawford that hot energy rolls off this man in droves and that he loves this about himself and that he uses it to his advantage to have fun and play games.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he is rolling this hot energy off himself towards this little 18 year old girl and she's heading him back with like, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that isn't treating him because usually women fall over him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, where I am, Julia.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nice contrast.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lovely contrast.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also, I will say this, we all know this man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The guy who needs to get the woman who is least interested in him, interested in him, no matter what.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a game for some guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a forbidden aspect to it, but it's like not forbidden for Henry it, precisely.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more that like, he's a matter of pride himself on bringing women to their knees.

[SPEAKER_00]: and making them fall in love with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny, by all accounts should be the easiest mark, but already she is more challenging than her more educated sexier, more arrogant cousins.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's more of a puzzle for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and he loves a puzzle.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he's just said all of this and Mary is like, you only think she's taller because there's no tall women to compare her to now and also she was marrying a nice gown and you never seen her in a nice gown, but she hasn't actually changed her at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really the only reason that you are interested in hers because she's the only girl in company for you to notice.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you must have a somebody is the exact quote.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary agrees though that family is pretty, but she's not striking and there's not a huge improvement and even if you do chase her, you're not going to convince me, Mary, that it's because of her beauty, it's just because of your idleness and folly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he just continues being like, I don't know what to make of her, is she solemn, is she queer, is she prudish?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why doesn't she like me?

[SPEAKER_02]: He's never met a girl who doesn't like him before, like you just said.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's never met a girl who does like him before, and Mary's like, you piece of shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: You guys love to love you, you can't have.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, so that's why she's got your eye.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's because she was mean to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: She hopes that he won't break Fanny's heart because she really does like Fanny and Fanny's too good a person for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like,

[SPEAKER_02]: She's a sweet girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you do with it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she does think a little love might do Fanny's some good like if I help animate her, but don't go too far.

[SPEAKER_02]: Essentially is what she says And this is where Mary loses be a little fight a little bit harder for your friend girl But the thing is that she's saying you're only interested in Fanny because she's the only girl around now But that is also true of Mary Crawford

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, because there were other men around, and she was interested in, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry, I should specify, she's only interested in Fanny's friendship, because there's no other girls around.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yes, yeah, that is true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so she's like, she's a few thing to move this, but she literally, that is why she's friends with Fanny and why she's been hanging out with her.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like that's also how Teter Thomas is operating.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, that's how all of them are operating.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like the moment that Orion Julia leave the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, oh, Fanny, tick over as young girl in a house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just realizing now that like, I was like so siding against Henry Crawford when I was reading this, but it's also true of literally everybody else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that's accurate and we will get to listeners do not worry.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get to the study questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are not going to entirely let Henry Crawford off the hook for this horrendous behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: No matter how sexy it is when he says it.

[UNKNOWN]: Yes, he says.

[SPEAKER_02]: You all saw, I don't know if you all saw on Instagram, but I texted Becca as soon as he said I will I'm gonna make Fannie Crawford fall in love with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I texted her I cannot believe the audacity of this man or something like that and I cannot However, this man has a lot of audacity.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just simply carries it on a lot of nice words a lot of charm

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's a very fun character to read.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, like, we'll get to this, like, we are really, like, not in Fanny's what have you right now at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, correct.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't know what she's thinking about all this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not quite yet, not yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I am getting excited because I like a rom-com and this finally is starting to feel like one.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Henry says, if two weeks can break Fanny's heart, then her constitution is to blame not me, which is unfair, but he says that he's not gonna do her harm.

[SPEAKER_02]: He just wants her to be constantly thinking about him and also never be happy again after he's gone, but nothing else.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is my funniest quote, so I'm gonna save reading it for later, but I thought this was really funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Mary sarcastically is like, oh, you are moderation itself.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then tells him that she sees Fanny often.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he's going to have plenty of opportunities to make an impression on her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.

[SPEAKER_02]: She just leaves Fanny to her fate of being preyed upon by this man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Much like she did to Mariah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: During

[SPEAKER_02]: So Jane Austen and her rocking chair comes out first person, turns to the camera, turns to the camera and says, while there are doubtless unconscribable young ladies of 18 who would never be persuaded into love against their better judgment, I do not think Fannie Price is one of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, Fannie Price is in love with another man, she is currently salvaged from the situation by her deep outeration for her entirely, uh,

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, her love for her first cousin Edmund.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank God, thank God for cousin love.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, Henry continues his attentions and he adapts them.

[SPEAKER_02]: to what she is giving back.

[SPEAKER_02]: He adapts them to her gentleness and delicacy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And soon, she hates him a little less.

[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't like him, but she hates him a little less.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you can see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this also tells you something about Aria Bertram in like the first half of this book, which is that Henry is a chameleon to what the woman wants.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the first half of this book where I was looking for a little bit of danger, she was a little bit excitement.

[SPEAKER_00]: Vinnie is not looking for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: She carries a deep longing for her like really boring first cousin who has been like a brother to her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you see, okay, and Henry gets to know where any starts to adapt himself by being a little gentler, by being a little bit more polite.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Vinnie's like, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can exist around me.

[SPEAKER_02]: How are we supposed to know if someone is being a conniving chameleon or if they are genuinely changing to make someone more comfortable and like adapting to a situation isn't necessarily a bad thing?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, not at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's more to go off of here because like I said, we do not live exclusively in Fanny's point of view in the shopders.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we live with Henry's point of view for a good chunk of this chapter, which is really interesting because he's frankly been a side show for most of the books so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, an entertaining one, but aside shown on the less.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So pulling back Jane Austen says, don't worry listeners, don't worry readers.

[SPEAKER_00]: You thought Fannie was going to be strong enough to resist this guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is not, but don't you worry about Fannie?

[SPEAKER_00]: She has another iron in the fire that is keep it are going pretty strong.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we could just watch this transpire and not

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And actually, Fanny has other things to worry about or to be happy about now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she has not dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her brother William is not dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, she's been corresponding with him, religiously for seven years.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we didn't really get to hear about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about the fact that she corresponds quite regularly with her brother William.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did.

[SPEAKER_00]: We never got to read any of their correspondence.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, we did not.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we did know it was ongoing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did.

[SPEAKER_00]: But more importantly, you wanted to know if any new characters were going to get introduced.

[SPEAKER_00]: William prices coming back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he is he is arriving back in the United Kingdom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she had gotten a letter from him, but Henry had actually been trying to bring the news to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: He had found out about William the day before.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so he was like, I'm going to go find out where her brother is now.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes into town.

[SPEAKER_02]: He finds out that her brother is coming back.

[SPEAKER_02]: He gets all excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: He brings the news back to her and he finds her with a letter all excited that Her brother is coming back and he's like Rats because he thought that bringing this news to her would Maker fall in love with him which is like kind of a sweet thing to do though and Fanny is like that is that is very sweet of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Yeah

[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of perceptive for him to like she's talking about her brother.

[SPEAKER_02]: He finds out he's like, oh, that her brother lights her up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let me go find out where her brother is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then he he like relies on a relationship with the admiral that he had built over time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And how he always gets the news from this guy and he's like, I'm going to go find him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And all to get Fanny price to be a little bit more in love with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, it's like almost like if it's almost like he wanted to make her happy almost anyway she recognizes that it was very sweet of him and she even warmly thanks him because she's in a such a flutter over her brother coming home that she can't be timid which she normally is so William is coming to them it's going to be the first time she's seen him in seven years 10 days later she is anxiously awaiting his arrival.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like walking up and down the stairs.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's waiting in the hallway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here I have, and everyone goes away to give them a moment alone so that she is the person to greet him, which is very sweet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just like gonna pull you back and not to make you cry right now, but like in the first chapter of this book, she was crying in this home without a friend in the world and all she wanted was her older brother.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here he is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is really sweet and I'm really happy that he finally gets to come and there is like this sadness that's changed with it though because she hasn't seen him in seven years and there's this quote, this is before the disappointment inseparable from the alteration of person had vanished and she could see in him the same William as before and talked to him as to her heart had been yearning to do gives kind of the vibe of like

[SPEAKER_02]: The Moscow of her memory doesn't exist anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: The William of her memory is gone.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been replaced by this like man who has been to see and has seen the world and has been fighting potentially and he's still her brother and she still loves him.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she has to change her expectations of who he is or what he is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'm sure it goes the other way too.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was the little sister who is also the oldest leading all of his younger siblings around in Portsmouth, and now she is this elegant, educated, accomplished young woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen, she's not as accomplished as a Mariah or Julia, but she is certainly much more accomplished than he is used to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're a little different, but they are the same in their business.

[SPEAKER_02]: If he knew how she was treated, I think he would burn this place to the ground.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you get a hint of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: When do we get a hint of that?

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the only things they disagree on is how harsh to be on out Norris.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but okay, before we get to their conversations, I wanted to say that when so he he's arrived and Edmund and Sir Thomas are like making sure Mrs. Norris specifically stays away from the reuniting because they want to make sure she has like a nice

[SPEAKER_02]: moment with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it takes her some time to recover from her initial like whip lash of like I haven't seen my brother in seven years and now oh my god here he is.

[SPEAKER_02]: But eventually she does recover and she can see that she is still the first object of his love.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he is much better at expressing his feelings than she is, so he tells her how he's feeling, which is nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then they settle into their life here a little bit and they're walking together every day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Sir Thomas and Edmund are watching them and seeing Fanny enjoying herself and they're feeling happy about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: and she has never been so happy in her life except for the moments where Edmund like randomly compliments her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which I mean like poor William because William literally like survived the seas, the high seas writing to his sister constantly for seven years and made his way two mansfield park to see her as one of like the first acts when he comes back a shore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Edmund just as like sometimes like oh I had you a pen don't worry.

[SPEAKER_01]: So some day listeners, someone's gonna call us out and be like, excuse you, you're so at fair to Edmund Bertram.

[SPEAKER_01]: Today is not that day, and we will continue to be irritated by this character, sorry to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can get mad at us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Get mad.

[SPEAKER_01]: I dare you to defend Edmund Bertram to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So

[SPEAKER_02]: William is her best just friend in the whole wide world.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she can talk freely to him.

[SPEAKER_02]: He cares what she thinks.

[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to hear what's going on with her.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on in her head.

[SPEAKER_02]: He can tell her about her family.

[SPEAKER_02]: And their opinions, like you said, differ only in that.

[SPEAKER_02]: He thinks that they should be harsher on Mrs. Norris for what a dick she is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Fanny's like, oh, it's not that bad, and he's like, fuck her!

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Love William, love his stance on Mrs. Norris.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: They talk about the past together and Jane Austen piece her head out once again to say that siblings have a special bomb that cannot be matched by anyone later in life because they don't share those same early memories that siblings share with each other

[SPEAKER_02]: Which is especially speed knowing how close Jane Austen was with her sister not only her sister, but her brother in the Navy, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And her brother in the Navy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone loves William and Henry is jealous.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't, don't, don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important to read through how he talks about her when she's with William.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: OK, an affection so amiable was advancing each in the opinion of all who had hearts to value anything good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Henry Crawford was as much struck with it as any.

[SPEAKER_02]: He honored the warm-hearted blunt fondness of the young sailor, which led him to say with his hand stretched toward Vanne's head, do you know, I begin to like that queer fashion already, though when I first heard of such things being done in England, I could not believe it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's this whole

[SPEAKER_02]: And saw, with lively admiration, the glow of Fanny's cheek, the brightness of her eye, the deep interest, the absorbed attention, while her brother was describing any of the imminent hazards or terrific scenes, which such a period at see much supply, he loves watching Fanny listen to her brother talk.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and he loves watching her blush.

[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: specifically these looks are not generally reserved for Henry.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does not get to be the one to make her face light up, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But William does.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Henry gets to witness William do that, and it changes fanning.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that makes him jealous and intrigued.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny that it's her brother that he's jealous of.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean here, let's like maybe just like take a minute to like talk about

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was her brother.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is the most important person in her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: The second most important person in her life is her sorry, get brother, who is also her first cousin and her everlasting crush.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the two get compared pretty constantly.

[SPEAKER_00]: which is awkward, so there's something to the fact that William and Edmund are constantly compared to the two most important people in Fennies life, the two objects of her most deep affections, and they're both very brotherly towards her.

[SPEAKER_00]: William is literally her brother, Edmund is kind of like her brother, except he's her first cousin who was raised like her brother,

[SPEAKER_00]: and also her love interest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it is dicey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jane, I have notes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, the actual interactions between William and Fanny in this chapter are so heartwarming and so well rendered that I am completely fine with it as long as they are not actively compared to

[SPEAKER_02]: No, and I think also like what Henry is getting jealous of is not necessarily William, but more the way Fanny is opening up to him, and he wants Fanny to open up to himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone wants to be looked at a certain way, and Henry Crawford has sworn off love at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Fanny is a reserved person who does not let herself open up to many people.

[SPEAKER_00]: we know like as human beings alive today and we haven't had many opportunities to talk about love and how this relates to our experience in life, but we know what it means to see someone talk about something they love, to see someone be with someone they love.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be romantic to be powerful and what Henry is observing is Fanny's presence with someone she loves, her

[SPEAKER_00]: And I understand exactly what Henry is thinking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that he thinks that Hany is love with her brother.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is that Fanny is coming alive with her brother there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her brother who has been gone at sea for seven years, who she has not seen for seven years, and who is reawakening parts of herself that she's had to shut down in front of most people in her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is what Henry is observing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is what is intriguing him right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think Jane Austen does render that in a way that I personally feel like I understand and see totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he watching her do that increases her attractions for him also.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's this quote that I wanted to read and I'll just read it, he was no longer in doubt of the capabilities of her heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: She had feeling genuine feeling.

[SPEAKER_02]: It would be something to be loved by such a girl to excite the first argers of her young, unsophisticated mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: She interested him more than he had foreseen, which I think is

[SPEAKER_02]: cute but a little offensive because on the one hand he is seeing

[SPEAKER_02]: the actual depth of character that she has and that she has feeling in emotions and thoughts and things that she cares about like you are just saying and on the other hand he's like yeah and I'd be the first person to ever make her fall in love with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not expecting that she could possibly have already had that experience but she very much has.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, she's so little and young.

[SPEAKER_00]: This goes to the intersection of what's happening here, which is, I think, really, really fun to read because it is equal parts, app, orient, and enrapturing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he is objectifying her.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is, we'll get into it a little bit more in the study questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not enough that we've discussed the class dynamics.

[SPEAKER_00]: of what Henry's doing here, and what it might mean for a girl like Fanny to think she caught the affection of a man like Henry.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not enough discussion of the way that Fanny has been toyed with everybody in her life, for her whole life.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has been a pawn.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's been tossed from place to place.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has not been given

[SPEAKER_00]: the capacity to be seen as a fully realized human being with feelings, so it is demeaning for him to be like, yeah, who would have thought fennies this like complex engaging person at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So few people see Fanny as a complex engaging person, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we are human beings, you and me, we are women of flesh and blood.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to have a reaction to a man with hot energy, starting to show tender parts of himself, and starting to notice things about a woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's gonna be a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think both things are really, really true here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have the thought of what trope I this is and what trope I want it to be and how to lose a guy in 10 days 27 dresses like any movie where a guy or a woman is writing an article about someone is learning for the bit and falling in love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's what I want to happen here.

[SPEAKER_00]: learning for the bit and falling in love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha.

[SPEAKER_02]: So whatever magazine he works at, let's find out.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I prefer it weekly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why I'm so I think that is why, because 27 dresses was my favorite movie for like,

[SPEAKER_02]: several years, however we not talked about this 27 dresses, it was your favorite movie.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was obsessed with 27 dresses.

[SPEAKER_00]: What, okay, listen, that is a classic rom-com, but I think that is so funny because I think of 27 dresses as like the quintessential rom-com and that I think it has every

[SPEAKER_00]: every single one.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got, get and change in the back of the cab.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have doing it for the article.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have cynical man and earnest woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have overlooked younger sister to bitchy blonde older sister in a really sexist way that poor male and acumen has to deal with a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have unrequited love.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have Judy Greer playing the best friend always.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have her working for some sort of like indescript magazine thing and him working for some indescript magazine thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Always the bridesmaid never the bridesmaid.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have a dance sequence to a classic like oldie.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have the costume montage.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have the one person of color who is the token best friend to the dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have, I think it is every single trope.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every single one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And why do you think I love it so much?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not saying I just think it's so funny, like, like, like, I think of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's a classic, but it's, I don't think of it as a favorite, because it's just so around calm, so heavily in like a specific way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's just so

[SPEAKER_00]: focused on being a rom-com that sometimes it does forget to be a plot, not in the bad way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a delightful movie, but if you compare it to like all one Harry Met Sally, and it's I think it's Alien Brush McKenna wrote it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like really classic rom-com screenwriter.

[SPEAKER_00]: How did you know that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I love alien brush manna.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's very smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do not need to shit on 27 dresses.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do really like that movie.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a perfect rom-com.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a quintessential rom-com.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so anyway, all that to say,

[SPEAKER_02]: that Henry Crawford is pulling a 27 dresses here is similarly pulling it out of the guy in 10 days.

[SPEAKER_02]: I could probably think of more of these, but accidentally catching feelings while flirting for the bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, as we were, we are so close listeners to the end of these two chapters, and then we just have a thousand study questions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so

[SPEAKER_02]: Sir Thomas calls on William a lot to talk about his travels and everyone loves to hear about his adventures and Henry feels a little jealous while listening to the adventures because he's kind of like, oh, maybe I should have gone to see and been more like William Price.

[SPEAKER_02]: So much heroism and usefulness and exertion and endurance and I mean, why I'm just me.

[SPEAKER_02]: He acknowledges his own selfish indulgence and feels shame for all of like four

[SPEAKER_02]: Until someone asks him if he wants to go hunting tomorrow and William expresses a wish to hunt and he's like, oh right, I'm rich.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can provide William with all of the equipment and the horse to hunt tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's my purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have done my duty for my country.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's like, thank God, I'm rich.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fanny is nervous for William, despite him having had seven years of experience in the Navy, she's worried he's going to fall off his horse and she won't be easy until he returns in one piece.

[SPEAKER_02]: Once that successfully happens, she can admit that Henry has done William a kindness in bringing him hunting and she gives Henry a smile and that

[SPEAKER_02]: Insights Henry to say William can use his horse for as long as he remains at Northampton sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is the end of that chapter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get to today's questions, I'll say this very quickly, Fanny.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not an expert on horse riding or sailing, but my understanding of the difficulty and danger of being on a ship in her Majesty's fleet in this time period compared to riding a horse is so different in terms of like skills that's like

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, William does the hard thing and was probably on a horse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, but Fanny's world is so small.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm like a Fanny girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that brings us to the study questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have got it so over, but

[SPEAKER_01]: We have some spicy and we are holding on to it for dear life listeners.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Patreon study questions to start listeners as a reminder.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want us to answer your questions on the air, you can join our Patreon at the $15 tier.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got a lot of questions for these chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I do not ask one of your questions, I apologize.

[SPEAKER_00]: I promise I'm trying to ask at least one per patron because I want to make sure you guys all get to partake in the conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if I do miss something, I apologize.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to group together questions from Avi and Janae.

[SPEAKER_00]: about Fanny's new sort of place at Man's Field Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, they both sort of asked about how she's becoming more central to the story, and that sort of Thomas is making her more central to his experience at Man's Field Park.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does the say about how the characters are feeling about Fanny?

[SPEAKER_00]: And whether or not this is good for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that Sir Thomas doesn't necessarily think more highly of Fanny than he did, like I don't think that he has clocked that he was ever a bad uncle to Fanny, but I think that now that she is the only young woman in his life, he's just placing his affections on her, but I'm not getting the sense that he like specifically.

[SPEAKER_02]: loves her anything but at the same time there are several moments where he's watching her and he's he's proud of her for being on time for the carriage and he watches her walking with his with her brother and seeing how happy she is and that makes him feel

[SPEAKER_02]: good and happy for her and proud of her.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that he's starting to notice her more and that will make him probably think highly of her because she is a good person and also shares a lot of his values and he's never noticed that before.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's literally raised herself in his image because she thought that she had to to earn her place here and has never gotten his approval from him.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that he might not yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: think more highly of anything he did before, but he is definitely become kinder and more affectionate towards her and he definitely will start to think highly of her I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: When given the opportunity, worry about what happens when Julia comes back, but we'll talk about that in another time and then ask her whether her more central position at Mansfield is a good thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it, I think it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: except for the fact that it has put her in the line of fire for Henry Crawford, which is probably a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have two things to add here that I think go off your various student observations.

[SPEAKER_00]: One is I still feel very strongly that um, Sir Thomas' experience in Antigua started to muddle the, the class distinctions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: the question is really like how deep that goes, but right now while his daughters are gone and Fanny's been so pleasant and she wasn't involved in the play, this is like a perfect time for him to kind of feel like she's with him and his home.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of whether or not this is positive, you've said basically like they have formed her with their morals and they've treated her poorly.

[SPEAKER_00]: wants us to be judging the Bertram's pretty hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a real question of how much of a reward it is for Fanny to rise to the top of a bad system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just planting that right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Much to consider.

[SPEAKER_00]: Much to consider.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So next question, we're going to do Linnea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Linnea asks at the end of chapter five, Mary's in the same position as Mariah.

[SPEAKER_00]: She expected her lover to do what she wanted, but he didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do their reactions compare slash contrast?

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Mariah reacted by getting married to another man.

[SPEAKER_02]: She sure did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and to be fair to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was already engaged to that man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, she engaged.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've never mentioned it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she reacted as like, I'm going to get my bag live as well as I can and not give him the satisfaction of having broken my heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, I'm also going to like act like it never happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary is angry at him, but at this point.

[SPEAKER_02]: has not said that she is going to go flirt elsewhere, she still wants to flirt with him, she still wants to hang out, but she's claiming that it's not going to mean anything to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we haven't seen them interact since that night.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know how far she's going to take her flirtations and whether she's going to hurt him.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's funny, it's not funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like Mariah and Mary played opposite roles kind of in the downfall of their relationships, because

[SPEAKER_02]: Mariah got duped by a man who she thought loved her and was going to change her situation and like was going to propose to her and she could leave the man that she didn't love.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mary is the one orchestrating the break up in her mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think nothing is going to be more rash than marrying another man just to say fuck you to your ex.

[SPEAKER_00]: But once again, one that you were already engaged to, yeah, you were sure engaged in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that does change the calculation slightly, but still.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that angstily playing the heart at least is and swip for swearing the man for now is a better reaction than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: not a great reaction, but also like neither what of them was reasonable and thinking they could change the man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think what Mariah was asking for was a bit more reasonable.

[SPEAKER_02]: On the one hand, yes, and then also the men's offenses were very different.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of them was flirting with her with no intent to marry, and the other one is just being in the clergy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And has never lied about the fact

[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I think Henry certainly hid the ball on his intentions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's a different villain in each of these relationships, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, speaking of villains, Angelica asks, when Henry shares his plan with Mary to, quote, make a hole in Fanny's heart, the narrator tells us she leaves Fanny to her fate.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you make of this decision?

[SPEAKER_00]: What does it reveal about Mary's morality?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does it change how you feel about her at this point?

[SPEAKER_02]: So like you said, it's the same thing she did to Mariah.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're just more emotionally attached to fanning.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, even at the time, we thought it was bad that she was letting it happen to Mariah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm trying to think back.

[SPEAKER_02]: to what I said about it, then I imagine I said something along the lines of like it's not her job to make sure that other people are doing what they're supposed to be doing, but also like it makes her less of a good person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now that they're attacking our main character.

[SPEAKER_02]: It reinforces, to me, that Mary really doesn't care that much about Fanny, and we talked about this a little already, but the fact that she and Henry both are interested in Fanny for the same reason, which is that they're bored, and that's the person who's there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that sucks.

[SPEAKER_00]: She at least puts up slightly more of an effort with Fanny, but it is completely damning that she just goes well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Only brick art, a little, I guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, even from the beginning, she's like, a little love might do her good, but please don't break her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm off two minds on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I made it pretty clear.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we can talk a little bit more about hand race culpability here too,

[SPEAKER_00]: is one thing to play fast and loose with engaged Mariah or high-born and hopeful Julia, Fanny comes from nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know, an advantageous match for a woman like Fanny is life-changing because of the economics of dating in Jane Austen, Graham the sound effect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Henry is very wealthy, and pulling out from the fact that we know Fanny doesn't like Fanny right now, and we know that she is holding a torch for her cousin Edmund.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we didn't know that, if he were just going for Fanny and trying to toy with her emotions, the idea,

[SPEAKER_00]: of playing with the reputation and hopes of a woman whose situation in life would be completely different if Henry Crawford were to be in love with her is not good behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: The flippancy with which they both treat that I think is the worst part of it for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That being said,

[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, as I have said, I find Henry fairy engaging in these chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that, and what we'll get to it, the way that the narration goes, gives us some of the contours.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we were just getting Pheneas perspective after hearing that conversation between Mary and Henry, Henry's actions would be a port.

[SPEAKER_00]: or not, we're getting Henry's perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess we're going to skip to my study question about the different relations in this chapter because it's giving us the Henry's actually observing things he's drawn to in Fanny.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's learning about her and it's making him want to act differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: He wants to, you know, he's enshamed that William has done more for his country than

[SPEAKER_00]: And to go back to marry on this, the thing that's like giving me pause about it is I have this thing about men doing terrible things and the women who are complicit or complacent in those things being more criticized than the man doing the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not defending Mary's actions here.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are bad actions.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is being mad.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it bothers me that she gets as hard a time on this as Henry, because I do think Henry is the one who's choosing to do this, and Mary would prefer he didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, what is she supposed to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Here she is tried to encourage him away from it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would want her to try harder.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd maybe try to warn Fanny if I were her, but like you said There's only so much she could do in this situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like that's my tune But it's on this like you heard me talk very passionately about like how cruel it is to a woman like Fanny to play with her this way

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how unacceptable it is to be Blasay about her feelings in this manner.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, Mary's not the one who's doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Henry's the one doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hold man accountable for their actions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's like, women can be evil.

[SPEAKER_00]: Women do evil things all the time, but a woman knowing a man's doing an evil thing and being hypocritical about it is objectively less bad than the man doing the bad thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, Mary Crawford's own evil actions are not really, she's not being evil of her own volition.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mary Crawford's sin at this point in the book, and it's not, I don't want to like discount it because it is a problem, is a real loose relationship with what is morally and socially acceptable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she is deeply charming.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is not a monster.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's a bit of an asshole, but one who has feelings, which I think makes her a pretty cool character to read.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this set of chapters kind of showcases this perfectly.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is hurting over what's going on with her an advent,

[SPEAKER_00]: She's not necessarily being brought fair to Edmund, she's not necessarily being never fair to Fanny, she should be pushing back harder against her brother's bad actions.

[SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, loose morals is really her person, not any like active action happening right now that is harming another person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just to go back to the the narration question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a backest any question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Austin's swapping back and forth between narrators in this chapter is really crucial to how this book goes forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you said something about if we were just getting Fanny's perspective, Henry's actions would be a poorant.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if we're thinking of it from Fanny's perspective, she doesn't know that he's doing this on purpose.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like she just thinks that she's getting attention from him.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, I guess from our perspective, if we know that, then it feels, then it's heartbreaking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so what I'm saying is, if we get a picture of the conversation between Henry and Mary and then we just swapped if Annie's perspective, first of all, Fanny doesn't realize he's giving her attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny thinks he's being a little bit more pleasant this time around and maybe he's not quite as bad as she thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she is not clocking that he is flirting with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_00]: but if I'm reading the chapter and I'm not getting what Henry's thinking in these chapters, then what I'm thinking is this manipulative son of a bitch.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're right, you're right, but because we got his perspective, there's that poll of like, oh wait, he thinks that she's smart and pretty.

[SPEAKER_00]: He noticed the blush on her cheek and thought, my God, what it would be like to be loved by this woman.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's hot.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's hot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it does like it gives us also like mixed feelings about him as the reader and we don't have a bona fide villain except for Mrs. Norris.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mrs. Norris is taking the cake for like one note character like she's just going to be bad the whole time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But everybody else is living in different shades of gray and a lot of these characters are a pretty dark shade of gray and Jade Austin is judging them hard But I find the Crawford's in particular pretty interesting because you do slip into their perspective

[SPEAKER_00]: Every so often and they are people with feelings and like you're getting to feel their feelings with them and Say what you want about Henry Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sure have It is a breath of fresh air to have him feel a romantic thought and to read it compared to Fanny's on going morose crush on Edmund

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So back to Henry and back to William.

[SPEAKER_00]: There were a couple questions on Henry, Fanny and William, back to back.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to wrap it fire through those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is from Jean-Ae.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think Henry Crawford has spent time around people like Fanny and William and is that part of the interest?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he has not.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he is

[SPEAKER_02]: despite loving to like move around and never be in one place.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's kind of sheltered and has only known other people like him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of a different question between William and Fanny though.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I don't know how different Fanny translates to the Crawfords than her cousins.

[SPEAKER_02]: you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he hasn't spent much time around people like William, who comes from nothing and has worked his way up in the Navy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he spent a lot of time around people like many either.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know that he is cognizant of that fact.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: All he's clocking is this person doesn't like me.

[SPEAKER_02]: He hasn't spent time around people who don't like him who haven't, aren't charred by him.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in that way, men who are not charmed by him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So in that way, he hasn't spent time with people like Fannie and that is part of the interest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that his interest in William mostly stems from how Fannie lights up around him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also, I mean, he seems to have some interest in William's sacrifices for his country, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it makes Henry feel like he is shallow again for like four seconds, but yes, he does have his like, I got this.

[SPEAKER_00]: borrow my horse for our hunting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yes, he does have that thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: From Angelica, Henry's Envious of Williams Honorable and Natural Claims to many's attention, what does this reveal about his motivations and how Henry understands love?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's interesting because, yeah, Fanny loves William and he thinks what would it be like to be loved by a woman like that, but it's not the kind of love that he's looking for.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that he might, and this is rapid fire thoughts, but maybe he doesn't, he's never really experienced love outside of familial love, so he doesn't know what he's looking for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you recall one of the first interactions we had between the Crawford siblings, like way back at the very beginning of the book was Henry talking about how useless marriage was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, boring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of this is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly he's looking at Fannie, look at William and saying, what would it be like to be loved by that woman?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's never won in that before.

[SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't, like, officially has said, that's not my bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, Molly interesting, all right, this is also from Angelica

[SPEAKER_00]: There are a ton of sibling sets in this book, and in most Austin novels, we finally see Fanny and William together in these chapters.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think Austin is doing with so many siblings sets in this book and do you think it's intentional?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I do think it is intentional.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it is a lot of sets of siblings.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess Edmund and Tom and Mariah and Julia are all siblings, but they kind of come in pairs.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we get to see

[SPEAKER_02]: Opposites amongst the siblings are not opposites, but see how their upbringings have kind of grown on each of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: So same with them, same with Fanny and William and how they were born at the same level and have changed as they've grown up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mariah and Julia are kind of like two sides of the same coin and then Marion Henry are obviously very similar in a lot of ways and it's definitely intentional and a common I think on not like nature versus nurture per se but like

[SPEAKER_02]: how our upbringing can shape us and how much of our intrinsic selves affect how we turn out and how much of that is from an external force.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that the fact of the other siblings and the novel highlights how fanning and William do not get the luxury to grow up together.

[SPEAKER_00]: that is a luxury to have in this world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jan also in her rocking chair pops in to say so exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the gratitude that they get to have any time together is part of the relationship between the two of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think this is, we talked about this a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we feel Jane Austen's affection for her own brothers in this character.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it is like a tragedy that these two kids do not get to be together in their youth.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have your Henry and your Mary very close siblings who kind of get up to be gay and do crime together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, they would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have the lack of love that is like palpable amongst the Bertram siblings.

[SPEAKER_00]: Julia Mariah have some affection for each other but we saw how thin it was when you put one man in the mix.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it like the fact that these two only get these briefs fits together is the tragedy of the class distinction between these characters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have one Becca study question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to end it on before we go to the standby.

[SPEAKER_02]: How sincere do you think Henry is at this point?

[SPEAKER_02]: He is sincerely bored, but I also do think that everything that he is saying that he's seeing in Fanny is true and I think that he is recognizing that I don't think he is sincerely looking for love or like a relationship at this moment, but I do think that he is in danger of falling in love with Fanny.

[SPEAKER_02]: because this is ultimately a romance novel partially and partially because the way that he talks about the way that her face lights up, when she blushes, when she talks to her brother, when she yells at him, he is interested in her, like the book says, more than he expected.

[SPEAKER_02]: He would be.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I will not do her any harm, dear little soul.

[SPEAKER_02]: I only want her to look kindly on me, to give me smiles as well as blushes, to keep a chair for me by herself wherever we are, and to be all animation when I take it and talk to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: To think, as I think, be interested in all my possessions and pleasures, try to keep me longer at Mansfield, and feel when I go away that she shall never be happy again.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want nothing more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Questions moving forward?

[SPEAKER_02]: How long is William going to stay?

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I want to know if Henry and Fanny are going to fall in love.

[SPEAKER_02]: And oh my god, I didn't even say my prediction, which is when William showed up, I wanted to call.

[SPEAKER_02]: that I think Mary and William are going to be a thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I said that early on, I don't remember why I said that early on, and I don't remember if it was Mary that I was talking about, but I definitely talked about William as a love interest for someone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I think that I think I said that anyway, now I definitely think William and Mary that I think he might be her rebound, but and then that would be sad for William for sure, but that's what I think at this current juncture.

[SPEAKER_02]: So is that going to happen?

[SPEAKER_02]: And those are my questions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who wins the chapters?

[SPEAKER_02]: William, William, let's give it to William because he showed up and he made Fanny really happy and he's not dead and we're happy about that, but also honorable mention to Henry Crawford because he did work his charms and he did work on me a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So all right, I think that's very valid, very fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you listeners that concludes this episode of pod and prejudice for next time listeners we're going to unsurprisingly read the next two chapters of Mansfield Park chapters 25 and 26 or if you're in a volume to book volume the second chapters 7 and 8.

[SPEAKER_00]: Molly, are you ready?

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, until next time, stay proper.

[SPEAKER_00]: And lend someone a horse to your part for your country.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think for your country?

[SPEAKER_01]: lend someone a horse?

[SPEAKER_02]: Potten Prejudice is edited by Molly Birdick and audio produced by Graham Cook.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our show art is designed by Torrance Brown.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our show is transcribed by speech docs, podcast transcription.

[SPEAKER_02]: For transcripts and to learn more about our team, check out our website at pottenprejudice.com.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Stay proper!