Mansfield Park Vol. 2 Ch. 7-8
The families gather for a game night, and shenanigans ensue. Henry pays a visit to Edmund's future home, which sparks some feelings in Fanny and Mary. Sir Thomas catches on to Henry's intentions with Fanny and decides to throw a ball. Mary gives Fanny an unexpected gift.
Topics discussed include falling in love for the bit, Molly's competitive side, whether Henry can change, predictions for William's hotness, Sir Thomas's Pinterest board, our first male pre-proposal POV, and team Hanny vs. team Fanmund.
Patron Study Questions this week come from Avi. Topics discussed include William's cross being modeled off a gift Jane Austen received from her own brother.
Becca's Study Questions: Topics discussed include Sir Thomas's interest in Henry and throwing a ball, the discussion of Edmund's estate, Edmund's internal monologue, the purpose of the ball, and why Mary gave Fanny her chain.
Funniest Quote: “No, I never inquire. But I told a man mending a hedge that it was Thornton Lacey, and he agreed to it.”
Questions moving forward: Who will dance with each other at the ball?
Who wins the chapters? Sir Thomas!
Glossary of Terms and Phrases:
Avarice (n): extreme greed for wealth or material gain.
Glossary of People, Places, and Things: Ten Things I Hate About You, She's All That, Pygmalion, My Fair Lady, Cruel Intentions, Catan, Heated Rivalry
Next Episode: Mansfield Park Volume II Chapters 9-10
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any new patrons to thank today, so we want to take this time to remind you that if you want to join our Discord community, submit study questions, and join in on our future Mansfield Park Watch Parties, you can check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash pod and prejudice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, enjoy this week's episode covering Volume 2 chapters 7 and 8 of Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Becca.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Molly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here to talk about Jane Austen.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here specifically to talk about Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listeners, if you're new here, I Becca have read many Jane Austen novels through my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Molly, and reading all of her works for the first time through this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to hear Molly read through Pride and Pragittas since in sensibility, Emma, or persuasion for the first time, you can listen to seasons one, two, three, and four of this podcast respectively, but that is not what we're doing here today.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, today we are talking about Mansfield Park, volume 2, chapters 7 and 8, or if your book is not broken up into volumes chapters 25 and 26.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and I feel very funny about having split up the chapters the way I did here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did this on purpose, even though it's like a weird spot to end on, but you'll you'll understand when we get to the next couple chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it didn't feel weird to me, but I look forward to finding out what happens next exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so what happened last time is that our saucy little naughty boy, Henry Crawford, has decided that his new plan is to make Fanny Price fall in love with him and break her heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of our patrons has requested merch that says Henry Crawford is a naughty naughty boy to go with the Eleanor Dashwood is a goddamn lie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think we got to make it happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's not he's a naughty boy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is indeed he's and he's brought the spice into the book a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's thrilling.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it has also after listening to last week's episode, which for contact listeners came out yesterday in real time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I listened to it two nights ago, came into the bedroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, Mel, what is that movie where there's a guy and he's just so surprised the first time he meets someone who doesn't like him and he's like, oh my god, I have to have you because you hate me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like a sleep and she goes 10 things I hated about you and I was like oh my god you're right except for people don't like him but he doesn't care about other people not liking him but he does care about cat not like this is actually a pretty common trope like one of our patrons also brought up she's all that and I don't know if you saw that one long time ago if I did it's not aged wonderfully but it is also a spectacular
[SPEAKER_03]: a regular time capsule.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is the same plot.
[SPEAKER_03]: He makes a bet that he can turn any girl at school into the prom queen.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's based on Pigmaley and by George Bernard Shaw, yet another example of this same trope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my fair lady, same plot, which is like I feel like I arrogant man would love to get a woman to fall in love with me for the bid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's an article, a bet, ego, boredom.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are lots and lots of different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is also a thing in cruel intentions, which is not a comedy, but certainly does have this aspect, this story, to the extent that, like, I have had people tell me they think cruel intentions is based on Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which it is not.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's based on, I think, dangerously asons, maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, there's a different classic it's based on.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, this is a known entity.
[SPEAKER_03]: Henry Crawford, you have a naughty boy.
[SPEAKER_03]: who sees a fresh-faced girl who's not taking a shit and he must have her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is where we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So chapter 7 or chapter 25.
[SPEAKER_00]: The two families being the personage and the Bertrams have been hanging out now as much as they used to like in the days of the days of your before Thomas came back, partly because of the return of Henry and William, but also because their Thomas decides that he likes
[SPEAKER_00]: And because he notices that Henry is showing Fanny attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but he doesn't notice this at first.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't happen until their first time hanging out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the story of the time that he noticed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so Jane Austen's turned to the audience and said, okay, so now the Crawford's, and the grants are hanging out a lot with the bird trumps, and that is because Sir Thomas is enjoying the company, but more importantly, he noticed Henry Crawford,
[SPEAKER_03]: has a thing for his niece.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's cut to scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cut to scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they have dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is lovely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone has a great time except Mrs. Norris because how dare they have a lovely dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after dinner, they set up two tables.
[SPEAKER_00]: One for whist.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I have to say like that, twist, twist, and one for speculation, but oh no, Lady Bird from doesn't know which one to play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, she can ask Sir Thomas, which one she's going to enjoy more, which I thought was hilarious and also very me coded.
[SPEAKER_03]: And isn't melcoded to say you should play speculation and secretly it being because she doesn't want you as her partner for Wist.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not melcoded, but Mel would teach you how to play was mel would teach me how to play was, but that is what Sir Thomas does She says that okay, Fanny will teach her how to play speculation because she also doesn't how to play that
[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny's like, I also don't know how to play speculation and Henry swoops in to say, don't worry, I'll sit between you and did you both ladies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's let's take you on a speculative ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my Henry Crawford voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very smooth ladies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Buttery.
[SPEAKER_00]: The narrator refers to the whisked table as the table of prime intellectual state and dignity, which I thought was a sick burn to everybody at the speculation table.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny learns the rules very quickly, but quote, he had yet to inspire it her play, sharpen her averis and harden her heart, averis meaning extreme greed for wealth or material gain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Essentially, she doesn't want to play dirty against her brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just playing, but she's not playing to win.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I mean, she's not into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you have your people who just play games casually and then you have your people who play to win.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like me, you're competitive on the games.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're Henry in this situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm fanning in this situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it depends what game because like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I try really hard to win Katan?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but do I expect to win Katan?
[SPEAKER_00]: Never.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is reminding me of the trivia game at my bachelor at party.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, am I allowed to put you a total blast to ensure?
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was a trivia question that Molly was like really sure she had write about me and then when she got it wrong,
[SPEAKER_03]: She was so sure she was right and the trivia game was wrong that she called Mike or no texted Mike.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did and Mike confirmed that she wasn't back wrong and she's still smarting from this experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's upsetting because it was about doc.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I feel like
[SPEAKER_00]: I pay attention to that boy, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you do, and he loves you, you're like his favorite little lady, but you did get this question wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't, and that means you, your Averis popped right out.
[SPEAKER_00]: My Averis popped right out, and I found so filthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry plays four Lady Bertram, which I think is hilarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: He won't let her see her cards the entire time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's just like, oh, don't worry about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lady Bertram is going to play this card.
[SPEAKER_00]: After the West, West, Mrs. Grant checks on Lady Bertram and Lady Bertram is like, yeah, this is fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very odd game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not allowed to see my cards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry then tells Edmund what happened yesterday after their hunt.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had gotten a little turned around when he left and he couldn't bear to ask directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he just wandered until he stumbled upon a cute little church on a null, which was Thornton Lacy, and Edmund's like, which way did you go, and he's like, it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm positive it was Thornton Lacy, and Edmund's like, did you ask someone that if it was Thornton Lacy, and he said,
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I never inquire, but I told a man, mending a hedge that it was Thornton Lazy and he agreed to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just so indicative of who Henry Cofford is.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I never inquire.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, let's see if I get the voice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to say, ladies, ladies, ladies.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I never inquire.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never never inquire.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund doesn't remember telling him what Thornton Lacey looked like, so he's I'm wondering if Mary Crawford is telling him, like, maybe, oh, so Thornton Lacey listeners for your context is the living.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's that's Edmund's current living because Dr. Grant has taken over the like the better one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Thornton Lacey is like the little or one he's settling for.
[SPEAKER_03]: The one that he's going to be taking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: until Dr. Grant leaves the position.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, which is not anytime soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what I'm getting from this is that Edmund described it to Mary and Mary described it to Henry because Edmund said that he didn't really ever talk about it to Henry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, also very possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's more like he is aware of Edmund's situation because Mary is anxious about Edmund's situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund asks him if he liked it, like what he thought of it, and Henry's like, oh you're so lucky there's so much work to be done around it, which feels like a sick burn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it is a sick burn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like Henry famously loves
[SPEAKER_03]: a fixer upper?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, have you ever seen so my one of my deep hobbies is going on to like Zillow and Trilia and looking at real estate and you just know there is like ambivalence from the real estate Asia when you see a listing that says stuff like dripping with potential.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and you're just like, oh, so what's wrong?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, why is it only potential?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is it not realized potential?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Henry's like, oh, yeah, it has so much potential in Edmund's like
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was, but and he tells Edmund that he has this plan for the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah, you just have to rearrange the entire thing so that the windows of the best rooms face the best view.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he says that the meadows in particular are very pretty.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they don't already belong to the living, he should purchase them with the money that he has.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Edmund's like, listen, I'm not going to do any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The home is going to be comfortable for me, and I hope it will be comfortable for anyone who cares about me, and kind of looks at Mary.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Mary makes herself busy with her game, and she pays too much for Williams' nave, and says that if she doesn't win the game, it won't be for lack of trying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Quote, I am not born to sit still and do nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all in regards to the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And not with regards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly has no bearing on anything else going on in the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they deal a new game, Mary ends up winning that one, but she loses a lot of money because she was just trying to get that name.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Henry says that Edmund must do something to the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: The place deserves it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has so much potential.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want it to feel like it belongs to a gentleman.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he tells him to remove the farm yard, because it's a mansion like house.
[SPEAKER_00]: And without the farm yard, it will be easy to make it feel gentlemen like, but it is capable of so much more.
[SPEAKER_00]: education, taste, modern manners, and good connections.
[SPEAKER_00]: He turns to Fanny and says, you agree with me, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You've seen the house and Fanny has not, and she's like, I'm trying to play this game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will you excuse me?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not of interest to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And William is trying to buy her queen at this moment and Henry's like, no, no, no, no, she will not part with her queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: wait this is annoying right like this is annoying she's trying to play the game and he's like Fanny don't worry I got you and then speaks for her you look so indignant on Fanny's behalf I am because when I was reading this I was like eating it up but now I'm saying it out loud and I hear myself and I'm like that's kind of annoying
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I think he's just kind of like, he is playing this office a different kind of game than Fanny as Fanny's actually trying to play the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which if you're playing a game, then the other person is trying not really playing, you're like, it's your turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so he tells Fanny she's going to win and Edmund says Fanny would rather William won.
[SPEAKER_00]: Quote, more Fanny, not allowed to cheat herself as she wishes because, you know, Fanny would not want the attention of winning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mary says to Edmund that he must engage Henry to help him with Thornton Lacy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thornton Lacy, I'm going to keep saying it like an American, I'm sorry Thornton Lacy, because think about how helpful Henry was at Sutherton, and that makes Fanny look up and glare at Henry because we all remember Sutherton was the ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
[SPEAKER_00]: He catches her eye.
[SPEAKER_00]: She looks away and he goes, listen, I didn't really do that much at Sutherton and then he like quietly says to Fanny, I should be sorry to have my powers of planning judged of by that day at Sutherton.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see things very differently now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do not think of me as I appeared then.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I am feeling like none of that is true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, like I really want it to be, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like I feel like at this point, I know that in the last episode, we got to really, that last episode, the last couple chapters, we got to see his side of things and like see that he does find a lot of positives in Fanny and is interested by her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think he is a changed man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think once he falls in love with Fanny, he'll be a changed man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You think he'll be a changed man if he falls in love with Fanny?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think he'll be changed enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the man who was wooing both Mariah and Juliet at the same time, I don't think is capable of loving a person like Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if he falls in love with Fanny, he will have to have a little bit more softness.
[SPEAKER_03]: He will have to have changed fundamentally because someone who could love Fanny and see what's good about Fanny couldn't possibly be the kind of man who would play so loosely with Mariah's reputation.
[SPEAKER_03]: and with fannies and with fannies and julias and basically everyone except his own fucking sister well actually though he is playing with his sister reputation too yeah his actions bear upon her so he's just not he not he not but right now like do I think this is smooth and like I squealed a little bit when I read it yes do I believe that it is genuine
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's the beauty of reading it is that you can be taken in.
[SPEAKER_03]: We haven't talked much about Jane Austen's writing of this book in like really particular prose, but her writing of Henry is masterful because we can't forget what Fanny thinks of Henry and all of his poor actions.
[SPEAKER_03]: But my God, does she write his prose to be drawing you in like all the time?
[SPEAKER_03]: So like it's hard not to be charged by him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He only is kind of a douche canoe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mrs. Norris then pops in to say, oh, Southern, and that was such a great day, William.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry, you missed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can visit the Rushworths in Brighton when you go back to Portsmouth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you go, I have something I needed to give to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you can bring it for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: William is like, oh, I wouldn't be welcome in such a smart place as that, poor scrubby midship men as I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: sad oh yeah Williams very much like this is a little bit above his station right now and he's so humble yeah he's just sweet herb working naval guy yeah i really like him yeah Sir Thomas thinks that William will have more convenient ways of meaning the rushworths and he says you will find Mr. Rushworth most sincerely disposed to regard all the connections of our family as his own
[SPEAKER_00]: When I first read that, I was like, oh, that's sweet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I read it again, I was like, I feel like I feel like he is just finding creative ways to talk shit about Mr. Rushworth, which I aren't real.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I agree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sir Thomas finishes his wrist game, and comes to watch the speculation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he observes Henry talking in detail about his plans
[SPEAKER_00]: the following winter.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here is where you learn why he's talking so much about this renovation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he wishes to have a place of his own in the area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just for the hunting season, but somewhere he could spend the holidays, somewhere he might find himself continuing improving, perfecting that friendship and intimacy with the Mansfield Park family,
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny doesn't say much to this and doesn't let on how she feels about the things that he's saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he sees Sir Thomas watching them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he turns to Sir Thomas and says the same thing a bit more casually.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sir Thomas says, well, I would love to have you for a neighbor, but not by taking that house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund's going to live there, you know, in his house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Edmunds, like, yeah, I will be living there, but you can definitely visit whenever you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can add stables on your own improved plan, and with all the improvements of your improved plan, and that may occur to you this spring, what improvements say improve again, improve, improve, improve.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like Edmund was taken a little dig with all of the improvements.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do think here Edmund is genuinely like, oh, please, visit any time, but I think he's kind of like teasing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, he's not, he's not going to be outright mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: He likes Henry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Sir Thomas says that a clergyman is most effective when he lives among the people in his parish, which is something we talked about at the beginning, I think, being amongst the common people and living their lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny and Mary are both feeling some type of way about this whole conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny didn't realize how soon Edmund was leaving and hadn't comprehended the fact that he was going to be living somewhere else and she wasn't going to see him every day even though she knew that he was taking a living somewhere else and Mary had only been thinking about the house and the improvements that her brother was describing and now they're talking about the church and him giving sermons and giving sermons more than once a week and she's like
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's so enamored with Edmund for whatever reason and her what her brothers kind of saying and courageingly is like this house isn't too bad actually It's pretty nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty large.
[SPEAKER_03]: It needs improvements for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, okay, I can get behind that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's like, okay, there's like a minor like house.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we squint and if we improve, we can almost make it look like a gentleman's home.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Edmund's like, I don't need all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a clergyman's house.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I'll be fine there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Fanny is sitting here being like all who we're gonna lose Edmund.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna see him every day And I loved my cousin crush and then Mary's like sitting there being like oh shit I mean I got pulled in by that like talk of the house the house sounds nice and Edmund's nice, but god all this like
[SPEAKER_03]: clergyman shit Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why does he have to have a job?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, why does he have to have that job?
[SPEAKER_03]: But jobs generally I wanted to just be a gentleman, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: She wants him to just be landed entry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that she can take on a better match for herself, but still love him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Link.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, it's not it's shallow and it sells a little selfish.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like a little bit bad for Mary because like it is like okay to be ambitious and women don't have a lot of avenues for Emission in this time period, but mostly I'm just kind of like for lack of a better phrase should or get off the pot Mary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, find someone else find someone else who who is more suitable for your economic circumstance or just
[SPEAKER_03]: Take up with the man you love and live a more modest lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't really have an option.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm wearing other right.
[SPEAKER_00]: No She's setting herself up for unhappiness and we mustn't skate over the fact that Henry wants to stay here long-term
[SPEAKER_00]: and was looking for a home for himself to rent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, hmm, hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would he do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: In case he falls in love with Fanny, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it just seems like a lot to do about a flirtation that he was using to park it by himself because it was bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I mean, I think that where my head is at right now is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: that seems fast for him to have fallen in love already.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I've part of why I don't think that he has yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he is trying because like we said last episode, Fanny hasn't necessarily clocked that he's like giving her this kind of attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he is trying to be as obvious as he can.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think there's a difference between letting a house nearby and talking about letting a house nearby.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, he didn't actually let a house know, and this house is actually unavailable because Edmund's already in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he sits now next to her and he's like, you know, I was thinking about finding a place I could stay and she's like, I'm trying to play this card game.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I just learned the rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me focus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so the cards end and everyone's sitting around the fire and Fanny and Amelia are sitting at the card table, chit chatting and Henry is sitting facing them from far away and apparently really just watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: He likes to watch them talk to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sure does.
[SPEAKER_00]: bisexual-looking.
[SPEAKER_00]: William says that tonight is the assembly night at Portsmouth, and Fanny's like, oh, but you don't wish you were at Portsmouth to you, and he says no, because then I want to be with you, sweet dear Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plus, he couldn't get a partner at those dances, because girls turn their noses up at midshipmen.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is sad and this pisses Fanny off because this is her brother we're talking about and she's like, you know what it's just like it's any other hardship that you face like bad weather at sea.
[SPEAKER_00]: One day it will pass.
[SPEAKER_00]: One day you will be a lieutenant and you won't have to worry about being a midshipman anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Williams says, I don't think I'm ever going to get promoted to being a
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't her uncle, or his uncle too, the reason that he got a job in the Navy at all?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like the couple things here, one port Smith is like the hub where the price is live.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's where William returns home.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so these simply it's not like the ball that like Emma what house is going to go to it's like a little bit lower ranking than that but it's like where the the Navy men go right and so it's like particularly insulting I think that William isn't getting dances in favor of the tenants here because like these are not like Mariah and Julia Bertram right rejecting him all and so William is hot.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not really described.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Bertrams are canonically quite hot, which does explain some of why Edmund is getting all this attention.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think you know, Fannie and William have in common that they didn't get fed well as children.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're a little, I would assume he's small like Fannie is, but then again, he's been at see for a while, so he's probably quite a strapping young lad.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that being said, the Navy is, as we've talked about, quite a good vehicle for upward mobility.
[SPEAKER_03]: So with Sir Thomas's word on this and Sir Thomas the Baronet has good word, he can kind of like with that connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: He can kind of make his way up the Navy ranks because a good connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: And having enough good blood in the Navy can put you on a path a more success and like more many and like you can I'm not saying he's going to be captain one worth necessarily, but it's like a good indication like you can make your way up captain one worth's brother is a turret which is lower than a wreck there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, so like the his connections were a little bit lower, but he had enough going on that he could make his way up a little bit and then a lot he made his name and made his fortune, but the Navy is like a good economic vehicle to actually make your way up the ladder, so William is not like left and a large to never make his way up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like he in terms of this isn't about his status, but rather in terms of his hotness, I think he's going to be like Colonel Brandon level of hot.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, so we're putting William as like 30 years younger Colonel Brandon.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly 30 years is too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's younger, yeah, younger Colonel Brandon, like when he gets older, he's going to be rugged but handsome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay, that is helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they are talking about this and they notice how close Sir Thomas is standing to them and they feel awkward so they change the subject.
[SPEAKER_00]: And William asks Fanny if she likes dancing and she says she does but she gets tired pretty easily and he says he would like to go to a ball and dance with her like they used to when they were kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he asks his uncle if Fanny is a good dancer and Fanny is like, oh my god, he's going to say I'm a terrible dancer and he merely says that he hasn't seen Fanny dance and she was a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry says that he has seen Fanny dance and he can answer any questions William has on the subject, but when he sees how to stress Fanny as by this he says let's talk about it another time because there is one person in company who does not like to have misprice spoken of and that is Fanny price.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's one person in government who does not like to have most private spoken of ladies, ladies, ladies, ladies.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, we get a little glimpse into his POV here too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the narrator tells us it's true that he has seen Fanny dance, but he can't remember anything other than the fact that she was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he could, he could have talked about how great a dancer she was and how graceful and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would have been talking straight about of his ass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is why I feel like,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's still a layer of faking it, yes, to everything that he's doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sir Thomas then goes on about the balls in Antiga and William talks about the dances that he's been to at sea, and well, I guess at Port, and then Mrs. Nora starts yelling at Fanny that their coach is there and how dare she still be sitting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mrs. Norris tells Sir Thomas that she settled it that the coachman will come back for him, Edmund and William.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was actually originally Sir Thomas's idea that it would take the ladies first and then come back for him, but because it's Mrs. Norris talking, she's saying it like it's her idea, which I thought was funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Edmund takes Fanny's shawl to put around her shoulders and Henry's swoops and grabs the shawl and puts it around Fanny's shoulders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny is bitter that she has to tell him thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's salty.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't get a little cousin touch there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If she wanted her cousin to touch her shoulders, she really did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the end of that chapter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which brings us to chapter eight or chapter 26.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next morning, Sir Thomas says he would like to throw a dance at their home.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Mrs. Norris is like, wouldn't that be nice if Julia and Mariah were here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, okay, well, they have their pleasures at Brighton.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the stance would be for their cousins.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just because some members of the family aren't here doesn't mean that we can't all have fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Mrs. Norris is like, for the first time in her life, perhaps, shocked into silence.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, speechless.
[SPEAKER_00]: that this man wants to throw a ball for Fanny Price and William Price.
[SPEAKER_00]: The price is, yeah, crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's also shocked that he didn't consult her first and that he's just saying this, but she decides that it's okay because she's going to do all of the work of planning it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund is happy that his father is showing such kindness to William and Fanny, and Lady Bertram is assured that the dance will not give her any trouble and she says, don't worry, I'm not worried.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mrs. Norris has suggestions about the ball, what rooms to use, what day it should be, but Sir Thomas has taken care of everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to think that he's just been like sitting up all night being like, okay, guest list.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, so Lady Bertrims obviously passing out, like very early in the evening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: She stays asleep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pug curled up like right by her.
[SPEAKER_03]: The best thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so technically, in the Regents era, it's not necessarily true that they would be sharing a bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in my head, can it?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to bring a entertainer in my head, can it?
[SPEAKER_03]: And the Bartrims are sharing a bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Lady Bertram is lying down in the bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's got lovely face mask on and isn't like a night down ball gown with pug curled up on her chest.
[SPEAKER_03]: and a bonnet, and she has a bonnet, Pug is a bonnet, Pug also has this lead mask, Mr. wobbles, and then Sir Thomas is up by candlelight, like feverishly like analog Pinterest boarding, a ball.
[SPEAKER_03]: analog Pinterest for it and a lot of Pinterest for this ball and we'll talk about in this study questions but really good question as to why.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, just planting this seed.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't considered the why of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've decided he's decided that the ball will be the 20 second because William is leaving on the 23rd and Mrs. Norris is like I was just I was going to say that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Invitations are sent all the young ladies in the land are so excited when they go to bed that night all the young ladies except Danny because Fanny doesn't know what to wear been their girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she has one piece of jewelry, an amber cross that William gave her, but William could not afford to get a chain with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she has when she's worn it, she's worn it with a ribbon and she isn't sure that that's going to be fancy enough for this ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's distressed because she wants, William is going to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: She wants to make sure that she wears the piece of jewelry he gave her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she's just, this is too much pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ball has been given for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lady Bertram, throughout all of the preparations, this is just sitting on the couch and she's like, yeah, this isn't giving me any trouble as everyone's just like running around around her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund is preoccupied.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's not as worried about this because he's got two big events coming up in life that will really The book says fix his fate.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got ordination and Mattrimony one of those seems a little bit more stiff and stone than the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it sure does He on the 23rd is going to Peterborough with a friend to get ordained over Christmas So that's set as to the wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't know how she feels
[SPEAKER_00]: At times, he's certain she loves him, but then they have one of their spats.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're little lovers quarrels that get in the way of their lover's vows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, throw back.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just tied five to cross the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: We sure did.
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks about her acknowledged disinclination for privacy and retirement, her decided preference of a London life, and he is sure that she will reject him.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the question is whether she loves him enough to overcome these needs first so let's take a step back for a second This is this is somewhat a new Jane Austen situation for us.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I don't know that we've had the object of our leading ladies affection I don't know if we've been in his perspective
[SPEAKER_03]: actively contemplating, proposing to another woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right now Edmund is in a spot where he is love enough with Mary that he would like to take his orders and then propose.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's holding him back here?
[SPEAKER_00]: That Mary kind of hates everything he stands for.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lack of certainty of that whether or not she looks at.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's first of all very tough look for
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, no, it's not great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I'd be honest, like fanny's love for Edmund has become such background noise.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like interesting expand on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the beginning, I was obviously shipping it very heavily as you were.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then as time went on, it became clear that he was not interested in her in that way, and it started to just feel sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I lost hope for her, and now that there's so much else going on and so many other love stories to follow, the Crawford's really you have Mary in the apple of Edmund's eye, and you have Henry now with his sights set on Fanny.
[SPEAKER_03]: it does kind of put the unrequited love funny holds for Edmund Bertram in the backseat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and she's also been experiencing more life since the beginning of this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she has been raised in everyone's opinion in the last couple of chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's in a better place and she isn't so far alone about it all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's not spending all of her time just like moping around about how Edmund doesn't love her and he's the only person who has ever showed her any fucking kindness right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's pretty happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there's like there is the knowledge that she will always love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, but like it is not the thing that I'm paying attention to any more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Mary has decided to go to London for an extended period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her friend has invited her and she is excited about this and the fact that she is so excited about this makes him think she will say no to him when he proposes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then later on after the initial excitement wears off he overhears her telling Mrs Grant that she's going to
[SPEAKER_00]: leaving them all behind and like will it be worth it to leave the company that I have here for the company there and like I already I'm thinking about coming home to Mansfield and he's like okay maybe she's a yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund feels like a ballroom isn't the best place to talk about serious feelings so he's like not really it's for the sexy hand touching.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's ready for the sexy hand touching.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like I'm gonna make sure that I engage her for the first two dances but then
[SPEAKER_00]: The most relatable Edmund Bertrims been the whole book, honestly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the day before the ball, and Fanny still has not decided what to wear, so she goes to the personage to get advice from Mrs. Grant and Mary Notford.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund and William are out, so she assumes Henry will be too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping that they were going to run into him, but he was not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you shipping?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna refuse to answer that at this time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're gonna get to the end of the chapters.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am gonna ask you, if you are team, fanry or team, fan-man, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fanry, fan-man, is that the correct?
[SPEAKER_03]: Ednie?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it would be, otherwise it would be honey and eddie.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it has to be fanry and fan-man, fan-man gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hanny and Fanny and Fandvin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she is on her way over and she runs into Mary, who had actually been on her way to come see Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at first Mary's like, oh, man, I really wanted to get this walk in and Fanny's like, well, listen, here's why I've come.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want your advice on this, but we could talk about it while we walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you really want to walk in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mary is like, oh wait, fashion chart, are you kidding?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, for us, come upstairs, so they go in and do a fashion chart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they don't do a fashion chart, but they discuss all of the options and decide on address.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then Mary asks about jewelry and this is the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will she wear the cross and Fanny says, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Mary presents a box of gold chains from which Fanny is free to choose what she wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is actually, she had been intending to bring it to Fanny just now of her own volition without being told that Fanny needed a necklace interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny is mortified by being presented with a gift like this, and Mary's like, please, I have too many, I never wear these.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after much back and forth, Fanny agrees to pick a necklace and she picks the one that Mary kind of keeps pushing forward because she thinks that's probably the one that Mary will miss the least since she's trying the hardest to get rid of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny would rather be obliged to someone else because this is her sworn enemy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also her friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I think Mary Crawford and Vinnie really do define friend of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Jane Fairfax and Emma Woodhouse have a friend of me thinking about let's be real very sexually charged Yeah, I was gonna say that's more of an enemy's to lovers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, arrivals to lovers truly That's a heated rivalry.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a heated rivalry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, huh
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't go down the top.
[SPEAKER_03]: We really, we truly will be here till midnight.
[SPEAKER_03]: But this friendship is so fraught because it truly is in the most traditional sense, a love triangle.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a man between it to have them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Fanny feels guilty for feeling this way because she's like, okay, Mary was literally going to bring me these necklaces like a real friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: It says in the book, quote, like a real friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she says, okay, you know what.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very nice gesture whenever I wear this necklace I will think of you and Mary says you should think of my brother Oh, because he got it for me and when you think of him you can think of me because we're related and Panys like take it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want it and Mary is like come on like what do you think Henry is going to think that you stole it from me?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I need to read this quote.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that part of why Fannie wants to want her to take it back is because she cannot imagine parting with a gift from her brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this quote, I must read.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Mary has said, what do you think he's going to think you stole it from me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you imagining he would be too much flattered by seeing round your lovely throat and ornament, which his money purchased three years ago, before he knew there was such a throat in the world, or perhaps looking archely, you suspect a confederacy between us, and that what I am doing now is with his knowledge and at his desire.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if it is, hmm, spicy, but also like weird because Mary was against him trying to woo Fanny at first and then was like, okay, whatever do what you want, interesting, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, very interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: She definitely did this on purpose because she kept pushing it forward, but I don't think that Henry
[SPEAKER_00]: told, oh my god, I don't think the Henry told her to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that she's trying to make Henry think that Fanny has a crush on him back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we'll get into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so anyway, Mary says that Henry is always giving her stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: This particular necklace has no particular value to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry won't remember giving it to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to miss this necklace
[SPEAKER_00]: She has noticed that Henry has been more attentive to her and she clocks that he is treating her, how he treated her cousins.
[SPEAKER_00]: She suspects that he wants to cheat her of her tranquility and she thinks he knows about the necklace.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is on to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Danny Price, no slouch, she's no slouch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she thinks that he knows about the necklace because, quote, Ms. Crawford, complacent as a sister, was careless as a woman and a friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's like, this too faced, you know, if someone said that about me, I think I'd curl up into a ball and die, not a girls girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, harsh.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, get no one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm saying is that's that's the insult.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's saying she's not a girl girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, she would do whatever her brother tells her to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she has without a parent fuck about her friends or any women.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yikes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway that's the end of that chapter.
[SPEAKER_03]: It sure is which brings us to the patron study questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got a light list for this time, but listeners, if you would like to ask questions about the chapters and have us answer them on the air, you can become a patron at the $15 tier and Molly will post a Google Doc.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can submit your questions and we will answer them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Avie asks, the amber cross that William gives to Fanny is likely modeled on a topaz cross that Jane Austen's own sailor brother Charles bought for her in Cassandra.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why did Austen put it in there?
[SPEAKER_03]: And knowing this, does it give any extra significance to Mary's gift of the chain?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I think this is getting at the Fanny would never give away a gift from her brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was precious to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she can't comprehend Mary giving away a chain that her brother gave her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think we have talked, we talked last time about how the relationship with Liam is so imbued with Jane Austen's actual affection for her brother.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there is something sacred about the little cross from William for her.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a totem of like her true self and her true love.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is also a cross and we are, you know, still living in the soup of this Christian morality that's like part of this book.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it carries a lot of symbolism and Mary putting it on this chain from Henry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, it's kind of a little, it's a little blasphemous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say it tarnishes the purity of the gift.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, because they give to something so pure.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's literally Christian.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, it's a pure love that exists between Fanny and her brother unlike any other thing in her life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is a little disharmonious with the Crawfords and their scheming, even if such scheming comes with any sort of genuine affections, which is not confirmed or denied.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's weird is that Marion Henry do, they also are like an interesting model of siblinghood, because they do love each other and they like the warrior of the William vanionation.
[SPEAKER_00]: exactly like they do love each other but they are chaotic evil.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah they are their chaos and immorality to Fanny and their awful, awful good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fanny and William have been held on to like a profound affection for each other over the course of seven years where one of them has been at sea the whole time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah and
[SPEAKER_03]: like take these beautiful snippets together in each other's lives as like moments to like really share the love and affection between them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whereas Henry and Mary fit in and out of each other's lives kind of sniping at each other, but there's a way in which they truly know each other and care for each other, but they're just different people.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is interesting that it's Mary's gift from Henry that goes with Fanny's gift from William.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's the only patron study question we have for these chapters, so we're going to move on to the back of study questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is Sir Thomas's interest in the ball and Henry?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so in the beginning of the chapters, we learn that Sir Thomas has clocked this whole thing, but he's seen things beginning to grow in the lasagna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and he is no Mrs Bennett.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what it says specifically, it gave the idea of he's no Mrs Bennett, like he's not going to try to get phanny married off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me just read it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And though infinitely above scheming or contriving for any of the most advantageous matrimonial establishment that could be among the apparent possibilities of anyone most year to him and disdaining even as a littleness, the being quick cited on such points, some rushing into it, he could not avoid perceiving in a grand and careless way that Mr. Crawford was somewhat distinguishing his niece.
[SPEAKER_00]: nor perhaps refrain though unconsciously from giving a more willing a sent to invitations on that account.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's not trying to marry her offer rush her into anything, but I think he for whatever reason that we've talked about a lot, him suddenly thinking of Fania's his own daughter basically like he's like, oh, yes, my niece.
[SPEAKER_00]: he is seeing this affection and I think thinking, well, that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That must be a good thing because every young lady wants to be corded by a young man and he thinks that it would make funny happy to spend more time with him perhaps and is trying to orchestrate that and what would be the other dynamic of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would Fanny be happy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny would be happy because
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, connected to it, connected to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, to raise her status, he's rich.
[SPEAKER_03]: Economics of dating in Jane Austen, Graham the sound effect.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We when Fanny first came to the Bertram household, her prospects for an advantageous match weren't like an easing.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's not wealthy and she has very few connections outside of the Bertram plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is a pretty good fish to spear.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's real rich.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's rich.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's well connected.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a property owner.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like well bred like in a certain way.
[SPEAKER_03]: In a certain way.
[SPEAKER_03]: In a certain way.
[SPEAKER_03]: On paper, Henry Crawford is kind of like a jackpot for a woman like fanny.
[SPEAKER_03]: A jackpot a woman like fanny only gets if he falls in love with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sir Thomas is like, yeah, let's let's give them the right circumstances.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's like I can't believe her luck that like a rich guy wants her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sucks to be a woman in this time period.
[SPEAKER_03]: It sucks to be a woman in this time period.
[SPEAKER_03]: It sucks more to be a poor woman in this time period.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it sucks the most to be a fanning price.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, being fanny price is rough.
[SPEAKER_03]: Being fanny price is a punishment unto itself in this boy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: How does Henry's discussion of Edmund's estate teaches about the character's development through the story?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think primarily we learn about Edmund and Mary through that conversation, because Henry stays liking to do physical labor, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: He likes to, he likes to land to get more interior design.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interior design is my passion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh my god, gravity design is my passion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So with regard to Edmund and Mary, I liked Mary's arc here, I mean, I didn't like Mary's arc here, but like she is listening to Henry talk about how wonderful the house could be with all its potential and how it's like mansion like and it could be a house of a man of good breeding and intelligence and education and manners.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, those are all the things I want and I almost feel like Henry is saying that stuff for her benefit rather than for Edmund's benefit and Edmund doubles down and is like, this will be enough for me and I hope it will be enough for anyone who cares about me Mary Crawford and Mary Crawford is like, it really won't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think it's also just it's revealing that this is a part of Henry's personality to do the likes this stuff and the way he immediately shifts to be like that's not me anymore for Fanny oh my god yeah, but it like it's so obviously is still him yep, but
[SPEAKER_00]: how I read that section was like, I didn't do a good job with my interior design at Southern.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that wasn't really indicative of how I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you won't think of me like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what he is trying to say is don't think of me like the guy who's running off with your engaged cousin.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is absolutely what he's trying to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's trying to say
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember, they all just overlooked her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, yeah, left her there, left her there on the ha ha, so he could be debauchers with her engaged cousin, and every time someone brings it to the fucking southern state, Henry Crawford is reminded that she saw him do something wildly improper, and he's trying to be like, listen, I've changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've changed, but also, like, have you changed enough to not ditch Fanny on the ha ha?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the most important question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to check in with our boy Edmund Bert from here for a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our faith character, the apple of each of our eyes,
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm kidding!
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm kidding!
[SPEAKER_03]: So I actually do want to take a moment for Edmund as a character because we get Edmund's internal model log for a second here, which we rarely get.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is an interesting piece of the book, like, what's fresh here?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's new?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do we learn?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is Jane Austen teaching us in this section?
[SPEAKER_00]: That he has plans to propose.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: That he doubts that he will be accepted.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that he is not willing to change for this woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think we are already new that, but we heard it in his own head.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also, I think, I, someone can correct me if I'm wrong here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that from the books we've read, this is the first time we have gotten, like, a man considering a potential proposal in the future.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I guess we keep getting the proposals sprung on us from men, from men, yeah, to women or women thinking about potential proposals upcoming.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Edmund here is also showing us the economics of dating in Jane Austen Graham the sound effect from the perspective of a man and when he's having a problem with this, where he is a second
[SPEAKER_03]: a comfortable life ahead of him, but not a luxurious one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he knows he wouldn't be her first choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is hindering him from being with the woman he loves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: For whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess she's really hot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, be honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get why her Edmund likes her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's dangerous.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's sexy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Funny and clunky.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have all overlooked serious red flags when we are really into someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wouldn't be into Mary Crawford, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just actually, I would be in about the Crawfords, like you could buy sexual buffet if you were.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really about our bisexual buffet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't hate them, but it's really hard to, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do wonder why he has stayed in it this long when she so clearly wants to change him at a fundamental level, but that's why we got to hear his side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to just like really quickly stretch because I'm about to defend Edmund Bertram.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think like he's an extremely loyal person.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's shown his interest in her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's shown his interest in him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He loves her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is part of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's also, I mean, it's a reputation thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be pretty tough at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They've pretty obviously formed an attachment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that like he clearly adores her and he is planning to try to make her his wife and he's a loyal man.
[SPEAKER_03]: So even if she wants to change stuff about him, he's a loyal both through the church and to her.
[SPEAKER_03]: The real question is which one of those loyalties will win out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've always assumed it would be the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Gali, Gali J. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, uh, what do you think the ball will uncover and what's its place at this point in the book?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why, well, I do know why.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm most excited for Henry to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny wearing the necklace.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, this man has a chokehold on you.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it's going to be really fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: You now understand why Mariah Bertram lost her fucking engaged mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, like it's, he is charm is very hard to resist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just think that's going to be, he's going to ask her to dance.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to dance.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to say something in his voice about her necklace and how that my necklace, that chain necklace, necklace, necklace, yeah, and I think it's here in the book because this is where that fan he's peeking now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's time to see her actually get to dance
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's time and honestly like I think like this is technically kind of a debut for her because she's not out in society.
[SPEAKER_00]: She isn't, but there was a dance.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's been to a ball already.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has been to one ball, but she didn't dance at the ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did she?
[SPEAKER_00]: She danced with Edmund.
[SPEAKER_03]: She did dance with that mend and it would over tuck her life, but this is an inch dance with a Tommy boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, but this ball is being thrown for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that and for William.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and everyone this feels like a day.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is also like Sir Thomas is like hosting a ball rather than just like a little dance party.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Last question before the stand by is what is Mary's intent in giving fanning her cross.
[SPEAKER_03]: We already kind of talked about this, but you want to float any other theories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think one theory is what I said, which is that she wants Henry to think that Fanny likes him back and like specifically wanted that chain, but there was also the possibility that Henry finnagled this and was like, give Fanny my chain, or she could just want to stir the pot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh, and I'll add this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Team Hanny or Team Fanmond.
[SPEAKER_03]: Currently, yeah, a handy team handy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we don't have to explain that right now, but I'm just taking your temperature.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Funny is quote.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were a lot of funny moments in the set of chapters, but I think we've got to go with admin
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I never inquire, but I told a man, mending a hedge that it was Thornton Lacey, and he agreed to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was Henry, but yes, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who did I say was, Edmund?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_03]: Edmund would never be.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's me talking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Edmund would never.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will also give one shout-up before we move to questions moving forward.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is mention that at the West Table, Mrs. Norris and Dr. Grant are getting into it together and like fighting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it, as yet, Sir Thomas had seen nothing to her a Mark and Mr. Crawford's behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when the West Table broke up at the end of the second rubber and leaving Dr. Grant and Mrs. Norris to dispute over their last play, he became a look
[SPEAKER_00]: while we're on the card game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry is talking about, oh, it's the air of a gentleman's residence, bubble, blah, and then in parentheses, let me see Mary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lady Bertram Bidza doesn't for that queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it doesn't is more than it is worth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lady Bertram does not fit it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: She will have nothing to say to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go on, go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then just moving on with his conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: God bless.
[SPEAKER_00]: Questions moving forward?
[SPEAKER_00]: What will happen at the ball?
[SPEAKER_00]: Will Fanny and Henry dance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Will Fanny and Edmund dance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Will Edmund and Mary dance?
[SPEAKER_00]: Will Edmund propose?
[SPEAKER_00]: What will happen with a necklace?
[SPEAKER_00]: So much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who wins the chapters?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling like on the one hand, I want to give it to Fanny because she really was the star of these chapters.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, I want to give it to Mary for being a trouble maker.
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the third hand, I want to give it to William because I love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the fourth hand, I want to give it to Sir Thomas for being very perceptive here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who would you give it to?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would personally give it to Sir Thomas for Pinterest boarding and bed.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or I would give it to probably William.
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't given Sir Thomas a win yet and he planned a ball for Fanny, that end for William, which I think is pretty awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give him a lot of points.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Sir Thomas wins these chapters.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, listeners, that concludes this episode of Pot and Pregidas.
[SPEAKER_03]: For next time, you can be reading the X2 chapters of Vansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_03]: Chapter 9 and 10, a volume the second, or if you're in a non-volume with book chapters 27 and 28, Molly, are you ready to go to the ball?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait!
[SPEAKER_03]: Well then, until next time, stay proper.
[SPEAKER_03]: And play a game of twist, twist, or speculation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Potten Prejudice is edited by Molly Birdick and audio produced by Graham Cook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our show art is designed by Torrance Brown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our show is transcribed by speech docs, podcast transcription.
[SPEAKER_00]: For transcripts and to learn more about our team, check out our website at pottenprejudice.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Stay proper!