Mansfield Park Volume 3 Chapter 6
Fanny is going on a trip! Edmund has plans to go to London and propose to Mary, William returns to Mansfield, and Sir Thomas offers to send Fanny back to Portsmouth with him. Fanny hopes to get over Edmund while she’s gone…good luck, girl.
Topics discussed include Edmund’s pride spinoff, Mary’s daddy issues, the sexiest instrument of all time (the harp), whether Fanny is the type of person to adopt her man’s opinions, Sir Thomas’s real reasons for sending Fanny to Portsmouth, and Fanny’s relationship with her family.
Patron Study Questions come from Avi and Angelika. Topics discussed include Fanny’s relationship to her mother and what it will be like for her at Portsmouth, and whether Edmund is willfully misunderstanding Fanny’s emotions.
Becca's Study Questions: Topics discussed include how Fanny’s status will shift at Portsmouth, why Jane Austen is sending her there, why Sir Thomas sucks, the parallels between Edmund/Mary and Fanny/Henry, and what Portsmouth itself will be like.
Funniest Quote: "It had, in fact, occurred to her, that though taken to Portsmouth for nothing, it would be hardly possible for her to avoid paying her own expenses back again. So her poor dear sister Price was left to all the disappointment of her missing such an opportunity, and another twenty years’ absence, perhaps, begun."
Questions moving forward: What will happen in Portsmouth? What will happen if/when Edmund goes to London?
Who wins the chapters? Fanny!!!
Glossary of Terms and Phrases:
Vicissitude (n): the quality or state of being changeable
Glossary of People, Places, and Things: Avatar: The Last Airbender, JASNA New York Metro
Next Episode: Mansfield Park Volume III Chapter 7 or Chapter 38
Our show art was created by Torrence Browne, and our audio is produced by Graham Cook. For bios and transcripts, check out our website at podandprejudice.com. Pod and Prejudice is transcribed by speechdocs.com. To support the show, check out our Patreon! Check out our merch at https://podandprejudice.dashery.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you are now privy to my cabbages yeah my cabbages wait we're really quickly again before we go no progress has been made well as I texted you no progress has been made but that is that is a really really cool, cool place to end things
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, where did I text you, you miscalculated?
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Zuko more than I fear you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a really good impression of her.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my favorite lines from this series and I will not apologize for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The boiling rock episode of Avatar The Last Airbender is potentially my favorite episode of the whole show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where I ended.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that where they are escaping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really rock spoilers for Avatar The Last Air Bender.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Molly and I have been love texting about Zuko since yeah, that whole stretch of episodes where Zuko joins their crew is like, incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told you all bangers here on out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So speaking of bad boys with potential redemption arcs, this is Becca.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Molly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here to talk about Jane Austin.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here specifically to talk about Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, if you're new here, I back have read many Jane Austin novels through my lifetime.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Molly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm reading all of her works for the first time through this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear Molly read through Pride and Pregidas, since in sensibility, Emma or Persuasion for the first time, you can listen to seasons 1, 2, 3, or 4 of this podcast respectively.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is not what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: today.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, today we are talking about volume three, chapter six of Mansfield Park or if your book is not broken up into volumes that is chapter 37.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we are doing one chapter bits for this next little bit guys because you know things are happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but could give me the option after our last record session.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was like the next two chapters kind of go together, but
[SPEAKER_01]: the first one is short with a lot happening and the next one is long with a lot have with a lot happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want me to combine them and I was like, let's just I actually think it's good that we get the opportunity to really luxuriate in this twist in the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because Molly is Fannie going to London.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, she's not going to London, but she is going somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's somewhere is Sportsmith, sportsmith, we're going to ports.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not see that one coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that was what we would call a curveball from Jane Austen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so much like basically this chapter can be described as Everyone's gone William comes to visit and made a side that Fannie is going to leave with William.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is just wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot to unpack with this, but yeah, we are now with what 37 chapters into this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have only left Mansfield Park for one day trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow to Southern.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's why they called it Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jane Austen knew what she was doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The good chunk of this book takes place at Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they do say that Jane Austen titles her books after the main problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, Pride and Prejudice is the main problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sensensitability, prestige and persuasion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Emma because it's like, Emma's the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Emma's the problem persuasion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, is the conflict and in this, it's Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you said it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we go into talking about Fanny's 4A, somewhere else in this book, really quickly to recap last week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll call it the parade of people begging Fanny to accept Henry's proposal.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had Edmund saying basically, at this point, Fanny, you've proven your modesty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you weren't keen on him, but it's time to just give into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we had
[SPEAKER_00]: mix of toxicity, manipulation, and affection all in one interaction, leaving basically fanny alone at Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Crawford's are gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund's going to leave soon, so it would just be fanny, uh, Sir Thomas, Lady Bertram and Mrs. Morris, um, except, except this chapter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now that Henry's gone, Sir Thomas has pinned his hopes on Fanny feeling his absence.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, she's going to miss him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then she'll know she loves him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, but I can't tell if she misses him because she's so doesn't seem like she misses him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he basically says like, she was so of consequence for this part pissed me off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for like a brief moment, she must be
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the thing, it's not that she's going to miss him, it's that she's going to miss being important to somebody, you know, in fact that he, he hopes her sinking back into nothingness will make her regret saying no to him and so he consults Edmund his Fanny, uh, fortune teller Fanny whisper, uh, Edmund Bertram Fanny whisper
[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund cannot find any sign that if Annie regrets her decision, and he's actually surprised that his father would think that it could, like, that she would regret it in such a short period of time, because he knows that Fanny takes a longer time to process her emotions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's actually more surprised that Fanny doesn't seem to miss Mary because he's like, but they were such good friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he knows women.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Fanny whisperer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he is the Fanny whisperer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this passage because Sir Thomas is walking around being like, I wonder why Fanny's not missing Henry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Enman's walking around being like, I wonder why Fanny's not missing Mary.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Fanny's walking around being like, Thank God they're both gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's actually Mary that's her main source of anxiety these days, because it seems more certain now than ever, that she and Edmina are done deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's feeling very much like we're going to have a proposal soon, not yet with the sound effect Graham we got a hold off, but these two have reconciled a lot of their issues and by reconciled a lot of their issues, I mean stopped talking about their issues right it's just that he was like, oh, she's so pretty.
[SPEAKER_01]: and his love for her overshadowed all of the negative things that he had thought about her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as he always does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they have hand-in-hand back and forth for like a year at this point almost, and they have been aware that they have this like fundamental and compatibility.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund's going to be a rector.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't want to be with the director.
[SPEAKER_00]: She wants to be with someone more wealthy and landed gentryish.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows she's not like the ideal pastor's wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are getting to a point where they just don't care because they're too entwined with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a tragedy in Fanny's view.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's totally not because she's jealous.
[SPEAKER_01]: not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not jealous.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: She believes that her sorrow is just because he is going to compromise on his beliefs.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much do you think it's one and how much do you think it's the other?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, well, uh, the thing is, if you tell yourself something enough, it starts to be true, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, all her days, with as long as Mary Crawford has been there, she's been like, but Edmund is going to stoop like he's not going to uphold his high moral ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not like she's telling herself that to make her not focus on her love for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think earnestly that both feelings are there totally because she's always been like she cares about him and she and he connect on their high moral values.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you remember how she felt when he said he was going to do the play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was devastated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and part because she was fucking disappointed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, obviously she was jealous that Mary Crawford and him would spend time together, but part of the reason she's jealous is because he's changing from the person that she loves to be with another man woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: If only if only.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, if Edmund Bertram were changing to be with a man, this is really a very different book and I think I would like Edmund to weigh better.
[SPEAKER_01]: He would still be a deeply flawed character.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would be.
[SPEAKER_01]: But actually, I kind of want to write that fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, where the reason that he's changing and he becomes kind of flicked with the church is because it wouldn't accept him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, happy pride.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy pride, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a beautiful idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so he's supposed to be going to town in two weeks and Fanny feels certain that when he goes, he will propose and Mary will say yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we go on, it's not just Edmund who's kind of changing and warping, warping here because Mary, despite the fact that Fanny says Mary can't change.
[SPEAKER_00]: She has stopped trumpeting about him not being in the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why has she stopped?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she loves him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I do agree that this is probably going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she loves him enough to forsake this like flawed thing that she was really obsessed with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last time Fanny and Mary spoke, Mary was still Mary, even though they'd had like their cute little female friendship moment, she was still to Fanny, quote, a mind, let us stray and bewildered and without any self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Fanny thinks that she doesn't deserve Edmund, except for the fact that she's in love with him, but she thinks that the only thing that the two of them have in common is that they're in love with each other, which is that they want to fuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that has kind of been proven by every conversation they've ever had.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're starting to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, it's a really great question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there's anything there other than like raw sexual attraction between the two of them?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know because we don't get to see a lot of their conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's clearly something there on Maryside that we're like parsing out through this book of like Edmund being a good man compared to other men she's been around, like in her life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like her guardian is a bad dude, like she was raised by a bad man and she's used to accepting a certain level of like rakeishness from a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: and Edmund is like, for all we shit on him like a good man TM, he would be like devoted as a husband, he has principles ostensibly, like he wants to be married to like one woman and treat her nicely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's he's a nice guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think there is something with Mary where clearly that is something she is craving because she wants Edmund who has no other discernible qualities other than being really hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is supposed to be really hot, but big tea is also supposed to be really hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's more of a rake.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is and he's like a useless party animal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's also, yeah, yeah, well, yes, probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: To us.
[SPEAKER_00]: To us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's on Mary's side.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of get it from Mary's perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's there other than thinking she's hot?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean she's very charismatic.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was going to say is like she's probably intellectually stimulating.
[SPEAKER_00]: She can really rock a heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: She can rock a harp and, you know, what is better than an accomplished lady?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a sexy woman with a harp.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to this day, who, who among is can resist?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to say, I recently attended the Jane Austen Association of North America, New York Metro Regional Meeting, and there was a lecture.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alexa, which dear listeners, I did have to dissociate for most of my texted back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, there's so many spoilers in this lecture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just blacking out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just stared at my feet and I was with Sequoia and she was like, during parts that she thought were spoilers.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was just like whispering my ear and like say other stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, anyway, I did a good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I did a good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I present.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: The
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of evolution through literature and how she shows up in Jane Austen and one such way is the return of the harp in many works and particularly they focused on Mary Crawford and Harp and they talked about how you sit with the harp between your legs.
[SPEAKER_01]: and you hold it like a big, big, big, bad harp and you're stroking it with your fingers and it's a very sexual motion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Edmund just like can't get the picture of her stroking his harp out of his head and he's just about to up and marry her over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was pretty awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so Fanny thinks that the hope of Mary improving is desperate and hopeless.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like there's no way she will ever change especially because if Edmund's influence hasn't done anything yet, like she's still the same, then it's not going to do anything in marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to read a paragraph about Mary adopting Edmund's opinions as her own.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't 100% sure what it's trying to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Experience might have hoped more for any young people, so circumstance.
[SPEAKER_01]: And impartiality would not have denied to Ms. Crawford's nature that participation of the general nature of women, which would lead her to adopt the opinions of the man she loved and respected as her own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think what you saying is that generally,
[SPEAKER_00]: women do adopt the opinions of their men, but Mary Crawford's not such a woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and Fanny is is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But is she?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's let's ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's an interesting question and I think an important one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is she the type of person to take on the morals and
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she happens to have latched on to a man who has the same morals and opinions as her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now that he's changing, she's feeling the loss of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will stick a pin in that because I think there's so much to unpack with that question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like remind me, I think we're going to have to just talk about it again more further into the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also think that it's just interesting for lack of a better word to think about whether Jane Austen believes that that's a good quality or bad quality.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's extremely important to think about whether Jane Austen thinks this is a good quality or a bad quality.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually think this is the heart of the book, but I'm not ready to get there with the plot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot to discuss, leading up to it, but the ways in which people's morals are formed, what inherently makes someone good, and what morals are worth having and discovering on your own,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a big soup that we're going to get to later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, soup.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So moving on, Sir Thomas realizes that the reason that Fanny isn't depressed about Henry is because William is coming to town.
[SPEAKER_00]: The return of our boy!
[SPEAKER_00]: He's back.
[SPEAKER_01]: He got 10 days leave to come and visit.
[SPEAKER_01]: we needed one man to root for in this book yeah he's the one he's the guy William price what a little gem of a man i love him oh so uh they think they being certain is things that fan he wants to see William's lieutenant's uniform but he's not allowed to wear it when he's not on duty so admin is like oh man by the time fan he sees it it will have become a badge of disgrace because she won't get to see it for
[SPEAKER_01]: So seeing his lieutenant's uniform will actually be a sad thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sir Thomas is like, wait a minute, what if to get Fannie to be able to see the uniform?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he loves to plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sir Thomas is a yentiskeemer.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's white on his literally is.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what if we send Fannie to Portsmouth with William?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because
[SPEAKER_01]: his idea being that she'll see how good she had in that man's field.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay, this is very important because what he says is, you know, she hasn't connected with her family in a while and she would love to see William off to see him and his left tenant uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what he says to Edmund.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and Edmund's like, that's a great idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: and because Edmund's fucking stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is dumb, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so fucking stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also our poll, majority of people said the Edmund is stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, yeah, we did that poll.
[SPEAKER_00]: If our listeners remember from last time that was whether Fannie has a great poker face or Edmund is just stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the vast majority said Edmund is just stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's probably both.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fanny does play her cards close to her chest, but Edmund Dumb.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund's Edmund Dumb.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's her Thomas is actually thinking is what?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's thinking, she's going to go home with all of her siblings in her squaller and be like, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need a rich husband.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: that is what's her promise is thinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can, we can dive right in now, or I can save this for the study question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear once again, I will bring up the fact that Surtama's and Mrs. Norris at their core have this nagging sense that Benny's presence at
[SPEAKER_00]: and when she disobeyed him, he puts over her the looming thread of basically saying, you are not holding up your end of the bargain, your gratitude, and your obedience, and your duty to make the best match I can possibly get for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, I don't need to hold up my end of the
[SPEAKER_00]: anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean he's make, he says I only want a sender if she wants to go and you know it's just a social, really miss, Henry and her life at Mansfield, but this is a threat.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my brain, this is a threat to Fanny, this is what you will have if you don't accept this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I see this actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't want to end up back here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have given you the gentry life in England.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've paid for everything for you and your brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've fed you and I've closed you and I've put a roof over your head and you've got you're not being grateful for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if you don't have it anymore?
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow and I'm trying to think how effective this will be on Fanny because I think she's so well we'll get into it but the way Fanny reacts to this is not what I'm saying here.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, she's happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, of course she is because she wants to see her family and I think that she is so prone to gratitude and to caring about people that she is just going to be happy to see her family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, and also we've she's in like horrible Straits of Mansfield Park right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's heartbroken.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's being pressured into a marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't want to be in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And reminder that when she came to Mansfield Park, we had a long conversation about whether or not it was the right place for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she was taken away from her mother and her siblings and her father and like her world and placed somewhere where she was told over and over again, you are less.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you are less than the people that around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the first time she's getting sent back to that place and there is something in her that's saying, okay, it's time to be with my, my immediate family again.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to be in my home again.
[SPEAKER_00]: The place where I actually belong.
[SPEAKER_00]: The place where I belong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, honestly, I don't see a world in which Fanny doesn't end up back there permanently.
[SPEAKER_01]: That my opinion is that she would choose that over marrying Henry Crawford, just putting that on the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I agree that it feels like a threat.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we're going to keep moving, but I wanted to flag that because there will be people who defend Sir Thomas, despite his other shortcomings that we've discussed through this book, but for me, this move and its motive is so despicable that even if Fanny is so excited to go, it just makes me furious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, let's continue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Fanny's very excited about this whole idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants to be with William.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants to spend time in her childhood homes, your family.
[SPEAKER_01]: If she had been one to give way to births of delight, she would right now, but she isn't she has a very quiet sort of joy and she's always inclined to silence when she's feeling most strongly, which is why she's been so quietly, but in this moment, she accepts the offer she says thank you and later she extrapolates a little bit more to William and Edmund about how happy she is, but even.
[SPEAKER_01]: then she can't fully express it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She feels that to be home again might heal the pain that had grown out of her separation and she can't wait to be at the center of a circle of people who love her, to feel affection without fear or restraint, to be their equal and primarily to not have to hear about the Crawford's anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's also really excited to be away from Edmund for two or three months.
[SPEAKER_00]: She needs to reproband it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says something about being away from his looks and his kindness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund Bertram must be so handsome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, smoking.
[SPEAKER_00]: He must be like, God, tear-hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wonder who plays him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I also wonder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, and she's also, it's currently a two month trip, but she's like, maybe I can extend it to fully get over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: She thinks she's going to get over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Girl, girl, girl, the one thing that she's like not thrilled about is that she's worried about Lady Bertram.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how she will get along without her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know who else is worried about Lady Bertram, Lady Bertram, Lady Bertram's real worried about Lady Bertram.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's quite a person.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Sir Thomas being the master of Mansfield Park is in charge of what happens and he says it's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: He explains to Lady Bertram, you know, Fanny has a duty to see her family and we haven't allowed her to have do that in the last eight years.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Lady Bertram is like, I'm convinced of the fact that you say she has to go, so she must go.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not convinced that she actually has to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: She thinks that Fanny has no need to see her parents who had done without her for so long, while she needs Fanny very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, while Sir Thomas had told Lady Bertram that giving up the fanning is a sacrifice she must make out of the goodness of her heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mrs. Norris is like, you're not going to miss fanning.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take care of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Norris is here.
[SPEAKER_01]: As we all, that's the words we all want to hear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your Nori girl has got this covered.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fanny writes to her mother saying that she wants to come visit and her mother writes back a very short yet sweet and loving message saying she's happy to have for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so kind that Fanny feels sure that she will find a warm and affectionate friend in the mamma who had showed no remarkable fondness for her thormally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder what their relationship was like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that her mom was busy with a lot of children.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she had too many mouths to feed and we know that at least years ago when Fanny came to humans, he was parked for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a very fraught situation financially.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: She feels like the fact that she and her mother had a hard time in her youth must have been her own fault or her own perception of the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: She thinks she'd probably alienated love by the helplessness and threatfulness of a fearful temper or by wanting too much when she was one of so many.
[SPEAKER_01]: She feels that now that she knows how to be useful and now that the kids are all
[SPEAKER_01]: She and her mom will be more at leisure and we'll be able to actually like hang out the warmth with which you're talking about Fanny right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like emanating off of you as you speak really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because like well, what are you feeling about Fanny talking about her mom like this?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of sad like I don't know I feel like She expects that she needs to be a certain way to be loved and cared for
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had to work so hard for a affection for so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know how to be loved now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've gotten great at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I can make her love me because I was bad at it when I was 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also hope that she is able to
[SPEAKER_01]: have leisure with her mom because at some point in this chapter oh literally right now William is like you'll be such a good influence that house is always in chaos and like you're such a steady presence and she's a lady and you're a lady she's she's got those Gentile manners Yeah you'll teach the girls how to behave and you'll teach our mom how to manage the house and like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of implies that she's not going to have the leisure that she's hoping for with her mom and to be able to like bond.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was hoping they would be able to bond.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, we don't know what's going to happen yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, because this is just one chapter.
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
[SPEAKER_01]: William also really wants to show Fanny his ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's he's thrilled about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: When Mrs. Norris finds out that William and Fanny are going to ride posts, which is quite expensive, she's like, I should go with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, they need a shaperone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they just shut up her own to put it to death.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, she's like, I haven't seen my sister in 20 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I should probably go visit her because I want to ride this fancy coat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and also because I'm so nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so nice to me to offer to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: William and Fanny are like, fuck.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really don't want her there.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are the exact words are horror-struck.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were really excited to have this long caradrade together to hang out and this is ruined everything for about two hours they think their plans have been a foil and they're like we have Mrs. Norris with us this is going to be the worst because nobody interferes with her planning either to say like yes you should do it or know you shouldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she has to decide by herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, she realizes that the Bertram simply cannot do without her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she should stay because she is again so nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just just being a selfless sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, she did really she'd have to pay for her own return.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was like, oh, fancy carriage ride one way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, there's a really great line from Austin about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think this might be my funniest quote So her poor dear sister price was left to all the disappointment of her missing such an opportunity as another 20 years absence perhaps began Mrs. Norris.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing about Norris.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like evil in the worst, but she's also so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: So funny
[SPEAKER_01]: Now Edmund also has to make a sacrifice here because he was supposed to leave for London in two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now he feels like he can't go to London because everyone's going to be leaving, everyone meaning Fanny and William, William who just got there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Fanny, but he feels like he needs to be there for his family.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he delays his trip by a week or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an effort felt, but not boast enough, because Edmund is more reserved.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't claim much, again, his older brother basically drained his own, like his brothers inheritance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he, and he hasn't been complaining about that at all, even though it's really complicated his life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he can withstand another few weeks at Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, according to the narrator, a trip that he hopes will fix this happiness forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we get it from their mouth, from Jane Austen herself, that he's going to propose on this trip.
[SPEAKER_01]: He sure is.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he tells Fanny that he's delaying his trip.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Fanny, through the whole conversation, is like, this is the last time he's going to talk about Miss Crawford as not his wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, the last time she's not going to be Mrs. Bertram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: Later, Lady Bird trim is telling Fanny to write her and promising that she's going to write her like right in return, which is sweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Edmund goes, oh, all right, too, as soon as I have something worth reporting, I'm going to propose and you're going to be so happy for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and she looks up and he's glowing and she's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck, poor fanny, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's tough being fanny, price is tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: This letter that she's expecting from him is just a subject of absolute terror.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she feels like she has not yet exhausted the vicissitudes of the human mind, meaning the quality of being changeable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So essentially, she is not over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she needs to get over him real quick before she gets this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's her last night in Mansfield Park and she is just going around every room crying and like basically rose to into glasses.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say oh yeah she's doing that thing like when you go on a big journey and you're like oh I'm going to miss everybody here and I've got this beautiful new thing in front of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Never forget.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to go to ports but then get over my cousin crush.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's giving her aunt Bertram the huge hug because she's going to miss her or their BFFs.
[SPEAKER_01]: She even kisses her uncle's hand because she feels she has disappointed him and she tries to make it up to him in that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then she says goodbye to Edmund and she can't speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is speechless.
[SPEAKER_01]: But afterwards, she feels that he has given her the affectionate goodbye of a brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ouch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tough to be fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really tough to be fanny prices.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what we're landing on here is she and William depart early early in the morning so that when everyone gets up for breakfast, they're already gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is the end of that chapter headed to Portsmouth that brings us to the study question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Starting with the Patron study questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listeners, I once again want to remind you that if you would like to ask questions of us about the chapters in this book, you can become a patron on our Patreon at $15 here, submit your questions in a Google Doc that Molly posts before we record, and then we will ask them on the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Avi asks, from this chapter, we get glimpses of Fanny's relationship to her family, especially her mother.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would you describe it and what do you think it will be like when she returns?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, I would describe her relationship to her mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, as this estranged, I don't think they've written.
[SPEAKER_01]: She only corresponded with William.
[SPEAKER_00]: She really corresponds with William, that's her big correspondent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting to see how much she has changed because we've been with her through most of her life at this point and we've seen her come into herself a little bit more just in the last year, but she's also probably way different from when she was 10 and lived with a bunch of other siblings in a house that was like kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: Shouldy in comparison.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you see that the lack of affection in Fanny felt in those first few chapters of Mansfield Park was not like an entirely unfamiliar to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, she had affection with her siblings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's made clear, especially with William, but with her other siblings, she was the adored and leading playmate as the eldest girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it seems like she didn't get a lot of that
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't hear about him at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't heard much about him, have we?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's not a stranger to kind of absent parental figures.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that up until this point, I've kind of been glorifying Port Smith in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was the time when she was so happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now she's so sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But actually, maybe she wasn't super happy there either.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what Port Smith's gonna look like at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it will be interesting to see how she has perceived by her family, because she might be super different.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think she will feel different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's suddenly going to be instead of being the lowest and the like food chain of the family, she's suddenly going to be this fancy person coming to stay with them for a couple of months.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'll be very fun to see how she handles that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Angelica asks, throughout Fanny's life at Mansfield, Edmund has been her confident and the one family member who seems to quote, get her.
[SPEAKER_00]: We see in this chapter that Edmund misreads Fanny's emotions, it's Edmund just this naive, or do you think there's a degree of willful misunderstanding at play?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Edmund is blinded by love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund's very blinded by love, I also think that, you know, Edmund has been her main confident for the last eight years, but Edmund also has not been privy to every emotion that Vinnie has ever had, particularly as it pertains to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think that's the big thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that is his ultimate blind spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that he is clearly willfully blind to certain things about how Fanny's feeling right now, partially because he's thinking with another appendage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, not his head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just super into Mary Crawford, but that's also leading him to overlook how wrong Henry might feel to Fanny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he really wants Fannie to like Henry Crawford and despite her telling him that's not going to happen ever he's like holding on to a shred of hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's definitely a willfulness understanding because he doesn't want to ruin the relationship between the Crawford's and the Bertrams.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I mean, I think the same goes for his feelings on Mary and Fanny's friendship as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: He really wants the two of them to get along.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's so close to both of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Fanny fucking hates Mary sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's complicated, but like clearly like that is a that is an animosity driven relationship, at least from Fanny's side very heavily.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's definitely some mobile misunderstanding there, but also we've been over this Edmund's dumb real dumb Edmund's fucking stupid man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he went to Oxford.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was he doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, being stupid and reading the Bible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he, yeah, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, he's book smart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, no, he's definitely book smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just, he wasn't getting any.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, no, Edmund Bertram is not savvy in the arts of woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, bless his heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, those are our patron city questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I want to back us city questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Starting with Fanny will be returning to Portsmouth.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think this will mean for her character?
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like I said for obvious, I think the main, I think what I've landed on is that she's going from the punching bag to the person that people might look up to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, her status in the home is certainly shifting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, don't think that she's going to get over Edmund.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think also the fact that she says that part of the reason she wants to go is to not have to hear about the Crawfords means that they're going to definitely be there something like that can't possibly be the end of the Crawford.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that she thinks she's going to like get reprieve from all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Escapé.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that she's going to get to Escapé.
[SPEAKER_00]: No Escapé for Fanny.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. Why does she know Stins and Fanny reports myth?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as we said last chapter, everybody went to London, and I was like, I don't think Fanny can just stay at Mansfield.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were very right and very wrong at the same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought she was going to London.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not going to London, but she had to go somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, we were definitely, we're on an adventure with Fanny now, and you were correct that Fanny needed to be on an adventure.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were spending way too much time at Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also think it'll be really cool to see where she came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we haven't seen that yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sir Thomas is, we've already kind of covered this one, and I got a pissy again at Sir Thomas, which I'm want to do when I'm reading Mansfield Park.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever this book is three times.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my fourth time reading it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And every single time I read it, it almost comes as a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Little bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sir Thomas has stayed a little tearier motives for sending Fannie DePort Smith.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is this motive?
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us about his character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rotten in his core a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah because like he can say that he cares about Fanny and like what's best for her all he wants but he's still driving her to do what he wants her to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has the vibes of a character who has been spoiled and I think we show getting quote cut off by their family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you need to learn how to be on your own.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not that because Fanny's not his daughter, Fanny is his ward who he has always treated like a lesser member of the family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she has spent her whole existence terrified that she will seem ungracious for getting the opportunity to be raised away from her family in a different home where she's been treated as the inferior person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I see Sir Thomas in this book in Iraq with Fanny, I cannot release the first two chapters of the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: They live through the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's moments like this where I get really angry that he's like trying to twist her into doing something she doesn't want to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: By trying to prove to her how much she needs him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I also think it shows how little he knows for a really, because he doesn't know that seeing her family at least my prediction is that it's not going to make her feel the way that he thinks it's going to make her feel it's almost like he's assuming she's of maybe a weaker moral character than she is like he has been the whole time like he might himself be right like others in his family might like the rest of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we're going to switch gears a bit and go back to Edmund.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk a little bit about the Edmund Mary love story as it compares to Henry Crawford and Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do they compare at this point in the book?
[SPEAKER_01]: Edmund and Mary are on the precipice of getting engaged.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Fanny feels now more than ever that she doesn't want to marry Henry Crawford.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Henry Crawford left the last chapter feeling like very somber.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very puu.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was like, oh, she doesn't love me, but I'm resigning myself to a life of being in love with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's leaving with that I will be gone for a while and I'm going to have to withstand being away from you, but I will not stop loving you and I will keep trying when I get back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so he's like in a deep place, not necessarily dark, but definitely subdued.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she is like, thank God he's gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am going to get over my cousin crush.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am going to never have to listen to this man's name again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she believes that he's going to stay in love with her when he's away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think she might think this is done.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're just at very different points in their love stories.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that's correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that I've been thinking about as we've been reading through this book and something that it's starting to manifest is how clear parallel those two love stories are in some ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Edmund is this guy with all these upright principles and Mary Crawford comes in and Mary
[SPEAKER_00]: lacks a lot of principles that are important to Edmund.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are a value mismatch, but there is attraction there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a sort of vibe between the two of them and Mary is kind of got this, I finally found a nice man.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is like, I didn't know people could be this nice vibe with Edmund.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and that's what Henry has with Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not to say that there isn't anything appealing about Henry too funny as we saw in the Shakespeare chapter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy can act.
[SPEAKER_00]: She kind of felt hot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, listen, he is hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know this and he's interesting looking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he is hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: People can be hot even if they're not as classically handsome as Edmund Bertram must be for how much people are attracted to him in this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Henry has a hot energy to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We hear, we know this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, everyone falls in love with him, except Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm kind of trying to get at is that to Fanny, the value mismatch is so game over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with Edmund, it's been this like thing he's been trying to work around, totally for himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's there in both cases and it is interesting to watch and then kind of put that in the back of his brain and just indulge in what he wants to indulge in while Mary is like this is the guy who's going to make me happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Henry saying this is the girl is going to make me happy and Fini is not putting it at the back of her brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's taking front and center for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: something that I'm wondering is because there have been so many well in the last chapter there were these warnings from Mary Crawford about like what could happen in marriage and how marriage like generally ends up badly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm wondering if Edmond and Mary may act as a warning for one way the marriage could end up and Fanny is like the look you avoided that storyline
[SPEAKER_00]: The other question is whether or not Henry or Mary can change yes to be with the Bertram of their respective choice yes or Henry's case the price
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, Edmund, he can benefit from being more like Mary, so it's a longer conversation to have about that I want to have at the end of the book, but there is some gray to the way Mary is where like in Fanny's brain Edmund can do no wrong and Mary is this temptress.
[SPEAKER_00]: who's constantly seducing him away into doing bad things but at the end of the day it's like Mary's entitled to two care about certain things and Edmund is entitled to care about certain things and neither one of them seems to be able to resist each other so ultimately at the end of the day, I'll fucking defend Mary, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Final question, Jane Austen's taking us
[SPEAKER_00]: sure is because you know our guy William is going to see yes so it's a it's a port it's port mouth port Smith port Smith so it's a port yeah i'm not going to give you too much detail but you don't know what that much about English geography i sure don't but it's it's on the southern tip of the British aisle oh great so it's like kind of like by France
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it will be, I imagine bustling and like more of a town than panties used to because she lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's take it outside of just Mansfield Park because this is new.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the new place like Jane Austen-wise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, have we been to a place like this before?
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been to Bath.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not a port town.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not a port town.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a fashionable tourist town.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like working people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've been to London, which is obviously mixed both Bath and London are of mixed social class.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in persuasion in particular, we took a brief four way into a lower social class to visit Miss Smith a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Miss Smith a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we didn't
[SPEAKER_00]: live there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We lived in a gotty house from Anne's family.
[SPEAKER_00]: In London, we were in sentence and stability.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were with Mrs. Jennings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously we've done some travel with Lizzy on like a little tourist vacation, but that's like the nice country area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Port Smith's like a port town.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, poor people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was going to say it's like working class.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess most comparable to a lime of all the places we've been because that's also a seaside town.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know that they were there as tourists.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, I think we are we are entering new territory in terms of the lodgings of a Jane Austen heroine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also like I gosh, I mean, is Sir Thomas wrong that she will see how different her life has been.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's not wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's something that will happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: The question is how much will she care?
[SPEAKER_01]: And how much also, like, will she just feel guilty that she got that experience and the rest of her family didn't?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to question about what will happen when she goes sportsman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, can't wait to find out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he has to quote.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I'm just going to read a little bit more about Mrs. Norris and visiting her sister and the not visiting her sister.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had, in fact, occurred to her that though taken to ports with for nothing, it would be hardly possible for her to avoid paying her own expenses back again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So her poor dear sister price was left to all the disappointment of her missing such an opportunity and another 20 years absence perhaps began.
[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just love that bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I hate her by yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is a funny, frugal bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Questions moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously what's going to happen in Portsmouth is a big question, but I also wonder if Edmund will in fact go to London.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he will be too late, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary could, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: She could something could happen before he gets there, but also will he come back engaged to Mary Crawford?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who wins the chapter?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a fan is leaving.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's going to do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Given it's very again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, Fanny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're on the, I think this is a pot and prejudice record for most times winning a chapter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but everyone else in this book sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also...
[SPEAKER_01]: was not displeased with Lady Bertroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an actor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's never forget our boy William Price.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just didn't really do much, but he was there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just came and was like, He chose to use his leave of absence to come and visit her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, listeners, that concludes this episode of Potomper Judges.
[SPEAKER_00]: For next time, we're just going to read Chapter 38, or if your book is volume to volume the third chapter seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Molly, are you ready to dive into Portsmouth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Got to find out what happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, until next time, stay proper.
[SPEAKER_01]: And go on a trip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go visit your childhood home, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless it turns out badly there, then maybe that's maybe a little side next episode that you don't want to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for now, go visit your childhood home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Potten Pajadis is edited by Molly Birdick and audio produced by Graham Cook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our show art is designed by Torrance Brown.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our show is transcribed by speech docs, podcast transcription.
[SPEAKER_01]: For transcripts, and to learn more about our team, check out our website at PottenPajadis.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: To keep up with the show, you can follow us on social media at PottenPajadis.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you love what you hear, check out our Patreon to see how you can support us by some merch at pod and prejudice.dashery.com or just drop us a rating and a review wherever you get your podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stay proper.