The Business Behind The Brand | Mark Manson

Mark Manson pulls back the curtain on the business behind the brand and why owning your audience beats chasing Hollywood every time.

Topics Covered:

• How Mark built a 10-million-follower, $5M media company from his personal brand
• Why he walked away from traditional media deals and what that cost him
• The attention model powering modern creator businesses
• How AI is reshaping content strategy, ideation, and operations

Most people know Mark Manson as the author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck. But behind the bestsellers, the movie deal, and the Hollywood meetings was a slow, expensive realization: the old media world wasn't the prize, it was a distraction. In this segment of his interview on The Entrepreneur's Studio, Mark shares exactly how he made the pivot to becoming a media company CEO, and what entrepreneurs can learn from the new rules of distribution.

Mark's wake-up call came from a Zoom meeting with Universal's marketing team and a "plan" that boiled down to one thing: Mark's Instagram. That moment crystallized something that took him years to accept. Traditional media had prestige, but creators had leverage. The audience was the asset, and he'd been giving it away for pennies.

So he rebuilt from the ground up. Today, Mark's company publishes approximately 400 pieces of content a month across every major platform, employs 23 full-time team members, and is on track to hit $5 million in revenue. The model isn't unique, he says—but it is largely invisible to outsiders who only see the one TikTok that showed up in their feed.

For entrepreneurs and creators, the insight is clear: distribution is no longer something you rent from a network or a studio. You can own it. Whether that means a newsletter, a YouTube channel, or a podcast, the companies winning right now are the ones building direct relationships with their audiences—and using tools like AI to scale what's working.

What You'll Take Away:

• Why the audience is the most valuable business asset a creator can own
• How to spot the difference between prestige opportunities and real leverage
• What it actually takes to build a content engine at scale
• Where AI genuinely helps (and where it still frustrates)

"If you're a creative marketing person, it is a really, really exciting time to be alive. It feels like the world's your oyster in some ways." — Mark Manson

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1 Chris Allen: The future of media doesn't belong to the biggest

studios anymore.

It belongs to the people who own the audience.

Today on the Entrepreneur Studio, we're continuing our

conversation with best-selling author Mark Madison.

But this episode isn't about writing books or handling

extreme success.

It's about what happens after the breakthrough.

In this segment of our conversation, Mark pulls back

the curtain on the business behind the brand, the shift from

blogger to best-selling author to CEO, why he walked away from

traditional media opportunities, and how creators are finding

success by owning distribution instead of renting attention.

Be sure to listen to the end from Mark's fascinating take on

how AI and digital platforms are reshaping the future of

business, marketing, and creative work.

I'm Chris Allen, and this episode will give you a snapshot

into where media, branding, and attention marketing are headed

next.

What it takes to build influence in the modern economy.

And now you have this company.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Two actually.

Chris Allen: Yeah, it's like just talk about that.

Talk about the transition to help people understand the the

business of this.

It's like it's personal brand meets author, meets media,

right?

Like this whole idea.

Talk to us about sort of the the refactoring of everything that

took you in this direction.

SPEAKER_02: Totally.

So started on the internet, right?

Started blogging, did some of the social media stuff.

Back in those days, back in the 2010s, kind of like the

blueprint for anybody doing anything online, whether it was

YouTube or a podcast or whatever, it was just get famous

enough online so you can go get the book deal, or you can go get

on a TV show, or you can, you know, go go get your album made.

That was the whole game plan.

Like nobody really thought past that.

And myself included.

So I, you know, the book took off, and uh, you know, a bunch

more book deals came through.

And so I, you know, I wrote a bunch of other books, I did a

movie, I had some TV deals that never got made, and and and I

was like, cool, I made it.

Like this is this is it.

I I did it.

Um that all changed in the pandemic.

Two two things happened kind of simultaneously.

One is that online content just skyrocketed in a way, you know,

I think it was inevitable, but I think that the pandemic just

accelerated it to a great extent.

And then the second thing that happened is well, the second on

a more personal note is uh I actually did get a film made and

I did work with a major film studio, and I saw how absolutely

like laborious and bureaucratic and unnecessarily expensive, and

how much red tape there was, and how like nobody knew anything.

I mean, I I would get on, I remember getting on marketing

calls uh with this studio.

And I mean, it's a studio that uh, well, whatever, it's

universal.

I would get on, I would get on Zoom calls with like Universal's

marketing team, and and there'd be like 13 people there.

And we'd have this like hour-long conversation where

nothing was really being said.

And we would get to the end of the call, and it and essentially

everything boiled down to was, oh, the marketing plan is Mark's

Instagram.

And this happened away.

This happened multiple times, like it to the point where I'm

like, why do I need you people?

Like, I yeah, like this is a low budget film.

I could have made this myself.

I probably could have made it for like a quarter of the cost.

I could probably just put it on my YouTube channel and ask

people to give me five bucks, and I'd probably make 10 times

more money.

And so I was kind of looking at it like, this is insane.

And meanwhile, like all of these creators and influencers that uh

I had kind of come up with, like, they're building these

massive audiences and there's tons of money rolling in.

So I made the pivot to um really build out kind of an online

media company.

So we launched a YouTube channel, we launched a podcast,

um, really invested a lot in growing my newsletter.

We're now doing um content on on every platform, uh, every

medium, every format, every platform.

We are doing approximately uh 400 pieces of content per month

across all platforms.

Chris Allen: That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's we've grown the total audience is just

past 10 million followers across all platforms.

Um, and it's it's we're probably gonna hit five million dollars

in revenue this year.

So, like, and we're profitable.

So, like it's uh it's funny because I'm like I sometimes I

get calls from publishers and and TV people, and they're like,

hey, I've got a great idea.

You you want to chat?

And I'm like, probably not worth my time, yeah.

Which is crazy.

Chris Allen: That is so crazy.

So, you know, the Thanksgiving table, right?

You've got all these employees, and you're you you said this

really hilarious thing uh uh about having employees.

Yes, you gotta tell what it's like around the Thanksgiving

table.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Uh so the funny thing about this business is I think it it's

still underestimated, right?

And and like people don't realize because and I think I

think people don't understand how much goes into this, right?

So like I have 23 full-time employees.

Uh, we've got multiple teams all over the world.

Um and it's funny because like I'll go home for Thanksgiving

and and I'll talk to my mom and uh and she'll be like, Oh, how's

work going?

I'm like, Yeah, we just hired five more people this quarter,

and she'll she'll just look at me and she's like, What do they

do?

She's like, How what do all your people do?

She's like, it's just a video on Insta Instagram.

Chris Allen: They're all extras, mom.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're they're look-alikes, right?

Uh, but it it's I think people don't realize because generally,

you know, people only see, you know, uh if they see a video of

me, right?

It's just that one video on TikTok.

They don't realize that there's a video on TikTok that day, two

videos on TikTok that day, two on Instagram, two on Facebook,

one on YouTube, um, one newsletter that went out, one

Substack that went out.

And this is all happening every single day, right?

So there's a whole machinery behind the scenes that that is

not only invisible to people, I think, um, but also like they

they don't realize that how extensive the the distribution

is.

And and it's like nothing I'm doing is particularly unique or

notable.

Like, I mean, I could rattle off 10 or 20 names that are have the

same business model and are doing the same thing at the same

scale, but it's it's just kind of invisible to people.

Chris Allen: Like so is it like an attention model, right?

You know, okay, okay, got it.

That's really cool.

Uh, what is the so if it's if it's not unique and it's

attention model, you're uh you're basically trying to

design content that you care about for uh algorithms that

people actually care about and monetizing it that way.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it uh this is something else that's kind of

changed a little bit too, because back in the day, you

know, sponsors and and and brands and stuff like you know,

influencers, it was kind of a a punchline.

Like it was it was a silly thing, right?

Um, and I mean you guys have probably seen this in in the

stuff that you guys do.

Um it's and so the way you monetized online back in the day

was you had a Patreon or you launched a course or you would

do meetups, you know, or whatever.

You you kind of monetize your own audience and built your own

back end.

Um, I would say it it once you hit a certain scale today, it's

the ad revenue sponsorship revenue is so significant that

it's like I've actually shut down most of my courses because

it's just like it it's hard to justify promoting them and

keeping the the team maintaining them when I can just go out and

get brands who can pay me the same amount and I don't have to

like you know have to build out a back end or anything.

Chris Allen: Yeah.

So my mentor said to me one time, because I I had this weird

moment where um I was like, man, maybe maybe I should go back to

business school.

And he looked at me, he's like, You're taking the Randy Clark

MBA, right?

And one of the things that happened was there are there are

these things that happened in business, uh, and maybe even in

your in your life as well.

You know, everybody thinks like, well, the college expense, this

big expense that I'm paying, sort of like that's the toll

booth to get me the job and do all the things.

But I wanted to ask you about business and sort of this whole

sort of, let's just say 2016, let's say the you know, the last

decade.

There's gotta be something where, like, man, that was

really expensive and it was a really expensive lesson, but it

was a great lesson that you were willing to pay and maybe you'd

pay it again.

Do you have anything like that?

That was like, I'm telling you, I was like, I've got to ask him

this question because it's one of those things that everybody's

got something that they're like, man, that was really expensive.

I mean, for me, sometimes it's things I'm trying to do for

taxes.

And I'm like, I thought that that would work and did not

work.

Right.

I get feedback April 15th.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: Totally.

Um, I I mean, I've I've made a lot of mistakes.

I mean, I it's probably this is probably coming to mind just

because it's it's we just talked about it.

But you know, what I think a lot of the things for me are just

opportunity costs.

So when I think about there's a certain seduction with

Hollywood, right?

It's it's like when when there's producers and stuff taking you

out to dinner and buying you dinner and telling you how

brilliant you are.

Like there's a there's a real kind of nostalgic, romantic,

like, oh my God, I can't believe this is this is happening for

me.

Like I'm making it.

And then like I look back and I'm like, I wasted so so many

hours for multiple years, um really just playing a game that

I probably shouldn't have been playing in the first place.

Um and I I I think it's in my world, there's there's a lot of

confusion.

I think there's kind of there's almost like two separate media

worlds.

And it took me a long time to figure this out, but there's

like two completely separate media worlds.

There's the online media world or like the new media world, and

then there's the traditional media world.

And I think a lot of people just kind of blindly assume because

the old media world has all the prestige and it has all the

clout and it has a lot of the institutions and you know,

cultural gravitas.

You just assume that's where all the opportunities are.

But it's actually what I've discovered is it's the complete

opposite.

Like nobody in traditional media is making money right now.

In fact, they're all the whole reason they're coming and

finding people like me is because they're like, we need

your Instagram audience because we don't know, like we can't get

butts in seats otherwise, right?

Um, and and so it it took me a couple years to realize that,

like, uh-oh.

You know, it's like that old saying, it's like if you're in a

room and you can't tell who the sucker is, you're the sucker,

right?

So too many times.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, it's like I would sit in these rooms and I'm like,

why am I here?

And I don't totally understand.

Like, there's so many great screenwriters in Hollywood,

like, why me?

Right?

Like, I know, like I wrote a good book, but like, really, why

me?

Yeah, uh, and then I realized I'm like, oh, it is it really is

the Instagram audience.

Why so why am I giving this away for like pennies, you know?

And working for them while I do it.

Chris Allen: Yeah, and and they seduced you, they they got you,

and they are like, this just comes along because this is just

what he you know what he does, and we'll be able to use it.

That's it's a crazy insight to have that asset be so desirable.

It's it's really crazy.

I mean, like you just watch what Mr.

Beast has done, right?

It is it's insane.

It's it's insane.

It's I mean, I I think he's he's buying a basketball team now or

something.

It's I'm like, man, this is amazing what this guy has done,

you know.

Um, so he's he's just on uh uh another level being able to

monetize YouTube like that, right?

That's it, it's it's wild.

I think it's an unlock for people that they don't

understand, is the social media thing.

And for people that get it, they're like, How'd you do it?

Right?

Well, let's hire him to do this thing, right?

And maybe we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_02: It it it's funny, you you're starting to see a lot

of companies catch.

I mean, obviously, we're here, right?

So you you got you're ahead of the curve on this, but like it

people are catching on that this is distribution of the future.

And not only is it the distribution channels of the

future, but like you can own it, right?

Like you don't need to just go give meta all your money from

now to the end of time.

Like you can build IP, you can build assets, you can uh

document, you know, behind the scenes in your company and uh

create employee content and all sorts of stuff.

I think it's it's a fascinating time that the distribution is is

getting so decentralized across so many people and so many

channels.

And I think if you're if you're a creative person, if you're a

creative marketing person, especially, like it is a really,

really exciting time to be alive.

Like it's just it feels like the world's your oyster in some

ways.

Chris Allen: Okay, so I gotta ask, um, what are you doing with

AI?

SPEAKER_02: No.

Chris Allen: Like, what are we not doing?

Yeah, how much time do we have?

Um my team's probably like, really?

Because I ask, I ask everybody, right?

Because we're, I'd say uh pretty aggressive about uh about it.

But like I just have a personal enthusiasm for I love it, the

scale and the things like either these dreams that you have that

you're like, man, I wish I could build a business idea generator

so that people could have that and I could have that be a hook.

And then all of a sudden AI comes and I I built it in an

hour and a half.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Chris Allen: I was like, this is so fun.

SPEAKER_02: I I I it's funny.

I I had been dreaming about kind of a centralized dashboard

because it's like it in all the social platforms and everything,

like they have their own analytics, but it it's all

behind their own dashboards and it's all like a mess.

And so you have to go to like eight different places to to to

see everything.

And I for years I dreamed about just like centralizing

everything in my company and like a single dashboard.

Um, and I even I even hired a developer a couple years ago to

try to build it and he failed and it was costing a bunch of

money.

So I just scrapped the idea.

And it was like two weekend with clawed code.

Chris Allen: Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: There it is.

Dashboards made.

And it it it really is insane.

I will say, like my experience with it is um it's it's quite

jagged, right?

So it's it, you it's you kind of get whiplash sometimes where you

know, I'll get on one day and it just feels like a miracle.

Like just miracles start happening, like things get made

and insights are I have uh come out of conversations, just are

things that would have taken me months of thought or work will

happen in literally minutes.

And then I'll get on the next day and I will literally just

start screaming at Claude like it is a terrible intern because

it's uttering amnesia.

Chris Allen: You're like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_02: It screws up this simplest thing.

I'm like, this is so obvious.

How did you fuck this up?

Chris Allen: I have this, I have this email called Amnesia Solved

that I had him write.

And so every single time the amnesia pops up, I'm like, go to

your email and read amnesia solved.

SPEAKER_02: I put it, I was I was doing Claude Code and um and

it would get it would do like I don't know why it kept doing

this, but it would do like 90% of the work, and then it would

like give me the code and tell me to go execute it.

And I was like, why are you doing this?

Like, just do it yourself, like finish the job.

And and then it would finish it.

And it kept, but it kept asking me to do that.

So then I went into the Claude MD file and I like explicitly

wrote, I'm like, never ask me to execute code if you can execute

it yourself.

And then sure enough, 10 minutes later, it asked me to execute

code again.

And then I just replied to it.

I was like, I was like, what the hell have I told you about this?

And then and then it immediately replied, was like, oh, I'm

sorry, I'll get right on it.

Chris Allen: I gotta say, I I could just imagine Mark Manson

railing, you know, uh, you know, this this naughty intern, you

know, uh called Claude.

That's really hilarious.

SPEAKER_02: It's uh yeah, I've definitely lost, lost my temper

a few times.

But I will say, so with it, it is interesting within the

company.

I do find it is either unbelievably useful for some

things, like research.

I would say it's unbelievably useful.

Um ideation.

I actually find it, I've been finding it extremely helpful for

like uh kind of brand strategy.

Um, so I'm going through a little, we're we're doing a

little bit of a rebrand at the moment.

And so been thinking a lot about like, you know, aesthetic and

words and positioning and everything.

And um, it's just it's been incredible.

Like it's just been an amazing thought partner for something

like that, like very intangible things.

It it's amazing.

But then there's other things that it I still think it just

sucks at.

And you you kind of have to just learn where it's good and where

it's not.

Yeah.

Narrator : Thank you for listening to the Entrepreneurs

Studio Podcast.

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