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HELL ON WHEELS, MACKENZIE SHIRILLA KILLS 2 MEN DEMANDS KIM KARDASHIAN

Mackenzie Shirilla is serving 15 years to life at the Ohio Reformatory for Women. She was convicted on 12 counts, including murder and aggravated vehicular homicide, after deliberately crashing her car into a brick building at 100 mph. Two passengers were killed, Shirilla's boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and their friend, Davion Flanagan. Data from the car's black box showed Shirilla floored the gas pedal and never used the brakes, making calculated steering and gear adjustments before impact.  She was 17 at the time. 

The case has returned to national headlines due to the  release of the Netflix true-crime documentary series, The Crash.

Shirilla will not be eligible for her first parole hearing until October 2037. 

Joining Nancy Grace today:

  • Christine Russo  - Dominic Russo's older sister - Host, "The Big Sister: Unhinged Podcast,"  Instagram: @thebigsisterunhingedwww.youtube.com/@TheBigSisterUnhinged
  • Shyann Topping  - Mackenzie Shirilla's prison girlfriend in 2023 for about 8-9 months
  • Kat Crowder  - Former inmate who served time with Mackenzie Shirilla, TikTok: @boujeebehindbars Instagram: @boujeebehindbars 
  • Dr. Cheryl Arutt - Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR Website: askdrcheryl.com Website: CreativeEMDR.comIG: @askdrcheryl  
  • Derek Smith -  Criminal Defense Attorney, website: dwsmithlegal.com  
  • Thomas Coyne  - Medical Examiner, University of Florida.  District Eight Medical Examiner, State of Florida. Toxicologist.  Forensic Pathologist and Neuropathologist.  
  • Joel Waldman - Co-host of "Surviving the Survivor,"   Co-Founder and Creative Director at Content Product Media 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker 1: Hell on wheels. Mackenzie Shrilla kills two young men and

Speaker 1: now demands Kim Kardashian come to her aid, amongst other

Speaker 1: diva commands. Good evening, I mean to see grace. This

Speaker 1: is crime stories. I want to thank you for being

Speaker 1: with us.

Speaker 2: Seventeen year old Mackenzie Sherilla is driving home after a

Speaker 2: party with her boyfriend and a friend as passengers. Surveillance

Speaker 2: footage shows the Toyota Camry suddenly accelerating, reaching speeds of

Speaker 2: up to one hundred miles per hour as it moves

Speaker 2: through the area. Within seconds, a loud, violent crash is

Speaker 2: captured on camera.

Speaker 3: There's a car that's smashed up against the building. I

Speaker 3: didn't go up to it because I was on my motorcycle.

Speaker 3: I don't know I get stuck. But they ran the curb.

Speaker 3: I can see the They smashed the sign and hit

Speaker 3: the building. The car crashed.

Speaker 1: Let me understand, two young men, very young men, are

Speaker 1: dead because of Mackenzie Shrilla. Yet she is making diva demands,

Speaker 1: insisting that Kim Kardashian come defend her, and is upset

Speaker 1: the Today Show did not interview her. Okay, let me

Speaker 1: let that sink in for just one moment straight out

Speaker 1: to Joel Waldman Colost of surviving the survivor what happened

Speaker 1: to the victims?

Speaker 4: You know, obviously one hundred miles an hour into a

Speaker 4: brick wall. What's really interesting if you see, prior to

Speaker 4: crashing into the wall, there is a slow, meticulous turn,

Speaker 4: and that is why this bench judge eventually convicted Mackenzie

Speaker 4: Shirrilla these crimes. But they go directly into that brick wall.

Speaker 4: From what I understand, one of the two victims dies instantly,

Speaker 4: the other does not. Mackenzie Shirilla was never unconscious, was

Speaker 4: never unconscious at the hospital, and had her wits about

Speaker 4: her the entire time. So I was stunned to hear that.

Speaker 1: Before we go to Dominic's sister Christaine, listen to this.

Speaker 5: I've never spoke before, and I never told my side

Speaker 5: of the story. And I understand there's many different sides

Speaker 5: to the story and different perspectives, but I just want

Speaker 5: to say my truth, and I just know myself, and

Speaker 5: I know I'm a monster my truth.

Speaker 1: I immediately get suspicious when someone says my truth, which means

Speaker 1: what your truth is different from everybody else's truth? How

Speaker 1: can that be that's reference at Netflix. You say, I

Speaker 1: know I'm not a monster. Yes you are. Listen.

Speaker 5: It was like five in the morning and we decided

Speaker 5: to head back to Dom's house, and I remember turning

Speaker 5: on the street and then I'm waking up in the

Speaker 5: hospital the next day and I don't.

Speaker 6: Then my whole life is shattered. I have no recollection

Speaker 6: of that morning. I'm not saying I'm innocent. I was

Speaker 6: a driver of a tragedy, but I'm not a murderer.

Speaker 1: That's from our friends at Netflix. She's lying through her teeth.

Speaker 1: Why is she saying I woke up in the hospital.

Speaker 1: Have no idea what happened. My whole life is shattered. Girl.

Speaker 1: They're dead, They're dead, Their families lives are shattered. Straight

Speaker 1: out to Christine Russo. This is Dominic's sister. She is

Speaker 1: the star of the Big Sister Unhinged podcast, trying to

Speaker 1: preserve her little brother's legacy. That's what she's left with.

Speaker 1: That is what her family is left with, dealing with

Speaker 1: this young man's death, needless, senseless death. Christaine, when you

Speaker 1: hear her talking, it's got to just push you over

Speaker 1: the edge.

Speaker 7: Yeah, it really makes me sick. Honestly, I I just

Speaker 7: watching that. I haven't seen that. I try not to

Speaker 7: listen or watch many things, but it just makes me

Speaker 7: absolutely sick.

Speaker 1: What happened when you learned Dominic had been killed?

Speaker 7: The second that I learned, or my family learned that

Speaker 7: Dominic had been killed, we are, like I say, there's

Speaker 7: before domb and after dumb. It's completely shattered. I can't

Speaker 7: even put into words how tragic this has been for

Speaker 7: our entire family, so much so that it's like I

Speaker 7: don't see this ever, just will never get better. There

Speaker 7: will be no, you know, anything getting better ever for us.

Speaker 1: What happened when you learned your brother had been killed?

Speaker 7: I got a phone call from my dad and he

Speaker 7: kept calling over and over and I get no reception,

Speaker 7: and alls I could hear was him saying Dom's gone.

Speaker 7: Dom's gone, but I have a few dums in my family.

Speaker 7: I didn't want to think my brother, you know, and

Speaker 7: it was we immediately left the island. My brother Mikey's

Speaker 7: rear ended somebody trying to get home so we could

Speaker 7: all be together, smash somebody's car up from behind, just

Speaker 7: completely Ever since then, like it's just tragic.

Speaker 1: Christine Russo joining us. This is Dominic's sister. It wasn't

Speaker 1: the moment, it wasn't a split second. It was her

Speaker 1: intentionally crashing into a fixed object, killing Dominic. That's what

Speaker 1: changed everyone's life forever. How many different people are things?

Speaker 1: Can she blind?

Speaker 7: Yeah, it wasn't a split second at all. She actually

Speaker 7: if you watch the video, you could tell they're fighting

Speaker 7: in the car on the main road. She keeps breaking

Speaker 7: her car. You could see the car lights breaking for

Speaker 7: no reason. The road was completely it is completely dead,

Speaker 7: nobody's on the road. And before the turn that you

Speaker 7: don't even have to break on, she's like slamming on

Speaker 7: her lights or slamming on her brakes, so you could

Speaker 7: see the break lights in the car. And from then

Speaker 7: on she just floored it one hundred percent. And it

Speaker 7: wasn't a split second. This took a long street. She

Speaker 7: floored it with no breaks the entire time into the building.

Speaker 1: The two arguing at the time, what is your theory, Christaine?

Speaker 1: Why did she do this?

Speaker 7: Dominic Hauld They were steady breaking up. Dominique had been

Speaker 7: trying to get rid of her and break up with

Speaker 7: her for quite some time. He's confided in his best

Speaker 7: friends and our closest siblings and things that he was.

Speaker 7: He was steady trying to break up with her, and

Speaker 7: I just think that she couldn't She couldn't have that,

Speaker 7: she couldn't understand that she wasn't willing to let him go.

Speaker 1: Joel Wollman explained to me the physical evidence that she

Speaker 1: intentionally crashed and killed, not just dominant two people did.

Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there are absolutely no skid marks. Obviously they

Speaker 4: did a crash investigation and homicide investigation kind of uh concurrently.

Speaker 4: But like I said, there was a slow turn just

Speaker 4: prior to this acceleration, so we know that she was

Speaker 4: in control of the car at least up to this

Speaker 4: point where we're seeing this car turn. There was you know,

Speaker 4: there was there was no health emergency. There was never

Speaker 4: any evidence of a health emergency. She claimed, and the

Speaker 4: family claims that she suffers from something called pot which

Speaker 4: affects your blood pressure. There was never any evidence admitted.

Speaker 1: Is that her with a big fat blunt hold on,

Speaker 1: excuse me, Joel, please look at your Can we replay that?

Speaker 1: Is that her at the wheel with a big blunt Yeah?

Speaker 4: So so, Nancy, they you know, they tested her. There

Speaker 4: was psilocybin and marijuana in the car. She did test

Speaker 4: positive for that blunt, not that specific one, that's a

Speaker 4: different time, but she tested positive for marijuana and not

Speaker 4: for the psilocybin which are mushrooms, and not for alcohol.

Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, he's she's just absolutely reckless driving

Speaker 4: around on prior occasions. And it's sad to say, but

Speaker 4: it's not all that surprising. I mean it's really it

Speaker 4: makes me indignant, Nancy. I know you get upset about

Speaker 4: these things, but to think that then seventeen year old

Speaker 4: just totally had no respect for these other two lives

Speaker 4: and is able to just do this, it just blows

Speaker 4: the mind. What is going on with this generation, with

Speaker 4: a society, with social media? What is happening?

Speaker 1: Joe will tell me about the victims. Dominic and Davian.

Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean they were friends. Davian was a

Speaker 4: star football player at the high school dom He was

Speaker 4: a very studious person, took school us seriously. He was

Speaker 4: really into fashion. He had just set up an LLC,

Speaker 4: and he literally had his entire life ahead of him.

Speaker 4: I mean, dom was twenty years old. I mean that's

Speaker 4: you know, you and I Nancy, that's a little kid

Speaker 4: in his own mind, a young adult, and he had

Speaker 4: everything going as did a Davian. Flat again, I mean

Speaker 4: absolutely everything in front of them, completely stolen and ripped

Speaker 4: out from them. And you know, I felt Christine's pain. Christine,

Speaker 4: I think we'll talk about this. Her father has an

Speaker 4: illness and has not been well since this crash. And Nancy,

Speaker 4: you know better than anybody about the you know, ripple

Speaker 4: effect with victims and their family. And I'm sure, uh

Speaker 4: Davian's family, they are just gutted and crushed and I

Speaker 4: don't know that they will ever be the same.

Speaker 1: Well, to make matters worse, they got to hear.

Speaker 8: This, Tendy. It's on the Today Show. Why girl, I'm

Speaker 8: telling you the biggest plot twist of the century. Right, No, no, no,

Speaker 8: it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're

Speaker 8: just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right,

Speaker 8: that's all right, plot twists, right, that's okay. Write your book,

Speaker 8: Start writing your book. You hear what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Uh, I need to shrink. Doctor Cheryl

Speaker 1: Erp is with us. She is a licensed clinical forensic

Speaker 1: psychologist specializing in trauma. You can find her at askdoctor

Speaker 1: Cheryl dot com. Did you hear the sulky silence? Wait,

Speaker 1: let's hear it one more time? Could you please play

Speaker 1: that one more time? These are tape recordings of the defendant,

Speaker 1: Shrilla behind bars, whining because the Today Show didn't come

Speaker 1: interview her.

Speaker 8: Candy. It's on the Today Show? Why, girl, I'm telling

Speaker 8: you for the biggest flat twist of the century. Right, No, no, no,

Speaker 8: it's not on the TV. It's just online and they're

Speaker 8: just read posting a story. But that's okay, that's okay, right,

Speaker 8: that's all right, flat twist, Right, that's okay. Write your book?

Speaker 8: Aren't writing your book?

Speaker 1: You hear what I'm saying, Doctor Cheryl? Help me.

Speaker 9: What I am hearing is that this mom is walking

Speaker 9: on eggshells with her daughter even while she's confined in prison.

Speaker 9: That this young girl is so volatile and so difficult

Speaker 9: to deal with, that the mom is trying to engage

Speaker 9: and collude with this attention seeking and trying to twist

Speaker 9: this into some kind of positive thing. This is a tragic,

Speaker 9: awful situation. And I'm not seeing any evidence of pots,

Speaker 9: and I don't think pots could cause something like this

Speaker 9: to me. This seems a lot more consistent with a

Speaker 9: very severe form of borderline personality disorder, where people get

Speaker 9: incredibly volatile dysregular related are obsessed with fear of abandonment

Speaker 9: and can get really scary and act out in sometimes

Speaker 9: in really extreme ways when they think that someone is

Speaker 9: going to leave them. And it looks like Don was

Speaker 9: trying to break up with her for a long time,

Speaker 9: and doctor.

Speaker 1: Cheryl Errett, you're not suggesting that she is getting sulky

Speaker 1: about the Today Show? What does she wants to Savannah

Speaker 1: Guthrie to come interview her. Is that what she wants?

Speaker 1: That's not happening. I don't think that's happening anyway. And

Speaker 1: so you're saying this because she feels abandoned.

Speaker 9: I think that she had a lethal temper tantrum because

Speaker 9: she felt abandoned. I think that this happened because Don

Speaker 9: was trying to break.

Speaker 1: Up with her. Feels abandoned. She killed Dominic and Davian exactly,

Speaker 1: so they abandoned her. She killed them. I'm sorry, Are

Speaker 1: you actually saying she had a lethal temper tangent because

Speaker 1: she felt abandoned.

Speaker 9: Yes, I'm saying that because that is a symptom of

Speaker 9: an extreme form of borderline personality disorder, where people get

Speaker 9: desperate and act out when they think that.

Speaker 1: She does not look like she feels abandoned to me,

Speaker 1: she looks like she's high on pot and everything is

Speaker 1: about me. Me, me, me Me. Now, you said personality disorder,

Speaker 1: isn't a narcissistic personality a histrionic personality? Aren't those personality

Speaker 1: disorders as well? Wouldn't they fit her?

Speaker 9: Those are and people can have traits of narcissism and

Speaker 9: the histrionic as well. Absolutely that can exist. She does

Speaker 9: seem incredibly preoccupied with herself, and there is a real

Speaker 9: lack of empathy and awareness for what she has done

Speaker 9: to these young men and their families.

Speaker 1: Abandonment my career and objection, Myra Rand Christine Ruy said,

Speaker 1: will you help me and help you know? Typically I'm

Speaker 1: lock step with doctor Cheryl Eric. I hear what she's saying.

Speaker 1: I agree with it. She verbalizes it perfectly. But Srilla

Speaker 1: did not kill your brother because she was having feelings

Speaker 1: of abandonment.

Speaker 10: I don't know.

Speaker 7: I mean, I really think that. I guess he was

Speaker 7: trying to leave her. So I'm not a doctor. But

Speaker 7: she couldn't let go. And really, I think it was

Speaker 7: because she's so self absorbed. She cared about her image

Speaker 7: so much, about how she was gonna look after. She

Speaker 7: had absolutely no dumb no job, no school, nothing going

Speaker 7: for her. She's just a terrible person. She's the most

Speaker 7: terrible person. But I don't know it's I think she's

Speaker 7: so self absorbed. Just she couldn't she didn't want people

Speaker 7: to think that she was left or like she just

Speaker 7: couldn't let him go. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1: Okay, being angry because your boyfriend is dumping you and

Speaker 1: killing him is a lot different from reacting out of

Speaker 1: feelings of abandonment. Can I just see the videos of

Speaker 1: her again with that big fat bong and that big

Speaker 1: fat doobie. I'm not buying it to Doctor Thomas Coin

Speaker 1: joining us renow medical Examiner out of Tallahassee, Florida, never

Speaker 1: a lack of business at the morgue there. He is

Speaker 1: a toxicologist, forensic pathologist, and neuro pathologist. What happened to

Speaker 1: the victims? Doctor Coin?

Speaker 8: Sure?

Speaker 9: I mean.

Speaker 11: A classic example of a you know, a high velocity

Speaker 11: impact trauma, and so when the vehicle impacted the vehicle

Speaker 11: and as we discussed previously, going in proximately one hundred

Speaker 11: miles an hour. The rear passenger who was unrestrained, unfortunately,

Speaker 11: you know, upon impact and that sudden deceleration, his body

Speaker 11: more than likely would have been thrown forward in the vehicle,

Speaker 11: impacting not only other passengers but the vehicle itself, also

Speaker 11: intrusion of parts of the vehicle into the car and

Speaker 11: so and the front passenger as well. I think most

Speaker 11: of the impact was to that side of the vehicle,

Speaker 11: and so you think about just how much force is

Speaker 11: being applied to the head and neck as well as

Speaker 11: the body, vital organs that are housed in there, our brain,

Speaker 11: our heart, the aorta, and so those structures can tear

Speaker 11: or be crushed very easily with such forces, especially when

Speaker 11: you're going one hundred miles an hour.

Speaker 1: Another thing, they would have known what was about to happen,

Speaker 1: doctor Coin, because they could see what she was doing

Speaker 1: before their death. Absolutely.

Speaker 11: I mean there's nothing to suggest they were unconscious or

Speaker 11: incapacitated prior to impact, and so up until the point

Speaker 11: of impact, they would have certainly been aware of what

Speaker 11: was about to happen.

Speaker 1: Before I go to veteran trial lawyer Derreck Smith. I

Speaker 1: want him to have all the evidence, including this secretly

Speaker 1: recorded phone call.

Speaker 12: Wait, it's all over the world now that today shows

Speaker 12: like national News.

Speaker 8: Okay, I'm going to tell you one more thing. What

Speaker 8: it was published in England? What yeh?

Speaker 12: World News?

Speaker 8: I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all

Speaker 8: their publications. But yeah, the UK. If I'm a Daily

Speaker 8: Mail in the UK.

Speaker 12: Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself.

Speaker 8: That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm hoping we're getting there.

Speaker 8: I was going to do this anyway, so this is.

Speaker 10: Great and they could just reach out to us.

Speaker 9: Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1: Craziness, baby girl, Christine and Resai. Why are they laughing.

Speaker 7: You? Somebody tell me that please. That's It's the most twisted,

Speaker 7: most evil laugh to me that I've ever heard in

Speaker 7: my life. I don't understand why they think this is

Speaker 7: funny or why her being an evil murderer for the

Speaker 7: entire world to see, how that's funny to them? I

Speaker 7: really truly believe, and that's why I'm starting this. The

Speaker 7: doms and Davion's law is that they care so much

Speaker 7: about her becoming famous and popular that that is what

Speaker 7: they're set out to do, and that's what they've always

Speaker 7: cared about. It's always been about becoming Instagram famous, TikTok

Speaker 7: famous for years, even after she killed my brother and Davion,

Speaker 7: she laid in the hospital, but hours after killing two people,

Speaker 7: hours after filming herself making tiktoks and trying her and

Speaker 7: her mother trying to get modeling gigs on Instagram within

Speaker 7: hours after killing people. That's all they care about is fame.

Speaker 7: People talking about them. They think that they're going to

Speaker 7: get the attention of Kim Kardashian and somehow they're going

Speaker 7: to get rich and get out. I think they're completely delusional.

Speaker 1: Straight out to special guest joining us in addition to

Speaker 1: Dom's sister, Christine Rousseau, Cheyenne Topping is with us, and

Speaker 1: this is Shrilla's prison girlfriend for nearly a year. Cheyenne,

Speaker 1: what do you make of what you are seeing and

Speaker 1: hearing tonight?

Speaker 13: I think it's really crazy about like how big of

Speaker 13: this all stuff was, especially coming from the inside and

Speaker 13: seeing it when I got out.

Speaker 1: Tell me how Sharrilla spoke of the murder victims.

Speaker 13: So whenever Mackenzie would speak of Dom or Davian, she

Speaker 13: did speak like really iley of them, which is expected

Speaker 13: of someone going through an appeal trying to get out

Speaker 13: for murder. So I didn't really like tune into it

Speaker 13: to it a lot because I knew it just wasn't genuine.

Speaker 1: Is it true that Shrilla constantly walked the track to

Speaker 1: keep up her figure?

Speaker 13: Yeah, that is true. She also had a race trainer

Speaker 13: that I have no idea where she got it from.

Speaker 13: She must have bought it from one of the pregnant

Speaker 13: girls that came in. She would wear that every day

Speaker 13: in prison too.

Speaker 1: What is that like a race trainer?

Speaker 13: You know? You could wrap it around your uh to

Speaker 13: not to so you're abb them in area, pull it

Speaker 13: tight so it keeps you your hips like more in Okay?

Speaker 1: Good to know. So beside working on her figure behind bars,

Speaker 1: is that so she'll look good when she gets out

Speaker 1: and becomes a star.

Speaker 13: That's what she's planning on. What she was telling me

Speaker 13: in there, She said she was so glad that in

Speaker 13: the crash her face did not get messed up because

Speaker 13: she was going to get a model. She had a

Speaker 13: modeling gig waiting on her when she got out. That

Speaker 13: she was gonna then, wasn't eating the prison food because

Speaker 13: she didn't want it to mess up her figure as well,

Speaker 13: and as you know, the waist trainer and everything. So yes,

Speaker 13: that's what she's planning on.

Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me understand. This guy's joining me

Speaker 1: as a special guest.

Speaker 6: This is.

Speaker 1: Shrilla Mackenzie, Shrilla's girlfriend behind bars nearly a year. What

Speaker 1: modeling gigs did she think she was getting when she

Speaker 1: gets out.

Speaker 13: I guess someone had commented on her Instagram post and

Speaker 13: so they were interested in working with her, which was

Speaker 13: was showed in the documentary. But at the time I

Speaker 13: did not know that because I was still in prison

Speaker 13: and it hadn't dropped yet, but she had mentioned to

Speaker 13: me that she was getting one.

Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand. Did she really believe Kim Kardashian

Speaker 1: was going to come defend her?

Speaker 13: Yeah, she one hundred percent believed that Kim Kardashian's going

Speaker 13: to come and save her, and she was gonna overturn her,

Speaker 13: as she said, wrongly convicted.

Speaker 1: Case, wrongly convicted. Okay, here she is going on behind

Speaker 1: bars about Kim Kardashian.

Speaker 8: My mom is like, well, maybe Kim Kardashian scene, and

Speaker 8: I was.

Speaker 4: Like, oh, yeah, maybe Kim will now that it's like

Speaker 4: all of it.

Speaker 12: I was like, I mean, that's the only thing that

Speaker 12: might be good about the whole media thing. Maybe Kim

Speaker 12: will see it.

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Speaker 12: You have to figure out because I'm real nervous and

Speaker 12: I want Kim Kardashian to be my lawyer.

Speaker 14: She's a lawyer.

Speaker 8: She gets innocent people out of jail.

Speaker 12: Kim work hard, she is miss Kimberly. We're gonna have her,

Speaker 12: get you out.

Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian, don't do it. Don't do it. Okay. Back

Speaker 1: to Cheyenne Topping. So she thinks she's going to be

Speaker 1: a model. She wears a contraption to help her figure.

Speaker 1: She walks the track all the time. Does she ever

Speaker 1: reach out to the victims' families to make amends or

Speaker 1: apologize for what happened.

Speaker 13: Not that I know of. When she was telling me

Speaker 13: and there when I was with her, she told me

Speaker 13: actually that they were all cool and that they were

Speaker 13: coming to court for her to defend her. So I

Speaker 13: was like, because that's one reason why I think, Okay,

Speaker 13: maybe this was an accident. When I was in there

Speaker 13: with her, because she told me the family was siding

Speaker 13: with her.

Speaker 1: Okay, how likely is that, Christine Russo, that you are

Speaker 1: going to try and help her get out of jail.

Speaker 7: There's not a chance in this lifetime, or next or

Speaker 7: the following. There's not even a slight chance that not

Speaker 7: one single person in our family or a distant relative

Speaker 7: would ever do such a thing.

Speaker 1: Yanne Topping, you mentioned that she's absolutely certain she's getting

Speaker 1: a modeling gig when she gets out right.

Speaker 13: Yeah, she truly believes that she is.

Speaker 1: Guys, she is extremely interested in the so called hot felon. Listen.

Speaker 12: I just know I have this feeling that something's gonna happen,

Speaker 12: like with all these people reaching out like it makes

Speaker 12: me feel like, Look, you remember that one guy who

Speaker 12: got arrested for murder and he became like a model,

Speaker 12: Like I watched a movie with him and you did. Yes,

Speaker 12: it's called the Secret Society.

Speaker 8: It's a good as he was arrested for murder, he

Speaker 8: probably didn't even do anything.

Speaker 1: Straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Derek Smith has

Speaker 1: tried a lot of cases and you can find him

Speaker 1: at d W Smith Legal dot com. Derek, Okay, so

Speaker 1: let's just pretend you get a new trial let's just

Speaker 1: pretend which is not gonna happen. Let's just pretend all

Speaker 1: of this is gonna come into evidence, all of these

Speaker 1: phone calls, because the law is the jury can consider

Speaker 1: what happened before, during, and after the event.

Speaker 15: Well, I mean, they're gonna try, I mean, as far

Speaker 15: as the prospect goes to get this in evidence. But

Speaker 15: unfortunately for them, she does have fantastic legal representation. Her

Speaker 15: case is in my home jurisdiction here in Cleveland. I've

Speaker 15: been following it closely since it happened. So they'll do

Speaker 15: their best to try to get all that stuff in.

Speaker 15: But I have a feeling that if that does, you know,

Speaker 15: get remanded for a new trial, that they're not going

Speaker 15: to be able to because it's overly prejudicial. A lot

Speaker 15: of speculation, a lot of back and forth with mom

Speaker 15: and things like that, and her outstanding legal defense will

Speaker 15: make sure that that does not get in.

Speaker 1: Put them up, Derek Smith. When you say it's a

Speaker 1: lot of speculation, it's not speculation as to whether it

Speaker 1: is her on the phone and the mom on the phone,

Speaker 1: So that is not a ground for suppression of these tapes.

Speaker 1: They are speculating about when Savannah Guthrie is going to

Speaker 1: come interview her for the Today Show. That's the only

Speaker 1: speculation going on around here. But wait a minute, hold on,

Speaker 1: listen to this, Derek, and you might as well start

Speaker 1: quickly coming up with something to say.

Speaker 12: Please don't forget to change my Instagram biotry again with

Speaker 12: that one Instagram account and change my name to that.

Speaker 8: Ain't Hayton.

Speaker 12: You're doing something wrong.

Speaker 8: You're doing something wrong, Kendy. That may that may look

Speaker 8: bad right now. Okay, I'll put free Kendy on there,

Speaker 8: but that's gonna look bad.

Speaker 12: Hashtag innocent there, just doing all the hashtags and delete

Speaker 12: my bio.

Speaker 10: Just do the hashtags in my bio, Derek.

Speaker 1: The mom is saying that might look a tiny bit

Speaker 1: bad right now. Really, yeah, it looks bad. It is

Speaker 1: prejudicial because everything she said is like a it's like

Speaker 1: a treasure trove of information for the prosecution to show

Speaker 1: her frame of mind.

Speaker 15: Oh no, absolutely, there's got to be a men's rea,

Speaker 15: you know, to make these charges stick. You know, the intent.

Speaker 15: But in her mind, she's innocent, Nancy. And this case

Speaker 15: is still on appeal, so you know, if this case

Speaker 15: does get remanded back, you got an innocent, got an

Speaker 15: innocent girl in jail that now gets another day in court.

Speaker 15: And unfortunately, I don't think they're gonna be able to

Speaker 15: get some of these calls, any of these things admitted

Speaker 15: into evidence, because it really doesn't have to do with

Speaker 15: the underlying intent for the underlying offense that she was

Speaker 15: convicted of, you know, by a judge. In this case,

Speaker 15: it was tried to the bench. It was not to

Speaker 15: a jury.

Speaker 1: Okay, well, I appreciate that. And somehow, Derek, you've managed

Speaker 1: to spin all that hay into gold yet again. Kat

Speaker 1: Crowder joining me right now, inmate who did time with Shirrilla, Kat,

Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What was she like

Speaker 1: behind bars?

Speaker 14: McKenzie, Shirrilla was completely different than the girl that was

Speaker 14: portrayed in the documentary. She was very similar to these

Speaker 14: videos that we're seeing here, very much, you know, makeup

Speaker 14: done every single day, had her clothes altered to fit

Speaker 14: her tight, hair done, gems in her hair, very girly

Speaker 14: and attention seeking. Look at me, look at me, Look

Speaker 14: at me.

Speaker 1: Okay. I want you to listen to her making another

Speaker 1: demand to her mother, demanding she wants her iPad. That's

Speaker 1: the last thing that Jill wants is to hear somebody's

Speaker 1: mommy whining that their killer daughter doesn't have an iPad.

Speaker 12: Listen, I really want my iPad though here.

Speaker 8: They have any idea when they're going to bring it

Speaker 8: to you? Do you have any idea?

Speaker 12: I'm about to ask can you call and ask please? Please?

Speaker 8: Because that's because blessed than I called about your thing.

Speaker 8: They were like, if I do that and that's special treatment,

Speaker 8: she you know you'll get it way you get it.

Speaker 1: Why has anybody on this panel ever heard of pig Latin?

Speaker 1: My name is auntcy Nay Race Gray. Okay, you a

Speaker 1: on the end of every word. Okay, These two spoke

Speaker 1: in code I E. Pig Latin.

Speaker 10: Listen hear we do the eating easier fuser?

Speaker 8: Oh god, oh my god?

Speaker 1: Is right?

Speaker 10: Yes, it's either we don't need to shed like she

Speaker 10: didn't even need it far readrate, which one we don't

Speaker 10: be easily get? Either mean them.

Speaker 8: Great expeak like that, you know, like we don't forget.

Speaker 8: Don't forget? You said, Can I say it out? Can

Speaker 8: I say it return? Just to make sure I can

Speaker 8: talk right, you're saying rape, you know, don't forget? That

Speaker 8: might not be what really happened. She's being accused of that.

Speaker 8: Eve either be the leading Peter right, because those people

Speaker 8: say that all the time to get other people in trouble.

Speaker 8: Will you see that's happening to you?

Speaker 1: What is old Cat Crowder joining me in May? Who

Speaker 1: did time with Shririlla? What is she doing?

Speaker 14: I mean, I have absolutely no idea. You know, there's

Speaker 14: been a lot of speculation about what that language is,

Speaker 14: from Gypsy to pig Latin, all these things. I think

Speaker 14: it's just mind blowing how fast and quickly they understand

Speaker 14: what each other are saying, because I can't even begin

Speaker 14: to dissect that. When I was incarcerated with her, I

Speaker 14: personally never heard her speak in that language.

Speaker 8: Black girl like crazy.

Speaker 12: Ooh, remember, don't drive because that's murder if you drive

Speaker 12: with that.

Speaker 8: I mean, for real, right, that's so wrong?

Speaker 12: And do you put that on your license?

Speaker 8: I should really update my We have one minute left.

Speaker 8: There's people with epilepsy.

Speaker 14: Good.

Speaker 8: You do not have to put that on your license

Speaker 8: that you have epilepsy like litteral epilepsy.

Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand what I'm hearing. Joel Waldman is

Speaker 1: joining US co hostar Surviving the survivor. She's now trying

Speaker 1: to claim that she blacked out and that's what happened.

Speaker 1: Then how did she keep her foot on the gas?

Speaker 5: Yeah?

Speaker 4: I mean this family. The more I'm listening to all

Speaker 4: these clips you're playing, Nancy, and I've heard bits and

Speaker 4: pieces of a lot of them, they're simply pathological. You know,

Speaker 4: I'll give you a diagnosis. And I'm not a lawyer.

Speaker 4: I'm not a psychologist, but my dad may rest in

Speaker 4: peace with a psychiatrist. He'd call her a spoiled brat.

Speaker 4: And it's just to a level that I have never

Speaker 4: ever seen before. You know, after the fact, they're now

Speaker 4: claiming she had this respiratory illness, pots that she had

Speaker 4: had these blackouts. But look this went and Nancy, this

Speaker 4: is your wheelhouse. This went to a trial. They chose

Speaker 4: a bench trial, meaning a judge and not a jury

Speaker 4: of her peers, and she was convicted on twelve pounds.

Speaker 4: I had someone on my show tweet at me saying, oh,

Speaker 4: you're only showing one side of the story. I don't

Speaker 4: see a second side of this story. Here would I

Speaker 4: interview the Shirrillas. Yeah, but I think they raised a

Speaker 4: bad seed. I don't know if it was you know,

Speaker 4: nature or nurture, but there is something massively wrong with

Speaker 4: this family all around.

Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of the conversations we've gotten

Speaker 1: on tape.

Speaker 8: People are very into like people that are in jail,

Speaker 8: especially a few people that they think we're cute. Would

Speaker 8: just be careful and I'm cute a and.

Speaker 12: I'm not looking for any relationships.

Speaker 16: Got some really orange.

Speaker 12: I'm like the prettiest person here, Like I feel that

Speaker 12: I even saying that, But I.

Speaker 8: Wonder if you like it's community shower on the other

Speaker 8: levels too.

Speaker 16: Oh no, I don't care, like I'm scared.

Speaker 8: Scared to shower, right yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Kat Crowder joining us inmate who did

Speaker 1: time with Mackenzie Shirilla, I'm like the prettiest one here.

Speaker 1: I'm afraid to get in a shower. Really was everybody

Speaker 1: that focused on her, you.

Speaker 14: Know, in the grand retrospect, everybody that we were in

Speaker 14: curs here with. When you get into general population or

Speaker 14: if you've been there, you knew what she was in

Speaker 14: there for. It is a high profile case and prison

Speaker 14: is a gossip mill, so you did find out quickly.

Speaker 14: And I do think that she thrived off of the

Speaker 14: fact that everyone knew that this is Mackenzie Shrilla. Now

Speaker 14: where the inmates phased by her?

Speaker 1: No?

Speaker 14: I mean there's hundreds of people. We've got the microwave mom.

Speaker 14: We got all the people in there that are there

Speaker 14: for high profile cases that have been on the news,

Speaker 14: that you know are there, but they don't necessarily carry

Speaker 14: themselves in the same way that Mackenzie did. It was

Speaker 14: almost as if she wanted to be a socialite of prison,

Speaker 14: which is just wild.

Speaker 1: Is this your recollection of her that it's all about

Speaker 1: her even behind bars? Forget the victims, It's about her

Speaker 1: getting on the Today Show, It's about her Instagram account,

Speaker 1: It's about her being the quote cutest one behind bars?

Speaker 1: Was that your experience with her?

Speaker 9: Cat Crowder, I'm one hundred percent, you know.

Speaker 14: While I was in there and I kind of proclaimed

Speaker 14: myself as a very girly girl, I could never get

Speaker 14: the energy to wake up at six o'clock in the

Speaker 14: morning and put on a full face of makeup and

Speaker 14: do my hair, because one, I'm sitting in prison. In two,

Speaker 14: who am I trying to look good for? These This

Speaker 14: is not a club or a school dance or something

Speaker 14: of the sorts, so it gave off, you know, like

Speaker 14: I want this attention. I think I'm holier than now.

Speaker 14: I'm the Mackenzie shrilla. And she walked the yard every

Speaker 14: single day all day long. She went to the gym,

Speaker 14: she went line dancing, that she went to all the classes,

Speaker 14: and it was almost as if she was treating it

Speaker 14: like a popularity contest.

Speaker 1: You know, that personality it's all about me, is not

Speaker 1: going to help anything at a retrial. There is no

Speaker 1: way this woman could ever get on the stand Derek Smith.

Speaker 15: Oh no, she again. As you know, she has a

Speaker 15: right not to take the stand, and she didn't the

Speaker 15: first time. So I don't anticipate if this does get

Speaker 15: remanded for another one, for anything to change in that regard.

Speaker 15: But it is her constitutional right if she wants to

Speaker 15: get up there and speak her mind, speak her peace

Speaker 15: about you know, what she thinks were the events leading

Speaker 15: up to this tragic event. She has every right to

Speaker 15: do that. But I'm pretty sure her excellent legal team

Speaker 15: we'll talk some sense in her about that.

Speaker 1: I love what you just said, Derek Smith. She can

Speaker 1: get on the stand and say what she thinks happen

Speaker 1: in her own mind, which is not what happened at all. Okay,

Speaker 1: hold on, when we wonder why someone behaves this way

Speaker 1: where everything is about them, have you ever heard the

Speaker 1: phrase the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Speaker 16: I hope I'm gonna comes back and place everybody that's

Speaker 16: against you and so hard that they all disappear. That's

Speaker 16: all I said. And if I had a magic wand

Speaker 16: if I had a magic wand I wouldn't go back

Speaker 16: and help Beatian first, I'd make everybody else together, I

Speaker 16: cut my fingers and everybody would disappear. That's that's what

Speaker 16: I would doings That's how that's how angry I am.

Speaker 16: They they screwed you so bad.

Speaker 1: Doctor ryl Eric joining us. They're feeding the monster. Newbody

Speaker 1: has ever said what you did was wrong. You're going

Speaker 1: to jail for this, and when you get out, hopefully

Speaker 1: you can start over. Well, they're feeding her this line

Speaker 1: that it's she's the one that's the victim.

Speaker 9: You are so right, and right now my heart is

Speaker 9: breaking for Christine listening to this right now. They are

Speaker 9: feeding the monster. This is an extraordinarily abusive person. This

Speaker 9: was a violent person. And you know what, a lot

Speaker 9: of the time, most of the time. This is easier

Speaker 9: to see when it's the guy who is the abuser

Speaker 9: and he is controlling and threatening to break things and

Speaker 9: threatening to violence and all of this if the girl leaves.

Speaker 9: You have seen a million cases where it's if I

Speaker 9: can't have you, no one can. This family is completely

Speaker 9: wrapped up in themselves, but it's like nobody else matters that.

Speaker 1: Yes, that is also.

Speaker 9: Narcissism, but this is violence, power and control, intimate partner violence.

Speaker 9: But the abuser was her, and when she was threatened

Speaker 9: with being rejected and him leaving, which as we know,

Speaker 9: is the most dangerous time in a domestic violence relationship,

Speaker 9: that's when the partner is trying to leave is most

Speaker 9: likely to be killed. I gotta double down, Nancy. This

Speaker 9: is that kind of situation where she acted out in

Speaker 9: a way. Maybe she intended also to go with them,

Speaker 9: but she pulled out all the stops literally, and there's

Speaker 9: some evidence that the boys may have tried to pull

Speaker 9: the car out of gear and do something to stop this.

Speaker 9: But this was an absolutely horrific acting outrage. And now

Speaker 9: that the family is trying to make it seem like

Speaker 9: she's the victim, maybe they can parlay this into some

Speaker 9: kind of fame, and it's it's it's appalling.

Speaker 1: To Christine Russo, Dominic's sister star off the Big Sister

Speaker 1: Unhinged podcast, creating and curating her brother's legacy. I'd like

Speaker 1: to hear your response to everything we've just said guests tonight.

Speaker 7: Honestly, I'm really I'm happy that you guys in the

Speaker 7: world are seeing through her and that I don't have

Speaker 7: to sit here and my family doesn't have to sit

Speaker 7: here and suffer ourselves like we have been for four years.

Speaker 7: Because this the movie just came out. We've been dealing

Speaker 7: with this for quite some time now. Since the second

Speaker 7: she was arrested. If you know, it was immediate, immediate,

Speaker 7: just denial, no remorse, no accountability, victim shaming, blaming you know,

Speaker 7: my parents, these shrillas have not stopped. Uh, They've been

Speaker 7: doing interviews this week where they're still blaming my brother

Speaker 7: for his death or blaming my parents. So I'm actually

Speaker 7: kind of I'm glad to see that the world sees

Speaker 7: through her and who she truly is. I really hope

Speaker 7: with what you know this coming out. I've tried to

Speaker 7: make something anything positive out of this tragedy by doing

Speaker 7: the domind Davion's Law or the foundation that I started

Speaker 7: for him, just trying to make something anything positive to

Speaker 7: turn this into. But I'm glad that the world sees

Speaker 7: her now for who she is.

Speaker 1: So Christine, I'm glad you brought up dom and Davian's

Speaker 1: law because many states have son of Sam law, not

Speaker 1: all of them, which precludes you from profiting off of

Speaker 1: your crime. Not all states have that. I don't even

Speaker 1: know if it's half the country, but social media has

Speaker 1: far outpaced what Son of Sam laws protect what they do,

Speaker 1: and the law must be updated to address social media

Speaker 1: fame or that type of enrichment. What is dom and

Speaker 1: Davian's law.

Speaker 7: It's just the modernization of the Son of Sam. So,

Speaker 7: like you said, it was written. I think they came

Speaker 7: up with that in the seventy where just cover journals, movies,

Speaker 7: and like news deals. Now with the digital era, you

Speaker 7: have social media Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, there's go fund me

Speaker 7: set out. She's been getting thousands of dollars in donations.

Speaker 7: By the way, they've set up different accounts. This will

Speaker 7: help protect different loopholes so that victims don't have to

Speaker 7: watch somebody who killed their loved ones, get attention, fame fortune. Basically,

Speaker 7: I'm trying to prevent her from becoming gypsy ros. The

Speaker 7: next gypsy rows and it is a it's just a

Speaker 7: modernization of that and to stop her or her family

Speaker 7: from finding loopholes and having her benefit off of my

Speaker 7: brothers and Davion's death.

Speaker 1: Dom and Davian's Law. Every state could benefit from that.

Speaker 1: We remember American hero Corporal Very Fast, Arlington County, p Date, Virginia.

Speaker 1: He passed way from cancer after nine eleven. He endured

Speaker 1: September eleven after thirty seven years on the force. He

Speaker 1: loves behind his wife Karen and his daughter Natalie. American

Speaker 1: hero Corporal Barry Faust. Thank you to our guest, but

Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing

Speaker 1: off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and

Speaker 1: until then, good night, friend,

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