Charlie Kirk Assassin "Furry" Lover's DNA on "Gun Towel," Claim
Lots of new information coming from Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing. The defense is disputing DNA evidence saying investigative reports note Robinson's roommate/lover DNA was on the towel and screwdriver found at the murder scene.
Prosecutors unveiled new videos on which traced Robinson's movement across campus, show that he made contact with Charlie Kirk's group before the event.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy
- Dr. Shari Schwartz - Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy),Author: "Criminal Behavior" Author: "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology," Website: panthermitigation.com, X: @TrialDoc
- James Hamilton - Former FBI Special Agent and Founder of the Hamilton Security Group
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,
- Nate Eaton - News Director, East Idaho News, Emmy-nominated journalist. Host: 'Courtroom Insider' on YouTube
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, "Crime Stories"
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Speaker 1: Bombshell.
Speaker 2: Tonight, straight out of the Charlie Kirk Assassin Hearings, the
Speaker 2: so called assassin's furry lovers DNA on the gun towel.
Speaker 2: According to claims, Wait a minute, we learned that the
Speaker 2: long gun allegedly used in the shooting of Charlie Kirk
Speaker 2: was covered with a towel likely drenched with DNA. Now
Speaker 2: we learn that DNA allegedly belongs to the defendant, Tyler
Speaker 2: Robinson's roommate, Mail roommate. The DNA is his roommates. As tonight,
Speaker 2: another defense attorney's dream comes true.
Speaker 1: A mystery mixture.
Speaker 2: Of DNA on the so called gun towel, the towel
Speaker 2: that was to drape the alleged murder weapon. Mystery DNA
Speaker 2: on it, that brings up the specter of another shooter.
Speaker 2: Good evening, I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories.
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3: There was video being shown in the hearing of Charlie
Speaker 3: Kirk being shot.
Speaker 2: The defendant, Tyler Robinson was smirking and laughing, and a
Speaker 2: few feet away, mister Kirk's widow, Erica was sobbing.
Speaker 4: You know what's funny?
Speaker 5: Do you find this funny.
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's dead body shot through the neck.
Speaker 4: Was there a screwdriver that was collected from that rooftop?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: Is there a wooded area that's northeast of campus.
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: What was found in that wooded area?
Speaker 6: Well, it was found there was a long gun that
Speaker 6: was wrapped in a dark colored towel.
Speaker 4: So the gun went to the ATF lab. Is that correct? Yes,
Speaker 4: the towel went to the FBI lab. Yes, And the
Speaker 4: screwdriver went to the FBI lab.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 4: Did you receive reports back from testing that had been
Speaker 4: done on those items?
Speaker 7: Yes?
Speaker 2: I did that video from inside the courtroom from our
Speaker 2: friends at East Idaho News straight out to Nate Eaton,
Speaker 2: joining US news director East Idaho News and star of
Speaker 2: courtroom insider Nate Eaton. A defense attorney's sweetest dream comes true?
Speaker 2: Is it true that on the so called gun towel,
Speaker 2: the towel that was draping the elegited murder weapon. A
Speaker 2: scientist at the lab states that there was three sources
Speaker 2: distinct sources of DNA on the towel.
Speaker 3: She said Nancy her very first report when she first
Speaker 3: tested it, that there was likely or could have been
Speaker 3: resources of BNA from three separate people.
Speaker 2: But hold on, Nate eat, let me understand what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2: The scientist writes three sources of d in a Joe
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan joining US renowned death investigator, Professor forensics, Jacksonville
Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
Speaker 2: star of a hit podcast Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan,
Speaker 2: but death investigator with over ten thousand death sines under
Speaker 2: his belt. Do you understand the bombshell?
Speaker 8: Nate Ate and just reported, Yes, I do that there
Speaker 8: was a thought that there would be a third contributor.
Speaker 2: And wait a minute, Joe Scott Morgan, hold on. Philip
Speaker 2: Dubay is apparently chomping at the bit, and I know why.
Speaker 2: Philip Dubay is a veteran trial lawyer out of La
Speaker 2: County Public Defender's Office. Philip Dubay has tried more cases
Speaker 2: than many lawyers ever dream about. Let me explain, A
Speaker 2: trial lawyer is a different breed.
Speaker 1: We're not house pets.
Speaker 2: We're not sitting behind the desk researching in a musty
Speaker 2: court house looking through files of wheels and deeds. We're
Speaker 2: in the arena, dirty, sweaty bloody, but yet still fighting. Dubay,
Speaker 2: why are you so happy about right now?
Speaker 9: Because I get to show a couple of things. First
Speaker 9: of all, that this was a framed job, that he's
Speaker 9: been railroaded, and that there's a third party culprit that's
Speaker 9: still on the lamb. It is no coincidence that somebody
Speaker 9: else's DNA is on that towels because somebody else did
Speaker 9: it who may have had a connection to Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 9: What a perfect way to throw Tyler under the bus
Speaker 9: and make him face the firing squad and all marksmen
Speaker 9: rather than the true culprit.
Speaker 2: Look at the video, please look look how many people
Speaker 2: do you see right there, Philip Dubay? I see one.
Speaker 2: I don't see a crowd. This isn't a cocktail party.
Speaker 2: There's no rave going on on top of the low
Speaker 2: Ce building. There's one person there, one towel covering one
Speaker 2: gun this video. What am I supposed to believe? You
Speaker 2: are my lying eyes? That's from sharp man onyx. What
Speaker 2: about a dobet you or my lying eyes?
Speaker 9: I only need one jur to say that your eyes
Speaker 9: are lying, and it could be one of those so
Speaker 9: called conspiracy theorists or one who feels that the prosecution
Speaker 9: is not proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt. A
Speaker 9: jury should not have to guess, surmise, or speculate. The
Speaker 9: evidence should be rock solid pointing to one person. Otherwise,
Speaker 9: defendants should be joint in each other charage and tried
Speaker 9: together before the same jury. But when you're trying to
Speaker 9: pin it on one person and the evidence is not
Speaker 9: conclusively presumptive of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, that's called
Speaker 9: a not guilty.
Speaker 2: Well, Philip Dubay, you may actually have a following. We
Speaker 2: see someone trying to cast blame on a cameraman that's
Speaker 2: just standing there that had absolutely nothing to do with
Speaker 2: the shooting of Charlie Kirk. The conspiracy theories are running rampant,
Speaker 2: and Philip Dbay, if you have your way, you're going
Speaker 2: to have grrs feeding into this craziness. That's what you want,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 9: Of course it's what I want, because remember what I
Speaker 9: said earlier, I only need one to sway the jury
Speaker 9: or to hang the jury. I don't need all twelve.
Speaker 9: It would be nice so he doesn't have to face
Speaker 9: a retrial. But the truth be told, there is in
Speaker 9: evidence now a third party culprit at large. This is
Speaker 9: not just speculative, Nancy. What you have is a third
Speaker 9: party's DNA on a towel that was purportedly wrapped around
Speaker 9: the murder weapon. Now, whether or not you want to
Speaker 9: believe that all three were involved, that may well be.
Speaker 9: But the state's theory is that Tyler Robinson was the
Speaker 9: sole perp in this homicide. But the evidence belies that,
Speaker 9: and a jury needs to have the full clear picture
Speaker 9: of all the evidence and not just a one sided
Speaker 9: glimpse into it. And when you have this third party
Speaker 9: out there that's basically getting away with it, juries don't
Speaker 9: like it. They don't want the underdog to take the
Speaker 9: fall for the real killer's crime.
Speaker 1: You know who you sound like?
Speaker 2: You sound like f Leate Bailey and Johnny Conchran talking
Speaker 2: about the real killer, Nate Ayton joining US news director
Speaker 2: East Idaho News, who has combed over every word heard
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. Then we have a big erase, erase,
Speaker 2: Jurassic erase from the scientist.
Speaker 1: What happened well.
Speaker 3: In her preliminary report, she said that there were likely
Speaker 3: three samples or could have been three different people. Within days,
Speaker 3: she changed it to two after further testing, further analysis,
Speaker 3: it was two people's DNA, and those people Tyler Robinson
Speaker 3: and Lance Twiggs, his roommate who his romantic interest, the
Speaker 3: one that he was texting with allegedly saying that he
Speaker 3: had done it, that he had killed Charlie Kirk. All
Speaker 3: of those postings that we saw about not only that
Speaker 3: Nancy his DNA, the roommate's DNA was also found on
Speaker 3: the screwdriver that was on top of the roof. And
Speaker 3: the chances that anybody else's DNA was not these two,
Speaker 3: the scientists said it would be like one in a million,
Speaker 3: one in a billion. There definitely was their DNA on
Speaker 3: these two pieces of evidence.
Speaker 1: Let's go straight into the courtroom.
Speaker 6: The DNA results from item seven some one and what
Speaker 6: are one point seven o tillian times more likely of
Speaker 6: Twigs and t Robinson are contributors than if twigs in
Speaker 6: an unknown unrelated person are contributors.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Let's skip down to item eight one, and
Speaker 4: this is relating to swabs of the handle area of
Speaker 4: the screwdriver.
Speaker 5: Yes, will you.
Speaker 4: Read those same two paragraphs there?
Speaker 6: Male DNA was obtained from item eight sub one. Item
Speaker 6: eight sub one was interpreted as originating from two individuals,
Speaker 6: one of whom is Twigs. The DNA results from item
Speaker 6: eight sub one are thirty quintillion times more likely if
Speaker 6: Twigs and t Robinson are contributors than if Twigs and
Speaker 6: an unknown unrelated person are contributors.
Speaker 2: We heard Nate Eighton from East Idaho News explain that,
Speaker 2: but Joe Scott Morgan, can you boil it down even further?
Speaker 2: One point eight otillion times more likely that the now
Speaker 2: two DNA contributors are Twigs, the romantic interest, the alleged furry.
Speaker 1: Neither here nor there?
Speaker 2: And Tyler Robinson, Oh there, he is dressed in an
Speaker 2: animal outfit. I don't care if he's a furry. That
Speaker 2: means nothing to me. I have put every imaginable witness
Speaker 2: on the stan Joe Scott from nuns, priests, virgens, strippers, prostitutes,
Speaker 2: you name, It doesn't matter. They can all see here
Speaker 2: and explain what they observed to a jury.
Speaker 1: I don't care if he's a furry. That said the
Speaker 1: DNA explain what we know?
Speaker 2: Is Nate Eaton correct the DNA on the gun towel,
Speaker 2: as it is being called, the towel that was wrapping
Speaker 2: up the alleged murder weapon has two DNAs on it,
Speaker 2: Twigs the furry roommate and Tyler Robinson, the defendant.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: And what is one point eight it til he didn't
Speaker 2: have to do with anything.
Speaker 8: Well, it's talking about the percentage, the probability that it
Speaker 8: could be anyone else, and Nancy, just to frame this out,
Speaker 8: they also use the word the term quintillion as well,
Speaker 8: which is even further out there. Nancy, this is this
Speaker 8: calculation is more people than have ever existed on the
Speaker 8: face of the planet. Just kind of wrap your brain
Speaker 8: around that that it could be anybody else other than them.
Speaker 8: And here's the one thing that kind of bolsters this
Speaker 8: argument from me is that these two individuals are allegedly
Speaker 8: in an intimate relationship. That means that they share a
Speaker 8: common space with one another. These are not just two
Speaker 8: random people that were out there. And for everybody that's
Speaker 8: thinking about, well, maybe his DNA was planted there, Okay,
Speaker 8: well okay, let's go with that. So you acquired both
Speaker 8: his DNA and this partner's DNA as well in a
Speaker 8: grand conspiracy to frame both of them. It's almost it
Speaker 8: breaches into the absurd. At this point in time.
Speaker 2: Back in the court room on the stand, Amanda Baker
Speaker 2: from Quantico.
Speaker 10: Well, why did you think that Twiggs was someone who's
Speaker 10: DNA you would expect in those two samples.
Speaker 11: So, from what I recall in speaking with the investigators,
Speaker 11: mister Twiggs was a roommate of mister Robinson, and it
Speaker 11: was thought that those items came from potentially mister Robinson's home.
Speaker 1: And I don't.
Speaker 11: Recall exactly if it was a situation where particular TAWE
Speaker 11: was known to have been in that house. I don't
Speaker 11: remember that exactly, but in talking to the investigators, based
Speaker 11: on their investigation, it was important to assume potentially mister
Speaker 11: Twiggs was present.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 10: Did any investigator ever tell you that the towel did
Speaker 10: not come from mister Robinson's home but was found in
Speaker 10: a bush out at the university.
Speaker 12: I was aware of that us, so you knew.
Speaker 10: That that towel was not found in a place where
Speaker 10: you would inspect mister Twiggs's DNA to be present.
Speaker 11: That is correct, it was found outside of my home.
Speaker 11: But again, based on speaking with the investigators, they had
Speaker 11: information to suspect that that towel came from mister Robinson's home.
Speaker 11: And I should utilize mister Twigs as an elimination.
Speaker 2: East Idaho News inside the courtroom. Back to Nate Eaton
Speaker 2: joining us, and he's director from East Idaho News. The
Speaker 2: towel was not found, was not taken from the home.
Speaker 2: It was out on a bush where it had been
Speaker 2: discarded along the same exact route Tyler Robinson took from
Speaker 2: the Lowcie building where he was perched up on top
Speaker 2: at the time of the shooting.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: That's correct. And a lot of people, Nancy have said,
Speaker 3: why did he have a towel, Why did he need
Speaker 3: a towel? Well, he obviously had his grandfathers done allegedly
Speaker 3: which long which was noticeable. A rifle. You're gonna want
Speaker 3: to cover that up, and so you would assume that
Speaker 3: he wrapped it in the towel. Maybe he put it
Speaker 3: down his pants. There's video out there of him limping
Speaker 3: that maybe there's some thought that he could have had
Speaker 3: it in his pants. He was hobbling along and then
Speaker 3: he discarded both the gun and the towel that he
Speaker 3: wouldn't have either one of them on his person.
Speaker 2: Notice how he's walking with a limp Okay, what because
Speaker 2: he's got the gun stuck down his leg.
Speaker 1: CoA.
Speaker 2: Lor Moore told us yesterday you couldn't break that gun down.
Speaker 2: Look at the limp, for Pete's sake. I mean, he's
Speaker 2: like Quasimodo. Look, okay, soak it in. Soak it in,
Speaker 2: just like the jury's going to do. From our friends
Speaker 2: at TMZ. And here is the defendant, presumed innocent, jumping
Speaker 2: down after the shooting and scurrying away running across campus. Okay,
Speaker 2: there we go, yes, running running, running like a young gazelle.
Speaker 1: Okay, Philip, do bay? What happened to the limp?
Speaker 9: Just because you don't see him limping while running doesn't
Speaker 9: mean he doesn't have a hitch in his get along?
Speaker 9: You got to see him when he's let.
Speaker 2: Me see him actually saying this just because again you
Speaker 2: want me to not believe my two lion eyes and
Speaker 2: believe you did you say, just because I can't see
Speaker 2: him limping doesn't mean he doesn't have a what a hitch?
Speaker 1: And his what it is?
Speaker 9: Get along? Meaning that he's not limping when he walks.
Speaker 9: Distinguish how you move when you walk from when you run,
Speaker 9: And I think a jury can make that distinction, assuming
Speaker 9: that that's.
Speaker 1: Even getting me. Did you say his get along?
Speaker 9: It's an old expression. It comes from your parts from
Speaker 9: the South. I think it was coined by Tennessee Ernie Ford.
Speaker 2: Actually, Okay, please let's leave him out of this. Okay,
Speaker 2: that said, Nate, I want to all of Philip Dubay's
Speaker 2: get along aside, Nate Eaton. I want to go back
Speaker 2: to the DNA because this is critical. You know what
Speaker 2: a stink bomb. This is going to be in the
Speaker 2: courtroom for the state when it comes out that the
Speaker 2: DNA scientists said at one juncture there was three contributors
Speaker 2: to the DNA on the gun towel. The defense is
Speaker 2: going to have a field day with that. But I
Speaker 2: want to clarify something you told me, Nate, that she
Speaker 2: first wrote three possible contributors in her preliminary notes, in
Speaker 2: her notes. That's just like when I'm preparing a case
Speaker 2: and I'm reading along and I write, Okay, defendant lived
Speaker 2: at this address. Then I find out later that's the
Speaker 2: wrong address, and I corrected. Those are my notes, my
Speaker 2: work notes. Tell me where she wrote three DNA canes.
Speaker 3: This was in her original report. Here's the interesting thing
Speaker 3: about this, Nancy, this is a preliminary hearing where the
Speaker 3: prosecution has to show the judge there's enough evidence that
Speaker 3: Tyler Robinson likely did this. The defense flew in this
Speaker 3: witness from Quantico, put her on the stand for three
Speaker 3: hours to try to disprove that the DNA is valid.
Speaker 3: They want the DNA thrown out. They're trying to show
Speaker 3: the judge that DNA should be brought should not be
Speaker 3: brought into this case. Personally, I've never seen anything like
Speaker 3: this at a preliminary hearing where the defense attorney went
Speaker 3: through the history of the lab, went through the history
Speaker 3: of DNA and told this Quantico FBI expert that this
Speaker 3: DNA shouldn't be counted one because you originally said that
Speaker 3: there were three contributors, and two because there may have
Speaker 3: been some flaws in the testing.
Speaker 2: So those notes then turned into her report and her
Speaker 2: final report. Nate eaton how many DNA contributors does she say?
Speaker 1: We're on the towel.
Speaker 3: Two Lance Twigs, the roommate, and Tyler Robinson, the defendant.
Speaker 3: Lance Twigs has not been charged. We are expected to
Speaker 3: hear from him in this hearing on a recorded statement.
Speaker 3: He has not been charged and has been given a
Speaker 3: limited immunity deal, so it will be fascinated to hear
Speaker 3: what he has to say, and they may well have
Speaker 3: asked him, did you touch the towel, did you touch
Speaker 3: the screwdriver? How did your DNA get on this? And
Speaker 3: that can lead to some further clarification about the Vietnam.
Speaker 9: Two.
Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining US forensic psychologists specializing in capital mitigation.
Speaker 2: She's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and
Speaker 2: Psychology intersect. You can find her at panthermitigation dot com.
Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry. All it takes is one yourr to buy
Speaker 2: into the mystery DNA claim that will be made by
Speaker 2: the defense.
Speaker 13: Yes, that's correct. It just takes one to at least
Speaker 13: hang a jury. If they have a particularly strong personality,
Speaker 13: they may be able to convince the other jurors that
Speaker 13: they don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this
Speaker 13: particular defendant committed the crime. So the conspiracy theories can
Speaker 13: be very damaging.
Speaker 2: Straight out to James Hamilton joining US. Former FBI special agent,
Speaker 2: founder of the Hamilton Security Group. He created the FBI's
Speaker 2: Close Protection School. It trains agents for high stakes protection detail.
Speaker 2: He served on the FBI Director's Protective Detail, FBI Swat Team,
Speaker 2: FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force Coordinator.
Speaker 1: He was a senior VP AT.
Speaker 2: Gavin de Beckeren associates now with the Hamilton Security Group.
Speaker 1: James.
Speaker 2: Now, the conspiracy theories are attacking the law enforcement and
Speaker 2: security guards there at the time. They are claiming because
Speaker 2: of them, because there was not enough security guards present.
Speaker 2: It's somehow their fault. They didn't catch the real shooter.
Speaker 2: What does this mean to you?
Speaker 1: Is it just noise?
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's always gaps in security. It's American culture with
Speaker 7: regards to assassinations. There's always been gaps, and assassins have
Speaker 7: always taken advantage of those gaps, as we see in
Speaker 7: this case. And there's no one absolute security environment, especially
Speaker 7: someone like analyst Kirk, who was very approachable and wanted
Speaker 7: to be out in the public, and the assassin took
Speaker 7: advantage of it. No different than when the cop left Lincoln,
Speaker 7: No different than Kennedy being in the convertible that day
Speaker 7: when it's supposed to be in hard car. No different
Speaker 7: than Reagan v and outside in eighty one. The assassin's
Speaker 7: take advantage gaps, and that's what happened here in the
Speaker 7: defense is trying to make an issue of it.
Speaker 2: To Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave,
Speaker 2: what is the claim that somehow all of this is
Speaker 2: because of lack of security?
Speaker 14: Three thousand people showed up for an event where the
Speaker 14: school had only prepared for about six hundred, and that
Speaker 14: is a claim that is being pushed forward that it
Speaker 14: was a lack of security that allowed this to happen,
Speaker 14: that there should have been more there than was actually present.
Speaker 14: And again, this was a promoted event, Nancy. You could
Speaker 14: look at the history of what Charlie Kirk's events drew
Speaker 14: and know that it was going to be more than
Speaker 14: six hundred people. But they didn't plan on it properly.
Speaker 14: And so that's why they have that to fall back
Speaker 14: on now, to blame it on a lack of purity
Speaker 14: that caused these lapses to take place.
Speaker 2: What do you mean by the lapses that took place?
Speaker 14: Well, okay, you have a guy that is able to
Speaker 14: get up on a rooftop and lay down prone and
Speaker 14: shoot Charlie Kirk, and there was nobody watching the rooftops, Nancy.
Speaker 14: They didn't have the proper security to take care of
Speaker 14: the perimeter, to take care of Charlie Kirk and his security.
Speaker 14: This is a guy who has a lot of negative attention.
Speaker 14: There are people that really don't like for him to talk,
Speaker 14: and there was nobody watching out, not just in back
Speaker 14: of him, but in front of him. So that's the
Speaker 14: laps I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: The security lapses, as Dave Mack has just called it
Speaker 2: coming up in court.
Speaker 12: Do you know how many UVU officers you guys employ
Speaker 12: normally employed?
Speaker 5: There was fifteen.
Speaker 12: And do you know how many were assigned to cover
Speaker 12: that event that day.
Speaker 5: That were signed to cover it? There was six of
Speaker 5: us that were there was patrol one and then five
Speaker 5: others that was there.
Speaker 12: With the chief. If you all have an idea there
Speaker 12: were going to be thousands and thousands of people. There
Speaker 12: was that a surprise to you had an idea and
Speaker 12: you only had five officers? Yes, six, I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 12: counting you as thinking.
Speaker 2: From inside the courtroom from East Idaho News. So there
Speaker 2: you see the agent David Hull being grilled barbecued on
Speaker 2: the stand as if somehow that's the reason Charlie Kirk
Speaker 2: was assassinated. Will a jury fall for it? Well, whatever
Speaker 2: the claims against the law enforcement.
Speaker 1: That was there that day.
Speaker 2: They managed to get something very right, and that is
Speaker 2: capturing an image of the allegitutor.
Speaker 12: As of the eleventh, before mister Robinson turned himself in,
Speaker 12: you all had not been able to determine that is
Speaker 12: that right?
Speaker 5: Excuse me? Determine who he was or determined distinguishing features.
Speaker 12: Determined distinguishing features of the video of the person on
Speaker 12: the roof.
Speaker 5: Yes, we had a person of interest and those images
Speaker 5: were released to the press.
Speaker 12: You talking about the ones in the stairwell from the correct,
Speaker 12: from the parking garage. Correct, But the video on the
Speaker 12: roof was not distinguishable fair.
Speaker 5: That's video as they stand alone. Yes, was not?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 12: Okay, did you at some point in your investigation collect
Speaker 12: from two young men who were present at the event
Speaker 12: a video that they had taken of someone on the
Speaker 12: roof about ten seconds before this?
Speaker 5: Yes, a video, Yes, not photographs. A video was collected
Speaker 5: from an individual who had a video.
Speaker 12: Do you know what they how they described the person
Speaker 12: on the roof.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I read it or if I
Speaker 5: heard it, but my understanding was they believed it was
Speaker 5: overwatch or some kind of a police overwatch for the event. Okay,
Speaker 5: that's my recollection.
Speaker 12: And do you remember anything specific about the person's build
Speaker 12: that they discussed when they described the person on the roof.
Speaker 2: I do not know, Okay, to Dave Matt Crime Story's
Speaker 2: investigative reporter or East Idaho News in the courtroom, Dave
Speaker 2: mac they are stating very clearly that the security guards,
Speaker 2: no matter how much they're being attacked right now, managed
Speaker 2: to very quickly obtain the face of Tyler Robinson. How
Speaker 2: did they do it?
Speaker 14: It was a combination, Nancy, of the available video that
Speaker 14: was there, being the surveillance video throughout the area that
Speaker 14: allowed security, you know, to actually figure out who this is.
Speaker 14: You're watching the video right there going down the stairs.
Speaker 14: But you know, there was enough video provided by UVU
Speaker 14: that the investigators were able to pull together fairly quickly, Uh,
Speaker 14: the one person that they saw up on the roof
Speaker 14: or looked at on the roof, and they were able
Speaker 14: to carry it down to Tyler Robinson. And again, you know,
Speaker 14: you're able to track Robinson's movements from the four times
Speaker 14: he was on campus that day to going up and
Speaker 14: down the stairs to going and jumping off the route.
Speaker 14: So there's a lot of video of this guy and
Speaker 14: being able to figure out who he is. It's not
Speaker 14: a big lead, Nancy.
Speaker 2: Speaking on that subject. Tyler Robinson all over the campus,
Speaker 2: back and forth and back and forth, long before Charlie
Speaker 2: Kirk started speaking, emerges in testimony.
Speaker 5: At that time. He makes contact with some representatives from
Speaker 5: TPUSA by quad area. Sorry, the Amphitheater is what I've
Speaker 5: previously referred it to, a right.
Speaker 15: So he goes about to campus, visits the Amphitheater area,
Speaker 15: the courtyard or quad correct and then what do we
Speaker 15: see here?
Speaker 5: Now? He returns on footback to the same vehicle.
Speaker 15: And what time is he returning back to the vehicle.
Speaker 5: It's about nine twenty five am.
Speaker 2: To Joe Scott Morgan joining us for expert, there's no
Speaker 2: denying that's him. You can't get away from that. He's
Speaker 2: all over campus before the Charlie Kirk shooting. He's up
Speaker 2: and down the stairwells. He's scoping it out. Joe Scott Morgan,
Speaker 2: how can you argue unless the defense wants to argue
Speaker 2: it's an AI fabrication.
Speaker 8: There's no way to argue against this. I don't believe.
Speaker 8: And considering let's reflect just a second. Let's remember the
Speaker 8: FBI is already involved in this case, all right. It
Speaker 8: would not surprise me in the least to find out
Speaker 8: that they have done some enhancementsography from the videography where
Speaker 8: you will will they will have mapped out his face
Speaker 8: and it will give you this imprint that matches back
Speaker 8: to him. It would not surprise me if you hear
Speaker 8: these people testify, because that's going to be one of
Speaker 8: the big questions. You know, how do you verify the
Speaker 8: provenance of these images that you're seeing. This is something
Speaker 8: that's separate from DNA. So when you think about biometric concerns,
Speaker 8: which is what we refer to as the mapping of
Speaker 8: the face, mapping of the eyes, all those sorts of things.
Speaker 8: Even with fingerprints nowadays, that's going to play into this,
Speaker 8: I believe, from an evidentiary standpoint, Nancy.
Speaker 2: Into James Hamilton, former FBI special agent, founder of the
Speaker 2: Hamilton Security Group.
Speaker 1: You see the video just like we do, just like.
Speaker 2: The courtroom has done in the last hours, and like
Speaker 2: a jury, we'll see it. There's no denying that's Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 2: But he's also going back to his vehicle. Vehicles have
Speaker 2: cracked so many cases. James Hamilton his vehicle. They can
Speaker 2: enhance the tag, the license, They can probably get him
Speaker 2: in the vehicle, his face driving the vehicle.
Speaker 1: How critical will it.
Speaker 2: Be that it's his car, not just his face, but
Speaker 2: it's his car too.
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's just more evidence.
Speaker 7: It's more evidence for the jury to see putting him
Speaker 7: there at the scene prior to the killing. And you know,
Speaker 7: it's it's casing. It's it's absolutely you know, in line
Speaker 7: with casing that environment, looking before you operate. It's what
Speaker 7: they call pre operational surveillance. And yeah, the key, the
Speaker 7: car's key. Him being there's key, I agree with the
Speaker 7: other guests. Or will be some type of facial enhancement
Speaker 7: by the FBI. But the jury's got a lot to
Speaker 7: you know, see here, which puts the guy at this
Speaker 7: at the crime, which is great evidence.
Speaker 2: Let me understand something else. Dave Matc, Crime Stories, investigative reporter.
Speaker 2: Is it true that Tyler Robinson went before the shooting
Speaker 2: and spoke with TP Turning Point USA personnel.
Speaker 14: Yep, he sure did, Nancy. He as we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 14: he was just talking to them about the event. He
Speaker 14: was just trying to blend into I'm guessing that he
Speaker 14: was up close so he could see what the layout
Speaker 14: was going to be. He knew where he was going
Speaker 14: to be, and he needed to know everything that was
Speaker 14: going on up there where exactly Charlie Kirk would be sitting,
Speaker 14: where exactly everyone would be positioned, And so why would
Speaker 14: he be bothering with that? He would be hunkered in
Speaker 14: his position waiting. Instead he's rambling all around, going to
Speaker 14: Chick fil A and then coming and talking to TPUSA
Speaker 14: before he goes and takes his position from the crow's net.
Speaker 2: To fillow debate. Veteran defense attorney joining us out of
Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction. That's your man, he is on camera.
Speaker 2: How are you going to argue against he was there
Speaker 2: casing everything out, walking with a limp where a gun
Speaker 2: stuck down his pants.
Speaker 1: I mean going up.
Speaker 2: To TPUSA and asking specific questions about when Charlie Kirk
Speaker 2: was going to take the stay, each where was he
Speaker 2: going to be, just anything to get a chance to
Speaker 2: see what was going on.
Speaker 9: Well, first of all, they're going to have to verify
Speaker 9: only a foundation that it was in fact him as
Speaker 9: opposed to some young man making these inquiries. But even
Speaker 9: assuming they could make the link, I can see and
Speaker 9: anticipate the defense showing that this is simply pro social
Speaker 9: behavior on his part. He's only there to assist, promote,
Speaker 9: and help with the well being of others in his
Speaker 9: Q and A. Now doesn't mean it's going to fly.
Speaker 9: Maybe not. But remember what I said earlier. It only
Speaker 9: takes one juror to have sympathy for this young man
Speaker 9: to really see that maybe he was there to help
Speaker 9: understand and maybe guide others away we perceived his harm's way.
Speaker 1: He was there to help there to help help.
Speaker 9: What and organize the event, to make sure that the
Speaker 9: coast was clear that things were safe. The evidence is plea.
Speaker 2: You're arguing that Tyler Robinson. It can be argued look
Speaker 2: at the chaos this guy caused, Joe Scott. You've heard
Speaker 2: a lot of witnesses on the stand, a lot of
Speaker 2: any defense theories, but Joe Scott, would they dare to
Speaker 2: argue Tyler Robinson was there to help organize the event.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 8: All due respect to Philip, No, it would not surprise me.
Speaker 8: I've seen defense attorneys do multiple things over the years
Speaker 8: that literally, you know, I had to put on my
Speaker 8: shot face, as they say, But it's you know they're
Speaker 8: trying to get their defendant off, but yeah, it's it is.
Speaker 8: It is insulting when you begin to think of it
Speaker 8: from that perspective. That was not his mission set in
Speaker 8: this particular case, Nancy.
Speaker 2: That video of the chaotic scene after the shooting is
Speaker 2: from Life is Driving on X and Warm on it
Speaker 2: zero R three. Let's go back into the courtroom regarding
Speaker 2: Robin returning and returning and returning to campus.
Speaker 5: This is mister Robinson returning to the campus on foot
Speaker 5: from the neighborhood to the northeast. You can see he's
Speaker 5: wearing the same clothing as in the previous video and
Speaker 5: he's carrying a blue backpack.
Speaker 15: Describe the clothing.
Speaker 5: It's a maroon colored T shirt with gray or olive
Speaker 5: colored shorts and then converse shoes.
Speaker 15: And what time did he return to campus?
Speaker 5: Just after ten am?
Speaker 15: And does he leave the parking structure eventually he does?
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 15: And during this visit, do you know where he goes
Speaker 15: after he leaves the parking structure?
Speaker 5: Yes, we were able to track his movements on campus.
Speaker 5: He went to Chick fil A in the Sorenson Building,
Speaker 5: purchased some food and satinate the food. From there, he
Speaker 5: moves across campus, out across campus Drive into a wooded
Speaker 5: area on what would be kind of the northeast side
Speaker 5: of campus Drive, then returns back onto campus. We noticed
Speaker 5: at this point that he's no longer carrying the backpack
Speaker 5: that he was originally wearing. He moves through the Gunfa
Speaker 5: Building and the Computer Science building, then goes across to
Speaker 5: the railing that gives access to the roof of the
Speaker 5: Loci building. From there, From there he comes back down
Speaker 5: the stairs and walks off campus from that point.
Speaker 2: You know what this is reminding me of to Phillip
Speaker 2: Debet debate defense attorney. When Scott Peterson was approached, his
Speaker 2: wife had been missing, his pregnant wife had been missing.
Speaker 2: And he was approached and told that the bodies that
Speaker 2: had just washed up at San Francisco Bay, that the
Speaker 2: DNA test results were back, and those two bodies, a
Speaker 2: woman and an infant, were his wife Lacy and unborn
Speaker 2: son Connor. And within about eight minutes, guess what Scott
Speaker 2: Peterson said, I want to see debay. Please, that's not debay,
Speaker 2: there's debate. Scott Peterson within eight to ten minutes says,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're driving through I'll take a double
Speaker 2: double with cheese fries in a large shape. They just
Speaker 2: told him his wife was absolutely dead, her dead body
Speaker 2: had washed up at the San Francisco Bay and his
Speaker 2: unborn child. It did not affect his appetite. And here
Speaker 2: in the midst of all this, Tyler Robinson is caught
Speaker 2: on video chowing down at Chick fil A. What is
Speaker 2: wrong with him?
Speaker 9: Well, first of all, you're making the assumption that it
Speaker 9: was him all along. It is not uncommon to see
Speaker 9: a student, first of all, carrying a book bag, wearing
Speaker 9: a baseball cap, casually dressed, going to get a bite
Speaker 9: to eat. And to suggest that this is just a
Speaker 9: cold blooded killer. I don't think there's enough evidence there.
Speaker 9: And as for Scott Peterson, if that were in the
Speaker 9: state of Utah, he would get a special jury instruction
Speaker 9: that any oral statements that he made that were not
Speaker 9: recorded should be listened to and viewed with caution. Because
Speaker 9: it's so easy for anyone else.
Speaker 2: Well, Jue, who is not the state of Utah, quit
Speaker 2: dreaming that Chick fil a photo from Candice Owens.
Speaker 1: You know you're just you're grabbing.
Speaker 2: A straws trying to claim anything other than what I
Speaker 2: am telling you. You also claim, how do I know
Speaker 2: is Tyler Robinson? Other than us seeing his face? There's
Speaker 2: more to prove it is Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 15: You believe this is mister Robinson returning to campus? I do, yes, okay,
Speaker 15: And what do you believe it's mister Robinson. The shoes
Speaker 15: are the same, and the images that we have are
Speaker 15: from my viewing and seeing mister Robinson on the video.
Speaker 15: It's the same person. He's noticeably wearing different clothing.
Speaker 5: He is wearing different clothing, and he also is walking
Speaker 5: with a gate or a limp in this video.
Speaker 15: So when he leaves the parking structure, where does he go?
Speaker 5: He comes up around Campus Drive. As you can see
Speaker 5: on the video here, there is a there's a cut
Speaker 5: through there north of the Lowsie building, and that's mister
Speaker 5: Robinson coming up the sidewalk, has the noticeable gate or
Speaker 5: limp in his walk, and then he moves south across
Speaker 5: the run of the Loci building.
Speaker 2: So, amidst all of his scouting and scoping and questioning
Speaker 2: the turning point, USA staff doctor Sherry Schwartz, he built
Speaker 2: up an appetite.
Speaker 13: Yes, it seems that he wanted to make sure that
Speaker 13: he ate before carrying out whatever deeds he carried out
Speaker 13: that day. Mister Duby, the defense attorney, said earlier that
Speaker 13: he was engaging in pro social behavior, and I would
Speaker 13: say the opposite. From a forensic psychological perspective, I would
Speaker 13: say that this is very clearly textbook antisocial behavior.
Speaker 2: In addition to it being his car with his car
Speaker 2: tag and his face and his clothing. The video ultimately
Speaker 2: catches him here.
Speaker 5: And again in the top left corner of the individual
Speaker 5: is now seen running across the rooftop of the Loci
Speaker 5: building to what would be the southwest corner of the building,
Speaker 5: crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.
Speaker 15: And this is it?
Speaker 5: What time around twelve twenty three? I think a time
Speaker 5: snap on the video is twelve twenty.
Speaker 15: Two on the tent.
Speaker 5: On September tenth, Yes, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 15: We're clear. This is the roof of the low se building.
Speaker 5: Correct.
Speaker 15: Can you still see that individual?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: You can, laying prone according to prosecutors, Yes, alygn prone.
Speaker 2: Ready to pull the trigger if you know or think
Speaker 2: you know anything about the shooting of Charlie Kirk Dial
Speaker 2: toll free eight hundred two, two five, five, three two four.
Speaker 2: We remember an American Hero, Trooper, Michael pahera Pennsylvania State
Speaker 2: police killed in the line of duty, leaving behind grieving
Speaker 2: parents Michael and Patricia. American hero Trooper Michael Pahara. Thank
Speaker 2: you to our guests, but especially to you for being
Speaker 2: with us. Nancy Gray's signing off for tonight, but I'll
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend.