Ep. 260: The Presence: Bigfoot, UFOs, and the Intelligence Behind the Mystery

In this episode of Tinfoil Tales, Brandon is joined by Ron and Mark, co-authors of The High Strangeness of Bigfoot, for a deep and thought-provoking conversation that goes far beyond traditional cryptid discussions.

What begins as a conversation about Bigfoot quickly evolves into something much larger—a theory that many of the unexplained phenomena people experience may not be separate at all, but instead connected through what they describe as a single underlying “presence.” Ron and Mark discuss their research into anomalous activity, including field experiments using what they call the “C6 protocol,” which they claim has produced unusual recordings, environmental changes, and unexplained aerial phenomena.

Rather than viewing Bigfoot as a biological species, they explore the idea that it may be a manifestation—one of many forms this “presence” can take depending on the observer, environment, and cultural context.

The conversation draws connections between cryptids, UFOs, paranormal encounters, and even historical religious experiences.

Throughout the episode, Brandon, Ron, and Mark dive into:

• The “control system” hypothesis and the idea of an intelligent presence
• Bigfoot as a manifestation rather than a physical species
• UFOs and UAPs behaving beyond known physical limitations
• Changing descriptions of phenomena across history
• Consciousness, perception, and altered states of awareness
• The role of mystery in human evolution and curiosity
• Why physical evidence appears briefly, then disappears

Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out

of there.

Speaker 2: I was done.

Speaker 1: I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy of the cult

is one of the things that turned me away the quickest.

When I turned my head lights on, it turned and

looked at us.

Speaker 3: And one of the things I remember the most, where

the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light.

It is just circling these steps like it is waiting

for me. And he begins to tell them that he

saw a UFO.

Speaker 1: They're basically like, what are you talking about.

Speaker 3: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,

and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle,

nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye

contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back

to tin Foil Tells. I'm your host Brandon Tonight, I'm

joined by Ron and Mark. Guys, thanks for coming here

and talking with me.

Speaker 1: Thanks for having us.

Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me who goes first, But would

you guys like to let the audience know a little

bit about yourself before we dive into it tonight.

Speaker 4: I'll go ahead. Mark.

Speaker 1: I'm a writer of science fiction and fantasy. I'm seventy

five years old. I live in Bulder, Colorado. I got

my start in writing with Ron Meyer, the co author

on this book, The High Strangeness of Bigfoot, about thirty

years ago. He mentored me and as he and I

have worked together on numerous projects, thousands of projects in

the last thirty years. I practice a martial art called

aketo and uh I live in a live in a

community that that the residents manage and uh we, uh

we do a pretty good job of it. I think

that's about that's my that's my tail.

Speaker 3: Mhm.

Speaker 5: So I've been in the entertainment business, starting in public

television in the seventies. Then they got a company and

was in the rise of cable producing and distributing. Did

the first feature film for Discovery with you know, Hollywood actors,

billion dollar budgets.

Speaker 4: Turn of the century.

Speaker 5: I sold my library and focused on producing, largely for

one company being educational material and the other one doing

edutainment where I got a specialty and serial killers of

all things. And I was hired to do a program

on Bigfoot pre COVID and I wasn't too excited about it.

I really had no idea about Bigfoot, but my daughter,

who was working for me at the time said you

would largely handle the hard work, and so that's how

I got into the paranormal. Other than that, I've been

involved in anomalous experiences throughout my life, including not doing

experiences where the self goes away, out of body experiences,

and lately I've been we've been recording with a particular

protocol we use that we call it the C six

protocol who we use a mindfulness meditation and a rare

old chant from the beginning of natural languages, and we're

beginning all sorts of weird recordings, appearances and even whatever

I was doing, it took control of a bunch of

environmental variables, including the magnetism of an area, and lifted

it up during the duration. Then on the gyroscope, it

lifted us up on the z accent. So it's been

pretty cool.

Speaker 3: I'm familiar with the C five because that's why I've

talked a few people to do that, like the CEE

five stuff where fly over with the UFOs or the

lights in the sky. But I'm not You're the first

one I've ever heard referred to six.

Speaker 4: I just made it up last summer.

Speaker 2: Okay, little pos encounters of a little more of a

kind or something like that, and so, and it was

discovered really a year ago last summer that I've did

it for real and with a group of people, and

I've done it now.

Speaker 5: In a group of two hundred people in Sedona sixty

and Eureka Springs. We did a small went of Bradshaw Ranch.

You ever hear a Bradshaw Ranch? Yeah, skid Marker ranch thing.

Speaker 3: I had an interview with someone last year about a

Bradshaw Ranch.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a cool place. I like it a lot.

I feel good there, but made a lot.

Speaker 5: We wrote a book on that, and I did a

movie on it, you know, doing extremely well.

Speaker 4: You know, you can still make money. That was making a.

Speaker 5: Ton of money then every platform. So you just got

to be lucky with these things.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: So so right now I'm kind of just pursuing this

paranormal aspect of stuff, following expanding the use of the

protocol in different situations, seeing what it's going to result in.

Speaker 3: I know what the Bradshaw Ranch stuff they had from

the guy that I talked to, it wasn't just like

paranormal stuff, but they had bigfoot activity and he said

he even found like large tracks that he also thought

was like a soro pod.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we've seen that stuff too, like a big three

tote thing. Ye, my son, he he actually saw the bigfoot.

It's called big gall of all things. On the window

of the Adobe house. I interacted with with an entity

who was sitting on a chair. You could see it

on an SLS. You know what those are these cameras, Yeah,

cord like stick figures that when they find a human

And this one was pretty good.

Speaker 4: It was sitting in the.

Speaker 5: Chair and I had a green light laser pointer and

I pointed it at its feet. It took and looked

down and kicked it with his foot and we have

that red That's pretty cool. So when indicated had awareness

and that was probably the coolest thing. And we also

found a portal there that kind of worked unpleasantly with

a lot of people's biology identified it by cold spot

with a hot spot in between big electromag left a

lot of magnetic fluctuations and it seemed to go in

and out of existence while we were there filming.

Speaker 3: That sounds similar to what they have going on there

like Skinwalker Ranch two with the magnetism and everything. So

it is do you think these areas that are I

don't want to come up all. I guess they would

be a hot spot. But you think this is something

that has some like with the all the activities because

of something to do with all the magnetism itself. That's

what causes these energies going on there. I would say, no, okay, you.

Speaker 5: Know right now we're working with the hypotheses which came

from Jacques la kind of a famous Dudent war and

everything pioneer and technology is one of the co founders

of the first version of the Internet. And that's it's

that there's a presence and Colonel John Alexander calls it

the it because he said he can't think of a

better word for because he was the first one to

investigate Skinwalker Ranch and that that presence in masquerade pretty

much any form of once from these tic tac type

ufp UAPs or as a bigfoot, and they have a

kind of physicality to them. But it's what actually it is.

It's hard to say, and that's kind of what I'm

trying to figure out because it shows up for us

at these locations and strange ways in different ways every time.

Speaker 3: Yeah, do you so you've been writing this new book,

and it's basically the high strangeness of Bigfoot.

Speaker 4: Correct.

Speaker 3: Do you believe that Bigfoot itself now that you've been

investigating it, Do you think these bigfoot or just undiscovered

species or you think there's a lot more to them

than just an ape running around undiscovered?

Speaker 4: No mark I've been talking about.

Speaker 1: I think we can pretty much lay to rest the

idea of Bigfoot being a separate species or a species

of hominid that swings around through the trees in the

woods or in the jungle, or lives in the outback

of Australia known as the Yauzi or lives in the

hamalias as the Yetti. For two reasons. The first, I

think is the most important one is that there are

no fossil There is no fossil record of such a

being anywhere on the planet. Secondly, there with the ubiquitousness

of cameras nowadays cell phone cameras, you would think that

somebody would get a very clear picture of it that says,

oh wow, this is a hairy beast that swings through

the trees. Those are the two that's the first main reason.

But the second reason goes back to what Ron was

talking about in terms of the Jacques Vallet's control hypothesis

control system hypothesis, and that is that this presence can

manifest us whatever is needed in the moment to influence

us in different ways. And in the book The High

Strangents of Bigfoot, we look at this historically from around

fifty thousand years ago, when it's considered that humans first

began to learn speech or create speech, I should say,

and to the present, and this presence manifests and thing

in ways that are familiar to people at the time.

So let's take Let's take Saint Martin of Tours who

met a beggar on the road. He's a Roman legionnaire.

He sees a beggar on the road, he slices his

tunic in half, covers him, and then has a vision

of what he should really be doing, which is protecting

people instead of being a Roman legionnaire killing them. That's

a very simplified version of his story. But this vision

that he has is in keeping with his worldview at

the time. If we go to Saint if we go

to Joseph Smith, who founded the Mormon religion, an angel

comes to him. This is the nineteenth century angels and

demons are huge in the nineteenth century, so of course

his his vision is going to be a manifestation of

something that's familiar to him. Let's go to the twentieth century.

We're going through world history very quickly. Here we go

to the twenties.

Speaker 4: Can I just interrupt you. Nobody's ever captured an angel

or a demon either that's true.

Speaker 1: That's true, which is very very salient. Go to the

twentieth century. The worldview is changing. I'm not saying that

God is dead or that religion is dead. I'm not

saying that. But the worldview is changing. It's becoming decidedly

more secular than it was in the nineteenth century. And

that secularism is going to be seen by individuals who

have these experiences. So you some individuals will see angels,

some individuals will see demons. But other individuals who are

are less religious are going to see things that are

part of their worldview.

Speaker 4: Of U A.

Speaker 1: P s for example, a bigfoot of the dog man

for as another example, cryptids as examples, because this is

something that is familiar to them. And we all have

uh familiars use the old Coven term familiars. We all

have familiars that were that were that were very comfortable with,

and those manifestations will come to us with I call

it wisdom. They come to us with wisdom when we

need it. And I think that is part of what

Jacques Bela is saying with its control hypothesis system, This

presence comes to humans with wisdom when we need it.

Speaker 3: I've mentioned before the I think a lot of these

things that people's see might be the same thing, but

they're only we interpret them as what we see them

as or what they want us to see them as.

But I think, like when people see a bigfoot, or

like you said, even a dog man or an alien

or anything like like something different, maybe it's because that's

what it's being projected to us, and that's how we're

supposed to be able to understand it, because we can't

actually see what it really is, so it projects an

image of what we can understand itself to be. So

that's kind of that's where I think a lot of

this stuff And if people have heard me before, like

I say, a lot of this is connected. I think

a lot of even with the paranormal aspect to it,

I think a lot of it is somehow similar because

someone says their house is haunted, you have all this

activity going on there. And I interviewed someone before they said,

think of Bigfoot as like a forest poltergeist, because if

you have all the activity you have with Bigfoot in

your house, you'd say your house is haunted. But this

happens out in the woods, so they call it Bigfoot.

Sounds like that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1: Well, the sailish in Indian words sasquatch, which is synonymous,

of course with Bigfoot, doesn't doesn't refer necessarily to Harry

Be swinging through the trees, but it does refer to

a spirit that is in the forest and among many,

many groups, whether you're talking about Native American groups or

groups on oh in the deserts of South Africa or

in along the Amazon, refer frequently to spirits that are

around them and in the case say of of several

Plains Indians, these spirits could be very important guiding spirits

to you, whether they it's a part of a vision

quest or maybe some other right that you're going through.

Uh So, these these spirits, I think are extremely important

to us, maybe less important to the scientific community, because

it's the scientific community can't find what they call. And

I'm gonna put quotation marks or air quotes around this,

a rational explanation for a bigfoot or a haunted house.

Speaker 3: For example.

Speaker 4: That's no.

Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, that's that's kind of how

I feel about it too.

Speaker 5: So yet all these things you can't exclude some sort

of physical manifestation with them. The you know, the tic

TACs SMaL you know, traveling at speeds that are impossible,

you know, according to the normal consensus laws of physicalism

or reductionist physics. We recorded for these in our thermal

going just as fast, just as inexplicable.

Speaker 4: And you know there were there were there reel.

Speaker 5: As can be in some ways, but just impossible as well,

because nothing we have could go that fast. They weren't

like this cross for sixteen seconds. And in the protocol

it happened instantaneously when I said to the group of

two hundred people, look to the skies, and they showed

up just to so as Alec coronel ogers, I say

that these things are sentient. In other words, they they're

aware of what's going on, and they seem to be

pre cognitive to know to some extent what's happening. Before

we do, Like when people see bigfoot running across the road,

it's not an accident. This way of thinking and these

things become life changing for people because this shift the

world view people have if these things are possible, and

they can't deny them, although you know they might try, they.

Speaker 4: Don't fit it.

Speaker 5: And so I think it's part of there's a shift

going on right now, kind of like the death of physicalism.

You know, the old scientific consensus that everything is material

and energy and space and time. But that's just not

good enough. That we humans have are are in many

ways very unique, and we have consciousness and that needs

to be explained among other things. I mean, it seems

kind of ridiculous that there was in the beginning, there

was a bunch of helium or hydrogen, and that led

to Brandon.

Speaker 3: I was gonna agree. This makes me think of something

that I heard recently when it comes like to the

UAPs and like with a tip or altick whatever is

pronounced as like some of the things that they've done

to investigate. One of the guys that was in charge

of it, I think his last name was Lakatski. He

was telling people to stop thinking about it as like

basically a nuts and bolts type of a craft if

we see these things and without going because apparently he

can't go breaking his o's or going off record or

whatever it is. But the way I interpret of what

he was explaining is think of these things more as

a consciousness, spiritual type aspect to them rather than a

space craft. And that kind of goes back into I

just hear recently the Vice President claims these things are

he said demons, which I thought was a random thing

to say.

Speaker 1: That's his worldview. So yeah, So I want to come

back to this a little bit because we're talking about science,

and Ron was talking about science and how siloed it

can be. That's not to say that modern science and

technology isn't good. I mean, we wouldn't be talking the

way we're talking right now without modern science and technology.

It just wouldn't exist. But at some point modern science

and technology has to break out of the very small

box it's put itself in, that reductionist box that tries

to explain everything down to the smallest little item as

the as a way of saying, this is this is

how everything's meaningful. And I believe, and I didn't always

believe this because when Ron and I first met up

for the first book we did on Aliens and big

but he recruited me because of my skepticism. And one

of the great things that Ron convinced me of as

we've continued our working together in the last six to

seven years, is that my stub my skepticism can make

me so stubborn that I'm not able to see the

force for the trees. So dialing back my skepticism, I'm

able to say science isn't bad, but if it could

break out of that narrow box it's put itself in,

it might actually expand to even greater abilities than it

has now.

Speaker 5: And then you know, science is just people doing stuff

writing symbols, yeah.

Speaker 4: Language or mathematics.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: The voice wasn't.

Speaker 5: Done by some human being wisconscious. And you could take

all the written texts relating to you know, physics or

biology and all the symbols, and if we had no

culture to interpret them, they would be meaningless because they're

just it's just the map that we currently think is,

you know, the map of reality at best, it's not

the story. But right now I think the shift is

it's happening, is that we're beginning to to live with

not knowing. I think all these things are asking us

you can't figure them out. Those tic TACs, we can't

figure them out. When those things showed up, similar types

of things showed up at at Sedona. I don't know

how to make sense that. Nobody knows how to make

sense of it. We just got to kind of live

in this state of we just don't know when. I

think that's valuable, especially in relationship to the artificial and

tells that are coming along because they can't they certainly

can't function and not knowing. But mostly the great inventions

come about when people are in a state of not knowing.

They're just puzzling and thinking, and all of a sudden, boom,

something something shows up that connected things that weren't connected before,

like the classic example of things falling on Earth and

planet's going around the sun. You know that these two

things could be related. And most of the science occurs

that way, when when things that weren't related become related,

and that's the big step forward, and then you have

some more of those, and then you have more problems

and odd patterns, and eventually some person comes along and

makes another set of connections and it just moves along

like that. But I think right now it's good to

be living and not knowing because that's where the creative

aspect and juice of human beings that resides.

Speaker 4: That's just my opinion.

Speaker 3: It makes life a little more interesting, I think when

there's stuff that we don't actually know, because it gives

us something to research into look for more. I don't

know if that's just a human trade or not, but

we all have a feeling like there's something more than

what we know. There's always someone else to it.

Speaker 1: Jack Malay talks about that with his control system hypothesis

that the presence creates mysteries for humans. And I've said

this before that humans are as curious as cats, and

if the Earth really were flat, we'd like cats. We'd

be chasing after everything and falling off the edge. I mean,

we just would because we want to know about it.

So that state of not knowing that Ron was talking

about is the greatest source of our personal growth. And

some people take it in different directions. Stephen Jobs, for example,

took it in the direction of Apple and next thing

you know, we have iPods, iPhones, imax. I mean, that's

just an incredible display of technical of technologies from his

not knowing. For some of us, though, the not knowing

is long a spiritual path for some of us, So

not knowing is long a physical path.

Speaker 4: You know.

Speaker 1: We don't know how fast we can run. We don't

know how fast we can swim. Can you imagine Michael

Phelps had gotten into the water and he went, oh, wow,

this is wet. Well, I really don't care about it. No,

he doesn't know anything about it. He goes, well, I

want to find out a little bit more about this,

And the next thing, you know, you know, thirty years

later he's got twenty three gold medals and the greatest

sports hero of our generation or of the millennial generation,

not our generation.

Speaker 3: And it's not too like dig at anyone that's religious

or whatever. But I've always thought it was interesting that

a lot of people are willing to accept their religious

beliefs without any sort of validation to it, like far

as physical proof that they can prove a different like

a higher power, like in like a god aspect to it.

But the same people will not believe in UFOs or

aliens or the idea of Bigfoot or these spirits or whatever.

But you're putting all your faith into something of the

same nature of a different type of a creator, a being,

a different type of energy of power. But you won't

believe in the aspects of some of these other things too.

Speaker 4: Human beings are strange, aren't they.

Speaker 3: Yeah, very much.

Speaker 1: Sometimes we find it easier to latch onto those things

that feel familiar to us. So I'm just going to

make a wild guess that all of us grew up

in a household that had some connection to religion somewhere,

whether our parents took us to church or our neighbors

parents took their kids to church. So that's a familiarity

to us. And whether we went to church or not,

there's a huge familiarity just in the worldview around us.

At all times. People are always talking about religion, and

right now the president's in a war with the Pope

of all things, I mean. So we're all conscious of

different religious faiths, sort of driven into us through history

and through our lives as we grow up. So say

it makes sense that we gravitate towards those things that

are familiar to us. But along your lines what you're

talking about, Brandon, when we take the familiarity and use

it as a skepticism to say nothing else can exist

outside of it. Then we've really siloed ourselves into this

small sort of worldview that doesn't allow us to grow.

I don't think it allows us to grow spiritually personally,

but it certainly doesn't allow us to grow in the

sense of becoming more aware of who we are as

human beings, who we what we can do as human beings.

Speaker 3: Our capabilities are we're not even really tapped into. I

think a lot of the abilities that we can manifest.

But I don't know if that's by design or just

us not knowing right now, but I feel like there's

things that humans are capable of that we don't even

know how to scratch the surface of.

Speaker 5: M hm. So I think, you know, these people who

are satisfied with Christianity, they're kind of source from the

same thing. You know that there's there's a mystery to

their to their life. They don't quite understand how it

is that they are. There's an insecurity there. They know

that they're vulnerable in their bodies, and so there's got

the thought is there's got to be something bigger and

better than just this, you know, being hungry running around

and drinking and cooping and knocking each other around. There's

got to be something else, and in many ways, these

forms of Christianity is kind of an answer to It

says there's a higher power, and that's somehow you're connected

to that higher power.

Speaker 4: And I think that's okay.

Speaker 5: I think pretty much everything that, even my own, my

own sense of of why I'm here, has never been

totally satisfied. I still don't get how it is that

I am, you know so, and I probably never will.

But there's this, I think, ever since one's got language,

they asked that question because they could. I don't think

my dog worries about if he's going to go to

heaven or no, or you know, how it is that

he's existing and all that sort of stuff. It's us,

human beings that want that asks those questions and feel

the desire to we're connected to something bigger, and that's

the mystery because we don't quite know what it is.

And you know, it keeps me going, how about you, Brandon.

Speaker 3: I think it's interesting and this is just me thinking

out loud, but it's always been interesting to me that

we are basically the only species that I'm aware of. Obviously,

there was offshoots, but we're the only ones that are

we do what we do, like we're the most evolved

in the sense that we live in houses, we drive vehicles,

we have technologies, we do all those other things, and

if you look at all the other species, there's nothing

close to us. So it's like we are special in

the sense that we are human, Like we have this ability,

we have thoughts, we can think about things, we can

actually think about, like religions, and we have these ideas,

and apparently we make weapons and blow each other up too.

But we're the only species that seems to do that.

You don't see any other species like obviously primates now

can they communicate amongst themselves or whatever. But it's not

how we are talking, right, you know what I mean.

They don't have the they don't have the humanization like

we do.

Speaker 5: I think the redefining what it means to what a

human is it is happening right now. Like you said,

there's one aspect of it is the expansion of certain

abilities that can emerge that are you know, quite surprise

to say, precognition, even it's very short, for example, telecanesis.

Speaker 4: Did you ever bend a spoon or something like that

by the wine.

Speaker 3: I've tried, I've never been able to do it.

Speaker 5: I did it really cool and it just was like buddy,

but there was no heat to it, which would if

you had heated it up, then it would have been

pretty hot when it wasn't. So we did this interview

with Colonel Alexander and he said that when they were

looking for people to do telekinesis experiments like using their

wine to kill things like goats, the first test was

could they been in the spoon and if they could,

could they accept that they could bend the spoon? And

not everybody could. Surprisingly, it just didn't fit in with

their world view, and so they were dismissed. And then

the rest of it. I guess the ones that succeeded

in both those tests, you know, move on and killed

goats and who knows what else. So there are these capabilities,

you know, and maybe it's all human in some sense.

That's one of the new ideas emerging, is that there's

little us and then there's big us, that this mystery

is also us, that there's only the one and getting

kind of wild here, Sorry about that.

Speaker 3: You're good. The the movie, I think was called the

Men that ster at goats. Wasn't that about them trying

to do that?

Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, it was kind of you know version

of it.

Speaker 3: I figured that the movie version wasn't one hundred percent

accurate of what really went on because Hollywood likes to

portray things a little differently than reality.

Speaker 5: So Pardinal Alexander said that they did succeed to be

able to kill goats when they did the autopsy and

the goat like it was a bullet moving to their heart,

that there was no anti or exit. Mond, that's something

would tell me.

Speaker 3: I know they used to try remote viewing. That's something

that I think has been they've talked about, and that's

where the people. Oh yeah, it makes me wonder if

we're able to do that. And then you talk to

people that say that they're able to leave their body,

like travel the astral plane or whatever, like their consciousness

leaves their body. We could like as being raised as

a Christian, obviously we have a soul, is what I

was raised is the soul basically our consciousness. It's our energy.

And then people are able to leave their body and

then travel around. And I've talked to people that supposedly

are able to do this on command, Like they can

go into a meditative state and they leave their body

and they travel through these different things, They've interacted with,

different beings from these different planes of existence. It gets

to the point to where it's like, are they a

different reality a different dimension? Like that's where my brain

I started to get confused with it because it's like

trying to process all this information and it's like, I

don't understand how someone's able to do that, let alone

like where they're actually going and what they're interacting.

Speaker 4: They're not alone in that, you know.

Speaker 5: That's that's pretty typical of the response we have near

death experiences, right, same sort of kinds of telling of

the inaffable what you can't really talk about these experiences,

and so this idea that it's your conscious that leaves

the body and still is aware, you know stuff, that's

the twenty four of consciousness right now. That nobody nobody's

really settled one, you know, any one.

Speaker 4: Of them particular. Yeah, they're all fascinating to think about though.

Speaker 3: So that I'd love hearing stuff about it. But at

the same time, someone had asked me if i'd ever

want to try it, and I was like, my luck

would be I'd actually be the one that leaves my

body but not be able to come back to my body.

That'd be my consciousness or whatever it be, trapped wherever

it is.

Speaker 5: Sounds like a Hollywood movie. You end up in somehow

stuck in somebody else's body along with them.

Speaker 3: I better I better write it and get in touch

with my Hollywood buddies and get a get a cut

of that.

Speaker 5: So so I could. I can tell you one story

like that. We have this thing. There's this prayer tree

in a place in Colorado where people touch it and

they have these weird experiences.

Speaker 4: It was something that the.

Speaker 5: Juden said done and this one girl, young teenage girl,

did this and she described leaving her body and traveling.

I said that was really cool, and she said, no,

it wasn't. I'd never want to do that again.

Speaker 3: I've talked to someone before, and I've actually talked to

several people. One version of the near death experience was

they saw people from their path like it's almost the same,

like they saw their loved ones that have passed away

and they were around them. And then I've heard other

people talk about when they passed they saw a light,

but they were told not to go to the light,

and if you go on the light, you're basically going

back in a recycle event. So they didn't go to

the light, and they started seeing these other things and

that's how they started traveling around and seeing the other

like these weird beings and other things. I was like, again,

I don't know if this is true, because people can

make things, you know what I mean, Like, you don't

know what everyone's experience or maybe that's what they believed

that was happening to them, but there's no real verification

one way or another. It's just someone's account of what

they experienced.

Speaker 1: Well, it's not unlike people who say they've been abducted

by aliens, or that they've seen a UAP or they've

seen Bigfoot. These I like to say about people who

share their experiences. For example, one time Ron and I

were discussing a book we were writing. It was called

The book was called Simulation, and that the earth is

the premise of the book is that the world that

we now inhabit is actually not real. It's a giant

ai simulation for the simplicities. And they were listening to

us discuss this book that we're writing, and because we

discussed the characters and everything, and the young woman they

probably are about fifty years younger than Ron and me,

and the young woman comes over and says, I don't

know whether you guys would find this interesting, but we

were abducted by aliens. And she and her partner, young

man about the same age, sat down and talked with

us for about ten minutes about their experience, and you

could tell talking to them that they were not making

it up. They were not like, oh, I'm we're going

to titillate these guys and have fun with them. They

were earnest, and in their earnestness, they revealed a lot

about themselves personally, not I mean, I'm not talking about

details or gory details or something, but about how they

viewed life. And it was very important to them that

they came out of this alien abduction situation feeling actually

like they had had a beneficial experience. And then as

soon as you know, they got done telling their tale,

they thanked us and they walked away, and Ron and

I went back to discussing the book simulation. But I

came away from that and Ron has had similar experiences

with people who come up to him talk about bigfoot

sightings or UFOs, that these people aren't making it up.

So when they're traveling on the astral plane or they're

seeing bigfoot or something, this is very real to them.

It is something that really has happened, and it's not

a psychotic break. It's a real happening for them.

Speaker 3: I think when people come on my show, when I

interview everyone, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anybody.

I think everyone that comes on here believes what they're

telling me. And I try and remain skeptic too, like

you mentioned earlier, like your Skepta, I've had experiences and

I try and write them all off. I try and

explain them. That's the reason I made a documentary is

because I want to know what happened to me, and

I'm still looking for answers because for me, I'm kind

of one of those people that was like I'm I

didn't believe in a lot of this stuff. But the

more I've experienced in life, I've now went from being

skeptic too. I believe that there's something really going on

and I can't explain it. But I think when people

come on here. When they're explaining what happened to them,

they one are telling the truth, like they did experience something.

But I'm of the side of, well, maybe it's not

exactly like they saw big Foot, but kind of like

what we were talking about before. It's a bigfoot to them,

But what if it's something else that they had seen

In those four reasons, I feel like anyone that has

these experiences, they're usually a reason why they have them.

Speaker 5: Yeah, So one of the ways to look at this

is that people are taking seriously that there's quite a

few of these different states of consciousness. People who are

on Who's enogenics, you know, they have variety of different

experiences that they talk about.

Speaker 4: We have dreams.

Speaker 5: There's a hypnogogic state in the states between between awake

in a sleep where you're like in a theater of

action and people show up there.

Speaker 4: You know.

Speaker 5: There are people that travel they ask to planes, what

dear death experiences? They have different consciousness experiences. There's many

of these types of things, not just one that seemed

as human beings seem to be capable of experiencing one

way or another. Mark and I do flow practices based

on simple martial arts, and we get into a state

where the doer is gone, there's no self anymore.

Speaker 4: Everything works out wonderful. In a number of cases.

Speaker 5: When I was in that state, my body returns to

my twenty five version of my body and I move

freely in a way that's just not possible normally. I

mean recently, I was at a place where they where

we were walking this place in Wisconsin where the Beasts

of Very Road is, and I slipped into that state.

And usually I'm the line, you know, because I'm old,

and all of a sudden, I was totally free. I

just charged a long way ahead of everybody else. And

they said what was going on? I just said, well,

I got into the state. So that's another state. And Mark,

Mark's familiar with that state because we were basically there's

a when I say we, there's a situational awareness and

in a kind of power that's that can just not

kill anybody instantaneously in that state because there's no self

doing anything, yet things get done and it's weird as hell, right, Mark.

Speaker 1: Absolutely, we were training with a friend of ours, Dmitri,

and I was attacking Dmitri, and he put himself in

that state, and I would say that Dmitri touched me

with all the power that you you stick your finger

into cotton candy, I mean, and you know you would

TI can stick your finger in without cotton candy, without

very much power. And I remember that as I was

falling backwards, I was thinking, oh, I can get my balance,

and suddenly there was no earth beneath me. So whatever

Dimitri was experiencing, suddenly I experience. And I'm like, I'm

I don't know how I'm going to I don't know

how I'm going to land because there's nothing beneath me.

And then I hit the ground and it's like I

come out of that state. Dmitri comes over and helps

me up. But these flow states are not about being successful.

They're about being in the moment, being in the now,

and whatever happens is successful. That might be one way

of saying it, but I don't like that term. Whatever

happens happens, and there's no goodness to it, there's no

evil to it. There's just simply what is happening.

Speaker 4: And there's no mark and there's no run.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.

Speaker 5: There's a variety of these things, and people are coming

forward and beginning to see that there is a big

variety of different consciousness states, and it certainly means that

we as humans are much more unique than we ever

thought we were.

Speaker 3: I do have a question, and the footprint on your

wall besides you, has got me thinking about this. If

these bigfoot creatures or whatever we're seeing are more of

a spiritual type thing, how does stuff like that leave

a footprint or some sort of physical evidence if they're

not necessarily a physical being.

Speaker 5: So there's something really powerful behind that, right m Something

really strange that we can't figure out, because you know,

people have reported seeing a bigfoot and then it disappears

and they go find the print I mean before their eyes.

I mean I've talked to multiple people who have had

that experience. So, you know, the tic TACs, they're they're

they're impossible, going to the way we think, but yet

they were there, so they they have a physical effect

on they're creating a you know, a thermal image, you know,

which is you got to be kind of physical to

do that, like the ones we captured. Yet they're doing

things that are would normally be impossible. So this, whatever

they say, is allows for that to happen and you know,

that's not normally that we can think about something. Right,

If they're just spirits not to float around in our minds,

they're not going to you know, people have you know,

telekinesis in a way is kind of that, right? Do

you have your mind and you kill a goat by

thinking about it?

Speaker 4: Different? Is it?

Speaker 5: I mean, there's there's nothing there to look at. I

don't think when when the telekinesis is taking place and

then there's a result. Yet there's probably an experiences of

the person who's doing that, has it has its own

or her own experience of doing something right or something's

happening that there's an awareness of it, not random. Somebody said,

you know, kill the goat.

Speaker 3: My concern with that is if they're able to kill

the goat, where's a stop at from there? Does that

means someone could be out there just anywhere deciding they're

going to kill any sort of person just from thinking

about it.

Speaker 4: Well, it's only just possible, doesn't it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. The reality is, and people have said this before

and asked me, is obviously when I did what I

did for my film, I was out in the woods

and doing all sorts of things, and they're like, are

you afraid of what happens if you run into something?

I was like, I'm more afraid of running into a

person than i am a one of these things, because

I was like, to my knowledge, the human is the

more of the ones more likely to shoot me or

kill me or something, rather than a hairy man out

in the woods or a dog pan or something like that.

I'm probably gonna have it more of a chance of

getting shot by a property owner or something. O.

Speaker 5: Your parents were wise to let you know about that.

Is it a good job?

Speaker 1: Well, when we talk about the footprints which you brought

up in ron Sex, you can find the footprints. They

go for a few feet and then they suddenly disappear.

That actually also fits in with Jacques Malet's control system

hypothesis that the mystery is there for a reason. If

we actually caught the big foot, but we wouldn't have

a mystery anymore. We go, aha, we have it, you know,

And but the presence has that mystery for a purpose,

and so the presence is able to manifest in the

ways it needs to manifest, including footprints which go on

for five or six steps or maybe a dozen steps

and then disappear. The tic TACs that appear in the sky.

They're zigzagging across the sky at impossible speeds and then

they disappear.

Speaker 3: Do you I don't want to interrupt, but you mentioned

tic TACs. You think it's odd that back in the

forties they called them foo fighters, like the balls of

light that they were seeing, and then everyone started to

call them flying saucers, which was based off of Kenneth Arnold.

I think what it was is an original depiction of

wasn't really a salt. He said it was skipping like

a saucer. So that's where the whole flying saucer thing

came about. But what we know of these crafts like

they've changed their appearance as we've changed our technology. So

the more evolved we've gotten with our technologies, the description

of these things have always been more advanced in the

sense they're not the same descriptions. So they went from

being the original depiction that he was like a crescent

shape that had like these little almost looks like what

we would call now the stealth bomber, but it was

more rounded in the front rather than what we have,

and then they turned into these crafts, these round the

typical stereotype type of a UFO, like the round saucer crafts,

and then they started to get triangular like Throughout the

nineties and early two thousand they were all reporting these

black triangles and everything. Now everyone's talking about tic TACs.

It's almost like it. The more we get into it,

the shape in the description of what these things are

has also changed.

Speaker 4: Yeah, getting keeps the mystery alive, doesn't it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. The more you start to find things out, so

you think, then it keeps on evolving too. The mystery

just keeps being more of a mystery.

Speaker 4: So that's the heart disease.

Speaker 1: Part of part of it is is human ingenuity, and.

Speaker 4: It keeps us not knowing, keeps us not knowing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you don't know something and you're guessing

at it, your imagination can come up with fantastic things.

Speaker 4: When the when.

Speaker 1: The the Pilgrims came to the New World and they

went out into the woods for the first time, they

heard these enormous sounds. There's some in some of the

diaries they talk about these enormous, incredible sounds, and they

thought that there must be huge beasts out in these woods,

like bears. It turned out that they were like raccoons

because because you know, they had never seen a raccoon before,

and and so that that no was that had to

be huge. So humans imagination is great. We can go

with HG. Well's War of the World's Jules Verne, Captain

Nemo twenty thousand Leagues under the Sea. These great imaginations

of science fiction that happened the day the first day

the Earth stood still, I think it's nineteen fifty three.

Has an actual saucer, which goes back to what you

were talking about, Brandon, But by the time Star Trek

comes around, it's still kind of saucer shape, but now

it's got these kind of limbs on it. And then

the the Romulans have war birds that are different looking

and stuff. And by the time you get to Star

Trek in the next generation, the imagination has is full blown.

That ships can take any size shape.

Speaker 3: If your.

Speaker 1: A fan of SG one, some of them are pyramids,

you know. So our imagination allows us to expand the

definition of what we think is strange to from every

kind of everyday household items like a saucer to a

to a war bird. For a Romulan warbird, it Star Trek,

the next generation. That doesn't mean that these that once

we use our imagination to see something, doesn't mean that

that mystery is solved. If anything, our imagination makes the

mystery even bigger. And if we go back to Jacques

Bela's control system hypothesis, that mystery is key to human

evolution from the time we created language fifty thousand years ago.

That's what most researchers believe is that humans didn't start

creating language untill somewhere between one hundred and fifty thousand

years ago. From that moment forward, we have evolved in

many different ways, not only language, but technology and our

religions of everything has evolved until we're at the twenty

first century. I have a personal feeling that we've evolved

for a reason. I haven't really pinpointed that reason yet

round and I've discussed it many times, but my feeling

is that the current AI technology, the LM technology, can

mimic humans so well that what if the mystery the

presence has been has been pushing this mystery on us

to create a different species a a silicon species, for example,

or something that mimics humans.

Speaker 4: I don't know.

Speaker 1: It's just for me since I'm a writer of science

fiction and fantasy.

Speaker 4: I find that.

Speaker 1: A very interesting proposition.

Speaker 3: I saw a photo today and someone remade it with

today's technology, and the original AI photo was generated in

twenty twenty three, and you could tell it looked real

in some aspects, but you could tell from three years

ago that it was AI. The new photo of the

same exact thing is very hard to tell that it's

AI now, And to me, that's only been three years,

and it's getting that hard to tell photos of being

what was easily able to be detect that it wasn't

real to things now that they're like, well is that AI?

You have to question everything now because it's getting so realistic.

And if it's that way within three years, what's it

going to be like in another three years?

Speaker 4: So we're just three avatars talking to each other.

Speaker 3: Right, That's kind of That's kind of where I go

with it, because the whole simulation theory is actually something

that I kind of get into as even I can

answer it in like religious aspect too. There is a creator.

I was like, yeah, there is a creator, So what

if the creator is whoever designed what we're in, like

the world that we live in, our universe could have

been part of their engineering. So everything that we're guessing

and things that happen, and the strange things that are happening,

and there's all part of some sort of a code

that we're involved in this weird, strange simulation of a life.

But I don't think it's like the matrix. I don't

think we're just plugged into a machine. But the reality

is if we're able to evolve and trans for our

consciousness or whatever our energy and travel around and do

all these other things, it's almost like you're upgrading. Like

you said, when you go into these states when all

of a sudden you have this energy where you're out

leading ahead of people. Whenever you get this like state

of that's not a normal thing. So how are we

able to do that? Like for most people, they couldn't

do some of the things that you guys have talked

about being able to do. So it's like you've tapped

into something.

Speaker 5: So it's the opinion I have here is that you

get rid of the doer. The doer has to disappear

when people have these mystical experiences, near death experiences, the

doer the brand and the run and the mark is

gone and then you can call that the ego. But

the language part has gone too. That goes with it,

because that's what the language createss, the ego of the self.

And when they come back, they can't put it into

words because there were no words or symbols in that sense,

the normal sense. Because then and that's in the flow

state too, that the doer goes away. And that seems

to characterize almost all all these kinds of states that

are you know, even even the lucinogenics, that the normal

ego disappears and weird shit shows up.

Speaker 4: You know that.

Speaker 5: I don't know if if you ever had taken a trip,

but you know what I'm talking about, the mystical experiences,

religious ones, the self has gone and one is usually

one no separation with God or the soul, something like that,

and there's the language has gone again.

Speaker 1: So the language is what languages explains the world around us.

If you think about a cat, the cat never tries

to explain the world around it. Cat just sleep, gets up, eats,

chases mice, goes back to sleep, you know whatever. It

just does what it does. The cats three blocks, yeah,

I mean, And if you've ever taken a dog out

for a walk dog is all over the place because

everything is absolutely in the moment for it. But humans

are unique in that we have language, and we use

language constantly to explain what's going around going on around us.

So right now, each of our brains is looking at

an image on the screen. I know this is only

audio for the people listening, but each of us is

looking at an image on the screen, and we're explaining

what's happening through language. When Ron talks about the flow state,

when you're in the flow state, there is He's right.

The brain turns off the brain which is constantly explaining

to us with words and symbols, which other species don't have,

the only species on the planet that has words and symbols.

Those words and symbols go away, and whatever happens happens.

There's no goodness to it, no badness to it.

Speaker 3: It just happens.

Speaker 1: When Dmitri touched me and I fell down, I didn't

feel as though Dmitri was doing something bad to me.

All I thought was where am I going to land?

The earth seemed to have disappeared, And I mean, I'm

not even thinking that in the sense of how we're

talking here, that actually happened after I hit the ground

and they asked me what happened? I said, I tried

to explain it to them, but as we have found out,

going into the flow space, you can't explain it. The

moment you explain it it it disappears you need it.

Speaker 4: You need itself to explain it. Yeah, yeah, just the

way we talk.

Speaker 1: We had a We had a guy who wanted to

experience what we were doing, and he brought a friend

who was an actor. And I find that actors are

fabulous at learning things. They seem to just get rid

of their ego the moment they need to learn something,

and they just learned it. Any rate, this guy had

never worked with a weapon called a joe. It's a

Japanese staff. It's about fifty inches tall and an inch

in diameter, and we were doing a flow state exercise

with that. He'd never done this before, but he went

into that flow state and he was working with I

think it was with Dimitri. At any rate, we watched him.

He was perfectly in sync. Now, Dmitri is an expert

with the joe, knows how to use it. This guy

had no idea how to use the joint, never used

one before. But suddenly he's in complete sink sink with

Dmitri and they're moving effortlessly around each other. He puts

the joe down. They stop. The guy puts the joe down.

He looks at us and he starts crying because he'd

never had that experience before and he couldn't explain it.

Speaker 5: So he wanted to have this experience for a long

time as a meditator. His name is Lonnie Woodley. He's

the father Hylane Woodley. You know, an a listening actress.

You know who she is.

Speaker 3: She used to the Data or was married to Aaron Rodgers,

wasn't she.

Speaker 5: Well, she hung out with Aaron Rodgers. I get to

meet Rogers as the result of that that didn't work out.

Uh so, yeah, this was you know, the dissolution of

the self and the contact with the truth of whatever.

The greater truth that showed up for him was something

you know, seeking. But all he had to do is

get rid of Lonnie. And it seems like there's about

the movement practices that we do in are kind of

like play martial arts make it occur quicker than you know,

sitting on the couch.

Speaker 4: For sure, as you.

Speaker 5: Can sit on the couch like he had done, you know,

for nearly twenty five thirty years, never had the experience

that he was was told was available to the truth

of who he is or whatever you you know, however you.

Speaker 4: Want to frame it.

Speaker 1: So one hundred thousand years ago, before we created language,

were we were in that state most of the time,

just in that state, in that flow state, most of

the time at one as a hunter gatherer, whether we're

in a clan situation or a small family group of

some kind, you're in that situation all the time. All

the technology that we've developed in fifty thousand years, it's

very difficult to get into that into that state. You're

driving in your car, you're going to the bank, you're

this technology makes it very difficult to get into that

flow state. So that's what makes it so unique to us. Now,

it's not that unique to a person who like a

hutter gatherer in the in the Uh, in the Amazon.

They become one with that forest in that moment. There

is no thinking of, oh, I'm going to have a

huge meal when I catch this this deer. No, they're

just simply in that moment.

Speaker 5: So there's there's a research now suggesting that Brandon and

your Mark, we're in that state when you were children,

before you knew language, m hm, that you're you're naturally

in that state. And but it's also the state in

which you just learn language. Nobody teaches it. You pick

it up by hearing them, which goes to the another

idea that the l ll M structure, that's the heart

of the you know chat, JBT and Claude and all

those that we have one operating too. That's how we're

talking to each other. It's auto regressive in nature. So anyhow,

perhaps you know we we somehow another we can connect

with the time, the brief time when we were kids,

when before we got language, when we were just in

the everything was play, everything was just you know, you

have any kids. I have four, so you know, you

know there's that time when they're just three as can

be right, Yeah, I've got I've got two teenagers and

seven year old and as soon to be five year old.

They're they're just transitioning out of you know, the Glorias

state one's with the universe, and then of course they

get to be teenagers, then they get to be social

animals and watch out.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a fifteen year old daughter and a

thirteen year old son.

Speaker 4: Oh so you know that then too.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a adjustment. We'll just say that

before we've been going on for a little over an hour,

before we wrap things up. Is there anything else you

guys would like to discuss before we talk a little

bit more about your latest book?

Speaker 4: Now, I think.

Speaker 1: That we pretty much we're starting to repeat ourselves a

little bit in terms of the Jacques Belat idea of

presence and mystery the flow state. So yeah, let's move

on to the high Strangers of Bigfoot.

Speaker 3: Is this something that the book? Is it something that

you guys have been talking about for a while.

Speaker 5: And started last summer when I did the first actual

control what I call the C six Protocol, and all

this weird stuff showed up that were recorded. And this

was a place in the Rockies that had no paranormal

It wasn't like a Bradhaw ranch or anything. It was

just an area along a creek, you know, in the mountain.

And then I took it to dont Shasta, which is

just the opposite. It's probably one of the most noted

spiritual places, and the presidence showed up in a different way,

and so I did. I did a movie of this,

because you know, that's what I do. I make movies.

But I could not get into the historical aspect behind

these phenomenas, such as the origin of music, which is

auto regressive. Probably these humans that developed language were doing

music first, which is auto progressive means the right note

has to follow the next note. It keeps building that

way because they could beat drums or you know, and

that and trace these histories of the mystery how the

paradigm shifts along for the next innovation and technology and

a new paradigm shift and you get new instruments, and

then it shifts again. And so the book really expands

on that whole aspect, plus also telling the story of

what happened at these two sites. That's kind of the essence.

You can watch the movie on YouTube, you know, High

Strange is a big foot and last I checked, there's

over eighty thousand views on it, which is.

Speaker 4: Pretty good for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 5: And then the book has got the same title and

you can find it on Amazon and Barnes and Noble,

all those good places.

Speaker 3: Make sure to include links in the show notes for

anyone listening.

Speaker 4: That would be really good.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So Ron has the actual experimental experience, and he came

to me because I was trained as a historian at

the University of Cincinnati. So then he asked me to

investigate the historical aspects of the high strangeness of Bigfoot,

where we get into the origin of language and how

the presence manifests itself throughout history, from what I would

say is to individuals for most of human history to

the present day in the twenty first century, when thousands

of individuals are coming forward with these kinds of experiences

thanks to the Internet.

Speaker 5: So, for example, the Bigfoot is sort of an archetype

in a way. It's the Harry wild man or how

very wild woman who's free, you know, in the in nature,

and there's a bit of us wanting to be that still,

you know, And I think the Bigfoot that we see

is kind of like that, that archetype, and that's in

our mind, you know, the subconscious or the collective conscious

of all people. You know, there there other types like

the father or the mother that we all share. And

one of the ways the presence to move things forward

quickly is to shift that collective consciousness archetype in some

way for everybody, because everybody seems to have access to it,

at least in the way some people think about it currently.

M there's a mental aspect, not just the physical.

Speaker 2: You know.

Speaker 3: The more I've gotten into a lot of this stuff,

the more questions keep popping up. And that is one

of the biggest frustrations I have, like doing my show,

doing the things that I do, and I've realized that

the answers that I'm looking for, I don't think I'm

ever going to get. And that seems to be the

thing with a lot of people that go down this

path is we're always searching for answers, but we're never

We're coming away with more questions. We're not getting that answer.

And we've talked about this a little bit earlier. It's

like we're we keep evolving the question like it just

we're not. It keeps the human nature to keep wanting

that mystery we have. We want to solve the mystery,

we want the answers, but it just keeps changing to

keep us going.

Speaker 5: That's the idea we're expounding in the book and the movie.

Speaker 3: M hmm. I think I said, I think it's definitely

something that I'm going to end up checking out because

it feels like it is right up my alley. A

lot of the stuff that I'm the path that I'm

going down myself, my own personal journey. I feel like

this is something that I can relate with.

Speaker 1: Good.

Speaker 3: Well, we can probably wrap this up. But for anyone listening,

where can they like? I do you want anyone to

be able to reach out to you? Guys if you

have anything coming up that you're going to be at

or anything that you would like to let the audience

know about.

Speaker 5: Uh, that next conference I'm going to be at is

it in all the Illinois at the end of June.

It's the Great American Ghost Conference. Okay, do you like ghosts?

Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm going to send you an email with a

link to my documentary. It covers a lot of the

stuff we've talked about it as paranormal. It's got UFOs

and it's got cryptis all in there, all from the

small area, so I think you might find it interesting.

Speaker 4: I'll tell you. I'll reply back with the link to

Jensen Media for you.

Speaker 3: Okay, I appreciate that.

Speaker 4: So you should come to all not that far away

from me. You could drive there.

Speaker 3: Do you happen to know what date it is? I'm

booked on June twentieth. I'm doing an event in Indiana

that I'm speaking out.

Speaker 1: So meanwhile, if people want to read the book, they

can get it through Hangar Publishing or they can go

to Amazon. It's at Amazon. And the movie Ron the

movie is available on all the different platforms. You're Ron

handles the movie. I'm just the author or co author.

Speaker 4: On the book.

Speaker 5: I'll send you the information on that conference.

Speaker 4: And Okay, you know where all Dent, Illinois is. It's

kind of across from San Louis.

Speaker 3: Okay, yeah's probably about three hours away from I'm in

north central Indiana. So is the documentary available only on

YouTubers and on all the other streaming platforms as well.

You okay, well, it's been a pleasure talking to you guys.

Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having us on. It's been great.

Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you guys very much. If you would like

to be a guest on tenfoil Tels, remember to send

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