Listen To A Murderer Control The Interrogation

Listen To A Murderer Control The Interrogation

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Speaker 1: Welcome to your top true crime hob for the variety

in episodes you're looking for enjoy. Did you take my

word on it? If I talk with him? And now,

I'm not gonna confess to nothing until I understand that

when you take my word, out'll get your get your.

Speaker 2: Hub, keep getting matched, your hands together like this, and

then those custom cut into the time.

Speaker 3: And if you want to move in and set your

feet up from for a hot second, go ahead. Okay,

we'll be back with you in a second. Okay, but

you're not hurt.

Speaker 4: You go to the bathroom water anyway.

Speaker 2: I'm good, all right, Thanks.

Speaker 1: You're doing a little bit. Yeah, is that? I'm right

to meet you? Do you guys need something? Just plus not?

Speaker 3: Okay, I want to detect it from Jackson County. So

I just want to talk to you just to give

your side of the story. I'll always know there's two

sides of that. I'm only getting one side. I obviously

talked to a lot of different people today between last

night today, and I just want to hear it from you.

Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot of explanations for life

things happened.

Speaker 3: So I'm asking your permission if you just want to

let you know what happened.

Speaker 2: I have no problems on you everything as far as

anything you guys want to know. But I was also

told if I came to collobated, I get to see

my wife and hug my wife.

Speaker 1: She was promised that as well.

Speaker 3: Okay, so before you say anything to you, can I

read your your marine right, it's just what you know

your rights, And I.

Speaker 2: Just wanted to state that before I said that, because

once you read me my rights, if I say.

Speaker 1: Anything about it, attorney, you guys got to talk to me.

So I don't want you to have to do that.

Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, is I just want the side

that was already said that it was gonna be taken

care of about your officers, that I could see my

wife and hug her, and then.

Speaker 3: Before probably for me, you know, I can't make any

arrangements as far as hugging your wife. Is san Jackson

right here, Okay, I can see if we're going to

make some arrangements on that, I'll have to get granted.

Speaker 2: Raptis to cooperate that the other wanted to tell her

that is she is she could be coming on cooperatively.

Speaker 3: That well, that sounds like that's something we can accomplish.

Speaker 1: Okay. So before I ask you anything, I do want

to read your ranger rights. Okay. I just want to

let you know what your right side. M hmm, what's what? What?

What would you like me to pull it? Does that work?

If you want to call me Brian? I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: Okay, Zach. You have the right to You have the

right to remain silent. Anything you say can it will

be used the instru in the court of law. You

have the right to attorney to a lawyer and have

him present with you before or doing any questioning if

you want a lawyer but cannot afford one, or will

be pointed to represent you at publics sense.

Speaker 1: If you were can't pretty real well?

Speaker 3: If you wave your right to remain silent and later

wish to stop answering questions, the questions will stop. If

you wave your right to have a lawyer president and

later change your mind, the question you will stop until

you have talk with your lawyer.

Speaker 1: Do you understand your right? Given these rights in mind,

you are you reading with talk with me today? Yeah?

As long as I can to see my life. I mean,

I'm not gonna talk about as long as Grand Rapids

cooperates with that, I have no right.

Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk until I talk until I hugged,

because I know how that goes.

Speaker 1: Like, I mean, she can say exactly, try to do

whatever I can.

Speaker 2: You already got stable where she's in Grand Rabbit's not

too farm. We talked, so I mean she detective or not.

I don't know if it was an officer that sent

I have detected. So don't know that they can make

sure that.

Speaker 1: We can hug and I can say, should you take

my word on it if I talk with them now,

I'm not gonna confess to nothing until until.

Speaker 3: I understand that when you take my word that I'll

get your get your hug and get your talk to

her if I can get them to a retel.

Speaker 1: I don't know that I can get her right to

second here. Well, I'm just saying I'm not gonna I mean,

how does that work it? I mean, you can say anything,

I mean, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: That's like we're out of a standoff because like I

could say anything and then it's like, oh well I try,

or they said they were better, but this, you know

what I mean. So that's The only thing that's important

to me is I know my life's over. So I

want to huld my wife goodbye. I want to give

her a kiss, I want to talk to her for

a minute. And they already say that I could do that.

That's one of the reasons I can't even cooperatively. So

I mean, I just want that.

Speaker 1: And once that's the filled, so I know we're not.

Speaker 2: Like, I'm not being bullshitted because that's already been told

to me. My wife's not gonna lie say they said

that I can hug you and see.

Speaker 3: You with that illive that and I totally will tell

you that I would let you do that.

Speaker 1: Well, I mean I believe you would. I'm just saying

I don't think much anybody. Let me say if I

can get that at the range, all right.

Speaker 5: Like, Hi, hey, we're just talking about him, right, I'm

detectives a brisk network for the gramms.

Speaker 6: I understand you want to talk to a young lady.

Speaker 1: Which young lady? Okay, common law wife, Mary wife. I

can tell you this.

Speaker 6: His partner and my partner, one of the guys that

has already spoken to her.

Speaker 1: Today is on their way there. Okay, But you know

It's not like we're just going to go across the

street to McDonald's.

Speaker 6: Right, it's gonna be a man. Okay, So they're on

their way. I'm not you're gonna lie to you, right,

I mean that's they literally just left, and so I

just texted them. They're gonna when they get there, they're

gonna see if she want to come here. Okay, that's

that's what's in the meantime, can we talk to I mean, I'll.

Speaker 1: Answer a few questions that you guys, and I'm not bullshitting,

but I'm not. I'm not gonna be get a professional tell.

Speaker 3: You that that's fine, and as soon as she gets here,

as soon as they get him, she gets here, he'll

bring her in.

Speaker 1: Even if we're the matter where we're at that question, well,

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna answer to these questions.

Speaker 7: I have nothing.

Speaker 1: You guys gotta realize this. And I'm just being one

hundred that's all I am. I'm not gonna lie to

you guys. I'm not gonna bullshit you guys. I keep

a shoot.

Speaker 2: I'm gonna come straight shooting. You guys can make my

life that oh you can't whatever say doesn't do nothing

to be right now, I'm nice old stand listen, I'm

not answering the question. I know my wife's old. So

all I'm saying is there's one thing I wanted to

I'm more Bible touch my wife again, is to get

my wife a hug and talk.

Speaker 1: To this off.

Speaker 2: That's the only thing that's grounded me for this whole

little process I'm going through, and then I.

Speaker 1: Have no problem going back until a year from now.

Speaker 2: I'm telling you every little thing I've done and didn't do,

it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: One charge or a million charges. I'm over.

Speaker 2: It's don't work whether you guys charge me with one

charge and I found guilty.

Speaker 1: Other I get found with guilty at fifty fifty charges.

It's the same a lot of time.

Speaker 2: It's the same when I'm thinking me, So it makes

me no difference if it has to uh.

Speaker 1: Staying Katie Barron or the killing something, it doesn't matter.

I to do the same amount of time. Purty, see

what I'm saying. So that's all I wanted you guys, do.

Speaker 6: Realize got text Like I told you. It says we'll

see if she wants to command their on their way

there now Okay. So the only thing that Brian was

thinking and that we were thinking, is it doesn't do it.

You know, we're gonna send somebody there.

Speaker 1: They're already on the way. As soon as they get there,

we'll have an answer. She says, no, what do you

want to do. She's not gonna sing though.

Speaker 2: Okay, but if she does, and I mean, I guess,

I guess she needs to tell me that I can

call it.

Speaker 1: Should should do it over the phone. Over the phone.

You can't hurt her over the phone. But that's what

it's all. That's the only thing that's important. You guys understand.

I'm going through a thing.

Speaker 2: And then my wife and I have to separate for

like nine ten months now and round at birds like

probably probably getting wars after this, and like we haven't

been on good terms. We finally start talking. So and

that's the only thing that's important to me. I don't care,

and I can professor nothing, pull a lawyer up, and

I just both throw it.

Speaker 1: That I had no problem that need.

Speaker 2: I'm just saying if I can benefit out of it,

because to me, it's one of the same, whether I

get found good to you, I fucking still I can't

borrow myers ten years ago or whatever.

Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I want to do the same my time.

Speaker 2: I got like fifteen fucking bunty, So I'm definitely whatever

I get found, it doesn't matter to me. If it's

a murder charge or if it's a gun charge, or

if it's a shooting in my wife's house charge me

any of that stuff.

Speaker 1: It doesn't matter with me.

Speaker 2: I don't know a problem professional all of it, because

to me, it's just gonna get over wit faster anyway.

Speaker 1: But at the same time, I got one thing, that's

my wife. You know what I'm saying. How can get

the color of goodviding and get kiss you can buy

yesterday today. That's all I want to do. And make

sure what's gonna be all right. And that's it.

Speaker 2: And I don't care about any of this. All the

other stuff rebot it, you know what I mean. After that,

it's like whatever, you know what I mean. It's all

wanted to say. And I have the best lawyer in

Grand Raptors, which is on frist Day, and it's a

good friend of mine. You call him in a minute,

Andy'll be like, shut up, Th'll say nothing. I understand

all of that I'm not a dumb individual, none of

that stuff. But I also got a bass degree in psychology.

It's not like you guys tell me when thing, it's

like convinially of it.

Speaker 1: And that's fine, and you guys might have to that's

the tensions in the world, and you get right to

your word. That's what you try to do. It's something

to go around with any time to last. And I'll

still sit sit on.

Speaker 2: Hold the bay and I'm not that's not.

Speaker 1: Not arguing that. He said, you did a lot of talk,

and you talk pretty fast. You go on. I mean,

you know, I mean, I'm nervous. I'll have her has set.

I know, I mean, I just I appreciate it.

Speaker 6: All I can tell you is they just got here.

Literally they took time to go to the bathroom and

come in here. And with the minute one of those

guys went out with one of our guys to go

to go.

Speaker 1: Scooping to scooper up. They're on their way. That's all.

That's all I can appreciate that.

Speaker 6: You know, like you said, like he said, like I'm

telling you I said before, doesn't do us any good

to lie.

Speaker 1: Yet He's gonna do his best I'm gonna do my best.

At the same time, I'm not gonna lie to you

down I'll just shoot it straight. I'm saying.

Speaker 3: I'm just I mean, and that's one of a very

important thing always to me, any time of conflidence somebody,

I'll be always one hundred percent honest with you. I'm

not gonna bullshit. I'm not gonna lie to you. Maybe

it's not something you want to hear. I'm gonna be

honest with you. If we can, we can do the

same thing.

Speaker 1: I respect that. I'm just saying, you got a job

to do that. You know what I'm saying. I understand that.

I respect that. I'm not trying.

Speaker 2: You guys didn't do nothing to me personally, so therefore

I don't have no like, no reason to be an

asshole or no reason to be I mean, I have

me every reason that is American decisions to be on

cooperative and let courtious douce.

Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter to me. If it doesn't to

me no more. I mean, I'm arrested. I'm gonna spending

less spress of my life in prison for one thing

or another.

Speaker 2: You can charge me with all the charge you say

you got right now, and then when as time goes on,

you got more charges because ship you guys don't.

Speaker 1: Even know about, so you can it's one of the

same me, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Like, I got fifteen families to get the charges of

digitual and it's ten to twelve years minimum.

Speaker 1: To me, I fixed. I'm forty three years old and

forty four. I probably did twenty one years in prison,

you know what I mean, Like, that's the rest of

my life. I don't care.

Speaker 2: That's why I wasn't gonna come cooperateive. That's why I'm

gonna make you shoot me. I mean, that's not something

I want to I mean, I'm glad for whatever had

shoot me, you know what I mean. I mean, that's

whyever it's tie his fault, go home to tell the

day or his son or whatever, right, because that's why

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: That's the only thing that's important me. That's what I'm saying.

So I'm doing this for one purpose.

Speaker 2: You gotta know one purpose up port purpose only, and

that's my wife. She begged me, and she said it

would be more important to her.

Speaker 1: If I didn't do that, it.

Speaker 2: Would be hurt worse because if I did come out

and just I wasn't gonna shoot y'all, you guys didn't

do nothing to me. But I had to make you

guys believe I did you wanna shoot me? And to

me doing the rest of my life a prisoner or

I ended up dead, I'd rather be dead, I mean,

just being honest. So to me, it made no difference.

The only thing to stop that happened was my wife.

So that's why that issue with me hunging.

Speaker 1: Or is important. Sure you probably are been a grading

town a lot of gratitude.

Speaker 2: Sure, that's I mean not really, I can still can

still be still deserved that it's still be to be

determined because you know the house is gonna go.

Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend the rest of my life in prison.

Speaker 2: To me, that's I would whether you guys shot me,

you do twenty one years in prison and you tell

me you want to go back there for a day,

let them go on with.

Speaker 1: The rest of your life. I can't say that I've

done that. If I can't, but you haven't done nothing

to deserve that either, you bet out of the rest.

Speaker 2: Of I'm just saying I'm not saying that hy Me

pity party. That's my mentality, just to let you guys,

you know what's going that and anything I tell you

guys are I'm gonna tell you guys, it's fashionally to check.

It's gonna be fat. And I don't have no reason

bullshit you why for what purpose? But I'm not a game,

you know what I mean. I'm not like they have

the games.

Speaker 1: A hunt of my life, casse my life. That's it's

something thing I got. Well, I'm hoping that she's gonna

agree to that. I think it. Don't think she she

cares about you and I'll pay it. Sounds like she would. Mhm.

Speaker 6: Those cuffs are uncomfortable that year, Yeah, it seems silly,

but that year might be right.

Speaker 3: That's got a hole where the hans go. See what

I'm saying, if you live in a small dog.

Speaker 1: Okay, I'll ask her for any kind of particular recognition

or thanks or anything. We're gonna bring her in. I

just want to make sure there's gonna be no possible Okay.

I just want unobs something. What about on her side? Okay,

but you understand, I don't you got a baby in

her rhymes. I don't want to get into any kind

of predicta that is you ever to anybody? Okay, I

guess nice, alright, pitt your s what happened? Stand up

with your high poplus hip hop?

Speaker 2: Pa?

Speaker 1: I can't play it. You gotta have kisses. I'll have

a little kids. You playing a game?

Speaker 7: Ah?

Speaker 1: Is that a good? Who is your hip hop?

Speaker 7: Plus?

Speaker 1: All the day?

Speaker 4: Fat day?

Speaker 1: Have a good days? Thank you getting so big? Yeah,

love my momy m, loving my momy.

Speaker 7: H.

Speaker 1: Can daddy get a little bough? Can daddy get a

little though?

Speaker 4: They get a big old.

Speaker 1: Do they love you? What the day? Look you did?

Look be dead?

Speaker 7: How?

Speaker 1: Oh?

Speaker 2: No?

Speaker 1: I love you?

Speaker 4: Said guy?

Speaker 1: Alright, I guess I need to break it up. What

you gotta do with? Alright? Thank you guy?

Speaker 4: Okay, you uh.

Speaker 8: Go ahead by my lothers than you guess, thank you

for that.

Speaker 1: If you want me, he's a keep a little ned sure.

Speaker 3: I think twenty five years have never done anything like that. Alright,

let's with out of our words. So I hopis it

could make it happen longer, but of course as I can't. Okay,

thank you very much. I'm very appreciative who.

Speaker 1: He didn't want to kill two birds with one self.

So if you can send them an you talk to

them on your instiday or any guys, I'll.

Speaker 3: Stop uh, I'll have I have him to stop at

We're just ask for her. I'll make sure she gets

back to her truck safely and things like that, and

then he'll pop back and you're okay. I don't know

if she knows where she's at or where she's going

down here, but we want to make sure that she

gets in her trucking on her way.

Speaker 1: So he'll be right back. Thank you're a guy, talk

to her. You're right, okay, Hey, you will you want

to get started on?

Speaker 3: Okay, let me just go through this. I know we

talked about it once before. Of course I don't hear

my reading glasses, so this is a challenge. You have

the right to remain silent. Anything you say canon we'll

be used to get you in the quarter. Will you

have the right to talk to a lawyer and have

him present with you before or you're in questioning If

you want a lawyer but cant afford one, one will

be a pointed to you to represent you at public expense.

Speaker 1: If you wait. Your right to remain silent and later

wish to stop answering questions. Questions, questions will stop, just

let me know. If you wait, you're right to have

a lawyer present, and let you change. I'm the question.

You will stop and tell you him talk with that lad.

Do you understand? Yeah? Okay, So tell me what happened

with the I'm nonfish though Paul I had been like him.

That's a mic like he had been high. I think

he's smoking a crack or something. I'm not sure, but uh,

he was like.

Speaker 2: Nose out and he kept coming in the back bedroom

where I was staying and like laying the pistol around

and and saying, who's in here?

Speaker 1: Who are you talking to? I hope somebody's in here?

Speaker 2: And then like the second or third time, I mean

I kind of got it insulted because it was more

like if I want to ask some inn, I ask

something Indian or which you talking? If you go in

the front door the vegeta right by the fireplace or whatever,

there's a yeah, there's a measure whether it's the right,

you know, I talk about that, and then and then

to the left there's a like a I guess it'd

be your front room.

Speaker 1: A big ass. It's almost like a favoring room. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And then yeah, so in a measure right there on

the right when you first go in, that's the only

other bedroom he's out of the paying floor. And so

he kept waving the pistol. You're come in with the pistol,

little waving like they pointed at me. Like at one point,

I think like the second time he came in or something,

he kind of waving towards me. I was like, don't

want to fuck the pistol.

Speaker 1: At me or some shit. It's just kind of like

a guy like back and forth, you know, can pisto? Yeah,

because thirty eight okay, So he uh, he comes in

there with that and he's like kind of waving around.

What was your ever said about it? Year? And somebody

well he probably had something, but I didn't move.

Speaker 2: And then I found out like the third time, I

want to say it, the third time he came he

got this guys coming in there like who's in here?

Speaker 1: Like what the fuck?

Speaker 2: Maybe fifteen twenty minutes, who's in here? You know, I'll

be Astley And I'm like like, so like a third

time or something in here and he's like, I know

she's in here. I said, who the fuck you talking

about and he said, yeah, which is like a girl

that pumps every once in a while. It's you know,

she not seeing with another biker or whatever whatever. But

he's kind of like her. He like he's kind of

like infatuated with her, like kind of like I want

to look after like some weird thing. He wasn't having

sex with it, so I don't know some weird thing,

but if she stayed at night and stuff like that,

to say, the same bed stuff.

Speaker 1: But anyways, like I know she's in there. I was like, man,

Arno was talking like and look around, like stop me, like,

I don't know what you're fucking what you're doing when

you're bugging out. He can set to himself like I'm

just must be bugging out. I must be bugging out.

Speaker 2: He's looking under the bed and he's looking all through

some stuff and I'm like, bro, b, she gonna hide it,

and They're like, come on, dude, get a grip.

Speaker 1: And then so, uh I heard. I don't know if

it was probably fifteen.

Speaker 2: Twenty minutes later, I got plucked somebody out in the

front like went out the front room.

Speaker 1: Would be B and B.

Speaker 2: He's first coming to the door as a kitchen and

the and like a big open dining room, and I

like a hearing stalking somebody in there, which would be

like if you open my door and you'll see right

out there pretty much.

Speaker 1: So I was like open the door and not fucking nobody,

and I'm like, uh, hey.

Speaker 2: Bro, what do you here talking? And he was like

a nothing, and I thought I heard something out here.

He shut there's nobody in there, and I'm like, hey,

there's nobody, and then he uh was like outside, I

can hear him outside. And then so I get up

to come out there with you, and I'm like, you know,

what's you know, what's going on here or whatever?

Speaker 1: And she's like, there's something out here. I know for

a fact I heard, you know, I heard coughing over

by the chicken coop, and.

Speaker 2: So we had he was We go over to the

left side of the porch, which was you're facing out

towards the road to be the left side of the

beat and then that's the way, like the driveway and

stuff hid on that side, and there's a chicken coop

and we go over there and look over there, and

then both of us go him and I both go

walk around, and then we go back into the house

and I laid back down, and I thought he was

going bags.

Speaker 1: He's like, I'm just it must be bugging out, you know,

it's getting to me or something. She was like, uh,

let me say something like.

Speaker 2: I must be losing my mind or or these motherfuckers

or something about it. They must take I'm losing my mind.

They're not gonna trick me like that or some shit.

I was like, what are you talking about, because like,

never mind is just go to bed, Just go to bed.

So I go back in and go to sleep, and

well half asleep, half sleep whatever, and then you talk

about what time it is.

Speaker 1: When I went back and go to sleep for like

what time when I woke up? All this, and then

the other girl that was there.

Speaker 2: There's two other girls that was there. I think about

eleven thirties, so a man the left to the mom's

house or boyfriends whatever. And then.

Speaker 1: After whatever, that was all.

Speaker 2: Upstairs a little short, so I want to say she

was upstairs at the time, so I was wondering.

Speaker 1: If she was like talking to her and stuff. And

then so that was I laid down the first time about.

Speaker 2: Probably midnight twelve thirty or something, and I want to say,

he's like okay, I say he wanted to join us something.

Speaker 1: But then I heard so that kind of put me out,

and then I woke back up to walk the ground

with him.

Speaker 2: I would I don't really want to know. I'll say

I looked at my clock, but it was probably two

o'clock or maybe a little bit after summer at that

time that we, uh, we walked and I just kind

of like sweeping the ground to see if, like who

was out there, if anybody was out there or anything

like that, and then I went once to figure.

Speaker 1: Out who was gonna be out there.

Speaker 2: Of course, I go back in and I'll take me

probably not too long to get back to sleep, because

it was really late at this time. And I hear

like two distinct gunshots downstairs, but that was after I

heard a band.

Speaker 1: I think that's what woke me up and cut.

Speaker 2: I don't want like a bang, like a like I wanted.

It wasn't a gunshot, but it was like a crash.

And then I hear gunshots. I want to say two

to three. I want to say two, then the third,

like it was like two and then three.

Speaker 1: And by that time I already had I had a gun.

I had a gun. I kept at forty kil and

I chomped out of bed with the forty KL and

cot it.

Speaker 2: Like door entrance, and he had just had thirty eight

in the end, and he said, motherfucker, I'm gonna kill you,

and I mean party was talking about me. So I

shot him twice or three times. Maybe he was coming

in the door. He had guns coming, Yeah, he was

coming in.

Speaker 1: The front door.

Speaker 2: And then he was yelling like something like motherfucker out

like he was agitated for sure, and he had the

pistol like drawn up, and so I shot him.

Speaker 1: And then I'm not sure I have him kind of

fastened and so emotion like at the same time. It

was all that kind of a blur. So I shot him.

And then like after I shot him, was a gun,

but it wasn't. After I looked closer, I still I

just know it wasn't a gun. He was coming out

of the pack, and so I turned towards him and

shot him or at him right. I don't know if

I hit him the first time because he turned and

when he turned to that kind of getaway, I kind

of ran back towards him, and then I don't know

if he was trying to raise the gun or on

what he was trying to do, but I shot him again.

That was the one that was in the doorway. And

then like but it was kind of like far I

don't know, trying to make it make sense, and it

all happened like a blur, like so fast, and then

I remember shooting it was in his hand or whatever,

they recognizing that it wasn't a gun, and then like panicking,

like looking around and being like, you know, what the fuck?

Oh my god, what the fuck? Now? All my clothes

and all that stuff in the back room, but I

didn't like I was just thinking like of the panic,

like what the fuck?

Speaker 2: So I went to run downstairs to see what the

you know, with the gun shots or whatever it was downstairs,

and that kind of fucked me up. So I was

like fucked up behind that I ran and watched what

I ran back upstairs about like kind of like panicking,

like I don't know, and I went upstairs. She wasn't there,

which was kind of laughing at me. And I didn't

have no cut I say, for you say, that's the.

Speaker 1: One fare with me? Yeah, I hadn't had a ride enough.

Speaker 2: And so I went back down full slash keys or

whatever on the tedule and took his truck and just.

Speaker 1: Like go away.

Speaker 7: And then.

Speaker 1: After I got a little ways away or whatever, I

called my wife and just told her that it was like,

you know, just trying to talk to herself. And I

didn't tell her what I did. I just told her

I did something bad. Now I didn't know what to do.

And then you know, he's the shoes he shot.

Speaker 7: Somebody used to shoot at me, already shot at me

and something like that, did you shooting?

Speaker 1: I didn't. That's shake in the front door. But I'm

not like I said I was. I was just sure.

Speaker 9: I just know I heard a bang, like but it

wasn't a gun bang. And then I heard shot for

sure too, like at least two, I want to say, two,

and then a third two and then a pause and

then the third blunt shot.

Speaker 1: Do you think you know what he was doing or

do you think he was like wigging out and thought

of something broke and he was like people winging out

the whole you know what I'm saying. He'd been winging

out like the whole night. He'd been like he didn't know.

I blurred like I should even think.

Speaker 2: That's when I first heard the noise, you know, what's

going on, and that I just kind of like, it's

just I seem that he was like on the steps

to go down to his house. So I left right

and I got right back upstairs because the side doors

right there.

Speaker 1: Like whether puts you out to the driveway, I am

lots the door.

Speaker 2: I went out to go check on him, and I

seem like what I mean, almost immediately, you know what

I mean, Like, I seen he was on the steps,

So I went.

Speaker 1: Back upstairs to see so he was. It was he

all the way up the top of the stuff. So

was he like I want to say, like mid stuff. Okay,

I don't think he was. Like so what did you

take with you? You took his wallet that was in

the car. I didn't take his wallet. The walls bill

fold the wall that bill folds like a chain kind

of connected thing. So yeah, I guess I didn't take

the wall because it was not a chain to like

the key, but it's not.

Speaker 3: But they were like the string nice person, No no, no,

no no. It was on the table, on the table

in the basement, on the table. So he took his

wallet and keys. Well, yeah, they were connecting the woman.

Did you use the credit I use a credit card.

I first got the brand raps at post drive.

Speaker 1: What a credit card the only one in there. No,

there's a couple of them in there, but for the

debit card and stuff.

Speaker 2: I used it for gas where I want to say

it was. It's not post drive. It might have been

post drive gas station or something.

Speaker 1: But his post drive, well it's a different exit, like

the Great Rapids you got. Post drive is the exit

you got, like it's the drive. It's an accident. Yeah,

po gas station.

Speaker 2: It's like going right before you got on the highway

to go farther north, like you can't get there's not

another gas station for a while before Rockford and all that.

Speaker 1: But I don't know something, you know how as you was,

there's like forty five bucks forty six bucks or something

like that, and and gas you put in And what

day was that?

Speaker 7: Yes?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yesterday? So did you guys? Did you guys straight

the Grand Rapports when you off? Yeah? I started driving

aimlessly and just like I kind of like I didn't

put them too, like I just kind of gravitated towards you.

What do you think time you got the Grand Rapports,

you know, I nine o'clock rock, I stayed in the

night plot.

Speaker 3: Did you pass any police officers, like in the area

where we're getting into the I like I took.

Speaker 1: Right off like a panic, and then just took like

I was trying to get out of there. Did you

go to north out of there? Or I went I

wanted to turn off to drive me, you would go right, okay?

Speaker 2: So he went down that way, and I've remember taken

him left and that, and I honestly couldn't tell you

what the rection I gorove after.

Speaker 1: That because I was just like you fuddled. I was

fucked up. I waited for a little while and then

I called my wife and she kind of grounded me

a little bit. When you got the Grand raptis work

at nine o'cline or so, where did you go? Try

to go? Try to go to his mom's house and

she wasn't home. And I tried to go to one

of our mutual friend's house and he wasn't home. It

was Sunday. Forgot. I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 2: It was probably the ship had it was early two,

it was ten, probably ten, because I talked I sat

there and talked to my wife for like an hour

in the parking lot.

Speaker 1: Then when this is after I went to Kent home,

and then before, No, it was before.

Speaker 3: So then when you went on those three places, nobody's

home where you you know? Rather you guys found me

on second Street okay, I mean third Street?

Speaker 1: No, no, No, I went to the car. I went

to the car park first off Post Drive park there,

but there's a live traffic coming in and out, so

I didn't want to stay there, so I ended up

going to Did you tell me what happened? No?

Speaker 2: I just told you I need I need to chill

for a while. And he just gets asleep or snow peaceful,

and he's like, what's up.

Speaker 1: I told me I didn't want to talk about it,

and he said, okay, did you tell did you tell

you why?

Speaker 3: No?

Speaker 1: Okay, just what you tell her? I just I don't

want to get her any troubles.

Speaker 2: What I'm saying, she didn't anything to try to help it,

trying to make sure nobody else got hurt, tied in her.

Speaker 1: So she's the reason I came in peacefully. So sure

what happened to the We didn't find a gun there

any other hand guns. You got both.

Speaker 2: You had both guns by now if they did this,

they did everything they was supposed to do with they

supposed to.

Speaker 1: You got both guns. So you took the other guy

that thirty eight okay, thirty eight and then you have.

Speaker 2: For where were they okay, behind the little couch and

both of them yeah together?

Speaker 1: Mhm. Where did you get your forty from? I got

my friend of mine? Okay did you buy it from? No?

You get it? Okay? The thirty eight net was yeah

he's had Okay, how long have you had the forty?

A while? I had a nine in the forty, so

I had it for like it was a month ago maybe.

Speaker 3: So what did you all take after the ends of

the appened? You took the wall at the keys had it,

took the keys in the wall which were chained together,

and the thirty eight.

Speaker 1: Then thirty eight. I took cops right away from that

after you went back and shot in the second time, No,

that was I didn't go back and do that. It

was a shot.

Speaker 3: I'm saying, I just like, did you hitt and you

think that the first the first two you obviously did?

What when you after you shoot?

Speaker 2: She was like saying like he's still kind of like

saying ship like harmony or whatever. So that's what made

my mouth worried about. That's why I remember the gun

in his hand and worried about that, like he was

gonna try.

Speaker 1: To shoot me or something. So I shot before your time?

You think you am? I'm not sure he did. I

think so twenty times? Do you think you're shot? Dash?

I don't know what did you end up having in

his hand? It was like a pipe or something, I think, okay,

like a lead pipe or something. I'm not I just

know it wasn't a gun.

Speaker 2: Sure, I always got key Adie and he's got he's

got the ball, and he's got a couple of shotguns.

Speaker 1: And I know he had guns. And that's what I

was worried about, like I didn't know what was going on, motherfucker.

And it was like they're all brothers in the club.

So it was like, you know, what did I do?

What did I die? What?

Speaker 7: They?

Speaker 1: I don't know. There was no justification.

Speaker 10: I mean, but I didn't want to.

Speaker 1: Get shot either. Did you know the old guy that

lived on No, I didn't. So when we found him,

he had a gun like kind of couped into us

and he made it. We found him.

Speaker 3: He was at the top of the statup. I didn't die, right,

but he had a gun like it was just a

little daring er he was. Wouldn't done much damage when.

Speaker 1: He had that. No, I didn't know that. I didn't

shoot him anything. But you were buying you, I didn't

know you sold I went. I mean, did you ever

know any had a gun with you an anytime when

you're living at I mean they all, I mean they're

a munch of old packers weapons at all times. You know,

they definitely all like as far as I knew any

about to move back? On how long did you stay there?

I stayed there off and on. I stayed there at

that time.

Speaker 2: I've been there a couple of days, but before I

stayed there like a month, and then I stayed there

a couple of weeks before that, just because just kind of.

Speaker 1: Like I run and just sure got it. I never

had no problems though. Did they checked around or help?

I helped drive first? Wrap off? Okay, what's help? Or

were they all would like because he had a separate apartment.

I think it's because sure, don't I think when he

come up and party with them when they okay, so

they're pretty tough. All they did. They have a lot

of traffic, traffic, so definitely they pulled. Sure he had one.

That's once in a while, as he used somebody had

used math recently because there was still in his bedrooms.

Speaker 3: There was still some stuff his bedroom when you walk

in the first and then he had some more in

a drawer. How long did the three of them live there?

When he he was living there, when we had the

big party, when the people got and when did the

other guys move in?

Speaker 1: You know a lot of time. There's another guy that Okay,

he had that back bedroom. I was talking about that

I was going to be staying okay, but then we're

gonna stay in there too, So how that was gonna work?

Speaker 2: Yeah, he was getting back there. And then this time

when I was gone for like two and a half,

three meets me did.

Speaker 1: That all he was?

Speaker 7: All?

Speaker 1: I came back and I felt the pack and then

like what happened to him? You know? Pretty cool man?

What how did you meet him? Where? Where's your connection

to him? A friend who knew him, like like domin

there they going into the place to stay. So he's

like I got the perfect place where he was out

of nowhere. Nobody bothers you out here. It's really cool,

and it was cool the first couple of times I got.

Speaker 2: Like the second time I stopped because it was like

too much for a track, Like too many people going

in and out, and I was just like, that's just

not that's just gonna get you called a church.

Speaker 1: Who was that the one that introduced you? He seemed

like a pretty decent vi he hap to be.

Speaker 3: They they were all hanging out at like the place

north of there, right next door. He's part of all

talking about the house north there.

Speaker 1: Yeah, old girls, he's part of it. He's in their

club too. It's just north that he's not part of

the club. Okay, he led me to believe he was. No.

Is he full of ship? Yeah? Crazy? Like well why

he told us? Oh I was so dark I couldn't

see who did it? Okay, he's full of old day

he's pretty now there guy. Is that a pretty decent club?

I mean, you know from a second clubs you're here

are panda rock. But those kids all seem pretty decent.

Speaker 2: I mean to say, sure about it and every right,

and they really cause no problems.

Speaker 1: Or having like real beat. I mean there's people coming

out to beause mostly because the girls.

Speaker 2: They're protected that then you know what I mean. It

was like some girls are the problem with guys that

come out there, and then you know, make sure the guys.

Speaker 1: They await for them or whatever.

Speaker 3: So so we did recover some some rounds in each

one of the individuals. We found some casings. Thirty eight

is probably not going to inject the casing. It's it's

typically a revolver, right, I'm assuming that was a revolver,

so we'll be able to match up and if if

the if.

Speaker 1: So, especially now that we do have They did.

Speaker 3: Recover a couple of guns over to your buddy, the boy.

Speaker 1: Guns that you there. You said they were behind a

blue like that's where they they found at least the

forty and then assume they said they found So anything

else you can add or anything you want to add,

I mean that that I can think of, like right now,

like it's still like blur in my mind now just

trying to like this. It's just like ever and pretty.

Speaker 3: Much everything you told me proves to be pretty accurate.

Obviously we were in the belief in and I don't

know that.

Speaker 1: We're not the belief the ballistics would tell us that.

They'll tell us if if your gun wasn't used. And

I gotta think that because I would think that you

probably had the forty would I don't know why you

would have. I mean, I guess it's possibly you could

use both guns, but it would be unusual.

Speaker 7: Can you agree with that?

Speaker 1: How many times do you think you shot all together?

I mean, I know I answered the clip okay, did

you reload?

Speaker 6: No?

Speaker 1: Okay? Did you have an additional magazine?

Speaker 7: No?

Speaker 1: I think I have the one bullet left in there

else me.

Speaker 2: And and that was it.

Speaker 1: Okay, So your your thought was you were gonna at

some point you got on knew that last bullet. Well,

I'm glad you lost me just to shoot the internet.

You guys shoot me. I have tried to kill myself before.

I feel to do it.

Speaker 3: Well for your son's sake and your your wife's sake,

more importantly, your son's sake.

Speaker 1: I'm glad you didn't do that because your son will

be able to see you, because they will come at

some point. I don't know how prison works, but obviously

you do. But I would think at some point he's

gonna be able to come busy. You did they let

him when they're young. Well, for his sake, he's he's

not gonna know any different initially, any anything I can

help you with because I, like I said, you appreciate

your honesty, your cooperation. I mean, you could have made

this difficult for me. You didn't, and I appreciate that.

Speaker 2: There's gonna be things you probably as far as like

these little details. There are a little questions you had,

and I'm fine about that all you.

Speaker 11: Know, You're right, there's probably gonna be one or two

things I didn't think to ask today, And you're cool

with me coming, Like I said, as.

Speaker 1: Long as I'm as long as like you guys have

held up here in like, we'll bring my wife in

here and do what he said and he might orders

the pizza.

Speaker 7: I know that.

Speaker 1: So I'm just a man of my word that if

if it's upheld.

Speaker 2: On both ends of the house, our relationship right now

is I will always be unless you change it.

Speaker 1: I would ever change it because have no reason to.

I have no reason to change either, and that's just yeah,

that's but yeah, I think you have more questions. A

couple of no mean nuthing wrong here? All right, I

do have to do one thing just like he did.

I heard him do it. But my policy, I'm going

to read your cot so I think.

Speaker 4: It l side.

Speaker 6: I mean, you stay champions, issue original presence of the

words before journey and if question if you wish a

laarrior and cannot afford on the court fun report questions

when you're staying right, except just like we were ready before, right,

why don't you turned off? I'm gonna be brieved because

I'm not. You know, you were listening and I was listening.

I've been here talking and even straight up I got

a question for him. Do you remember you You actually

alluded to it earlier. You said I shot out her

windows or a slider. Can you tell me about how

that happened?

Speaker 2: I was she would were going through this custody table divorced,

and I started going through the like not divorce, but

a custody like a battle with it. And when we

first sebbration, she gave me full custody my son, I

added for like six eight months something like that, and

then she took him. And then when I had a

warrant for well, I thought I had learned for domestic

or something, and she got temporary order of relief. Then

she wouldn't have seen and I hadn't seen for like

two months. I had seen my son, so like, I

tried to get into.

Speaker 1: Her glass door of her house, the back door, and

then I.

Speaker 2: Couldn't get in, and I seen the camera that corner,

so I shot. I shot towards the floor and shin

of came around what I thought was the camera?

Speaker 1: Where did you shoot? Nine? And what did you strive

to getting the door a crowbar? Remember whether nobody was hurt?

Speaker 2: No?

Speaker 1: Did you ever get in?

Speaker 7: No?

Speaker 1: Just shut the windows. There was just that one window.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that window, Okay, that was after I broke the

crow bar first though, broke the first and show.

Speaker 1: Is that night on me or one of the same

ones that you know where that guy is? No, I

don't know how hams okay, And I mean an idea.

Speaker 2: I mean somewhere Brands County Branch, Yeah, fucking Branch County does.

Speaker 1: That's why I was messing around that out there, and

I gave it to one of the guys out there

when I got my forty kil okay, so you train

it basically.

Speaker 2: I mean i'd had forty ko for a while, and

I was like, I wanna keep this nine and keep

this forty kill.

Speaker 1: I said, alright, alright, fair enough, can you tell me

what happened? You were drying an.

Speaker 6: Excursion and man, I had that explorer maybecause.

Speaker 1: It happened right around the same time as uh she

had my son.

Speaker 2: I had seen I'll fall into a park to go

with small blun roh bah blah, and she was coming.

Speaker 1: Out of the part.

Speaker 2: I knew she'd be in that area usually because she

exchanged kids with her other baby dad at that time

or whatever. So I used to be in that neighborhood

a lot, like seeing her. I can catch her or

something with my son, because we was playing most of

the next snatching at that point. She hadn't have a

temperate she didn't have a costy whatever or nothing. So

it's like, whoever has to custoy the oil, he has

custody the other if you know you did that baby

sitter or not, come and get you.

Speaker 1: And then I got custody, which is fucked up to him,

you know. But I hadn't seen so I was. I

seen her and I've seen it the baby seat in.

Speaker 2: The back, so I kind of like ran her off

the road and cause and tried to get amount of truck,

you know, staying myself back.

Speaker 1: But people started coming out and stuff like the U

you ran the vehicles? Yeah? Yeah, so that's why I

got off the road. Was had in front of her

vehicle and pushed her to the side. Okay, that was

the only ones I was gonna touch based on I

don't even know. I don't even know if.

Speaker 6: They're worth it, you know what I mean. I'm not

gonna lie to you. You you know the totality, you

know what the enormity of what's going on. I know

you said, uh, did you tell I?

Speaker 1: I didn't. I I lived that the pieces were here?

Did did you tell them where the guns are? Where

are they? I told him? I told him the car

with that. He said, we already the guns were too.

I already do You'll find that? He and I usually

asked questions if we are really interested.

Speaker 6: Damn before I'm actually going to come in here and

ask ten questions and leave? Is there anything else you

feel like you want to get off?

Speaker 1: Your chesty charges? Is that two charges? And is that

the only charge? I? No, I can tell you this.

Speaker 6: I don't know everything I know you've got some previous

warrants and some of them for some of this, and

I don't know everything. I honestly haven't run what all

your warrants are. But I can tell you that at

this point my sergeant me this sergeant kind of made

a determination that the most important thing to address currently

would be what happened to Jackson. So you'll probably go

to Jackson, not the maybe the prison, but eventually to

start with the Jackson County jail. So what you're charged with,

if you're charged with the Kent County or Grand Rapids case,

we won't go to get in front of the judge

maybe never maybe maybe after a long period of time.

So your charges are probably gonna be more related to

whatever you guys just spoke about in Jackson.

Speaker 1: I looked a little bit.

Speaker 6: I don't know, there might be some stuff. I think

the idea of you're willing to clear some stuff up.

Speaker 1: I'm willing to. I'm willing to work on that. I

can do a little digging. What I'm willing to do,

I can.

Speaker 6: I'm gonna come you in front for a minute, and

uh so you can eat because I'm not gonna feed

you like the baby, but you're gonna stay comfting.

Speaker 1: Bottom line is is that you should tell me how

about every day.

Speaker 2: I'm not a I'm gonna try to do something out

then did it for one and for two, if I

didn't want to come in, I would and came in.

Speaker 1: You gotta shot. So I'm not argue any of that.

And I feel like I may have offended you when

I said that. What I wanted you understand is that.

Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that you're not You're not offending me.

What I'm saying is defensive that you gotta keep explaining.

For one is not your calls four o'clock probably, but

for two of your boss that's keep me because I

don't know how much fully you've got. You gotta keep

me in the cuse it's not a big deal to

me to be in customer.

Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

Speaker 6: So what I'll do is I'll go U sit tip

for a minute, and I'm gonna go grasb some piece

of pie or a piece of pizza, and I'm gonna

grab some nampkins that I'm gonna appreciate.

Speaker 1: There's any more that I mean, I thought if charge,

I don't know what else I thought I was charged

with but I.

Speaker 2: Thought, I know that the famous vehicle is a big deal,

and I know shooting into the ready this west, so

I don't know if there was anything else beside me.

Speaker 1: I just wanted to clear it up. I'm not gonna lie.

I stopped looking. Got it's it's small as snificant, so

that there may be something else I've lost.

Speaker 6: Probably can tell me when I get out of here.

But break down down is what you said. Some questions problem,

So I will go grab some pizza and I'll be better,

and said, day you got so I probably didn't really

have any additional question for me. The one thing I

forgot to ask you that I thought of is the keys.

Speaker 3: They get credit cards there, though.

Speaker 1: I don't know where we did yet. I had to

think of that for a minute. I was scrambling around,

and she said that there's the keys are in the kitchen.

Speaker 2: No, they're in the same on the guns, right, but

there's a small little a little uh we fred like

a little many fish on the top of the.

Speaker 1: Yeah, credit card, you know, you're not certain. I'll think

of it. I just can't think of it right now.

That was kind of a blur. Yeah, like Parkinson. Look,

sure day he put the gun in his hand or

a joke. Weird? Did you ever see his most erriagory? Yeah?

When I saw that, I'm like Jesus, I did I

give him CONFU? Oh yeah, got what's the deal with? Uh? So?

Speaker 2: Uh?

Speaker 1: What was the It's kind of creep out you. You

probably don't even use that muscle order or whatever that

points at the window. That's uh, there's gonna Actually it's

a really expensive lot. I forgot with there. They were

gonna have the National Party. They got the National Party

come up soon, and they're gonna raffle it off. Oh,

gonna raffle it because then I mean all funds I

think that was gonna stand up for me.

Speaker 6: Mister Doyle here is going to he's gonna do that.

What he's gonna do is, uh, one hand's gonna.

Speaker 1: Come on from the top of your head, on your head,

and then uh, all this.

Speaker 4: Army is gonna switch go ahead, So.

Speaker 1: That really so.

Speaker 6: Let's switch it, ok. And then and when we layel

the sight, those those are actually your down hums.

Speaker 1: You did that? You think I had seen you shot up? Interesting?

Speaker 6: I don't know if there's anything did you guys go

your anything. I mean there's some questions that if little stuff.

Do you remember what you were wearing when you were

down in Jackson?

Speaker 1: Well, I mean when that stuff happened. Yeah, what I

got to say close take home all right? Literally? Yeah

changed the whole time. Did you shout? I just it

was yesterday. Did shout? You're shouting? You take the gup front.

You can do the gum potter. But my question is

if it's the same clothes. You guys may want Jeo

Greens and you may take the clothes. If they want

to do it down there, we'll do it down there.

Even peace and playing that up, I didn't think about that.

You want me to put that off?

Speaker 3: Or you got to put with the King of customers.

He's like she's supported of you again which school? And

it's like you've mended that fence.

Speaker 1: I don't know. So there's gonna be a long, one

long process. I think that's a lot of damage done.

Oh the separated like me ten months now, okay, but

you're still married. They wanted us. Well, it sounds like

that she gets some hope still, or she would have wouldn't.

Speaker 3: Have ten months A long time to not find or

guess both of them.

Speaker 1: She had some hope.

Speaker 3: It was really good with these late nights in twelve all.

You know what, even when I was young, I couldn't

do past midnight. I usually worked at three to eleven shift,

and I was good with that. But that's off to

take you a whole day.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved it. When I was younger, we do

twelve hours now. I'm obviously not out of the road,

but I liked the three. It was fun. Yeah, I

thought they did twelve now to two.

Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much most agencies, dude, because you get every

other weekend off.

Speaker 1: When I was you know, we got Tuesday wind that

was our weekend. Oh okay, you know you you guys

is a happy days off and house really working. Like

there's a twelve days at twelve every twelve or two

weeks or something.

Speaker 3: You work seven days every two weeks seven oh okay,

so fourteen every month essentially.

Speaker 1: Alas like nurses like twelve.

Speaker 3: On, but they do they two days on, you, two

days on, two days off, three days on two days.

Speaker 1: You get certain really Friday, Saturday, Someday else. So whatever.

You work one week, one week, you work five days

the next day you want to work. Well, he could.

He found the keys, but you couldn't find that predate

bard What is that? I want to say that right

there about that? But could it be in the truck?

Speaker 7: Still?

Speaker 1: Could you guys just don't remember, Okay, christ in the truck,

I'm not sure, okay, fair kah, trying to go down

the same car I drove. I don't trust anybody else.

There have been an accident. Oh yeah, I've been in accidents.

Matter matter of fact.

Speaker 7: I was.

Speaker 1: I worked.

Speaker 10: I worked at as the best argument for a while,

taking it out in the road much because work at

an overtime assignment in the car, and I don't know

what the hell I was thinking, And so I do

going down to Michigan AM.

Speaker 1: I see a violation. So I do a U turn

in Michigan AM, which is not unusual. You're supposed to check,

make sure no one's in the other laying. Hey you check.

I hit this car or she hit me. I can't

remember what.

Speaker 3: It's obviously clearly my fault. And the girl just kind

of goes off on me, and I felt bad to

be in with and we go in the parking lot.

Speaker 1: Nobody was hurt. We're going there. It was probably ten

years ago, and I said, ma'am, I'm really sorry. You

know my fall well, you know i'll be up fall

in the report and.

Speaker 3: And insurances, you know, cover themselves, but you're in your insurance,

can do my insurance.

Speaker 1: So I'm so forth and she just keeps going up

on me. I'm like, man, I'm really sorry, and she goes,

after she settled down, she goes, it's not you, and

she's like, well, she said to me, you please, she's

supposed to know how to drive. And so I said

I'm sorry, and she finally said, I just would have

an a bandaged She goes, I literally got my Now

you've listened, Now go do your thing.