Gig Gab, episode 537 for Monday, June 8th. Name your poison day, 2026.
Oh, is that what we're talking about, like, our vices poisoned?
Greetings, folks, and welcome to GigGab, the show by, for, and about working musicians.
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My guest co-host for today is a member of a duo, an organic duo,
who they are a recording project.
I want to talk about this, but I don't think you play live, or at least not
much. The main goal is the recording thing.
Rand Lampert from The Broken Rings, thank you for taking your time with us today.
Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, man. Absolutely. I'm glad that I'm glad you reached out.
I'm glad we're doing this.
You you it's it's it's you and your your bandmate Gio that that that comprise the Broken Rings.
You are a two person band.
Do I have that right?
That's correct. Predominantly, Gio and
I carried the bulk of recording and performing the songs in the studio.
We have friends that will put bass on it or maybe a keyboard track and whatnot.
But drums, guitar, vocals, that is all handled by Gio and myself.
Okay, got it. And how did this project come together?
Gio and I have known each other probably for a good 15 years now and uh,
I'm originally from Houston, Texas, and we met there when we were in a band together.
We met in a band that I joined, and we kind of just hit it off musically.
Sure.
I would say 95% of, we agree on 95% of music.
That's.
It's a large, it's a large percentage.
That's a good Venn diagram to have. It is. You don't want 100,
but you also don't want zero, right? Right.
You need a little uh friction sure yeah sure uh we uh we consider ourselves
musical kin yeah you know it just kind of we really we agree on aesthetic sound uh just,
kind of hit it off yep you know and uh so we started out in one band and then,
kind of strayed away a little bit and then we started another band in houston,
and uh then we both moved he moved he's originally from uh tampa st petersburg
and i was from houston but i moved to new orleans okay yeah so a few years went
by and uh i wasn't doing a whole lot musically,
and not so also i was always the drummer okay and in every in every project i was in oh.
I mean same so you know yeah kindred spirits uh there we go there
We go and.
You know maybe this is it's not summer yet but last year it just worked out
here on gig gab that that we had what i called drummer summer where like three
out of four guests that i had it was like oh wait you're also a drummer like
okay like i guess like we'll just do it
Yeah it's a scourge that's.
Right yeah yeah well we find each other we
Drummers right actually.
I have a story to tell i'll share a fun little story about the the drummer kinship
but but but please i uh yeah
Continue yeah uh so i was playing drums in a band in new orleans and then that
kind of went the way it always went and uh i had always kind of,
played around on guitar.
You know, you get to know as many bands as you're in. You get to know guitar
players and they'll show you a few things.
Sure.
Chords and whatnot. And I was always, deep down I wanted to always kind of write my own stuff.
Okay. And so I contacted Gio,
and I said I have some songs and I made a couple little mp3 recordings on on
my phone just guitar and vocals and cinema fees like I think we can do something
with that, you know, and so.
And then, I guess, long story short, we committed to, okay, let's do this.
And we're like, how are we going to do it? I live in New Orleans. You live in Tampa.
And so, obviously, travel is the only way to get it done.
So, he would come out. So, he came out. So, the first batch of songs,
the first nine songs that we recorded is an album.
He flew out to New Orleans. and we cut drums at my friend's studio.
Who his name is Derek Dufresne he also put bass on it when it was all said sure
yeah so we cut drums send the files out to him in Tampa we go out to Tampa we
cut guitars Derek's putting we send it back to Derek he puts puts a bass on
anyways it was a lot it's always been,
a labor of love because it's it's required a
lot of travel in fact he's coming out to
denver in two weeks so we can start tracking
drums for another batch of songs but it's
it's definitely been you gotta love you gotta
love this to do it because uh it's it's
not simple we don't live in the same city we don't get to rehearse together
we basically come out work on
work the structure up a little bit and go and then
we'll probably go back out to tampa i
mean i can i mean i'll probably cut some guitars here because i have the setup
now since i moved out here but been in denver like two years okay
so i have more of a setup here now so
i can at least do my guitar parts here sure and uh yeah it's just been you know
i guess we finally released the first batch of songs in february of last year
okay so we've done one full length and two singles wow yeah and uh so.
I i gotta ask because i i well because i'm gonna ask but i also know people
listening here are wondering about this.
With the way technology is, and you even sort of reference this a little bit
that you can, you know, you could both record without each other in the same
room or even city or even state or even country. Right.
And and then assemble the tracks together and still be extremely collaborative.
Yes. Well, not needing to travel like you.
It seems like the two of you have decided that travel is your preferred,
a preferred part of this project. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But, like, have you experimented with maybe not doing the travel and doing the,
you know, remote asynchronous kind of thing?
Or something like Lootfish Stream.
Like, I know you're further away than Lootfish says you're supposed to be to do all that.
But, like, Lootfish is one of these devices. is I'm going to test it out more folks, but, uh,
but it, it, it, it's, it connects to the internet and lets you play in near
real time with people that are like 500 miles apart or closer is,
is their sort of recommendation.
So I get it. Yeah. Uh, I think part of it for me is the romance of the travel for it.
Like, you know, the.
The it's the muse of
the yeah i mean i think everyone has become so
reliant on the technology it's like just send me the files and there's
no there's no interaction there's still got to be some interaction with each
other yeah too especially if you're cutting live drums i i don't feel there's
really any other substitute at least having someone playing bass or someone
playing guitar with you to do it even if it's uh you know you know the recording
process even if They're just scratch tracks.
They're still to get the drum track.
You want someone in the room.
Could he put a guitar track over a click track at the BPMs that we've decided
upon and send it to me? Of course.
But I'm like I said, uh,
The relationship that Gio and I kind of have is of the romantic and the classical
and I'm on the romantic side.
He's like, why would we go to a studio? We can just get all the gear and do it ourselves.
I'm like, but wouldn't it be cool to go like travel to a studio and still do it?
No, I get this. I mean,
there's the, like you said, the emotional romantic sort of,
you know, know the muse of it is is
its own valid reason but also
you know and now i'm certainly speaking for
myself when you have
the setup that we all can
fairly easily and fairly inexpensively have
in today's world with technology where you can easily
record on your own you're not
i am less apt to dedicate time to
it like when if we book you know a three-day stint
in a studio my schedule is clear for
those three days because we've booked a studio whether
it's in my town or you know three states over it doesn't matter like i i am
i am not available to do other things on those days where if it's like oh you
want me to put down some some drum you're ready for me to put down some drums
great okay uh i could probably do it tonight you know and then tonight nah i've
got that thing okay well, I'll do it in the morning.
You know, like the process winds up going much more slowly.
It does.
And, and so I, like I, I, and there is something to be said about being in the
same room with other humans. I mean, it's, it's,
It's why human aspects still need for me needs to be.
Yeah.
Prevalent.
I, during COVID, I am far more, it's funny, I was having this conversation earlier
today, but I am far more likely to choose to play music live than I am to play in the studio.
I love both, but my sort of general inclination is to play live,
and it's because I really like that interaction. I like the feedback from the crowd.
I like the without a net kind of feel of playing live.
Like you know you make a mistake that's great you know get
it out of your head because you're still playing buddy you know uh
and but like when
i when i'm recording i love it and one thing
i have done when the either
the choice or the logistics dictate that we
do it separately is i will
lay down um if somebody has laid
down guitar to a click great i'll play along with that
otherwise you know i can assemble some version of
a scratch track or or you know i can
i will lay down drums but i know that
that first drum part that i lay down even
if i work to you know to perfect it is not is likely not to going to be the
final one because what i want to do is give everybody the opportunity to play
with my drum part to play against my drum part and track against my drum part
And then I take it out and I get to play along with all of them.
Okay.
And so like it, it, it's an approximation of what you're talking about here.
We're, we're not in the same room live, but there's this, they're reacting to
me and now I'm going in after the fact and reacting back to them.
And, and it can work like it, you know, it makes it feel less sterile is maybe the right way to say it.
That, that, that I think, that,
the beauty of the technology is that we have so many avenues to approach recording.
Yes.
I agree. I think that's, that's kind of kind of dovetail on what you said,
because that's a cool approach being able to use the technology.
Yeah. And I'm not paying for studio time. Right.
So it's not like it's, it's my time, but you know, which sometimes can be hard
to wrangle, but you know, yeah,
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, like they said, a million roads to Rome.
Yeah, yeah, there's no wrong way. Well, maybe there is. There are many right ways.
I can get to that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
I just, it's, I think what Gio and I have kind of surmised from the first batch
of songs that we did that way because of the travel and time constraints when
he would be there is we feel it's a little rushed,
but there's also an urgency that's kind of there too.
There's a little, a little tension in
it too because it's it's we got we
have to get this done i think there's a fine line between that being
rushed and creating an urgent
tension and uh
that's i think that's why we're we're really
proud of what we've accomplished it's it's been
no small feat it's been like i
said there's been a lot of travel and uh but
it's worth it for us because this is this is
how we want it to sound and also with the
technique of recording we keep our tracks as direct as possible to to kind of
go on to what you're taught like with his guitar tracks yeah guitar tracks especially
he's just using maybe a dragon you know morally dragon to wah yeah maybe be
a little something for a boost.
And the overdrive is like 95% air.
Okay, sure.
It's just so, but that's what we get from.
Recording guitars yes like going
In and micing them up the old-fashioned way yeah and keeping the digital aspect
out of it for as long as possible.
Sure sure yeah are you now i well i mean i'll say it i assume but i could be
wrong that you do you record to digital or are you going to studios where you can record to tape we
Are we are we do record.
To digital yeah okay Well,
I guess there's in the chain.
Oh, I get what you're saying.
Yeah. So and even upon. So that's kind of our approach is that.
I guess we're all kind of going to digital at this point.
Sure.
But I guess keep it as.
Preserving organic as possible.
Preserving the analog in the digital world. Yes. Yeah.
No, that makes sense. I mean, I, I, you could certainly track electronic drums, right?
And, and like it, arguably that might be simpler. I don't know.
Like I, I think there's, I think both are, they have their own complexities, right?
But there's a, there's a friendly debate argument that I have with,
with people like, why don't you just learn how to program easy drum?
Drummer yeah i said i said i said okay well how many how many hours upon hours
does it take to really perfect easy drummer when i can just cut drum.
Tracks right no that's the thing is i i i spent decades learning how to do it
with the sticks in my hand people are like wow you're a nerd you must be able
to program drum charts i'm like i don't i've never needed to what i can go play it on the drums like
I mean it can take two three hours to program you know try and program a drum track and,
I could probably grab it in three takes.
Exactly. I was just going to say, yeah, it's like, I, what my,
so I'm actually, let's, let's nerd out because we're drums and we're drummers here. Let's do it.
Yeah. I'm curious. My, my process when I am, when I have my,
my druthers is that I would like to play a song through when I'm tracking drums for a song.
I will, unless I make huge errors but really even if I do I just play the song through
Three times I don't stop I mean I stop at the end only to rewind the tape I don't listen back,
I don't do anything I just record and then record and then record and usually
by that point I'll have a sense of like I think I've got enough to work with
but other times I'll be like no,
not yet and I'll do, you know, two or three more, right?
And then sit down and at that point, like it's still fresh enough that I'll
know, okay, take four is probably going to be the one that becomes sort of the like home base for me.
And then I might like every fill or transition from a, you know,
verse to a chorus or something, I'll audition all the other tracks and be like,
or all the other takes and be like, actually, you know, take two's transition
there was better. So I'll comp that in.
That's that's my process and i love it because
it i get to do it kind of all in one sitting so to
speak and uh and and still and
not having to punch in and out like everything was played in the flow of a song
sure it's just might not be the same flow right but right you can and digital
makes that so much more doable so i'm curious what's your process three takes but probably a
I think that we, I can tell when it's not, that wouldn't, it wasn't there.
I can also say, I don't know. What do you guys think?
Yeah.
You know, and then I'm like, let's just do another one.
And if it continues to kind of falter a bit or I keep getting off somewhere,
then we'll do punch-ins.
Sure. At least get, always get one full take.
Even if it's not your favorite take, get one complete track without punch-ins.
I think there's a good reason for this.
And I think for not just drummers, although probably most importantly for drummers,
it's like I want the end of the song to feel like you have played the entirety of the song.
Not you're coming in you know you've just
you just had a bio break like you got fresh water like
you're sitting back down you're refreshed because it's it's like there's
an urgency that happens at the end of a song when
you've played everything up to that now if you're
punching in the end from a take that it doesn't match
the other that's okay like you're you still have this urgency
of the end or the the bridge is you know the tension release or the tension
creator that is happening after two verses worth in choruses right like doing
the bridge separately i i think i noticed that there's a difference there whether
there actually is or not it's probably you know it's it
You know what you talk about nearing the end of the track that's when it can always fall.
Apart oh totally i've
Made it to the end i've.
Made it to the end and then yeah yeah off
The rails it goes yep.
Yeah yeah and that happens right but i will i i you know it you know and i'll
notice oh crap i sped up at the end like okay all right i gotta yeah maybe maybe i keep it
I could add that could add that again that.
Human that's what it's
Not crazy yes i mean.
I agree. Are you someone who obsesses about beat placement?
Are you a drummer who obsesses about beat placement? We'll be very clear about this.
Are you playing behind the beat, ahead of the beat? In terms of feel? No? Okay.
Okay. In that aspect, if I am playing to a click, I do like a little behind it.
Yeah, okay.
To give that little swing, that little, you know, I feel it being right on top
of the beat is so, well, right on top of the beat, and it ended up.
It almost feels robotic.
It that roboticness can be
a great thing like when i started playing i grew
up playing like jazz and rock and roll and and
you know a lot of that was was sort of
naturally just behind the beat some bands more than others some
styles more than others uh and then when i
lived in i lived in austin for a while and i too
oh there you go and i wound up playing i
want a friend of mine who had a rock band started a
country project and he's like i want you to play on that i was like okay great
and then he called me one day and he's like uh we have a gig saturday night
i need you to play on this gig i'd never done a country gig
before and i'm like oh this will be easy no country's not
no no no it's it's it's it's sparse
but that's not easy and i remember
as i was prepping for this gig it was like oh this needs
to be like a clock on the
beat this wasn't like modern country that's
really just rock and roll with a southern accent i have no
issue with that right like i'm delineating folks not judging uh and uh it this
was you know pretty pretty classic country and it needed to be that you know
that kick on one and three and snare on two and four and you had to be right
on the one and three and right on the two and four and that that's that
sort of slush that you can bring into rock and roll and blues that was not welcomed for that.
No. And also with countries, what you don't realize is how much the bass player
is doing to cover kick hits.
Yes. Yes. You have to be so locked in. Yes. Yep.
Yep. No. All right. This is good. This is good. All right. I'll,
I'll tell you my drummer story because I, I'm excited about this.
I am, I do these gigs where, um,
I, about once every six weeks or so, it's, we call it this underground band.
It's at the local theater here that holds about 300 people.
And we do shows celebrating the music of a band or a style.
One might call them tribute shows. We don't, but, but that's not, it's not incorrect.
It's just, you know, it's, we're just, we're just finding the music and playing it.
And uh the next one that's coming up is
yacht rock which it's which
is a blast for a drummer because like
these parts are and and and for the
other musicians too the parts for yacht rock songs as
most of us know are super complex and were played by
some of the best musicians that have
graced the the recording studios right absolutely
and they they sound much easier than
they are many of them sound much easier than they are and that's
kind of the whole point of that that that style of
music is it it's meant to sound relaxed and
easy and all this stuff but i knew i needed to prep
for this because if i you know if i left it till the last minute i
was screwed and uh but there were a few
songs where i'm like i can leave these till the last minute because these are kind of easy and
i made a mistake uh uh we had a rehearsal on
monday on friday was the first time That I
looked at the Kenny Loggins song This Is It I don't
know if you've ever looked at that song But I sat down at my drums And I was
playing other tunes Going along like okay Rosanna fine Reeling in the ears okay
fine great And then This Is It okay great I could just breathe through this
one There's no drum chart available online for it But I didn't You don't need
one for that song And the track starts
And I've listened to it in the car, mind you. Like I've, I've,
you know, done the osmosis learning. Sure.
But, but that's different. Right. And so I knew before we had a rehearsal,
I wanted to like play it through a few times so I could feel it.
And, and the track starts and I don't even know where to put my hands ran.
Like, I'm like, what the heck is going on here? I'm like, I've made a terrible mistake.
Let me guess. Deacon blues was next.
Uh, Josie was next, but, but yeah. Yeah.
And uh and so i was like oh no what have i
done and so i texted our keyboard player who
also finds charts and i'm like dude if you happen to come across
a drum chart for this just like buy it like i am i am
completely at a loss i came over here to the
computer and i started searching and i realized it was
like oh yeah people have discussed you know the eight different drum
grooves in this is it and uh and
then it said um you know people people
have asked tristan and Bowden about this and I'm like wait a minute we've
had Tristan Bowden on the show last year I know how
to get in touch with Tristan Bowden and the the community
of drummers saved my bacon uh I
reached out to Tris and he was very kind and I
asked him if he had charted it and I said if you have I'm happy to you know
buy the chart from you like you know I don't I'm
not looking for any freebies here and he said no
he's like I think I charted the intro once but I don't know where that is he says
but i did recently make a video of me
playing just that song and it's just to
demo the f note um electronic drums which
actually play really really well for electronic drums okay and uh
and he's like so it's a multi-cam shot and there's nobody else in the room it's
just me so you can just watch me he's like i guarantee you watch the video and
it'll all make sense and within five seconds of starting the video i was like
oh i understand now it like there's something to be said,
like hearing some weird pattern of,
It's really not that weird when you see how it's played yeah right you know i'm i'm
I'm definitely a uh i've never had i've never had the best ear.
Okay yeah yeah fair uh so
I i really need with technology with anything.
Yeah you
Got to show me how to do.
This yeah it's
Not you know i'm not it's just some there's there's a a block or a.
And and i i'm sure this is true with
every instrument in its own way but with
drums there's an interesting thing right where every
drummer's drum set is set up for that drummer it might it might look similar
and it probably is similar but everything's in a different spot because you
know we're different heights our arms are different lengths our sticks might
even be different lengths you know like we have different tension
On the kick pedal.
Different tension on a kick pedal different height on the stool some people
like a bouncy stool some people like a you know a screw stool like a different
height on the hi-hat different flex on the high like all the little tiny things
not to mention you know how you tune your drums and they feel different under
your sticks and all those things
and so i and i've had this issue when i played like theater gigs where people
are like oh you gotta play it just like the the you know just like like it was
done on broadway or something It's like, if it's a simple part, sure.
But if it's super complex, it's like, you don't, I like, I will do my best,
but it will not sound the best if I am playing someone else's part.
Like that was that person's body on that person's drum set.
And we don't have either of those things here. We have my body and my drum set.
And I can approximate this and I can I can suss out what needs to be there and
happy to collaborate on.
Like if I make a choice that doesn't fit for what you as the music director
want, like we can adapt that.
Give me a shot at this, of playing it the way Dave plays it with his body and
his drums, because it's going to sound smoother.
And watching that video of Tris play this, it was like, oh, I see his brain
works differently than mine.
It turns out, you know, great surprise, you know, but seeing how he did it and
like how he used open handed stuff where I was thinking closed hand,
you know, it's like, oh, yeah, I would never approach the drums that way.
But now that i see him do it and
how relaxed he is i'm like okay i can approximate this like you know yeah
Right because you may be hearing the drummer do something you think he's just
doing with one hand you're like i just can't get this done i can't get this
done then when you see them do it they're like no he's just doing.
Yeah it's super open and relaxed and that's what that song starts like it's
just it's just you know upbeats on the on the bell of the ride symbol and he's
playing 16th notes between his two hands he just puts them on different colors
like it's you know It's fine.
It's like, oh.
Oh, and that's what it was. Yeah. I love that stuff. I'm a nerd about it.
But it's hard to do by ear alone at times.
Absolutely.
At times.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know some musicians who have, from guitar players to
keyboard players to drummers that just hear it and play it.
And they aggravate me.
Well, I mean, a lot of that, I think, is probably experience of having to learn
how to do that. Right. And failed at it many times.
And, you know, and then like, no, I understand. Like, I've I've heard that pattern before.
My body knows how to do it. I mean, if you hear somebody playing it,
you know, straight like two, four beat, you don't need to see them play it because
you know how you're going to play it already.
Yeah but when it's something intricate and and
in and i i mean i've seen i've heard in fact our guitar player was
talking about that with steve lucather parts it's like i thought
this part was really difficult until i found a
video of luke playing it and it's like oh it's actually easier
than it sounds you know and a lot of things are that
way it's just lucather you know it's right yeah right
like he he's really good at he's he's not like the best shredder but he he can
make himself sound like he is yeah otherworldly yes otherworldly yeah exactly
yeah yeah absolutely anyway i got us off on a tangent so
No i i,
It's all good.
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All right. Where do we go from here, Rand? So have you guys ever played live as the Broken Rings?
Not as the Broken Rings.
Okay. But you have, like, years of playing live together.
I mean, I toured nationally and internationally.
I played my first professional gig in 1994 when I was 19 years old at FM Station, North Hollywood.
Yeah.
Uh it's uh yeah i
was on the road i haven't been on the
road we the other bands i've been in over the past 15 years or so we we play
out of town but sure never really kind of uh crazy touring like i did back in
my 20s and early 30s uh what to hear a good good good touring story i.
Was gonna i was gonna say yeah yeah talk to me about that i've i've done i've
done limited touring i did months worth not years worth so i i'm always eager
to hear from people who who survived it longer than i
Could yeah uh so in uh 2001 i was on tour in europe with a band called sunny
james in the centers we were out of out of texas and uh,
On the flight back, we were 30 minutes from the continent when the first plane hit the towers on 9-11.
Oh, wow. Yeah, I was in St. John's, Newfoundland for five days.
Yeah, it was crazy. It was a crazy, crazy time.
Yeah, we wrapped up the tour. The bass player and I were on a plane, and yeah.
Wow. What's ironic about this is I had moved from Texas to Connecticut by that point.
And I was in Austin doing some client work and on my way to the airport while
you were to the airport in Austin to leave Austin while you were in the plane coming back to Texas.
And uh and i did not make
it to the airport i stopped at the post office to mail
something because it was heavier than i wanted to deal with with
luggage or something and i left my cell phone in the
car and like i hear people talking about what i thought was a movie they had
watched last night you know and then got back to the car and there were 15 messages
on my phone and it was like yeah that was no movie okay yeah yeah yeah so i
was so i was stuck in texas for four days i made I made it home for a Friday
night gig. It was a Tuesday.
Very good. Yeah. It was a crazy time.
That was a crazy time. Wow. Wow. So what did you do in Newfoundland?
Just hanging out.
St. John's, Newfoundland.
Yeah.
So...
Obviously you know it's a you're flying
over the atlantic so the cabin's dark you
know it's just like and all of a sudden all the lights the cabin
just lit up and i'm just like so this is
it right this this is because yeah
we don't know what's happening it's just like like
so so this is how it ends for me you know
uh and uh so the
lights came on and immediately the the captain came
on because this is all so very vivid for me the captain uh came on and said
you know we've been there's nothing wrong with this airplane but we've been
diverted to st john's newfoundland due to a series of terrorist attacks on the
united states and that is all the information i have.
And so they're dumping fuel because i was basically
sitting over the wing you know there's so we land
and uh they you
know they probably so this is a airport that probably lands maybe 18 commercial
flights a day and they landed like 37 yeah and so they're just planes all just
wherever they could wherever they could stack a plane and people had to stay
on their planes And fortunately,
for a scary reason, we were able to get off of our plane immediately.
For one thing, we were the last plane accounted for when they shut down airspace.
And once, so we landed and the kind of the tarmac stairs, you know, truck is pulling up.
And so they get us off the plane and they tell us that there was a threat called onto our plane.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. so we were able to at least because everybody else sat on their plans
for like eight hours to figure out what what they could do with everything what.
To do with all these people yeah
Exactly yeah uh the people of newfoundland they put it together in,
It's incredible what they did. So they got us off and got us onto a bus and
they're like, all you can take with you is your passport, your return ticket,
and clothes on your back. You cannot take your luggage with you.
We're like, cool. Okay. Okay.
Yeah. It is what it is. Right. Yeah.
And so then they process us, you know, they take us to customs.
That's right. You got to go through immigration.
I stamp our passport. I still have the passport by the way. Yeah.
With the stamp on it. And, uh, and then they,
process us and then they get us on another bus and they everyone at this point
we're all just reeling we're like i don't know what's going on they take us
to the hockey arena and they put everybody in sections per flight like your
flight number is section 105 your flight number is blah blah blah.
That might be the most canadian thing i've
Ever heard right we.
Don't know what to do what do we do with the people i don't know bring them to a hockey
Arena yeah and they had already had phone banks set up for us so we could call people oh.
Right yeah yeah
It was like it was crazy so but this is
about eight hours after everything happened and we finally
sit in our seats and we see the diamond vision with what actually happened wow
yeah so we sat there then they're like all right they called our section number
they put us on another bus okay and uh they take us to Memorial university of Newfoundland.
It's like one of the largest universities in Canada. Okay. Okay.
Sure.
And mind you, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a musician in Austin.
I live on people's couches and literally out of my van. Sure. Down, down by the river.
Sure.
And, uh,
So they take us in and they say, here's your meal card. You can eat in the cafeteria.
You can have breakfast, lunch, and dinner for as long as you're here.
I was like, well, this is better than.
Yeah. No, no rush. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
And, you know, in spite of everything that was happening and as terrible as
it was at night and, you know, I'm 27 years old.
I have a three-quarter cut leather jacket on, a Neil Young t-shirt,
jeans, and Chuck Taylor's on.
That's what I wore for five days.
Sure.
Sure. So daytime, we're all sitting around and just like bored.
And at night, students would come get us and like take us out.
That's cool.
Sure. Yeah. And take us out. St. John's is like the biggest,
I guess, city in Newfoundland.
It's not small. Sure. it's like you know 250 000
people it's not a small town so
it's like there was a lively nightlife so we went and did that all night yeah
you know then slept all day and then did that all night slept all day and then
four days later they're like okay u.s airspace is open yeah we're gonna try and get everybody out.
Yeah today
It's probably not gonna happen but i we managed to get out like on that fourth
day okay and we connected in chicago.
And that's dicey i i opted i i was able to i was one of the i'm one of the first
hundred flights that flew after the you know after everything shut down and i i
I had a connection in Dallas and then was flying back to Connecticut where we lived to Hartford.
And I opted, I started driving that morning. I kept my rental car, which was smart.
Yeah.
And I, so I drove from Austin to Dallas and then, and then just head started heading home.
And I decided that Texarkana, which is right on the border of Texas and Arkansas
for anybody who doesn't know.
Uh it was my just time wise
uh was my go or no go point
right like it when i got to texar can it was either i'm gonna literally turn
around and drive back exactly the same way to dallas turn in my car and get
on the plane or i'm just gonna keep driving and go home and i had family you
know researching things because you know there was nothing i could i had a cell phone that was it
and uh and and it you know it looked good
but even the whole drive back to dallas it was like well
i mean things could still turn the other way and
i mean i as i was driving into hertz or
whatever it was i you know i'm on the phone with my brother like are you sure
because once i give up this rental car i'm not getting it back like they they
don't have cars right you know yeah and and he's like yeah i think i think you're
good and it was like all right like i'm like here we go and sure enough it worked
it was you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah
We got to we got to.
Chicago geez and
Um we're like yes you know and they're like oh you're not getting out today.
No right it's why i didn't want to connect yeah it's like i had a rental car
i mean it drive to austin to dallas is three hours or something like it was
no no point i think giving up a car for that yeah yeah and
Then he said so they're like but,
here's your free night at the west and the o'hare western and here's your room
so i was like this is just kidding this.
Gets even better because
When i get back to when i get back to austin it's back
to you know i mean playing gigs five nights a week but you know can't can't
afford rent can't afford you know living on couches living on and uh yeah so
uh yeah that was uh that's awesome i think that's probably the there's all kinds
of shenanigans on the road but yeah.
I I was going to ask, I mean, so I think it's fair to say that none of us,
me included, expected your From the Road story to be that story.
I love that story. But might you happen to have another one that's not as good,
but maybe, you know, dealing with an interesting sound engineer or,
you know, kind of the gig that almost fell apart, but you made it through anyway?
Has anything come to mind or should I ask a different question?
No, I mean, that's you pretty much hit all of them on the head. Uh, it's a pick one.
Yeah.
Uh, we did, we, one of my most memorable ones was I was in a kind of like this,
blues punk roots band okay uh and
we got to open up for bo ditchy wow yeah
that that was that was he was it was 2004 okay and he was still you know he
was still on he was still touring and yeah yeah we opened up for him in beaumont
texas and uh it was uh that was very much a uh,
highlight of yeah you know those you know that i think that's probably the biggest legend did.
You get to did you get to like talk with him a little
Bit yeah we got to hang out with him you know in the little back he was cool
as could be yeah yeah real take pictures with him and you know just sat there
and you know we drank whiskey yeah uh it was it was it was great that's He was a real gracious guy.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think the thing about touring at that level that...
You know, I think people would always ask me, like, didn't you get laid all
the time? What'd you do? And I was like, honestly, it's a lot of drive.
It's a lot of driving. You're doing the driving.
You're doing the lugging. You're playing three-hour sets.
Hopefully, the whole band gets one hotel room.
Yes.
You know, it's not Zeppelin in the 70s at the Hyatt House.
It's yeah it's it's very much
a once again a labor of love
and i would never do it any differently but touring and it's even harder now
because some of the bands that i talked to who are younger than i'm in it's
even harder now because less people are going out to even,
hear live music let alone at that level yes and with and with the saturation
of how many bands are out there it's just because it used to be like in in the
90s and in the 2000s you just networked with other bands that.
Was it there was i mean there's still there still is a brotherhood a camaraderie,
but the touring circuit for bands at that level, like where you're driving yourself
and lugging your gear and doing all of that,
there used to be like a very sort of easy-to-follow
band
Like a map almost right like like
all these clubs knew they were on the map and it was it
was the punk circuit that really started that right
like i mean and then it and then it was was sort
of leveraged by by non-punk bands for
sure absolutely but it was it was the
punk scene that that really um built
that and and it thrived for a while it it exists today
but it's not the same and it's not the same no i
and and you know you're i love the way you
describe touring is you know touring is a
lot of driving and you're doing the driving it's a lot
of lugging and you're doing the lugging right like that
you do that for a very long time and then
maybe that's the that's it right yeah most
bands that's the if if you get
yourself to a point where you can afford to
tour uh that's the world that you're in certainly in the beginning and maybe
until you decide to stop being in that world yeah like the the level up from
there is is that i think is the most difficult jump to make because most bands could
Burn out by the time they get.
There that's the thing is you burn out before you before you
you know if you outlast it like in most
things in life you know i've always said my success comes from bullheaded
persistence and and it's true but you know like there's
also one of my favorite phrases is overnight success takes about 20
years right yeah uh and it's but
it's true right you just most people only see the overnight you know but it's
the 20 years that led up to it of the driving and lugging and playing three
hour sets like three hour sets in a different city there there was there was
one point i was on the road with a band called the hypnotic clambake.
There was one point where we played good name.
It is a good name. It's still, it's a good band and it's, it's still a going concern.
Uh, I was hired to do a three month tour in 95, right after we moved to Austin. Um, and, uh,
But like we had done 14 dates in a row, 14 nights in a row in 14 different cities. Yeah.
And as grueling as that sounds, and it was every one of those 14 days was better
than the 15th day when we had nothing to do.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Idle time on the road is.
It's bad. it like it's i see like
thankfully in that band nobody uh you
know wound up having any major substance like addiction issues
or anything i mean well some of
the people in the band had had them and and were on the other side of it thank
goodness you know which which was which was actually very helpful and and in
sort of creating a structure that you know that kept that from happening but
we would that didn't keep us from getting under each other's skin at all you
know The days off were bad.
And we would actively seek out gigs on what would otherwise be nights off.
You know, you would look for a coffee shop that you could go play in and maybe
get a meal and a place to sell some merch and go make a few hundred dollars.
Yeah, put a tip jar out. Yeah, yeah.
Those nights off often were as lucrative as the nights we had booked.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Same.
It's, I mean,
it's important to travel it's it's you know it's important to see,
see things and i knew that was that was the only way i was going to be able
to do it i mean i was a terrible student sure wasn't you know uh so college
wasn't going to be my thing uh but i always,
also i knew i wanted to do this from a very very very very young age,
and uh in fact
like my dad he was he was he
was real cool my mom is real cool too
but my father was i think he understood the what was going on like when i was
a young kid like maybe i'm talking like eight or nine years old and you know
like a road atlas yeah i would have a road atlas out and I'd be making my own tours.
I knew how all the highway systems work in the U.S.
I knew how, I was like, you know, how to, the logistics, I was always the logistics guy in the band.
Well, you're the drummer. I think that's not a universal thing,
but it is a very typical thing.
You know, we, I mean, we're typically, we're positioned upstage center, right?
So we have the vantage point of sort of managing everything that happens on
stage right and and and i think that that logistical kind of thing is is maybe
part of why we we become drummers in the first place yes yeah absolutely there's
a relationship there i don't know which way it actually because
We can't yeah yeah it's like why would you why would you want to carry all this
stuff uh you know it's the you know it's uh.
Because it's good exercise yeah i
Always tell you know that uh my parents lost me when i was about four years old because my,
The house we lived in, next door, the guy, he was probably in high school.
It was probably like 19, I'm 52, so it was probably like 1978 or something like that.
And he was a drummer.
And my mom said I would be by the window and I would just be listening.
So she goes and asks the neighbor, can I bring Rand over?
He seems really interested in whatever's going on.
Like, it'll be that, it'll be that, he'll see it, it'll be over.
And I remember walking into this room and it was exactly what you'd expect.
A massive silver sparkle drum set. Black lights everywhere. Tapestries.
I'm sure it reeked a weed.
Of course.
In my head I was like oh this is it. There's really nothing else. That's it.
That's it.
It's over. I've heard of this thing called college but it's a.
Yeah once once you get that addiction man i
like my my moment i i certainly was
into music before this but my my moment was and so this would have been i was
eight or nine nine probably my dad and and his now wife and and her sister and
i went and saw weather report at the beacon at the Beacon Theater in New York. Yeah.
That's cool.
And, uh, I remember my dad telling me ahead of time, cause it was,
you know, the, certainly the first big con I'd seen, I'm sure I'd seen live
music, you know, of course, but this was like a concert, you know,
5,000 people fill the Beacon Theater. And, uh,
And I remember him telling me, like, you know, what it was going to be like
and sort of preparing me.
We were very much into the music at home. Like I knew all the weather reports catalog.
It was I knew every song they played. It was great.
But which I guess is weird for a nine year old now that I'm saying it didn't seem weird to me.
It seemed weird to me.
OK, great. Perfect. Maybe atypical, but certainly not weird.
And and he said you know make sure to watch them
on stage because you're gonna see him like making
jokes with each other and commenting and like like there's gonna be
this he described that on stage interaction in
a way that landed with uh with nine-year-old me right
and so i was like oh okay i'll i'll watch and and i know
what he was doing he wanted to enjoy the show so he
was trying to give me all these different pointers of how
i could enjoy the show without pestering him right yeah i mean it was fair enough
yeah i mean like it was it was beneficial for both of us like this was this
was not a zero-sum game at all right and uh and i remember watching jocko and
wayne shorter like at the front of the stage i'm getting chills even telling the story
you know i'm getting chills like just interacting and
and like looking at each other and just you know like like musicians do
when you're in it and you're just playing and you just
lock eyes while you're you know the the
music is is kind of taking the you know the journey and
i remember seeing this and them smiling and i'm like i want
to know what that feels like like i i want to be part of that conversation even
though it wasn't a verbal conversation right you know and and that was it like
it was like okay now i which you know i said earlier that i'm i like playing
live more in the studio. I think now we know why.
You know, we might have answered that question. Thanks for coming to my TED
Talk. Yeah, there you go.
Yeah. So, yeah, I understand. Like, there is that.
And I know that it reeked of weed there because my dad turned to me at one point
before the show started. I was on the end.
It was like, you know, his girlfriend at the time, her sister, him, and then me.
And he says to me, he says, Dave, I think that guy next to you just lit up a marijuana cigarette.
A marijuana cigarette, yes.
And what he, what he tells me, I said back to him and I'm sure it's true.
I turned back and I said, it's a joint dad.
Come on dad.
It's a joint. He's like, yeah, all right. This guy's going to be fine.
He knows. Yeah. Yep. All right.
My work here is done.
My work here is done. I taught him how to watch a concert. He taught me what
a joint was. We're, you know, we're good. So, yeah.
That's it. That's yeah. I mean, what a report. I could, that'd be, that's a once in a while.
I mean. It was.
That is.
Incredible it was incredible i i wish i had i mean i i clearly do have vivid
memories of this show i wish i had been older and and had even deeper memories
and understanding of what i was seeing at the time because i mean you know doesn't well
My first concert was air supply at six flags.
Astral world there you go there you go yeah and
They're still my guilty i will i'm on record for this they're still my guilty pleasure.
Yeah that's nothing wrong with that yeah yeah
I love a good you know.
That they a
Good pop song.
Oh i mean come on i you're talking to like i love pop songs i love power pop like i i am i gravitate
Towards it to tell you the.
Truth same i
Gravitate towards a hook uh that's just what i've always i don't know why i
mean uh i just i think one of the greatest.
Another guilty pleasure of mine, which I think is just a tremendous song,
well-written, well-produced, is Cuts Like a Knife by Brian Adams.
I think it is just almost, to me, the perfect song in its structure,
in its production, in its instrumentation.
And i just you know i mean i'm an old i'm an old punk skater i listen to flipper
i listen to black flag i listen to slayer i listen to judas priest i also listen to sunra i also listen to,
miles davis i listen to al green i listen to the rolling stone i mean sure but i,
the way even when i'm writing songs i'm not trying to even do this i just it's
just where everything goes for me and that's it's not forced i'm not i'm not forcing myself to write,
any of it some of it it's
yeah i i've never been able to be one of those guys like i have friends who
are like i'm gonna sit down and write today i was like how does that work how
do you just sit down and and write it's it I write a song maybe,
I know guys who just write songs.
Sure. Same.
You know, like, they're just like, I'm like, wow, that's a really good song.
That's a really good song. That's a really good song. That's a really good song.
And it takes me a while to stumble upon something that for me,
because I have to think it's good.
Of course.
And for me to stumble upon it, it usually comes down to like some kind of soaring
chorus that I just, it just happened.
Yep.
And, and I've also, you know, I like it going back to kind of like my influence.
I just talked about punk and straight up to stones and don't overthink that shit.
Yep. I'm sorry. You're good. Yeah.
Yeah. Cause I think that's what people want to write songs. They start,
they say, I'm going to sit down and write and they're like, well, nothing's going on.
And they're throwing a million chords onto something and they have no,
no lyrics and kind of to get back to the point of like, where it's really important to travel.
Yep.
That's where ideas come from. You have to get out of the house.
You have to, yeah.
No, you can't sit in your house and think you're going to come up with.
I mean. No, you got to live.
Yeah, I still like to go to a bar and have some drinks. And I'm an observer.
Oh, yeah.
I don't pry. I'm not doing anything. But, you know, I observe what's going on around me.
When my wife and I are driving around, I am I can't stop I'm an architecture
dork I'm geeking out on that I'm looking over there.
One of my favorite things to do when I drive around I don't know that I've ever
shared this anywhere I maybe have
It's not something that I Intentionally do, it just happens And I enjoy the
exercise Is I'll see a house Or a building or something But usually a house And
I will, like, in my head, craft this entire life story of the person or the
family or whatever, whomever it is that lives in that house and what their lives
are like and, like, all of this stuff.
And it's, you know, it's usually a life that's different than mine.
You've got to engage the imagination.
And it just happens. And it's like, oh, I know these people.
And, of course, I don't know them. They might not even be there.
Like, it's completely made up. But, like, it allows.
I don't know. I just like digging in, but I do need to go back because you talked
about cuts like a knife and that is your submission for the on the list of best pop songs.
Best, best. Well, I forget what you said.
I would stand by that. Yeah, no, I think it's I think it's I think it's just it's I.
Think I have no truck with that. I think it's great. And also,
the beauty of music is that
It's supposed to be subjective. There is no objective truth.
And so your submission for this, you have your own metrics for what counts to
be that. It speaks to me. What speaks to you, yeah.
I can't tell you why or how. I've been having this conversation lately.
And in fact, I actually was having it with my
daughter and then also engaged Claude
because I'm always curious and I had one of the most uncannily human conversations
with Claude Opus 4.8 the other day about what makes the best pop song and I
was giving it my like I definitely steered it but it was interesting the responses I got but my
when you ask people what's the best pop song Yesterday comes up by the Beatles Sure.
And and and and then God only knows by the Beach Boys are there.
Bohemian Rhapsody also, you know, is usually top five, if not top three.
And and I and I understand why that all makes sense.
But I think that there, well, there's really,
okay, there's three songs, but I think the one that sits at the top of the list
for me, as the most well-crafted pop song, is Tempted by Squeeze.
I love that song.
It's brilliant.
It is. And I'm not just telling you that, because I'm on the show.
That is top. Yes, that is.
It deserves a spot in the conversation and it doesn't get one usually right i agree
I mean squeeze in general.
It's correct and it is it it's the
songwriting in squeeze is so brilliant but unless
you look for it you won't find you don't
know it because i mean uh glenn tilbrook you just use so much voice leading
to make things sound so easy but like that song is just constantly descending
in this free fall with these perfect lyrics over the top and paul karrick delivered it well it's
Poetic lyric the lyrics are.
Poetic the lyrics are poetic yep and
Uh yeah you can even go on to the you know split ends you know all in that time
frame of of that late 70s early 80s when it was still,
just in my opinion, produced the way I want things to sound.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was still,
It wasn't getting into that time in the 80s when they were really experimenting with, you know.
Yep.
Every band had to survive the 80s. I get it. They all had to do what they had to do.
And looking back on a lot of the material from those bands in the 80s, it's great stuff.
You strip away the production on it, they're still great songs.
They're still great songs. I've seen Glenn Tilbrook
play and sing tempted on an
acoustic guitar right so you don't have Paul Carrick singing
because it's it's it's Tilburg and he's a great singer so
all fine and you don't have any of
the production because it's a guy and a guitar and the
song still is it's perfect
the production was also perfect but but like
for the time yeah the the the
song stands on its own I I mentioned there were three
so I I know people are going to write now so I'm just going to share the other
two and we can discuss them or not uh i think and this is a band that never
gets enough airplay and yet uh most pop music wouldn't exist most pop music
wouldn't exist without them and that's uh big star and and the song i would submit is 13.
13 is like.
This might be at the top
Celestial it is yeah right I mean, Big Star, those two albums are...
Yeah.
I don't even... You know, you hate to hear about tragedy with any band,
but was it supposed to last beyond that? I mean...
Magnesium flame.
I mean, some things are predictable, other things are poetic,
poetic and I'm wondering if that was just yeah,
Was that the way it was supposed to be written?
I was supposed to see Big Star at South by Southwest on a Saturday night.
And on that Wednesday prior, Alex Chilton died.
Yep.
And I did see Big Star that Saturday night without Alex Chilton.
It was Jody Stevens on drums and the Posies, you know.
Mike Steich was there too, I think.
So funny story. I've told this on GigGow before, but since you brought it up.
So what they did, they they they didn't know what to do.
And obviously only had a few days to figure this out. It's like,
well, Big Star with Chilton can't play.
So what we should cancel everything.
And the industry, a.k.a. the people who were influenced by Alex Chilton and
Big Star said, no, no, no, no, no. We're coming to town.
Let's do a tribute to Alex. And so very last minute, obviously,
they pulled all these people together.
Stipe was there, and I'll get to that. Mike Mills sang a song.
John Doe sang. Chris Stamey sang.
M. Ward sang. It was just, you
know, all of the people whose careers certainly were shaped by Big Star.
I think many of them would argue wouldn't have happened without
big star but you know we can't know what we don't know
uh true it was the final
show at anton's on the saturday night which that year was the final day of south
by southwest and it was a showcase uh so they big star had a had the midnight
slot which they could go till two everybody else had a slot an hour before that
and had their 40 minutes, which is the typical kind of thing at South by.
And I got there two bands. So I got there at the, it's 10 o'clock ish or something.
Cause I wanted to make sure I could get in the room, you know, and, and I did.
And there was, and so I watched the two bands perform and I,
I'm a tall person. I'm six, three.
I don't need to be right up against the stage to see. In fact,
I like to be two or three people back so that I can kind of get a good view and also better sound.
Cause it's, these are just small clubs, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
And, uh, like I've played Anton's, I'm sure you've played Anton's like, yeah.
And, uh, and so I'm standing there at Anton's, but I, I, I mean,
I, you know, if I can jockey for position, I will.
And so I find short people to stand, uh, you know, behind. And so there were
I was I was third away from the stage and there were two short people in front of me.
And there was this band playing the band, the 11 o'clock band,
the band before Big Star played. And I really liked him. And I could tell this
guy in front of me was really into him.
And so at the sort of set changeover break, I got his attention.
I'm like, hey, who was that band? Like, what's the story?
And he turns around and tells me, oh, they're the Postels. They're from New
York. I live in New York. I love going to see him. I was really stoked they
were going to be here tonight.
And it's at this moment in time that I realize I'm in a conversation with Michael Stipe.
Yeah. Yep. And it's like, okay.
Like, and so we just talked about the postels and it was like,
great. I'm like, I, you know, it sucks about Chilton. He was like, I can't even begin.
Like, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. Like, you know, we're good.
And he turned back around and like, we enjoyed the big star tribute as, as much.
We experienced the big star tribute. It was, you know, it was special. Yeah.
But that's, that's, that's a cool story. Yeah, I mean, Stipe is beyond legend.
He's a legend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. That third song that I would add
to that list, just because I know how my listeners are and they're going to
ask at feedback at gigabpodcast.com, would be Out of My Head by Fastball.
An Austin band, actually. Yeah. I think that is one of the best crafted pop songs that exists.
I could even put that in there because it's kind of along the same lines is
One Headlight by the Wallflowers. Yes. That's kind of in the same...
Same time and also the same vibe.
And I think one headlight is, is another one of those. If you get to do one, you know what I mean?
Yep. There it is. There it is. Yep. I forgot about that song. Yeah.
But you're right. That song and it fits into that, that same world there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I remember the whole fastball. Yeah. The other than fastball was. Yeah.
They, they, they had a thing.
They blew it. No, they, they blew up. They were, they were a good band.
They, they, they wrote good songs.
They wrote extra and they continue to write good songs.
They really, I, I, I, I love going to South by every year because every other
year or so they'll play a showcase and it's, it's great to be able to get to
see them in a, you know, like down at the Saxon or something.
So, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always good.
All right. Well, we did it. We've, we've blown way past our,
uh, stated time limit, but you're the one that brought up the best pop songs. It's my fault.
Sorry.
No this was great i'll take i'll
Take the blame i'll take the.
I'm glad you did i you just you just didn't know that like i mean i suppose
at any time of any day i could have this conversation but yeah but like i'm
i'm prepared for it even more so this week just you know coincidentally so
so rand tell tell people where they can find you and and get to listen to this
wonderful music that you and uh and geo create we
Are on all streaming services.
Okay so
Uh we have an instagram.
Yep so
Uh you know the broken rings.
Okay uh
For the broken rings uh you know spotify.
Yep uh
We just released our latest single uh about six weeks ago uh it's called sick
in the city so we've been getting some good uh,
Uh, for lack of a good rotation on that. Uh, and, uh, we're just going to start plugging away.
Uh, geo is going to come out here to Denver and in three weeks,
we're going to start tracking for some new material.
Amazing. Oh, I can't wait to hear it. That's great.
So, uh, we're looking to, no matter what.
Another great song, by the way, no matter what, right.
Right. Like, you know, if we're talking about great pop songs,
that's, that's got it. I appreciate it.
Yeah, don't get me down the rabbit hole again.
I know, sorry, sorry, sorry.
But yeah, with Target, we want to get another single out early September.
Realistically, you know, track drums here.
And as I, you know, explain the process that starts once that happens,
with the way we do things.
We've become pretty good at it with the process.
This will be our first time that we are...
Tracking drums ourselves and
i worked i did i didn't mention i worked in a recording studio for
four years in houston so so uh yeah
i i've got we're doing a nice you know four mic old school glenn johns approach
on the on the drums okay so just
you know two akg c114s for overheads okay d6 on a kick and the snare so.
A modified glenn johns
Yeah right yeah uh but uh already just playing around the sounds and i really like them.
So that's great
I think we'll be i it's always a little nerve-wracking when we're like all right
we're gonna do all this the.
Clock has has started ticking yeah
Right and then you know will there be a little trial and error sure but.
I don't think that's the fun part yeah
Yeah yeah so uh but yeah so uh yeah know Spotify any streaming platform the
broken rings we're on Instagram check us out and uh,
Thank you very much for having me.
Dave. Thanks for, thanks for reaching out. This is one of my favorite conversations
this week. I like, this is outstanding.
So thank you for doing this. Yeah, man. Yeah, absolutely.
Check them out, folks. The Broken Rings. We will put links to their Instagram
and Sick in the City on Spotify, which actually then
means that Sick in the City will exist on a list alongside Cuts Like a Knife,
Tempted 13 out of my head no one headlight and no matter what because it's all
going to be in the show notes there
so that is an honor yeah that's a good list to be on man that is a good
That's a good company to.
Be thank you yeah we'll set
the bar high uh we do have uh
one thing that we like to say at the end of every episode three little words
as as it is and i i'm certainly happy to saying but it would be way better if
you were to uh any way you like wish our listeners off with uh with those magic three words absolutely
Always be performed.
Love it love it love it thanks for
hanging out folks check out giggappodcast.com my apologies for the way the show
notes appeared in your email last week uh that problem is fixed i hope we'll
find out when this happens but i think i got it i think i licked it see you next week later
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