Gig Gab episode 540 for Monday, June 29th, National Waffle Iron Day, 2026.
There's a day for everybody, as we're learning.
I like that.
You can create your own holidays, folks. It's totally doable.
Right? We've got to create a Gig Gab holiday.
Do it.
We will. Yeah, we will, actually. Yeah, I'll make that happen.
Greetings, folks, and welcome to Gig Gab, the show by, for, and about working
musicians. Here, as usual, in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.
And my guest co-host today is a singer-songwriter who has performed at Fenway
Park, Gillette Stadium, and pretty much every other stage in New England, if I have this right.
Her songs have landed on Netflix, HBO Max, USA Networks, Temptation Island, and The Voice.
But somewhere along the way, someone asked her to teach and she almost said
no, but she worried it would take something away from her artistry.
But she said yes anyway. And that turned into one of the best decisions that
she's ever made. Patrice Paris. Welcome to Gig Gab.
Thank you so much for having me.
My pleasure.
This is, you've been around and it's awesome to be on here and be able to speak
with you and your audience and hopefully share something.
Yeah.
There'll be something I can.
I think there'll be lots of somethings here. I think it's great.
So, like, this is, you are, you grew up in Massachusetts, fell in love with,
like, fell in love with music and theater at some point. Is this right?
Yeah. My life is just music from the beginning.
I was never the sports. I find it ironic that like my kids are like falling
into that, but they also now the music stuff that's for another day.
But that said, I was just, I've just always been music.
I just never did any of the sports stuff. So from middle school.
Uh, elementary, I think when I was like, it's kind of that cliche.
I think a lot of artists know in life, sometimes they start like out of the
womb and they're like, this is what I'm doing.
So I remember being a kid and for my grandma, I would put on like impromptu performances.
I love that. And then I would, you know, and she would bring over her sister
and, you know, on the weekends I would just be putting on shows or acts or things like that.
So it started very young and then it just kind of morphed into,
I think for me going back growing up, I didn't really understand the realm of solo artistry.
So my outlet was musical theater,
because it was just like, you know, like, yeah, I listen to gain back tapes
right like you're like throwing that stuff in but i think to me it was never,
how do i do that you know i i can get into that later in life i learned that
sure sure oh you can actually do this but my only outlet was really just like
oh let me do musical theater and and i loved it um,
but i also really loved singing like celine dion or you know it's like mariah
carrie or jim jackson or you know like we had chores and cleaned the bathroom
and sure i know It took me like,
Double the time because I was in there trying to pretend I was one of them.
Bathrooms can sound great. Like you get all the nice reverb. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Oh, a thousand percent. Now I understand why people love it from the technical standpoint.
Sure. Oh, what's happening with the amplification? So, yeah.
But yeah, so it just started then and then high school, same thing.
And I just tell like the story of for me, it's kind of like I think life has
given me things in waves that were not what I wanted or,
could foresee but ended up by leading me to the next door of where I needed to be.
You're reminding me, the other half of my life that isn't music stuff is like,
I'm an Apple nerd, like Apple computers and stuff like that.
And that's what led me into the podcasting world initially.
And I'm reminded of something that Steve Jobs was fond of saying,
which is that it's easy to connect the dots looking backwards.
But when you're marching forward, you can't know.
You just have to kind of go with it. And and then you and then you can tell
a story later. Like, that's fine.
I I love that. I never I'm going to have to look that up because I think it's
so true. And I think a life lesson, though.
Is for me in this situation and where I am in life now now I don't look at when
things aren't happening with this kind of angst that
sets me back or invalidates or puts the pressure of where I'm at and now I can kind of go okay like,
I don't know this seems unexpected this doesn't seem like where I wanted to
go but I seem to be guided in this direction so I'm going to let the cards lay where they need to.
I think that's great. It's a great perspective and it's great advice.
There's so many things that I've done that I do today, in fact,
that I never planned on doing.
And that's true, like musical projects, but also just life in general.
Like, you know, opportunities show up and you kind of get from them and contribute
to them what you can, and that's it.
So, yeah. Yeah. I think if we look at, like, my sync world or the placements
I've had... Yeah. Excuse me. I...
And during, as I later on in my career was like, oh, I want to make that goal.
I want to make that happen. But yeah, going back, I don't think I ever would have thought of that.
But I think too, for me, it's like people would ask, and I think musicians get
this a lot. What's your plan B?
And I always get really mad at that because I was like, I don't have a plan B.
And when I try and coach my artist on is like, well, it's okay to not have a plan B.
And it's okay that what your plan A started as is not where it landed.
Like for me, my plan A is where it goes.
And then along the way I've learned. So it doesn't, it just kind of shifts a
little bit, but I think there's something to be said about what I've watched
with artists. And you may have seen this as well.
Get nothing wrong with a plan B, nothing wrong with life, giving you something
and you decide to change. But
I almost feel like the plan B is where inevitably people tend to shift to.
Plan B will become your plan a yeah if if you and i think you know you just
said it like it's because of your energy if you are
if that's what you're relying on then it will be what you what you focus on
right like so it like do your plan a it
to its logical conclusion right like maybe it never concludes or maybe it splinters
off and does a million different things but
the only way you're going to find out the The answer to that is if you stick
with, with, with that road, it doesn't have to be the road.
You, like you said, the road you thought you paved, no, but pave that road and figure it out.
And then if it doesn't work, then figure out what your new plan a is.
You don't need plan B's. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah.
That always, that always irks me. It's like, and I, and I have to tread lightly
as a coach too, because you know, I have my own realities, but it's this also deal.
And so it's, it's, it's trying to guide in the best kind of way.
Sure.
You know, that, that can be there, but I, don't do it. Just stick with plan
A and plan A will turn and evolve.
Yes. Plan A will always evolve. That's the guarantee, right?
Is plan A is not going to be what you thought it was either. That's right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So are you like, you have this, this coaching and teaching career in business.
Do you you still perform in parallel to that too i mean you're doing like what
what is your current plan now that we're talking about all these things yeah
You know what talking about shifting in life and so i don't perform like i used
to okay um there was you know i think,
for me the biggest thing is when i started to drop off i had i have a couple
of kids um i opened my own business i created my own program.
Um, but then also I had cancer four years back.
And so around in COVID we had COVID and then we, you know, and then I had right
at the tail end of that, I got diagnosed with cancer and that was, that's been a journey.
Um, it's all, it's so talk about looking back in life and then looking at currently, it's funny.
I just had like my four year remission from I had a bone marrow transplant congratulations
and so they call your rebirth thank you yeah and um,
you know it's funny to look back it's like life is so much more normal now and
i'm like oh my gosh it's hard to even see that i went through that but that
said the shifts because i know in it,
prioritizing i know there was something we talked to or you had mentioned prior
to with some of the questions but that said um.
You know talking about priorities i had to kind of look at life i really i did
i sound a lot ironically when i went through my cancer journey um
not to go all over the place sometimes i do i feel like nemo sometimes i'm like
i'm like you know or dory remember dory i do remember swimming he's like come back to me um,
but ironically during that time, a lot of perspective, a lot of different things
came in that I was like, what do I need to take from this?
I approached it with that end. It was, it was quite,
um, it was a shock. I knew that I was not feeling well for a while.
And when it happened, I almost was in disbelief, um, which probably helped me because I was like.
Whatever.
Like, okay, we're here. You know, they admitted me right away,
but I just was like, I'm going to keep it positive. But I sat a lot in silence.
I didn't want to write. I think that moment for me was about just taking it so.
Talk about performing we i'd
come off of covid and then so life just kind of shifted a little bit and
i think for a bit i i had to get my health back yeah and recently i've kind
of like have that itch of like okay i would like to kind of start to do some
things like i have something in september someone was like you gotta show us just this it's
like uh just this one song.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just do this thing. And I was like, you know what?
Um, but yeah, so I, life is shifted in that realm.
And I think this is important for artists too, because for me,
when I watched, there's moments when you're going to go through life and it's
going to ebb and flow with what becomes in the front and center and what doesn't. I love the writing.
I really, I think for me too, like, I don't know if it's as desirable as I've
healed, as I have multiple things in life happening, whether the late nights
or those kinds of things are as appealing.
So, but what's always been great is the writing.
And, you know, even when I was in the hospital, I was getting,
I had a couple of placements, the irony of it.
So I'm getting my chemo and, oh, there's something, you know.
My song's going to be on Temptation Island.
So for me, I think too, when I started to get into that realm,
I was like, you know what?
Like, wow I could be lying in a hospital bed or I could just be doing something
and my music and my art and my expression because I think that's why a lot of
artists get that's why I got into it because I love it I love being able to touch people I like,
being able to have that reach sure and so I'm like oh I can still fulfill that itch,
And maybe not have to do all the live stuff, you know? Yep.
No, I understand. This is really fascinating because one positive about that
is you get to, you know, stay, be at home at night.
You stay in the same bed every night. You're not out touring around,
right? Like all those things. I mean, these are very real things.
Like when you're touring, you're almost by definition not home,
right? Like that's what it means. and you've got kids and and obviously you
have your health to to sort of address uh and all of that but how
How did you get down and one of the things we i'll set this up one of the things
we talk about on the show i mean we say it's the show for working musicians
yeah that definition is very broad right there are a lot of things that musicians
can do to be working while still being musicians right it doesn't always you
know I always say it's not just the people on stage right
it's the people you know will have
monitor engineers or front of house engineers or production people or songwriters
or like all of those things that's everybody's working in the music business
when that happens right and so what you're describing here with
writing for these placements is
That's yet another type. Yes. Right. And so my question is, how did you get
into that? Because I like this is going to be a path for someone listening.
Right. So how did that start?
Yeah so for me back to so when i graduated high school i had no clue what i
was doing but i had i landed my first role ever which is a nod to persistence but,
maybe naivety and like persistence tied together.
I call my life a series of things that were catalyzed by bullheaded persistence
and like that's it so there you go yeah
Yeah so i had a great teacher there who was like you should do music and i was
like great i'm not great at academics so let's do it um so i i got into a college
it was classical singing which you know i'm trying to sing celine dion with that,
um a year and a half into that i was like okay i need to shift gear so,
i my best friend times at umass amherst i said all right let me go there didn't
end up by even doing the music i was like well let me just get into the theater
program did theater because i had musical theater and theater um you know,
good experience would i advocate for anyone doing that um,
i think you can do a lot of other things besides that but anyways that's for
maybe another con or later on sure that said finish there again another life
roadblock where i'm like okay i'm like you know finish college but,
um how do i actually do this like okay found a local theater um it was,
a big one i knew enough to kind of be like, well, let me take some classes.
Let me start to audition. They close.
Um, so again, now there, this is, this is the looking back. I love what you
said about Steve jobs. Right. So I'm like, okay, like now what?
And so I was like, well, I'm always trying to sing contemporary. Let me.
Let me see if there's a studio. So I found the studio at Boston,
which is where I ended up by starting my teaching career and doing that theater.
And that's also where I started my solo career.
So I didn't have any thought in the beginning about sync.
And I think it was, it was not anything that I was coached on.
And so what I love to pass forward with my artist is just like to look at the
business and look at multiple streams of revenue, multiple ways you can earn income.
Because, you know, we saw with COVID, things shutting down.
Well, what can I, and I think if you were only a hardcore performer, that hit you hard.
And I think people were very creative. I think people were gracious and helping
in that realm, but it still was a bit of a reality and a shock for a lot of people.
So that said, I didn't start off even having that goal in mind because I didn't
even really realize it. And I think this is what I would say to artists too.
I'll get to the point of where I started to get into it. But I was so focused
on, I want to make this big. I'm not worried about almost anything.
I think that was a really big, and I'm not saying that there weren't people
trying to help me in the realm of not, but like I was so focused on,
I want a label deal, which going back at that time was where you want to go.
I had, you know, at that studio, they were bringing in showcases and I had,
you know, girl group, they were assigned to a label. So it was,
it was kind of a commodity.
So that was my focus. I didn't even, you know, invest into understanding contracts
or different things. It was like, I want to do this music. I want to perform
as much as I can, which is great to learn that art, that field.
Started to write music. So that was really good, but I didn't have that in mind.
As I started to go along, eventually as I started to be within that realm,
Maybe going back, what was it, right before COVID, I took a class and I was like, I want to do this.
And so what are we looking at? Yeah.
Six years ago, I was like, okay, like, that's my, like, let me see about that
world. I'd parted ways with, with the other place that I was with,
and I'd started my own and I'd started to really under look at that area.
And that's when I started to get into sync. I took a course,
I met a lot of great people in there.
And that's when I started collaborations, and started to pitch my music and so forth.
Okay. You make it sound fairly easy. I don't mean to say that you didn't put in the work.
That's pretty clear.
But that version of the story sounds like, well, I just decided to do it.
I took a class and therefore I had the right path.
Like how did you obviously you had been doing some songwriting throughout your
life and so there's that interest right you know you're not just kind of pulling
this out of nowhere but like
what opened what was the first let's start here very specifically what was the
first thing that you ever uh you know sold slash licensed for sync and and how did that one happen
Okay gosh okay so because there is a lot that goes into it oh yeah when people
like can you teach me about sync i'm like,
um i took two courses okay i need to i need to edit that so i took two courses i took one,
um which was really great i'd been writing but i i,
it was like a cohort thing it was online um that's where i really because i
was writing music but i really started to understand i was
the art of writing for sync and even just in general because they'll say you
want to right from an artist standpoint they really like okay there's you know
you have your music supervisors that's like the top of the chain,
you have your sync agents that's a little bit closer of a relationship when you're,
bringing your music to them and you have libraries but that said,
you know they love the artistry but you also have to understand the world of
it in order to know what kind of music who am I going to because I did start
prior to taking the classes um,
to pitch that would be like send my music to people I was like oh music supervisors
and I felt flat on that because I didn't understand it sure I was not I was
presenting the wrong music for what they were looking for.
You were selling what they weren't buying right
Exactly which makes.
Sense how how do you how would you know other than by by learning right how
did you even like just rewinding a half a step yeah how did you even
know what to do like this idea of music supervisors and and all this stuff like
was that something you learned in classes was this something you researched
was it how did you even find contact information for
These people yeah yeah yeah i i feel like being resourceful is probably one
of my strong suits because i feel like sounds like it before i took the class.
I just was like, how do I make that happen?
I wasn't doing it properly, but I knew enough to research.
I think that's why too, like I don't mind even in the artist realm of things,
to do i always make things a game so it was like how many gigs can i find how
many people can i email so with this it was kind of like,
okay what do i need to do to get my songs and things and it was like i i must
have going back like looked up like how to do that and it'd be like oh you contact
a music supervisor so i was like okay let me just put my stuff together.
Um okay i understand now email no this is okay i love this because
this is i i do three podcasts there's the this one obviously there's the nerdy
one for apple people and then there's one called business brain for entrepreneurs
and what you're describing here is something that we talk about routinely on
that show but but like also very relevant here
obviously it came up organically but every musician is an entrepreneur
Yes like unless you are salaried somewhere which is atypical right unlike the
rest of the working world where being salaried is
more typical it's way less typical in the music industry and what you're describing
here is that drive of the entrepreneur i mean like when you said you gamified it
and and you you you essentially took what every salesperson every salesperson
who will wind up being successful
uh eventually figures out they need to do and that is making it a numbers game
right and you even said just off the top of your head you're like well how many
gigs can i find how many people can i email and as soon as you start asking
those questions and it's not about the results
it's about the process right and you made the process a game right not that
not that the product was a game right like you yeah right but the process
is just at
The process is, people are going to hate me for saying this,
the process is even more necessary than the product because if the products,
no one's going to know about the product, whether it's mediocre,
good or excellent, right?
No one's going to know or it's crappy. It doesn't matter unless you get out
there and market it and you have to be willing to fail.
I always say my favorite way to explain the sales numbers game is if I make
20 phone calls or send 20 emails.
I came up with this before we were doing email as much as we are because I'm old. But
If you send out 20 emails and you get 19 no answers, that's success because it means you got one yes.
And that's all you're looking for. You don't need 20 yeses. That's insanity.
No one listening thinks, I'm going to get 20 yeses. But you have to open the
door for those 19 people to say no to you and just brush it off.
Or learn from it or whatever it is, like whatever the lesson is.
And there might not be a lesson because the lesson might be,
they're not buying today.
So why would I expect them to say, yes, it's not my fault. They're not buying.
I'm going to try anyway. So that.
And to that point too, I think what a lesson could be is if you're out there
just aimlessly throwing the, for the dark, right?
Like you're just aimless. Like for me, I was out there just kind of doing this.
I found that bit of information and then just started to go at it,
but I wasn't being strategic.
I wasn't being mindful of where I needed to. And then that's when I was like,
okay, it was like one of those, like join the cohort for like free for a week.
And I was like, let me just do this. And then I ended up by buying into the
course, which was, which is where it started.
So that's their sales process, display value, right? It's all okay. Yeah.
Oh, a thousand. I'm, I'm, I mean, that's where it all, it started, but you know, I think,
I was, you know, to your point of like putting the emails and getting the nose,
sometimes take a quick moment to reflect, am I doing the right process? Yes. Am I, is it.
Is it, you can't ask that the, the, the, the most important piece of advice
that I could share about this is don't ask, don't analyze until you have gathered data.
Even if it's like, know that you're going to gather data that's going to tell
you, you did something wrong. Great.
That's a good thing because then you know what to change but if you sit there
and think well i don't want to send 20 emails to the wrong people
well why not like if you don't know what else to do do that
because you're going to stumble one of them even if it takes 200 emails fine
what else were you doing all day right so send out the 200 emails and then one
of them is you're going to stumble into the right thing accidentally
and then you're going to learn and it's like oh yeah i need to find more people like that one oh
i see okay and you just keep trying and you know i
ego is a a very powerful tool
when wielded properly but our ego is getting away and they say well i don't
want to i don't want to be a failure you can't be a success without being a
failure first like it for most of us that's just not that's not realistic
For the top of it like anytime you're climbing and the the ladder in any realm
um it's inevitable and you have to like armor yourself for that and i think you know what,
to the musicians out there, like really start to understand.
I know this is like the gigging, but gigging is a business, right?
So like knowing that this is the music business, um, and it's super in part
of that, I would say there's the creative realm and then there's the business
realm. So you need to invest energy into both of them with performing. It's an art.
You need to understand what am I doing on stage? You know, how am I engaging with the audience?
Um, what is my set list you know what are the props how am i engaging this audience
and then the creative realm is who am i getting this out there too because,
you know if you don't reach out to anyone you you just like no one's you could
have the best product this is where two,
people are like they like it or not to to say that's the most talented people
are not out there and and is is that a lack of business is it the wrong team
around them i think it could be an accumulation of things but.
Usually i think
Far too often it's people just not um wanting to invest in the business aspect
of it and wanting to just i want my creative my creative my creative and you know that's,
i have an artist this is going back.
Yeah yeah yeah no keep going
Yeah and who who who super talented like it was a high school kid but he was
like you know really talented for for his age and wise.
And I loved was doing so many things, but you know, putting it all together
and I had to, it was like, hold myself. I would, I wouldn't not present it.
And I really tried hard. Then it's up to them. But needless to say,
I'm putting together this EP. Wonderful. Great. Do it.
How about we talk about social media? How about we talk about with parental
permission for the younger ones?
Um, you know, starting that realm of it because you're putting energy and time
into this. I was like, no, I don't want to, I just want to put something out
there when it happens. Like, okay, so you have no one.
I share the story cause I think it's, it isn't just this one individual.
It's something I've dealt with, with many artists and coaching them.
So I deal with voice, but I deal with artist development.
Um, and it's like, okay, so you have a product and And now you have no one to
listen. Like I had to before that, I'm like, well, what do you want with this?
Sometimes like, what is your expectation? What are you looking for?
And anyone can ask themselves that.
And that might be a good way to kind of align what they need to make happen
business wise or creatively.
But I want people to listen to it. Of course, you want people to listen to it.
You're putting all this energy and time into it.
But you don't want to put any into the social media.
Or any kind of marketing like social Social media is one way to market,
and it's a good one, but it's not the only one. But, you know,
this isn't the field of dreams here.
If you build it, they're not necessarily going to show up. In fact,
they don't show up anymore. It's just not how it works.
There's also a bunch of ghosts, right? So, like.
Yeah. Well, there's that too.
Yeah.
Yeah. The ghosts don't have cash. Yeah, that's right.
Maybe you can't have that that's what's going to be on the other round yeah.
Yeah yeah no it's like no plan is no plan and i like yeah but i think i think
you said it well like there's that inner 16 year old right where like that person
It is, you know, in all of us. And I think it's it's worth listening to them
for the creative side of it, because it's very easy as we as,
you know, as we experience more of life to realize that, well,
you know, reality is a little different than that 16 year old wanted. Right. Right.
And but yeah.
But if we're involved in creative endeavors, like that inner 16 year old is
an important voice. And and really and I and creative endeavors.
Certainly music is one of them. But even just building any business is a creative endeavor.
Right. It doesn't matter like what the product is, if you will.
I mean, it does to a degree. But like you're building something and there are
times when you have to say, I know what conventional wisdom says.
I know for me, this other thing is actually the right thing to do.
And sometimes you're right. You trust your gut. Right.
And your gut is, you know, another another phrase for that inner 16 year old.
Yeah.
But they're not. They can't be the only voice. Yeah. You need to have both.
You need to listen to both. You need to listen to your current self and your
inner 16 year old. Go ahead. Sorry.
Yeah, I love it. No, no, I like that because it is true. It's true.
You need to i think the 16 year old is the defiant one who's going to say,
screw everything else i'm gonna keep doing this forget about what this one's
saying that one's saying and you need that because you're gonna run into so
many moments where you know,
it's a your your your music hobby how's your little music thing or i'm like
oh god and that's the 16 year old who's like stubborn is like yeah.
The 16 year old saying f you that's right yeah
Yeah exactly right.
Yeah but then that's okay of that
Yes yeah yeah that's why i love that combination of it because it's like yeah
keep that fire you need like i love that the two ends because but you also need
someone coming in and being like okay the or the other voice and just being like,
great but how do i actually because that that 16 year old is still relying on
magic you know someone helping them out or parental you know parental financial end of it.
So you need that other end to kind of come in and be like, well,
how do I now take this into making something?
And that's where business comes in. That's where it's important to like distribute
your time. Or if you have a good team, like who's good at what or a band. I'm always like, guys.
Who does what? You got to be open. There needs, that requires trust,
right? Like you have to, I've seen some brilliant people, extremely creative,
fantastic players and singers and performers and all that stuff.
Unable to trust and without the the the skill like they have all the skill in the world
for the the creative and performing side and that's great and it's like okay
good you don't have the business skill that's okay there's like no one can be
good at everything that's insanity right like that wouldn't that would make life super boring too
but but you have to oh that was a weird sound thing that just happened
uh you have to if you're if if you lack the skill to do a job that needs to
be done you need to trust someone else to do that and
yeah and i realize what i'm saying is you need to trust someone else to do that with your art
and that's where that inner 16 year old has a lot to say right so
I know i know yeah i deal with that too it's kind of interesting you're saying that it is,
coaching people to let go of the hat that you know like you wear so many hats
either it's getting them to like,
to fill to have someone wear a hat like yeah go find someone find someone to
fill that role or the ones maybe there's those two realms the ones that like,
you know are are just so creative and they're not thinking business and they
need to get out there and kind of go okay great who's going to be my team or
how can I train myself in this realm or the ones that are wearing at all.
And that's the, I think what you're alluding to is like the trust end of it
to be like, I need to let this go. But you know, what can be good about that is like,
know the know the craft know the area that you're working on i always feel like
it's valuable to have a basic sense of like booking gigs sure so then this way
if you outsource that you know if someone's doing the job or not doing the.
Job that's true but you
Have to let it go and trust that that person is going to now if they continue
to present or not present and do things in the way that you're not liking well
then you have to go back to the drawing board but,
so if you have a sense of each area okay this is what i want to kind of have
happen you have to let it go you can't you to your point you can't do it all
and that's that's that's the hard.
Part it's it's hard for in any business we on business brain years and years
ago and i can't remember the guy's name who said it but he was on the show and
he said i have my this 80 percent rule in my business and i'm like oh yeah the 80 20 rule he's like no
not the one you're thinking of he's like but it is the 80 20 rule and I said
we were like well okay like teach us and it is profound he said I am a control freak
about my business and I know even when I'm wrong I know that I am the best person
in the world to do any of the jobs that have to pertain to my business he said
so the way that I get out of my own way
I say, okay, I need to hire someone to do the $20 an hour work so that I can
go do the $200 or $2,000 an hour work of growing the business.
And he said the way he convinces himself to do that is he says,
all I need to do is hire somebody that I believe can do the work 80% as good as me.
Now, in the end, most of the time, those people do the work 150% as good as him.
But before he hires them, he can't see it.
And so he knows, all right, well, if I can hire somebody for $20 an hour to
do the work, 80% as good as me, now I can go build the next part of the business
for the other people. And yes, it's only going to be operating at 80%,
but I've only got so much time.
And that's how he talks himself into it. It's brilliant. Because,
again, most of the time when someone's focused on one job, they're probably
better at it than the person who's trying to focus on everything.
Because you can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Oh, that's great. It was, yeah. I like that. Yeah, that 80% rule was a good
one. When we learned about it, I was like, oh, man, that's a good thing.
I need to employ that. And I'm getting better. I'm getting better.
But it's hard because it's your thing. And, you know, especially when a little
bit of money starts coming in, you're like, I don't want to give it to somebody else.
No, you have to. So, I mean, it's that's a growth thing.
That's a growth thing. Exactly. So, yes, exactly.
It will ultimately work in your favor. It might be like a little bit of a dip,
but then eventually if it's the right person, now you're going to see a growth in that.
That's it. That's right. All right. So you have.
You have this vocal program called...
I'm going to shift gears completely here. So we've been on the business side,
but I want to talk about... We've got a lot of people who listen who are...
Singers, because that's the role
they found themselves in. And I certainly consider myself in that role.
You know, people sing in harmonies and bands or even wind up becoming the lead
singer because that's what that's what you wind up doing without any coaching
or training in that regard. It tends to happen more than it should.
And that's fine. But you have a program called learn to sing like the pros, right?
Which is all these vocal techniques. So do you
when you find someone that has been singing for a while without any direction,
my guess is that you wind up there are certain things you wind up seeing consistently.
Over and over again with people like that what are what are some of those things
that that you know we can kind of maybe maybe instruct a little bit here in
the in the few minutes we've got left so
Yeah i would say um what i kind of run into,
especially the gigging musicians is vocal blowout right and so you have to think
about especially you know you look at touring um major artists Right.
That still is very highly demanding, but they're not doing three forty five minute sets.
Right. And so it's a it's even more stress on the vocals.
Yes. When you are in that mid level, because now the gigs are the requirements
are not just like an hour, an hour and a half show.
Again, very exerting of your energy, but it's different.
And it's night after night. So I just feel like people, um, I saw when you're,
you know, absolutely talking about like in-ear monitors or the different technical things.
I think that becomes important. It depends on what kind of shows,
what kind of setting you're in, you know, an acoustic setting.
I don't know if you really need that.
Right. Yep.
But I would advise, you know, get a good routine. I, it's like either realm
of it, you're almost more of an athletic, like an Olympic athlete level when
you're in those three-hour gigs,
you know, five nights a week, six nights a week.
So it is so unrealistic when we think about an Olympic athlete.
I say this all the time to my artists because I'll catch them.
Like recently, I'm like, I'm on it like a rant with a lot of them.
Like guys, you need to be doing your warmups, which is skills,
which is your breathing, which is, you know, it's all that cliche stuff.
But if you think about an Olympic artist, it's so unreal to think that they
would not be stretching, that they would not be doing these kind of drills to
get their body primed for the main event.
Right. So artists, for some reason, like, I'm just going to sing the songs.
And I'm like, like how you are doing yourself the biggest disfavor and you're
going to run into vocal injury quicker and faster.
So, you know, that's what I would say that I run into is there's not a routine.
So therefore, it's blowing the voice out a lot quicker and it's tiring out.
And then also to not giving themselves, you know, when you look at like Broadway
artists, that's pretty highly demanding or.
Or artists of the week, they're not giving themselves enough time in between.
So it might even be like these little hiatuses where like you take a week or two to not do anything.
And I think that's really hard, but this is where the business,
the strategic plan can come in is planet your shows in your lineup.
So you're getting that vocal rest because there's going to be high times right
now, summertime, you know, a lot of that happens there, but try and be cautious
of like giving yourself that vocal break,
um, or also, you know, making sure.
So I would say a good warmup is huge.
Um, everything from your, I love when I do that and it gives me some fun emojis.
Um, but yeah, find yourself a good stretch, physically stretching scale work.
Um, and then finding those moments in your schedule where you can take some vocal rest.
Also like during the day, being cognitive and aware of not over talking.
So there's a lot of things that go into it. And I think people don't,
I think probably the thing is when people aren't getting the coaching or they're,
they're not watching things to kind of educate or learn.
They think I'm just going to go out there and sing and I'm going to keep this.
And that can work for a period of time, but you can run into problems.
So, you know, I would definitely implement some some some things along the way,
to keep that good vocal health which again back to the warm ups,
taking some vocal rest be it either carving out those weeks that you take that
time off in the morning um,
Yeah. Yeah. That would definitely be the stuff.
That makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah. That's probably the bigger thing is I'll pick up people just like,
oh, like I'm just I'm vocally tired or I'm my voice seems like it's scratchier.
And two, if you're, there's a term called placement, which is where the sound
is going. So it's a lot of, as a coach, what I'm listening for with my artists,
which is, are they throaty?
You know, you can hear them singing or with the throat. And then you have,
I call it the quiet singers are kind of, hi, they got all the sound in here.
And then my name, hi, oh baby. Right. You got little knees on that.
And then hi, which is a nice mass placement.
Um that's really important because this takes the pressure off of in here.
And for those listening uh she's kind of no no no it's okay i didn't i didn't
prep you on on that part of things most of our listeners are that listeners
so she's talking about moving it kind of away from the the throat up into the face and even higher so
Yeah right to where your mouth like you could take a little cup and put around
your nose and around there and that's like think about like a mask yeah,
so that's where you want to kind of do and it's a combination of things um that gets it to that place
um but that would definitely be the things that are going to help to save your
voice and that's what we want we don't want to run into like but a lot of artists
aren't necessarily doing that and they're running into a combination then they're
burning the voices out or
or those who are who are doing pretty good with it they're not doing the technical
stuff especially the big band stuff,
in ears and I'm always like you gotta talk to your band and I think this starts with a lot of,
bands that are starting is they're like just everyone's like super excited and
they're like wailing away and then you have to also understand from the band perspective i get like,
everyone wants to put in their energy and everyone wants to hear themselves
but at the end of the day the vocalist is the lead and
as a band you need to understand that you're on stage and you're equally have
to be engaging but when it comes to the sound end of it,
what people are you want that good mix but if You're wheeling over your lead vocalist.
I don't think the audience, it's just you're the lead. The vocalist is the lead.
Oh, it's it.
Yeah.
No, you're preach. Like this is, we talk about this all the time here.
And I'm a drummer and I understand there are many gigs where the drums aren't
necessarily the volume problem. But they certainly can be.
Yeah.
And and you have to learn how to play with energy without leveraging volume like it is possible.
It's not it's not where you start as a player.
I certainly used to play too loud. It happens.
I'm sure I still have gigs where I wind up playing too loud,
but I'm very aware of like I've learned a lot of tricks about how to remain.
Energetic and keep the tempo where it needs to be and all of those things without playing loud.
And it, it requires you, you, you said it great.
Like everyone has to be on the same mission to support sonically support the lead, whatever that is.
And in most bands, it's the vocal, right? Like, you know, but it rarely is lead drums, right?
Like sometimes there's moments of lead guitar. Yeah. Right.
But but even those are usually not 100 percent of the time. They might be 12
percent of the time. Right. So learning how to balance within your band will
make all the difference in the world. Yeah.
And and letting the ego go because i'm like you have to have the conversation
come together as a group i think there's lots of egos happening there's lots
of value of importance and again everyone is
but like let's just be real to what the audience perspective is which is they're
honing in on the whole thing but really if it's a if it's a vocal led thing
they're listening to that They're listening to vocals.
That's a hundred percent. No. And you know, like I don't, I think this is another
one of those things where the ego can be a tool, right?
Reassign the ego. You know, if I, if I'm playing in a band, my ego isn't,
focused on what's the best drum part I can play here as loudly as possible so
the person in the back of the room knows what I did yeah my ego is focused on
how can I make sure the person in the back of the room
hears what they want to hear and is getting a good experience and likes my band
because I'm not there as Dave the solo drummer right like I'm there as Dave is part of a band So
like that is the product it, no one, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's what the bands need to come together. I say, you know,
have these conversations. It's almost like with songwriting back,
signing split sheets, which is your agreements. Yes. That's a very basic.
It's like when you're a songwriter, there should be no E. I'm always telling
guys, people almost get scared or like, I don't want to do that with the producer
or have that conversation. I'm scared. They'll not want to work with me.
No one wants to work with you because you're asking them to sign a split sheet. Then that's a red flag.
Yeah. You should. You don't want to work with them. Run.
So I think it's about communication. I think artists don't always want to have
those open and dialogues, but I feel like, I'm not saying, maybe I'm generalist,
but like, I feel like I've just kind of seen, I'm like, guys, like, it's okay.
Like have that conversation. I deal a lot with solo stuff.
I've dealt with bands and coaching them and different things like that,
but you know, it's like, have that conversation with your band and people are
going to be mad because you're asking them to ease up.
It's not a matter of like trying to shut them down.
It's a matter of you need good vocal health.
And if they can't, I mean, in your monitors, you can do those things but there
still is just the live singing and people tend to want to over push when everyone's
trying to crowd on top of them,
and so it's like guys just have the conversation and if you're a musician in
a band and you know the vocalist is trying to express that talk about changing
keys like people be like like.
We're changing eq of your instruments to get the guitars and the keys out of
the way of where the lead vocal is going to sit.
But really, I love this. It's have a communication and really maybe just start
with the question of what do we want our band to sound like?
That's it. And if you can all agree and it might, you know, it might take you
a while to get to what that description is.
What do we want our band to sound like?
And maybe a better way to answer that question so that it's not so personal
is something that we've been talking about for a while here,
which is, you know, bands that are playing at different clubs wind up dealing
with different sound engineers.
Right. You know, the club might have their own engineer.
And so we've been talking about efficient ways for a band and an engineer that
have met for the first time and are now going to work together tonight.
How do you communicate to that engineer? This is what our band is supposed to
sound like. Because they might not know. Like if they did some prep work, maybe they will.
But otherwise, you need to be able to do that very politely,
but also very efficiently.
So work on that project as a band and the byproduct of it is that you'll have
a thing that describes to a sound engineer what your band is supposed to sound
like but it also describes it to you right and then
take that and and now look at it objectively like okay what can we do to serve
this mission yeah right yeah so that's the i don't know that's that's just my
off the cuff thinking but you
Know that no i love that that's so because it's so true i think any band,
in the formation what i've kind of observed and maybe you have too is like when
it's starting there's a lot of excitement there's a lot of people coming together
because they want to be part of the group but there's not,
i think one of the things that should be injected from the very beginning back
to i even brought up the split sheets is,
to your point of where's the direction where are we going is this the kind of
music you guys want to sing.
Who is your top 10 performer? Like, what is the vision of this that we want to go towards?
And it's okay to part ways. And it's probably better to do it early on than later on.
Yeah, for sure.
It wasn't like an advocate of like coaching to be like, you know what? I don't know.
Get two of everything. And this might be like a bit controversy and like people
be like, what are you even talking about?
But like, I feel like that's smart and that's not even trying to project for
people leaving the band, but it's also like, well, if life is happening and
you get sick or someone's like, why not have multiple?
Because I think the problem with bands is the flip over at times.
If there's not that solid communication and even if there is in life happens,
right. Talk about like, like journey.
Somebody might need to move, like relocate. And then that, Exactly.
Everybody's still getting along, but that one isn't here anymore.
So we have to, you know, that role needs to be filled. Yeah.
And, and, or even just having that network, that pool of people.
Um, I know cause I was at, I was at something recently and I guess the drummer didn't show.
I went to go see this man and I was like, and they had someone who came in,
but it delayed stuff. And I was like, Oh God.
Um, so talk about like.
Yeah, I know it happens though. I've gotten, I've gotten calls at three in the afternoon.
Like, uh, Hey, can you, uh, can you, can you be at the theater tonight at like,
you know seven o'clock to play this show that you've never even heard before
it's like sometimes it's yes i mean it's fun to go be superman in those moments but
it's it's stressful right but still like better if you have prepped for that
in advance yeah for sure yeah this is amazing thank you for for taking your
time i know i know we're running up against
uh your time limits for today and i want to be respectful of that thank you
where can people find you patrice
Um i mean And Instagram, I have my, I have the studio, which is Patrice Paris Voice Studios.
You can go on the website there and you can see there, patriceparisvoicestudios.com.
You can also go to patriceparis.com.
And those are both my handles too. That would be another thing, guys. Amazing.
Don't make 20 million handles for things. Just like do one. Yep.
And that way it's easier for people.
Hopefully you all can find me that way.
There you go. That's good advice. I love it. I'll put all those links in the
show notes for you. Thank you very much.
And yeah, this is great. There's, there's one last thing that I will ask.
There's three words that we always say as we're, it's kind of our, our mantra, if you will.
And I would love it if you would say them because I say them all the time.
So I'll let, I'll let you take it away. Yeah.
Always be performing, guys.
There it is. That's it. Patrice, thanks for hanging out. What a blast. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you for all you're doing for your audience because doing this
stuff matters. And, you know, having people like yourself to be taking the time
to do this is huge for musicians.
Thank you. My goal is for us all to level up together.
And I love being a part of it. So thank you for saying that.
But thanks for hanging out. Thanks, folks, for listening and feedback at giggabpodcast.com
if you have any questions. Of course, giggabpodcast is our handle across all
the socials because we followed Patrice's advice.
Thank you, Patrice. Thanks, everybody. And we'll see you next week.
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