15 YRS AGO: Keller & Powell discuss whether CM Punk's return was rushed, WWE announcing situation, Bryan, Tag Team Division, more
Today we jump back 15 years to the July 26, 2011 episode of the PWTorch Livecast with host PWTorch editor Wade Keller and Jason Powell of ProWrestling.net where they discussed with live callers Monday's Raw episode in-depth including holes in the booking that were exposed by two title matches and rushing C.M. Punk back, where they go at Summerslam, the WWE announcing situation with Jim Ross apparently back, state of WWE tag division, Dave Lagana's blog on C.M. Punk 2006-2007, Daniel Bryan's WM28 tease, and much more.
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Speaker 2: Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
Pro Wrestling Podcast.
Speaker 1: On today's Wadeller Pro Wrestling Podcast, fifteen years ago Flashback,
we jump back to a flagship episode from July twenty six,
twenty eleven, with Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net.
We talked to callers about raw from the night before,
including holes in the booking that we're exposed by two
title matches, and rushing CM punk back where they go
at SummerSlam, the WW announcing situation with Jim Ross apparently
back the state of ww's tag team division, Dave Logana's
blog on CM punk from two thousand and six two
thousand and seven, Daniel Bryan's wrestled any of twenty eightis
and much more so let's get to it again. This
originally live stream did just over fifteen years ago on
July twenty six, twenty eleven. It is today's Wade Keller
Progressing podcast for Friday, August fourteenth, twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the PW Torch Live Cast. I am PW
torch dot Com editor Wade Keller, joined as usual on
Tuesdays by Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net. On Jason,
ew' too going doing very well yet now I'm still
feeling kind of crappy. I don't know what. I don't
know what what I picked up at the WWE show
last Tuesday night. But my throat is still pretty sore.
So I'm going to be throwing to you a lot
more than usual. So I hope you're hope you're ready.
Speaker 4: I'm ready?
Speaker 3: All right? Cool. We had a lot to talk about,
and we certainly welcome callers to give us a phone call.
Here the number six four six seven two one nine
eight two eight. That's six four, six seven to one
nine A two eight. We've got five people on hold,
and we invite you to be number six, seven and eight.
We do have the chat room open also, and Bruce
Mitchell just celebrated that he is the first person in
the chat room. So uh, I've never seen Bruce celebrate
something like that before. So I don't know what to
say about it. Last night, she eate's in tons of
major happenings on the show. Do you look at last
night's show it's kind of a hot shot reaction to
the low ratings, the disappointing ratings the last two weeks,
or do you look at last night show as part
of the master plan from a month ago.
Speaker 4: I'm gushing, hot shouting, and it certainly appeared that way
to me. You know, part of it, I think is
they with the Triple H situation, they wanted to bring
back your rash, bring back John Morrison, and try to
really establish this as a significant change. So that part
I understand, even though I thought Morrison was especially lost
in the shuffle by the time the show went over
at but I mean the punk thing having him come back,
I don't you know, I'd be surprised if it were
planned for this soon. It felt rushed. I mean, it
was still a very entertaining show, but I really felt
like last night it would have been more than enough
just to show us to comic con footage. I didn't
think they needed to bring him back like they did.
Speaker 3: I agree with you that Morrison got rushed or lost
in the shuffle. I should say, I'm not sure this
was the right ty to bring him back. The fact
that they jumped from Punk confronting Triple as a comic
con too, you know, Punk actually reappearing on the TV show,
I thought was a remark to me. I looked at
that as a concession that what they were doing wasn't
working and maybe they drove people they thought, maybe they
drove people away. I did nearly one hour of a
post raw Keller hotline today with Bruce Mitchell as my guest,
since my throat is still pretty sore and I could
through the majority of the talking as usual, so I
kind of threw to him on stuff. And one of
the things that we talked about is whether Vincent Man
looked at the ratings the past couple of weeks and said, wow,
I handed the reins over to people who think social media,
the Internet crowd, the people who know all the insider
references that cmpunk made. I threw it over to them,
and let's you know, I conceded let them let them
try some things and it didn't work. You know, we
did some you know, terrible to barely okay ratings for
a pretty big storyline arc. And so I almost wonder
if bringing Punk back is just a concession to say
they're not a concession, an admission of you know, that
wasn't working, So let's just quit playing this game and
let's go back to something a little more traditional. Do
you think that could be vincient Man's interpretation of the
numbers and his reaction to it. Let's abandon this whole
Cmpunk is a renegade and just get them back on
the show asap.
Speaker 4: I think it could be a day, It could all
should be a sign that they feel like we need
to strike while the iron is hot, at least with
a certain part of the audience and really get this going.
Let's not you know, let's try to recreate the buzz
we had at Money in the Bank, try to get
that at SummerSlam, because if we wait, then maybe you know,
even the you know, even though the ratings aren't that
strong right now, it's certainly appealing to a good a
portion of the audience, and if we wait, maybe that
appeal goes away. Even for that part of the audience.
Speaker 3: Turple as the first week as the guy in charge.
You know, what, what do you think of how they
handle his opening State of WWE speech and the decision
to kind of be a hero too. I think a
lot of fans by going after the Galen Alti, Michael
Cole and bringing back to them Roth, I.
Speaker 4: Thought it was solid. I was worried it was going
to be like the centerpiece angle of the show. I
couldn't blame them if it was. You know, if it
was you get the world title match to start the
show that we did, and they didn't follow up with
Sena and a mysterio. I was kind of thinking that
it might be a situation where it's, uh, you get that,
you get Triple H at the end of the show
bringing some people back, or you know, doing whatever it
was he was going to do, and that comic con footage,
and so it was a lot more of a It
was a much more lively show, and Triple H didn't
get lost in that like Morrison did by any means.
But he wasn't the focal point either, and you know,
I don't expect him to be the focal point of
the show if he's in a non wrestling role on
a regular basis. But if there was ever a Knight
to do it, I guess it would be last night.
He did Okay, a little too much comedy. I enjoyed
the stuff with he and Our Truth, but I'm worried
that there, I mean, Truth is just kind of sliding
back into the mid card now. He's entertaining at what
he does, and maybe that's just by design. Maybe they
don't think he's got maybe maybe maybe they don't feel
like he's main event material, but he's kind of becoming
a comedy act more than He's kind of lost that
edge that he had, and that was always my concern
with him when they kind of drifted back and forth
between comedy and really trying to give him that edge,
And it really looks like the comedy factor has won out.
Speaker 3: Do you think Jim Robson's back for good on Raw?
And definitely I mean for good meaning you know it's
not going to be a point of controversy for a while,
for week month perf year, he'll be the main guy.
Speaker 4: I think, so yeah. I mean, it's so hard to say.
With Vince McMahon and their strange relationship, I mean, Vince
could have a change of hard quickly, but I would
be surprised unless this storyline turns back into Vince regains
control somehow and he wants to be the evil mister
McMahon and fire Jim Ross. I just don't see a
real storyline reason to change that at this point. I'm
a little bit I don't know about you, but I'm
disappointed that with their explanation for why Michael Cole is
still on Raw, Hunter tried to say that it would
cost him more to send him home because of his
severance package. It's like, well, send him to Friday Nights exclusively,
and you know, maybe it was I don't know if
they were trying to imply that it was the Raw
gig that you know he had to be on, but
just come out and say that. Otherwise It's like, well,
just send them to Fridays, which I wish they'd do. Anyway,
leave that act on Friday Nights backdown, because my fear
now with the three man booth is it's going to
be Ross and Lawler doing their thing and Vince McMahon
feeding Michael Cole shots to take at Jim Ross and
just interrupting the whole flow of things. I've never been
a big fan of three man booths, and you know,
I just think that Ross and Lawler have chemistry and
Cole is just gonna heal it up even more now
that there's a three man booth.
Speaker 3: You know, it could have been because they threw so
much at us last night, but I didn't come away assuming,
and I could be totally wrong that Cole was going
to be part of the rock Booth going forward. So
but you might be right. I got the sense he's
going to be on Fridays, but maybe not on row Mondays.
But I'm with you he is there on Mondays going forward.
I just think it clutters the booth and Cole's too
large a personality. I mean, I'd rather have Ross, Cole
and Maler. They're just colon Lawler. I think it address
is a major problem, but I'd rather just have Ross
and Lawler the truth.
Speaker 1: It's next level coverage did you come to expect from
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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know the reason. I just think that the
way it was structured, like he had to you know,
he had the week off was all he was given,
and you know he has until what was it Friday
or next week? I can't even remember which to decide
if he was willing to do both. And then he
sat back down, and then Jim Ross on Twitter talking
about how it was going to you know, three man
boots a little bit different. I can't know what its
exact wording was, so I think it is a three
man booth. But well, you know, that's something they could
change easily if they wanted to. I just think the
cole act is so played out. I think vincepicks Man
is the only one really laughing right now. I don't
be wrong. The triplation personation I got a kick out of,
but him as a as a he can't even really
call him a play by play guy anymore. That's the
other thing I worry about too, I guess, is that
we've seen Ross play that hybrid role before. I want
Jim Ross to be on play by play. I don't
want Michael Cole to be the play by play guy. Well,
Jim Ross just kind of chimes in along with Cherry
Lawler every now and again.
Speaker 3: Well, I would think the only point of bringing Ross
back is having to play by playing like Colby color
if Cole. If Cole is introducing the show, if he's
pitching it, throwing to video packages and pushing pay per views,
I mean that's ridiculous. I mean Ross should be the
host and Cole should play a character or Deal character,
just like any Deal character any he color commentator has
over the years. So I agree, But just the same
company that had Jim Ross playing hybrid with Todd Grisham
on Backdown. Yeah, although that was you know, Todd was
the host and Ross was brought end as the analyst.
I mean, Todd Grisham serves no purpose as a color commentator.
He was, you know, at least Michael Cole has a
personality to Grisham had nothing other than play by play,
So I think that was more to try to groom
Grisham and bring him up a level with Cole at
least there's that heel personality where you would have the
expectation he'd be the color guy. I can't imagine Grisham
being a color guy. I mean, I think you almost.
If you're going to have that odd pairing, you gotta
have Ross as the analyst because he's at least able
to play both roles. Grisham isn't. But you know, Michael
Hole's best right now is just the color guy. Anyway,
Jason lots to talk about on the show. We could
probably fill up, and now we're doing it I did
with Brucell last to night. Why don't we jump into
the phone lines since they have so many people on
hold and begin with area code seven to one four.
Thanks for holdingly. State your name and where you're from
is wrong?
Speaker 5: From Orange County.
Speaker 6: How are you guys doing today?
Speaker 4: I'm good.
Speaker 3: I didn't kiss your first name? Ron oh Ron okay?
Speaker 4: Great?
Speaker 3: What's your question for us? What's your comment?
Speaker 4: Look?
Speaker 3: A couple of things. First of all, I read it
the same way as you weighed the The.
Speaker 6: Way it sounded was that Cole was either to be
smacked down and Ross and law or we're going to
be raw. I hope Jason's not correct that three man both.
I think that's absolutely stupid. But that's just because I
hate Michael Poole now as well.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Jason good Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh the my other my other question back to you
know Ross's line on Twitter? Yeah, three man booth that
that that scares me, and I hope you guys are right.
I don't think it's going to be a great dynamic
if it is three man.
Speaker 3: Yes, we can't rule out the Ross's Twitter line, you know,
as maybe overriding what we saw on Row last night.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was I just heard like right now and
I didn't even realize that Twitter line until Jason said that,
which scares me a little. But my question is if
Sam Punk was in the building.
Speaker 6: I have a second question after that.
Speaker 5: But CM Punk was in the building and he's apparently
re signed, why in the hell did Ray Masterio and
Miss have a world title match? And if John Cena
was robbed out of his rightful rematch, well, Sam Punk
was already signed back and he beat John Cena for
the title. Why wouldn't they just make that the rematch
match instead of going through the whole charade of, oh, well,
we're gonna have the Mysterio mis title match and then
John seens gonna play Mysterio Boh with Punk's back anyway,
and now we have two champions.
Speaker 6: To me, that didn't make any sense at all that
if Punk was already back.
Speaker 5: Why have a second world title match?
Speaker 6: That just seemed illogical to me.
Speaker 3: And my final question.
Speaker 5: Is if if Triple H and Stephanie, if something were
to happen in that relationship. I'm not wishing anything upon
upon them, but I mean it's very possible that, you know,
the two thousands people don't stay.
Speaker 3: Married, what would happen?
Speaker 4: Would if?
Speaker 5: I mean, Triple H is like the logical successor, but
I can't see if it was, especially like a bad
breakup him remaining in any form of capacity.
Speaker 3: In charge of the company. That's all I got.
Speaker 5: Guys, Sorry for the long winded questions.
Speaker 3: No, No, that's that's good stuff. They needed you in
the booking meeting to kind of address that issue.
Speaker 4: Wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jathan, do you have a Do you have any
kind of out for WWE for apparently resigning Punk or
we're going to just have to wait to see what
the storyline explanation is next week.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't like the title versus title aspect.
I just think it's a situation where they decided that
was a direction they were going, and there were some
things that didn't make sense. I mean, why is punk
coming out through this stage area? You know, that was
something that really jumped out last night as he made
his entrance to the way any other WWE star would. So
that implies that they knew he was there. Hunter knew
he was there, wasn't something where he came through the
crowd or anything, and so yeah, I think they do
have some storyline holes. They may be able to address
why he came out through the entrance next week, but
I don't know that they're really going to be able
to or even try to come up with the reason
why they felt the need to follow through at that
tournament to crown the second champion.
Speaker 3: How about divorce Jathan, I mean, it's who knows.
Speaker 4: I think the key there is bad breakup. If something
really bad were to happen between them where Hunter was blackballed,
I mean, it's a really good question. I don't have
an answer for it, but you know, if things ended cordially,
I think there's a situation with you no better than
I would. Wait, is it like the Timberwolves owner's former
son in law still a big power player with the
team even though he divorced Glenn Taylor's daughter or something
along those lines.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I think in this situation, the question
would be if Stephanie didn't want to work in WWE,
and it was a bitter divorce, you know, from a
business standpoint, which Wild still be able to retain his power.
If Stephanie was just at home, you know, full time
with the kids, are not involved in the business, maybe
that could work. But if they both were partners in
running the business and got a divorce but they had
a synergy in there. I mean, there are some things
that's cordial divorces. But yeah, I mean that's a concern,
you know, I mean it's something it's I don't know
if it's if concern is the word, but it's a
bridge that may need to be crossed. But I think
we're a ways away from that. Yeah, I don't have
a good answer to it. If it was best for
the business for Triple H to keep running the company
even in a divorced situation if Vince McMahon weren't in
the picture anymore for whatever reason. I mean, it could
be a Board of director's decision to keep tripleation power.
All right, let's go to our next call. Thanks run Eric,
go three pot seven. Please state you three four seven.
We hear some background noise. Why don't you take care
of that? And we'll come back to you in a
little bit. Let's go to Eric gode eight one to seven.
Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from?
Speaker 7: Hyway in Jason, It's Josh mckiller. And actually I thought
Raw was a good show except for the point where
Sam Knt came out to a completely different theme song
and a completely different video. And I was thinking, and
you may think differently or maybe around the same and
but anyway, is he turning face?
Speaker 3: Are they going to keep him?
Speaker 4: Hell? Yeah?
Speaker 3: What do you think that?
Speaker 4: It's hard to say. I mean, right now, it looks
to me like they're kind of letting the crowd decide.
You know, I thought it one of the reasons they
may have had him come out through the stage rather
than through the crowd was to avoid him coming across
like Dallas Page or something where he's the man of
the people. They didn't want to go that far with it.
I mean that's a possibility. I don't know, but I
think what it's going to be is, you know, they're
they're fine. They've proven time and time again they're fine
with Scena getting a lot of booze, and so I
think they're going to be fine with the older, you know,
the male crowd cheering for Punk and a lot of
the kids and the women cheering for Sena, and I
think they're just kind of riding it out. I mean,
you can't rule out completely the idea of a you know,
Austin Brett double turn kind of a deal. I don't
think it will happen because I think they'd rather if
they're going to make a move with seeing a turning heel.
I still think it plays out at WrestleMania with the
rock I mean that's just my guessing. That's not inside
info by any means, But so, you know, I think
they're just going to kind of ride it out. And
if Punk catches fire wants to scene a feud is over,
if the crowd's still cheering him, well then you can
transition him into a full fledged baby face at that point.
But the trick with him, much like Steve Austin, is
you can't really lose the things that are getting him
over right now with a certain part of the population.
He has to maintain that edge that he has with
this character and continue to do those things. And I
have tremendous faith in him that he's going to have
the ability to recognize that. And as long as he
continues to play a part in his own creative work,
which clearly he is right now, then I think it's
going to be he could make that transition if it
goes in the hands of the writers. I mean, the
last thing we need to see him punk playing you know,
howdy duty Junior to John Cena.
Speaker 8: Longing for some mistown set or maybe you want to
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. I don't have an answer
to where they're going with the characters of Sina and Punk.
I think there's you know, pints that Shamus might be
going face, but at a lot of side hints that
misses going face. This company needs them strong heels too.
I mean, who who are the opponents going forward? If
Punk states babyface and seen the State's babyface, who are
the strong heels? Obviously Alberto do Rio is right there, Jason,
anybody else come to mind as the main event heel? Well,
you know.
Speaker 4: I really believe when all is said and done, I
think that Punk is still going to be a heel
unless he just gets over to such a degree that
they feel like they have to turn them. Yeah, because
they continue to hear rumblings that the Kings of Wrestling
are on their way and they're going to do something
with CM Punk. Nothing definitive, but I am starting to
hear that from you know, some some people who have
some insight info that it's nothing set in stone as
far as them doing something with Punk, but all signs
do point to the Kings of Wrestling arriving in WWE,
perhaps sometime in August even and it just you know,
and there is some talk about some kind of a
connection there, but you know, things change so quickly in WWE.
But you know, if they do that, I mean you
could be looking at a kind of a super heel
faction kind of a thing. Not I mean, I think
even greater than I don't know if it'll have the
same appeal, but I think it has the potential to
be a stronger heel faction. And Nexus was because Nexus
was so much of a one man thing with a
group beatdowns, but it was all about Wade Barrett. Where
I think this, if they do it right, yeah, Punk
will be the leader. But if they bring in the
Kings of Wrestling as a tag team, you know you
can you can give them instant credibility by putting the
gold on him and making the tag team division feel
like it's a little more relevant, you know. Cold Cabana
according to PW Ponderings dot Com, I had to cry
out over the weekend with just you know, before one
of the uh one of the live events, and you know,
they know what he can do. I don't. I would
assume he'd be part of that faction. It kind of
seems like it goes against what he what his normal
character does. But in a situation like this, if you're Cabana,
it's not like you're gonna say, hey, I only work
baby Face. You're going to take what they give. If
you're gonna gonna put you align you with you know,
your best friend outside in the ring and arguably the
hottest back in wrestling right now.
Speaker 3: Very good, Josh, anything else for uh?
Speaker 7: Actually one other thing, and it pertains to what Jason
just if you bring Things the Wrestling, which are a
tag team and they're a very good one. With Vince's
lack of belief or lack of wanting to push tech
teams very long? How long would he think that that
Vince Wwe would keep him keep them both a tag
team before sputting him.
Speaker 3: A yeah, go ahead, I missed that week? Oh how long?
How long would keep Kings the Wrestling together before breaking
them up as a team, given that they don't really
push Kings if Kings the Wrestling came in or would
they be used as the facts in the singles press,
it's like you know evolution or something like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's there's no I had no idea,
but my guess would be that if they came in
and if they're going to sign them together, they're going
to start as a team. And I know people in
the company, you know, seem higher on Claudio CASTANOI as
like a long term singles. But in talk with people
in WW it sounds to me like it's not that
they're anti tag team, although it certainly appears that when
you watch their tag team division. It's that they feel
like there's not enough depth to have a good tag
team division. And I disagree with that, but I mean
that's the mentality. So you know, the only I mean,
no one wants to see, you know, the Vladimir console
Offs Antina Morella comedy act feuding with the Kings of
Wrestling right off the bat. But what about the USO's.
I mean, I don't know how much mileage it would have.
I'd like to think that, Okay, if this works out,
if they do sign Kings of Wrestling and they really
do give them a postion to clicks, that that would
kind of push them into doing a little bit more
of the tag team division, even if it meant you know, hey,
we're gon we're gonna pair up two singles wrestlers to
feud against those guys for a while. I mean, there's
still a way to do it, but you know, I
have no idea how long they would actually keep them together.
Speaker 3: All right, let's move to our next call. Eric o'tooto.
Thanks for colliclease, thank your name and where you're from?
Speaker 4: Yeah, how you doing this? People? Washington?
Speaker 3: Deeply doing good? Anthony, thanks for doing Okay, what's your
what's your out comic question for you?
Speaker 9: I kind of figured because I spoke yesterday, I figured
that Seeing Punk was probably gonna come on the show
because somebody said yesterday that he wasn't even in the vicinity.
But I just had that strong feeling after the Comic
Con thing. But yeah, I think they kind of messed
up the angle a little bit. I think it was
a little bit too soon. It felt like a knee
jerk reaction off of the raigings and everything, and I
don't know, I just got this strange feeling that they're
just going to squander this hot, you know, hot angle
at the moment. And I mean, in any way they
can repair it at this point, because I just think
it was just too soon for him to come back
to think about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jason, In addition to that question, or maybe more specifically,
for people who were into seeing Punk because they felt
he was doing things that were again that they were
not a proof that we're against company policy, he's coming
back so quickly after doing, you know, an indie show
and a comic con angle. Does it kind of make
people who sided with Punk go, Wait, everything that he
said about needing time off and being upset with management
and all the things Colt Cabana said was that just
all pr was that just all to work the Internet?
And that's one of the dangerous with playing this kind
of angle where you're the only reason it works is
people think you're breaking from script, that this is more
real than other stuff, and it's so tough to follow
that up. And then once you revealed it's no more
real than anything else, do the fans who liked it
actually rebel stronger than if you just gave him a
good storyline that didn't break.
Speaker 4: That fourth Well, you know, I think most of the
people who are really into this, and there's obviously exceptions
for are the diehards, you know, the people that are
really freaking out the online fans. I think they're the
diehards and they're going to stick with the Yeah, they
might not have the same enthusiasm long term, but I
don't think they've done major damna to this. I just
think it's happening quicker than a lot of us had hoped,
because you know, I think we got in that mindset
of a man think about all the fun things they
could do while he's not at you know, technically appearing
hat raw. You can send camera crews with him to
this and this, and I mean there's a lot of
different things that people was in vision and then when
that's taken away from them and they rush back into it.
I mean, it's understandably disappointing because I think a lot
of us felt like there was more mileage in that.
But I don't, you know, I mean, it's not like
you go to pro Wrestling dot Net and looked at
the poll. I mean, for I asked people the grade
last night's Raw, and I haven't checked this afternoon, but
at one point it was, you know, in favor of
A And so it's not like people are frustrated right now.
I mean some are and wish it would have gone differently,
But I think they're still watching. I think they're still
engaged and they still want to see what the next
chapter is, even though they're disappointed and unfolded too quickly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think
a lot of my show what exciting. I do. I
don't think the fact that it came across is maybe
real or more real help the ratings that much. So
I don't think they have anywhere to fall in a sense.
My question is did it even was it even worth doing?
You know, was it even worth going to all the
efforts to try to break the fourth wall? And haven't
seen more real if he was going to be back
two three weeks later, or really he was only gone
for eight days, you know when you think about it,
I mean, he was on Sunday's pay per view. I
just I think it'll be a little harder to convince
people next time that you want to give the impression
somebody's leaving and this was really it, you know, and
then they come back eight tapes later and they're probably
gonna be on the next pay per view. I don't know.
The whole thing is just, you know, as exciting as
it is. I think when the Duff settles people to
be like, what just happened? You know, I don't really
I don't really know what that was all about. Punks
that he was leaving and then he didn't no matter
on what level you you saw that. But what I'm
hoping is there's an explanation on Monday that makes sense,
you know that you know, Triple Agencmpunk will explain what
happened behind the scenes, because at least there was a
change of power. At least Hunter can say, well, Vin
screw up contract negotiations, but I don't how valuable Pump
is and I gave him what he deserves.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, you can do it.
Speaker 4: I mean I just gosh, I really wish this would
have been the week that they showed the comic Con.
If they didn't want to show the indie for that's fine,
just you know, show different places with him with the belt,
and then I think it's logical that Hunter as a
character doesn't want this guy back, but at the same
time he knows he's embarrassing the company, like by bringing
the real WWE championship belt on all these different appearances
and showing you know, for instance, last night, showing up
on the Jimmy Kimmel Show on ABC. I mean, you
could have played that in next week if you wanted
to and just make it seem like this guy's embarrassing
the company. What choice did I have but to bring
this guy back. We need to we need to get
this situation played out so we only have one real
WWE champion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think that if the case is
Triple HS is the guy who believed in Pump they
made no sense roun the comic con angle, you know that.
That's what's kind of contradictory is Punks as all these
negative things, interrupts Triple H and then all of a
sudden and says, hey, I got your wife's phone number
on speed dial, and then a couple of days later
he shows up on RAW. Apparently the guy in control
Triple H facilitated Punk's return. That's what's going to be
tough to address or explain.
Speaker 4: You know what. I've one positive though, it put this
in the hands of Punk and let him come up
with a way to explain it, rather than the writer's
coming up with some convoluted crap. I just have so
much faith in this guy that if they need to
explain something like this. He's going to do a much
better job than I think a lot of the creative
team members would. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Good point.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to us on the Apple podcast app,
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Speaker 3: All right, let's go to our next We've got a
lot of people on hold and go to H zero
eight seven.
Speaker 4: This could be.
Speaker 3: International or Skype. Leave states your name and where you're from.
You're on the air zero eight seven four, can you
hear us?
Speaker 4: You can go back to that one called it was.
Speaker 3: He hung up? We got We got plenty of the calls.
I just want to give him a second to realize
he's on the air. All right, I'm going to uh
hang up on you. So if you get hung up
on it was you who we were talking to, just
give us a call back. All right, let's go to
the next caller in line. I've been on hold twenty
eight minutes area go two two four. Thanks for holding
the states name and where you're from.
Speaker 11: Alright, this is speech in DC.
Speaker 3: Hey, Steve willkna.
Speaker 11: Well, First of all, I have a comment. I kind
of think that the Comic Con Angle, when Triple Ah
was talking to us, I'm funk he left it off
saying that, you know, he wanted to negotiate.
Speaker 5: So I think that was actually a pretty.
Speaker 11: Good tie into what happened Monday night, and I think
they can explain that away pretty easily, especially as Jason said,
if they let Punk do it. So but at the
end of that I did have another question. I mean,
you're talking about bringing in the team to wrestling called
Cabana Luke Gallows. Is he somebody who can be brought
back for a factor like.
Speaker 3: That, Sathan? I think so.
Speaker 4: I'd like to see Luke Gallows back. I was disappointed
when they got rid of him. I don't know if
there's reasons behind the scenes that would prevent him from returning,
but you know, I was wondering if he was going
to show up at the paid at Money in the
Bank just because Punk kind of brought him up out
of nowhere, and you know, it's I'm sure they're friendly
outside of the ring, but he's not called Cabana to
see him Punk. You know, it's not his best friend,
and that's the guy that he's really focused on. And
so he brought up Gallows out of the blues, like,
oh interesting, I wonder if that's, you know, going to
play into the pay per view. It didn't, but I
wouldn't mind seeing it a little more. You know, some
muscle with the group or something. He's got the size
they look for. It's just I you know, I don't
know exactly what happened that made them decide that we
need to get rid of this guy, but I've always
thought that there was more. You know, he's not going
to be your main event guy or anything, but I
think he's certainly a role player for that company, Steve
anything else.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't Punk and Gallup
go way back because Dallas is on Coulkbana's podcast.
Speaker 3: And they talked about that.
Speaker 11: But you know, Bruce kind of alluded to something shady
going on though with him. I don't know if you
guys knew about that. Do you guys don't know about that?
Speaker 4: I don't know. You know, I know Bruce at least
was in the chat room. Maybe he can enlighten us.
I didn't, Way, do you know anything?
Speaker 3: No? Yeah, So I think if if they value Luke
and they if there was a reason to send him
a message through his release, I think he might have
been released because they didn't know what to do with
him too, and it might not have had to do
with any issues behind the scenes, but if if there
were any you know, they get people second chances. So
I was hie on tough Jason. I thought he had
good potential and because of the past connection with Pump,
if they want to create a punk faction, he'd be
a good guy to be part of it. All right,
let's go to our next prob. We get a lot
of people on hold. Actually we're halfway through the show,
so let's reset things. I'm way Teller, editor and publisher
of PW Torch dot com and the Progressing Torch newsletter
and the PW torchap Little nighte of the Weather today,
So I am throwing to Jason Powell more often than usual. Jason,
how do you like this man?
Speaker 4: This is this is a change. Usually I'm like, oh man,
i'd say it's four thirty Central. I get to just
kick back and listen to wait for an hour and
chime in every one. So that's quite to change your pace.
Speaker 3: You are Jason Powell of oh I forgot your website? Jason,
after that last thing you said, you might as wow.
Speaker 4: That's just cold. It's Pro Wrestling dot next And.
Speaker 3: While we're thinking of it, why don't you go out
and plug your membership.
Speaker 4: Absolutely obviously you're in the audit if you're listening to this.
We've got a ton of it, including last night, Will
Pruitt and I got together for about seventy two minutes
to discuss the WWE rascho. I also posted sometimes I
think over an hour's worth of Q and a audio
where I answer the members pro wrestling and some non
wrestling fun questions at the end as well. That was
just yesterday alone, and coming on We've got a ton
more this week, including the dot net Weekly Show. I
talked about that Kings of Wrestling situation last Thursday in
detail in that show, and we break a lot of
news in the dot net Weekly Audio Show. So obviously
you know, like I say, you're in the audio. If
you're listening to this, give Pro wrestling dot nets Members
section a shot, and you can do so for as
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the annual option. If you just want to try it out,
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I really think you will. Fun Members section over there
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or hey, just check out the regular pro wrestling dot Net.
It's updated constantly and the only time it's not being
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check out pro wrestling dot Net. But if you're looking
for the sign up page, it's right there on the
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Speaker 3: It's also an app in the iTunes store, on iPad
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Speaker 4: Also, absolutely all right, let's.
Speaker 3: Uh let me give out the phone umbers one more
time here, even though we got a ton of people
on hold, the number six four, six, seven, nine, eight,
two eight. We've got about eight or nine people on
hold waiting, So let's get back to the phone calls
and go to Eric seven on seven. First things holding,
Please stach your name and where you're from.
Speaker 12: Hey, this is Tiler from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: Hey Tyler, what's on your right today?
Speaker 12: Hey? I did have two points. I know how much
you and Jason and most of us love Jr.
Speaker 4: And for what he does.
Speaker 12: Basically, my point on JR. Is how much he enhances
the product of One thing he said last night that
stood out to me was during the Kofi and Adr
match when Alberto was attacking uh Kofe's left arm and
Jim Ross made the small comment that, well, Kofey's a
right handed fighter, so that really wouldn't affect him as
much as if he was doing it on his right arm.
And it's just little things like that that I thought JR.
Did last night that would just showed how much step
ahead he is of everybody else. Now, my second point
is how WW is pushing their younger talent, Like with
Dolph Ziggler. They revamped his music last night, which I
thought was a great touch. I thought this sounded awesome,
but I just like how they're pushing their young talent
and giving them a chance to actually flourished or putting
you know, the Evan Bournes and the Kolfees and even
now Visual del Real, even though he's not as young
as everybody else, but he's fresher, he's newer. They're giving
them the chance to fail, basically to putting them out.
They're giving them a chance to show what they can
do and not really enjoy. I'm really enjoying what they're
doing at this point.
Speaker 3: JC Walkman, I'm not well.
Speaker 4: I mean, we'll start with Jim Ross. He just brings
such passion to it, legitimate enthusiasm, and I think that's
one thing that really miss is missing when he's not there,
Cole's playing a character. Even when Michael Cole is just
calling the action, he just doesn't have that genuine enthusiasm
for the product that Jim Ross does. And I don't
think anyone else in WWE can match that. He makes
it feel like you're watching a sporting event. It just
he brings that emotion to it, and so, I mean,
it's great to see him back, and I really hope
it sticks this time is assuming he's you know, healthy.
I think that was one of the concerns initially. I
don't know what happened when they brought him back, sent
him home, brought him back, sent him home again. But
looks like he's that for good this time, and I
think that's a good thing for WWE. He's just that
guy that can take a good match and make it
seem great. And I mean, we could go on all
day about how great Jim Ross is. As far as
the young family, yeah, we are starting to see. You know,
it's a lot of the guys that we're talking about
are you know, thirty years old, which I guess is
technically young awe, But you know, it's not the same
old guys on top of the card. I mean seen
as a fixture obviously Orton is as well, but they're
mixing in guys with them now, more so on the
raw side, I mean, SmackDown. They've got a lot of
work to do over on the SmackDown side, in my opinion,
but the raw side of things. I went from being
kind of bored after the draft with the way things
had kind of fleshed out to now I'm pretty excited
about some of these guys. And I also liked Dolf
Segmer last night. I thought he did a really good job.
I think they're really trying to get over that he's
this intense guy on That was the thing that jumped
out of me last night. Tell me Cherry Lawler did
any favors by laughing when Dolf's kind of jawing at
the camera and drawing at the fans. But I hope
they finally find the right niche for Dolf, because I
think he really does have a lot of upside. They
just hadn't really found that right role for him. And wait,
I know you one of your issues with him is
his mic work and that voice. If you want to
talk about that jump right in.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's not that I have a big
issue with it. I think WWE does. I mean, I
think they think they can't push somebody who's got kind
of a high pitched, whiny, you know voice. It doesn't
it doesn't sound intimidating, it doesn't sound, you know, naturally
as deep and authoritative as some of the main eventers
they pushed. So I think that's just an issue. They've
got to figure out where to flot his voice or
or he needs to worry about or not worry about,
what address how he projects his voice. I think wwe
You know, first of all, you know, Michael Cole took
a dig at Evan Bourne having what he said at
the personality of a postage stamp or something. I can't remember.
Speaker 4: I don't even remember.
Speaker 3: He took some dig at Evan Born last night. It's like,
you know, first of all, stop doing that. You know.
The heel's job, by the way, is not to point
out the weakest aspect of the talent on the roster,
so that fans who want to like somebody start doubting
whether they should even like this person because he's so
boring and I mean the whole thing. You know, it
didn't just start with land Storm, but you know the
stuff they did with land Storm, it's like it's Vincent
Man's bullying and his immaturity and is frustration that not
everybody's pert flawless, like you know, some of the best
talent over the years was closer to So stop having
the commentators point out flaws that make that maybe fans
didn't even notice before, and instead the job of a
heel commentator should be to say things that the fans
at home shake their head and go, that's not true.
What a jerk. Not Oh, he's got a point. That's unfortunate,
you know, And I just think the announcing has lost
its way. The thing about Ross going back to him also,
it's not just that he's everything that you said, Jason
and our color said I agree with. But the number
one thing Ross brings, the number one thing he brings
is setting that moral compass. Actually nobody on WWETV because
Josh Matthews just sits there like a wilting flower and
doesn't stand up for anybody. You for a title to
mean something, it has to the person who worlds the
title has to have done something to earn it, the
same way that if you're at your job, you want
whoever gets a promotion to have earned it and not
cheated to get it or lied to get it or
slept with somebody to get it. And that's what the
ww Championship should be. So when somebody holds it and
they cheated to get there, which by definition is what
peels generally, do you need an announcer to point that
out to the fans and WWE's lost that and so
not only does it hurt babyfaces, but it makes it
harder for heels to get actual heel heaps because.
Speaker 4: You don't Hell.
Speaker 3: You have our announcers either saying nothing or in the
case of Michael Cole defending heels and Booker t even
does it as a babyface commentator on SMACTO defending heels,
acting like heels, cheating, attacking people from behind, doing all
these things that are that really you would not admire
in somebody if they were your neighbor or a family
member or a friend. And so Ross brings that back
to the most important announcer position in the company, which
is a lead announcer of raw somebody to say that's
wrong and this is right, and law and order counts,
and people who violate that should be booed, and people
who follow a certain code of conduct should be cheered.
That's been missing, and it's a huge thing that's been missing,
and it's subtle in the sense that you don't notice
it if you're viewing the show other than emotionally. I
think it's caused them to get off course. So I
think as important as anything, it's not more so is
Ross actually standing up for baby faces and calling out
heels for the things that they do.
Speaker 4: I would even add credibility. I mean, when Michael Cole
tries to show me on a pay per view, I'm like, wait,
giveness the jerk who was just trying to offend me
a minute ago. And yeah, Jim Ross, I mean when
he says something it matters you pay attention, and he
does it in a way that it doesn't sound cliche like, yeah,
I'm gonna give you the same hype that I gave
last month's pay per view. It means something coming from
Jim Ross.
Speaker 1: Admit it. You love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts
with me on the Wadekeller Post Shows. Well, now you
can listen to him every week on The Nickys Club,
a VP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
Speaker 13: Hey, wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
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comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE
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Speaker 3: Josh anything else or Tyler, I'm sorry, anything else for.
Speaker 12: Yeah, real quick. I know last night that they opened
up the show with you know, Miss and Mysterio, but
in my opinion, the lease it would have been nice
if they would open up with the Triple A segment
because that would have at least given us raws for
that match, because as I've seen lately, they've really been
up in their attention to how much wrestling they're allowing,
like at least like Xander on PW torch dot com
on his Arsenate perspective, one of his things that he
said at the end is a follow up perspective when
the whole night was that how you could feel like
there was a change going on within WW. It might
might not have been cosmetic at least this soon, but
at least you could tell there was a change to
how they're doing things. At least the matches got more time,
and then with the matches getting more time, they were
allowing the wrestlers to do more and get themselves over.
I think that was a big point the last night too.
Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons they started with world
title matches for some reason, they were fearful that people
are going to be watching Obama and John Bayner speak.
I was a kind of surprised at how much attention
they gave that. I mean, obviously some people who watch
wrestling care about politics, but raza once a week live
show with major storylines going on, I think people who
are into THEWE product are going to wait to just
hear a recap or read about it online. They're not
going to miss the opening of Raw. But I think
they put the world title match out there to kick
start the show.
Speaker 4: You know what, guys, I think the reason they put
the title match out there is because Ray had to
come back and wrestle again at the end of the night.
Speaker 3: True, yeah, give him, give him close to two hours off.
I thought that was kind of unfair too, you know,
I know they portrayed it unfair of storyline wise. I mean,
I know they portrayed it that you know, see or
that Ray agreed Seena deserves a rematch, but I mean,
you know, as happy as Ray was and he talked
about the sacrifice and then you know, hey, honey and kids,
I'm coming home with the gold. And then you know,
John Cena decides, so I'm going to, you know, make
Ray wrestle a second time. I thought, Sena, you know,
and I know Ray agreed to it and all that,
but the idea that you can wrestle twice in one
night and be one hundred percent I just think storyline wise,
and I know why, you know, they want They wanted
to get three weeks of TV shoved into one, three
weeks of storyline development shoved into one. But they think
it made seen a look a little bad that he
was willing to accept a title match under those circumstances
and really take you know, I mean, what he did
is he took away Ray's chance to bring that world,
that WWE title belt back home to at least celebrate
with the family for one week.
Speaker 4: Where there's something she him funk and really pick a
part if he wants to, I could.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll also say that.
Speaker 4: You know, I would have stretched that out. That would
have been my main event of next week. Show that
they just another thing they really just crammed in. I mean,
that's potential, you know. I was said debating Will Proved
about it last night a little bit. He felt like
it was a match you could have headline SummerSlam with.
I don't know that I go that far. I mean,
I kind of limited to you you could do that
match as like the main event of a b pay
per view. I mean, there's no reason you couldn't try
at Summer Slam. But you know, I just think that
it's two of the most popular performers in that company,
and there's a way to sell that, especially with Jim
Ross there. You know, back now, if nothing else, you
really could have tried to give the Heart cell for
that match for next week and maybe poperating out of it.
Speaker 3: Well, Summers plans August fourteenth, and I just think they
look at the schedule and just don't think they have time,
you know. I mean, this is one of the problems
with doing monthly pay per views is they got to
rush through a lot of storylines because they feel they
want to have two three solid weeks to sell the lineup,
and if they wait a week to do that, I mean,
they're right up against summer flam with one episode of
ron Ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's I mean, I think it's another sign of
things are really being done on the fly right now.
I mean, they're they're doing some very intriguing booking. I've
enjoyed the shows for the most part, but it really
doesn't seem like they've really sat down and laid this out. Okay,
this week, this is gonna happen. It just kind of
feels like this is all being booked on the fly,
and they kind of realized, oh, we're up against the clock.
We really need to cram this stuff into this episode.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, all right, Well let's go down color here,
Eric Coda, seven to one three. Thanks for holding for
over a half hour. Please stake your name and where
you're from.
Speaker 14: This is Stephen from Houston. How do you guys doing.
Speaker 3: I'm doing. I'm hanging in there. We'll pose that one.
I'm doing better than what Yeah, I kind of went
to so that's me. How I'm doing. I'm answering at
the rest of the show. Hanging in there.
Speaker 14: Go ahead, Well, I kind of want to test them
with what you guys were discuss discussing earlier. And one thing
uh I didn't like about the show last night was,
uh was the fact that why if if they wanted
to do the whole, you know, two w W matches
in one night, why did they have to choose Ray babyface,
you know, uh fan favorite and put him up there
sort of like the sacrificial lamb. Why not choose you know, uh,
somebody else to do that. Why not choose uh, you know,
a heel or you know, get somebody else to do that.
And like you said before, why uh why would they
have him win like that and then losing the same night,
Because you're right, it does it does look make seem
to look, you know, like a heel To me, Uh,
it's like a hell thing. I mean, why not you know,
push the next week? And why do it the way
that they did it?
Speaker 3: And I think it's a good Hey, I'm seven, Ye
I think it's a good question. Yeah, you know, I
think my short answers that thought Ray would would draw
ratings wat you know, that was a feel good story
at the beginning to I'm excited about it, and then
Ray Versusina maybe has more drawing power than Sina versus
miss or if they actually planned you know backwards Sina
versus are Truth or Cena versus whoever else is in
the tournament. Jason, do you second guests the decision to
put Ray in that match, have n't win and have
him play seen in the main events.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, just for that because we knew
Punk well, now we know Punk was coming out. I
think you nailed it with I think that is why
they really felt like that's the match. It is most
likely to hold people's attention rather than oh great, another
scene versus mismatch again. And so you know, from that standpoint,
it made sense. And you know, I still do wonder,
you know, maybe there's maybe they did some of this
Pine design and that is something that Punk will pick
apart that, you know, sub scene is not this great
guy he claims to be. He selfish and ears hears
more proof.
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, Steven, any follow up?
Speaker 14: Yeah, and used to nail him to hear it. I
thought that this, uh, this really could be something that
you like you said Punk and pick upont in to me.
It shows from a storyline angle, it shows that Scena
really cares more about the title than he does about
anything else. Even his moral compass would get off kilter
when going for the title, because I mean, any good
any person would at heart would not have any good
guy would not have a heart to take that away
from Ray on the same net that he wanted when
he already raissled a mesh that there, you know, just
leftened two hours ago. That's just a heel move to me,
and that I think it just shouldn't have been done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I agree, Stephen, And I think part
of the issue is getting across the idea that wrestling
twice in Hyan one night in and of itself is grueling.
You know, if you want to get over the idea
that matches, you know that punishment. You know, matches really hurt.
It's bad enough that they do big time pay per
views on Sunday and somebody in a ladder match, for instance,
comes back and wrestles twenty four US later on RAW.
I think part of making matches seem important is making
it seem like wrestler's need recovery time after wrestling one.
You know, the way around that would have been to have
Ray went a little quicker. But you know, they're also
protecting miz so you know, it's a tough situation anyway,
we have so many people on hold, I want to
get as many colors in as we can, just to
know because we're not on the less than fifteen minutes.
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Speaker 3: All right, let's go to Marcus calling us Marcus, thanks
for holding pat Well, please confirm your name and stay
where you're from.
Speaker 15: I will confirm my name is Marcus. Well, it is confirmed,
and I do think that I want to make a
couple of points that haven't been brought up, And one
of the main point being is that well cmpunk walked
into his original ROH music, and we know that the
heroes of wrestling are coming in. We know that Cult
Cabana had to try out, So why is it that
they don't have an ROH invasion stable without actually saying
it's our Oh And the way they can get around
this is because they actually had a silent deal with
Paul Hayman in ECW, So why can't they do think
the same thing with Roh and ROH has a deal
with Pro Wrestling Noah, so it would allow cmpunk to
go away and turn up on Raw once a month
and the rest of the time he's defending the title
in Pro Wrestling Noah or in ROH. The rest of
the time he has either cal Cabane to talk for
him and Colt Cabana can talk about how pod he
was about being called Scotty Goldman. Obviously, we've heard about
the Kings of Wrestling completely skipping developmental So with that
in mind, don't you think that they may be willing
to buy the music of for example, God Cabana, they
go with Copa Gavannah. I'm sure they could buy that
quite cheaply at the moment, and they run that gimmick
and they basically turn around and say they're playing the
music to rub it into Vince's face. One of the
other things that was brought up, and it's really nice
to be online with Jason Powell, and why is it
that they have to be a heel stable. Why can't
they be atween a stable?
Speaker 4: Why they certainly can be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead, well as you know they can be.
Speaker 4: There's no there's no nothing stopping WWE from positioning them
that way if they want to. WWE doesn't do a
ton of tweener stuff. You know, I think that they
kind of like the more clear line between Heel and Babyface.
It doesn't mean they won't do something like we're seeing
now from time to time, but to actually go forward
with them, it's all tweeners. I'd be kind of surprised
if they did the whole r H faction or invasion.
I just I mean, who else do you bring in?
I think this is as close as you would get.
I mean, there's they could call it Tyler Black Akass
rawlins from Developmental if they wanted to. And this, you know,
I mean it's rumored, there's nothing that I'm aware of.
It's like this is Deth definitively happening. But I mean,
there are definitely some people saying that it sounds like
the Kings are going to be tied to Punk, but
you know, plants change, they could keep them apart, and
though those two may end up on SmackDown for all
we know. But I just don't even if you work
something out with Punk, at this point, he's back on TV.
I think he's back permanently. You could do those things,
but I just think it caters to such a small
percentage of their fan base that I mean, even if
you use the Ring of honor name, Okay, it's going
to be lost on what ninety eighty ninety percent of
the viewers that.
Speaker 3: I think you have to combine those two numbers in
the ninety eight percent.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it might be.
Speaker 16: You know, I think there's I think.
Speaker 4: A lot of the fan base has at least heard
of it, even if they've never seen it.
Speaker 3: You know, well thanks the pumps promo three weeks ago. Yeah, yeah,
that's true.
Speaker 4: But you know, I mean so I just don't think
there's really much value there. It's kind of an internet
fantasy booking scenario more than there's something that I think
is realistic.
Speaker 3: I think it's important to realize the world Vincent manlives
and not the world you live in markets or that
we live in here on PW FIRS lodcast. Heck, we
don't get many calls about r O H on this show,
you know, and part of that self fulfilling, self fulfilling,
we don't introduce the subject. But I mean it's not
as if we're just bombarded with r OH calls or
r OH emails, or that the r o H articles
on our on our websites get anything close to the
same number of clicks as even TNA, much less w
w A. So the question comes down to in your world,
if you're an r H fan, you might think it's
cool to do an invasion angle, but it's it's just
not something that in Vincent Man's world is even on
his you know, on his radar. Why why would he why?
What what benefit is it to Vince? He's got USA
network as a way to tell stories, Why would he
decide to use something that's you know, from his perspective?
Why would he even choose to do some small base
anything he does in front of five million plus people
on something that's been done in front of thousands of
people over the course of a few years in a
regional promotion without national cable. It just there's nothing in
his mind. He can create his own storyline that means
a lot more than trying to you know, glomb off
of something going on on a small regional group. That's
just his perspective on it. And I think he's to
a degree right. And that's not to say if you
don't do it right that the fact that roh exists,
and you do oote an invasion angle if you want
to go all the way with it. Maybe an invasion
angle has more credibility if you can kind of show
that this other promotion exists and then people who never
had heard of it suddenly start going, oh, well, this
this thing existed, it just wasn't on my radar. You
could do something with it, but then Vince has to
be all in on it, and I just don't see
him doing that. And Remarcus, thanks for the call. We
have eight people on hold for maybe nine, so let's
get I want to call here air Coda on nine
two one. Thanks for Holy we fake can name it
where you're from?
Speaker 16: Hey, guys say from Wisconsin. I just real quick wanted
to have a comment and a question here. I just
wanted to say the last month of WV has reminded
me of the old WCW a little bit. When you
just think about everything that's happened on RAW, it's just crazy.
I feel like they went through about six months worth
the television on one month, but it's spent some of
the most entertaining stuff. But then you kind of question
where they're going. So I don't know if that's good
or bad to get compare. And then secondly, wait, I
know you're sick, but my question is mostly directed at you.
And this goes way back to February when Sting was
talking one time with WW. I called in and I said,
how I think Sting has had a or respectable run
with TNA by TEA standards, is what I said. And
you said you still didn't think it was a run,
And I guess my point was, I said it was
by TNA standards because I don't know if anybody stands out.
So wait, my question was in TNA's history, who stands
out for you has been really good runs with the
company and helping.
Speaker 3: The company grow? I guess in DNA, yeah, in TNATA
that's yeah. You know when you say who's helped the
company grow? I don't know where the growth is that
you're speaking of. I mean the ratings Forgetting now are
the same that they got when they debuted on Thursday nights, right.
Speaker 16: I just I just mean the growth as in they
went from the Friday night of o'clock sports Net or
Friday afternoon and then Saturday night and Spike.
Speaker 5: Now they're in prime time. So I mean if you
look at that as.
Speaker 16: Growth and just it's been slow growth over the nine years,
but they have grown in some ways. I guess who
has helped the company.
Speaker 3: True, I would say the negotiators behind the scenes, who
got them in front of more eyeballs based on their
better times left and better networks. And I'm I mean,
I'm There's a lot of things that I've been complimenting
DNA on lately, so it's not that I'm done on them,
but I don't think we can look at the trajectory
of TNA. I mean, this is a stupid analogy, but
it's the best I can do in my condition. If
you've got a plant and it's eight inches tall but
nobody can see it, and then you nobody can see
it on the street, you know, off your porch, and
then you lift it up and put it on a
pedestal and now everybody can see it. We don't have
a discussion about how much the plant grew. The plant
didn't grow. It just got put in a place where
more people can see it. And that's what's happened with Impact.
They're doing the same show they've always done to a
certain degree, with about the same amount of talent that's over,
and all they've done is put it in a place
for more people are going to run across it, and therefore,
percentage wise a certain percentage are going to like it
and watch it. And that's not an insult that that's
not to downgrade anything that they've done. It's a big
deal to get on Spike TV. Things worked out well
with WWE going back to WESA and Spike heaving USC
and thinking that they still wanted wrestling. So t ANDA
was good. Nobody else did it. TNA did it. They'd
absolutely get credit for it on a business tan point,
but there's no wrestler who they signed or acquired or
pushed or created who you can look at and go, oh,
that's where on the same network with the same potential
audience they took the rating from this level to that level.
That just didn't happen. So t and A has been
an ensemble show. Kurent Angle has had some good matches
and good angles. Jeff Chert and Karen Engle had been
entertaining at times. Samoa Joe was over at one point,
There's been you know, aj Styles has been over. But
I would say overall the booking has been so inconsistent
in the character development, not strong enough where you can
point at any one or two guys and say that
was the time that TNA grew, because they didn't grow
except for the fact that somebody took something and listed
at a higher so more people could see it by
moving it from Fox to Spike and then from Saturdays
to Thursdays. So that'd be my argument. I mean, I know, Jason,
do you think I'm in my state of mind addressing
the color adequately?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just don't see. I'm with you.
I don't see where this growth is. I mean, I it. Yeah,
they were able to move networks, but that's the only
way you can attribute that to a wrestler is if
and I know there were some people early on that
the networks wanted some star power, and so I guess
guys like Stinging Kevin Nash appealed to them, even though
you know, I don't know what they necessarily appeal to
the masses as much as KNA would like to think
they do, so that you know, that opened some doors
for them. Just getting that the curd angles and people
like that. I guess that has helped them in some areas,
but not in ratings, and I just don't feel like
in other key areas they're just stuck in a rut.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And I mean it's it's a sustainable rut,
you know. But at the rut, you know, well.
Speaker 2: Ay stuff. Do you ever watch WWE and think it
used to be better?
Speaker 17: I don't know, josh Sometimes I think it used to
be a whole lot worse.
Speaker 2: I mean, whether it's WrestleMania main.
Speaker 17: Events, old dudes at the.
Speaker 2: Top, too many titles.
Speaker 17: Or women's wrestling.
Speaker 2: We're here to answer the big question, is it worse
or better? Now? Join me Joshua.
Speaker 17: White and me Stephanie Cheese.
Speaker 2: For Worse or Better, part of the pw Torch Daily
cast line up, dropping on Monday nights.
Speaker 17: Search pw Torch in your podcast apps such as Apple
Podcasts or Spotify to subscribe for free or get a
commercial free version with the pw Torch VIP membership. Check
out pw torch dot com slash go vip for details
and going vip.
Speaker 2: Worse or Better Finally, something for wrestling fans to do
on Monday nights.
Speaker 3: Anyway, we're going to be going off there live in
ninety seconds, So if you're listening to us live, don't forget.
You can hear the calls we're about to take in
the bonus period in the archives, or you can call
six forks sixty seven one nine two eight and eaves
drop in live as we take the calls. If you're
on hold, please stay on hold. We plan to get
to everybody who is on hold right now. Two o
three seven, seven, three zero eight seven five six one
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the calls that are on line right now. We plan
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website pw torch dot com. Be sure to visit us there.
I plan to co host tomorrow with Pat McNeil, so
if i'm or I will be talking to everybody live tomorrow.
We now transition into the bonus period of the show,
so thanks everybody live for joining us. All right, with
a little transition there, let's now dive right back into
phone calls. Dave, if you want to hear me, if
you want to clarify yourself more or have me comment
more on your question, I'd be glad to do that
anytime I'm hosting other later in the week. If we
didn't address your question adequately, just give me a call
later on when you get a chance. All right, let's
go to our next caller. Looks like nine two oho
hung up and he was my marker on where I
was in the phone banks here, so let me figure
out my place here. Seven one oh, here we got
what Jason. I was gonna try.
Speaker 4: I think he had like five people on hold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got six, but they're kind of well anyway,
I friggured it out. I can't explain. Now, let's go
to six five one. Thanks for holding. Please face your
name and where you're from.
Speaker 10: Hey guys, it's Mike from Woodbury. How are we doing today?
Speaker 3: I'm doing good, Mic, Well, you know what, you know,
that's my bad answer than the other than just thinking
more about a nap than wrestling. Right now, I'm doing
all right.
Speaker 12: Mm hmmm hmm.
Speaker 10: Well, I just got a couple full of the point
and you can take it wherever you want. I got
in here halfway through this show, so I'm not totally
sure what you hit on at the top, so if
you'd pass over at Ellison later. But I do think
your new tor chap is great. First of all, the
last few weeks that it's been up and running, I
really do like it. So congrats on that one. Yes, yeah, yeah,
the other one got updated. The iPhone one hasn't yet,
but it will be soon.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 10: A big fan of that. Also, they called the Personality
is one of the great hard rock songs of all time,
so it was a great choice for all parties, and
the crowd last night was pretty interesting. I thought they
were hot for the mainstream stuff. You know, you look
at that Chicago crowd at the pay per view and
they're cheering for Punk and Del Rio and Christian, they're
going nuts for all of them and Daniel Bryan, and
then last night they're hot for Sina, They're hot for Mysterio,
pretty dead for Rider, They're pretty sitting on their hands
for Del Rio. It's just kind of the backwards dream
crowd for McMahon tripleation the likes, but it was a
good crowd, you're regardless. I thought it was a pretty
good show, but I thought it was stupid when it
happened a few weeks ago, and it's stupid now that
they had that triple threat match that got Albert with
Del Rio the number one contender spot because since he
won that match, Mysterios wrestled for the WW title, the
Misses wrestles to the WW title, and Masterials wrestles to
the WW title. I mean the two, like the two
guys he beat have wrestled for it before he got
his chance, and he won the money in the bank
like we all expected. Him to, so they better address that,
because that's like a really stupid thing that they've kind
of dropped the last couple of weeks that I just
it's kind of really bothering me because I'm a del
Rio fan, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
And then in reference to Dave Logana's blog today about
See Him Punk being in the doghouse in late two
thousand and six, early two thousand seven, that you posted
on both sides good good reading, and definitely remember reading
about it in the Torch, you know, four years ago.
But the thing that jumped out at me, and it's
not the first time we've ever heard it, so we're
not gonna peck like it's new. But how Vince just
doesn't get the punk character, didn't get that we've heard
about other things. He just doesn't get. And I just
don't think that's a very valid excuse to hold something back.
I for one, don't get Harry Potter. But doesn't mean
it's a bad idea. It doesn't, you know, Like that's
just not a very bad excuse. And another, like a
quote top Agent was said to saying fans won't be
able to relate to him because he doesn't have a beer.
You know, It's like that is just so backwards and
in so many different ways. And I guess it wasn't
as PG of a product four years ago, but they'd
still say something like that today.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't read that yet, Mike. Somebody, an
agent said Punk won't get over because because he doesn't
drink beer or he doesn't have a beard.
Speaker 10: Okay, it's hard for him to it's hard for the
agent to imagine him getting over because fans can't imagine
having a beer with him. Yeah, well, those are just
two things that sure was four years ago, but I
highly doubt that that mentality has changed since then. And
I thank both are backwards and we see that in
daniel'brian's push and how he's treated now, even though he
might be missed her money in the bank. But I
just thought i'd share a few things with you guys
to stand. I know you're bonus time, so you can
tackle whatever you want, and you're sure move on if
you want.
Speaker 3: Thank you, all right, thanks Mike, and go Twins. I
guess hopefully they got that out of their system last
night against the Rangers. Lots of things to talk about
there and of course my mind goes blank. Right after
I put him on hold. I wrote down notes on
two questions, but the last thing he said about oh
about drinking the beer and Daniel Brian. I just want
to say I, since I don't agree with Daniel Bryan's lifestyle,
we prefer not to talk about him on the show anymore.
And that's not because he's a vegan, but because he
doesn't have a TV. That just that's just I mean,
I don't agree with someone not having a TV. I
do not agree with that lifestyle choice. I disagree with
that lifestyle choice of not having a TV. That's not
it as Bruce Jason, that's not it as stupid and
I'm interrupting, that's not as stupid what I just said
as Booker t talking about I don't agree with Brian
Daniel Brand's lifestyle. It's like who asked you if you
agree disagree? And what is there to disagree with? It's
just like it drives me nuts. Anyway.
Speaker 4: I did check out the Lagana blog. It's a very
good read for anyone who hasn't read it yet. It's
that I want Wrestling dot Com and you know, I
mean the only thing I'll say, in kind of weird
defense of the agent. If in a lot of cases,
if the agent slash producers get the sense that Vince
doesn't like someone, they're going to find a reason to
agree with Vince's a session and so they don't rock
the boat. I mean, it's it's it's sad, but it's reality.
And my god, I'd like to know who that agent
was and and just know what the you know, what
the context was. But if that was the idea that
you're just telling Vince what he wanted to hear, it felt.
Speaker 3: Like, don't Anderson to me, I'm just deafing. I have no.
Speaker 4: Idea, but I'd love to know that, you know, And
like I said, I just would like to know what
Gana's assessment is at you know, was he saying it's
just to please Vince or did he really believe this?
Because if you really whoever it was, if he really
believes this, see you, I mean, my god, that's that's
as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard.
Speaker 3: Two other points still real, I think it's bad booking
when you get to heal something to complain about and
he's right, you you you you want fans to look
at a heal whining and complaining about something that he's
wrong about, and you put sympathy on del Rio when
he went the number one con tenor match and then
doesn't actually get to test in and get that title shot.
I hope they address that. You know, now they have
money in the bank. It's like having to get out
of jail free cards playing Monopoly. You get to use
each one, you don't have to play in both at once.
So he should get a title shot, but he should
also get to keep the briefcase. You know, he should
lose his number one contender victory just because he might
catch in the briefcase at some point. So I totally
agree with Mike on that one. And the regional aspect
of the crowds, I think is definitely an issue for
WWE to deal with. And it's why, you know, for
a while, you know when people will comment on, well,
you know, this guy's not over because on television he
didn't get a pop, or this is over because it
did get a pop. You know, that is just it's
a small anecdote and it's not enough. You have to
kind of just in a sense, go with your gut
based on watching every week all the time and reading
the house show reports on your website, Jason her mind
all the time, and getting a sense for what how
over somebody is all over the country, because there are
going to be towns, whether it's in towns in Canada
or in the Northeast, that are going to rant differently
than the Midwest or the South or the West coastin
or small town versus big town and sometimes a different
and so you can't just look at one TV and
go wow, punk it super over. You know there might
be reasons for that, or Shamus isn't going to get
over at the face because you know this crowd boot them.
You really have to look at the totality of it.
And I think Vince McMahon gets that, and that's why
you know he might see a huge groad reaction in
one town and people on the internet go see you
should push him. But Vince is looking at the totality
of things and sometimes he's right about that.
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Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know del Rio, Damn. I mean, they've really
lost their way. I think I think he as much
as anyone shows that they're booking this on the fly
with that storyline hold at the caller mentioned and then
just the way he's been booked. I mean, I think
just about everyone expected him to win money in the
bank and when he did it, it was like, okay, cool,
but what's next? And the what's next has been really disappointing.
He's you know, I mean, they've done it with miss
they've done it with Swagger in the past, where they
try to cash in and they fail, but different characters.
To me, del Rio is that ultra confident guy. I
don't want to see him. He's cashing in repeatedly and
then then not do it because he you know, he
slips out of an appeel and you know, whatever the
case may be. So I don't like what they're doing
with him. If the pay per view was fine, I
like the way it played into a lot of expectations
for what was going to happen. You know that he
was going to cash in that night and win the championship.
That one was fine, But to turn around and do
it again last night after the Mysterio match, they almost
made him look like a joke, Like, wow, this this
guy's just a loser. He can't even pick the right
time to cash in, and he doesn't have a current feud.
I think that's a sign that at one point they
were really thinking about going Sena versus Del Rio at SummerSlam.
And now if they did call an audible as it
appears they have with with Punk and Sina, maybe that
was the plan all a long punk scene. I don't know,
but I mean it looks to me like they were
going to go with del Rio Sina, and now that
del Rio's out of that picture, they don't know what
the hell to do with him. I mean, he's trading
wins with Kofi Kingston and I don't want to see
a rubber match between those two at the pay per view.
And but I don't know who of the current baby
faces on roll I want to see Yo Rio work with.
He really doesn't have anything going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he might be the type of heal you
can turn somebody like Miz against where you can be
pretty assured that mis will get cheered. But I don't know. Yeah, anyway,
let let's let's so people aren't on hold too much longer. Here,
let's go to our next call. Eric go dot forty four.
Thanks for holding, Please thank your name and where you're from.
Speaker 18: Oh hey, this is Nick from Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: Hey Nick, thanks for calling.
Speaker 4: What's up?
Speaker 5: Uh just wanted to.
Speaker 18: Ask a really quick question and then get off the line.
But basically with Dang O'Brien saying that he's going to
cash in his money in the bank at WrestleMania, I'm
wondering how this is going to affect the Royal Rumble,
especially because it seems to be that the endgame for
the WWE title seems to be to get it on
Johnson and so you can defend it against rocket Mania,
and that kind of invalidates the purpose of the Royal
Rumble if both title matches are spoken for, So do
they just kind of like, oh, good keep do they
keep the title off of Sena until elimination Chambers so
at least that you know they or do they just
make the championship match, or do they at least make
a rock Scena non.
Speaker 3: Title a good good points. Nick, You know, I've wondered
this and haven't asked yet what the assumption is. But
is the assumption that Daniel Brian is going to get
the title shot at WrestleMania where it'll be built ahead
of time, or is Daniel Brian going to be standing
on the stage holding the briefcase watching perhaps the winner
of the World Rumble face the SmackDown champion, and then
when that match is over Brian, who's standing on the
stage watching doesn't blindside him. He just watchs through the
ring and cashes in. I don't know that what Brian said,
and maybe Jason, you know, let me know what your
interpretation of it is. I don't know that Brian's going
to actually get the official match. He'll just get the
moment after the match.
Speaker 4: I assume he gets the actual match. It just you know,
they but maybe not. I mean, it seems odd to
me that they didn't have him address why he didn't
run out and try to take the time from Christian
when he had a chance at money in the bank.
I really thought that was an opportunity to establish that
he doesn't want to win it that way. He wants
to be that guy that this is when I'm cashing
in and I want to do it the honorable way,
and they just kind of neglected that. So maybe you're right.
I haven't even thought about it that way. But excellent
point by the caller, you know. I mean, that's another thing.
What if Elberto del Rio And it's just, you know,
kind of an awkward hole that I don't think too
many people are thinking about. But what if the Rio
said the same thing I'm way didn't tell WrestleMania. Well,
if Sena holds the championship, then there's the match with
Rock off. I mean that I'd actually like to see
them play that up a little bit and it has
some fun with it where del Rio is threatening that,
you know, if Sena has that championship, he's going to
cash in. Maybe they're you know, I've never thought they
needed the WWE title in the Rock versus seeing a match.
I wonder if they will shy away from that now
because you know the reason the caller mentioned. If they
do go forward with Brian challenging for the World Heavyweighthchampionship
and then the Rumble winner goes after the WWE titled
and yeah, I mean, I don't think they're gonna make
Rock Scena in anyone a three way, So I had
I think they would almost have to abandon that idea
of Rock and Seen it for the championship.
Speaker 3: All right, Nick, thanks for the call. Let's move on
to our next call here and go to five six one.
Thanks for holding for forty two minutes. Please say your
name and where you're from.
Speaker 19: Brian from West Palm Beach I called, Uh, yeah, you guys,
last week as to uh, actually yeah, it was before
money in the bank. As to whether Punk could walk
out w w W Champion and Wade basically you know,
said it's not going to happen, and you know, I
just always had a feeling that it really.
Speaker 3: Was from from the lead up, so I wouldn't have
myself on the back for being wrong.
Speaker 19: Yeah, I had to rub it in your face a
little bit, guys, but no, that's not why.
Speaker 3: I not by the way, But anyway.
Speaker 19: I'm just sure as as to whether you know, I
saw Punk on the you know, the little Indie Indie
show and the Comic Con and he didn't have the
title with him. Is that w WE logo copyrighted? So like,
if you were to walk into another organization as a
guest appearance, could he have that title with him or
would he be violating trademark and copyright.
Speaker 4: While laws with in the w W. Well it's not one.
Speaker 19: More one more question. Nice wanted to get out because
I know you guys you know going depth with your answers.
Actually you should go ahead and answer that.
Speaker 12: Fu.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll that's at out hold, I'll keep on hold,
just stay right there for us it wouldn't be a
copyright violation. It would be a WWE sponsored angle. I mean,
there's nothing Punk is doing right now. They didn't give
Punk the win if they didn't have them resigned. They
didn't get Punk the win and have them the belots
and go gee, have fun. We hope you'll negotiate with
us for real. You're you know, here's a belt, you
can take it away. I mean, whatever Pump does with
the belt is endorsed by w WE. It is part
of the angle, even if it's outside of an official
w w E event. So Paul would have nothing to
worry about in that regard.
Speaker 4: I don't think, right, Nathan, Well, legally no, you know,
he'd be fine. Could like I think he brought it
to Comic Con. I could be off on this, but
I think he brought the belt with him to Comic Con,
but he didn't bring it to that AA w indie
show over the weekend. So let's say he brings the
belt to the indie show, Well, then he's not going
to get sued, but he's probably getting get an earfull
from WWE and it probably ends there.
Speaker 3: And why would he get it? Why would he get
an airfold Jathan for bringing the belt with him to
play out the angle, hoping it goes viral.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I don't know if that was It's
hard to say if that one was by design. I'm
not sure if that was something that they wanted him
to do or if it was just Hey's you know,
it's an indie show near his hometown and he's got
friends on the show and he was just hanging out
and thought, now what they all do this, or made
a last minute call to the office to get it
approved and just didn't have the belt with him. But
I don't know that WWE wants their World Championship bell
in on something where they could sell DVDs or they
could exploit it somehow and make some money off of that.
And it's just a guess, you know. I mean, maybe
they wouldn't have a problem with it. But if it
was something he didn't ask permission to do and he
just happened to show up addition, indis show without their blessing,
that's where I think he'd get the earful.
Speaker 3: My thing is is ninety nine point nine percent of
the problem WWE would have with Punk doing anything unauthorized
would be showing up himself. So I think the belt
is just in material. I mean, if Punk is a
champion and he's under contract and he shows up on camera,
you know, whether it's a camquarder, a fancamcorder, an official
indie camera. If he shows something to show without permission,
whether he has the belts or not, I think is
hardly the major issue. The issue would be ww be going,
you're o the contract to us, why are you going
to do another show participating at an angle? So again
I just yeah, I think the belt aspect is the material.
If he shows up, he's got permission. If he's showing
up without permission, I don't think he's in any more
or less trouble whether he has a belt on his
waist or not. Given the angle, you know, if it's
the storyline he took the belt with them, of course
he would have the belt with him. Why Winty, I
think it hurts the storyline. And even if he violent,
even if he doesn't have permission to do something, I
think WWE would be more upset at him if he
does something well off permission and does it without the
title belt. That's the centerpiece of you know, him running out.
So I don't know. Yeah, I just I just you
probably didn't have the belt with him, or you know,
forgot it or something. I don't think WWE would be
worried about the belt itself in that situation. So anyway,
Oh go.
Speaker 20: Ahead, wait one wold think yeah, yeah, okay, I know
you guys feel the whole tournament aspect of crowning a
new champion was a mistake on WWE in creative his part.
Speaker 5: Uh, do you feel.
Speaker 19: It was a mistake to put this belt right back
on scene again?
Speaker 9: You don't you feel the fans or just sit thick
of this?
Speaker 19: You know, one day goes viral, week goes by, and
you know, new championship belt out there and Scene already
has a hold of it. Ray Masterial holds it for
now on even two hours. I mean, do you just
feel that fans are just sick of seeing this? Do
you feel that it was a mistake on their part
so they could have just th Mysterial hold the belt
for you know, at least a month coming up to
Summer Slam. You know, I'm playing an angle with Mysterio,
I mean, considered belt with the heel and all that.
Speaker 3: I think what they did is they book themselves into
a corner. Brian and Jason mus comment on this. They
they want Sena versus Punk to be the match at SummerSlam,
I assume, and that's the way they feel they can
make money off of this angle is having Punk versus
Sina again a rematch, and it means a lot less
a Punk comes in with the real belt and then
what do you do with Rai's interim belts or fake
belts or whatever countership belt. I mean, you have to
get it back to Sena in order to make any
money off of, you know, in their mind, money off
of the unification of the interim tridle versus the one
Punk took with him. So that's an answer to that.
That's part of the answer. The other part is I
think ww he thinks fans feel passionately about Sena. He's
the top star in the company. And I think what
fans are sick of Sena fans are sick of is
being teased that he's going to be fired or going away.
And so I think WWE man panics and said, we
got to get seen of this, you know, Scena back
on top. We don't want any ambiguity about whether he's
back or not, so let's just get the belt back
on him. But mostly I think it's the picture that
you saw at Theana Ross, the one they wanted, you know,
two people standing each with a version of the world
title having to settle with score at SummerSlam, and I
don't think there's this. You know, the money isn't in
Ray versus Pump. The money's in Sina versus Pumpcason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the whole tournament. I didn't like it
last week. I thought it was really flat. That's one
of the things that I actually appreciated about last night
show is the way they made it feel relevant. Again,
part of it was just live crowds reaction to it,
but they did some things I thought early on with
the belt right there on the podium, and they made
it seem important, at least for that night. So that
was a good thing. But you know, I think they've
convinced themselves there's money in this unification, more money than
just a standard rematch between CM Punk and John and
John Cena. I don't know if it was necessary. I
would have been fine last night if they had Triple
H just started the show by saying, hey, we're we're
not doing this tournament, but they I mean, this is
that what it looks like to you? Would they really
think there's more money in this whole unification business than
there is just a rematch between the two? Yeah, yeah,
I do. I think that's this business money. I guess
I should I'll follow up with that. Do you think
they're right and that they needed this aspect to really
sell this and and you know, make it seem.
Speaker 3: Like a bigger deal. I think if the idea, what
if they're going to bring back Punk in time for
summer Flam. What they did last night was the right thing.
And you know, the tournament, I mean they could have been.
I mean the tournament looked like a lazy way to
fill last week's show with the matches that had inherent
meaning and to make it look like Vince's trying to
you know, quickly move off, move away from and and
and you know, the spirit of the idea was, well,
the title belt is so important, we need to create
a new champion quickly. I think that's where Vince was
coming from and the writers are coming from and presenting
that as the idea last week. I had no problem
with the tournament for title belt. I just have a
problem with trying to shovel on tournament out of a
two hour or ten minute show. I think that diminishes
the value of you know, main eventers against each other.
Plus one of our problems too with the lack of
long term planning and building up the people in the
tournament as being world title worthy. You know, you take
Punk and Seene out of the mix, and I think
it felt like, you know, an impostered tournament that that
didn't have as much meaning as it could have. But
in general, I mean, filling a vacated title with a
tournament makes sense. It's just more the detail of the
execution that I think we had some questions on. Right Anyway,
Hey Brian, thanks, I hope you'll call again later in
the week or next week.
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Speaker 3: Let's go to zero eight, seven to four. Thanks, we'll
make Please say name and where you're from.
Speaker 22: Boris from Chicago.
Speaker 4: Hey, let's go on.
Speaker 22: Oh wow, my number is still acts crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 22: I think last night was actually better than the tournament.
It did feel like it wrestling meant something, you know
what I mean, bringing Jim Ross back and hopefully they
Cole will be on SmackDown and not be the third man,
because as you said, we're tired of we're tired of
thing us tide of the cold characters. And I think
when listening to you guys having both belts, they had
to figure out a way to make pot value on
since they're going with it Punk Sina too. And I
think if they make Punk lose this this second one,
I think we'll go back to score one again because
what they did with Sina last night showed the example
of that. We go we got Supersina back again. No
matter what we do, we continue to go back to
super Seni, and I think to go forward, they have
to do something where they have to get overseen, you
know what I mean. And it's just I've just got
up that way. It's just Tobina's their top enus, most venus,
their top star, and so as long as he's there
top star, it makes sense to put him in the
top spot.
Speaker 3: And I don't see anybody else, including right Mysterio, who
does theer that spot more than John Cena right now,
So I don't know, I mean to me, it kind
of makes sense to get him back into the main
event mix. He's your top star. People who don't like
John Cena, I always ask him, here's a million dollars
and you're gonna invest in WWE, and you either get
all of it I'm sorry, you get none of it
back in six months, or you get it doubled. Who
do you want your top guy to be in the
next six months, And almost invariably everybody says, well, John Cena,
because I don't want to lose a million dollars. It's
nice to say for your personal reasons. I don't like
John Cena's too much of him, Super Sena is annoying.
But when your money's on the long and you look
at how crowds react and how they paid a cheer
or boo him, the fact is this is when it
gets down to it. If it's a dollars and sent situation,
which is what it is for Vince, people tend to go, yeah,
I don't like him, but I guess if a million
dollars was on the line, I'd probably continue to push
him four.
Speaker 22: So what do you think? So what do you think
we'll see him pump if they do this match and
build it up, will you think they'll make Sam Punk lose?
Speaker 3: Well, that's a really good question, Mark No, And I
mean nobody's asked it yet. You're the first tasket. Jason,
what do they do with Summer slab, Well.
Speaker 4: You know, I shouldn wonder if that's when don't Rio
cash is in regardless of who wins. I mean, I
don't know's that's where I worry. I mean, I agree
that Sina is the top guy in WWE and belongs
in the main event picture. I don't know that he
needs a WWE championship right now. I think that's what
becomes repetitive and does more harm and good to Sina.
Even if you're a big Scena fan, it's got to
get old watching him just overcome the odds so easily
every time. And I go back to the last Summer Slam,
that whole thing with Nexus. There are things they've done
that I think have damaged Sena. By just having him
plow through people, having the WWE team beating Nexus at SummerSlam,
just to give that show a happy ending, I thought
they really just cut the legs out from underneath Nexus
right there. That was kind of the beginning of the
end for me as far as that fashion is concerned.
And I do think there's different stories you can tell
with Sena that don't always have to evolve around that
WWE Championship. Now mis had a run with it, but
Sina was always in that picture, you know. I mean
there's a little bit of time where he was off
doing other things. I think that's the thing they need
to do more of to protect Sina when he wins
that championship. But should feel important. Last night, it didn't
feel important to me. It you know, the angle afterward did.
But it's just like I've seen one, you know, this
this version of the belt again, and there's there's only
so many times I think that really is going to
matter to people. I mean, if you I just I've
used this analogy before, but as a baseball fan, I
look back to nineteen eighty seven when the Twins won
the World Series is like the greatest thing ever. Ninety
one when they wanted again, Hey, it was awesome, but
it didn't have the same punch as eighty seven. And
I think the more time somebody wins like that and
it just happened so often, it does take away something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I mean I get what you're saying.
I just think if if you don't have somebody else
who's clearly I mean, if you go with the heel,
with the title for a long run, and you rotate
different faces in there. That's fine. You can try to
keep seeing it, occupy it in a second from the
pop position. But ultimately, I think part of what makes
Seen a more as champion defending the title work for
more people is one, like you said, creative truth out
to jeopardy, but put them against compelling heels and have
a two, three, four, five months few depending on the
level of successors. Heavily and slimately. He wins in the end,
but just make it an interesting ride. Make sure that
your heels are interesting characters and have good matches. And
I don't think the baby face winning in the end
has to be done in a way where scene it
doesn't sell at all, or it looks like it was
a foregone conclusion. I mean, make it look like it
was a real accomplishment, it was a real character building experience,
and give his fans a reason to think it's really
at risk this time. Part of that is, you know,
sell the idea that he's had to subtle Rain for
this long and all these people are lined up, and
you know, create this idea that he's got a real
challenge ahead of him, and focus on that and stop
trying to do shoot work stuff and stop having Michael
Cole talk about you know, stuff that it doesn't have
to do with it. Just tell the story, the basic story.
Here's a guy you should like, and here's why. He
plays by the rules. He fights odds that are sometimes
against him, and he barely escapes with wins, and he
doesn't always win. And then build some compelling, interesting heels
that you're entertained watching that storyline play out. I just
strip it down to the basics and do your job.
Get over the heels, and have an announcer who helps
you realize he should be booed because they represent a
way of going about their business that if your neighbor
did it like stealing from your garage, or your coworker
did it, which is cooking the books in his favor
in the sales office to make it look like he
was better than you. He cheated to get ahead. Have
fans and viewers relate to the idea that the heels
that are facing Seena are worthy of booing because they
act in ways that would drive you absolutely bongers and
insane if you had to deal with that in your
everyday life. Tap into what people experience in their real
life and have Seena represents something that's better about it. Now,
Sena's flowed. We've talked about that. You know, he has
his issues, goofy facial expressions, he says poopy, he talks
about wiping the floor mat and flushing Matt's down toilets,
and he tries to be funny in ways that aren't
his strength. And that's one of the flows with Seena.
But I think there's enough strengths there that just do
the formula better and I think things will work out
better than you know, trying to reinvent themselves and worry
about the latest social media trend or something like that.
Use social media to market the brand, but don't to
take over your storyline decisions. All right, let's go to
our next call. And looks like I got two callers left,
seven seven three. You are next up, Thanks for holding,
Please stay your name and where you're from? Hey, wading Jason.
This is Rob from Chicago. Yeah, go ahead, Robin?
Speaker 22: All right?
Speaker 3: Is there Rob or Bob or or something else?
Speaker 7: So?
Speaker 3: Oh, I guess he didn't like that I called him
Robert Bob. Did you hear his name? Jason?
Speaker 4: I thought it was robed from Chicago.
Speaker 3: All right, well, Rob, you're on hold for like forty
minutes and you just got disconnected. So if it's just
a cell phone issue, I'll look for seven to seven
three popping back up. Although you can't hear me right
now anyway, So what am I doing? Sorry? Maybe just panicked. Anyway,
we'll take our last call hopefully two o three. Well,
we'll be there two o three. You've been on hold
for just over a half hours. Thanks for holding. Please
stay your name and where you're from. Two o three,
two zero three? All right, maybe you just accedentally said
you wanted to call. All right, that is uh, that's
all the colors that we have woven unhold, So thank
you everybody for joining us. Jason, just because I'm not
feeling great, we'll just end the show here. We did
a nice bonus half hour there. Unless there's anything just
itching that you need to there's an itch you need
to scratch, we can do that. I'm good to go
if you want, Okay, thanks again, thanks every toy for listening,
Thanks for joining us. Jason of coercing dot net. Thanks
as always, We'll talk to you next Tuesday. Until next time.
Wait Tiller and be Appy Jason signing up.
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