Cory Hughes and James Day on Ciphered Past with Tim Gardner

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Speaker 1: Where history shadows cast long, unsettling doubts. The truth lies

buried from cryptic wartime codes to assassinations that scar generations,

unearthed the secrets the world tried to forget. Hosts Tim

Gardner and Eli Frame guide you through a labyrinth of

unanswered questions where every clue pulses with danger and intrigue

and perhaps an opinion or two. It's not all facts,

because history never is. Welcome to the ciphered past.

Speaker 2: Ah, welcome everybody to a new episode.

Speaker 3: Aside for past episode fifty one, I am your host

Tim Gardner. Eli is out today, he's out with vacation

with the family, so he gives us best of both

of our guests today.

Speaker 4: Our guests are I'm really looking forward to this episode

we have. We have James Day and we have Corey

Hughes with us today. Both veteran research of the JFK community,

both critical thinkers, both deep just in knowledge, and it

is an honor to have both these gentlemen on.

Speaker 3: As you guys know, with each episode, we don't do

a whole lot of fluff in the beginning of the episodes.

We just go right into it. So James, thank you

for being on the show with us and Corey. We

do appreciate it.

Speaker 5: Thanks thanks for having us.

Speaker 4: And Bayo will be down into the page and so

I do appreciate both you guys. I don't have my

show notes with me because something was off, so I'll

edit that out.

Speaker 3: But let's go ahead and start with just the latest

trends that are going on in both of your guys's

world right now. A lot to chew on, especially you know,

you gave a really important interview, lady.

Speaker 4: I want to hear a little bit about this James

and our audience about how who did you interview first

and foremost, and also give us a little bit of

detail on that.

Speaker 6: Oh sure, just over about just about an hour ago,

I spoke with Frank J. Shillona Junior. This was my

second conversation with him this year. I spoke to him

in January, made contact with him through a letter that

he answered, and we spoke by phone. But today was

the first time that I actually recorded the interview, and

it was just walking through his experience from the weekend

of the assassination. He was the roommate to Thomas Compton,

third at Southeastern Louisiana College in the fall of nineteen

sixty three. This was the dorm room where David Ferry

hung out the weekend of the assassination. So he told

me about those experiences. But I think maybe to set

the stage for the audience about why Chilwa was important. Corey,

I'm gonna push it over to you, because I think

you break down exactly why Chillana was so important in

your research.

Speaker 5: Sure, so David Ferry completely lied about everything he did

that weekend when he spoke to Jim Garrison. On Monday,

Jim Garrison pulls David Ferry into his office and he

talks to him about his weekend trip where he allegedly

went ice skating and then geese hunting, which is kind

of funny because the documents don't really talk about geese

hunting too much. I don't know if that was a

little bit of a embellishment by Oliver Stone, but that's

not really a focus of anybody's statements. But of course

David Faery is a liar, and he was one of

two shooters behind the picket fence, and so basically when

you get into the statements of Frank Jholalona, it debunks

David Faerry's alibi story about ever having gone to the

Winterland ice rink, which is a crucial part of the story.

When you study David Ferry, the majority of people's studies

should be on the Winterland and his alleged alibi story.

So for the audience, if you're not familiar, David Ferry

was allegedly seen in court that morning at the trial

of Carlos Marcelo, found not guilty. But all those witnesses

are either mobsters, mobsters lawyers, mobster's lawyer's secretary, or corrupt

FBI agent named Regis Kennedy. All right, it's one. It

is one hundred percent a nonsensical story. The reality is

David Ferry was in Dallas where he was one of

two shooters behind the fence and he and how do

we know this. We know this because the first real

investigative lead that anyone gets after the assassination. And forget

about Dallas in particular, because we know that most of

the shooters and plotters had nothing to do with Dallas.

They were from elsewhere.

Speaker 4: Uh.

Speaker 5: But what you have is the Jack Martin phone call

where Jack Martin calls the FBI. He's drunk, and he's

angry and he hates David Ferry, and he hates David

Ferry because he's forced to work with him in this

New Orleans kind of cruise surrounding Guy Banister, and he

knew that David Ferry was a pedophile. And so on

the day of the assassination, the evening of the assassination,

Jack Martin's drunk because he's an alcoholic, and he's angry,

and what does he do. He picks up the phone.

He calls the FBI and he tells him everything okay.

He tells him that David Ferry was in Fort Worth

two days before the assassination. Then he was supposed to

fly people out of there. But that's the part about

him flying people out is not true. Nobody got flown

out for the most part. And so that's the first

real investigative lead that anyone gets to the FBI gets

is that for Jack Martin phone call. And so when

you start to dig into David Ferry's alleged story about

how he left New Orleans on the day of the

assassination around six o'clock, drove through to Houston, arrives about

three or four in the morning, and then the next

day goes ice skating at the Winter and Ice Arena.

This whole story falls apart, and Frank Jhlona is like

the absolute key to understanding why the whole story is bunk.

And so I have the statements here? Can I screen share? Tim?

Speaker 6: Oh, you're muted?

Speaker 3: Sorry, there should be a link there at the very

bottom down there it says there we go perfect.

Speaker 5: So we'll go through Thomas Compton's statement first so you

can see the lies that will be debunked momentarily. Okay,

Thomas Compton is an old c ap friend of David

Ferry who is now at Southeastern College in Hammon, Louisiana. Hammon,

Louisiana is just over. It's just it's not too far

from New Orleans. Mister Compton continued to state that on

Sunday after the assassination, at five thirty am, he was

awakened by David Ferry in his dormitory bed at the

University of Southeastern and Hamon, Louisiana. Mister Compton state it

until this day he's uncertain how David Ferry located him

on this date. At this time, Dave Ferry was in

hysterics and near tears, as he stated, the police are

at my home and they've taken some of my things.

Compton stated that Dave Ferry did not elaborate on my

things and stated that Ferry also related that he didn't

do anything wrong. The two talked for a while on

different unrelated subjects, and then Ferry made two calls to

New Orleans, and Compton believed they were to g ra Gill,

attorney at law. Compton stated Dave Ferry left at approximately

eight thirty a m. On the same morning, and it

is believed he returned to New Orleans in a Ford

Falcon station wagon painted light blue. Very important Ford Falcon

station wagon, not a Mercury comment, which is what David

Ferry owned. Compton stated that Dave Ferry did not tell

him he'd been to Texas. Compton stated he'd never met

the Harvey Oswald and could also state he could not

connect him with the CAAP. Only knowledge out of Oswald

was from mister Bill wolf who headed the New Orleans

Astronomers Club. Now that last statement is a whole paradigm

to itself. I don't know why Thomas Compton knows Bill Wolfe.

That's a whole separate story. Because Bill Wolf knew Oswald

allegedly in Oswald's early life. But that's a four hour

conversation we'll have to have another time. So the most

important things here is that he's saying it was Sunday

after the assassination five thirty am. That's a mistake. Well,

it's kind of a mistake because when you combine that

with the statements that the cops have been at my

house and they're taken my things, that didn't happen yet,

that didn't happen till after midnight on Monday. So he's

wrong about that part of the statement. And when he

says he doesn't know how David Ferry found him, that

we will see is absolutely not the truth. So next

we have the statement of Frank j. Shlona Junior. I

believe this is the most important document in all of

Kennedy research period. This debunks David Faerry's alibi story, leads

directly to the Grassy Knoll and so the fact that

James here spoke with Frank Schelona who confirmed this. In

my opinion, it's the most important interview that's ever been

conducted in the history of Kennedy research because it confirms

that David Ferry was not at the Winterland it was

an elaborate alibi story, and that he was actually hiding

out in Hammond the whole time. So in the fall

of nineteen sixty three, my roommate was Thomas Compton. We

were residing in Holloway Smith Hall, Southeastern Louisiana College. I

think that on approximately November twenty second or twenty third,

he told me that a friend of his would be

staying in our room. So he was notified in advance

that somebody would become an estay, which debunks the notion

that Dave Ferry just showed up and that Thomas Compton

didn't know how he found him, okay, And so I

was told the reason that this person was staying was

said to be that so he could be where many

people could see him, okay. When he says that, remember,

Frank Schelona is an outsider. He doesn't know anything about anything,

and he just knows what his roommate told him. And

this statement here completely is connected to the Perry Russo party,

where David Ferry made very similar statements about having to

have an alibi and be in a public place where

many people could see you, okay. So this to me

directly connects to the Perry Russo party as well as

the Winterland stuff. Let me see, I don't remember for

certain whether I was ever told his last name. I

was told his name was Dave. I was told that

he was a psychologist. And it's funny because David Fairry

had the fake degrees showing that he was a psychologist.

And I found this and clipped it up here in

the upper right David Fairry psychologist, which was in the

local directory, which is hilarious to me. On the twenty

third of November, which is Saturday, in the afternoon or

perhaps the evening, I went to my room and found

the man sleeping in my roommate's bed. His back was

to me, so I couldn't see his face at the time.

I noticed, however, that he was sleeping fully clothed and

with his hat on. At this time, I also noticed

that his hair was very strange looking. I believe that

I was introduced to him later on in the evening,

but I don't remember the nature of the introduction or

was said, except that not much was set at all.

I asked my roommate about this man, and in particular

about his hair. I was told that he had pasted

theatrical hair. He was bald, and pasted theatrical hair at

the point where his hat met his head. I'm not

certain that he spent the entire night in the room,

or that he spent even more than a few hours

in the early evening. The next time I saw him

was Sunday morning in the lobby of the dormitory. It

was very crowded as everyone was watching the funeral. Now,

the funeral was technically on Monday, but they had a

viewing all weekend, So he's confused about the date here

because we know for certain, as per the official story,

even that David Ferry spent Sunday into Monday night here.

So basically he spent the entire weekend in Hammond, Louisiana,

not in Houston, not at the Winterland. And the only

time that he actually left here is when he will

drive some sometime the twenty third, after Frank Schilona sees him,

he will leave from the college and he will spend

the day driving down to Galveston, where he will check

into the Drift Motel. On that evening, he appears to

have met with a couple people, probably Arcacia. The two

boys whoever else was with them, because I believe that

there was more going on than any of us know

in Galveston. That's why they had to go there. Besides

the fact that on the evening of the twenty third

they check into the Driftwood. But somebody is still staying

at the Ala Motel in Houston, right. I believe it's

Jack Ruby, Jerome Blackman, and Candy bar because they see

a blonde woman there. Okay, And I can tell you

with certainty Jack Ruby left from Dallas and went to Galveston,

I believe, to take Andrew Blackman back to his boat

which was at the harbor. And then Blackman is interrogated

Tuesday by the FBI, Secret Service, everybody you could possibly imagine.

So this seems like a pretty fluid series of events here.

And so the idea that after all this time, Frank

told James that nobody had reached out to him to

talk about this stuff, which is crazy to me. The

interview that he just had, which will he'll be releasing soon,

is just absolutely smashes the official story. And why would

why would they have to come up with this elaborate

alibi story about David Ferry going to the Winterland and

going ice skating and talking to Chuck Roland. And why

did they have to fake all of that stuff? What

could be so big that they would have to come

up with this elaborate alibi story to cover for well,

I don't know. Maybe the fact that David Ferry was

in Dallas where he shot the president. Maybe that.

Speaker 4: So and so I just want to give you guys

a proper intro real quick, because I didn't have my

show notes.

Speaker 3: Now I have them, so let me just I'm going

to edit this and put it in here.

Speaker 4: So we're with Corey Hughes, the author of A Warning

from History and also in Black and Black and White,

right Eli or not Eli, but Corey, it's.

Speaker 5: Yeah, Lee, Harvey Oswald and Black and White right right?

Speaker 4: And you can pick up Warrington from History in Black

and White on Amazon dot com. And James Day is

an author of five books. The most recent is The

Fraud of Turin, which came out in October twenty four,

twenty twenty four, the critical analysis on the Shroud of

Turin and the medieval world in which the famed cloth emerged.

His previous work in It is his foray into the

JFK Assassination, the Mad Bishops, The Hunt for Earl England,

James and his assassin Brethren, and he is your book

The Golden Age of Movie Making out yet, James.

Speaker 6: It's completed, It's gonna be no, but it's not published.

It's going to be a companion piece to a television

series I'm producing, Oh Wonderful from my employer e WT.

Speaker 4: Wonderful, wonderful looking forward to that as well, So please

do check out both their work. And again, Corey, I

didn't mean to interrupt you, guys. I just wanted to

give you guys a proper intro to the show what

you guys deserve.

Speaker 5: So so, James, now that we've got the backstory, do

you want to talk about your conversation with French Scelona.

Speaker 6: I think the biggest thing that I wanted to get

Frank on tape was confirming that he actually saw Fairy

earlier on the twenty third. Then the statement originally said

he says he saw Fairy about ten am nine or

ten am on Saturday, sleeping, so he gets up. He

also says something very interesting about Compton. Compton cut from

the same cloth as Fairy, I mean, just like a

lab rat. All hours just kind of weird. He was

very rarely in his dorm room. So Chilona wakes up

Saturday morning, the twenty third. There's no one in his room,

but it's now unusual because Compident was usually at the

lab or doing it all like living his own hours.

Chiloona leaves to go get like say, breakfast. We think

he comes back an hour or two later, and that's

when he sees this man sleeping with his back to

Chiloona facing the wall. And he explains in the interview,

he'll talk about the hat that he sees, which is

spot on the hat that you've pointed out in Dealey

Plaza and kind of like a kind of like a

London fog type coat that he's got on as well.

I mean, the dude obviously didn't change. He crashed why

sheer exhaustion right from what and he was just just

just sort of sort of like okay. But he confirms,

like you said in the statement, he knew this guy

was going to come. This completely contradicts the whole fairy

crying over Compton's bed. By the way, how did Fairy

even get into the dorm u to the get up

to the guy's room. I mean everything must have been

unlocked back then. Okay, fine, well, well that's fine. But

then he knew where the guy lived, he knew where

to go. And then it's like and then the story

as well, Gray, Remember there's two there's one is I

just showed up to this guy's room. But it was

also g ray Gil told me that I should go

to ham in Louisiana. There's that too in the in

the statements. So there's a total contradiction to Fairy's story.

And and and and Shilona, like you said, who has

no skin in the game, who sixty years on is

completely like, yeah, I mean, this is it. This is

what happened is a one off thing. It was weird,

and I didn't think much of it, and we went

on his way. He didn't know Compton before they became

roommates in the fall of sixty three. They were both

from New Orleans, though, So.

Speaker 5: You know, I got happened. Did he happen to talk

about how he got contacted by Garrison.

Speaker 6: Yeah, he talks about that before we get into the

store and before we get into the actual weekend. He

said it was during the investigation. He's with some friends.

They're having coffee and a ham and coffee shop. There's

a young woman who was kind of a student slash

journalist who was really into the case. And then they

were talking about all the strange deaths that were occurring

at that time from witnesses and everyone. That's Clona's like,

uh okay, that's me. So he decided to go and

make the statement then and he and that was it.

He gave it to lou Ivan and and and and

uh s. Shelona says, his name lou Ivan is being

Garrison's assistant, as you know, and that was it. They

never they never followed up with him, and in fact,

I guess nobody ever followed up with him. Apparently someone

did in nineteen eighty one call hi him and they

had a conversation, but Jelona says, I don't remember that conversation.

So it sounds like they were trying to preserve that

story as much as possible.

Speaker 3: So do you think with the Shlona not remembering and

not recalling a certain amount of things.

Speaker 4: Obviously he was detailed enough to remember a lot of

key details, do you think there's any possibility that he,

like other witnesses that are still alive. Was is reserving something?

I mean, do you feel like you had full transparency

with that interview?

Speaker 6: Yeah? Okay, yeah, he doesn't say much, he really doesn't.

And we did have that. Like I said, I did

a video right after I talked to him in January, Tim,

just to kind of put it out on the record

about what I spoke to about. It was just like

one of those introductory phone calls. He called me back.

I wrote him a letter just out of the blue

and just said I'd love to talk to you. I

found his address in Tennessee. He called, and it's just

all you know, his the early eighties, and you know,

he told me he's going through some health trouble. He's

up and down. He's at an MRI recently. So I

told her, I want to get your story on tape.

Speaker 3: You know, you're.

Speaker 6: Still with us, you know, thank God, let's hear what

you have to say before, you know, all before this vanishes.

Speaker 3: Yeah. That's that's huge and a wonderful asset to the

JFK community. I mean, we don't mean we talked to

talk plum plumbly about a month ago and we were

honored to be joined by him.

Speaker 4: It was his wisdom and what have you. So basically,

you know, talking to somebody that still alive from that

time period.

Speaker 3: It is really that's gold. It really is.

Speaker 4: And regardless of like people's opinions about Tosh, you know what,

that's fine. But what I will say is is that

for him to share his story and like for Frank

to share his story with you, you know, it's a

major asset to all of us who are younger researchers,

who who are really trying to dig into what's going on.

So kudos do you both to you man, I mean

that that's a huge interview.

Speaker 6: Oh thanks, yeah, I mean to your point. I'll just

mention it. I'll just comment, you know, it is I

think a lot of the older generation researchers who have said,

oh I've talked to so and so or I talked

to him in ninety two or that doesn't register with

us because so many of these folks are are gone,

dying out and and we're of an age where this

is going can this will be lost to history if

we don't do what we can do to preserve the

truth while we still can.

Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think it's important to you because Corey,

you do extensive research into this particular topic. And I've

known you for just over a year now, and you've

really helped me out, especially get on a good, good platform.

So I appreciate you. But you know, the thing about

you is that you're really detailed in your work. And

that's what I appreciate you appreciate about you. I mean,

like you really, I mean, your work speaks for itself.

Both books are incredible. Your thesis specifically may differ from mine,

but what I do respect about you is that, dude,

I mean, even if I have a difference of opinion

from you, you You're.

Speaker 4: Like, Okay, well I could back it up with this,

I could back it up with that, I could back

it up with this.

Speaker 3: And I'm just I listened to you talk. I gotta

give you.

Speaker 4: Let me a lot of credit. Man, you are smarter

than literally anybody I know.

Speaker 5: Well, it's not it's not necessarily that. It's that I

was a cop for almost a decade, right, and I'm

a trained investigator, and besides just working the road for

that long, I went through thousands of hours of training

and investigations, and so when I started to get into this,

things just started to fall into place. And were obvious

right like here, I'm gonna share. Let me share a

picture real quick. I'm gonna screen share this picture. So

there's David Ferry walk in the railroad yards wearing the

same hat as described by Frank Jelona, the same suit.

That's David Ferry. Okay. Every cop in the world who's

investigating this case who looks at this picture is going

to be like, yep, that's slam dunk. But no, what

not Kennedy researchers. They want ten different facial comparisons. They

want a freaking lab report, and then they're like, now

I don't think it's fairy. Well, guess what. That's what

I got to say to you. This is the lack

of training in investigative topics. Okay. Any cop who sees

this the same guy under the same circumstances, with all

the doctor, all the background information we have, with the

debunked alibi and everything. Any cop in the world who

sees this picture is going to be like, this is

your nail in the coffin. But not Kennedy researchers. They

want to argue with me over it. Okay, It's utterly ridiculous,

especially when you hop back to this picture here. You see,

that's the description given by Ed Hoffman, a man with

the black hat with the wide felt band and the suit.

And then let me just hop to this picture here. Oh,

it's the same guy described by ed Hoffman, and then

is seen by Velma behind the book depository in the

gray Plymouth, where she describes the man how as having

real heavy eyebrows. Now, why does he have real heavy eyebrows?

Because he paints him on because it's David Ferry. There

you go, like, this is the most slam dunk case

that I would present to a state attorney or district

attorney any day of the week, and they would and

they would take it because there's far more than reasonable

suspicion here. There's way more than probable cause. We're beyond

probable cause. And if this was presented to a jury,

you're gonna get beyond reasonable doubt. And so that's how

I look at this whole thing. And the only people

who argue with me over this are Kennedy researchers. We

have not done a fraction of the research that I have,

and it's quite insulting.

Speaker 4: And I think some of the best researchers, though are

the ones that actually have an open mind about everything,

that can listen and actually have a conversation about things.

I mean, look, I mean you have so many people

passionate about like what they believe in and what have you.

Speaker 3: I always look at it like this. I mean that

the JFK movie came out and we were, you know,

blown away by it. A lot of us got into

it the feed this field. But there are a bunch

of know it alls in this particular community, and I

feel like the problem with that is that if you

think you know, not you Corey. I'm talking about like

different people in the community that especially I've talked to, Like,

you know, I made a mention towards a couple of

authors that have a major problem with me because I

question there and was taking mathis and the other guy

was telling you about and you know, they basically say that,

you know, I don't even know what I'm doing, but

I'm asking questions. That's the thing.

Speaker 4: I think that the power of a good researcher is

to always continue to ask questions and keep an open mind.

And I think the problem with a lot of the

people that are in this community specifically, they like to

make sure that they have really closed, like just a

closed perception of things, and I don't think that's very healthy.

Speaker 5: Well, I think that there's an overwhelming idea. Okay, I'm

gonna give you the generic. It's what I call the

official conspiracy theory, is that the CIA killed Kennedy over Vietnam.

That's like the persistent propaganda that gets pushed. That might

have been a small, compartmentalized bit of the motivation, but

it wasn't the overwhelming, large scale motivation. Everyone involved had

their own their own motivations, from the guys who gave

the order, to the middlemen, to the management, to the

handlers down to the guys who pulled the trigger. All

had their own different reason right. But this this notion

that it was the CIA and to the exclusion of

all others, including the mafia and the Israelis, you know,

that seems to be very common. Everyone wants to blame

this thing on Dallies and Angleton, who really at the

end of the day, the CIA works for the global elite.

Those guys are middle management at best, you know what

I mean. So the idea that they were behind it

is ridiculous. It's it's a global cabal. Of interests that

is running the world today that killed Kennedy, and it

includes the Israelis seemingly at the top of the pyramid.

And now why do I say that, Because we've been

controlled by Israel ever since they killed Kennedy and implanted

their Jewish puppet Lyndon Johnson, who then handed them the

keys of the kingdom. And where's the evidence for that?

I don't know. Maybe the USS Liberty m h, you know,

maybe the Civil Rights Act. Maybe every single goddamn thing

is Jewish handlers wanted to push. That's what Lyndon Johnson

did until he steps down and Nixon takes over, and

then he realizes what the problem is to what do

they do? They realize they can't kill him because they

just killed Kennedy, So they pull Watergate on him right

and frame him. And so that's the cabal that killed Kennedy.

So and they're still in charge today.

Speaker 3: Go ahead, So what do you both your take on

like so that Kennedy was pushing back against the nuclear weapons.

I'm interested in hearing both the guys take on this. Right,

you know a lot of people, you know, their opinion

about this basically states that like that wasn't a reason.

If it was Israel, it was because of like you said,

the global control I need more information as a researcher

in somebody who doesn't know enough about the nuclear weapon

type thing. I'd love to hear both of you guys

take on that, because I don't have enough information myself.

Speaker 6: God.

Speaker 5: So Kennedy's number one priority was to get rid of

nuclear weapons. He didn't want anybody having them, not America,

not the Russians, nobody. So as he's putting all his

effort into talks with Khrush Jeff about getting rid of

nuclear weapons, what happens you got the israelis a rogue

state who at this point it was it was announced

in Time magazine in nineteen sixty that they had a

secret nuclear reactor right in then the Jev Desert Demona,

And so it wasn't a secret to the world. Everybody

knew they were working on this. And this connects directly.

They were Polo Pennsylvania and Nu Mech where they stole

all of our nuclear material from the new Mech plant. Right.

So this is where you get into you know, Zalman

Shapiro and his cronies. They spent I don't know. Was

it fifty six to around sixty four, stealing somewhere in

the neighborhood of six hundred pounds of uranium that was

sent to the Najev Desert for their reactor there that

they still to this day don't acknowledge that they have

a nuclear program. Right, These are the worst. These are

the worst people that have ever existed on planet Earth.

And they took over our country when they killed Kennedy

on November twenty second, ninety sixty three and planted their

puppet Lyndon Johnson, who then gave them everything. And we

have been at their best ever since. Apak has been

allowed to buy our government out completely and totally. They're

ninety percent of our government. Takes a pac money, and

then what do we get dragged into? We get Israel

pulls a false flag on nine to eleven, drags us

into a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then you have

that list of seven countries that comes out that they're

going to take and what are we on right now?

The last one? Okay, you don't think that Israel took

over our country, took over the entire West after Kennedy,

and now control is pretty much goddamn everything. This right

here is the Jewish conspiracy that Hitler warned us about

one hundred years ago. It's we're living through it at

its peak, okay, and it's undeniable at this point, especially

when you look at what's going on and how our

country is getting wrecked. Gas prices are five bucks because

of Trump, who was owned by Israel, dragged us into

another war for them. Okay, I don't want to hear.

They don't control everything they do. And it's not just Israel.

It is a global cabal of Jewish interests that we've

been warned about for one hundred years that was allowed

to let flourish when World War Two ended. And so

that's what's going on in the world. This is the

kabal that killed Kennedy. And when you dig into the

micro details, it leads you right to David Ferry, New

Orleans clay Shaw, whose direct connection to CMC and PERMANDECKS

is the inroads to Dulles and Angleton and the Corsicans

and everybody else. Roy Kohane, who was Trump's lawyer, was

a board member of Index what I call the oversight

board of the assassination right the world and the assassination

make one hundred percent perfect sense to me. And if

it wasn't for taking out Kennedy, we wouldn't be living

in the shithole of a world we're in today.

Speaker 3: I agree with that one hundred percent. I mean, we

were living in purgatory, James, And what's your take on that, man?

Speaker 6: Yeah, so Ruby is really to giveaway. The problem is

is that Ruby Is had to inject himself into the

story in order to remove Oswell from the picture. You

follow Ruby, you follow the whole path to the conspirators.

Ruby was deep in It wasn't just some nightclub guy

who wanted to spare Jackie Kennedy. These cover stories are

so lame. I'm so tired of it now. That the

American press and the public, who were in shock at

the time went along with it, and so we had

to unravel a lot of disinformation, of course, But yeah, Ruby,

you just started digging into his connections and his I

mean it's obvious La Chicago, you know, Fort Worth, Dallas.

So that's the problem. The problem is is to me

is Ruby's is Ruby's involvement, But in terms of motive,

in terms of Israel, the thing is is JFK one

to peace. I mean that's not a Jim Douglas JFK

the unspeakable phrase. I mean, he wanted to end proliferation

of weapons. That was the whole point to him of

the Cold War, as you know, was just this atomic

race and who was going to be left standing at

the end. So that a country not yet twelve years

old when he ran for president in nineteen sixty was

adamant about that it needed nuclear weapons in order to

survive was not something that he was interested in. And

you know, you talk about a lot of these motivations,

well Vietnam being say, like Cory said, was a motive.

But you know, you don't really see the paper trail.

You don't really see the documentation that you have with

the Kennedy administration pushing non proliferation of weapons, pushing the

nuclear test Ban treaty, pushing disarmament. All this is documented

as being a foreign policy of the administration. Furthermore, you have,

as you know, the Battle of Letters, which are actual

documentation between the head of the Heads of Israel and

John F. Kennedy about wanting to get inspectors into Demona

and the pushback that he was getting because of it

and the threat that he basically said, we know we're

gonna have this, We're gonna have to really think about

how much we're contributing to your to your survival if

you're not gonna let us in. So, you know, at

this point, being surrounded as they were, as how Israel

saw itself as being kind of enclosed by enemies, you know,

they really thought this was pre Six Day War. I

think there was there's a thing before the nineteen sixty

seven war, and there's there's the Israel after the nineteen

sixty seven war. This is still a very early tenuous

period of its of its existence. So to have a Catholic,

the first Catholic ever, may not seem like a big deal,

but there's that fundamental difference between the roots of the

theology that go on that go deep into the formation

of a country, and a lot of people had overcome

Kennedy emerging as the first Catholic. So I don't think

that can be totally dismissed. But yeah, they saw that

the it's documented. I'm just saying that it's documented, and

that's a great argument for a motive. There not the

only one.

Speaker 5: And I don't even believe Kennedy wasn't even pulling out

he was. He was posturing, he had no intention of

pulling out nothing. Him and McNamara spent six billion dollars

on armaments in the previous year. Okay, you want to

see what someone cares about, show me where they spend

their money. And that's exactly what Kennedy did with six

billion dollars. So even the CIA and the ZR Rifle files,

they refer to his executive order of the troop reallocation

as an attempt to put pressure on DM to allow

the CIA to continue their war. That was it. That

was it. Kennedy wasn't pulling that out of nothing. So

all the people who are like, oh, they killed them

over Vietnam can just shut their mouth and go do

some real research.

Speaker 4: So you mentioned Jack Ruby just a minute ago, which

I found find interesting, and Corey and I have talked

about him off the air. We have a lot of

great topics I want to talk about, especially that photo

you and I talked about the other day, Corey that

I think is actually the lunchpin about debunking the some

Supperutter film. But before we do that, I would like

to talk about Ruby. There was a document that you

would wait in on X.

Speaker 3: It was about Ruby mentioning the firecrackers and d dealing

Plaza prior to the assassination. Could you break it down

for our audience about that document specifically and how important

it is. I mean, I thought, yeah, document is an

absolutely incredible.

Speaker 5: It's funny, it's I find it funny at the same time.

So a guy the FBI has an informant, a guy

named Vander Slice, and Vander Slice talks to the FBI

and he says, hey, he got a phone call from

Jack Ruby said hey, come down and watch the fireworks

with me. Okay, so he goes down to Daly Plaza

and he is watching. He watches everything happen, and Jack

Ruby is standing there with him. And then afterwards Jack

Ruby walks off towards the Dallas Morning News building. Okay,

this all comes out in a preliminary interview. And the

part I think is funny is that the FBI makes

repeated attempts to get like him to have a sit down,

formal deposition type thing, and like he never shows up

to it, and then eventually he gets beat up at

some point and then he just bails on the FBI entirely,

and the whole story seems to go away, which I

thought was just tim of the era when the FBI

would send someone to go beat you up, you know,

So today I think they just kill you. They just

have their black ops people kill you. They don't have

to outsource someone beating you up. But what's the problem

with this story, all right? The whole problem is that

Jack Ruby sitting up in the Dallas Morning News the

whole time. Multiple witnesses and photographs put him up there

from like ten forty five in the morning, all the

way past the assassination. And how do we know that

because we have a photograph of someone who people think

is Jack Ruby sitting in the background talking on the telephone.

But that's not Jack Ruby. That's Jack Ruby's brother, Samuel.

Samuel Ruby is a key person in this setup because

number one, no one talks about him. There's only like

less than ten pages of documents on him. I had

to go digging through old newspapers to find anything about

Sam Ruby. So Sam Ruby owns he was from I

think he spent some time up in Detroit also, and

some time in Chicago, but he owned Washetiria's just like

his brother Earl, and so he owned a couple of

Washetia's done in Dallas, and he had been in Dallas

for a year and a half prior to the assassination. Okay,

why is it no one has ever talked about this

person ever, There's no reason for it. So most of

the sightings of Jack Ruby on November twenty second weren't

Jack Ruby. They were his brother Samuel Ruby, in the

background of the interview at the Dallas Morning News in

the hallway of the Police Department. And you know, for

a while, I also believed that Samuel was at the

midnight press conference in Jack's stead, but I am I'm

willing to change my opinion on that because I realized

that we don't have Jack Ruby in Houston or Galveston

until Saturday, so he could have been there at the

midnight press conference. I still have to do some finalized

work on that. But the midnight press conference isn't interesting.

Who's who of people up in that place. But that's

a whole other story.

Speaker 3: I've Samuel Ruby. Sorry, I'm just gonnay. That's kindly interesting.

You and I've talked about this before. The certain movements

of the well first and foremost, if you look up

Samuel Ruby, I mean, if you're just generically looking him up,

he will not be able to find anything about the guy.

Like Corey's talking about, I can't even find an image

of what the guy looks like. So I have no

idea who what what he looks like.

Speaker 4: Second of all, with it's like the multiple sightings that

you see at Ruby, like it is in d Lely Plaza,

and then you see people alleged that he was at

the hospital, and then you know it was alleged also

that he was in the area where Tippitt had gotten killed.

You know, I think it's really important for our audience

to understand, like who where was Samuel at this time?

Speaker 3: Where was Jacket this time? What's going on? And you know,

it's a debris of confusion.

Speaker 5: Right, And all of the sightings of Ruby on Saturday

up until the Oswald shooting Sunday morning, all of them

in Dallas were Samuel. Because Jack had to go to Galveston.

Jack brought Blackman back to his boat and he stayed

at the Alamotel that Saturday night while the other guys

were at the Driftwood and so and not only that,

I have a document. Jack Ruby is seen in I

forget if it's a hardware store or a sporting goods store,

but he's seen there buying or selling a gun. And

so this was reported after he shot Oswald and somebody

recognized him from the television and said that they saw

him in this store. So all the sightings on Saturday

were of Samuel Ruby, not Jack Ruby. The fact that

there were here we go is another identity sort of

low key identity transfer operation with Jack and his brother,

and that should clarify Jack's timeline over the weekend, because

if I'm not mistaken, from the time of the assassination

all the way through that shooting that morning of Oswald,

he's seen in multiple places at once, right, which is

a theme in the story of to Kennedy assassination, people

being in multiple places at once or places where they'

not supposed to be right.

Speaker 3: James, what do you think about that, Bud?

Speaker 6: If you look at Ruby, look call the Ruby. Depending

on who it is that we're talking about, he is

indeed a very busy person that weekend, particularly though for

my interests is what he was doing on Ruby was

doing on Sunday morning, like super early Sunday morning, like

four or five am Sunday morning, he went out and

took a photograph of a billboard off the Stemens Freeway

that says in Peter o' warren, would you do that?

I think I think there were agents or assets. I

think Ruby was straddling between factions of the Zionus organized

crime element and factions within the radical right, and that

there was some kind of coalescence there and he was

the bridge between the two. Mil Tier Joseph Miltier, the

klansman who is supposedly in Dealey Plaza, loved what happened

in Dealey Plaza because he was able to the Radical

Wright would place the blame of the assassination of the Jews.

Ruby talks about fear of a kind of Jewish hope

grum against his Jewish people when he's in jail, So

there's like some kind of collision going on. I think

Ruby was either trying to make some kind of insurance

policy with that photograph or just to kind of leave

a trace of like when you know he would be investigated,

that he was kind of leaving a trail. There was

even a there was an hl Hunt Lifelines magazine found

in his car. So that's another example there a hunt

appears here and there throughout. So yeah, that's what I

think Ruby was up to. Also, Ruby has a friend

who lived behind General Walker called Sam Gilbert, who was

a photographer in World War Two. You and I do

believe it's my hunch at this point unverified though, that

Gilbert knew clay Shaw when clay Shaw was aide de

camp to General Thrasher during the war, and that's how

that started. But really that Walker shooting, which is complete

nonsense in April of nineteen sixty three, which eventually was

like the you know, blame that Oswald took a shot

as a way of like he was starting now his

assassination process. Why would you know? That was total just

total garbage. But there's a witness who said that there

after the Walker shooting in April sixty three, someone ran

behind the alley behind Walker's house and into Sam Gilbert's house.

Sam Gilbert had a dark room, so he was a photographer.

There's also he also had Israeli passports on it. And

amazingly the witness who's the daughter of his housekeeper. So

this woman, you know, I trust this woman's he gave

a statement to the HSCA said he Gilbert's best friend

was Jack Ruby. Moreover, Gilbert in the years after the

assassination was fearing for his life, not a surprise. And

this woman, although the official stories that he died in

nineteen sixty five, we have his death certificate. This Gilbert

guy died of I think cancer of sixty five, something

like that, more heart attack. This woman thinks she this

guy fled the US and lived out his days in Israel,

and then he faked his death. And when you think

about that, you think about Lanski lean to Israel for

a time. You know, that whole dual citizenship, diplomatic you know,

you gather your passport, you can get out, et cetera.

You know, it makes me wonder if Ruby was even

if Ruby even died in sixty seven, as they say,

so who knows.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to get to that here in a second.

But I think it's really important that we also address

things that we could address during this.

Speaker 5: But I think one real quick, I got I got

a couple of pictures like gonna show real quick.

Speaker 6: I love this.

Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is the only this is the only

known like early photograph that I know exists of him.

And I didn't even find this in a picture anywhere.

I actually this was this was a still scene in

a fucking documentary that I watched from like twenty years ago. Wow,

And this picture just pops up for like a split second.

So I had to find it, rip it, screenshot it,

and that's the only place that this exists.

Speaker 3: He's literally a doppelganger of his brother Mike Goodness.

Speaker 5: Right right, So this I got to assume is in

the forties, late forties or fifties sometime. But I got

another one here. Let me show this one. This is

a picture from the Dallas Morning News, the same guy.

You can tell because the hairline here, the bald spot

is wider here than on Jack. Jack doesn't have that

little bald spot right there, and Jack doesn't have a

left index finger. Okay, so this is Samuel Ruby trying

to give his brother an alibi. You note how allegedly

Jack Ruby got on film like four times that weekend,

like one, two, three, Yeah, four times, four times over

the weekend he got on film. Kind of crazy, huh.

It was alibi stuff. Most of it was aliby stuff

because Jack was doing other things and Samuel was giving

him an alibi. So Jack doesn't have an index finger there,

it was bitten off. And so that's Samuel Ruby. It's

so funny when you watch the video of this. This

is the video where the guy's like, we have breaking

news here Kennedy. President Kennedy was shot just moments ago

in Dally Plaza. That's this video. And you see sam

just slips into the background and picks up the phone

and make a phone call, and the finger is the

dead giveaway. And then we have like the famous photo

here that everyone knows and everyone is confused by. And

now it's this one here where he's in the hallway

of the Dallas Police Department. Right, So none of this

is Jack Ruby. This is Samuel Ruby giving his brother

an alibi, because where's his brother at this point? His

brother probably went over to Parkland and then bounced somewhere else.

And then what's going on about this time? This is

probably about the time the Oswald is getting pulled out

of the theater. So right about this time, Jack Ruby

is off somewhere getting ready to make his phone called

al Ruber. Wow, this was going on at this point.

Speaker 4: This is so damn fascinating. I mean, like I've talked

to other researchers about Samuel Ruby. They have no idea

I know about it, and it's just to hear this information.

I certainly think it's possible, absolutely, because like you see

in the picture you just showed us, they look a

lot of white man.

Speaker 5: But enough to know it's not Jack. And that's enough

to know it's not Jack.

Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. So we had Paul Abbott on the show

about couple of weeks ago, and you were mutual friends

obviously with Paul.

Speaker 4: What I found interesting is that he did I mean,

I didn't even know this before I interviewed him. The

fact that they had a bag like pre arranged to

put over Ruby or whoever shot.

Speaker 3: Well, that's crazy, man. They had the whole damn thing staged.

I just that still blows my mind. I mean, and yeah,

I just think it's crazy.

Speaker 5: I don't pretend to really know the details of what

happened in that basement. I haven't. I've gone over that stuff,

but I haven't really done an intensive, you know, analysis

of all the statements and everything. At some point I

really need to do that.

Speaker 3: Yeah, why would you have a lot of people.

Speaker 5: A lot of people suspect that that wasn't Jack Ruby.

A lot of people suspect it wasn't even Ruby until

they had the bag and they did a swap rou

you know what I mean. So some people think somebody

else did the shooting and Ruby was already there and

they just paraded him out like and.

Speaker 3: That's that all things. Paul thinks that it's a possibility

that wasn't Ruby, right because if the reason why, and James,

I'd love to hear your take on this is that again,

when the shot came out, they already had a bag

like over his head, like when they were tackling him. Mean,

who does that?

Speaker 5: Well, let me come at this real quick, let me

comm at this real quick. The one thing that would

indicate it was Ruby is that when he was identified

in the store in Galveston with the gun, the person

initially identified him by the hat and the hairline in

the back. He's like, oh, that's the guy. I just

saw that guy, And so the first thing that triggered

him was that was the hairline in the hat. So

that would tell me it was Ruby, right. So but

nonetheless having the bag there, and I mean it it

was it was more Truman show. It was more stuff

that was played out to be as it was supposed to.

Then you have the honking of the horn of the

cars when people are coming out. There's a lot of

weird stuff. And the fact that he got shot in

the gut and just died right away from a shot

in the gut, I mean they might they might have

Martin Luther Kingdom. You know, Martin Luther king didn't die

from the gunshot to the neck. He was suffocated in

the ambulance. The same thing could have happened to Oswalden.

Speaker 4: You know what's interesting about that is that James, I'll

let you cut in here in a second, I appreciate it.

What I find interesting about that is also if you

watch footage, Captain Fritz looks over at the shooter prior

to it happened. He just glances over and then he

has enough space to stay far away. So when the

shooting does happen naturally, like if you you know, if

you're not expecting somebody to get shot, you're gonna be startled.

Right If you see the footage of Fritz himself, he

just is like, you know, he like, Okay, I expected

this to happen. I mean, that blows my mind too.

It's just I mean, like you mentioned, Truman Show is

just a Truman show. But James, I'd love to hear

you taking all this.

Speaker 6: I have Paul Havebtt's book. I've started, I haven't haven't

read it yet finished it. Really but it was a

cover up first there.

Speaker 5: Was, you know, so I truly believe that Oswald was

supposed to die in that theater. Yeah, and that didn't happen.

The theater story was weird. I can't figure out exactly

what happened. Obviously, Oswald didn't known that gun. The cops

brought the gun to frame him, but at some point

in time I found in one of the statements, which

was one of the most important that I had never

seen before, that gun ended up on the floor. They

ended up dropping the gun, which completely draws into question

what really happened with the gun in the first place,

because they say Oswald drew it and tried to shoot,

but it got it got jammed. I think the story

is opposite. I think they were gonna shoot Oswald in

that theater. He grabbed the gun, stopped it from going off,

wrestled with them. It ends up on the floor, and

then their whole plan went right out the window.

Speaker 6: Phon of him getting pulled out of the theater by

a very cigar chomping you got that cigar and isn't

But he's wearing a white T shirt. This is you know,

kind of like this, So where did he get the

sweater when he's shot?

Speaker 5: Well, he's got the he's got the brown long sleeve

shirt on over it.

Speaker 6: Is that and that's at But he's wearing a sweater

when he's shot.

Speaker 5: I think, yes, yes, they gave him. They gave him clothes.

They gave him those clothes. He didn't known those.

Speaker 3: So yeah, that's that's a trip, man.

Speaker 4: I just to think about like how I mean, and

Paul broke that down really great, which I appreciate that.

But just the fact that you know they had a

bag ready, I mean, the whole thing was pre coordinated obviously.

I mean, there's no way in chance. I mean, they

couldn't let Oswald live to Monday. There's just no way.

Because the more times than he had to talk, you know,

we look at we look at what you know, his

press conference guys, and the way his reaction is is

when they're like, well you you are being charged for

the murder of the president.

Speaker 3: He's just like, yeah, yeah, it's just like.

Speaker 5: Out so Oswald. This is when you get into the

Texas theater stuff. The Texas Theater stuff I find to

be the most fascinating because I think it's another ending

cater that Oswald was being handled. You know. He goes

in and he sits in front of Jack Davis, the

eighteen year old kid, and then he gets up and

sits directly next to Jack Davis. And there's only twenty

five people in this nine hundred seed theater. And Jack

Davis is like, what's wrong with this guy? He's like

right next to me, and there's a big empty theater here.

What's going on? And Oswald does that two or three

more times before going and sitting down next to a

pregnant woman. And then he and the pregnant woman go

and leave to go to the lobby. The pregnant woman leaves.

He then buys popcorn at exactly one fifteen PM, one

minute before the tip of shooting is supposed to happen.

The tips shooting is supposed to happen at one sixteen.

Obviously it didn't. The tip of shooting happened at one

oh six so you got Oswald in here meeting people.

It's a pre arranged meeting spot. Jack Ruby is in there.

The cops not to show up there. We're supposed to

believe that the cops show up there because of the

phone call from Julia Postal, But no, she makes a

phone call and cops are there before she hangs up

the damn phone.

Speaker 3: I agree with that. So let's take a step back.

I had no idea Jack Ruby was at the movie theater.

That's yeah, really, wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 5: He's seen by a guy named George Aplin. George Aplin

gave a big statement to well, initially the FBI, but

they didn't do anything with it, and then he gives

it to God. I forget which researcher got this out

of him, but that same researcher is the guy who

spoke to Bernard Hare at Bernie's hobby house, who confirms

the second person, the second Oswald in the Texas Theater.

And so the second Oswald in the Texas Theater who

got taken out of the balcony, And we know there

was one taken out of the balcony because a stringfellow

wrote that report. And so I've got that report where

he says they arrested the guy out of the balcony. Okay,

so now we definitely clearly have the two Oswalds in

the theater. Now I saw you posting about the two

Oswalds in the theater last week on X and so

this seems to be it's ridiculous, But no, it makes

perfect sense when you understand the background of the tip

of shooting, what happened at the tip of shooting, and

who was living at the boarding houses. And this is

where all goes back to Carry Thornley and the Perry

Russo party and all the Kerry Thornley stuff. Right, Carry's

Thornley is so entrenched in this and no one ever

talks about him. And even Garrison had a file folder

that was labeled Carrie Thornley as alternate Oswald.

Speaker 4: And see, and again I don't have enough information. I

need to keep learning about Thornley. But I mean, so

my interpretation was, and I'll just give you guys, you

know I'm not right a lot of the time. So

my thought process is is basically Oswalk goes to the theater, right,

he gets in there, and I agree with you, he's

hopping around sitting to different people. Butch Burrows makes the

claim that he sees Oswald Calm collected getting popcorn.

Speaker 3: Cool, you know, and he.

Speaker 5: Probably doesn't even know the president shot. He probably doesn't

even know anything, because if by my calculation he would

have been, he would have already been in his cab.

He caught a cab from I'm telling you he caught

a cab from Fort Worth to the movie theater. He

doesn't at the book depository. He caught a cab from

Ruth Payne's house to the movie theater, and the assassination

would have been happening at this time, because it's at

least a thirty minute cab ride to the theater from

fort Worth, of course, and so and so he's in

the cab the whole time. He goes into the theater,

and then he meets his handler, and then he goes

and talks to Butch Burrows and buys popcorn at one

point fifteen. He probably doesn't know anything. He doesn't know

a damn thing.

Speaker 3: Well, and that's what I was about to say.

Speaker 4: The postal thing is really weird to me because again,

anytime that she was ever interrogated by anybody that wasn't

in the government, she would literally be emotional because, in

my opinion, she knew she was bullshitting and lying about

the whole thing. Yeah, you know, I my thought process

is is that obviously Oswald's already there at the theater.

You get the second Oswal that comes in, the guy

that's following and forgive me, Corey, I don't know the

guy's name that that would that was following him, but

basically they're tracking him and that's when pulled Johnny Brewer.

So that's that's what I think happened. Basically, is that

you had Oswald are there, and then whatever happened after

the tip, did the guy that was the guy that

everybody said they saw going into it, and that was

the guy that was arrested up in the balcony.

Speaker 3: That's my opinion.

Speaker 5: I yes, that So the most important part the foundation

for the tip of shooting is the boarding houses, and

you have to come to understand Oswald never lived at them.

Ruth Payne told a bunch of people that day the

twenty second that Oswald lived there, until later on that

evening she changed the story. So she was told, Hey,

Oswald lived at boarding houses because Oswald didn't live at

the boarding houses. Kerry Thornley lived at the boarding houses.

You can tell this a whole bunch of ways. But

one of the ways the guy was dirty and Oswald

was never dirty. Right. You can see this pattern all

over the place. Uh, he had dirty fingernails, right, and so,

plus he had an attitude, and he was a real asshole,

a real arrogant guy. And so once you come to

understand that it was Kerrie Thornley at the boarding house

on North Beckley, and you realize it was Carrie Thornley

at the Jiffy store buying Pigo brittle and beer. And

then it was Carrie Thornley at the Top ten Record

store that morning, not Oswald. This is where you get

the holy shit moment for JD. Tippett, because once you

realize it's not Oswald at the Top ten Record store

where he bought tickets to the Dick Clark show, which

is a whole weird thing. He bought a ticket to

the Dick Clark show. Then he leaves and comes back

and buys a second ticket to the Dick Clark show.

What's he doing? What the hell was he gonna? Was

he supposed to meet his his was he supposed to

meet a handler there and it got changed to the

Texas Theater. I don't think so. The Texas Theater was

too set up in advance for that to be the case.

But the Dick Clark show ends up getting canceled, it

doesn't happen, so we can't have the meeting there anyway.

But once you realize this person is carry Thornley, based

on numerous factors and evidence, his description, his attitude, his

cleanliness is how he was groomed the whole nine yards,

you come to realize that Oswald didn't live in any

of them. It was Kerry Thornley at the boarding house.

And then you realize you get at the two, the

cop car pulls up front of the boarding house, honks

the horn. It's Westbrook and Croy, And so when you

really dig through all the statements, you come to find

that it was early in Roberts. She says that Oswald

quote unquote walked in and was there only long enough

to grab his jacket and leave again. So he wasn't

there for like five minutes. He was there in and

out in probably thirty to forty five seconds. During this time,

the cops honk the horn and they drive off towards

Zang Boulevard. Well, the tip of shooting happened at one

oh six. We're at the absolute latest at this point

one oh two pm. And so what you have is

Carrie Thornley walking out of the of the front door.

He walks down to Zang Boulevard where he meets the

cops who then drive him to the tip of shooting.

The vehicle is the cop car is then seen while

Tippet's getting shot. The cop car is seen in the

alleyway witnessing the whole thing by Doris hole This is

written about by Dale Meyer, who watched his own article.

It's funny. We'll talk about that another time. But when

you come to understand, Doris hole In witnesses two men

at the Tippet shooting. One of them is an Oswald

look alike. But Oswald couldn't be it because Oswald's already

in the theater. Oswald walked through the front door of

the theater between one o'clock and one oh seven. As

per Bush Burrows, this shooting happened at one oh six.

So the person that Doris hole And is seeing is

not Oswald. And guess who also it isn't. It's not

William Seymour either, and why not. William Seymour was the

other Oswald impersonator, and William Seymour is over at the

Tidy Lady Laundry about ten blocks away at this time,

it couldn't have been him either. And the only Oswald

impersonator in Dallas who's left, who was living at the

boarding houses, who was seen all over the place, oftentimes

with a pregnant woman with a kid in the backseat

of a car. The only person left is Carry Thornley, right,

and so Carry Thornley was living at the boarding houses.

And once you understand that after him and David Ferry

shoot JD. Tippett, they will He will then flee to

the second hand junk shot on Jefferson, while David Ferry

will flee. I believe he fleed to the house on

Belmont in Fort Worth where Kenneth Glenn Wilson gets arrested,

But that's a whole nother story. But ultimately Kerrie Thornley

will go to the secondhand junk shop he can't get in.

This is all seen by Dorothea Dean at Dean's Dairy Way.

She will then take her. He will take his jacket

and throw it onto the tire rack behind the Texico,

not under a car. And then this is where Dorothea

Dean who owns the Dean's Dairy Way, will go and

collect the jacket and then give it to the cops

later on. So we have two different stories on how

the jacket got collected. Interesting, huh this person is This

person is only wearing a white T shirt at this point,

no brown shirt, just a white T shirt. From there,

they will make their way to Hardy Shoe store. Where

who's inside a Hardy shoe store? You got Johnny Brewer,

and you got Tommy Rowe, Tommy row and Eger Waganov

of course with the red Ford Falcon. So you got

Tommy Roe, who's a close associated Jack Ruby, a mob

slash CIA guy will end up giving Kerry Thornley his

car here momentarily, and you got Carrie Thornley and Johnny Brewer.

The whole thing's a big setup. It's a more Truman show.

And so then from there, at one thirty six pm precisely,

Carry Thornley will walk in the theater bypass Julia Postal

at the front desk and go up to the balcony.

This is where the balcony story comes in because this

is the person who came in at one thirty six pm.

It is Carrie Thornley, and this is obviously a pre

arranged meeting spot. He will eventually be arrested, seen by

Bernard here Bernard's hobby house. And then five minutes after

he's arrested and dragged out the back door, he's seen

over by the Mexican restaurant and the car place where

he is in Igor Waganov's red Ford falcon wearing the

white T shirt. Okay, five minutes so the cops are

in on this. They arrest him and they funnel him

out to the back door and get him a getaway vehicle. Okay,

who is involved with this? Stringfellow Gerald Hill are involved

with this, so they're corrupt, right, And that's the story

of the tip of shooting and the Texas Theater basically,

and how there were two who ultimately ended up there.

So wow, here's the thing. Kerry Thornley will be later

seen that night. So where are we talking? What time

is it we're talking about? We're talking about it's around

two o'clock right, give or take. It's around two o'clock

by this point one Carrie Thornley will make it back

to New Orleans that night, where he is seen at

the Bourbon House in New Orleans. We don't know what

time this is, but it has to be pretty late.

What's it like an eight hour trip or ten hour

trip to get back to New Orleans. So that's the

that's the chain of events with Carrie Thornley until he

ends up back in New Orleans.

Speaker 4: We're joined by authors James Day and Corey Hughes. You

could pick up their work on Amazon dot com. I

have another question, so, Cory, you and I talked about

on the phone the other day about the apartment to

night that Jack Ruby was arrested after he he killed Oswald.

So there was a there was a meeting there between George,

Senator Tom Howard, Jim Cofy, and of course Bill Hunter.

And Bill Hunter dies in a draw at a police

station months later, and then Jim Colfe gets killed or

like he in all his notes taken in his apartment

by a parent karate chopped to the throw. Tom Howard

dies a couple year is it about a year later

or two years later? He gets he dies of a

heart attack. So Senator lives through this whole thing. But

my question to both you guys, and I'm really fascinated

to hear your take on this, is what do you

think that they saw that night at the apartment.

Speaker 5: I have no idea. This is probably one of those

things that'll be lost to history. But I've seen except

this story has popped up for me in an unusual place.

For some reason. This story came up when I was

investigating Jean Pierre Lafitte many years ago, probably four or

five years ago, and I haven't gone back to revisit this,

but for some reason, I believe somebody speculated that Jean

Pierre Lafitte was involved in these murders somehow, because y'all,

Pierre Lafitte is involved in that Wormwood story. He ended

up throwing that guy out of the hotel window in

New York. You know what I'm talking about, the scientist

with the LSD like Jean Pierre. Yeah. Yeah, Jean Pierre

Lafitte and Spurrito threw that guy out the window. So

that's what Jean Pierre Lafitte did. For a while, he

was an all around CIA Federal Bureau of Narcotics con man,

and so he could have been involved with that. I

don't have any other evidence of that except that it

was referenced in some of my research. But I did

read somewhere in the Faery files also that Fairy's death

could also have been explained by a karate chop to

the neck. And I don't know if that was sheer

speculation on that part of that person, but that was

thrown out there as a possibility also. But no, I

don't really have any kind of big theory on it.

So one thing I'll say is, so there are other

researchers out there who just don't participate in the community whatsoever,

like Ryan Dawson. Ryan Dawson studied this for decade, a

decade before I even got involved it, and he stated

to me that he determined that George Senator was the

one driving the white Pontiac station wagon that was seen

multiple times in Daily Plaza, and that there was a

phone call made to the cops because it stopped at

a gas station and multiple rifles were in the back

seat and somebody called it in by the cops got there.

Time the cops got there, they were gone. So Ryan

Dawson told me that that was George Senator how he

concluded that he didn't say, but he's got a lot

of nuggets of information that have turned out to be

very true over the years.

Speaker 3: James, I'd love to hear your take on this, said

what I mean, just you know, if you want to

speculate on what you think happened that night or what

information they gathered, I'd love to hear your take on this.

Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know enough, but I will

mention if I can about Thornley, because before I got

to know Corey, I was putting Thornley in New Orleans,

and part of it I thought that maybe it was

Thornley who filled out the aut what Tchweitzer application when

the quote unquote Oswald was applying to Albert Schwinzer College.

But one thing that I and I went to Kennedy's

in king dot com, the very reputable source, and there's

an article that called carry Thornley a new look, and

it appears if I can read this and see what

Corey has to say, shortly after Kennedy's assassination, I'm assuming

this is eleven twenty two, shortly after Kennedy's assassination. He

accompanied now he's talking about Cliff Hall, the program director

of WSHO. He accompanied Carry Thornley to WDSU TV station. There,

Thornley was interviewed about Oswald and he rendered the same

information he essentially gave the Warren Commission. But then something

odd happened. Thornley and Cliff Hall went out for a drink.

Thornley now admitted he had seen Oswald since the s

it was in New Orleans. Haul asked him if he

knew Oswald well, and he said yes. He did. Prency's

interview with Richard Berness January tenth, nineteen sixty eight. I've

never seen the Carrie Thornley supposed interview on eleven, twenty

two four eight thoughts.

Speaker 5: Right, yeah, I've never seen it either. But let me

just say this, So he somebody from sw SHO personally

went with Carrie Thornley over to WDSU in order to

do an interview. Why what is the James You probably

know my work well enough. What is the one thing

that's jumping off the page for me when I when

I hear this.

Speaker 6: Oh who's that fellow corporan?

Speaker 5: Oh no, nothing in the Corporand we'll get to him

in a second. But no, I'm thinking of what phone

calls were made from the Alamo Hotel.

Speaker 6: Well, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 5: It's the This is why I'm telling you. The phone

calls from the alam Hotel to WDSU and w SHO

were to check in with Carrie Thornley. They were acting

as cutouts for Carrie Thornley.

Speaker 6: So my question to you then, would this would be

great if we can reconcile this is did Thornley get

back in time?

Speaker 5: Those calls were made Saturday? He was definitely in New

Orleans Saturday. One witness puts him at the Bourbon House

on Friday, and so yeah, yeah, he definitely. So what

I'm thinking is he got that red he got Igor

Waganov's red car red Ford Falcon, and he drove that

back to New Orleans immediately. I'm talking like two o'clock

in the afternoon. He got a hell out of Dodge

and probably went straight to the Bourbon House to create

some kind of alibi ish right late. But hey, I'm here.

I'm here on November twenty second, in New Orleans at

the Bourbon House, right, So that's probably what he did.

Speaker 6: So he necessarily wasn't on WDSU then Friday, but he

was definitely not that weekend, and the call was and

what's he doing on there? He's sullying the persona of

Lee Oswald. He's he's calling and he does the same

thing in the newspaper, the New Orleans States item couple

days later, he said, you know, he's said calling him

a loser, he's calling him, he's called him crazy, he's

calling him an idiot. And so whatever that was, did

you get on did you get on there? Did you

did you do what you were supposed to do?

Speaker 5: That's what I'm Here's the thing. So the setup of

Oswald involving Carrie Thornley goes back really far. So you

have to understand that Thornley only knew Oswald for about

a five week period in March till like May of

nineteen fifty nine, and they weren't overly close, and after

the first couple of weeks they didn't talk anymore. So

after that, Thornley gets sent to Atsugi where he's in

Oswald's units m ACS one, and then he has then

he starts asking people about Oswald. He's taking pictures of

people in Oswald's units, Right, So what am I getting

from this, he's going through Oswald's footsteps. He's coming to

understand who Oswald is, Oswald's personality quirks, and he will

then end up coming back from Atsugi October of nineteen

sixty when he gets out of the Marines, and where

does he go from there? He goes to Whittier, California,

where he's then met by his former associate in the Marines,

a guy named Buddy Simcoe. Buddy Simcoe was in in

Marine intelligence the whole time when he was in the Marines,

and so Simco tries to say he didn't want to

be in intelligence, but he was told there's nowhere else

to get promoted to. Total bs story. Almost immediately after

Thornley gets out of the Marines and goes to Whittier, California,

where is where he grew up and where his parents were,

Buddy Simco comes and shows up there and they hang out. Okay,

then what do we have we have in Allegedly he

doesn't get back to Allegedly he doesn't get to New

Orleans till February of nineteen sixty one, but we have

the Bolton Ford incident in January of nineteen sixty one.

It's clearly Lawrence Howard, the pockmark Mexican who was at

the all these other places, clearly at bolton Ford. But

the I'm sorry liars are often stupid, and so carry

Thornley saying that he didn't get rid of February sixty

one when the first significant incident in the setup took

place in January of sixty one. It's just too close

for comfort. If he asked me, and based on the

height and description of the person, I'm confident it was

Kerry Thornley and Lawrence Howard at the bolton Ford. What

does that mean? That means that he got to New

Orleans way, way, way, way sooner than he told us

obviously prior to January, because he had to have he

had to be prepped on the situation in the setup.

And then he gets to bolton Ford and he uses

the name Lee Oswald when Lee Oswald is still in

the Soviet Union. Okay, Thornley was so stupid and so

many Once you come to plug in the fact that

it was Thornley who had the flyers printed. Thornley was

handling Oswald in New Orleans, you come to realize all

the places he was setting Oswald up and you're like,

oh my god, this guy was given so much leeway

to do this setup. It's crazy, and he took it

a little too far in too many places, and he

tried to be Oswald in times when later on we

would come to find out Oswald was nowhere near there. Right,

So I feel like he was a little arrogant and

stupid in his setup, and to me, this comes crashing down.

This culminates with the Tippet shooting, which is you know,

years later he tells Garrison in his confession letter because

he wrote a fifty page Affi David to Jim Garrison

that he had like you know, he had a witness

to and everything, and so he tells Jim Garrison all

this stuff. He connects himself to Marcello, He connect himself

to the CIA, Kent Courtney, Martin mccaulliffe, he connects himself

to like Clinton Bolton, all these people who are known

CIA agitators in New Orleans. He's putting in his chronology

from the time he gets there right then. He then

he puts himself with who is it was it Joyce

Tally who connected him to Martin mccauliffe. Martin mcauliff clearly

a CIA guy. Martin McAuliffe will then connect Carrie Thornley,

the guy banister under the alleged guys of he loved

his book The Idol Warriors, which was written about Oswald.

And I'm talking, we're in the Truman Show ourselves. This

is crazy, this is nonsensical. And Thornley, I think when

he wrote his fifty page affidavit to Jim Garrison, which

everybody should get off of this damn show right now

and go read. The thing is it'll blow your freaking mind.

He admits to everything. Man, he connects himself to everything,

and it's it's he was. He wasn't confessing in a

way that he wanted to get caught. He was confessing

because he knew years had gone by, it was too

late for him to get caught for anything. And he

wanted Garrison to know what really happened. And that's what

the affidavit is. And so yeah, Kerry Thornleys one of

the most important people and he's ignored by everybody. He

was never mentioned in the JFK film, he's not written

about in most people's books.

Speaker 4: It's it's unbelievable, Sony, ask you this real quick, and

not to deviate off Thorny, I just wanted to It

was a Garrison question. So I was talking to somebody

about this the other day. I think that So what

happened with Garrison dropping the case? Obviously I know he

lost the loss of suit against clay Shaw, But do

you think that there was some sort of government authority

that allowed him to become judge if he were just

could quiet down basically with all the information that he had.

Speaker 5: I don't think so. Part of the problem in answering

that statement is I am of the mindset that we

have probably less than five percent of all Garrison's documents,

less than five percent. We know that Harry Connock Senior

became the next district attorney, and he fucking burned them.

He burned Garrison's files. He destroyed them. And the files

we do have, I was told by John Barber that

he knew. John Barber knew the guy who actually broke

into Garrison's office and stole documents afterwards after the fact,

and those are the ones that got scanned and released.

But the governments, the documents that we have from Garrison

were not actually released by any government. They were released

by a private citizen who had gone and taken the

physical documents that were remaining. I don't know how true

that story is, but that's what John says. But in

order to understand I think I think Garrison was burned out.

He had been on the case for what like twelve

years or something like that. He ended up giving up

in like the before he became judge, I think. But

then after he was a judge, didn't he have his

own private practice that he continued to do some stuff.

But by seventy eight, I think he was done. And

I think seventy seven is when the thorn Leaff of

David was written to him. So here's the problem that

I have. Like that guy like ignored stuff, Like he

knew all the stuff we just said about David Ferry,

but he didn't put David Ferry in Dallas. In fact,

he was always pretty adamant David Ferry wasn't in Dallas.

But I think that's because he took the word of

the FBI and the Secret Service and he just trusted them.

At the time. I don't know why, but there was

so many things that were like right on the tip

of his tongue. It seemed that he never said like

Kerry Thornley having been the shooter a tippet. When you

go to Jim Garrison's Kerry Thornley file, the very first

page is a little memo that says Officer JD. Tippett,

and it's got a little notation on it that's on

page one. On page two of k Carrie Thornley file

is a statement from Doug Jones about Jones printing. So

oftentimes I look at how Garrison arranged his files and

I'm like, he knew, he knew. Why did he never say?

I don't know, but he knew Carrie Thornley shot Tippet

and he knew that Kerry Thornley had the flyers printed.

But I don't know why he never said that. There's

a lot of things like this in his file. It's

like the Sergeyr Kottra file and you go to his

Serge R. Kattra file, it's thirty five pages on the

Winterland and he doesn't mention Arkatcha once. You're like, what

are you talking about? Why do you have an archata

file where it's about the Winterland and you don't mention

Arkatcha once. Well, obviously he knew Arkacha went to the

Winterland and not David Ferry. So the way he structured

his files oftentimes told me he knew a lot more

than he ever said publicly. He didn't write this in

that last book that he wrote where he blamed the Israelis.

I mean, I don't understand the guy. I wish I

could go back in time and have a conversation with him.

But yeah, a lot of things he just never connected

the dots on, or maybe had too much information. Information

paralysis is a real thing. You can have so much

contradicting information you just don't know what the hell to

make of any of it, and you give up.

Speaker 3: And you also talked about the Sprague doctor or the

Sprague work.

Speaker 4: That that that's another thing that I think a lot

of people don't know about it, about Sprague and Garrison's work.

Speaker 5: Well, that's about that they were. They had They had

like a bunch of conferences, a bunch and we only

have the transcripts of one of them, so most of

that is gone. We don't will never know what the

what other stuff they knew and talked about. But that

Garrison Sprague Documents two hundred and fifty pages of dynamite.

Speaker 3: It's awesome, it's amazing.

Speaker 4: So one question I had to we talked about the

othernet and the phone Corey, is about the Zapruder film,

and that's been a hot topic of debate in the

community as of late. You know, I contend that when

I watched the next film, I get a completely different

angle of what happened.

Speaker 3: You could see the car going slower. I mean, it's

just I mean, there's there's a whole lot of it's

not fluent like the Supruter film. You brought up a

brilliant point to me the other day and I didn't

never thought about this. Is that that photo that was

right by the book depository.

Speaker 4: So you were telling me that you think that as

they were turning on to Elm, that's when the shots

started coming out?

Speaker 5: Right, Yes, okay, yes, remember some people said they heard

they thought they heard fireworks. The car turns onto Elm

and they thought they heard fireworks. Those fireworks were shots.

And I believe that first shot that was fired by

David Ferry from the corner of the picket fence struck

Kennedy in the throat. And now you have to understand, and

this happened in front of the book depository during the

missing seconds of the Zuppruter film. So the car turns

left onto this sharp turn. It's almost a forty five

degree angle. I don't know exactly what it is. Someone

will argue with me over what it is, but it's

a very steep angle. And then you got Kennedy looking

out to the right at the crowd. Imagine this. This

would put his face looking directly at that picket fence

right at that moment, right at the split ye have

probably one or not even two seconds. Probably got a

split second to get that shot off, and that's when

the people heard the firecrackers, they thought, and I think

that's when David Ferry fired that first shot. And that's

the one that struck him in the throat, because if

you look at the Altin's photo and look at him

in the Altin's photo, that Altin's photo is during that

missing couple seconds, and he's clearly already grasping at his throat.

So in the Zappruter film, when he pulls past the

the sign, the free pulls past the sign, and then

he does that that I think is one hundred percent manufactured.

I think they just they somehow manufactured that and they

fake that. What did they have, like a dad over

a decade to work on that film. They can have

done all kinds of stuff, you know, they make a

copy and then they just experiment on all these copies

until they get something together, and then they frankenstein something together.

Speaker 4: So so when you argue that and both I want

to ask both of you guys, is the Altins photo

has to be probably one of the most important photos

in this whole case, right, because that literally proves that

the Suppruter film was altered. I mean, you just mentioned

it perfectly, Corey. I mean, if they're going by the

book depository and he's already grabbing his through that right

there to bomps the whole Zuppruter film as we see it.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's like an The Zaprunter film is

like an art project. Like I genuinely think they had

like a decade to work on that stuff, you know,

I mean, I guess so within the first couple of days,

storyboards were made and shown to Kennedy, but we never

saw those. We never saw those till later, and then

the churches we saw them. John mccoone, right, Yeah, data yeah,

the Dino Brugioni stuff. Well, the thing about the Dejo

Dino Brugioni. Okay, so let me get preface this. Diner

Bergioni is a scumbag. In the nineteen seventies, he was

one of two CIA photo analysts who faked a dozen

pictures of the concentration camp Auschwitz. He literally faked photographs

of Auschwitz. And then when the photographs got debunked, the

CIA disabout all knowledge of that project. They said, oh,

it was an independent project down by diner Bergioni on

his own. They fucking threw him under the bus. So

he's not an honest actor. But on his Kennedy stuff,

But when he talked to Doug Horn, everybody should watch

the long, like six hour interview he did with Doug Horn,

because he talks basically about how he got the film

on Saturday, which is not when the CIA is not

supposed to have gotten it till Sunday. But he was

there bright and early Saturday morning. He worked on it

all day till late in the night. And none of

the stuff that he did, none of the photo boards

or any of the work that he did, did he

ever see again, not in any of the the evidence

not in the Zupruter film that was put for to

the public. He's like, it was a different film and

he's like, I don't even know what this thing is.

So that's some of the most damning testimony against the

Zapruter film.

Speaker 4: Wow, man, Yeah, I recommend that people. Okay, I'm gonna

put post the auction's photo. Thank you again for mentioning

the name of the photo. I didn't remember it, but yeah,

I'm gonna play.

Speaker 5: And that's probably why they cut those couple of seconds. Well, look,

because that's probably the first time he grabs his throat

and Zapruter would have seen that in the film. That's

probably the first time he does this, and that's why

they cut it, because then that would have that would

have debunked the whole story came.

Speaker 6: I was gonna say, are we able to to put

it up?

Speaker 3: I don't have it, Corey, do you have it by chance?

Speaker 5: Oh?

Speaker 6: If possible, I'll just say, you know, I would love

to know. By the way, uh, what Zapruter's employer was

before he came to Dallas. He was supposedly in the

New York garden industry, which, by the way, is rife

with organized crime and US work and everything like that.

His sons worked in Bobby Kennedy's Justice department, by the way,

as a lawyer. I do hope he knew that. And he, Uh,

there's convenient photos of him with his camera prior to

eleven twenty two, Like he's kind of shown it off.

So it's a snuff film. I mean it was. It's

one of the most Uh it's it's it's better than

any war photography has has gotten under you know, there's

the for an amateur photographer not to not to cave

at all, not to lose any poise. And his shot

is incredible, and he noticed, by the way, I was

the last thing he doesn't keep filming. Why you have

a horde of motorcads coming, you have the vice president coming,

you have the Senator coming, you have the mayor coming. Nope, Nope,

that's it, like the motorcades fast and undone.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 4: You know, I think about the technology back then, right,

I mean, obviously the government they had a lot more

advanced stuff at that time for that era. But you know,

you look at like Hollywood and how back back in

those days they were able to you know, when they

were doing their cuts of their films, they would, you know,

manually do their cuts.

Speaker 3: So I agree with Corey on this one hundred percent.

They like totally remixed it up. It's almost as if.

Speaker 4: There was like a pre stage photoshop of what they

did of the Suppruter.

Speaker 3: Film, in my opinion, So.

Speaker 4: Because you have many numerous people that say, well, that's

not what I remember what happened in d Lea Placid

that day at all, there you go, there's Altron's film

right there, thank you for sure.

Speaker 3: Look at them.

Speaker 5: So look at that. So Connolly has already turned to

the right, right, But we see that in ze Pruter

later on. But here he's already turned to the right.

And then Kennedy look at his hand. His hand is

up like he's clutching something already, like he's tense, he's

really tense and he's clutching. But John Connelly's John Connelly

should be facing forward, shouldn't he. We don't see him

do that until in Zappruiter, until he's already passed the

sign and he's already not wearing the hat. So this

whole thing is a fugazy. This whole thing is at

this point.

Speaker 4: This has to be the most important photo that I mean,

this is disproves the Suppruter film literally is is bogus.

Speaker 6: Yeah, well wait a second, So where where are they?

Speaker 5: They look like they're just passed the book depository. But

this is we wouldn't see them because they should be

behind the sign at this point or not even to

the sign yet. But yeah, we don't see this scene

play out until.

Speaker 6: After because how do you know that?

Speaker 5: Well, when you watch this film, you can see John

Connelly turn around in it. He's not already turned. He

turns around.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it almost looks like he's like sitting like one

of those reverse seats where he's like facing the.

Speaker 5: Back right right, right, But look he's looking looking at

the reaction.

Speaker 3: Look, yeah, he is looking sidon.

Speaker 4: So when you watch the film again, she starts doing

all that the you know, maneuvering to the side after

they passed the Stemens Freeway sign, right, And this is

not they haven't hit the Stemens Freeway yet here I mean,

in my opinion, I mean, it looks like they're look

how close they are to the book depository.

Speaker 5: Right, And this would this would correspond with the missing

seconds and the fact that ferry fired from the picket

fence at that time, and the angle of the car

would be sufficient to hit Kennedy in the throat without

having to go through the windshield.

Speaker 3: Yeah, people, I don't think people understand how important this

photo is. I mean, you'll get the veterinary researcher and

sel say, well, we knew all about it.

Speaker 4: But again my problem is with people have this information

that don't you this as a topic for debate. Why

the hell don't you talk about it?

Speaker 5: But something else to point out. In the full size

Altins photo, it's still edited, it's still cropped. There are

people they've cut out. There's a picture of I've seen

a version of the Altins photo where there's a woman

standing on the side of Elm and she's filming and

she's wearing all black. But she's cut out of most

of the pictures of the of the Altins photo. So

I don't know why they did that, but they did

it for sure. So all of these photos have been

tampered with man all of them. The Knicks film, the

Pruder film, all of them, the Robert Hughes film, They're

all tampered with. They had to cover up the evidence

because the evidence was everywhere in daily Plaza.

Speaker 3: Yeah, what was that lady Betsy or Patsy? Uh, what's

her last name?

Speaker 4: But anyway, she's she said that she literally filmed the

shooter from the knoll, and then when you actually see

the footage, you can't see anything else.

Speaker 5: I know exactly what you're talking about, the past.

Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So she.

Speaker 5: That film is all cut up, and when you watch it,

it's not continuous. It jumps. It jumps a bunch of times. Yeah,

because they cut everything out of it.

Speaker 3: Well, and also doesn't it really bother you that the

whole thing is about shadows. That's all you see is shadows, Right,

So she makes the claim when she was filming that

it was clear as day that she caught the shooter

behind the knoll. And and you know, that's another fascinating

one too. But I mean, you're right. I believe probably

every one of them was altered. It's it's just crazy.

So well, James and Corey, let's go ahead.

Speaker 4: Hey, we're gonna go ahead and get into our final segment,

which is our final Takes.

Speaker 3: I want to do a part two with you guys,

because I feel like.

Speaker 4: We usually our shows range around an hour and a

half to two hours, and I do appreciate both your

guys's time.

Speaker 3: This has been a wonderful episode. So my final take

is is that the JFK research.

Speaker 4: Community, basically we need to make sure that we keep

an open mind and make you know, people that have

the wisdom. We need to make sure that we we

approach everybody with respect, because I see a lot of

people attacking somebody for their beliefs and stuff like that,

and I think that's wrong. I mean, you don't black

you don't blackball somebody just because they believe in something

and then they've been studying this thing. You should always

keep an open mind and respect the people that are

in the community, because you know, when we're toxic to

people like I mean, my friend Corey here, people.

Speaker 3: Are toxic to him. I mean, there's a reason why

he's defensive at times, and so I got to give

him a lot of credit for using the restraint that

he does. And then you know, I mean that's the problem.

We need to make sure that we are all literally

we're on the same side. We want to solve this

this this you know, this case. We love Kennedy. We

have to make sure that we're working together, and so

if we have different theology, so be it. But the

thing is respect one another. And I know that's a

kumba ya take of mind, but I just wanted to

say that, and I want to thank you both so

much for being on our show. So whoever wants to

take the next uh in the next final rap, please do.

Speaker 6: Well. There was a cover up, and the whole point

of the whole point of the depository was that, you know,

the shots had to be in front of the depository

from that window, from that rifle by that man, and

everything had a point to that, and so you had

to cover up anything that that said. Otherwise there was

a lot of moving parts, but things got mangled, things

got mixed, and there were a lot of busy people

that weekend. But how how busy can you be? And

how can you be a barring by location which is

not out of the realm of possibility for David Ferry,

you know, how can you do that without being multiple people?

So uh, yeah, it's it's uh, that's kind of where

we're at. Just just chip it away at that.

Speaker 5: And so let me just comment on Oswald in regardless

as far as that goes Oswald while all these other

people were and they were doing stuff with the assassination,

and there was a lot of moving parts. Oswald's not

part of any of it at all. Zero, Like he

is bored. He's sitting at home. He's working bs jobs

or he has front jobs, and he's still sitting at home.

But he doesn't know nothing about nothing at all. Maybe

he's given a little assignment here and there, like hand

out these flyers on the street corner, so you can

think you're doing something. But I get the feeling that

he wasn't doing anything. They were kipping him at arm's length,

making sure he was never in any of the places

they were. That's why all the sidings of Oswald at

five forty four Camp Street and whatnot. Nope, it was

Kerrie Thornley, Sorry to bust your bubble. They're not going

to have him doing things. And I think the reason

he did the the only stuff that he did was

stuff that they needed for him to do to help

perpetuate the legend of Oswald the communists, like handing out

the flyers, which then got him on WDSU, which was

a whole setup which I believe came straight from Joanitas

Joeannitas to Gauday to Jesse Corr to on corpor end,

there's your chain of events, all CIA that got Oswald

on TV boom. Right, So the whole thing was a

setup from the highest level, right, JM. Wave. You can

consider that the highest level of CIA at this point.

And so Oswald didn't do nothing except what he was told,

and most of the time he was told nothing. That's

why I think he was very frustrated. And people knew

him said he was very frustrated and had a lot

of angst, not because he wanted to be some superhero,

but because he was sitting around doing nothing when he

thought he was being a spy for his country. That's

what I think. So Oswald is the key to like,

He's not the key to the Kennedy assassination, but he's

the key to like everything else. For me, he's fascinating

the story of Oswald and how the Naval Intelligence worked

with CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency to craft this This

person that we know is Oswald. That's the real story

of all this, what the depths of our government are

willing to do, and the Kennedy assassination was really just

an afterthought in the scheme of their large scale plans.

Speaker 3: So well, you can pick up Corey's book on Amazon.

Speaker 4: It's called The Warning from History Volume one, and also

Lee Harvey Oswald in Black and White volume one, And

I do believe you already have the second edition out

on is it on The Warning from History?

Speaker 6: Yeah?

Speaker 5: So yeah, so the original Warning from History is going away,

and so the new one is updated and it's a

two volume set because it's like seven hundred and fifty

pages or something like that, and so yeah, there it is.

That's the new volume. Can you flip through and show

them some of the pictures and documents how they're in there?

But this is what I did, newspaper articles, documents, it's everything. Yeah,

it tells the whole. It tells the story. The first

six chapters are all the players, and the second volume,

which will be out within two weeks, will be how

the assassination went down, what happened in the book Depository,

how everybody escaped from Daily Plaza, the three Tramps, the

tip of shooting in the Winterland, and that's that's the

that's the real meat and potatoes there.

Speaker 3: See amazing, And I got my backdrop over here as well,

so I highly recommend the book, and James uh your

your book The Fraud of Thrain that's out available on

Amazon as well. Am I correct, gotcha?

Speaker 6: So you think along with the Mad Bishops, which is

an exploration into all the whole foe chivalric, whole fake degrees,

all the old Catholic Church stuff that was kind of

my way into it originally.

Speaker 3: Well, gentlemen, this has been an honor.

Speaker 4: I would like to invite you guys on for a

second episode of this because I believe that we need

to really.

Speaker 3: Cover a lot more ground.

Speaker 4: I know an hour and a half does not do it,

do justice, So I'd love to do a part too,

if you guys would be able.

Speaker 3: To here in the future.

Speaker 5: Sure, anytime.

Speaker 3: Awesome. Thank you both so much. I'll put their handles

at the bottom there you can also, and I'll put

the links to their books. Like I tell our audience

every week, the truth is out there. We'll see you

next episode. Thank you,