Cory Hughes and James Day - Chalona in Context
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Speaker 1: I once again joined by Corey hughes Hi. Corey, Hello Corey.
If I'm a new researcher to the JFK community, I
could easily get bogged down by the sheer amount of information, Uh,
the age of the case, all sorts of things, all
sorts of factors. But if I wanted to start digging
in documents, and you pride yourself on primarily being a
document reader in terms of the research, where would where
would someone start? I mean, could I go just to
the National Archives?
Speaker 2: No, I don't know that. I want to go to
the National Archives. So so I'm assuming this person getting
started in research knows the very basics, like they've seen
the JFK film. And I always recommend two things. Watch
the JFK film and then watch the what was that
Nigel Turner series?
Speaker 1: Kil Kennedy.
Speaker 2: There you go, And I always recommend that because you'll
get a splash of everything. You get like the official
conspiracy theory. You get the official story, the official conspiracy theory,
and then you get a whole bunch of whack job
stuff that's like totally out of left field, and then
you get some stuff that's like super duper important that
no one ever follows up on. So you get a
whole smattering of different insight into different aspects of the case.
And I think that's really where people should start, is
to kind of understand the different parameters they're dealing with.
And so but from there, you know, what did I do?
I think the first thing I did was I went
to the FBI collection. It's a collection of two thousand
page files. And then when you start to dig into that,
you realize that it's a it's assembled in such a
manner that like will drive you out of your mind
because like they'll have some important documents and then some junk,
and then they'll have like a thousand pages of letters
that were written into the FBI with questions, various tips,
you know, stuff like that. But if you can use
like Google or AI to get to like the relevant
sections of those FBI files, that's all good original document
stuff because you see, from there, the Warren Commission will
collect everything and slap a Warren Commission exhibit number on it. Right,
go back before that to the original documents, because you'll
find the Warren Commission Pitch Harry picked stuff and so.
But yeah, that and then you have the Garrison files
which are very straightforward. There's a lot missing. Like I've
said before, I think we have less than five percent,
less than five percent. You got to think Attorney's office
with a crew of what do they have a dozen
people working on Kennedy for a number of years, Let's
say five years, even though it was probably longer than that.
How many pages do you think they generated on a
daily basis? Hundreds of pages a day? Right? And what
do we got? We got a couple thousand pages of documents.
You know, it's a joke. It's a joke. We have
next to nothing when you look at how much the
office should have been producing compared to what we have.
And then you come across things like we know, for
a fact, Emilio Santana was arrested and interrogated by Garrison's
team for five days. That has got to be a
two thousand page document right there. From there, all the
investigative stuff leading up to his arrest, the interview itself,
and then the analysis afterwards that everybody who listened to
him talk had to write a report. You're talking thousands
of pages just on that one incident. We don't have that.
We have nothing. Haul Howard and Seymour. We got nothing
on those guys in nothing. We have no files. I
think it's a Lauren Hall file, but that guy ran
his mouth so much it's kind of hard to avoid
getting at least one file, right. But he doesn't have
a William Seymour file or a Lawrence Howard file. I
don't know what to tell you. You know, the most
important stuff. He doesn't have the roch Charemie stuff he
has is eh, it's okay. You know, somewhere in the
Roe Charmi file they name by name the seaman who
comes into the port at Galveston, But is it in
anywhere in any of the files. No, that one page
happened to be plucked, you know. So there you have
to come to understand. And there's there's no way for
me to save anybody any time, because when I look
back at like the directions I went, I went down
a lot of weird mob paths in my first six months,
you know, I went down a lot of the the
official conspiracy theory stuff that was junk. I ended up
getting lost in these rabbit holes that went nowhere. And
there's a lot of dead ends right, like come across
the Larry floor, stuff. You know, the Larry Floor stuff
is as shady as it comes. I actually went and
mapped out Larry Floor's path from what he told people
where he walked, you know, down into Daily Plaza, from
the cafe into the deal text to go use the phone,
and then they arrest them. And in the video the
guy is falling down drunk. So was he falling down
drunk when he made his mile and a half walk
from the cafe into Daily Plaza to the del Text building. No,
that guy slammed a bunch of alcohol because he got caught,
He was about to get caught, and he got drunk.
And that was something I picked up when I realized
how many people were freshly drunk in Daily Plaza who
got arrested that day. That's a technique. That was a technique,
I swear to God. And so there's all kinds of
weird stuff surrounding Larry Floor and his whole again needed
to use the phone on the third floor the Daltex
building story, it doesn't make any sense. There's more to it.
We don't know what that is, right, And so there's
a lot of things like that. You come across where
you're like, oh, I know this something there, and I
spent an inordinate amount of time on certain avenues that
were complete like it went nowhere, or maybe they didn't
go nowhere, and I just didn't know how to get
past the obstacles I was finding. Right, So now I'm
looking to revisit a lot of the stuff I did
in my first you know, first six months or a year,
to see if there's any validity to any of this stuff,
because I had some wild theories the first six months,
you know.
Speaker 1: So now if I'm just still this researcher and I
come across the Mary Farrell Foundation, I have to be,
you know, kind of just ready to I have to
be super excited by what's in the on this website,
this renowned research site, right, Corey.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing about Mary Farrell is you'll find some
good stuff in there, But I don't know. So the
best collection in the world, I think is I would
say is John Armstrong's, but that's just a little biased.
The Herald Weisberg collection is equally as vast. I mean,
it's like a hall. It's like a hall of mirrors.
The Wiseburg collection is not organized very well, and so
it's like a hall of mirrors when you walk down
and you're like, where the hell am I? But the
John Armstrong files, on the other hand, are like he
didn't put them together the I think the college did
after he died and uploaded everything. And so they just
took his bundles of files as they were uploaded him
with the closest title they could come up with, and
it's priceless, and I find stuff in there. There's like
that's where I study all the Harvey and Lee stuff
because he's got the best period the best documents there are.
But he really did a lot of work outside of
the Harvey and Lease stuff on the assassination itself, and
like there are documents that come up in his collection,
then I'll go look for at Mary Ferrell and it
won't be there, you know, So like it's a it's
a good thing that it's a good tool to have.
But all those documents you should be able to find elsewhere,
but finding how you know how to go about finding
them can be can be very difficult. So it I
don't want people to spend any money at first, and
you know, like that's an advanced tool for later on
when you're just looking for like find detail stuff.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, going off of what you
just said, can is there can there be the danger
of being a of wasting one's time, even if there
one's not exactly a researcher, if one enjoys as much
you can't enjoy this story of the assassination. Can there
be the danger of wasting time on podcasts, interviews, the
audio video aspect of presenting information your people.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing you just need to watch out.
The danger and biggest danger in that is, like if
you're just starting out and you're getting a grip on
what's going on, you come to understand the basics that
Oswald is getting set up one way or another. The
danger you might run into is allowing other people to
influence the direction of your research. I didn't really get
into watching any video, you know, honestly, I don't remember
watching anything for years. For years. I mean, I had, like,
like I said, the JFK movie and the Men who
Killed Kennedy, and I think that was about it. And
I didn't really go and dig into documents because part
of my frustration in the first place was that it's
been sixty years nobody solved this goddamn thing. What's your problem,
you know. So I wasn't looking for experts who knew shit,
because nobody knew shit. I'm like, fuck, you know. And
that's the thing I need to emphasize that I need
to emphasize to everybody. Okay, no one who's ever written
a goddamn book on Kennedy is all the goddamn thing
in the history of Kennedy, except for there's little nuggets
that will pop up, like Josiah Thompson had some great work,
and he uncovered some work on the magic bullet, and
there's little details that will pop up that get lost
in the shuffle. But nobody's out there solving nothing, not
the best of the best, Not James de Eugenio, not
James Douglas, none of these people. I'm really frustrated with
James Douglas's book because it's for an advanced researcher. It's
an unnecessary exploration. I mean, for people who want to
understand the timing and the era and who don't know nothing,
is a fantastic book, But if you already understand the era,
just like I haven't. I'm like two hundred pages into
it and I haven't read anything in it that wasn't
like baseline, you know, Kennedy and sixties one oh one.
Speaker 1: He seems to stress more emotion and sentiment about the time,
about the idea of peace. And I'm wondering, what is
your assessment of the Kennedy part.
Speaker 2: Well, let's start with the fact that he stole the election.
That's number one that I think can never be discussed enough.
The guy never should have been there in the first
place to get killed. How would things have been under Nixon?
Hard to say, hard to say in hindsight, looking back
from today, I would say, Jesus Christ, yes, we'll get
Nixon in there, you know, but it's it's really hard.
He just had too much opposition for various reasons. And
I don't know, he's hailed as this great guy because
he was killed. But if he hadn't have been killed
and he just went on as another another president, how
would we feel about him today? Would he have been
considered this you know, powerhouse, transitional whatever? And so for me,
I just look at all the people he pissed off
and the change that he was going to incur the biggest,
Like it's it's impossible to ignore the single biggest changes
he would have made would have been the relationship with Israel,
and he got killed for it, I mean, and and
so we'll never really know what could have been otherwise,
you know what I mean. I don't look it's funny
because I don't really look at him as a He's
like the hollow center of the wheel, you know, of
the turning wheel. He's like a non and he's almost
a non entity to me in regards to the assassination.
He's the guy that nothing much really has to be
said about. And so I don't really I've never really
put a lot of time into Kennedy as as a man,
just because I didn't really find it necessary to figure
to understand the assassination. I am stood enough to know
why you got killed, you know.
Speaker 3: So you make a point that you want people to
understand that the motive from the conspirators wasn't top down hierarchical.
Speaker 1: Everyone's following the orders the template that from the masterminds.
In other words, the story of Israel very likely a motive,
but not for everybody.
Speaker 2: For the people at the top, it was I think
everything is, including the dullest and the Angletons and the
American Zionists, which those guys were as opportunistic as it got.
So I can't help but think that they thought that
creating this new nation would be like they're with their cronies,
would be like some kind of shell company that they
could do whatever they wanted, like they weren't going to
be restricted by American law or the Constitution or any
of that stuff. So I always felt like they were
pushing this New World Order stuff, and the New World
Order was going to be headquartered in Israel. And that's
kind of why I feel like there were so many
early American Zionists. But then again, you've got the Secret
Society influence. I mean, those guys were members of like
they were Freemasons, and they were members of World Brotherhood
and P two and a whole bunch of weird European
you know, European stuff. And all the Secret Society stuff
is Jewish. I'm sorry, it just is. All of it
has Jewish origins. The very nature of the secretness of it,
you know, like John Kennedy said, like that should be
repulsive to the average person. But what have we seen
time and time again all of these organizations seem to
stem from the same kabalistic, Messianic teachings with which I
don't understand to this day. I get it, but I
don't get it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Whereas someone like a Howard or a Whole or a Seymour,
they're not too worried about probably that.
Speaker 2: No, they're like, screw those communists, right, you know that
was it? That was how simple it was, you know,
but you need they were like the blunt force tool
of of their handlers, you know what I mean, and
the people who controlled them and gave them orders and
paid their salaries, you know. And that's another thing, like
the whole job infrastructure thing. You know, Seymour at Beach Welding.
That guy even work for Beach Welding. The guy was
in Dallas. What are you talking about? You know, so
he was getting This is how they funnel monitor these people,
you know, like through these jobs. That the job network system,
I think is something that like the Riley Coffee and
the Allied Coffee and all these damned coffee I don't
know what it is with coffee and spokes, but there's
a there's a bunch of coffee companies pop up in
this story. You know that employed multiple Oswald's, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: So let's get to the topic for today, which is
Chilona in context, and I'll link the video folks for
the with the interview with Frank Chelona from below. And
my conclusion that I'm seeing from the from these first
few days of the video being out is that folks
are still trying to maybe understand Frank Chiluna's impact to
the case. So I'm actually gonna start off. I'm gonna
have Corey maybe tell us about why Chilona is so
important if you can. And I'll preface it by a
comment I got from Larry Wheels seven six to two.
He says, Ferry left for Houston. I'm assuming he's studying
to the original story, which is New Orleans Ferry left
for Houston to see if he was needed as a
getaway pilot. They probably had multiple CIA planes on coal.
The Ferry drove back to Hammond to lay low and
be seen for his alibi.
Speaker 2: Corel, that's ridiculous. There's zero evidence to that would substantiate
any of those notions, period. And we also know that
he never went to Houston, and that's the whole point.
He never went to Houston, and that's the entire point.
He was not in Houston because he was in Hammond,
and he was in Hammond because he drove there from Dallas.
Because he was in Dallas. He wasn't in New Orleans.
And then people are like, well, he was seen in court,
shut up with you, or he was seen in court stuff. Okay,
he was seen in court by a bunch of mobsters.
There you go. His alibi is bunk. It's hearsay. There
is no He didn't go to the courthouse and sign
into a book that we have evidence of. He didn't
go there and get logged in anywhere. Okay, he didn't
get in there and sit next to Carlos Marcello in
the trial area. He would have been sitting in the
in the section open to the general public. No witnesses
outside the mob and Regis Kennedy say anything about him
being there. Alice Gidros will then put him at the office.
So we have conflicting information. Was he in court with
Marcelo or was he at the g ray Gill's office
at twelve fifteen? Which was it? Nobody's ever clarified that, Okay,
So we have conflicting information there. Then we have the
story about him going to Marcello's party at like six
o'clock and making phone calls, calling the skating ring, calling
Melvin Coffee's house, and they had to get busy doing
stuff with Melvin Coffee, call in the house and allegedly
going to his house because Melvin Coffee didn't go on
this damn trip. It was lighton Martin's, the fact that
Layton Martin's and Alvin bobu for photograph often Daily Plaza.
It's just nailing the coffin for David Ferry being there.
So anybody who was like, no, he went to Houston
is SIA. This is nonsense. You're just making this up.
It doesn't exist anywhere in any of the literature. So
I'm really tired of people. This is what I do,
like every day Kennedy is what I do, And then
I get weekend Warrior armchair warriors coming at me like
they know better than I do. You don't. I'm sorry,
you just don't.
Speaker 1: What do we know about Fairi's time in Fort Worth?
Speaker 2: Well, we know from Jack Martin he was there two
days before the assassination, two days now, two days before
these outs that would have been the twentieth. Now, we
don't have any other documents or anything pertaining to Fairy
or his crew in the weeks leading up to the assassination.
What were they doing in November. We don't have anything
on that. Really, there's no specific timelines that would lock
Faery into anything in the weeks leading up to the assassination,
so it's kind of wide open there. Most of the
guys had been there already. Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 1: I was just saying, I think there were some court
planning weekends out in the Marcello farm that he supposedly
spent a few weekends doing.
Speaker 2: Was it in October that he went to Guatemala?
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it was at the end of October.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So that's the closest we got with David
Ferry and being able to put him anywhere concretely, because
then he's not interviewed and asked about that stuff. They'll
after the assassination. So yeah, we have weeks and weeks
where we don't know anything. You know, we've got we
can lock him in place. In September. September, we know
exactly where he was. He didn't go anywhere in September, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, September, he was still fighting. He still thought he
could win his battle with Eastern.
Speaker 2: I think that's crazy. I mean, only two months before.
That's crazy. Like his the Eastern Airline stuff was going
on for a long time. It dragged on that whole year.
I don't know. I wonder why he had to I
wonder why he was so adamant about trying to save
that job. And it was obvious that he didn't have
any kind of CIA pull that would keep, that could
get him. You know, he got out of a lot
of stuff. Have you seen the list of charges in
New Orleans that he had that he got out of everything,
All of those things with El share Me or was
it al share Me round Landry, I think it was both.
And the Eric Cruchet stuff, all that stuff with him
molested those kids. He had like ten charges proof all
of them just seemed to disappear. And so it's kind
of funny because in the JFK movie they make it
seem like Garrison shouldn't really know who Ferry is except
for in passing when they meet in the office, right,
he's like, you remember me, missed the Garrison. I met
you on the No Garret and spent a year trying
to prosecute him for molesting kids. So that whole meeting.
The way they framed it like that like he barely
knew him was ridiculous. He knew exactly who he was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, going, you know, it's almost he's almost friendly with Ferry.
Speaker 2: Well what he kind of has to be because when
you're doing like interrogation techniques, he kind of got to
be you know.
Speaker 1: So, and Thomas Beckham has a is it a package
that he is? This is this to me is played
right into Fairy's role with the assassination, right.
Speaker 2: He right, So the Thomas Beckham stuff to me, you
got to understand, like people will just read his statements
and just dismiss him, but they don't see how his
statements plug into other things, right, Like he's given up.
So Thomas Beckham is like a CIA mafia hangaround courier,
I would say, who is like working with He's kind
of brought into this life by a guy named Roswell
Thompson who was a senator or a state representative I
guess at some point in Louisiana. But Roswell Thompson this
obviously he's connected to the mafia. Also, Roswell Thompson gets
him involved in like the stuff with Guy Banister, and
then he meets fred Lee Chrisman and fred Lee Christman
after the assassination stuff, Beckham calls Chris okay, So Fredlely
Chrisman is the guy. Okay, So most people try to
dismiss him, but he's the guy that when clay Shaw
got arrested, the first call clay Shaw made was to
Fredley Christman. That means Chrismin is a goddamn big shot period.
If clay Shaw is calling him to get me out
of trouble, then you can guarantee Chrismin is a CIA employee.
He's a political operative. When you go through his history,
he had connections to politicians and weird stuff and and
the and even like the the UFO movement. So but
man Morey island. So Beckham calls this guy, and after
the assassination he'll end up going to Washington State and
working with him in another one of these like diploma
mills with a guy named Bob Lavender. And so that
all is up in Washington State. But Beckham is unquestionably
connected to the CIA and the mafia. His associations make
it pretty obvious. It seems as though he is a
courier because at some point they have a meeting at
where was the meeting at? Was it at g ra Gills?
I forget? But they have a meeting and Vincent Marcello
is there, g Ray Gill is there, A bunch of
other people are there. The woman who he names is
Anna Burglass is there, and we recently, thanks to Sean Cea,
identified Anna Burglass and turns out she's got like a
brother who is like a senator from California or something
like a big shot in United States politics. So that
was like blockbuster that we still need to explore that
whole avenue. But this is obviously a bunch of people
getting together discussing the assassination because they give Beckham a
package which he's supposed to bring to mister Howard at
the executive in Dallas. Okay, how many mister Howard's do
we have in the story who are everywhere in the story,
who are clearly in the story fun Frien's Howard? And
will he be in Dallas? Yes, he would be in Dallas.
And would he be staying at a hotel? Probably probably
because his real home was in Los Angeles. So they're
bouncing around it between different places in Dallas. For a
couple of months that they're there the mid September, all
the way through the assassination. Those guys are there, regardless
of what the fuck they say. So we have all
these little pieces that fit together. He goes to mister Howard,
he gives them the package. He opens it up and
he's pissed. He's like, this can't be all there is.
I guess there was one map in it and it
had like two hundred dollars and that was it. And
so he drives down the road and he pulls over again,
angry and he's like Jesus, He's like, what the hell
is this? This isn't enough. And he's like, that's all
they gave me. And so that's Thomas Beckham. And Thomas
Beckham was that hang see, And he's another person who's
around this whole time in New Orleans who's never mentioned
in like the JFK film or any of the documentary
stuff on the Kennedy assassination. He's hanging around with Jack
Martin and that kind of click right with the fake
diploma people and the fake churches. So that's right. He
becomes a preacher and he goes by Mark Evans and
he's like a singer.
Speaker 1: Singer, and he tours the country.
Speaker 2: These people are so weird. They're so weird.
Speaker 1: But you definitely think that that was the assassination related
material coming from New Orleans. From Beckham to Lawrence Howard.
Speaker 2: Sent on, this is another thing. You got the idiots
like Posner who are like, well, somebody would have talked.
I have been all this time. He talked. People talked,
people talked, and when they talk, you just don't want
to hear it, you know. That's another criticism I have
of especially the I can't even believe there's any loan
gunman nutters out there anymore.
Speaker 1: In the days after the assassination, fairies desk I think
is getting cleared out of Gil's office, and there's a
woman who sees apparently diagrams of Daley Plaza blueprints or
something like that on the desk, and I think it
might be a service. Secretary says, you're talking.
Speaker 2: You're talking about Clara Flornoy Gay and her interaction with
Alice Guidro. So she's she's a little shadier herself. We
don't really know much about her background. I think she
was married to a mobster or something along those lines,
but she's dealing with gil, which is the red flag
in the first place. But she goes in there and
there Elice g DROs is cleaning out Fairi's desk. And
as she's cleaning out Fairy's desk, missus Gay sees that
there's this piece of paper that has a diagram on it,
and it looks like there are streets and buildings on
this diagram. And one of the streets was called Elm
and there was a square and which is probably a building,
and inside the square it said VIP. And she goes,
what is this. I'm gonna take this to the FBI,
And so she takes it and g DROs grabs it
out of her hand and crumples it up and throws
it in the trash. So she then takes it back
out of the trash and Gidros once again grabs it
out of her hand and throws in the trash. And
that's the last we hear of that encounter. But that
is just another that's just another little thing, you know.
It's just another piece of evidence to add to the
case that would be brought up in a court of law.
One of the documents I'm looking for in this other
David Ferry file that I have and I'm going to
get back to on my podcast probably next week. There
is one document from the FBI where they interviewed some
kid who was connected to the CAAP and a bunch
of them went to a gas station. It was a
caravan of two or three cars of them, and they
stopped at a gas station and for some reason, somebody
was talking to the guy who worked there and they
were talking about Kennedy and the conversation was had that, oh,
if Kennedy comes to town, we got a guy named
Dave with a rifle who's going to take care of him.
That's a real document in one of the It's like, whoa,
that's just is that slam dunk? Is it circumstantial? I
don't even care. It's it's it's a straw, and eventually
the straw will break the camel's back, you know what
I mean. It's one little piece that adds to the
bigger picture of who these who this guy is. Obviously
there was TALKI hated Kennedy because other people are talking
about it, and obviously he knew rifles because people were
talking about it, and he was trained an anti Castro Cuban.
So there's your rifle, you know, gap filler. Well, all
the evidence.
Speaker 1: About that's not good enough, because Fairy didn't shoot Bro.
Speaker 2: Every single thing I put together on Fairy is more
than enough to present to a state attorney and more
than enough for them to bring a criminal case Perry.
Even that, especially that picture in Daily Plaza, all the pictures,
especially the two boys in Daily Plaza.
Speaker 1: So how were you able to determine those boys were
who you say they are?
Speaker 2: Because I went through every picture in Daily Plaza for
months on end like a madman, and then one day
I just looked and I was like, holy shit, that's them.
And then I went through all the facial recognition stuff.
It all came up positive. It was them. It was them.
It was clear and obvious they were there. And so
here's something that bothers me that I haven't really been
able to figure out, and that's the person who got
into the cab that drove that got dropped off near
the boarding house. Okay, that person when you read the
description from William Whaley, that person had on like what
they thought was like a uniform with like a button
up shirt kind of thing, and the shirt had a
silver stripe on it, and then over that they had
another like what they thought was like a uniform type jacket,
you know what I mean, like a matching uniform type jacket.
And then over that matching uniform jacket was a thick,
heavier kind of flannel type coat. All right, So it
eliminates Oswald and Oswald and the Oswald's a non issue. Okay, So,
but that's definitely not Oswald. That description matches the description
of Alvin bo Boof in Daley Plaza of the picture
that I have. Here's another here's an issue that I
have though. William Whaley described this person as having like
chalk on their coat. Now we know that the people
who had chalk on their shirts, like Bonnie Ray Williams,
was because they were laying floor in the fifth and
sixth floors on the book depository. So there's a bunch
of guys who have chalk on their shirts, and you
can even see it in some of the photographs as
you can see the chalk on their shirts. This person
who matches a description of bo Boof and Daley Plaza
also had chalk on the shirt. Now you can see
why I have a problem with this. What's the why
would why would if that's bo Boof, why would he
have any chalk on his sho shirt? Why would he
be inside the book depository?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: No, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.
So that's a loose end that one day. I'll probably
never get that one answered, But I would very much
like to. Uh, finding the identity of the person who
took the cab with William Whaley is like of utmost importance,
absolute utmost importance. So but then again, we have those
two guys in Dally Plaza. We got Layton Martin's and
Alvin Boboof and Daily Plaza, and David Ferry will end
up leaving in the Great Plymouth by himself. So how
did those guys get to wherever they were going? Were
they staying over at the Adolphice in walking distance? Maybe?
You know, I don't know. I really don't know what
happened to those two guys?
Speaker 1: Right? And when did they When did they arrive in Dallas?
Fairy must have gone back to New Orleans after his
Fort Worth stop?
Speaker 2: Well, I think they I think that Ferry flew in.
I think Ferry flew into Fort Worth or Dallas wherever
he flew in And the reason I say that is
because we have an incident on the day of the
assassination involving a plane. Do you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: The Redbird Airport issue?
Speaker 2: Or is just no, no, that's something else.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: So, on the day of the assassination, Jack Ruby's buddy,
Joe Cody, who was also an amateur pilot, he will
fly a plane from New Orleans to Shreveport, I believe,
or from Dallas to Shreveport. Okay, he'll fly a plane
from Dallas to Shreveport that day and he'll get into
like a little small Fender Bender plane, crash like he's rolling.
He's landed in Shreveport and he's like and there and
then he bumps into somebody. Right. He was one of
Jack Ruby's better friends in Dallas. He worked for the
Dallas Police Department. And he just flew a plane back
to Shreveport on the day of the assassination. And then
David Ferry will drive out in a Ford Falcon station
wagon because he doesn't have his Mercury comment because Arkatcha
has the Mercury comet. So we have to figure out
where the Ford Falcon station wagon came from. If you
ask me, I believe it. I'm just guessing, but I
think Llewellyn hooked him up with it as a rental
because Llewellyn was working in car rentals at the time.
And we can't figure out where it came from and
it's a station wagon. So but you have this whole
series of events, David Ferry flying in there two days
before the assassination and having Joe Cody fly his plane
back to Shreveport to me, makes sense, or might not
have even been David's plane, might have just been a
plane he had access to.
Speaker 1: For you're muting, Thanks, Corey got the gardener out here. Well,
you'll get pushback though. Wasn't the a plane not airworthy
or something like that at the time? Have you heard
this farious plane? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know all that stuff. It's it's whatever. And
that doesn't even register to me because that means nothing.
Somebody said it was it wasn't airworthy.
Speaker 1: Who knows well made comfort Ferry himself and how reputable
is that?
Speaker 2: And also Fairy has borrowed planes before. There was a
plane that belonged to I want to say, Jimmy Johnson
and somebody else, and Ferry had borrowed that and like
kept it longer than he was supposed to do. This
this planes, If he's at an airport, there's planes. I'm
not really worried about which plane he would have taken,
you know what I mean. So there had options.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are pilots all over those case. However,
you caution the idea of flying folks out as escaped
in general.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, yeah, there's no evidence that anyone got flown
out anywhere except for Seymour and Lawrence Howard. And that's
all covered in the Robert Vincent flight from Dallas stuff.
So the Robert Vincent flight from Dallas stuff is crucial
because he actually sees two guys. One looks like Oswald
and another one's a big husky Latin. How many times
we got to see the same pair all over the place.
I mean, at this point, it's not even it's not
even I'm not even speculating at this point. It's those guys.
And where'd they go? They when they get in the flight,
they get to, uh, we're in New Mexico. Well why
is that important? Well, because Seymour is from Arizona. One
stayed over. You know, they're probably gonna get picked up
by Lauren Hall, who probably picked up the Green Nash
Rambler from the parking lot of the Tidy Lady Laundry.
Because all of them, so you gotta think Seymour is
going back home to Phoenix or Tucson. And you've got
Haul and Howard who live in Los Angeles, and then
they left the Green Nash Rambler in the parking lot
of the Tidy Lady Laundry, and the two of them
get on a plane and Lauren Hall probably got tasked
with driving the Green Nash Rambler all the way back
to Los Angeles, or picking those guys up in New
Mexico and then driving back to Los Angeles or wherever.
That's probably the series of events.
Speaker 1: So when you're still hearing fairy people are called fair
low hanging fruit, are you do? You just palm your psich?
Do that?
Speaker 2: What are they talking about? Low hanging fruit? It's like
the most obvious thing in the whole case. The fact
that he was involved in the assassination is the single
most obvious thing in the whole case. The first five
minutes of the JFK film pretty much show that I
don't understand how people couldn't think that he Oh, he
lied about where he was and he got tripped up
in his conversation. No, he never went goose hunting or
none of that stuff, and never actually even went ice skating.
When you look at the story, he sat by the phone,
but he told people he went because he wasn't there.
How obvious does it have to be? And are you
gonna make up some big alibi story over the Winterland
and how people poses you and drive around the state
acting like you and checking into motels just so you
can go do some other stuff. No, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous,
not combined with the photographic evidence in Daley Plaza clearly, Like,
if there's any one thing on planet Earth, I would
bet my life on I will bet my eternal soul
that David Ferry is the shooter behind the pig of fence. Okay,
there you go. That's how confident I am. It's not
even a matter of it's not even a matter of,
don't have to think twice about it. No, it's so obvious.
It's like DIRP.
Speaker 1: Now at the Alamo Hotel. This is supposedly Fairies room. Okay,
there's close to New Orleans media. What was those about
where were those?
Speaker 2: Okay, So in this I think will jump out at
you when you read the Kerry Thornley fifty page aff
of David. But Kerry Thornley made it very clear to
Jim Garrison as if he was intentionally plugging holes that
Garrison would have had in a case that he had
an abundance of friends at w SHO and WDSU in
particular Walter Sheridan and Rick Townley and who else would
it have been? Oh, and w SHO. In case people
don't know this owned by Hank Greenspun of The Sun
newspaper in Las Vegas. The story of how he wired
it is pretty fascinating and it involves Jack Martin and
bullying the guy out of his own radio station.
Speaker 1: Ah. Very interesting that is you dangled this before. I mean,
that's a scoop. I haven't seen that anywhere.
Speaker 2: Certain I found it in a radio archive. I found
it in some there's a website that's like the history.
Speaker 1: Of finding something, World Radio History.
Speaker 2: It was some crazy thing. It was like, that's the
weirdest I think. I was looking for w s h
O and like that's where stuff started popping up. And
then that linked if I'm not mistaken. I googled something
from there and it connected me to somewhere else and
that's where I found the Jack Martin stuff. But basically,
this guy had a radio station. CIA wanted to I'm
paraphrasing the CIA wanted to buy the radio station out
from under him, and he's like, no, screw you. So
they had Jack Martin and a bunch of thugs harass
him and his family and stuff, and then he eventually
sold and he sold it to Hank Greenspun of the
Sun newspaper. And so that's the ownership trail leading up
to the assassination. WDSU was nbc C, you know CIA, So.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's where all yeah, exactly, that's where all
of the Ed Butler's material and everything that and and
think about the Woldemort coverage that see and specifically where
it was doing the material they had in order to
put Oswald out there already, so they were ready to
hit the ground. Gosh. Okay, So going now to Hammond,
let's put you alone in context, and what has he
always said now for almost sixty years. He made a
statement in sixty seven, So when some folks say, well, well,
how come this is all coming out. Now, well it's not.
It's been there.
Speaker 2: Let's clarify the official story so we can debunk it.
The official story is that Fairy didn't show up in
Hammond until forget about what Compton said about Sunday morning,
but it was Monday morning, five am. This is when
the official story places David Ferry at Hammond, and he
doesn't stay there long. He stays there for a couple
of hours and leaves in the morning. Thomas Compton said
he left about eight thirty in the morning. However, we
just aren't really sure. We know he drives back and
he ends up. What time does he get to Garrison's
Like one in the afternoon, So, yeah, I can see
that eight thirty nine o'clock in the morning. He takes
an hour to drive back home up. Yeah, it's not
that far. And so we've got that basically. That's about right.
So the official story, official story, shows up five thirty
in the morning, cries to Thomas Compton, they got my
things and all this stuff leaves by eight thirty or nine. Okay,
That right there alone does not allow for there to
be an incident where David Ferry would be sleeping in
Compton's bed facing the wall at ten eleven o'clock in
the morning. Right, there's no that the official story does
not allow for Compton. For Chiloona's story to exist at all,
waking up, leaving the dorm, coming back around ten or eleven,
and this man is sleeping in the bed, that the
official story does not allow for that to ever have occurred. Okay.
So the problem with people who are trying to debunk
the notion that this has happened on Saturday are sticking
to the idea that he was seen watching the funeral
on Monday. Okay, we have to remember the funeral lasted
three days. It was Saturday and Sunday. They had viewings
and all the same pomp and circumstance, and then the
actual funeral was on Monday. Okay, So anyone sitting there.
Number One, we don't have any evidence that Dave Ferry
was sitting there in the dorm rooms on Monday before
he left at eight thirty or nine in the morning,
he was with Thomas Compton, and Chilowna doesn't mention any
of this stuff because he's either sleeping or not there
or whatever the deal is. But Chilowona doesn't mention any
of this interaction between Dave Faery and Thomas Compton, probably
because he was unaware of it. And so the day
that Chilona saw Ferry watching TV had to have been
on Sunday, and he said it was Sunday. Actually in
his statement right, he said that it was Sunday that
he saw them there, and it was the day before
that he had arrived when he had seen him there.
So we're locked in on the timeframe. The official story
does not allow for any of that stuff to have
happened on Monday. That means that David Faery had to
have been watching the funeral viewing on Sunday, and that's
when he's seen by Shilona, and it would have been
the day before that he had seen the man sleeping
in his roommate's bed, because he mentions that he didn't
see him again till the next day when he's watching
the funeral. So that's our timeline right there. He shows
up Friday night, he's seen by Chillona on Saturday, he's
seen by Chilowna again watching the funeral on Sunday. And remember,
according to the official story, he's not supposed to be
here at all. Yet until Monday morning, five o'clock in
the morning, okay, And so then he doesn't see him
again after that, right, and so he doesn't know what
happened to him. He just assumes that he left that day.
But Fairy will be there until the next day doing well.
He might have left to do some stuff. I mean,
we don't know. He probably wasn't just hanging around the
dorm rooms. He was in Hammond, which is where clay
Shaw's got family. And here's one thing that drives me nuts.
The FBI and Garrison dug it. There was a hotel
in There was a hotel there in Hammond. I believe
that they did an investigation into So who knows that
what the deal with that hotel was. I don't know
anything about it. So Fairy probably went out and did
stuff on Sunday, crashed you know, that night at the
dorm or went out somewhere else. Maybe he didn't, maybe
he maybe who hell knows what he did, and then
he's gone Monday. So no, Sholoona. Here's the thing. Number one.
We have a document now that says that Shilowona saw
Ferry on Saturday. Okay, we have a living witness who
confirmed it was Saturday. We don't need anything else. We
have a slam dunk. You know, this is it. This
is a slam dunk case. So I don't see how
anyone could even attempt to pick this apart.
Speaker 1: You're still doubting Chilowna's own words. And if you watch
the interview which Will Lenk below, he gives very clear,
very descriptive accounts of before we even talk about that weekend.
He's talking about people that he was sitting in a
booth with when he just I to go down to
make a statement. He's talking about memories of Thomas Thompson
as being an amateur astronomer, as working at a rat labbit.
By the way, this Compton fellow cut from the same cloth, Corey,
it seems us fairy. I mean, these two guys were
piece of pod Well.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in the relationship with Bill Wolf because Bill
Wolf only pops up in the in the Harvey and
Lee story. Bill Wolf is not an assassination character. He's
a Harvey and Lee character, and so I'm really fascinated
to know how Thomas Compton knew him. So you guess
he's a just because he's an amateur astronomer. I could
see the interest, but Bill wolf is only like they're
like the same age. It's not like he's not some
older guy. Bill Wolfe is like the same Uh, he
was the same age as the other guys in that group.
But yeah, it's really the whole situation with with that
is really weird. But ultimately the reason that Wolf is
important is because Wolf will confirm that they didn't start
having the astronomer meetings at I forget if it was
his house or the secretary at arms. There's another guy
who was doing this, but they didn't start having the
meetings at this guy's house until nineteen fifty eight till
January nineteen fifty eight, and this is when they met Oswald.
And this is when Oswald is provably over in Atsugi, Japan.
That's why it's such a big deal with Wolf. So
but Wolf's statements are this is it's the same thing
when you try to put Oswald when you look at
this fist or dental lab stuff, which is at the
same time period as the Astronomers Club stuff. The evidence
is overwhelming from multiple people who can nail down the
timing and the timing that Oswald was there was October
of fifty seven to March or fifty eight, clear as
day from a half a dozen different witnesses. But that's
when he's in the Marines. So people just ignore it
like it doesn't even exist.
Speaker 4: It's pathetic, you know, it's interesting Fairy would have known
the original Lee Oswalt in CP nineteen fifty five.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. Oswald didn't stick. Oswald didn't do
shit with those guys. He doesn't join till July twenty fourth.
I believe it was the last week of July, and
he only went to like two or three events and
then he stopped going. And so you got his buddy
down there, Oh god, what's his name from his buddy
from school ed ed? What's his I can't remember the
last name offhand, but his buddy Ed, who knew both
Harvey and Lee. He still goes. He continues to go,
and he's trying to he's calling Lee going, hey, what's up?
Are you coming or not? And so Oswald really was
not a big cap guy. He just did it a
couple of times eDV Bell eDV Bell. So he only
went to the CP because of Edva Bell and so
he didn't really give a shit about it. And so
what we have. We have the picture of him in uniform,
and we have the picture of him at the barbecue,
and that's it. That's the only real evidence that he
was involved when he really didn't care. He didn't have
an official CAAP uniform. They went out to like the
Goodwill or whatever, cheap clothing store and they had to
hobble together a uniform for him using the collar irons,
you know. So yeah, it wasn't something he was dedicated to.
So people the conflation with him and Fairy Fairry probably
didn't remember the guy at all because he met him.
He probably only met him that one time. Maybe he
met him twice, but a lot of kids were coming
and going, people would bring their friends to check it out.
So I don't doubt that he had no idea who
that kid was. And do I think that he interacted
with Oswald in New Orleans in sixty three, No, no,
at all at all. I think the only people who
interacted with Oswald were Carrie Thornley and Clay Shaw. That's it.
We have evidence of those two directly interacting with Oswald.
Everybody else I can't put Oswald anywhere except with Kerry Thornley. Right,
Kerry Thornley was the one who got the flyers printed,
obviously managing the fair play for Cuba committee stuff. The
whole thing would bring the air in the fight and
all that stuff. Obviously that was meant to get the attention.
That was meant to draw attention to him because they
were building that persona that will lead to the god
day phone call to Jesse Corer, to John Corporan that
gets him on TV, right, the whole CIA setup. So
that was kind of important there. But no, I don't
believe for us split second he interacted with Dave Ferry.
I don't think he ever went to five forty four
Camp Street one hundred percent of the Oswald sightings at
Camp Street, where Carrie Thornley, I am completely convinced, because
you're not ever gonna let the guy you're setting up
hang out with you and see what you got going on.
It's just not gonna do it. I think they set
him up from a distance. They set him up from
a distance, you know. I think he gets out of
the he gets back from the Soviet Union and he
thinks that he's being a spy for his country. He
gets back to wherever he is, Dallas or New Orleans,
and I guarantee they mandated he moved to New Orleans
in that April. But I think that what they were
doing was just they told him, hey, uh, you know,
be low key, go get a regular job, or maybe
they had some front jobs land up for him, but
I don't think he was doing much. The only evidence
that I've found so far to me that would indicate
he had some sort of intelligence, actual doing stuff in
intelligence was when he signs into the Atomic Energy Museum
up in Knoxville. That's it. That's the only time that
I can see, and the government still denies that, but
it's clearly his handwriting. It is legit his handwriting on
that sign in, and that trip falls right in line
with the trip to the Jesuit School. But then all
of his relatives, all of his relatives lie about going
to Knoxville, because if it was two days before that,
they all there clear stories about them driving up to
the driving up to the Jesuit College and Mobile. And
so if they're all telling the story about they drove
with him to Mobile, but he signed in Knoxville two
days before that, somebody's fucking lying. Why are they lying?
Why are they lying? Why are they covering for the
fact he went to the Atomic Energy Museum, right, and
then you got the letter from Da Wolf. I don't
know if it was you I talked to this about,
but I talked about as recently Da Wolf wrote a
letter like a character witness letter about Oswald. Oh no,
he wrote to Oswald's mother. Okay, so he sends Oswald's
mother a letter. He's calling him Harvey the whole time
he's talking about him, and it was from Knoxville. Okay,
da Wolf from Knoxville. Well, when I find out Da
Wolf is an atomic scientist. Da Wolf is an atomic
scientist stationed up at Knoxville, up at the nuclear reactor
up there. Why the hell is this guy writing letters
to Oswald's mother and calling him Harvey? What's going on
with this? He talked about him like he knew him,
like they were close. How the fuck? How is Oswald
close to anybody in Knoxville. Well, we do have a
Clavery connection to Knoxville and a voit Ta connection to Knoxville.
But I haven't even attempted to connect those dots on
the back end yet.
Speaker 1: You're talking about Oswald's relatives there.
Speaker 2: But yes, Oswald's relatives on his mother's side have as
a voit ta connection in Knoxville.
Speaker 1: Well, then at what point do you think Ferry then
would have gotten on board to plot if he Oswald link,
that's what you're saying to me. It's interesting, but.
Speaker 2: That he had to have he had to have been
in the loop with bolton Ford. I mean, he had
to have been aware of bolton Ford. And we're going
back to what February of sixty one or January of sixteen.
Speaker 1: One, pretty early on, because I think sixty one is
when he's making this obviously his post Babe Pigs rant
at the Veterans Right presentation.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, but I mean, as far as
the setup goes, we can say with certainty that they
started using his name at bolton Ford back all the
way back in January sixty one, and then we have
the ordering of the rifle in March of sixty three,
you know, so they had a long time, They had
over two years that Oswald's name was in play for
whatever reason. Obviously there was no assassination plot in sixty one.
I think that was more to continue the Oswald Communist legend.
I think that's more what that was about, and they
would repurpose him to do something else when he got
back from the Soviet Union or Carrie Thornley is just stupid,
and that's a possibility too. He's just stupid and used
Oswald's name because he's stupid and he didn't think it
would ever come back to haunt him. That could be
a possibility also, he just was I don't know, but
the idea of him being arrogant and stupid like that
and using Oswald's name and then Oswald ending up back
in New Orleans and being set up, nah, nah No,
it's got to be all one continuous. The setup of
Oswald for the assassination and then getting him into the
into Cuba or maintaining his current legend all had to
be interconnected. Had to be, which drags in naval intelligence
at some level has to has to They're the specter
in the background that never goes away exactly.
Speaker 1: So in order for this plot to ev been pulled
off as well as it had, but as it was
pulled off, other elements down the road need to fall
into place, uh. Every In other words, as soon as
that motor kid is out of Daley Plaza. You are.
Now there's a there's a kind of shift in who's
running the show, so there has to be right, I mean,
do you want.
Speaker 2: To like, yeah, start like you know, this to me
comes all the way. This goes right back to David
Ferry because you have the assassinations done. What happens next
to the tip of shooting, of which David Ferry was
a key a key point in. And then so you
got remember the statement of Velma who said that that
Fairry and Tippett met up behind that big building across
the way, which had to have been the Daltext building.
And then tip it goes over to the glocals station,
and David Ferry will go over to tenth and Patent,
and then Carrie Thornley will do whatever he was doing
all day after going to the Top ten record store
in the morning and buying tickets and then going to
the the Jiffy store and buying pik of brittle and
beer and just goofing off all day. He ends up
making it back to the safe house right by what
was that two o'clock were we talking about one o'clock?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Before yeah, right, So yeah, so David Ferry is key
in all this, David Ferry played a major role in
pulling off the uh whatever was planned the tip Oft
shooting had to have been planned or else David Ferry
wouldn't have been sitting there waiting for him, right, It
had to have been a pre arranged meeting spot. So yeah,
but Ferry was a major, major given a lot of
a lot of room. I think. See, I think if
you asked me who pulled who plotted the assassination, like
on the ground level, I think the mob had some say,
David Ferry had some say. And then Carrie Thornley was
obviously tasked with killing JD. Tippett and creating the trail
to the Texas Theater, right, and then Oswald showed Oswald's
in the theater before carry Thornley is right, So and
then we have, like we talked about with Tim, the
two Oswald's in the theater, which sounds crazy to the
average person, but it's totally not.
Speaker 1: Well, does the average person even know that Jack Ruby
was in the theater? I mean this was a who's who?
Somebody told this fellow called Oswald, who we know the
one to be arrested to go to that movie theater.
At one o'clock is what you're assumptions.
Speaker 2: You're one hundred. He had to go and meet with
a handler who was a pregnant woman. And that's all
we really know. I've dug into pregnant women in this case.
We got a couple in New Orleans connected to Carry Thornley.
A pregnant woman was seen at the pain residence during
the week of the assassination. So we got pregnant women
popping up. I haven't just I don't know who that is.
We need to know, we really need to know. I'd
like to know, but we don't even have a basis
for where she based in Dallas. Was she based to
New Orleans? Was she moving around like Carry Thornley was?
Was she with Kerry Thornley? You know, I could see.
My gut tells me the pregnant woman in the theater
was connected to Carry Thornley. That's what my gut tells me.
I don't know why, but that's my instinct, you know,
because Oswald's dealing with Thornley the whole time, well not
the whole time, because well he might have been the
whole time, because we don't really, we can't really believe
Carry Thornley's story about going to Whittier, California at the
same time that Oswald goes from Dallas to New Orleans.
So we don't really know what carry Thornley was doing.
We know he did go to Whittier because while he's
out there, he goes to a meeting of the State's
Rights Party and he meets with Lauren Hall and Warren Reynolds,
who is a witness to the tip of shooting, which
he just did. What what the Warren Reynolds aspect is weird?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: He was clearly planted there for some reason, and he
worked for a car dealership, right, which brings me back
to the Mercury dealership which had the guy who was
planted there. Also, what's going on with these Mercury dealerships
and Buck Farrell worked there?
Speaker 1: What like.
Speaker 2: This is the Truman Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So so what is your estimation of what Tippett
was thinking that his role was in order for him
to be could you call him also a sort of
patsy in his own way?
Speaker 2: Yes, sort of kind of, yeah, sort of kind of,
Like it's pretty obvious he was sent to the Gloco
station to intercept whoever was getting off that bus. Uh,
the bus to Oswald allegedly gets on. Is the bus
that was going to go right across the bridge, and
it was going to stop right where Tippet was parked
at the Gloco station, and he's parked looking at it right.
So I have no doubt somebody was supposed to get
off that bus. Nobody did get off the bus. And
when nobody got off the bus, he panicked. I don't
know if he was supposed to like arrest somebody, shoot somebody,
you know? Was he thinking that he got a description
of the guy who shot Kennedy and as soon as
he gets off the bus, he's gonna shoot him and
be a hero. Like, is he supposed to arrest him?
What's his deal? Who knows? Some people suspect that he
was supposed to, you know, pick someone up and like
get him out of town or something. I don't believe
that at all. That wouldn't have I don't think that
would have appealed to Tippet, and giving him a job
like to arrest or shoot somebody with worked fine with
his police job, you know what I mean. It would
have been right in line with that, So he would
have been willing to go along with that, I believe.
But he gets to the top ten record store and
he's calling somebody. Who's he calling? Could he be calling Westbrook?
Westbrook seems to have been in the not with what
was going on with everything. Croy two. Possibly, but he
was calling somebody. He doesn't get an answer, and then
he pulls over that guy Andrews right. He gets in
the car. He's speeding, and he pulls over the guy
Andrews cuts him off, like violently, like pulls in front
of him and cuts him off, gets out of the car,
doesn't say a word to him, looks in the car
like he's looking because is he smuggling someone in the
back seat? And he looks and he looks in the backseat.
Is nobody there? He gets back in his car. At
this point, he's like shit, panicking is continuing. He goes
to tenth and Patten. When he gets to tenth and Patten,
he's either getting there at the same time or just
before or right around when Westbrook and Croy and carry
Thornley pull into the alley. It's pretty well established that
the person who they say was Oswald was not walking
down the sidewalk. Neither direction makes any sense. It would
not make any sense for him to be walking either
of those directions. And then there was allegedly a witness
unnamed who saw the man come down the alley, but
we know from Doris Holand that there was a cop
car in the alley. So the cop car drove Carry
Thornley to the tip of shooting. He gets out of
the car. David Ferry's Great Plymouth. Oh my, Carl Mather
is already sitting there. It's behind Tippet's car facing the
other direction. We don't know where Ferry is at this point.
If he's gotten out of the car yet, he might
still be in his car, but he's obviously waiting for
Carry Thornley and the cops there and Tippet. But you
will have carry Thornley walks up and starts to talk
to Tippet through the triangular window. Now, if Tippett does
not know this person, he should immediately be freaking out
because he saw him that morning at the Top ten
record store. Oh my god, this is the guy I
saw at the Top ten record store. What's going on here?
Is this the guy? Is this the guy I'm looking
for who got off the bus, who obviously didn't get
off the bus, and I think that maybe where he
starts to think that this is the guy who he
was supposed to intercept. Getting off the bus, he pulls
his gun and as he does it, carry Thornley shoots
him three times in the chest. He falls down. As
he's on the ground, David Ferry is there. He fires
one shot into tip its head. Four shots boom. He
will For some reason, Akila Clemens sees David Ferry, who
she described as he was kind of heavy, but he
wasn't a very big man, and he had a coat
on and he was kind of chunky. You know, that's
David Ferry. And so then he she says that he's
reloading his gun, but he's got a revolver. What's he
needs to reload his gun for? What's he need to
reload the gun for? Carry Thorntley's gun was a semi automatic.
Clearly a semi automatic. It was called out over the radio.
Is a semi automatic. The imprints on the back of
the cartridges we have are clearly from a semi automatic.
So you got two guns involved in the tip of shooting.
And so then from there you'll have Kerry Thornley take
off and go to the secondhand junk shop, and the
entire Texas Theater story will unfold. And then you have
David Ferry, I believe, goes to the house on Belmont
where he does a car swap for the Ford Falcon
and then drives to him in Louisiana. But everyone dips
him and Thornleigh dip at the same time, give or
take to head back to Louisiana.
Speaker 1: So when Tippet and Ferry cross paths behind dal Tex,
they know each other.
Speaker 2: Yes, in your estimation, Yes, because according to Velma, Tippett
pulls up and he gets out of the car and
he says to David Ferry, I said, move that car.
And that car is the gray Plymouth owned by Carl Mather,
who's a close friend to Tippet, So he probably doesn't
want the car being seen here, you know what I mean,
because it's his buddy's car. So as I said, move
that car. And so then they take off and they
go talk behind the Daltex building. As per Velma, what's said.
Who knows. But from there we know Tippet will go
to the glocal station where he's told to go. He's
told to intercept somebody. I think that he will when
he's when Kerry Thornley comes up talks through it to
him through the triangular window. I think at this point
he's starting to think that that's the guy who was
supposed to get off the bus he was supposed to
intercept there, so he gets out and pulls his gun
and everything else.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: We know.
Speaker 1: The rest was the shooting of Tippett, then to instigate
Dallas PD to mobilize, then to the Texas Theater because.
Speaker 2: The only thing I can think of calling everybody, it
ties up a loose end by getting rid of Tippet,
who was obviously in on the situation in the first place.
And then, no matter how you felt about Kennedy, if
one of your guys you work with gets killed, you're
on it. You're on it, you know.
Speaker 1: The Oswald the Oswald charge was initially for shooting the
police officer, not for president.
Speaker 2: Correct. Maybe they knew they couldn't make a case, but
they could make that case easy. Maybe they knew as
long as they had a witness who saw somebody who
looked like Oswald, you know, then they could make that
case and wrap it up even without the evidence for
killing the president. Maybe that was a slam dunk, and
the president wasn't you.
Speaker 1: Know, the idea being that things unraveled enough where he
probably shouldn't have been brought out of the text theater alive.
Speaker 2: In your estimation, if he had gotten killed in the theater,
they would have wrapped the whole thing up with a
bow on it. There wouldn't be any JFK records act,
there wouldn't be nothing. This guy did it, and we
would have a custom tailored set of documents that showed
exactly what they wanted us to see, and they'd be like,
this is all we got, you know.
Speaker 1: So at the same time, going back to my initial question,
which was there's still a cover up that's unfolding with
the Kennedy body. And I'm touched on this before, because
you know, you have what the plotters were capable of
on the ground, and then at some point that's over
and so then becomes up to kind of where we
are today. Yeah, So I'm wondering if that was a
I'm just wondering.
Speaker 2: There had to be there had to be people back
in Washington who were aware and waiting, and then once
they got the story from once the story started to
proliferate of the three shells under the window, which I
can still only find evidence of two. That photograph of
the three shells under the window could have been taken
at any time. But I just did this. I just
put this part together in my Warning from History volume two.
I just put together about eight pages of documents that
all show, every single one of them shows two shells
were collected under the window, not three. But I think
that's a different that's a different point I'm making. But
as far as the plotter is up at Bethesda, they
had to be they had to be made aware of
what they had to work with. Hey, we got three
shells under a window. That's what you got to work with.
Three bullets. That's it. So if they're up there at Bethesda,
they see like ten bullets, they know what they got
to do to cover that up. But yes, I do
believe that there was a lot of people in Washington
who were aware, but not necessarily directly in the line
of plotting. You know, too many people. There's too many people.
In the line of plotting, you only got a handful
of people. But in the actual awareness there's a plot
probably a lot more.
Speaker 1: Because you can do you can do things that you
wouldn't know as part of a greater mechanism. In other words,
right I get a task to I don't know, call
Sam Bloom or you're wat Rosstaw in the working for
the in DC. So it does kind of get blurred over.
Otherwise you have this massive you have this massive thing.
If you look at the if you look at Roman history,
if you take the Kennedy story as a as a
segment from Roman history, you'll never question it. You totally
will accept that this was you know, there's one probably
my favorite line in the film is in JFK. He's
given it to he gives it to Garrison and he says,
lakes No, it's it's Donald Sutherland's character during the mister
X sequence, you know, and he's like Lake Caesar. He's
surrounded by enemies and that you know, you totally can
see this as a Roman drama conspiracy. You put it
in our context, and there's this cognitive dissonance that no,
this still can't have happened to us on our soil,
to our prison and by our people, and that's that's
very hard to understand. Still, I've talked to you about
this before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's funny. My favorite line from that
movie is he goes, you know, Bill, how come just
because a woman's a prostitute means she has to have
bad eyesight?
Speaker 1: Uh, you know for the warrant commission to be assembled
the way it was, that to me, says, that's a
lineup of useful gooms, even if they don't know what's
going on. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I do hesitate like you do to
call out LBJ. But well, he's middle management all day.
He's middle management, and he was a puppet. The guy
never won an election.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: The guy is a scumbag, but he was a useful
tool to a lot of different groups. So, but no,
he's definitely not a mastermind of anything.
Speaker 1: If I was very or if I was a chief flotter, somehow,
I would be so good. You can't predict what's going
to happen. I just can't get over how everything lined
up so perfectly for this to play out the way
it did, and for it to be continued for so long.
Even at Fairi's death. He seems obsessed with the case.
I've seen him where he's trying to understand dijectories and
he's done dying.
Speaker 2: He is stressed out because he wanted to figure out
if they could ever figure out that he was there,
because why else would he be so nervous, Why would
he be so nervous for years and years and years,
and why would he be so nervous about Garrison coming
for him if he didn't do anything, It's just police
work one on one man like Fairy's behavior, is the
level of research he did on the assassination to figure
things out, Like that guy probably read all twenty six volumes,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it maybe even killed him at the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm not I'm not real big on they
killed him or he killed himself, or it could have
been any one of them. Three man, I mean, he
was not in good health at the time and the
level of stress he was under, like and he had cancer,
I guess, and he had a who till knows what
else he had wrong with him, But and he didn't
live the healthiest lifestyle either, so he could have died
just natural causes.
Speaker 1: You never know. It is a living witness that you
would want to see, uh interviewed, Well, this person is
still alive and who's even around at this point is Seymour.
Still I don't know.
Speaker 2: I last heard of I thought so. I don't know, though.
I was contacted by somebody who worked out that way
as a UPS driver and they were going to look
into that address that we had, but came back with nothing.
So I don't know. I don't know wht who's up,
Bill Frasier, I don't even know who was left.
Speaker 1: Fraser who supposedly drove this Oswald fellow in the morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his story is bunk. He was coached or made
that story up. I don't believe any of it. You know,
he said that Oswald showed up wearing a gray flannel
wool type coat. Really, really, people who like to think
that Oswald showed up in a coat that day need
to explain to me why he went home to get
a coat. None of the story about Oswald being there
that day makes any sense at all. None of it.
None of it. And then when you start debunking things
like the coke story and all that, you realize the
guy was never there. Because if they're arresting somebody, they're
saying is Oswald. So if you got William Seymour in
the building, he's wearing the light brown jacket. He stopped
by Date Baker, and truly he's then identified by Fritz
in the report as Oswald, and it's definitely not Oswald.
You're gonna tell me that the real Oswald was there? Also? Really,
I don't think so. I don't think so at all.
Doesn't make any sense at all. The only thing that
makes sense is that was William Seymour, and he'd been
working there since October fifteenth, just like his application said.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it's just to close off the well,
just to close for today, just to go back to
the Winterland. When you make the argument, well let's go back.
I mean we open this about research. When you came
across your winter Wind material, tell me how you felt
like when a researcher finds something. Describe that feeling for people.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of different feelings, because at first
you're like, well, if there was something to find here,
it would have been found in sixty years. So you're like,
whatever I'm seeing, I'm just not understanding. And then once
you do understand it, you're like, holy shit, nobody's figured
this out yet. Like the thing that really tipped me
off about the Winterland, the first thing that's hit me
off about the Winterland was that Chuck Roland said, David
Ferry introduced himself five times. What why would you do that?
Because you're drawing attention to yourself. Not only that, when
you start to go through the details of how Ferry
got there and all that stuff, it turns out that
when Fairy first shows up, Chuck Roland isn't there. So
he goes to the other employees and he tells them something.
I don't know what he says, but Roland will later
make a statement that he said something to them that
he thought was drawing attention to him. So I don't
know what he said. He probably said I'm David Ferry,
I'm here a bunch of times to them before Chuck
Rowland even shows up. Then the more I get into it,
I'm like this, none of it made sense. Then you
start getting into it farious interviews where he can't remember
where he was, And once you start realizing that he
can't remember where he was because he wasn't there, You're like,
oh my god, he wasn't there, and why wasn't he there?
He wasn't there because he was in Dallas.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Once the domino start to fall. They can only fall
one way, really, and like all roads lead to ferry
at the knoll.
Speaker 1: Were you uncovering this prior to looking at behind the
scenes of winterland ownership, et cetera, or did you Did
you figure that out first and then that helped put
the pieces together.
Speaker 2: I don't really recall the order, but I know that
I did all the winterland stuff within my first year,
probably six months to a year was probably when I
got to it. So the thing that really got me
about the winterland I don't remember which phase I was in,
but when I realized that Jack Valenti's sister married into
the family of Mary Boots Roberts by marrying Vincent cal
to Gerone, I was like that was I about fell
out my goddamn chair, Like that was like, that was
to me the single biggest, oh my god moment in
everything I've ever done. Connecting Jack Valenti's sister to the
to the call to grons was like, oh my God.
And then once I realized all that stuff about Raoul
and Valenti and all the and I started studying Raoul
and Raoul went to the same school and joined the
navy and did all the same stuff. That called the
girone did, I'm like, this is the guy. And then
you got to James Earl Ray identifying him as Raoul
from the Daily Plaza pictures. That was that was uh yeah,
it all kind of came together within the first year.
Speaker 1: Thanks love for her being on today.
Speaker 2: Man, no problem, take care see it.