Texas Senator Ted Cruz Talks Canada Trade

US Senator Ted Cruz, a Texas Republican, discusses US-Canadian trade tensions, the backlash against data center development and the legacy of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas on "Balance of Power: Evening Edition." He talks to Bloomberg's Joe Mathieu and Kailey Leinz.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.

Speaker 2: Joining us now is Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas.

Speaker 2: He is the chair of the Senate Committee on Commerce,

Speaker 2: Science and Transportation and also author of the new book,

Speaker 2: Going Further, The Incomparable Clarence Thomas. Senator Cruz, welcome back

Speaker 2: to Bloomberg TV and radio. And we are excited to

Speaker 2: discuss your book with you. But could I first ask

Speaker 2: your reaction to what we heard today? from Premier Ford.

Speaker 2: Canada clearly does not feel like it wants to accept

Speaker 2: a bad deal from the United States. And yet the U.S.

Speaker 2: still seems like it's ready and willing to wage this

Speaker 2: trade war. Is this exactly what the United States doesn't

Speaker 2: need right now is another trade war, higher tariffs and

Speaker 2: potentially higher prices?

Speaker 1: Look, I think we'll get this resolved.

Speaker 3: I was encouraged listening to the premier say at the

Speaker 3: end there, let's make a deal, let's make a deal. Listen,

Speaker 3: Donald Trump has demonstrated that the threat of tariffs is

Speaker 3: an incredible incentive to bring our trading partners to the table,

Speaker 3: to incentivize them to open up their markets, to lower

Speaker 3: their own tariffs, to remove non-tariff barriers. I think that

Speaker 3: is a very positive thing. There are two camps within

Speaker 3: the Trump administration. There's one camp that wants the threat

Speaker 3: of tariffs to be used in that direction, to lower tariffs,

Speaker 3: to expand trade.

Speaker 1: I'm emphatically in that camp.

Speaker 3: There is a second camp in the administration that just

Speaker 3: wants high tariffs and perpetuity.

Speaker 1: I think that camp is misguided.

Speaker 3: So what I'm hopeful is the resolution here will be

Speaker 3: that Canada will come to the table and we'll end

Speaker 3: up with more trade with Canada. Are farmers exporting more beef,

Speaker 3: more corn, more soybeans, more American goods, more American booze?

Speaker 3: All of that I'd like to see happen. And I

Speaker 3: think this is part of the back and forth, hopefully,

Speaker 3: to get to that point.

Speaker 4: Well, that's a really interesting answer, Senator, and we really

Speaker 4: appreciate your listening to the interview before you joined us today.

Speaker 4: Clearly you did because, look, the options sometimes are limited.

Speaker 4: If you're not buying potash from Canada, your option is

Speaker 4: to go buy it from Russia. So a deal, it seems,

Speaker 4: might help ranchers in Texas just as much as farmers

Speaker 4: in the Midwest.

Speaker 3: Well, and Canada is an enormous energy producer. You look

Speaker 3: at Calgary and Alberta, they have massive oil and gas reserves.

Speaker 3: Their oil and gas producers work very closely with Texas refineries.

Speaker 3: So all of that, our economies are interconnected. And my

Speaker 3: hope is that the end result of all of this

Speaker 3: back and forth is we end up with an agreement

Speaker 3: that has more trade all around. If that's the case,

Speaker 3: that's good for Texas and it's good for Americans.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Senator, I'd like to ask you about whether another question

Speaker 2: is good for Americans, and that's data center development. This

Speaker 2: is a hot issue across the country, but especially so

Speaker 2: in Texas, where both now the man running to be

Speaker 2: your colleague in the Senate, Ken Paxton, and Governor Abbott

Speaker 2: seem to have turned against data centers. Is that the

Speaker 2: only way to win in your state or across the

Speaker 2: country in this midterm cycle, be anti-data center?

Speaker 3: Well, listen, I think it is critical that America win

Speaker 3: the race for AI. But I also think the concerns

Speaker 3: being raised about data centers are real and reasonable and

Speaker 3: they need to be addressed and they need to be

Speaker 3: addressed head on. It's worth noting that this anti-data center

Speaker 3: movement is not entirely organic, that China is putting real

Speaker 3: money into funding this movement.

Speaker 1: You've got this guy, Neville Roy Singham, who is a Marxist.

Speaker 3: He's a communist American billionaire who lives in China and

Speaker 3: who is funding much of this. And from China's perspective,

Speaker 3: they want us to never build another data center and

Speaker 3: basically cede all of AI to them.

Speaker 1: That would be a bad outcome. Now, what are real concerns?

Speaker 2: Is Ken Paxton and Governor Abbott falling for Chinese propaganda?

Speaker 3: No, because if you look at what they're saying, I

Speaker 3: agree with what they're saying. The concerns the voters have

Speaker 3: are twofold on data centers. Number one, water. Number two, power.

Speaker 3: Water is a very real concern. Here's the good news.

Speaker 3: Virtually all new data centers being built use what's called

Speaker 3: closed loop cooling, which means they use the same water

Speaker 3: and just circulate it over and over and over again.

Speaker 1: So their water consumption is very, very low.

Speaker 3: I agree with Governor Abbott is putting rules in place

Speaker 3: that say if you're going to build a data center,

Speaker 3: you have to minimize your water consumption so you don't

Speaker 3: consume too much of the water from the community.

Speaker 1: That makes sense. Number two.

Speaker 3: Voters are understandably concerned about electricity prices. Electricity prices have

Speaker 3: risen 30 percent since 2021.

Speaker 1: And a lot of people are struggling to make ends meet.

Speaker 3: I agree with what Governor Abbott has said, which is

Speaker 3: no new data center will be built in Texas unless

Speaker 3: the impact of that data center is zero, is absolutely

Speaker 3: not one penny added to anyone's electricity bills.

Speaker 1: I think that makes sense.

Speaker 3: And I'll tell you, I'm urging the companies that are

Speaker 3: building these data centers go further than that. Make the

Speaker 3: benefits available. absolutely clear and indisputable. I'm urging them, send

Speaker 3: checks to the residents of the community. Send them a

Speaker 3: hundred bucks a month, send them 500 bucks a month,

Speaker 3: send them a thousand bucks a month, or even better, say,

Speaker 3: if we build a data center in your community, for

Speaker 3: the rest of your life, your electricity bill is free.

Speaker 3: We will pay your electricity bill. That's how you win

Speaker 3: the PR battle is you make the benefit. Suddenly people

Speaker 3: will be like, hot diggity damn, I like that data

Speaker 3: center because I don't pay a power bill.

Speaker 1: That's how you win these fights.

Speaker 4: I'd love to see this in practice, Senator, because you're

Speaker 4: probably onto something when it comes to the sales pitch,

Speaker 4: knowing that a lot of the newer data centers are

Speaker 4: actually fulfilling the requirements that you just mentioned in terms

Speaker 4: of closed loop cooling off-grid or behind the meter, as

Speaker 4: they call it, energy flows. I wonder if these flock

Speaker 4: cameras are coming next, and you'll see where I'm going

Speaker 4: with this because we do want to get to your book.

Speaker 4: This is something that everybody's talking about as well, and

Speaker 4: there's Republican legislation to ban federal spending on these flock cameras.

Speaker 4: Wall Street Journal today says there are 120,000 of them

Speaker 4: in 48 states capturing 20 billion license plates a month.

Speaker 4: This feels like the next data center issue. on the

Speaker 4: campaign trail. What would a Justice Clarence Thomas make of this?

Speaker 3: Well, look, I'll tell you what a Ted Cruz would

Speaker 3: make of it, which is I don't like flood cameras.

Speaker 1: I don't like government surveillance.

Speaker 3: I don't think the government should be surveilling innocent citizens.

Speaker 3: We should use law enforcement to go after criminals, but

Speaker 3: we have a presumption of innocence. And I think the

Speaker 3: surveillance state, China has built an espionage and surveillance state.

Speaker 3: I don't want to see America the same way. I

Speaker 3: think these flock cameras really invite abuse, and I'm hopeful

Speaker 3: the political process will constrain it.

Speaker 2: Well, so maybe the political and not the judicial process.

Speaker 2: I think, Senator, what Joe is getting to here is

Speaker 2: a question of civil liberties and constitutional rights and whether

Speaker 2: or not they are being violated in this instance. These are,

Speaker 2: of course, the very questions that Justice Thomas has been

Speaker 2: dealing with through his tenure on the court. And your

Speaker 2: book is about his legacy on the court and the

Speaker 2: background that, of course, got them there and shaped his

Speaker 2: judicial view. But what will his legacy be reflected or

Speaker 2: how will people reflect upon his legacy, knowing he was

Speaker 2: sitting on the bench at a time when we saw confidence,

Speaker 2: public confidence in the Supreme Court fall to an all-time low.

Speaker 2: It's just at 33 percent right now, Senator.

Speaker 3: Well, I think Clarence Thomas's legacy is going to be

Speaker 3: one of the most extraordinary jurists to ever serve on

Speaker 3: the court. I know Justice Thomas very well. He's a

Speaker 3: good friend. We've been friends for 30 years. I wrote

Speaker 3: this book, Going Further, The Incomparable Clarence Thomas, to tell

Speaker 3: his life story, because I'll tell you, Kayleigh, his life story,

Speaker 3: it is inspirational.

Speaker 1: It is extraordinary. It is unique.

Speaker 3: There's no one else on the court with a life

Speaker 3: story remotely like this. He was born into abject poverty

Speaker 3: in rural Georgia. He was born at a time of

Speaker 3: bitter racism and discrimination. He came from nothing. He studied

Speaker 3: in the seminary to be a priest. We almost didn't

Speaker 3: get Justice Thomas. We almost got Father Thomas. But he

Speaker 3: left the seminary because he was unhappy. He thought the

Speaker 3: church was not being vigorous enough, standing up to racial discrimination,

Speaker 3: standing up and fighting for civil rights. And so he

Speaker 3: left the church for many years. He went to Holy

Speaker 3: Cross for college and then Yale Law School. And he

Speaker 3: became a left wing campus radical. He was an angry

Speaker 3: young man in camo pants and combat boots and a

Speaker 3: poster of Malcolm X on the wall. He was participated

Speaker 3: in a riot in Harvard Square. And what I try

Speaker 3: to do in this book is, number one, tell his

Speaker 3: life story, taking him from poverty all the way up

Speaker 3: to the pinnacle of American law. but also chronicle his

Speaker 3: intellectual transformation from an angry left-wing radical to one of

Speaker 3: the most important conservative thinkers in the world. Justice Thomas

Speaker 3: is today the second longest serving justice on the Supreme Court.

Speaker 3: In two years, he will be the longest serving justice

Speaker 3: in American history. And what this book tries to do

Speaker 3: is explain 30 years of jurisprudence in language that is understandable,

Speaker 3: that is accessible.

Speaker 1: You don't have to be a lawyer to enjoy this book.

Speaker 3: This book is fun and it has stories inside the court,

Speaker 3: who Clarence Thomas is. Justice Thomas sat one-on-one with me

Speaker 3: for nine and a half hours of exclusive interviews. And

Speaker 3: so I'm telling this story so that you can understand

Speaker 3: a truly consequential figure of history who is about to

Speaker 3: be the longest serving justice ever.

Speaker 4: Well, the narrative is great as we consider the man

Speaker 4: in chapter 10, the lone wolf. You bring us into

Speaker 4: the conference room, of the Supreme Court where then Chief

Speaker 4: Justice William Rehnquist said affirm. He was followed by one

Speaker 4: justice after another all saying affirm until it came to

Speaker 4: a young Clarence Thomas speaking last in order of seniority

Speaker 4: as you point out who said reverse. Whatever the other

Speaker 4: eight justices of the Supreme Court said Justice Thomas was

Speaker 4: willing to say the opposite and as you write he

Speaker 4: was not doing this to be interesting.

Speaker 1: So Senator what was the exercise? Listen he is someone

Speaker 1: who is deeply principled.

Speaker 3: The reason for the title of the book Going Further

Speaker 3: He is the justice most willing to go back to

Speaker 3: the Constitution, go back to the original understanding.

Speaker 1: If a precedent is wrong, to overturn it.

Speaker 3: And he has a faithfulness and fidelity to the Constitution

Speaker 3: that is unique. You know, he was raised by his grandfather.

Speaker 3: He was born into a single mom in really dire circumstances.

Speaker 1: His grandparents raised him.

Speaker 3: And his grandfather was a very strict disciplinarian. Myers Anderson

Speaker 3: was his name, and young Clarence called him Daddy. And

Speaker 3: he would work Clarence and his brother to the bone.

Speaker 3: He'd get them up at three and four in the

Speaker 3: morning to deliver fuel oil in the bitter cold. He

Speaker 3: wouldn't let the boys wear gloves because he thought gloves

Speaker 3: were for the weak. But he taught discipline and hard work.

Speaker 3: And both Justice Thomas's grandparents were illiterate. They couldn't read

Speaker 3: or write. but they encouraged in Clarence reading. He could

Speaker 3: go to the library and read and study. And that attitude,

Speaker 3: there was a common sense self-reliance that he got from

Speaker 3: his grandfather. His grandfather didn't consider himself a conservative, but

Speaker 3: for example, even though they lived in poverty, his grandfather

Speaker 3: told young Clarence they would never go on welfare because

Speaker 3: his grandfather said, if you take welfare from the government,

Speaker 3: you give the government a reason, an ability to come

Speaker 3: into your house and tell you what to do, and

Speaker 3: it's none of their business. And one of my favorite

Speaker 3: things that Justice Thomas's grandfather told him is he said,

Speaker 3: if it don't make no damn sense, it don't make

Speaker 3: no damn sense. That common sense through line.

Speaker 1: Is in Justice Thomas's jurisprudence throughout.

Speaker 2: All right. We'll leave it on that note. Republican Senator

Speaker 2: Ted Cruz, author of Going Further. Thank you so much

Speaker 2: for joining us.

Speaker 1: Thank you.