Howard Lutnick And His Trip To Congress (Part 2)

The transcripts from Howard Lutnick’s closed-door appearance before Congress painted a picture of a witness trying to minimize both the depth and duration of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein while lawmakers confronted him with records suggesting far more contact than he had previously acknowledged. Lutnick repeatedly described his interactions with Epstein as “inconsequential,” insisting he only met with him a handful of times and claiming he cut ties after a disturbing 2005 interaction inside Epstein’s Manhattan townhouse. According to the testimony, Lutnick said Epstein made sexually suggestive comments about massages during that visit, which he claimed immediately disgusted both him and his wife. However, members of the House Oversight Committee confronted him with emails, schedules, and business records showing contact continuing years after Epstein’s 2008 conviction, including meetings at Epstein’s townhouse, discussions involving a shared business venture, and a 2012 lunch visit to Epstein’s private island alongside Lutnick’s family

The transcripts also showed lawmakers growing increasingly frustrated with what they viewed as evasive answers and shifting explanations from Lutnick as more documentation was placed in front of him. Democrats in particular accused him of misleading the public for years about the true extent of the relationship, especially after previously portraying Epstein as little more than a casual acquaintance. Lutnick attempted to explain away the continued contact by claiming the encounters were brief, social, or business-related and that he never witnessed any criminal behavior or saw underage girls around Epstein. He also reportedly walked back previous public comments suggesting Epstein blackmailed powerful people, telling lawmakers he had only been speculating and had no firsthand knowledge of such activity. Republicans on the committee largely defended Lutnick and argued Democrats were trying to weaponize the hearing politically, while critics argued the testimony further demonstrated how many powerful figures continued associating with Epstein long after his criminal conduct was already publicly known.


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source:

HGO126550 Lutnick Draft-pdf2_Redacted-Update_RedactedV3.pdf

Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to

the Howard Lutnik transcripts from the deposition in front of Congress,

Mister Emmer. Question, Secretary Lutnik, I understand you've had a

long career, but can we just start by can you

briefly walk us through your professional career up until now?

Answer by Ludnik. Sure. I graduated from Haverford College in Pennsylvania,

and my first job was with Canter Fitzgerald and I

never had another job, So I stayed at the same

firm my entire career. And if you had asked me

or my family two years ago, would that be true,

I would have assumed it would have been for the

full amount of my career. And then I left Canter

Fitzgerald to join the Trump administration as the Secretary of Commerce.

So it's rather a simple career. One job since college

and then a second job working for the administration. Question.

Thank you, and again we appreciate your public service and

agreeing to testify voluntarily. Let's talk about your contact with Epstein,

and we appreciate the personal or the statement that you made,

but let's start from the beginning. When did you first

meet Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I first met Jeffrey Epstein when

his staff knocked on our door and invited my wife

and I to come next door for coffee. He lived

in the townhouse adjacent to ours, and then sometimes later

my wife and I went over to his house for coffee.

It was literally eight or ten steps next door. Question

and who was the staffer that knocked on your door? Answer? Well,

I don't know, and I didn't answer the door. I

have someone who works for me who answers the door.

Imagine that shit, all of these out of touch people.

I have someone that answers the door for me. Does

he scratch your nuts? Too? Question? So you were invited?

What happened when you showed up in mister Epstein's residence? Answer?

My best recollection is we walked next door, someone answered

the door. We went through his foyer, up a big

flight of stairs to his living room, and sat in

his living room and had coffee. Mister Grant, another investigator,

pipes in, excuse me, what year was that? Roughly, lut Nick,

this was two thousand and five. Grant, thank you. Back

to mister Emmer, question, and you said that you had

coffee with them. What was the nature of your conversation

with them during this coffee Answer I don't recall. Question

And approximately how long did this coffee last? Answer short,

A reasonably short amount of time, maybe ten fifteen minutes.

And then he offered us a tour of his house.

Question and I recognize that you touched on this in

your opening statement, But again, when did you purchase your property? Answer? So,

I purchased the property in ninety seven and then but

it was an unfinished property, meaning the residents were pigeons

and mice. I mean literally unfinished, I mean pigeons flying around.

So it required extensive building I wouldn't even say renovations.

It didn't have heating or an air conditioning system. It

was a raw structure. Question and you said you didn't

move into the property until two thousand and five. Correct answer,

that's right. Question. And in between the purchase and the

renovations you made, you had no contact with mister Epstein whatsoever?

Answer zero? Question What did you know about mister Epstein's

prior to this interaction? Answer? I didn't know of him.

I don't recall knowing anything about him. Question you had

no understanding of what his job was when you initially

met him. Answer, I did not, not that I recall

everything I say would be what I recall today. So

question and again you brought this up in your opening statement.

But this first interaction, you going to his home for coffee.

That's the interaction you described on the pod fourth one podcast.

Is that right? Answer? Yeah, And I went with my

wife next door. He invited my wife and die over

to welcome us to the neighborhood. Is what my recollection is, Emma.

And for the record, I'm referring to the October first,

twenty twenty five Podforce one podcast that you appeared on

as a guest with Miranda. The line which we'll discuss

in more detail shortly. So you have this coffee, what

happened next? Answer? He offered, would you like a tour

of the house? And we said sure, And then we

had a tour and we went across the hall where

you know, across from the living room is generally the

dining room. And he opened the door and there was

a massage table, and I saw his massage table and

that ended the tour. Question, So you did not see

the rest of the house. One room is what you're saying, answer,

one room, that's my recollection. Another investigator jumps in, mister spector,

Secretary Lutnick, you mentioned in your opening statement that he

demonstrated that mister Epstein demonstrated a clear lack of boundaries.

I think that was the word that you used. Are

you referring to the massage table in that? Butt Nick?

So we were in the living room. So I saw

the living room, and then we went and he opened

the door to the room across the hall, which was

what I assumed would be the dining room. But he

opened it and there was a massage table. And his

lack of boundaries was what he said. Specter, what did

he say? Lutnick? I asked him why I had a

massage table in the middle of his house. This is

the best of my recollection. It's not like precisely what

he said, this is my general recollection of something that's

twenty one years ago. So and I said, how often

do you have a massage? And he said, my best

recollection is he said every day, and the right kind

of massage. And he said it to me and my

wife standing next to me, and we looked at each

other and we left, mister Emmer for the record, what

did you interpret mister Epstein to mean when he said

the right kind of massage? Answer that it would become

some form of sexual nature. And that's what I assumed

it meant. Question And at this point did you ask

and the tour or you just said we're going to leave. Answer?

I don't remember precisely what we said, but we basically

excused ourselves and departed. Question. Did your wife ask mister

Epstein any questions related to the massage table? Answer? I

don't recall her speaking. No. Question. So on the podcast,

you said, after seeing the massage table in mister Epstein's

house and the six eight steps it took for you

and your wife to get back to your house, you decided,

and I'm quoting, that I will never be in the

room with that disgusting person ever. Again, Is that an

accurate characterization of the statements that you made on the podcast?

Answer by Lutnik. That is informal, in complete discussion that

my wife and I had as we walked back, the

point of which was when I discussed it with my

wife that I Howard Ludnik, would not have personal or

professional relationship with this person because he obviously doesn't have boundaries,

so just avoid them. I should avoid them. And that's

what we discussed. It's not verbatim what we said, because

this is twenty one years ago, but it's and it's

what I did. I avoided that person question, and I

believe my colleague may have been asking a similar question.

But that feeling that he was disgusting that was based

solely on interaction with Epstein after you saw the massage

table and asked him about it. Is that right? Answer?

It was based on the comment that was inappropriate and

gross to me and my wife. It was just off

putting and we left. Question. It's been reported, and we've

seen by the files released by the Department of Justice

that mister Epstein decorated his home with creepy and disturbing artwork.

Did you notice any unusual artwork at his residence when

you visited. Answer? The living room, which I saw, did

not have anything creepy or unusual in it. Question you

didn't notice any paintings or photos of nude women or

girls on it when you visited the property? Answer? No,

I would have noticed them, so no question. So I

want to talk more about your appearance on the podfors

one podcast and the statements you made. But first, generally,

how did this appearance come about? Answer? I don't know offhand.

You know it comes from your communications director. They set

it up. I don't know. Question and the topic of

Jeffrey Epstein was the first topic during this appearance. Did

you know that you would be discussing Jeffrey Epstein when

you agreed to go on the podcast? Answer? No, I

thought I was going to talk about September eleventh. Question,

So we talked about the statements that you made after

seeing the massage table that guy's gross, disgusting. You'll never

be in the room with him again, and you said

it was just a one and done. Is that a

fair characterization of your statements? Answer? No. I think the

right way to think about it is my wife and

I discussed that I would not be in the room

with him for professional, philanthropic, or social reasons, meaning don't

form the simplest way to say it, don't form a

personal or professional relationship with him, avoid establishing one because

he has no boundaries. Right. He said something inappropriate, just

avoid them, and I did. So. That was the discussion

with my wife. It was informal. I wasn't trying to

be precise. I was trying to have people understand that

I that my wife and I discussed that I would

not establish a personal or professional relationship with him, and

that I did not thereafter. I did not question during

the podcast, you dispute any characterization that you implied that

after the initial interaction that you would interact with mister

Epstein again. Answer, I would the characterization suggesting that I

couldn't be in the room that personally. It was a

discussion with my wife that I, as a man, should

avoid being with him because he has no boundaries and

that won't work well for me in my life if

I'm with someone with no boundaries, So avoid him. That

was the discussion I had with my wife. And I

did avoid him, So it was true what I said.

It wasn't that I couldn't be if he As the

members know, often people come to up to you and

you know, say hello to you in a big crowd.

I wasn't saying that couldn't occur. It didn't occur. But

the point I was making is I would not have

a personal or a professional relationship with them. I would

avoid it, and I did avoid it. Question, did you

interact with Epstein after the initial interaction that you described

on the podcast? Answer? I said my opening statement, I

had two in person interactions with them thereafter over the

next fourteen years, even though I lived adjacent to them.

Two interactions over the next fourteen years, both meaningless and inconsequential. Question,

and we will get into more specifics, but did you

visit Epstein's private island? Is that right? Answer? I did

visit Epstein's private island with my wife and children and

another couple and their four children in staff. Yes. Question.

I want to briefly talk about statements that you made

related to and I'm going to your statement was that

Epstein had an MO to give massages to influential individuals

and that he used blackmail for the record that was

based not on firsthand knowledge. Is that right answer? Correct question?

Trou Wolager. I'm sorry, counsel, would you mind, I'm just

letting us know where that statement's coming from Emmer during

the podcast. Urwilger, thank you, Emmer, and I'll be happy

to pull out the transcript. Urwilger, No, just curious, just

wanted to make sure that we're tracking where you're pulling

the statement from thank you redacted. We can't hear back here, Lutnick,

I was just speculating for a podcast. I had no

personal information. I was just speculating for a podcast. Emmer.

So for the record, sir, did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform

or represent to you that he was part of any

intelligence service of any nation, including the United States? Answer? No.

Question So how would you characterize your relationship with mister Epstein? Answer?

I had no personal or professional relationship with him. I

had two interactions in person that were meaningless and inconsequential.

I would say I had no relationship with him. Question

how often did you interact with Epstein in a personal capacity? Answer?

I met him once in two thousand and five. I

had two meaningless and inconsequential other personal interactions, and I

tried to think about this as many times as I can,

and I cannot think of any others, nor do the

document show any others. Question besides the in person interaction,

which again we'll talk about more specifically later, did you

email have phone calls with mister Epstein? Answer? I don't

recall ever having a phone call with mister Epstein, and

I think I had one set of email interactions with

mister Epstein personally that went meaning four were written by

me to him, but in one effectively one conversation. I mean,

I said A, he responded B. I wrote C, he

responded D. And I think that there were a total

of four in one day. Once question, for the record,

you've mentioned the visit to the island, the tour of

the town home. Did you ever visit Epstein's Palm Beach home,

Answer no. Did you ever visit Epstein's New Mexico ranch,

answer no. Questioned his Paris apartment, answer no question. Did

you ever visit any property owned or at least by

mister Epstein, answer no question. Did mister Epstein ever invite

you to any of his properties? Answer no question. Did

you ever fly on any of mister Epstein's private planes?

Answer no. Specter, and just for clarity on the record

you had besides the two interactions you discussed at Epstein's

New York home, did you ever visit that home at

any other time that he was not present? Lutnick No.

All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here,

and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're

going to pick up where we left off. All the

information that goes with this episode can be found in

the description box.