Tales from The Rock ‘n Roll Twilight Zone: Eerie Enigmas and Supernatural Secrets from Rock's Darkest Corners with Richard Syrett

Tales from The Rock ‘n Roll Twilight Zone: Eerie Enigmas and Supernatural Secrets from Rock's Darkest Corners, the New Book by Author Richard Syrett.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're live. Hi, this is William Ramsey. Welcome to

William Ramsey investigates on today's show of a very special

guest comes to us from Toronto, Canada. His name is

Richard Surrett. His last name is spelled s y r

e t T. And he's just published a book. I

read through it today. If you're watching this on YouTube

rumble x substack, you'll see the book cover, very interesting

book cover, and the title is Tales from the Rock

and Roll Twilight Zone and you can get it. It's

actually going to be available tomorrow. The full title is

Tales from the Rock and Roll Twilight Zone, Eerie Enigmas

and Supernatural Secrets from Rock's Darkest Corner. So this is

a great looking book and has a lot of information

I haven't read about in the past, and it will

be available tomorrow on Amazon. And Richard Sirett is not

just an author. He's also listen to him as a

podcast host or a streaming host on his show, Richard

Serette's Strange Planet. He's been doing that in the Toronto

airwaves for three deca decades and he's earned a reputation

as one of Canada's most compelling interviewers in the realm

of the unexplained. He's a master storyteller with a broadcaster's discipline.

He's built a career exploring the strange, the forbidden, and

the questions others are afraid to ask. And you'll see

some of the people that he's read and who he's

noted in the book, or people who've been on my show.

You'll see that once we kind of get into this.

He's also a regular guest host on Coast to Coast AM,

the most listened to late night radio program. And Again.

He is the creator and host of critically acclaimed podcast

Richard Serett's Strange Planet, and his television series The Conspiracy Show,

aired internationally for five seasons across Canada, Australia, Europe and Africa.

He's a sought after authority on high strangeness, so he's

like an ideal fit for my show. And he's also

appeared on many television programs including William Shatner's Weird Or What,

National Park, Mysteries, Freaking Counters, and Guya TVs Forbidden Technology

and Again. He is headquartered in Toronto and again. Today

we're going to talk about this book, Tales from the

rock and Roll Twilight Zone just published. So Richard Surrett,

Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: William, great to be here, Thanks for the invite. Excellent.

Speaker 1: So for people who are not familiar with you, haven't

heard you on your podcast or on Coast to Coast,

maybe you can just do an overview of your career

and then the research that led up to the publication

of this book.

Speaker 2: I guess an over thirty thousand foot view of my

career would look like a quilt, kind of a patch quilt.

Started Interrestrial rating in the early nineties, behind the scenes

as a producer what we used to call the chase

producer for current affairs, so I would, you know, track

down the guests and research the topics. And I was

also the call screener. For those old enough to remember

the TV show Fraser, I was Roz, the male version

of Roz, screening the calls. So that was sort of

my my entree into talk radio. I thought, originally I

was going to get into documentary television and this was

just kind of a well, I'll do this until something

better comes along. But I fell in love with the

medium talk radio and the immediacy of live radio. I

got my own show in two thousand and It didn't

start out as you know, sort of a high strange

and as it just evolved into that, and then after

nine to eleven, that just it just became I became

consumed by that. And I not in my nature to boast,

but I probably was one of the first broadcasters in

mainstream video or mainstream media for that matter, at least

in Canada who was sort of pulling on those threads

around nine to eleven, like within days, you know, what

do you mean? The Christine passport was found at the

foot of the World Trade Center building that belonged to

one of the hijackers. That doesn't make sense. And from

there I sort of took my bag of tricks to

various radio stations up and down the dial in Toronto.

I've been very fortunate. I've always worked in major market

radio and The Conspiracy Show started out as a radio show.

Within a couple of years it became a television show,

so I was doing both the radio and TV. And

then in let's say twenty eighteen, I produced, created, produced,

wrote and narrated a podcast. It was kind of documentary style.

It was called The Rock and Roll Twilight Zone, and

I produced forty episodes, and that podcast really forms the

basis and the inspiration for this book, Tales from the

rock and Roll Twilight Zone. I chose sixteen out of

the forty episodes and transcribed the actual episodes and then

preserve the the you know, the quotes and a lot

of the information from the great experts and journalists and

musicians and so forth that are that we're in the podcast,

they're in the book. But I rewrote the narration and

kind of beefed it up and gave it more of

a kind of a literary or a cinematic even feel.

So that's really my career in a nutshell, And someone

might say, in a nutshell indeed, And that's basically how

the book came together as well.

Speaker 1: Right, So it's like a mix on the Twilight Zone.

And there is just high strangeness.

Speaker 2: All over the rock and roll world.

Speaker 1: Like there's so many mysterious deaths, so many strange happenings

and all that stuff. So it's a rich mind or

vein to mind, so to speak, right.

Speaker 2: For sure, for sure, you know, And that's you know,

people often ask me since I've been promoting the book,

you know, why is that? Why is rock. Uh, you know,

such a rich vein to be mined. And and to me,

rock and roll is one of the great American cultural contributions,

along with blues and along with cinema and jazz and

so forth. But but the birth of rock and roll,

what is that? What they used to say, the blues

got together with the jazz, with jazz, and they had

a baby, and they called it rock and roll. But

it is it, it's it's such a kind of a

coalescing of so many different culture cultures. You had Appalachia,

and you had Cajun culture, and you had yes, you

had the you know, the the Delta blues, and you

had rhythm and blues and gospel and Negro spirituals and

and and all of the sort of the the cultures

that sort of came together in this amazing stew, if

you will. And so how could you not, given this

intersection or collision, if you will, of all these different

cultures with their with their myths and legends, how could

you not have this amazing you know, an amazing mix

of uh, with legends and mysteries and the unexplained. It's

it's the whole package.

Speaker 1: It really is, It really is an American rock and

roll is like almost like world culture now, but it

all goes back. If you talk to a lot of

people or a lot of musicians and guitar players, it

all starts with the African American guy in the Delta, right,

and Robert Johnson. Some people aren't familiar with his name,

but maybe that's a good place to start. Is the

mystery of him.

Speaker 2: It is. It's not rock and roll necessarily, but some

people refer to Robert Johnson as maybe the godfather or

the grandfather, the great grandfather of rock and roll. We're

talking about the nineteen thirties. He was a sharecropper or

the son of a sharecropper in Mississippi. And for someone

like Robert Johnson, you know, there weren't too many tickets

out of that life, which was primarily one of misery,

and one was to become a bluesman, to learn the

delta blues guitar and play jin joints all over the

Deep South. That could be, you know, a wonderful escape

from that lifestyle. And so that's what he wanted. But

Robert Johnson, by all accounts, was to be to be kind,

let's say, incredibly mediocre at his craft, and he used

to hang around some pretty established bluesman, but one in

particular by the name of Son House, and he tried

to pick up you know, fingerings and chords and different things,

but he quite frankly, he just didn't have it. And

at a certain point I think he became a bit

of an annoyance to these blues legends, really Sunhouse, and

he got kind of chased away eventually, and he disappeared

for about a year and a year later. According to

the legend, and you know history legend, the lines are

kind of blurred here, but according to the legend, Sunhouse

and his band are playing at a gin joint. They

go out into the parking lot for a smoke break

in between sets, and while they're out there, somebody has

jumped up on stage kind of an open mic night,

if you will, and they hear the most incredible blues

riffs and picking that they've ever heard, and they rush

into the gin joint and there on the stage is

this figure who's kind of he's got his back to

the audience and he's kind of hunched over his guitar,

and occasionally he'll turn around and the stage light will

catch his eyes. And there this strange white, glowing white.

It was and it was Robert Johnson. It was Robert Johnson,

this scrawnie kid who they chased out of their circle

a year earlier. And here he is on the stage,

and the audience is absolutely enthralled. And it was said

that he was hiding, he was turning his back to

the audience and hiding these secret fingerings and chords and

things that he had learned. Now according to the legend.

Now Robert Johnson never said this, he never denied it.

Sounhouse believed this was the case that Robert Johnson, on

a moonless night, met at a crossroads in Clarksdale, Mississippi,

and met the legendary figure we know as the devil

down in the deep health. They referred to him as

Old Scratch. And according to the legend, you turn your

back at the crossroads an old Scratch, You hand your

guitar over your left shoulder, and Old Scratch performs a

particular tuning on the guitar. You make your deal, You

make your pact that you will sell your soul and

he will give you fame and fortune for a limited time,

a limited time only. And that's how Robert Johnson became

this master bluesman. It was also said that he rehearsed

and took lessons from the devil in the local cemeteries

around Clarksdale. And this is how he became the legendary

blues man, Delta bluesman, Robert Johnson. And again he never

never said that this is what happened. He never denied it.

And he also incorporated some of these stories into his songs.

Of course, hell Hounds on My Trail and so forth,

and the Crossroads which inspired Eric Clapton and so many others.

Leonard skinnerd so many performed that song. Some of those

artists thought that song was cursed. And at a certain point,

I guess the contract ran out and Robert Johnson committed

kind of a rookie mistake. He went into a bar

one night, and he was kind of a notorious ladies man.

There were a lot of jealous husbands and boyfriends that

were very angry at Robert Johnson. He went into a

gin joint. He made a rookie mistake. He accepted a

drink from an open bottle, and whether that bottle was

laced with strychnine or arsenic were not really sure. But

Robert Johnson died on his knees, howling like a hell hound.

It took him many, many hours, like something like half

a day, you know, to finally expire. But it was

a very painful and horrible death. So that's the legend

of the Crossroads and Robert Johnson.

Speaker 1: It's an incredible story, and these motifs will like permeate

rock and roll forever. Early death poisoning packed great genius.

One of the interesting things about Johnson's I don't think

he was recorded very much, like we don't have that

many of his songs. I mean, I think there was

only one recording, and they are the eerious, strangest, most

unique songs. Like there he just was. He had something special.

Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2: Absolutely he did. You're right. There may be two or

three at best, but you're right not a lot of

recordings exist. Whether some of them were destroyed, I'm not sure.

But the remarkable thing again is I go back to this,

you know, one year he was at best mediocre, and

again that's being very kind, and then a year later

he is this, you know, master all to bluesman. Is

it possible? I suppose? Is it probable?

Speaker 1: No?

Speaker 2: So what happened there? That's, you know, the big question,

and I should if I can make a quick aside here,

because this is you know, people talk about the curse

of the crossroads, and this idea of the crossroads goes

way back, like even to ancient Greece. You know, they

would often bury getting into the medieval times, it would

bury people that were convicted of being witches at a crossroads.

They couldn't be buried on hallow ground, so they bury

them in the crossroads. But it's a very old legend.

But I over the years, I've done a number of

radio programs and podcasts about this very subject. And I hope,

I hope, I don't, you know, cause anything untoward to

happen on this broadcast or this stream, because on a

number of occasions, one I was interviewing a gentleman who's

in the in that chapter in the book, Matt Swain,

who's written about rock and roll ghosts and the ghosts

of country music. Anyway, I had him on that particular

podcast episode that inspired the chapter. And this was on

another occasion and I was recording for a podcast and

we did like an hour on Robert Johnson, and it

sounded great. The audio was great. I guess I made

a rookie mistake. I didn't check the recording before I,

you know, hung up the phone. In those days, I

did it over the phone using like a phone coupler,

and then it went into my Adobe edition or something. Anyway,

So I hung up the phone with with Matt Swain,

and I listened. I went to listen back, and the

entire hour was just garbled. It wasn't like distortion, it

wasn't like I had the you know, the levels up

too high. It just it was just, I wouldn't say

like it was playing backwards, maybe backwards and flipped on

its side. It was the weirdest thing I'd ever heard,

the entire six minutes. So eventually we had to re

record that Another time. I was doing the same topic

with a different guest, I think on Coast to Coast

AM and I was at that time, I was not

doing the Coast to Coast from this studio. I was

doing it from the local Toronto affiliate CFRB, and we

were right in the midst of talking about the Curse

of the Crossroads and Robert Johnson and back in La

where Coast to Coast emanates from Sherman Oaks, California, their

studio and in fact the whole building where the studio was.

The Internet went down and so I was kicked off

the air for like an hour. It happened a third time, well,

when I was doing a local Toronto radio station. It

was called The Conspiracy Show, and it was with my

late partner and collaborator, our Gary Patterson, who was a

noted rock historian. We used to call him the fox

Molder of rock. His fingerprints are all over this book,

They're all over the podcast. It was supposed to be

a terrestrial radio show before it was a podcast, but

he died unexpectedly back in May of twenty seventeen. Anyway,

one of the last conversations I had with Gary on

the radio same thing. We were going to talk about

his visit to the Crossroads, and this story makes it

into the book. And I could hear him but he

couldn't hear me at one point. At another point I

could hear him, but he or he could hear me

but I couldn't hear him. Anyway, it was crazy. So

there's it's got quite a track record, The Curse of

the Crossroads.

Speaker 1: That's the Eurie Enigma, and you can go to Clarksdale

and there's actually kind of a I don't know, a

statue or some kind of some type of a memorial

showing that where the crossroads is there, so I know

you can do that. It's upstate Mississippi. But I mean,

arguably Robert Johnson is the founder of the Delta Blues.

I don't know if that's really true. He's certainly one

of the most influential. Would you agree with that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't, I guess because he was sort of

the he was following in the footsteps of guys like Sunhouse,

but I guess Robert Johnson kind of eventually overshadowed all

of those people. So yeah, certainly, I guess would be

called the king of the Delta Blues. But then, of

course then we had, you know, people like Muddy Waters,

but Robert Johnson, it started with him. And the interesting

thing is, even though it wasn't rock and roll, he

was twenty seven when he passed, so he was kind

of the inaugural member of the twenty seven Club. But

nobody knew about the twenty seven Club. We didn't have

there wasn't a pattern of musical artists dying at the

age of twenty seven. Really until I guess sixty nine

with Brian Jones, and then the following year Jimmy Hendrix,

Janis Joplin all twenty seven, and then the following year

Jim Morrison. Four in a row of the you know,

four giants from classic rock, all aged twenty seven. But

Robert Johnson, people forget, was twenty seven.

Speaker 1: It's absolutely incredible stuff. And all this stuff is there

because I think Robert Johnson was and there there are

similarities between Brian Jones and Robert Johnson in that they

kind of took instruments and played them in an eerie,

enigmatic way. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2: Well, I know that one of the things that is

notable of Brian Jones is that he, it is said,

could pick up a guitar and master it, like in

a couple of hours. He would pick up a sitar

for example. A lot of people credit George Harrison with

introducing the guitar into popular music. Maybe that's true. I'm

not sure of the timing, but I know Brian Jones

was also interested in the sitar and introduced it into

some of the early Stones recordings. But he had that ability.

Brian Jones also, you know, was quite a ladies man

and in fact, I think he sired several illegitimate children

before he was nineteen. So he was a bit of

a what is the expression the British use, a bit

of a rounder. Let's say he was a rogue. He

was not easy to be around at times. Genius it

can be difficult to live with, particularly when he got

into the cups. So yeah, I think there are quite

a few parallels between Robert Johnson and Brian Jones.

Speaker 1: And he had a mysterious passing. I mean, according to

legend or the story is, he drowned mysteriously in a

pool right.

Speaker 2: He was living, he got out of London, he was

being harassed by the police. According to one story, there's,

you know, two sides of the story. Then there's the

truth perhaps, but the one According to one story, the

police had it out for Brian Jones. Well, they had

it out for all of these long haired musicians. They

didn't like the influence, the establishment didn't like the influenced

these young upstarts from London were having on their children,

and so they headed in for them a little bit.

So according to the one story, Brian Jones, they planted drugs,

the police planted drugs, and so he had a criminal record,

and so he decided to get out of London. He

was also being squeezed out of the Rolling Stones, primarily

because he wasn't a songwriter, and that's the way the

industry was moving. It was fine in the early days

of the Rolling Stones were primarily a cover band, and

what a cover band they were. I mean, they sort

of reimagined, you know, Chuck Berry and Little Richard and

Muddy Waters and all of these great African American artists,

and so that was fine to a certain point. But

then it was decided you had to write your own music.

You had to have a lyricist and a composer. Brian

Jones was neither of those things, unfortunately, so he was

being marginalized. So he got out of London and moved

to the estate of the great British writer A. A. Milne,

who wrote, of course, the Winnie the Pooh books, created

these wonderful characters, Christopher Robin and so forth. And so

he bought that house and was visited by the Rolling

Stones co founders Keith Richards and McJagger. In late June

I believe to tell Brian that he was out of

the band, primarily because they were getting ready to embark

on a North American tour and because of Brian's drug record,

he couldn't get a visa, so he was of no

use to them, aside from the fact that again he

was heavy into the cups and pills, and even when

he showed up, which was rare in the latter stages

at the recording studio, he would take three hours to

restring his guitar. Sometimes the recording engineers were instructed not

even to bother plugging his guitar into the amp because

they were just trying to keep him busy and go

through the motions. Brian was of no further use to

the Rolling Stones, So Mick and Keith make their way

down to Sussex to Cotchford Farm and tell Brian that's it,

you're out of the band, and he just sort of

spiraled down from there. He took it all in stride.

He supposedly had it in mind that he was going

to form some super group after he got the boot.

He was going to team up with Eric Clapton and

John Lennon and maybe Jimmy Hendrix and formed the super band.

Of course, it never it never came to fruition. He

had performed on stage for the last time, you know,

months and months earlier, so he's in this downward spiral.

The night of July third, he's got quite a quite

an ensemble of people gathered around him, including you know,

current girlfriends, former girlfriends, hangers on, a nurse who was

there primarily to keep Brian company because he absolutely hated

being alone. There was also this crew of tradesmen who

he just never could get rid of. They were constantly

at the house. He had hired them to renovate the

Cochford farm, but these these individuals were on they were

on a grift. They were looking to take as much

money from Brian Jones as they could. They saw what

fragile state he was in, that he was rarely sober,

and they just they wouldn't leave. And they were constantly arguing.

And the head of that crew was a guy by

the name of Frank Thoroughgood, and he and Brian got

into some titanic verbal arguments. There were times when it

looked like it was going to come to fisticuffs. Perhaps

it did on this particular night, and it was a

cover up. But yes, Brian was found underneath the diving

board at the deep end of the swimming pool in

the fetal position, and there was what I one of

the themes in the book, I think particularly section three,

which is called killer Riffs and I reinvestigate the deaths

of Brian and Jimmy Hendrix and Elvis and Kirk Cobain.

One of the common threads here is this rush to judgment.

You can just imagine the police sort of you know,

checking off the boxes rock musician given to drink and drugs. Yeah,

that's you know, accidental drowning or in this case, death

by misadventure. That was the official cause of death, death

by misadventure, accidental drowning. A lot of loose threads, shall

we say. Frank Thoroughgood I mentioned the head of this crew,

who is kind of a volatile individual. Allegedly there's no

public record of this, but allegedly people who were surrounding

him on his deathbed claim that he confessed to getting

into a fight with Brian that night, whether he held

him around the neck a little too hard, whether he

held him under the water, whether he struck him and

Brian fell into the water. We were not really sure.

It's a little vague. It's kind of lost now in

the myth mists of time. Whether Thoroughgood was being genuine,

whether that the people that are recounting this alleged deathbed

confession are being honest, we don't know, but that's floating

out there. We also know that there was another kind

of shady character on the scene that night. His name

is Tom Keelock. Tom Keylock was the fixer for the

Rolling Stones. Most celebrities and big stars and musicians have

a fixer, you know, if something goes goes wrong, if

you know there's scandal, they have a fixer to I

don't know, strong arm up a newspaper reporter to make

sure you know, the story goes in a certain narrative

and so forth. That was Tom Keylock. But he also

was kind of a jack of all trades and he

did lots of things well again, a bit of a grifter.

Keith Richards figured him out at a certain point that

he was skimming and told him hit to hit the road.

So tom Keylock's Tom Keylock decides to head on down

to Cotchford Farm and attach himself like a lamprey eel

to Brian Jones and maybe see if he can, you know,

squeeze some more blood from a stone. No pun intended,

and Tom Keylock was there that night, acting very suspicious

when they finally pulled Brian Jones from the water and

he was laid out on the pool deck for hours

and hours. In fact, I think it was almost daybreak

by the time the ambulance got there to take his

body away. There was Tom Keylock burning Brian's clothes and

some of his personal effects in a bonfire. Now it

gets even stranger because Tom Keylock's brother, Frank Keylock, was

a detective with Scotland Yard and it is also claimed

by a number of researchers, Jeffrey Giuliano and a fine

gentlemen from the Netherlands who co authored a book with

Terry Rawlings on who Murdered? It was called Who Murdered

Christopher Robin sort of a take on AA Millen and

Brian Jones living there. He says that there was an

undercover policeman at Cotchford Farm that night and for some

time whether he had hidden in and amongst the workers

were not sure, but that may explain this cover up

if there was, for example, manslaughter, manslaughter was involved, or

murder in the second degree or first degree murder, and

it had gone to trial, all of those witnesses would

have been subpoenaed and had to testify in court. Meanwhile,

you've got this undercover cop there. We don't know why

he was there. Was he looking for drugs? Was he

spying on Brian Jones. We're not really sure, but that

may have been the reason they had to cover up

this death. Because it had gone to court, this undercover

cop would have been unveiled as it were. One more

thing that's very strange about this case, and that is

that an accidental drowning such as this, the autopsy would

have been handled by the local medical examiner, at least

that's what they're called in the United States. I don't

know what they called him in Great Britain, So it

would have been a medical examiner from Sussex, where Cotchford

Farm was located, but it wasn't. In fact, the person

who performed the autopsy and quickly announced or pronounced that

it was death by missing venture was none other than

the personal physician of the Prime Minister of Great Britain

at the time, Harold Wilson. So that's how high up

the ladder this alleged cover up goes. Why would the

Prime Minister appoint his own personal physician to handle the autopsy?

Does it have something to do with the undercover policeman

that was on the scene. Was Tom Keylock at the

Rolling Stones fixer. Was he relying on his brother at

Scotland Yard, Frank key Lock, to help cover this up?

We may never know at this point. It's been nearly

sixty years after all, but it's.

Speaker 1: One of those eerie enigmas that surround these rock and

roll stars is that they're surrounded by a lot of lampreeze,

like you said, and strange people who don't like their

politics or their cultural influence. I mean, it's the same

old tale like Elva's and all these other people. They're

seen as culturally degrady, degrading or something like that. So

you see that same theme with all these early deaths

and things like I here on the side and I

saw that you had the great Cyril Weck was also

investigated the Jones death, and he had his own I mean,

I think his analysis correct, like you could have just

swam to the corner of the pool. Whatever he had right,

it's not that hard.

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and it was. Brian Jones was asthmatic, so

it was speculated while he had an asthma attack, what

is it at one stroke to either side of the

pool or you grab onto the diving board. But Bill Wyman,

a former Rolling Stones bassist now retired, of course, it

tells a story in the book of being on tour

with Roling Stones and he was of all the Stones,

he was closest to Brian Jones. To this day, he's

very up set the way that Jones, who was really

the heart and soul, the founder of the band. He

gave the band the name the Rolling Stones, all of

the swager, all of the fancy clothes that Mick Jagger

has sort of taken that mantle on. That was all

Brian Jones. But you can't have the you can't have

the guitarist as the you know, front and center, as

the flamboyant when it has to be the lead singer,

right in a rock and roll band. So but Bill

Wyman tells the story of touring with the band in

Australia and they went down to the beach I think

they were in Sydney and the waves were particularly rough.

Nobody wanted to go in the water except Brian Jones.

He had no fear of the water. He was an

incredibly strong swimmer. He swam on the high school swim team.

He was a great diver. So, you know, that's it's

very questionable as to whether, even in the in the

throes of an asthma attack, that he would just simply,

you know, sink and wind up in the fetal position,

looking very calm, almost you know, like he'd fallen asleep

at the bottom of the pool.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very strange, super suspicious, and much like these

other but the story that came out as accidental drowning,

death by misadventure. That's what the public understood, at least

that's the public story, much like Hendricks who supposedly just

took too many sleeping pills and died, right like, that's

the cover story. There's no nobody really questioned that publicly

as far as I know.

Speaker 2: That's right. Well, so he's in notting Hill, a very

nice neighborhood in London, and he's staying at this American

hotel with his girlfriend and Monica Daneman, and he's getting

ready to leave and perform at the Isle of Right

Music Festival. Of course, he doesn't make it there. On

September eighteenth, nineteen seventy, he allegedly takes a handful of

Barbaikwits and drinks a lot of red wine, and that

cocktail causes him to aspirate on his own vomit, basically

dies of asphyxia. That's the official story. Monica Daniman wakes up,

finds him unresponsive, calls an ambulance. They caught him away

to Saint Mary Abbert, Saint Mary's Abbot Hospital in London,

and the attending physician who went on the record almost

immediately this again is you know, in the early early

hours after this event in nineteen September of nineteen seventy

and remarked, how Jimmy Hendrix and they tried for I

think half an hour to revive him, but he was gone.

His hair was soaked in red wine, his clothes were

soaked in red wine, His lungs were filled with red wine.

No red wine in his stomach, which is odd. It

was as if he had been drowned in red wine.

So this this physician put that out there, but it

just for whatever reason, never gained traction or was you know,

people were encouraged to you know, look the other way.

That's a conspiracy theory. He was a rock star, he

was a drug taker. What else do you need to know?

Move along, nothing to see here, folks of.

Speaker 1: The maybe the second greatest guitarist of all time, next

for Robert Johnson, or maybe the first. I don't know.

I think he's considered the greatest rock guitarist of all time.

So but like it's an open and shutcase of like

this incredible talent who went on to have a group,

could have had a great life life of luxury and

fame and fortune.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just beginning, just beginning to take off,

you know, like just blaring across or flaring across the

sky like a comet. He'd only really come on the

scene maybe four years earlier. Discovered in Greenwich Village at

the Cafe Wah by Chas Chandler, who was the bass

player for the Animals Eric Burdon. The Animals Eric Burdon

also looms large in this in this chapter. We can

get into that if you'd like, in a moment. But

the rising sun, right, that's right, that's right. And Chas

Chandler discovered him a Cafe Wah. He called his buddy

who was also the road manager for the animals and

would later become the road manager for Tina Turner, I

Cantina Turner and Jimmy Hendricks. And his name was James

Tappy Wright, who I interviewed for the podcast and he's

in the book as well. He since passed on a

couple of years after I interviewed him, but Chaz asked

Tappy right to come down to the Cafe wa to

check it out, to check out Jimmy Hendrix, and they

both agreed. You know, this guy's got the royal jelly.

So they took him to London. They figured, let's he's

going to make it big in England first, which he did,

and then he came back to the United States and

he got saddled up with a very shadowy figure. Where

have we heard that word before? His shadowy figure, and

his name was Mike Jeffrey. He became his manager, and

Mike Jeffrey was former British intelligence. Whether he was m

I five or I six, not one hundred percent sure.

It is said that he served in the in British

intelligence during the Suez Crisis in nineteen fifty six, he

would tell anybody, you know, once he got into the

cups loose lips. He would tell people about his time

and intelligence and how he was one of those guys

who would tell you, you know, I can kill you with

my baby finger, and people believed him. He was kind

of a sinister guy. He had a reputation. James Tappy

Wright was friends with Mike Jeffrey, but he said at

the same time he was afraid of him. A lot

of people were afraid of him. Jimmy was afraid of him,

and he was kind of like a Svengali or a

rescue didn't he just he had Jimmy Hendrix. Jimmy was

like wrapped around his finger, and he was afraid to

leave him. He was afraid to have what would happen

if he left him. But at the same time it

was kind of an abusive kind of relationship because Mike

Jeffrey would tour Jimmy Hendrix's NonStop. He would just grind

him into the ground and Jimmy didn't know whether he

was coming or going. And if you look at it,

some of his tour schedules, they were very strange, like

there wasn't any pattern you would think, Okay, we're gon

We're gonna tour in New York and then maybe we'll

go down we'll go up to Buffalo, and then we'll

go over to Cleveland and we'll work our way into

the Midwest, and that he was all over the map,

as if Mike Jeffrey was deliberately trying to tire him,

to exhaust him with with travel and and NonStop touring

and and jim and people around Jimmy, you know, were

trying to get Jimmy's attention, like Juma Sultan, who played

who was a percussionist who played with Jimmy's last band

at Woodstock, Gypsy's Sons and Rainbows. I think the band

the name of the band. He wasn't with the Jimmy

Hendricks Jimmy Hendricks experience. When he performed at Woodstock they

were finished, but Jima Sultan, who's in the book, said,

you know, they they tried to pull Jimmy aside and

tell him, you know, Mike Jeffrey, man, he's just he's

he's no good for you. It was almost like he

was performing MK Ultrick type mind control on on Jimmy.

He would There was a very famous story of Jimmy

performing in New York and after the performance he was

kind of lured away by someone with a promise of

some of the best cocaine in town. And instead of

you know, finding his score, he ended up in the

back of a van, was whisked away to an apartment.

He was held hostage, he was kidnapped, and it later

turned out that that kidnapping was arranged by Mike Jeffrey. Mike, So,

Jimmy Hendrix is being held by these mobsters in an

apartment somewhere in Manhattan. Meanwhile, Mike Jeffrey arranges with one

of his buddies who knows some wise guys in New Jersey,

and they're sent to this apartment. Miraculously, they knew exactly

where Jimmy was being held, and the crew of mobsters

from New Jersey freed Jimmy Hendrix from the clutches of

these New York mobsters, and Mike Jeffrey rides in like

the night on shining and shining armor and looks like

he's the hero for rescuing Jimmy Hendrix. Jimmy later learned

and Tappy tells his that Mike Jeffrey arranged for that kidnapping,

so that again Jimmy would feel entirely dependent on Mike

Jeffrey for his safety and his well being. It was

another incident where Jimmy Hendrix flew into Toronto. Here this

would have been I think in early early nineteen seventy,

the Border and Customs of People found drug paraphernalia in

his luggage. Now, at this time Jimmy Hendrix claimed, and

I believe this is the case, that he was clean,

he was no longer taking heroin. He turned to his

girlfriend at the time, Kathy, etching him and looking totally

bewildered when when they found the drug paraphernalia in his

luggage and said, you know, I've been clean this I

didn't put this here again in swoops Mike Jeffrey. Now,

keeping in mind nineteen seventy in Canada, you get busted

like that, you could be looking at a fair lengthy

prison sentence. Mike Jeffrey, perhaps with his intelligence connections, was

able to get Jimmy Hendrix off Scott Free, Scott Free,

and again Mike Jeffrey looking very much like the hero,

and he would say things like this to Jimmy, you know,

Jimmy without me you're lost. You know you're going to

be thrown to the wolves. Mike Jeffrey did this perhaps

because he knew his contract with Jimmy was expiring. In fact,

it was going to expire, I believe at the end

of nineteen seventy, and Jimmy Hendrix was Mike Jeffrey's cash cow.

He may have been if he wasn't his only client.

He was his most certainly his most important client by

a long shot. And Mike Jeffrey was indebted to the mob.

He owed them a lot of money, and without Jimmy

Hendrix he would have been in big trouble. He would

have been in big trouble. So is that the motive. Perhaps?

Speaker 1: There's so many stories about these guys, these artists, getting

entangled with their promoters or their producers and then ending

up unfortune mysteriously dead. It's actually crazy how many stories

there are where they're having negotiations with their producers and

then things go awry.

Speaker 2: So it's, uh, yeah, it's almost it's almost the rule

and not the exception. I mean, when you look at

the history of rock music from let's say I don't know,

the starting off in the mid nineteen fifties, and it

probably predates this with other genres of music. But the

record industry, it seems, has always been like the wild West,

and you have some very unscrupulous people. You had record

labels that were run by essentially mafia mobsters. There's a

celebrated story of I think it was Maverick Records. I

did the Bobby Fuller story Bobby Fuller and the Fuller

Five in the for the podcast, but it didn't make

it into this cold Maybe there'll be a volume two.

But the owner of Maverick Records was just known for

shaking artists down. In fact, if you didn't get his way,

he would he would hold you over the balcony, you

know from the fourth or fifth story by the Legs

Records Records, the thing, Yeah, until he got his way.

So you know, the the record producers, the A and

R people, the owners. I mean, it goes on to

this day. You know, he talked to people who got

out of the industry if they got out with their life,

and you know, they tell a lot of the same stories.

It's however, they were used and abused and everything was

taken from them and stolen and they ended up with

with nothing. Or a small fraction of what they deserved,

and that was certainly the case with Bobby Fuller.

Speaker 1: Did in flames in Hollywood, and like right in the

center of Hollywood, right right off Hollywood Boulevard.

Speaker 2: Imber they did. They found his partially burned body in

the back seat of his car in the parking lot

of the hotel where he was staying with his mother

and brother. I believe, and get this, it was ruled

a drug overdose.

Speaker 1: So you can see these shady medical examiners show up

everywhere in these deaths, almost like they're put into place

to affirm whatever was going on.

Speaker 2: Again, it's another common thread.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so hen Hendrix, I have, like nobody believe.

People believed that there was that cover story, but nobody

believed it later on that he would actually oh do

or kill himself like I've heard stories like people shove

those sleeping pills down his throat like that.

Speaker 2: Well, Mike Jeffrey was familiar with a particular kind of

torture we now call it waterboarding, where let's imagine Brian

Jones was sorry Jimmy Hendricks was given these barbituates. There's

some indication that they were given to him by Monica

Danam and these were a German type of barbituate. That's

an allegation, never been proven. Monica Danaman no longer with us.

But so that these barbituates basically left Jimmy in a

very sort of subdued and vulnerable state. And then whether

Mike Jeffrey was there that night, we're not sure whether

he had hired goons come in and basically holds Jimmy

down and pour the red wine, maybe down his nose

or beat down his throat. Again, think of waterboarding in

a particular way, so that he essentially drowned. He essentially drowned.

And I should point out again with the motive. You know,

why would Mike Jeffrey kill his cash cow. Well, he

had taken out a life insurance policy on Jimmy Hendrix.

Now it was standard for record companies to take out

insurance on their artists, but Mike Jeffrey also took out

a life insurance policy on his client, Jimmy Hendricks.

Speaker 1: All right, so there's the incentives and everything like that,

and the jealousy and somebody leaving like that's the same

thing I think Cobain was in like a very contentious

contract debate with Jeffen and his and his other bandmates too, right,

wasn't something like that?

Speaker 2: I believe that's the case. Although with the Kurt Cobain story,

all roads seemed to lead to Courtney Love his wife

allegedly reportedly none of these are proven. Their allegations never

been proven in court.

Speaker 1: But your speculation, we're speculating right now.

Speaker 2: Yes, although the you know, there's some pretty compelling evidence.

In fact, it's kind of timely. Just a few months

ago there was an independent forensic research team that petitioned

the Seattle Police Department or the King County Medical Office

to reopen the case, and a lot of the a

lot of the evidence that they put forward in this

report is contained in my chapter on Kurt Cobain, which

is called The Needle, the Barrel, and the Die and

the Lies. Kurt supposedly took his life by sticking a

shotgun in his mouth, even though he had reportedly three

times the lethal amount of heroin in his blood at

the time, which would have rendered him unconscious. How he

managed to stick the the business end of a shotgun

in his mouth. I've held a shotgun. I'm not a hunter,

but I've held shotguns in my hand. It's a very

cumbersome weapon. You know, think about the long barrel. Plus

to that long barrel, there was a flash suppressor attached

to the weapon. That's another six inches. How does he

turn that around? Stick it in his mouth and with

his other with his arm, managed to pull the trigger.

Maybe if he had taken a shoe off, maybe he

could reach it with his leg and his big toe.

But both his shoes were found were on. We're on

him when he died, so that that whole story just

I'm sorry it stinks to high Heaven.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's just another sketchy tale. Like it's just

it is the enigma. It is the eerie enigma. All

these guys left. The interesting thing is like they've all

met these strange deaths. They are so influential, all these

guys who died young at twenty seven, the Stones and

Nirvana and Hendricks. It's got to be one of the

I think he's still one of the best selling artists

of today. Like it's like Bob Marley or something. Who's

another mysterious death.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Marley I talk about on the podcast I did,

and I dedicated an episode to the CIA and their

interest in Jamaica at that time. They were concerned about

Jamaica falling into the Communists, the clutches of communist Cuba,

or maybe even the Soviet Union. They had a left

leaning prime minister at the time. Bob Marley tried to

sort of walk that tight rope become, you know, to

be apolitical. He didn't want to be associated with the

left or the right, but both sides tried to use

him for their furtherance of their causes, and and there

was a perception that Bob Marley was maybe I believe

it was Prime Minister Many at the time, that he

was simpatico with the left leaning Manly. The CIA couldn't

tolerate that, where they perhaps involved in his death or

at least an assassination attempt that nearly cost Marley his life.

It's in the on the podcast didn't make it into

the book. If I could just very quickly, just before

I forget, at the end of each chapter is a

QR code, and you can listen to the episode of

the Rock and Roll Twilight's Own podcast that inspired that chapter.

The podcast currently not available anywhere at the moment. There

is no platform where you can find it, but if

you get the book, the QR code is there and

you can listen to the actual podcast episode. Thank you,

I just wanted to do.

Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's really cool. It's a really cool element

of your book. I haven't seen it like that. There's

one other book I saw that had that QR code,

but your cure code goes to an audio instead of

like another segment of the book or something online, so

people can check that out. It's a very well crafted

book that fit and finish. It's really nice to thank

you with a lot of pictures and stuff as well.

We are at the fifty to one minute markets past

very quick. There's so much more information this book, guys.

There's a whole section about the Beatles, Leonard skinnerd More

on Altamont, which is the story in and of itself.

There's just a lot of great lore in how strange

the rock and roll world has been, really the kind

of some of the unknown history is memorialized in this book.

Do you have time for a few questions and comments?

Speaker 2: I would, I would, I would love it.

Speaker 1: I welcome it.

Speaker 2: Thank you, William.

Speaker 1: Great, here we go. Let's see all American men as

ask Eric about Eric Burden knowing Hendricks was murdered. Did

Eric Burden think he was murdered right away?

Speaker 2: Initially, Eric Burdon, I should point out Monica Daneman, her

girlfriend was dating Eric Burdon at the time, and at

the time of Jimmy Hendrick's death, Eric Burden and his

girlfriend were also in London. So after calling the ambulance,

or maybe even before she called the ambulance, her first

or second call was to Eric Burden and asked him

to come over and sort of help maybe clean things

up a little bit, whatever that means. Now, Eric Burden

found what he thought was a suicide note, and he

told reporters almost immediately after Jimmy's Jimmy was pronounced dead

that he believed Jimmy had committed suicide that caused quite

a few because that would have invalidated the life insurance

policies from the record company, and we're talking millions of dollars.

Mike Jeffy wouldn't have been too happy about that either,

since he also had a life insurance policy and if

you have, if there's a suicide, that invalidates the life

insurance policy. Eric Burdon backtracked very quickly, but he should

have anyway, because he quickly realized that what he found

was not a suicide note. And this has some parallels

with Kurt Cobaine as well. What he found where was

Jimmy sort of noodling, maybe writing a new noodling some

song lyrics, talking sort of or writing very metaphysically, and Eric,

in a rush to judgment, sort of assumed that it

was Jimmy saying goodbye. It wasn't the case. It wasn't

a suicide note. And Eric had to sort of, you know,

do a one to eighty and go on the I

couldn't say no, I was mistaken. It wasn't a suicide Yeah.

Speaker 1: And I think my understanding is Hendricks not only was

a great musician, but he was his own lyricist, so

a lot of those lyrics were his.

Speaker 2: My understanding, so yes, yeah, he was a terrific I

think he was a terrific lyricist. I don't think he

gets the credit.

Speaker 1: I think that's right. I think you're right. He's just

a creative genius. Rodney Adderson says, I ordered this book

over a month ago. Won't be long now, Hello Richard,

you are the best.

Speaker 2: So oh, thank you God.

Speaker 1: Bless you, neighbor of mine, Pamela says, new Jimmy, she says,

the sweetest man. He did not, oh d he didn't

take that drug. He was still she was still angry

at those years later.

Speaker 2: So no.

Speaker 1: Council estate asks what about Bonham accident or red Rum?

Do you have any comments on that.

Speaker 2: I don't get into John's death except in a chapter

on Alistair Crowley, which is I know a subject near

and dear to you, William, But I focused mainly on

Jimmy Page's obsession with Alistair Crowley, the Crowley's selection of

Bolskin House on the remote shores of lock Nest to

perform He's a Bramulin operation, this occult ritual to summon.

Perhaps well, he wouldn't have called them demons, but I

sort of see things to a biblical lens. I would

call them demons, and he didn't. He didn't properly bind

these entities, and he was suddenly called off to Paris,

and so strange things started happening, happening at Boluskin House,

very peaceful people suddenly going on a drunken rampage and

murdering people. Along. Several decades later, along comes Jimmy Page

and buys the home he's absolutely obsessed with with Crowley

collected all of his works, opened a bookstore in London

dedicated to Alistair Crowley. He sort of cajoled the rest

of the band, minus John Paul Jones who took a pass,

but he summoned Robert Plant and John Bonham to the

house Bullskin House, and they made a pact perhaps or

a ritual. They were all assigned sigils. And then, of

course we know the horrible string of misfortune that befell

the band, including Robert Plant's near fatal car accident while

on vacation in Greece, the death of his baby's son,

which is horrible, Carrick Jimmy Page becoming almost a hopeless

heroin addict for a time, and then and of course

culminating with the death of John Bonham in nineteen eighty.

I don't get into the specifics of John Bonham's death, however,

that's a tragic death.

Speaker 1: He drank a lot. They were around. He died while

the band members were around. They just didn't when somebody

wasn't just watching him sleep, I think is my understanding. Image.

Thirty asked what level was Hendrix's involvement with the occult

or magic or whatever. Do you have any thoughts on

I don't.

Speaker 2: I didn't explore that as so much as focused on

on on his death. You know a lot of a

lot of musicians sort of dabbled in it, and uh

for for many, I mean even Alistair Crowley. I mean

you can correct me. You know far more about Croly

than I do. I mean he I think he played around.

He loved that. The image is, you know, the world's

most dangerous man, and the and the and you know,

the beast and and so forth. I think he reveled

in that. I don't. I don't think he really paid

too much attention to Christianity. I don't think he saw

himself as a Satanist. Uh. Again, from a Christian's perspective,

they would say, yes he was. But a lot of

these people dabbled in the occult. Maybe it was for

marketing purposes or branding. You know, you gotta you've got

to Ozzy Osbourne, I think, is a classic example in

Black Sabbath. Ozzy Osbourne was not a Satanist, or so

he said he but it was just the thing to

do in rock and roll. If you. If you're going

to be anti establishment, you've you know, you got to

put a put a put the image of Bapha met

on your album. That's going to sell, you know, to

the kids, because they want to give the big finger

to anything establishment, including the church. But I contend that

even if you're not necessarily being sincere in your beliefs

it is, it remains an invitation these I believe in

an unseen world, and when you invite certain things into

your life, even if it's your being tongue in cheek

about it, I think it can be a dangerous thing.

Speaker 1: I agree. Lizzie asks Richard, do you have any insights

into the tragedy of Bad Finger. Those guys got screwed

so badly? Do you have any thoughts on that.

Speaker 2: If I haven't covered them in the book or in

the podcast. But again, just an incredible streak of misfortune,

I believe. Is it two members or three committed suicide?

Speaker 1: Wow, Council of State, hang on and need to get

a pen and write it all down. The good news

is you can just buy the book Council of State.

It's available tomorrow. You can do it. And then Lizzie

follows up with what about Michael Hutchins. Do you know

anything about his in excess?

Speaker 2: Again, I believe that was another tragic suicide with Michael

Hutchins in access. Yeah, there's so many stories. Even though

I covered forty on the podcast, I didn't even scratch

the surface. So you know that'd be another great one

to look into. Sorry, I can't offer any more.

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of information in this book we

did not cover and it is available. Is there anything

you'd like to wor at the hour market? Is anything

you'd like to add or anything I missed before we

wrap it up?

Speaker 2: Well, the book is dedicated to my late collaborator and

partner R. Gary Patterson, who died coincidentally on the fiftieth

anniversary of the release of Sergeant Pepper May seventeenth, twenty seventeen.

The album was released in the UK and on May seventeenth,

nineteen sixty seven. But I'm sorry May twenty six. My apologies.

But the last chapter in the book is about the

last phone ca all I had with our Gary Patterson,

and it takes on kind of a supernatural paranormal tone,

and if people read the book, they'll they'll find out why.

But it's it's it's a phone call. A week doesn't

go by it. I don't think about it, even though

it's been nearly ten years. I am conflicted by it.

I don't pretend, you know, to know for certain what happened.

But let me just leave you with this. I hate

it when people say, well, you have to buy the

book to find out. I'm going to give you this r.

Gary Patterson and I talked on the phone. It was

late spring. It doesn't get dark up here until about

eight thirty. At that time of year, it was pitch blackout.

I'm guessing it was well after nine o'clock. Later, I

found out Gary passed away that very same day, at

around five o'clock in the afternoon. Wow.

Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing. I've heard stories of that, like people

who've passed on contacting people away or something, you know,

either through a dream or some kind of signal. They

felt like something happened, there was some kind of reaching out.

Speaker 2: This was a lengthy phone call, and we had a

lengthy conversation, and I wandered around the house with my

phone to my ear, and looking back, the whole thing

is very surreal. I was like drifting from room to

room almost like I was in a dream state. When

I found out the next morning that he had died.

I rushed upstairs. My wife, the mighty Aphrodite I call.

It was just getting out of bed, and without me

prompting her, I mean, she saw there was something wrong.

She said, what's wrong? I said, I just found out

Gary died, and without me prompting her, it's kind of confirmation.

She said, you were just talking to him last night,

And I said, I thought so. I looked on my

phone on my recents. There there was no incoming call

from from Gary or anybody. I didn't talk to anybody

on the phone that day, no ingoing or outgoing calls.

And yet she remembered me being on the phone. I

remembered me being on the phone. We both miss remembering things. Hey, uh,

you know, I don't pretend you know to know the answer.

It's it's all possible, but it's as best as I

can remember. I talked to our Gary Patterson probably at

least three or four hours after he passed.

Speaker 1: That's amazing. And he's written like three or four books, right,

Hell Lownds on their trail?

Speaker 2: Yes, Les, Yeah, he wrote the definitive sort of rebuttal

for the Paul is Dead legend. It was called I

Am the Paul Was the The Walrus was Paul. That

was sort of the seminal book on the whole Paul

is Dead legend, which I also cover in the book.

Yeah he was. He was a fond of information. I

miss him. I miss him.

Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, sorry for your loss, But that that's still debatable.

People are still talking about Paul is Dead or Paul

falls the switch and the change, the change in the Beatles.

So you've got a whole quarter of the book on

that we didn't even glance into. So people can check

out that your research on that, and where can they

find Richard Surrett's Strange Planet.

Speaker 2: Strange Planet dot c A. We've got a funny a

funny u r l up here dot com. It's dot

ca a Strange Planet dot ca a. The podcast drops

three days a week Monday, Wednesday Friday the YouTube channel

at Strange Planet Radio. You can go to the website

stream the podcast. Sign up, become a premium subscriber, subscribe

to the free monthly newsletter which comes right to your

email inbox. It's called Inner Sanctum, And we do some

pretty deep dives into the subterranean world if you will, so.

Speaker 1: All your social media links right there. So is that

the best place to find out you on YouTube and Instagram,

et cetera.

Speaker 2: That's it. That's it.

Speaker 1: Yes, If people want to follow up with you, that's

the best place to contact you through your website.

Speaker 2: That's right. And they can also find my upcoming appearances

on Coast to Coast am.

Speaker 1: Gotcha, So they can check it out there. Well, thanks

so much for your time, guys. There's so much more

information in this book. Check it out. It's very well written.

And also you can take those links to listen to

the podcasts and get a kind of deeper understanding of

a lot of the stories he tells in this book.

And the full title again is Tales from the Rock

and Roll Twilight Zone, Eriie Enigmas and Supernatural Secrets from

Rock's Darkest Corners. And it will be available for you

can purchase it now, but it will be up on

July ninth and paperback right now. But I'm assuming that

you'll have a different versions sometime in the future, is

that correct.

Speaker 2: I'm so new to this game. I don't know exactly

how it works, but I know that you know, people

like the audio of books as well. They're becoming very popular.

So there may well be an audio book in the

in the in the near future, and I guess a

kindle version. I'm not sure exactly how that's done.

Speaker 1: Trying. Dale'll take care of it for you.

Speaker 2: Yes, they're great.

Speaker 1: I assume that they will have something else, but you

can get the paperback. Now. You can be seen walking

around with this new book.

Speaker 2: Guys.

Speaker 1: Check it out again. It's Tales from the Rock and

Roll twilight Zone. And again it's Richard Syrette s Y

R E T T. And the podcast is Strange Plan

And thanks so much for your time.

Speaker 2: Oh William, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: Great, great job.

Speaker 2: Okay,