Zack Wheeler's angry, Trea Turner's concerns at shortstop
Phillies ace Zack Wheeler showed everybody on Tuesday why he believes he should be an NL All-Star.
He struck out a career-high 14 batters in seven innings in a dominant performance against the Reds. Afterward, he made his case to join his six teammates at the All-Star Game at Citizens Bank Park.
Kyle Schwarber continues to hit Schwarbombs, although Tuesday’s in Cincinnati was an unusual one. Plus, Orion Kerkering’s issues in the eighth inning, Trea Turner’s defense and more.
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Speaker 1: Hi, this is Zach Wheeler.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Philly Show.
Speaker 1: Zach is Jim likes to say, Zach wheels Wheeler absolutely
Speaker 1: deals on Tuesday Night, he says, I'm just offering everybody
Speaker 1: a reminder. Anybody who wants to be reminded, I'm offering
Speaker 1: them a reminder. Ruben Tomorrow Junior, Jim Salsbury, todds Alecki.
Speaker 1: It's the Philly Show and we got to talk about
Speaker 1: our good friend, Zach Wheeler. It's time for first pitch.
Speaker 1: First Pitch is powered by Monster Energy.
Speaker 2: He goes out.
Speaker 1: I asked Don maddingly before the game, guys, I say,
Speaker 1: what do you think the chances are that he goes
Speaker 1: out and pitches with a little bit of an edge
Speaker 1: on Tuesday night? And Don kind of smiled and he says, well,
Speaker 1: if he pitches with an edge and it helps him,
Speaker 1: then I hope he goes out an edge. So I
Speaker 1: asked Zach that question and he said, yeah, I pitched.
Speaker 1: I wanted to pitch with an edge. Would you guys
Speaker 1: think of that performance send sending an all star message?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously he wants to make the All Star team.
Speaker 1: He's all Star worthy. All of that.
Speaker 3: It was great he did.
Speaker 4: He pitched I would even say he pitched with something
Speaker 4: greater than an edge. He pitched with anger, like Bob Gibson,
Speaker 4: like Randy Johnson, like Roger Clemens. Those guys pitched with anger,
Speaker 4: and they channeled it the right way. Sometimes that type
Speaker 4: of emotion could work against you, but with Zach Wheels
Speaker 4: Wheeler it did not. And his last two starts just
Speaker 4: eleven and two thirds innings because he was yank durly
Speaker 4: and that contributed to his edge, but mostly the All
Speaker 4: Star But his last two starts eleven and two thirds innings,
Speaker 4: twenty four punch outs, one walk.
Speaker 2: That's good, right, that's good. H Yeah. I mean he's
Speaker 2: a special pitcher. May go down as one of the
Speaker 2: best all time already is one of the best all
Speaker 2: time pitchers for the Phillies, Number one, number two. It's
Speaker 2: not I don't think it's just about it. He's got
Speaker 2: a lot of pride, so I don't think it's just
Speaker 2: about the All Star thing. I think it's a bigger,
Speaker 2: deeper picture, like that All Star thing, that that's a
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame issue, Like the dude should be on
Speaker 2: the All Star team. That's a fact. He's better than. However,
Speaker 2: many pitchers have been named and or replaced and all
Speaker 2: that he's better than a lot of them. He's one
Speaker 2: of the top three four pitchers in baseball, number.
Speaker 4: Number one since the number one, since he got here.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying even this year after I know that
Speaker 2: he but I mean miss Rowski made the team last
Speaker 2: year with five starts and was named. You know, this
Speaker 2: guy has had a spectacular season and nobody cares about
Speaker 2: wins and losses anyone. Was he ten and one? Now
Speaker 2: nine one one? I mean nine and one. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's the reason why the Phillies are back in this
Speaker 2: thing and playing so well. He might be the single
Speaker 2: greatest reason people could talk about the change in managerial
Speaker 2: their managerial change now it's about him starting in their
Speaker 2: rotation and setting that rotation back to where it's supposed
Speaker 2: to be. And so there's so many factors here, and
Speaker 2: I think long term, you know, he doesn't get named
Speaker 2: for this All Star team. That's a resume issue. You know,
Speaker 2: it's this guy who's got a chance to be a
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer if you start to break down all
Speaker 2: of his numbers and what he's done in his era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kyle too, yeah, Kyle Swarber talked about that. He said,
Speaker 1: you know, he's like, listen, he wanted to make this clear.
Speaker 1: Of course, he goes alesch Warber being alech Warber, he said, listen,
Speaker 1: we're all here to win the game, win games, and
Speaker 1: win a World Series. That's our number one priority. But
Speaker 1: when your career is over, you do want to look
Speaker 1: back and see some of these accolades, in these awards
Speaker 1: that you've won, to show that you've had a really
Speaker 1: nice career. And kind of like Jim on Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: when we were talking with Harper in Kansas City, we
Speaker 1: said nine is pretty good. I mean he's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's not enough, because at the end of his career,
Speaker 1: Bryce Harper would love to have instead of nine time
Speaker 1: All Star, he'd love to have thirteen time All Star
Speaker 1: or fourteen time Allster, just like Zach Wheeler would like
Speaker 1: to have five time All Star or six time All Star.
Speaker 1: And that stuff does build your resume for a Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame candidacy down the road if he ends up
Speaker 1: pitching beyond this contract.
Speaker 3: A couple things, A couple things. I think the cy
Speaker 3: Young Award will outweigh an.
Speaker 4: All Star birth in my opinion, and he's right in
Speaker 4: the thick of this He's right, He's right in the
Speaker 4: thick of this thing. And we talked about this recently.
Speaker 4: It would be poetic justice because in what twenty one,
Speaker 4: Burns wins it with one hundred and sixty five innings,
Speaker 4: Wheels has two hundred and thirteen innings. Well, this year
Speaker 4: his innings are going to be down a little bit.
Speaker 4: And I think he's right in the thick of it
Speaker 4: with you know, Sanchez and Misowski and Sale and who's
Speaker 4: the Burns from Cincinnati. He's good and he can have
Speaker 4: a finishing drive here and it just looks like it
Speaker 4: started last night and he can win the Cy Young
Speaker 4: And the other thing I wonder about, I just he
Speaker 4: was named to the All Star team last year. He
Speaker 4: was lining up to start that game, he opted to rest.
Speaker 4: I wonder if major League Baseball that's in the back
Speaker 4: of their mind and they said, you know what, last
Speaker 4: year he.
Speaker 3: Backed out, We're going to go in a different direction
Speaker 3: this year.
Speaker 2: I just wonder, Yeah, that's not right. And you may
Speaker 2: be right, but that's not right. I don't care what
Speaker 2: they say. That's just not right. I mean, he opted
Speaker 2: to take take that stance because he needed it, and
Speaker 2: it was clear that he did need it. And I
Speaker 2: just don't feel that that's the that would be a
Speaker 2: reason to swipe the guy, to handslap him for that reason.
Speaker 4: It's just not right the handslap or just shape there
Speaker 4: thinking the fact that he was going to pitch on
Speaker 4: Sunday wasn't gonna be But I think you name him
Speaker 4: and you let him bow out because he's pitching on Sunday.
Speaker 4: I mean, Skeens is bowed out because he's pitching on Sunday.
Speaker 4: Miss Rowski is pitching on Sunday, He's not gonna be
Speaker 4: able to pitch. You give him the honor, and especially
Speaker 4: when you factor in the story behind it, coming back
Speaker 4: from major surgery and and getting on a dominant track again,
Speaker 4: it just totally adds to it all.
Speaker 2: So he said.
Speaker 1: So I asked him, if you pitch on Sunday, is
Speaker 1: there any way that you could throw face a batter
Speaker 1: on on Tuesday? Because I think that's the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they need. I mean, you need pitchers that can pitch
Speaker 1: in the All Star Game. You don't want to have
Speaker 1: another fiasco where you know you're in the eighth inning
Speaker 1: and you've run out of guys or whatever, because you
Speaker 1: know you don't have enough bodies to pitch. So he said, yes,
Speaker 1: I you know that would be like a bullpen day.
Speaker 1: I usually feel good two three days after I start,
Speaker 1: so I would be able to available to pitch. Now
Speaker 1: here's the question, well would say? Major League Baseball said,
Speaker 1: all right, if you can give it, if you can
Speaker 1: promise you'll give us an inning, we'll name me to
Speaker 1: the All Star team. Now what do the Phillies say?
Speaker 3: That's why they made the rule.
Speaker 2: I think the Phillies would allow him to do it.
Speaker 2: If he wants to do it, he'll do it. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: he knows his body.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knows his body.
Speaker 2: I just don't know whether it's gonna have I can't
Speaker 2: imagine up and now. But should it should?
Speaker 4: I think they made the rule to protect pictures from themselves,
Speaker 4: so I actually don't know that that could happen.
Speaker 1: But there are Jimmy mcgra great point. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of pitchers who were snubbed at the All Star Game
Speaker 1: went on to win Cy Young Awards. I'm just looking
Speaker 1: at a story about this right now. Twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: Blake Snell, Robbie Ray in twenty twe with the Blue Jays,
Speaker 1: Jake Arietta in twenty fifteen with the Cubs. You know,
Speaker 1: Felix Hernandez in twenty ten with the Mariners, Johann Santana
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four with the Twins. Goes all
Speaker 1: the way back to Greg Maddox in ninety three with
Speaker 1: the Braves even I mean, well beyond that, Roger Clemens
Speaker 1: eighty seven, nineteen eighty how about John Denny former Philly
Speaker 1: John Denny nineteen eighty three, didn't make the All Star team,
Speaker 1: win the Cy Young Awards. So lots and lots and
Speaker 1: lots of pictures for this back Don Newcombe nineteen fifty
Speaker 1: six of the.
Speaker 2: Dodgers, Don Newton, I played with it Sohn at Stanford?
Speaker 3: Is that right? Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't really have too many at bats,
Speaker 2: Lieutenant hitting first basement.
Speaker 4: Was he was he on the field when Jeffrey Leonard
Speaker 4: hit that bomb?
Speaker 2: He were there? May have been behind me, yeah, when
Speaker 2: it took him like twenty minutes to get around the basis.
Speaker 3: I love that story.
Speaker 1: Is a great story. But yeah, so we'll see what
Speaker 1: happens with Zach Wheeler. Probably nothing. He'll probably be watching
Speaker 1: it from home, and you know what, if it motivates
Speaker 1: him in the second half to keep going and doing
Speaker 1: what he's doing, wouldn't it be something. Wouldn't it be something?
Speaker 1: If he ran down the mizz and won a Cy
Speaker 1: Young Award, that would be pretty wild. That would be
Speaker 1: pretty wild.
Speaker 2: So impossible. I mean, listen, he can have a listen
Speaker 2: the way he's throwing the baseball right now. I mean
Speaker 2: it's he's electric man, great stuff, but he doesn't have
Speaker 2: great stuff, man, it's still electric.
Speaker 1: It was just fun to watch the nipe just because
Speaker 1: he struck out fourteen batters, a tied a career high,
Speaker 1: no walks, and it's just struck struck out everybody with
Speaker 1: all of his different pitches, and it was fun to
Speaker 1: see him how he started early he went, he was
Speaker 1: striking everybody out with his sweeper early. I think four
Speaker 1: of his first five strikeouts were on a sweeper and
Speaker 1: then his last three were on splitters. So you have
Speaker 1: if you were a Cincinnati read last night, you don't
Speaker 1: know what the hell was going on here?
Speaker 4: Was that pitch has made a big difference. He's throwing
Speaker 4: it more this year and he's really executing it. I
Speaker 4: think of shilling when he added that splitter. Remember Ruben,
Speaker 4: he became a different guy.
Speaker 2: And he became basically unheittable there for a while, No doubt.
Speaker 3: Brush that pitch up using it more in the last
Speaker 3: couple of years. It's got a.
Speaker 2: Good grip on it. He feels comfortable with it, and uh,
Speaker 2: that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was first pitch Monster Energy, Unleash the Beast,
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Speaker 6: All right, we're back, Phillies All Star.
Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber hit his thirty first home run of the season. Uh,
Speaker 1: what was cool about that? Unusual about that? Do you
Speaker 1: guys know why it was an unusual Kyle Schwarber home run?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, care to share rubin enlighten the people that aren't
Speaker 1: aren't so privy.
Speaker 2: Rarely does he swing at a three tozero pitch.
Speaker 1: Rarely does Kyle swork.
Speaker 2: And he got a lefty and he decided, guess what
Speaker 2: I'm swinging on this three to zero pitch, and he
Speaker 2: swung with intent and he did exactly what he intended
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: He crushed.
Speaker 4: He didn't over swing, which a lot of times guys
Speaker 4: overswing on three to zero and they hit us, you know,
Speaker 4: a pop up skyrocket, and he just stayed with himself
Speaker 4: on top of that ball.
Speaker 3: He gave him a lyft last night.
Speaker 4: Zach Wheeler gave him a list last lift last night
Speaker 4: because Todd I thought they looked like a tired.
Speaker 3: Team in Kansas City and they needed a little jolt.
Speaker 1: They they did look a little tired, and even Don
Speaker 1: mannically alluded to the debt before the game on Tuesday
Speaker 1: about Brandon Marsh looking a little tired. I think, you
Speaker 1: know that's why he got a rest Tuesday. But Schwarber,
Speaker 1: he can inject some life into you. You know, that
Speaker 1: was only the second time all season he swung in
Speaker 1: a three to zero pitch. It was like he's gotten
Speaker 1: thirty He's been in thirty two to three zero counts
Speaker 1: this year. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the left hander the left handers laid in
Speaker 2: there at ninety one point two. You know, that's the
Speaker 2: problem with looking all the analytics and oh, he's never
Speaker 2: gonna swing. You know, guess what, my friends, it's not
Speaker 2: analytics when you're standing in the box. Okay, you can't
Speaker 2: predict shit all the time. You just can't. You want
Speaker 2: to know why, because baseball is an unpredictable sport, and
Speaker 2: it's the beauty and why we love it so much.
Speaker 2: So and yeah, so it's pretty pretty cool.
Speaker 1: So I MTSA see if I gotta throw this little
Speaker 1: graphic up here. This is before Tuesday. You look at these.
Speaker 1: This is Kyle Schwarber's career in three zero counts. And
Speaker 1: I asked him, you know you had you don't swing
Speaker 1: a lot of three oh counts in the past few years.
Speaker 1: He only swings at a three oh pitch seven percent
Speaker 1: of the time, I said, But earlier in the carease
Speaker 1: he swung a lot, a lot more, I should say.
Speaker 1: And I said, why'd you kind of stop swinging? He's like, well,
Speaker 1: if you've seen my numbers in three zero counts, you
Speaker 1: know I don't hit very well for whatever reason. Well,
Speaker 1: sure enough, his career batting average in three zero counts
Speaker 1: before yesterday's one forty three. But the funny part is
Speaker 1: that's in one hundred and ninety one played appearances. He's
Speaker 1: walked on seventy seven times. He's got a nine to
Speaker 1: thirty seven on base percentage in three zero counts thirteen
Speaker 1: hundred ops. But it's just, you know, he realizes that
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, he doesn't smoke the ball in three
Speaker 1: zero counts. You know, a year about guys getting a
Speaker 1: green light, right, So he's like, I'm just not going
Speaker 1: to do it. But the last night he said, it
Speaker 1: was the perfect moment, perfect opportunity.
Speaker 2: And also, I mean, it's about passing the baton. It's
Speaker 2: about being a team player. Man, I get on base
Speaker 2: and now Bryce Harper is going to do some damage.
Speaker 2: So I mean it's you know he and he mentioned
Speaker 2: that as well, So having a guy like that behind
Speaker 2: him certainly helps him. And uh, you know you got
Speaker 2: to take sort of take advantage of that by being
Speaker 2: a base runner. What is this about. It's about productions,
Speaker 2: about scoring runs and driving in runs, and that's all
Speaker 2: it really matters at the end of the day when
Speaker 2: you're an offensive player. So I mean, that's the approach
Speaker 2: he has, and that's the right one.
Speaker 3: Todd any more intel on the Derby.
Speaker 1: No, I nothing, nothing yet. But I still believe that Schwarber.
Speaker 1: I think Schwarber is going to participate. No Harper, not
Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 2: Yet. I think he's building all these chrescendoy He's going
Speaker 2: to crescendo that at the end and then the Showman's
Speaker 2: going to say, I got a batting practice pitcher.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's going to get one.
Speaker 2: He's going to get one, and he's going to drive
Speaker 2: balls out of that ballpark with regularity, and it's going
Speaker 2: to be a fun thing to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: My guess is he's going to go for that. Dino Ebel,
Speaker 4: the third base coach of the Dodgers, who is an exceptional, exceptional,
Speaker 4: laid in there guy, very good now and everybody likes everybody.
Speaker 4: Everybody likes Dino Abel. We'll see if his arm holds up,
Speaker 4: because he might have other requests, but I think he's
Speaker 4: a pretty good one.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting name. That's an interesting name.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Whatever can get brace Harper into the home runner it
Speaker 1: would be great for Phillies fans and Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1: You get it, Harper and Schwarber participating in the home
Speaker 1: run der.
Speaker 2: I did want to get into that one subject. You
Speaker 2: talked about, the Phillies looking tired is a concern. I mean,
Speaker 2: I looked at I talked about Scott Franski about and
Speaker 2: he put together some stuff about, you know, their winning
Speaker 2: percentage as far as and their overall production. You know,
Speaker 2: some of the guys who are a little bit longer
Speaker 2: of tooth, meaning the Turners, Schwarbers and Harper's of the world,
Speaker 2: you know, their numbers oh ps wise are down significantly
Speaker 2: on day games. And the question is why is that happening.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different reasons. I think one is,
Speaker 2: guess what, you can't put a lot of artificial pep
Speaker 2: in your step anymore. The reality of it is amfittamines
Speaker 2: or not part of the game anymore. And I know
Speaker 2: we don't. You know, that's a touchy subject, but that's that.
Speaker 2: And now you have to do it with natural caffeine
Speaker 2: and that kind of stuff and those monster energy drinks,
Speaker 2: which are certainly helpful. But the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: it's it's a different game today for the players who
Speaker 2: are a little bit longer of tooth and not.
Speaker 1: Able to.
Speaker 2: I guess, play as effectively in day games after night games.
Speaker 2: And it's it is a thing. And so it's something
Speaker 2: that I think that the nutritionists and the people with
Speaker 2: the phillies should sort of look at and probably are
Speaker 2: about how they work around that. And so one of
Speaker 2: the reasons why Don Mattingly is probably you know, giving
Speaker 2: guys rest. Why why you see why you saw Topper
Speaker 2: do it as well. I mean, some of these guys
Speaker 2: are just not performing as well in the day games.
Speaker 2: And there's a reason for that. It's it's a long
Speaker 2: ass season and during these dog days of now July
Speaker 2: and August, man, you're it's getting hotter and hotter. It's
Speaker 2: tough to revent.
Speaker 1: Don Don did talk about it a little bit before
Speaker 1: the game on Tuesday and said that, yeah, he's you know,
Speaker 1: he tries to keep an eye on those types of things,
Speaker 1: and he says, what you don't want to do is
Speaker 1: have players look to the All Star Break as it
Speaker 1: approaches and kind of take your eye off the ball,
Speaker 1: so to speak. He said he always tells guys to
Speaker 1: play through the All Star break and go in and
Speaker 1: then take a good solid four days, three four days, Well,
Speaker 1: now it's three and then they open up on Thursday
Speaker 1: against the Mets. For those guys not on the All
Speaker 1: Star team, but.
Speaker 4: Something, yeah, like it's like you look at a season,
Speaker 4: the season doesn't wind down, it stops. You've got to
Speaker 4: play right to the whistle, right And I mean is
Speaker 4: very interesting case because you know, you talk about Wheeler
Speaker 4: having some motivation here with the snob or whatever, you
Speaker 4: want to call it. Harper's got the same motivation with
Speaker 4: Dombrowski's comments in the off season their last October, and
Speaker 4: in addition to putting up big numbers, you get the
Speaker 4: feel he wants to play in every game. He's played
Speaker 4: in every game. But I think at some point they're
Speaker 4: gonna have to trim him back a little bit.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like the old gardener, you know, snip here and
Speaker 4: a snip here makes the makes the rose stand taller.
Speaker 4: So they're gonna have to, you know, watch him in
Speaker 4: the second half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt about that. I thought you
Speaker 1: were gonna say tomato. Jimmie threw me through a loop
Speaker 1: with the rose analogy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's horticulture.
Speaker 2: It's all horror culture, it's all horder coach.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot more coming on The Philly Show.
Speaker 1: But first, Ruben, do you have anything for us from
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Speaker 2: All Right, we're back, Todd.
Speaker 3: You got me into the World Cup over the weekend.
Speaker 2: I did the game extraordinary. It's just been an absolute
Speaker 2: joy to watch these guys do what they do and messy.
Speaker 2: My friends, he is the greatest of all time, no
Speaker 2: disrespect to all the other greats, Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona. This
Speaker 2: guy king period.
Speaker 3: How about Carl Heinz. How about Carl Heinz.
Speaker 2: Mumenaken also tremendous. Y'll bless you second Bowery.
Speaker 3: The intensity is just I mean, the intensity is amazing.
Speaker 4: It's todd and I watched UH with two day games
Speaker 4: in Kansas City and we went out and watched soccer
Speaker 4: at night and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun. I mean, the games
Speaker 1: were great, other than the US game. That's the only
Speaker 1: clunker so far as the US. The US quarterfinal case.
Speaker 3: Yeah they did.
Speaker 2: They really laid an egg for sadly.
Speaker 1: Yeah they did.
Speaker 2: They did.
Speaker 1: But so, Jim, you mentioned Philly's looking a little tired
Speaker 1: this weekend in Kansas City. But I think there's also
Speaker 1: a bigger issue that kind of showed its head in
Speaker 1: Kansas City, and that happened on Monday in the series
Speaker 1: finale at Kaufman Stadium, and it happened in the first inning.
Speaker 1: You know, Christopher Sanchez has a chance to get out
Speaker 1: of an inning with an inning ending double play, Trey
Speaker 1: Turner commits an error, five more runs score, and Christopher
Speaker 1: Sanchez is on his way to have the worst start
Speaker 1: of his career. Trey's defense has been an issue all
Speaker 1: season long, and it I mean to me, it's it's
Speaker 1: a concern moving forward as his team. You know you
Speaker 1: need to get out, you know you gotta get you
Speaker 1: gotta get out with this pitching staff.
Speaker 4: Well, you say Christopher Sanchez had the worst start of
Speaker 4: his career, you got to fix a huge asterisk to
Speaker 4: that because that play changed the entire game, right, six
Speaker 4: earned runs in the first inning. I mean, come on that.
Speaker 4: That crushes your spirit as a as a team and
Speaker 4: as a starting pitcher. And I think that had a
Speaker 4: lot to do with Christopher Sanchez leaving those change ups
Speaker 4: up on the zone. It crushed his spirit and he
Speaker 4: would never say that, but you know he's human, and
Speaker 4: you're right. Trade Turners defense has been an issue pretty
Speaker 4: much the entire time he's been here. I mean, he
Speaker 4: made forty errors his first two seasons here, did a
Speaker 4: good job last year, really improved, but it's it's an
Speaker 4: issue again this year and these plays rear their head,
Speaker 4: these miscues rather had it, you know, very inopportune times,
Speaker 4: and you just, you know, you hope it doesn't bite
Speaker 4: them in big games down the road. We've talked about
Speaker 4: they're gonna have to investigate moving this guy to the
Speaker 4: outfield at some point. I still believe that's the case.
Speaker 4: But you know, he he flat out said, I have
Speaker 4: to be more consistent for the guys that are on
Speaker 4: the mound, at least, he said that. And he has
Speaker 4: to do that because that's a crucial defensive position. And
Speaker 4: when that ball is hit on the ground, you have
Speaker 4: to know it's an out. When that, when you have
Speaker 4: a double play to get out of an inning, when
Speaker 4: your pitcher's bobbing and weaving a little bit, you got
Speaker 4: to make the throw. And it's it's it's like this,
Speaker 4: it's like a gnawing itch that kind of won't go away.
Speaker 4: It's it's there in the back of your mind, and
Speaker 4: you just you hope it doesn't bite them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I liken it to you know, you
Speaker 2: can win and lose a game in the first inning,
Speaker 2: in the first pitch of big game, you can. I mean,
Speaker 2: one pitch the first inning means just as much as
Speaker 2: the ninth inning. And so it much in the same
Speaker 2: way that Zach Wheeler was sort of propelled by the
Speaker 2: great play by Derek Hill in centerfield on Soto's ball
Speaker 2: in New York. That means the whole dynamic of that game.
Speaker 2: He goes on, pitches his ass off, and they win
Speaker 2: the ball game. Same way with this play, you can
Speaker 2: lose the game. That's a groundball routine double play that
Speaker 2: should have been an out. Kay Leon does not run
Speaker 2: well and if he makes, if he plays catch the
Speaker 2: game that the inning's over, you move forward, you possibly
Speaker 2: win the game. Instead, it's a blowout. Now I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that, I'm not giving it making an excuse for
Speaker 2: Sanchez because he needs to pitch over that, right the
Speaker 2: great ones will pitch over that. And then so and
Speaker 2: I think that he I think he understands it. And
Speaker 2: I give both these guys credit because they did. They
Speaker 2: showed their accountability, like I have to make those plays
Speaker 2: and and Trey Turner said that, and Sanchez said I
Speaker 2: pitched like shit, So yes, and so they had accountability.
Speaker 2: But those games can be won and lost. And it's
Speaker 2: been ironic to me. And I know the numbers are
Speaker 2: not great for Sanchez, obviously a big disparity on the road.
Speaker 2: But the three games that really affected him with one
Speaker 2: in Milwaukee, the game in a Nationals park, and then
Speaker 2: this past game. All three of those games there were
Speaker 2: plays that Trey Turner did not make or could not make,
Speaker 2: not necessarily errors, but could not make that really changed
Speaker 2: the dynamic of the game. Now you know, Trey Turner
Speaker 2: has been a great baseball player in this league for
Speaker 2: a long time, and he really improved last year. But
Speaker 2: there if they that becomes a liability the player. He
Speaker 2: has to make those plays at some point. If the
Speaker 2: Phillies don't feel like those plays are being made, they
Speaker 2: have to really consider, as you said, Jim, makeing a
Speaker 2: change in that position because you cannot You cannot sustain
Speaker 2: that either for the long term or the short short term,
Speaker 2: particularly in a playoff situation. If you don't have the
Speaker 2: trust of your shortstop to be able to make those
Speaker 2: plays maybe some routine, maybe not quite so routine, but
Speaker 2: routine for other shortstops who who are more accomplished, then
Speaker 2: you have to consider, you know, making a change. I
Speaker 2: feel badly for the guy, because the man wants to
Speaker 2: be successful and who wants to work. He works at
Speaker 2: it and all that stuff, But the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: if he can't make those routine plays, then it makes
Speaker 2: it very difficult for the team. It's not about Drey Turner.
Speaker 2: It's about the team and making sure that that that
Speaker 2: the team is benefiting from from his play.
Speaker 4: You have to have a dependable shortstop. I mean, I
Speaker 4: go back to the ninety three Phillies and and you know,
Speaker 4: I remember Jim Fragosi telling me the story. You know,
Speaker 4: Wan Bell was a shortstop. Everything was an adventure, and
Speaker 4: one day Lee Thomas opened the door and said, you're
Speaker 4: getting a new shortstop tomorrow, and Kevin Stalker showed up,
Speaker 4: solidified the position, and they won the division.
Speaker 3: You have to have a dependable shortstop.
Speaker 2: No question about it.
Speaker 1: But do you guys see anything like that happening this year?
Speaker 1: I mean, j Bell is one thing. Tray Turner in
Speaker 1: a three hundred million dollar contract is something entirely different,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's a very very difficult conversation to have. Is it
Speaker 2: a conversation that me, if I were in a GM seat,
Speaker 2: would I consider having that conversation? Well? Possibly even in season,
Speaker 2: And I don't know, is now the time to talk
Speaker 2: about it? For the All Star Break. Is it fair
Speaker 2: to like throw this guy in the center field or
Speaker 2: left field, or field or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 2: change his position in the mid season after he hasn't
Speaker 2: done it for years and years and expect him to
Speaker 2: do okay. I mean, he's a great athlete and probably
Speaker 2: could do it. Is that fair? I don't know, But
Speaker 2: is a conversation that at least internally I would be having,
Speaker 2: and perhaps at some point, I mean, you have to
Speaker 2: be honest with the player. Listen, if this is really
Speaker 2: gotten to the point where it's affecting the team and
Speaker 2: their ability to have maximize their production, then it's a
Speaker 2: difficult conversation that needs to be had.
Speaker 4: Difficult, But I actually think he'd be a heck of
Speaker 4: an outfielder. And every time I say that, somebody says, oh,
Speaker 4: he doesn't have the arm. You know what I say
Speaker 4: to that BS. In the infield, he slings everything and
Speaker 4: he side arms everything. In the outfield, he would use
Speaker 4: his back leg and he would throw more purely and
Speaker 4: more fundamentally purely, and he'd get more power on the
Speaker 4: ball because he'd get that push. I think he's he's
Speaker 4: an incredible athlete. I think he'd be a very very
Speaker 4: good outfielder. It might ease some stress, help them, help
Speaker 4: them at the plate. It's something that is just it's
Speaker 4: getting hard to hide from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for a team that needs to play deep
Speaker 1: in October, you can't be having a guy out there
Speaker 1: that can't make a play like you're right room. There's
Speaker 1: so many times where it's been like a ball that
Speaker 1: he has to charge in on and just just can't
Speaker 1: finish the throw at first. You know, an infield single,
Speaker 1: not an error, but it's an infield single. But you wonder,
Speaker 1: you go, man, that play's got to be there.
Speaker 2: And I mean especially an ouse and those. I mean
Speaker 2: there is the residual and domino effect that's associated with it.
Speaker 2: Right now, there's twenty extra pitches, there's forty extra pitches.
Speaker 2: There's you have to use to bullpen too early, and
Speaker 2: then you know the soft part of the soft spot
Speaker 2: in in the Phillies. You know, pitching corps is their
Speaker 2: middle relief. They're just not very good right now, and
Speaker 2: so when you start stressing the bullpen, there's also so
Speaker 2: many domino effects for not being able to play quality defense.
Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why the teams like the
Speaker 2: Cleveland and you know Guardians, I say Indians, Guardians and
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Brewers and all those teams, even Tampa Bay.
Speaker 2: They play well defensively and so they win games. Pitching
Speaker 2: in defense. It really helps, you know, it changes the
Speaker 2: whole dynamic, changes the whole dynamic of the game and
Speaker 2: the team and the season.
Speaker 4: You give extra outsets blood in the water, and it
Speaker 4: becomes a feeding frenzy. All the sharks come in. Next thing,
Speaker 4: you know, boom, you know, six runs are on the board.
Speaker 1: One last question for me for you guys, is are
Speaker 1: you concerned with Ryan Kirkering his recent performances in the
Speaker 1: in the a thing. It's now the second time in
Speaker 1: his last four appearances that he's walked the bases loaded,
Speaker 1: both times coming in the eighth inning, both times coming
Speaker 1: with a save situation, meaning you know, lead of three
Speaker 1: runs or less. But man, a.
Speaker 3: Little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think he's had a great season in
Speaker 4: terms of bouncing back from a difficult October. And he
Speaker 4: said he's got a lot of big outs for this team.
Speaker 4: Very encouraging. But yeah, those those walking the bases full
Speaker 4: two games, I mean last night. He is delivery at
Speaker 4: times when he's walking. Guys there looked very rushed. He
Speaker 4: was kind of pulling the ball, yanking the balls. Mechanics
Speaker 4: seem to deteriorate a little bit. I don't know what's
Speaker 4: going on, but all I know is the circle of
Speaker 4: trust at the back end of the bullpen to me
Speaker 4: is shrinking, and they need to address that. And one
Speaker 4: of the ways they can address it is by you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, Bowland got some big outs in Kansas City,
Speaker 4: big out in Cincinnati on Tuesday night.
Speaker 3: That's nice to see.
Speaker 4: But they're gonna need O'Ryan to you know, avoid games
Speaker 4: like he had like that and continue his progress upward
Speaker 4: like he's shown kind of the majority of the season,
Speaker 4: and also going to need i think, need to augment
Speaker 4: from the outside. It's a bullpen to me has become
Speaker 4: the number one need. I'm talking back end leverage, shut down,
Speaker 4: protect that lead game over type. You know that compliments
Speaker 4: the ultimate game over guy in Duran.
Speaker 1: We'll bet brag Keller exctivated, so hopefully you can show
Speaker 1: show some life before the all start break go ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean two things have to happen. Brad Keller
Speaker 2: has to come back and be effective, and they have
Speaker 2: to add a piece, because right now, there's as you
Speaker 2: said there, you know, for Don Matting, they you trust
Speaker 2: somebody to get three outs or two outs or even
Speaker 2: one out in the eighth inning prior to and hold
Speaker 2: the lead or keep the the game intact. It just
Speaker 2: really isn't there right now. And you know, Ryan Kirkering
Speaker 2: in the sixth and seventh lights out in the eighth
Speaker 2: tighter and tighter, not so much. Can he get there eventually, Yes,
Speaker 2: I think he can. I think at some point he
Speaker 2: will get over that hump. I mean, sometimes it takes
Speaker 2: a while for guys to get to the point where
Speaker 2: they're like, screw it, I'm just gonna go and throw
Speaker 2: my best stuff, and I'm gonna throw it over the plate,
Speaker 2: and I don't care whether it's gonna get hit or not.
Speaker 2: It's going to be an out. That's a hard thing
Speaker 2: to get over deep in the game. And until that happens,
Speaker 2: they're going to have to get somebody that they feel
Speaker 2: can do that. And I think that in particular from
Speaker 2: the left side. I mean, it could be a right
Speaker 2: hand or it could be a left he doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: But you've got to get somebody you can really trust
Speaker 2: in the eighth inning to get to get to get
Speaker 2: three outs.
Speaker 3: Or more time high Chapman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been talking about it forever. I mean we
Speaker 2: we've talked about Chapman. I think I talked about that
Speaker 2: what two months ago?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was too much.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, can you imagine having those two
Speaker 2: guys and sometimes he's not even all that reliable, but
Speaker 2: he's been there and done it, and he's made the
Speaker 2: last picture of the season, and so yes, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll take my chances with a guy like that. I
Speaker 2: always talk with Pat Gillick about that, veterans in the bullpen,
Speaker 2: young pictures in the starting rotation.
Speaker 4: And he's been acquired twice late in seasons and both
Speaker 4: those teams won the World Series. So I mean, there's
Speaker 4: my question, what do you guys think, would he he's
Speaker 4: been so good with Boston as the closer, would he
Speaker 4: want to come and be a setup man because you
Speaker 4: can't you can't touch the r in season, the performance
Speaker 4: he's provided the.
Speaker 3: Last it's a good question.
Speaker 2: I don't know, you probably have to get dig deep
Speaker 2: into that and find out about his psyche. What is
Speaker 2: it more important than him for him this in this stage,
Speaker 2: for him to win a World Series or is it
Speaker 2: more important for him to show the world I can
Speaker 2: still be a closer. I'm not sure that's something I
Speaker 2: don't know the person, I don't know the player, but
Speaker 2: it's certainly something that you have to do some background
Speaker 2: on and uh and and see whether that's a role
Speaker 2: that he would consider, because you cannot take Joan Durant
Speaker 2: out of his rop. He's as good as it gets
Speaker 2: no no disrespect to Mason over there in San Diego.
Speaker 2: But the reality of it is no, no, no disrespect
Speaker 2: to him. But I'll take Joan Durant every time.
Speaker 1: I would like to think that a guy like Eeraldas
Speaker 1: Chapman has been around the book, he's won a World Series,
Speaker 1: has been a closer forever. Would look at see the situation,
Speaker 1: Philly Go, that's one of like two guys I would
Speaker 1: set up for. Yeah, not coming into a situation where
Speaker 1: it's you know, get no disrespect, it's Jeff Hoffman and
Speaker 1: Matt Strom in the back of the bullpen. You're like, wait,
Speaker 1: I'm setting up for these guys, right, I'm Eeraldi's Chapman.
Speaker 3: You would think, so good point, Yeah, yeah, what about that?
Speaker 3: What about that?
Speaker 4: Aj Mintor with the Mets. The Mets is soon gonna
Speaker 4: put a for sale sign on a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Also a great, a great, a great idea. Hey, listen,
Speaker 2: you know sometimes you have to go to plan B,
Speaker 2: C or D and if you can't get the best
Speaker 2: one that doesn't match up. I mean, I'm sure that
Speaker 2: Dave Nebrawski and his people, Mike Goo and his people
Speaker 2: are out there sniffing around just as much as possible
Speaker 2: to see what what they can do for this, For
Speaker 2: this bullpen.
Speaker 1: Just got to make some sort of upgrade, you guys, Ruben,
Speaker 1: You guys whiffed in two thousand and eight with C. C. Sabathia,
Speaker 1: but you got Joe Blanton and he helped it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, big time.
Speaker 2: You made us marginally better again. You have to go
Speaker 2: to plan B and C and D, and we ended
Speaker 2: up getting somebody who could eat some innings and had
Speaker 2: some cojones, right, you had some cojones and and uh
Speaker 2: and did a decent job for us. And then he
Speaker 2: ended up hitting a freaking home run, which is kind
Speaker 2: of cool because I think he might be enjoying our
Speaker 2: slug ball competition. He may be joining us.
Speaker 1: Todd, look at that how about.
Speaker 2: That maybe joining us on the on the eighth of August.
Speaker 2: Are you boys coming, You're you're officially invited to come
Speaker 2: join us.
Speaker 1: I would love to go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll be there.
Speaker 2: I love to see your faces there at Michael john Field.
Speaker 2: I guess is Tom Assorta. I don't uh. We're working
Speaker 2: on a couple of other guys, Aaron Rowan as one
Speaker 2: of them might as well. So there's a few guys.
Speaker 2: I am still working on some big names. Still working
Speaker 2: on J row how about a still working on still
Speaker 2: working on No not a Rod, Still working on a
Speaker 2: couple of guys, maybe the Flying Hawaiian. Oh there, working
Speaker 2: on J. Dubb anyway, I don't know if that's gonna happen,
Speaker 2: but we're we're those guys have other responsibilities, but we
Speaker 2: have some really good names and that we're we're excited
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. It'll be a good event. Guys.
Speaker 2: That was gentlemen to be there at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 3: I can I hit now, we want to hit. We're
Speaker 3: not coming if we can't hit.
Speaker 2: All right, we have the original wheels and yeah, friend,
Speaker 2: our good friend Leslie Goodell, I think are going to
Speaker 2: both be announcing that's cool.
Speaker 3: Right, you mean Chris Wheels Wheeler.
Speaker 2: Chris Wheels Wheeler, that's right.
Speaker 1: Somebody. I'm not going to name the person, but somebody
Speaker 1: yesterday goes, why do you guys always say Zach Wheels Wheeler?
Speaker 1: And I said, because it's silly, and because it's fun
Speaker 1: and it makes.
Speaker 3: Us look silly. It's good to be silly exactly, So
Speaker 3: it be.
Speaker 2: Silly, you can't be.
Speaker 1: That's that's right, Philly Show. We'll be back later this week.
Speaker 3: Smell your later.
Speaker 2: Boys. If you made it this far, you'll love this
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