The Murder of Glenn Kopitske

This week Taylor and Lauren discuss the murder of Glenn Kopitske. Sources: 

• NBC News: Eagle Scout Accused of Thrill Kill
• My Crime Library: Gary Hirte Teen Killer Perfect Murder
• ABC News: Teen Killer Has No Remorse
• Newsweek: A Merit Badge in Murder?
• Wikipedia

Speaker 1: Hi, Warriors, welcome to aren't you worried? I'm your host,

Lauren Perry, and joining me this week is my very

sweet friend Taylor. Hi, welcome back, Taylor.

Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1: For being here. How are you?

Speaker 2: I'm good? How are you?

Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm shocked that we're already in August. I

hate it.

Speaker 2: It's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like it was just the fourth of July.

Speaker 2: It really was.

Speaker 3: And I know we don't really have like a real

summer anymore, but no, it's still it's a protein winter.

Speaker 1: And I'm like, I get very sad on top of

not having like a real summer, I get very sad

that we don't have falls anymore. I know, like throw

me in someone's backyard or in the driveway in front

of a fire. Yep, for like at least nine weekends

in a row, and you maybe get two. Now.

Speaker 2: I could deal with winter if I had a very

nice fall.

Speaker 1: I think we would deal with.

Speaker 2: Winter much, you know, with a better attitude.

Speaker 1: I think I think so too. But just going from

like a nice Crisp sixty three to forty, get the

fuck out of here.

Speaker 2: Yes, Nope, it's too much of a shock. Or sure,

I agree.

Speaker 1: Oh well, oh you are getting ready to go back

to school? Are you ready getting there? Okay?

Speaker 3: Yeah, we start school September first, and oh yeah, but it's.

Speaker 2: Coming up quick for sure?

Speaker 1: Is that a Monday?

Speaker 2: Tuesday?

Speaker 1: Okay? Okay, well these you guys are waiting till September.

But I was just having a conversation with Sarah, who

is also a teacher, that they go back. I think,

I'm a well, they'll probably go back that Monday. So

the thirtieth of August or ninth whatever, that is the

first thirty first Okay.

Speaker 2: Yep, because our school always does, which I appreciate this.

They always do. Monday is back to school night. Tuesday's

first day school, oh I love. And then the next week.

Speaker 3: Is also a short week because of Labor Day, so

we have two short weeks the first two weeks of school,

which we really appreciate.

Speaker 1: Well, when you say it like that, it sounds wonderful.

But me and Sarah or Bitch's like, that's so stupid.

Why would they just go back after.

Speaker 3: L yes in her in her case for sure, Yeah,

it would frustrate me too. For us, it's like, especially

with my age kids, you know, that's true. Two short

weeks just to get them a little acquainted and acclimated.

It's like, Okay, I can do four days two weeks

in a row.

Speaker 1: You know what when you say it like that, I

feel I was like blowing up her shit, being like

it's so unfair that you have to do that, and

she's like, she's a girl. I know, yeah, try doing it. Well.

Speaker 3: Then there's Kyle. He doesn't start to like mid September. What, Yes,

he doesn't start to like two and.

Speaker 2: A half weeks after me. I'm like, and that's how

it is every year. And I'm like, oh, I'm so lucky.

Speaker 1: But then he goes two and a half weeks longer

than you.

Speaker 3: No, no, he's done before me, and it's usually by

a couple of days. But yeah, yeah, he's got a maid.

Speaker 1: That's Kyle's school district is made for teachers.

Speaker 2: It really is for great work life balance.

Speaker 3: Because yeah, he hasn't made for sure, but I mean

his job is also.

Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I don't. I don't envy Kyle,

but I know he's really great at his job, so

I would, I would. I appreciate that there are Kyle's

in the world, and you know what, you deserve. Maybe

maybe you do deserve the extra maybe you deserve the

three weeks or whatever and earlier.

Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.

Speaker 1: Okay, Taylor, are you ready to get into today's episode?

Speaker 2: Yes, I'm ready.

Speaker 1: So I'm going to shout out my main source for

this week, which is NBC News. I read an article

there and got lots of information. Also read an article

from the Crime Library. It's just whatever. They were very good.

I knew a little bit about this case, and they

kind of they made they put the pieces together that

I had clearly been missing the first time I heard this,

because I was like, this doesn't make any sense, and

they really pieced it together for me. They told it

to me like I was five, and I appreciate them. Yeah, Okay,

here we go. It was Saturday, August second, two thousand

and three, and Shirley Kopitski was concerned that she had

not heard from her thirty her thirty seven year old

son Glenn in a few days. She hadn't been able

to reach him by phone, and that was very unusual

because they spoke regularly almost every day. But so going

three days without hearing from him was like, WTF.

Speaker 2: That's weird.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Shirley had been out of town, and when she

got home that's when she really started to worry that

she hadn't been ample reaching. You know, she was kind

of I don't know if she was on vacation, but

she was like, it's okay, I'm doing my own thing whenever.

But then she got home, she's like, okay, now it's

been some time, right. So on August second, she decided

to go to his house, and upon entering his home,

she found her son naked and deceased on the floor

in his living room. When Shirley got to the house,

she found that her son's back door was locked, which

was super unusual because he always kept that door open.

It was he lives in a very rural town in Wisconsin,

so maybe lock the front door, but you keep the

back one open. I can come and go as I want.

Mom can come and go as she pleases, that kind

of thing. Glenn lived in a very small town in

Winnebago County, Wisconsin. Oh. Okay, it's like Oshkosh, Wisconsin. It's

that's in Winnebago.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: So it's over by Lake Winnebago obviously, Okay. So Glenn

lived in a very small town in Winnebago County, Wisconsin.

The population of the town was about eighteen hundred people,

so pretty secluded. Kind of looked like he had kind

of a long driveway with just grass as far as

the eye could see around.

Speaker 2: It just sounds about right.

Speaker 1: He wasn't super concerned about his safety. He was a

single bachelor living alone and wanted to be able to

come and go as he pleased, and he liked that

his mom was able to also come and goes she pleased.

When Shirley was in the house, she also noticed that

Glenn's car keys were missing, and she knew that because

he had always left them in the same spot on

his kitchen table, and they were and they were nowhere

to be found. But his car was parked in its

usual spot. So it's August in Wisconsin, and it was

pretty clear that Glenn had been deceased for a couple

of days by the time his mother discovered him, and

the summer heat had taken an effect on Glenn's bodies decomposition,

so much so that the authorities initially thought that he

had died from natural causes. An autopsy was done on Monday,

August fifth, and when the medical examiner turned Glenn's body over.

When the medical examiner turned Glenn's body over, liquefied brain

matter started to come out of the back of his

head through what appeared to be a bullet hole.

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: But it was like, this is just a show. That's

how decomposed it was that they didn't notice until that happened.

It was at that time that they realized Glenn had

been shot in the head. So not only had Glenn

been shot in the head in the back of the head.

During the autopsy, they also realized that what they thought

initially had been just advanced decomposition, they also missed that

he had been stabbed a few times, and due to

the excessive heat in his home, that's why it had

taken that long for them to notice. Wow, so he

was in an advanced stage of decomposition. And they discovered

that he had stab wounds to his back and chest

and the stab wounds were also done post mortem. Oh

so Glenn had been shot and then stabbed twice in

the back and once in the heart and that was

basically all they knew. There was no forensic evidence, there

was no clues at the crime scene. They didn't. Besides

the missing keys, nothing was out of the ordinary. There

was absolutely no other evidence other than Glenn's that had

been there or not evidence, their fingerprints, no one, no DNA. Sorry,

that's where I was like, you know the thing, the thing. Yeah,

there was no other DNA from anyone else other than

Glenn in the house. A physical search turned up zero

evidence at the scene. As I mentioned, Glenn lived in

a secluded area, but when police were canvassing the area,

they went around asking some of his neighbors or people

that lived in the era if they saw anything, you know,

the last week of July into the first week of August,

had anyone seen anything out of the ordinary, And a

neighbor had told the police that a few nights before

Glenn's body had been discovered, he had seen an older

car with square headlights and rectangle tail lights driving slowly

through the area, flashing a bright light, but that was

the only thing that anyone had noticed. It would be

five months before investigators knew who had killed Glenn Kopitski,

and it would be even longer until they knew why.

So the news of this gruesome murder comes out in

this small county in Wisconsin, and obviously this county sense

it is so small, very low crime rate, so hearing

about this very brutal murder, everyone is busy about it.

The community demanded answers. They wanted to know if there

was a murderer on the loose, or is this a

one off had Glenn pissed someone off, you know? Or

is there a killer on Well, obviously there's a killer

on loose, but is there is there a chance that

they're going to kill someone else? So people in the

town started talking what facts were known? What was I

you know, what were what was I doing around the

time of the murder? What were my friends and family

doing around the time? Did they say they were somewhere?

And do I actually know that? You know? So people

are kind of questioning their own friends and family and

it was just your typical small town gossip. But then

one day a boy named Eric had like a flash

in his memory that him and his bff Gary had

been out in this rural in late July shining for deer.

Do you know what shining for deer is?

Speaker 3: I would assume it's using a flashlight looking out your

car looking for deer.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, I'm like, yeah, So, shining for deer,

it's also called spotlighting or jack lighting, is the use

of of usually a really strong flashlight or whatever during

the night to locate deer by catching the reflection in

their eyes. Got The practice is strictly regulated and entirely

banned during certain times because it's basically legal poaching. It's

on ethical hunting, for lack of a better term, it's

not fair and I don't think you're supposed to hunt

when it's dark.

Speaker 2: Out anyways, that doesn't seem like idea.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, in case it's not a deer, right,

So yeah, it's it's frowned upon. And I do believe

it was when they when they when the boys were

doing it, it wasn't during a time that they could

be doing it, so they were doing illegally obviously. So anyways,

Eric remembers that him and his bff Gary went out

shining for deer around the end of July. He hadn't

really thought anything of it because they had done this before,

and he just idolized Gary. Eric knew Gary wasn't involved

in any way, but he did make a mental note

that this secluded area they went shining for deer in

was in a very close proximity to Glenn's house. Eric

was pretty sure that he and Gary had been there

just a few nights before Glenn's actual murder. As I mentioned,

months went by and nobody said anything, and so the

police started looking into Glen Kopitski's background. Who would have

wanted to harm Glenn? This didn't appear to be a

break and gone wrong just because the only thing that

was missing was car keys. This wasn't a robbery. Glenn

was a specific target, and so the police started looking

into Glenn's background. They looked at the typical suspects, family members, friends,

stuff like that, but there wasn't really anyone like that

in Glenn's life. There was, obviously, they had obviously spoken

with his mother and she was never a suspect. She

was out of town when he died, and Glenn wasn't married.

He lived alone, So there's nobody to kind of look

at in his family, right, So they started to look

in to see if he had any kind of like

secret relationship of any kind of any kind. They looked

to see if someone had a grudge against him, but

still they found nothing. He didn't really have any friends

to speak of he had a dog that he brought

with him everywhere and that he called his best friend.

But again it was literally just his mom. Oh, I know, Glenn.

I saw in one article that they were like he

was almost weirdly close with his dog, and it's like, no,

he called his dog his best friend.

Speaker 3: Because he has no one else, Yeah, Glenn, I know.

Speaker 1: Investigators were looking at reasons that someone might have selected

Glenn as a target. Maybe they chose him because he

was so isolated. Maybe it was because his house was

so secluded, it could have been the like and it

was kind of an ideal place to commit a murder

if you were going to. So even though Glenn did

live such a solitary life, he did have a weird

knack for drawing attention to himself. While looking into Glenn's background,

they found that in nineteen ninety six, he had declared

himself a presidential candidate, even though he he was only

thirty years old at the time. He was not successful,

and he lost his five hundred dollars investment that he

put into his campaign. But that kind of weird attention,

like he's just he's very kept himself, but sounds like

he's pretty eccentric, like, yeah, just kind of I'm just

going to go for it. Yeah, he and I get

to it a little bit. But he's in like community theater,

so like clearly he likes it. But yeah, that also

people think he's weird. Yeah, and I want I just

want to say, I wish being a theater kid didn't

have such a weird like aura around it, because I

think I would have thrived in theater if I wasn't

so worried about people making fun of me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's really fair.

Speaker 3: And sometimes I think about like celebrities though, yes, how

many of them started there, and I'm like, look at

them now, I know, so.

Speaker 1: Kids be in theater like being the weird theater kid, Yeah,

isn't it isn't.

Speaker 2: It'll be above and beyond everyone else.

Speaker 1: Yes, I wish, like, if nothing else, I wish I

had some kind of like I obviously I can't sing

and that's fine, but like I could have been a

background actor. I think I would have thrived as like

one of the three blind mice or whatever.

Speaker 3: I don't Yeah, my dream role would be to be

like a dead person on a gurney, Yes, and a

comfy hospital down with some blankets.

Speaker 1: Background actor in like any like the pity just like

put me in a bay two or whatever.

Speaker 3: Yes, or give me like a bloody knee and I'm

on a gurney.

Speaker 2: Yes, eat some chips. Yeah, I'll ask Santos for some

a sandwich or something.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds lovely.

Speaker 1: Yeah. See I get so jealous now because so famously

on my last podcast with my sister, I was like,

I hate musicals. Fuck musicals. Musicals are the worst, blah

blah blah. What I don't like I've realized is I

don't like musical movies. Interesting, I think I would love

Broadway or like any kind of live performance.

Speaker 2: Yeah, So why do you think that differences?

Speaker 1: Though? I think if I want to watch someone sing,

I wanted to be a music video, Like if it's

gonna be on my television, I think it's gonna I

want it to be a music video where I know.

But like I can't stand when it's like why did

you go to the market today? You know, like that

shit passes out? Just answer the fucking question.

Speaker 2: That's fair. When it's like dialogue and music, you don't

like that? Yes, I can agree with that completely.

Speaker 1: There was a trend on TikTok probably a year ago

now where it was from Hamilton, and I've never seen Hamilton,

but I've watched these skits. It's like Alexander to come

back to Okay, oh my gosh, Okay, see like I think,

and just watching the people reenact them hilarious. I think

I would love to see it on a big stage.

I think it being on my television in my own

home would piss me the fuck off.

Speaker 2: That's fair. I understand that completely.

Speaker 3: I feel like as I've gotten older, I'm like enjoying,

like wicked change my life.

Speaker 1: Okay, I still haven't seen it, Okay, Bud, I am

holding out because I got beef with Ariana Grande.

Speaker 2: That's fair. I think that's fair. I won't say more

than that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair. I with that, though. I do appreciate

that she's stepping out of the spotlight and hopefully she

gets to help she deserves.

Speaker 2: We all want her to get up.

Speaker 3: Anyways, I was gonna say, but like the Greatest Showman,

I just recently watched that for the first time in

my adult life.

Speaker 1: Do you think I would like it? I love Zindeia.

Speaker 2: I say give it a tryd damn it.

Speaker 1: Say now I'm gonna come back next time and make

Hay Taylor. Guys, I love musicals.

Speaker 2: No, because I will say to you, with musicals it

has to have good music.

Speaker 3: If it doesn't have good music, bye, Yeah, Greatest Shaman

had great music.

Speaker 2: I love Wicked songs. I used to really love hairspray.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: I can't stand like maybe I do like musicals and nuts.

Speaker 1: But I think this is a part of me growing

up is that my sister loved Rent oh yeah, and

she loved hairspray, so I was then. I would go

do stuff with her and she's like, this is what

we're gonna do. And I'm like, why, oh, I don't.

I don't want to actually pass no thing, but yeah,

I Megan is like hair or hair spray. Fuck. Wicked

is her current favorite movie. And she's like, just we'll

just sit down, Megan. I'm not gonna spend the seven

hours have with you. I'm not spending six of them

with someone singing at me, take take me to the theater.

Speaker 3: Except I will say the commercial that came up for

Wicked at the Orpheum, I think the singer I Kyle

was like, do you want to go because he knows

how much I love and the alphabet singing on the commercial,

I was like, no, that girl's She was like, I

can't if you're not Cynthia Rivo, I can't.

Speaker 1: That's not I agree, but that's so unfair. Cyndia is

so good.

Speaker 3: I know she's top tier. So it's like, sorry to

anyone else who comes after her.

Speaker 1: But no, I listened to uh, I listened to a

podcast and both of the hosts are were are on

Broadway and the male just did maybe last summer, just

did a show with Cynthia Rivo, and he just like

he's like, I love her, She's so great, And I

was like, she's Cynthia fucking Arrivo, Like.

Speaker 2: Of course she's great. Yes, there's no.

Speaker 1: It's that part like that could have been me if

I'm not but like if I wasn't scared of being

considered weird in high school instead I was a bitch

same and I just feel like it could have really

gone places. I'm gonna go to New York and I'm

going to accidentally fall in front of Marishika Hargate, okay,

and she's gonna think, you know what, you would be

perfect for a dead body.

Speaker 2: Yes, and saying I know, and I just have to listen.

Speaker 1: Yeah, this is killing.

Speaker 3: Except I will say in even like the Pit or

any of those shows, when they're showing like a dead body,

I look at their chest to see if they're breathing

or their neck like pulse, and.

Speaker 2: They just edit that stuff out.

Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: No, it's like a skill how I don't know, Well,

I don't know. I can't be.

Speaker 2: They're gonna be like Taylor cannot move like that you're dad, I'll.

Speaker 1: Be Actually, you know what, put her in bay. Whatever,

she's gonna have to be alive. She can't do it.

We fucked up.

Speaker 2: We heard the wrong girl. Oh well, those dreams are shot.

Teaching it is.

Speaker 1: Here we are, Yeah, those dreams are shot. Title clerk

it is yeah. Okay, So back to Glen. He declared

himself a presidential candidate when he was thirty years old.

After that, he set his sights a little bit lower

and started running for a state assembly but unfortunately that

didn't work out well for him either. A couple of

years later he tried to run for another assembly seat,

but still no luck. So again, like he's pretty quiet,

kept himself, but at sometimes he's like, I think I'm

just gonna put my name out there and see what happened. Right,

But again, kind of exactly what you and I were

talking about. Maybe we just shoot for the moon and laid.

Speaker 2: In the stars or whatever whatever that saying is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Shirley said that he didn't really seem interested in

any of that stuff. He didn't really also take it serious.

It was he just did that kind of thing. So

that he said that he did, you know what I

mean yeah, he's like, well, one time I was a

presidential candidate, and yeah, he didn't really take it seriously.

He lost five hundred bucks. Honestly, if that's all you lose, yeah,

good for you.

Speaker 2: We should sign up more.

Speaker 1: Things were just good Man Taylor is actually have a

running lesson. Yeah, she said. It was just kind of

this odd ball thing that he did. He was known

to be. He was. He was a well known eccentric.

What they did find out was that he was very vulnerable.

He left his doors unlocked, he lived alone. But for

the most I mean he was he was totally harmless.

I'm not saying like he was like this creepy whatever.

He was just yeah, he never really got into any trouble.

He never created any enemies that they could find. And

he had in his early life. He had been adopted

by Shirley and Shirley's husband. I look Virgil, Shirley and Virgil.

So I'm going to bump me out really quick, so

I apologize. Great Glenn was adopted by Shirley and Virgil

Kopitski after their two biological children had died. Oh, these

poor parents had two children of their own that both

died pretty young. And then they adopted a kid, and

years later he was murdered. Oh my gosh, yeah, they'd like,

I just burying one kid is unimaginable.

Speaker 3: Burying three, Oh my gosh, that is the worst luck

in the world.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh.

Speaker 1: Glenn was super close with his mother. Anytime he was

in trouble, he immediately called her, and Shirley said that

there was no way that something was going on that

she didn't know about. He told her everything. There was

no secret relationship. There was if there, you know, if

someone had been and having it out for him, she

would have known. And so again, the investigators continued to

not find anything. No one that had a vendetta out

against him or anything like that. Glenn had attended college

at the University of Texas and Dallas, where he tried

to do stand up comedy, but after a couple of

years and that didn't really pan out, he returned home,

or he returned back to Wisconsin to live closer to

his parents. When he was a teenager, he was diagnosed

with bipolar disorder, so I think that was kind of

a big reason he wanted to be closer with his parents,

not that anything was wrong with it, but he's like, Hey,

I think I just need a more stable environment. Definitely,

with me living in Texas my parents in Wisconsin, I

don't have that kind of support that I that helps

me thrive. Probably yep. So even though he did move

back to Wisconsin to be close with his parents, he

still really loved to be independent. He lived alone. As

Shirley said, he was eccentric. He was into community theater

and he really enjoyed that. He was one of the

older people who was involved with the community theater, and

he possibly got a reputation for being one of the

oldest ones there. They kind of like in this article,

it kind of made him sound like he was like

the creepy old guy. But I think he just really

liked Yeah, and you know, people probably went on and

stopped doing it because it doesn't pay anything, you know,

like in.

Speaker 2: You're just a hobby more so.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, to be thirty seven and still be

really into it, he probably did get a reputation. But again,

it wasn't like hanging around a bunch of fifteen year olds.

I love fifteen years.

Speaker 3: It was just like He's like, no, I just love theater,

so yeah, yeah, PORKLNN.

Speaker 1: I Yes, seriously. His mother said that she thought that

he did those things because he was lonely. She said,

when you live alone and you're thirty seven years old

and you're not married, what else is there? You kind

of are lonely. So yeah, he is going to go

try and make friends. I do too, Glenn Gleed. I know.

And the fact that he was dead for two days

before he was found and no one really noticed is

kind of a testament to how lonely he was. The

investigation was going nowhere, but they knew, or I should

say they hoped they were going to get a break

in the case. Soon. Someone's going to come forward. If

we keep putting out this information, someone people are going

to keep asking questions. They're going to keep being like,

well maybe my neighbor or my cousin, you know, maybe

they said that they were at Johnny's house, but I

was with Johnny that you know, something's going to come out.

It's a very small community. So they did have that

information from the neighbor about the car and the shining light.

They were hoping if they could just keep giving that

kind of information to different people, someone would remember seeing

the same vehicle with the squarehead lights and the rectangle

tail lights and you know, maybe oh so and so

has that car that kind of thing. Someone knows something,

someone will come forward and after several months of nothing,

they would there would be a break in the case.

This breakthrough did not come because police uncovered some new

clue or anything like that. It came because someone had

bragged about the murder to someone and they told their

secret to the wrong person. Oh my, So Olivia Toma

was the person who came forward, and she said that

she had been really reluctant to tell parts of her story. Ultimately,

Olivia was the person to come forward to the police,

and it was after she became suspicious of her friend Gary,

Gary fuck fucking She says that there's a lot of

details she's not ready to talk about because they're too

difficult for her to kind of even comprehend. So maybe

one day she'll tell the whole story. But this is

kind of what this is all she told the police

when she did come forward. So in the summer of

two thousand and three, that's when Olivia, who is nineteen

years old, became close friend became close friends with Gary Hurt.

Gary Hurt was flawless. Everyone loved fucking Gary. I went

into this whole mean girl's thing, but I'm not gonna

do it. Fine, So this is what people have said

about Gary Hurt in the community. Gary was a really,

really well liked teenager. He was the city's first Eagle

Scout in twenty years. He was an honor student, and

he was six four and two hundred and seventy pounds.

He was on the track team, he wrestled, and he

was the star football player.

Speaker 2: He's Aaron Samuels, basically.

Speaker 1: Basically, I was gonna say he's like, definitely the Regina George,

but You're correct. He is Aaron Samuels. And I don't

know why this is important, but every article said it.

He had a very steady girlfriend. Cool. I was like,

why is that important? But okay. According to the mayor

at the time, Gary had everything going for him. He

could do anything he set his mind too. In fact,

the mayor even helped Gary work on his boy Scout

merit badges. He also worked at Dairy Queen on the weekends.

Everyone liked him, including Olivia, so that summer Olivia and

Gary started getting a lot closer and they could possibly

have been considered dating even though Gary had this girlfriend,

Matty Girlfriends also Gary's girlfriend, and was fourteen. He was seventeen,

which is fine. Everything's fine, Everything is so fine, and

there's just and it is fine. I'm just like, it's

just like, that's fourteen. I had a friend in high school.

We were freshmen. Her boyfriend was a senior. And all

I'm gonna say is there you can tell the difference.

Speaker 3: Yes, that's at those ages.

Speaker 2: That's very different, all right.

Speaker 1: Anyways, Yes, so he had a steady fourteen year old girlfriend,

but he kind of had his eyes on Olivia, and

Olivia definitely had her eyes on him. Gary and Olivia

started having these hard to heart conversations and really getting

to know each other. And one night, when they were

having one of these deep conversations, the conversation kind of

took a turn and they both started to swap their deepest,

darkest secrets. And it was during that time that Gary

turned to Olivia and said, I killed someone to set

the cake. He admitted, So, he admitted to it. He

said that he had murdered this lonely, eccentric guy that

lived on the edge of town, and he had done

it in his own bedroom just to see if he

could get away with it.

Speaker 6: Ah, and Olivia was like, holy shit, but she couldn't

act any type of way, so she did her best

to keep her cool and not freak out, and she

didn't tell anyone for a couple of months after that.

Speaker 1: And around the same time that he's confessing to Olivia,

he also told his best friend Eric, So I just

want to like pause really quick and be like, my deepest,

darkest secret. I cheated on a test. Like I'm not

gonna lie, I cheated on a test. I killed someone

very different, very different, very dad is yeah.

Speaker 3: That yeah, And kudos to Olivia for trying to keep

her cool, because I.

Speaker 1: What, like, huh, I feel like I would black out, yes,

And so I don't know what my reaction would be

because it could be anything of like just like a

blank stare looking through them like what I just like,

especially at such a young age. So Olivia, I believe

it was nineteen Gary seventeen. It's like, I don't know,

I don't know. Yeah, It's unclear to me how it

came out between Gary and Eric, but I think Eric

had brought up the murder to Glenn or to Gary

about Glenn being like it's so weird that we had

been in this close proximity just days before he was killed.

And the belief is that Gary or that Eric said

it to Gary to be kind of like, Okay, isn't

that weird. That's just a coincidence, right, right, And Gary

was like, yeah, totally, totally a coincidence. So he initially

denied it to Eric. And then a couple days later,

Gary and Eric are on the phone and Gary was like,

I lied to you. I did actually kill him, and

Eric again, Eric idolizes Gary. Eric's like you're goofin, You're

so funny. Yeah, no, seriously stopped. And Gary did eventually

convince Eric that he had killed Glenn, and he only

convinced him because he showed him the knife that he

had used and the knife still had on it. And

then he showed Eric that he had Glenn's keys and

he had taken them as a trophy.

Speaker 2: Oh oh, never will understand that.

Speaker 1: No. Eric had idolized Gary so much that even when

Gary showed him the knife and the keys, he still

really didn't believe it, like he did, but he was

like just shocked. Probably yeah yeah, yeah, it's like no, no, no,

Eric said there was nothing he could do to convince

me that he was telling the truth. The knife was

just a knife, the blood could have been from anywhere,

and the keys were just keys. He could not make

me believe that my best friend had done that terrible thing. Also,

even though Gary is, you know, six', four, like THERE'S

i don't understand how tall six four is UNTIL i

see them in comparison with like other. Men and so

there's a picture Of gary That i've seen and he

just like kind of towers over this police, officer AND

i was, like, oh, yeah six' four. Is, tall, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay Gotcha so eric didn't Believe that gary was capable,

of it Especially because gary had told him that there

was no other reason other than he wanted to see

if he could get away. With it that was.

Speaker 3: His.

Speaker 1: Momoentive yikes the more People that, gary told the same

amount of people took, him seriously which. Was. Zero wow

no one. Believed him, it's like what's, that like? Cry wolf.

Mm hmm when he talked about the murder and started

bragging about it to a lot, of people no one.

Believed him he was just, a good upstanding guy and he,

Played football, so yeah he's a.

Speaker 2: Good, guy, boy, scout eagle. Scout, whatever yeah.

Speaker 1: He was, a senior he was on, homecoming court and

he had just accepted a. Football scholarship even as he

continued to brag about, the murder no one took. Him

seriously so he started bringing the knife to school and,

showing people and he Showed people, glenn's keys and still

no one took. Him seriously what kind of power trip

is he?

Speaker 3: On though to, be like is it because people don't

believe Him that, he's, LIKE yes i, Love This like

i'm this great outstanding person that literally people don't even

believe ME that.

Speaker 2: I murdered Someone as i'm.

Speaker 3: Telling them, That's interesting like there has to be some

sort of LIKE.

Speaker 2: Psychologic i, Don't know like.

Speaker 1: That's an, interesting take because my take on it was that, he's,

Like hey i'm the screen up, STATING guy i did this.

Speaker 3: Horrible thing take, Me, seriously okay INTERESTING because i wouldn't have,

that that but that also.

Speaker 1: MAKES sense i was gonna. Say, yours yeah they both

MAKE and i. DON'T know i don't and it probably

is more of your thing That like I'M just.

Speaker 3: I, don't know because maybe he had this really good,

guy image and he, Was like.

Speaker 1: I'm a bad boy, now YEAH like I don't i.

Speaker 7: Don't, know yeah that's. SO interesting i just yeah, to

me he was. Getting, frustrated, Yes.

Speaker 2: INTERESTING yes i can also see. Your side if this,

is YouTube leave it in. The comments what.

Speaker 1: You, think, yeah no seriously let me know, BECAUSE yeah, i,

MEAN yeah i. Don't know he just won't shut the.

Speaker 3: Fuck up that's that's, It's weird like, because Okay telling

olivia when you're spelling your deepest stark, like, okay, wow,

yeah yep and then to tell your, best friend and

then to keep telling people showing the evidence like.

Speaker 2: That's, weird YES so.

Speaker 1: I never actually look to see how many people were

in his. High school but the population is eighteen hundred

people in, this, Town right i'm assuming his high school's not. Very,

big yeah at some point up to like thirty to

forty people.

Speaker 3: Knew well and for no one for how long to

not go to the police and be like he?

Speaker 2: Did, it yes they're, Like no, but like.

Speaker 1: Also he's telling. People this he's still getting nominated, for

homecoming he's still a. Football star he's about to go,

into wrestling which is in. The winter, you know it's

like he's still doing all.

Speaker 8: These things it's just like people literally are like carrious yeah,

wow yeah but like it just shows, that, YEAH yeah

i don't know.

Speaker 2: Me either that's like scary powerful, that.

Speaker 1: Yes to be in.

Speaker 7: That.

Speaker 2: Position.

Speaker 1: Yes wow later in, the Investigation after olivia comes Forward

and Eric and eric and her are interviewed, more extensively

the investigators, asked them why did you wait so long to,

come Forward and eric said he likes to brag about all.

These things he brags all, the time to the point

that you just don't believe anything. He says so eventually

it was basically everyone in the high school had heard about.

THE rumor i saw a number was like thirty to,

forty people which could be half, a hole that could. Be,

fast Yes but gary became so open about talking. About

it he would talk about it during. Football practice he

would talk about it to just about anyone that. Would.

Listen yeah it initially started when he told, One girlfriend.

I'm sorry it initially started that he had just told his,

One girlfriend olivia and his, best friend and neither of

them took, him seriously so one was Going to so

that's why he just kept talking And finally after about,

five months In late December, Early january olivia did decide to.

Say something She and gary continued to get close the more,

they talk and she kind of, felt like maybe this

isn't bullshit NOW that, i like NOW that i really,

know Him now i'm very suspicious and that's why she

chose to. Come Forward on, january first two thousand, And

Four olivia toma came forward to. The police she also

came forward because she was Worried that gary might. Harm

Himself so olivia comes in she, tells them, You Know

gary Hurt Killed, glenn kopitski and the police did not.

Believe her oh, my god like again like this is

the impact That sane THEY and i don't know this

is like exactly what, it was but this is. The

vibe they, were, like no seventeen year old kid, did

this and there's no way he's bragging about it to

anyone who. Will listen this kid's just. Blowing Smoke and

olivia was able to provide details about the murder that

had never been released to, the public and that's when they,

were like wait, a minute take, a seat who did

you say This Was? Gary hurt you? Say, interesting okay

and of course everyone knew, him right so they, were,

like wait we heard. You wrong say is say? Him,

again no we still heard. You wrong say, it again and, she,

said yeah It. Was. Gary wow so she come Up toward,

january first two thousand. And Four on january, twenty eighth

two thousand, and four the police recorded a phone Call

between Olivia and gary where he described more details of.

The crime gary also stated in that call that one

of the reasons that he killed this but He, killed

glenn was to see if he could get away.

Speaker 2: With it why did this take twenty?

Speaker 1: Seven days, Great, question TAYLOR wish i could answer it.

For you that, It's alarming that Is, it's gary. So,

alarming yeah he was bragging to people all over, the

place so him saying it to her again on the

phone was no big thing. To him he had probably

told her this a handful. Of times at. This point,

he's like let me tell. It, again yeah do you

need more details.

Speaker 2: This TIME because i.

Speaker 1: Got. Him yeah but this conversation was different because this

one had detectives on the line so that they could

hear it firsthand from. His mouth so the, Next day january,

Twenty ninth gary hurt was called into the principal's office

from his high school and he was arrested and charged

with first. Degree murder they took what evidence they could.

From him they took the knife and the sheath it was.

Kept in it was TESTED for dna and they were

able to match the blood on the Knife To glenn.

Kopitski's blood they also determined during the Investigation that glenn

had been shot in the head with a shotgun that

had never, been recovered but they were able to track

down a Record that gary had owned this said shotgun

before and when they asked him, about it he was

never able to produce it. To them, they're, like well

we had a record of you, buying it where. Is it.

Speaker 2: All of, a sudden he wants to be secrets of.

Speaker 1: Here's, my knife here are. The keys.

Speaker 2: I'm gonna hide. THE shots.

Speaker 1: I can't maybe because that's like because the sabounds were,

post mortem so maybe since that was the thing that actually.

Killed him that he, was like mom's, the, word, yeah,

whatever strange THAT'S what i didn't even think, About, that.

Speaker 2: Like all of, a sudden you're choosing to. Withhold, evidents, Okay, okay, gary.

Speaker 1: Again this is not this isn't funny. At All like

TAYLOR and i have been very clear that we are

very empathetic and we Feel. For Glenn, but gary what?

The fuck what?

Speaker 7: The?

Speaker 2: Fuck, gary yeah.

Speaker 1: They were able to they were able to get the

neighbor To identify gary's car as the car that had

been Shining for deer a couple of nights before. The

murder even during all, of this he's, been arrested he's

been charged, with murder and people are still coming out

of the woodwork to. Support. Him, stop yes oh, my gosh,

his classmates his boss at, dairy queen, the mayor the,

oh yeah there was just a logical explanation to all.

Of this something, you know this isn't what you think

it is that everyone's just. Confess used. IT'S fine, I

like i would love to live in that kind, of delusion,

but again you would want to, protect.

Speaker 2: Yourself right. That's Insane.

Speaker 1: So gary is a. Football star he's such a star

that during all, of this in the winter of his,

senior year he's offered a full scholarship to play Football

At Saint Cloud. State university, what yeah this is after?

THE yep i mean it's like it's, during yes, So

like i'm sure he got it in, the winter but

like they weren't Immediately like i'm gonna take. That, Back yeah, they're, like, no, no,

it's okay. It's.

Speaker 2: Gonfer yeah in case this, Isn't, true.

Speaker 1: Yeah we want to make sure we have Him At.

Saint cloud oh. My gosh due to his, academic record

his status As An, eagle scout and his accomplishments as,

an athlete he was offered that full Scholarship To Saint

cloud State In, Saint, cloud minnesota home Of, the huskies

where our Dear friend. Lars, went yes we're real close.

Speaker 2: To home, y yikes our Dear friend Lars.

Speaker 1: And gary had planned on studying.

Speaker 3: Criminal justice, oh ironic like this is of course.

Speaker 1: He was, of course of course. He was, oh meanwhile

as in, Like again i'm sure it was offered, to

him and as he's, being arrested it comes out that

they weren't Immediately like i'm gonna take, that, Back right

so while the it's hitting the news and stuff, like

that he is currently sitting in jail on a four

hundred thousand. Dollars bond so, you know police were able

to piece together what they thought had Happened to Glenn,

and gary and eventually he did give them. A confession

gary had said that the night that He and eric

had been out shining, for deer that had been his,

dry run a dry run to see how quietly he

could get down, this road the gravel road that led

Straight to. Glenn's house he wanted to see if they

could go unnoticed so that he could return at a

later Date to glenn's home and.

Speaker 3: Murder him wow premeditated on the night of, The murder

so It's either july Thirtieth or july, thirty first it

was unclear which day he was actually murdered, to Me.

Speaker 1: So gary went and completely repeated. His course he went

down the road exactly what He and eric. Had done

gary then slipped out of. His car he went around

the back Door of. Glenn's house he Went into, glen's

room where he was asleep in. His bed gary had,

surprised Him and glenn got up and, asked, him like

why the fuck are you in, my House and gary

made him. Turn around Gary shot glenn in the back

of the head in the back of the head and killed,

Him instantly And after glenn, Was dead gary decided To stab,

glenn twice twice in the back and then once in

the heart before leaving And taking glenn's keys as. A

trophy so that's that's, his CONFESSION. M m but he'll change.

His Story so gary goes to Trial in january of

two thousand. And five the theory for the prosecution is

EXACTLY what i just, told you because That was, glenn's

statement blah. Blah blah but once they hit, the courtroom

a bombshell was about to be dropped for the Prosecution

because gary's attorney got up in court and said that

wasn't what happened, at all and he offered what actually

happened for the very first time. That night and this

is the of events that actually took place to lead

Up To glen. Kapitski's murder let's. Hear It gary hurt

had homosexual urges that intensified when, he drank and those

urges had led to a sexual Encounter between Gary. And

glenn after, The encounter gary had bottled up this rage

and sexual phobia over what had happened between Him, and

glenn and he just let the rage just build and

build inside of him until he couldn't. Take, it anymore

and he had to return back To. Kill glenn so

this is NOW what I think gary. ACTUALLY testified i

got on the stand and testified to his. New events

so here's Exactly what gary. Said happened gary said that

the Night of, july thirtieth he was sitting on top

of his car underneath, the bridge drinking and Listening. To

nirvana he'd finished six moles liquors and fifteen shots of

Vodka when glenn drove up to. His car the two

guys started flirting and they decided to take the party

Back to. Glen's house Once At glenn's gary performed oral Sex,

on glenn and the whole night had been. Completely consensual

gary had wanted to do it and had. Participated willingly

after they, Were done gary had returned to his car and.

Fell asleep when he woke up and had, sobered up

he realized what he had done and he had become

enraged over the fact that he had had a sexual

encounter with. A man gary said that he had been

battling with not understanding his, own sexuality and he had

been taught that homosexuality was, a sin and so he

felt so grossed out and disappointed. In himself he said

that he believed that a homosexual act was not as

bad as raping or, torturing someone but it was worse.

Than murder so murder homosexuality raw, yeah, Yeah okay so because,

Of that gary hurt pled not guilty by reason? Of? Insanity, what,

yeah yeah it's a gay. Panic defense oh my people do.

IT well i DON'T think i don't know if it's a.

LOT anymore i don't think. It is actually the people

suis shit all? The time that.

Speaker 2: Is insane.

Speaker 1: An expert witness for the defense Said that gary was

in the middle of, a psychotic, depressive reaction although he

had no history of. Mental problems the assistant district attorney

emphasized that the sexual encounter had never come up at all.

Until trial they also asked this expert Witness if gary

would rather have had his parents believe he was a

cold blooded killer or. A homosexual the witness answered that

it would be very difficult for a teenager in a

religious family to admit homosexual feelings. Or activities gary's parents

believed their son's story about the sexual Encounter, with glenn

and that he would be willing to risk life imprisonment

to keep that secret. To himself and yet here, you

are and yet here you are.

Speaker 3: With, everyone, yeahing yeah m.

Speaker 1: Oh my glenn's parents said later that there was no

way the sexual incomenor. Had happened, but, okay Yeah and

i'm not Saying that glenn's. Not gay that never, came up, but,

like no.

Speaker 3: It didn't only my only question is is do you

know why He?

Speaker 2: Picked glenn like had he been like what did? He

know he was like a loner in a way and.

Speaker 1: LIVED alone i believe they had met through the. COMMUNITY

theater i don't know in what kind of but, like

again very, small, town right they kind of, They, knew

yeah at least At least gary Knew who. Glenn was

he knew he was, A loner he knew that he

was kind of.

Speaker 2: Maybe an easy. Target type he was.

Speaker 1: Very, VULNERABLE okay.

Speaker 2: I see the.

Speaker 1: Prosecution maintained through the entire trial that they did not

believe that the sexual encounter had, ever happened and that

there was no forensic evidence to suggest that it had,

ever happened because there was no Evidence that gary had

been drunkenly in. The home there was no. Hair, fingerprints

again like if he had had six malt liquors and

fifteen shots. Of vodka there's gonna be, a.

Speaker 3: Handprint, totally yeah you're not thinking coherently enough to leave.

Speaker 2: No, traces, no.

Speaker 1: Yeah especially if it's like a. Sexual, encounter yeah just like,

walk in drop to, your, knees give give him.

Speaker 3: Oral yeah and then, lee yeah no, no good try

on yeah no no and of, course yeah SO.

Speaker 1: No dna it. Didn't happen but the trial lasted. Five,

days ultimately the jury rejected his insanity defense and found

him guilty of first or, gree Murder And gary hurt

was sentenced to life. In prison it is believed that

He idolized Leopold, and lobe which there was the. Same

thing they called it the. Perfect crime they killed this

boy thinking that they just basically just want to see if.

They could but they were caught instantly because one of

them had dropped their glasses and only three people like

in the world had worn, those glasses one of them being,

oh yeah so it was this. Whole. Thing, yeah anyways

but they believe that That's what gary, was, like well

that was in like that was really, early on sometime

in the early nineteen hundreds And so, gary's, Like well

i'm so, much, smarter right but then shut the. Fuck,

up literally, my, God literally so that is the story

of the Murder Of. Glenn kopitski, but again, like it

it makes me really sad to think About if gary

would have just shut the, fuck Up that glenn's murder

probably would have been.

Speaker 3: Unsolved totally it sounds and even if maybe he had

told like even just like his Best friend eric or,

something like it probably could have stayed.

Speaker 2: Under wraps AND.

Speaker 3: Because i didn't, believe, it no and he wouldn't have

spread it because he'd probably, be like that's such, a

no no one would, believe that.

Speaker 1: You know, and like and clearly he was itching To

tell olivia yeah for. ONE reason, I mean i truly

believe that he was like She thinks, i'm cool She thinks,

i'm hot SHIT because i killed, yeah exactly and ultimately she, was,

like hey wrong. Audience, man yes, oh gosh it's just

it just makes me really sad to think. About, that

yeah if he would have been.

Speaker 2: Thank god he.

Speaker 3: Wasn't smart yeah, oh, yeah, yeah yes that family obviously

deserves closure, and yeah but.

Speaker 1: It also makes me so if you're willing to go

to court and say that you do have these homosexual thoughts.

AND whatever i wonder if there is truth. To that

not that not that they're truth to them, hooking, up

RIGHT but i wonder if they're if, he's like well this,

is true maybe this is my TIME and i can

just say this is. My motive, BUT yeah i just,

wonder like were you just were? You such you lived

in a, small town you were a, football wrestling. Homecoming

whatever you're supposed to be the stud but you. Like.

Men right that's a sad.

Speaker 3: Thought too it is because because of his first confession

and then him switching, TO that i feel like people

are also probably like a lot of people would, be,

like well that's. Not true you're just trying to, make

yeah insanity. Defense whatever but then if there is, any,

truth yeah that's that's.

Speaker 1: Really sad like he THINKS like i did this, horrible thing,

And right. I'm, gay YEAH if i put, Them together

i'll get a lighter Sentence and, i'm, Gay right and people, are,

like actually we, don't believe we don't believe that.

Speaker 2: You're, yes yeah also would.

Speaker 3: Be, sad yeah has anything come out, if that if

there is any.

Speaker 2: Truth to KNOW it's.

Speaker 1: I like so the LAST article i BELIEVE that i

saw WAS from i think two thousand and five when he.

Was sentenced so for twenty years he's basically stayed out of.

The SPOTLIGHT and i think every until his appeals, ARE

up i think like every six months he was able

to appeal up into a, certain amount saying that, like

NO actually i. Was insane oh? Gay, Help yeah like

and that's the, other THING like i, DON'T know i,

don't know IT just i. Don't know it makes me

just so sad that he that his, parents then because

of what, he said, believed, that yeah he did do

this because we shamed him. Into, it.

Speaker 2: Yeah yikes.

Speaker 1: Well it's, not funny. It's sad but it's just like

we they were willing to, be, like yeah we believe

that he would much rather be considered a murderer than

for us to know. He's, gay yeah that.

Speaker 2: Is, Absurd, well taylor thank you for.

Speaker 1: Being, here yes any other having? Final thoughts Justice? For? Glenn,

yeah yeah community theater, THAT like, I like i remember

hearing the story and first, of All getting Glenn and

gary confused basically the. WHOLE time i listened to it the,

first TIME and i, was, like wait? What happened AND

then i, was, like, oh okay they, had sex and

so LIKE when i was reading, THE articles i, was,

like okay so what you want me, To, believe gary

is that you had sex, with him, got sober waited a,

whole day and then the next night you. Went back, yeah, no,

no no that. Didn't. Happen yeah now, if that if

you guys had a sexual encounter and then like, months

later it's still eating. You, alive sure but you didn't

just sober up and, you're, like god, damn, it, RIGHT

yes i. Must murder that. Didn't, happen no, so, no

okay thank you for.

Speaker 2: Being, here yes OF course i.

Speaker 1: Love you. Love you sources for. THIS week i read

a wonderful ARTICLE In nbc News Called eagle scout accused of.

THRILL kill i read an article In The, CRIME Library

abc News And, news Weekly. And wikipedia the fullest of

my sources will be in my. Show notes you can

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