Leigh Occhi - Part 2

CW: This episode contains discussions of child sexual assault. Please listen with care. If you or someone you know has been affected by sexual assault, help is available. RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24 hours/day. Call 1-800-656-4673.

13-year-old Leigh Occhi was left alone for an hour on the morning of August 27, 1992. In that short window of time, something violent happened in her Tupelo, Mississippi home. Blood, hair, and clothing were all left behind, but Leigh was gone.

The remnants of Hurricane Andrew washed away potential clues, and no trace of Leigh was found. Soon, the whispers started about someone close to Leigh: Vickie Felton, her mother. But According to Vickie, there was someone else who police needed to look at: a man named Oscar “Mike” Kearny; Leigh’s Sunday School teacher. Could a horrific crime committed nine months after Leigh’s disappearance hold the answers in her case?

If you have any information about the disappearance of Leigh Occhi, please contact the Tupelo Police Department at (662) 841-6491, or Crime Stoppers of Northeast Mississippi at 1-800-773-TIPS.

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[SPEAKER_00]: dark cast network, indie pods with a dark side.

[SPEAKER_01]: 13-year-old Lee Ochi was left alone for an hour on the morning of August 27, 1992.

[SPEAKER_01]: In that short window of time, something violent happened in her two-polymesis at the home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Blood, hair, and clothing were all left behind, but Lee was gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: The remnants of Hurricane Andrew washed away potential clues and no trace of Lee was found.

[SPEAKER_01]: Soon, the whispers started about someone close to Lee.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her mother, Vicky Felton, but, according to Vicky, there was someone else who police needed to look at.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee's Sunday school teacher.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could a horrific crime committed nine months after Lee's disappearance hold the answers in her case?

[SPEAKER_01]: When a person goes missing, there's a special kind of pain in the not knowing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to tell you the stories that those who never came home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Today, I want to tell you the story of Lee Ochi.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Conan Gallagher.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Ethan Flick.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is, and then they were gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back everyone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining us once again for Part 2.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Kona.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Ethan.

[SPEAKER_01]: And where there has been a wife team behind this podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Each week I tell you this story of an unsolved missing person's case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ethan doesn't know anything about the case going into the episode and is here to provide his reactions and questions in real time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully asking so this scene once you have it home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you haven't heard last week's episode, make sure you go and listen to that first.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about the full timeline of Leeds disappearance and her family dynamic.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just as a quick refresher, if it's been a week or whatever, since you've listened to it, Lee Ochi had just turned 13 years old and lived with her mother, Vicki Feltin, in Tupelo, Mississippi.

[SPEAKER_01]: Vicki and her second husband, Barney Yarbaro, had recently separated.

[SPEAKER_01]: And on the morning of August 27th, 1992, Vicki had left for work and Lee was home alone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee and Vicki had had breakfast together, and Lee's grandmother was going to pick her up later and take her to an open house at her middle school.

[SPEAKER_01]: The tail end of her can Andrew was heading toward Tupelo, however, and the weather was terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Vicky was concerned about Lee, so she called home twice, but didn't get an answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: She drove home only to find the garage door open and blood stains throughout her house, some of which were still wet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Vicky called police around 9 a.m. to report her daughter missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee had only been alone for an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: Immediately suspicion fell on Vicky's shoulders.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were rumors that Lee was being abused.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee's stepfather had a solid alibi for that morning and passed a polygraph, but Vicky failed three.

[SPEAKER_01]: One administered by the Tupolo Police Department and two administered by the FBI.

[SPEAKER_01]: According to Lee's father, Donald Ochi, Vicky didn't call him to tell him Lee had gone missing until a day later.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even then, she didn't mention that blood was found.

[SPEAKER_01]: She told Don that Lee had run away, and it wasn't until days later, maybe even a week, that she finally said that blood had been found in the home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I do want to talk about that, because I do question that aspect of Dawn's account.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tupel O Police started investigating Lee's case right away, so it's a little hard for me to believe that he wouldn't have heard more details about Lee's disappearance from them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know when they contacted him, but you would assume the crime scene itself indicates that obviously something violent happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even before they typed the blood, this is not a scene where they're like, oh, she ran away.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they immediately start looking at suspects.

[SPEAKER_02]: And one big one would be an estranged father.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to imagine that they would have called him maybe not that first day because I think they were focused on finding her finding her right thinking she was near the house like that was the focus.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I can absolutely see Vicki being the first one to tell him maybe the next morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then I would think two people a police would have contacted him that day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Probably or you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: perhaps the day after but not a week later or whatever, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like they would have mentioned something, maybe not given him a ton of information because they're still trying to figure out like if he is a suspect where he was, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like the idea that he didn't know about the blood for a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do question a bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, again, he didn't say that until 2017 decades, 25 years.

[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, in fact, time line in his memory may have been a little skewed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in 1998, which is still a years later, but, you know, six years as president 25, he told a reporter that he believed to be was dead from day one when Vicki told him that she was missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he thought that she had been beaten to death in that house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So those two things don't exactly line up to me, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that there's anything nefarious there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that it's, you know, your thoughts, your perceptions, your memories, six years versus twenty-five years, and you know, things shift, like, it's not like facts just stay in a vault in your mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: Especially, especially not around a traumatic event.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: In any case, Vicki's behavior has definitely caused a cloud of suspicion to hang over her head for the last 34 years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now to my knowledge, Donald has never come out and specifically said that he believes his ex-wife killed his daughter, but it's pretty clear that he doesn't think it's outside of the rumble possibility.

[SPEAKER_01]: But as I mentioned at the end of the last week's episode, Vicki has been saying for decades that there's someone out there who is a much better suspect

[SPEAKER_01]: So now, let's talk about Oscar McKinley Curns, or Mike, as he was known.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Curns was a cabinet maker, and a Sunday school teacher at Holy Trinity Lutheran Church in Tupelow, the church that we and her mother attended.

[SPEAKER_01]: He also taught at the Church's Vacation Bible School.

[SPEAKER_01]: He knew Lee and they shared a lot of horses.

[SPEAKER_01]: Though reports differ as to how well they knew each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some people who attended the church said that they like interacted in group settings, you know, in Sunday school and vacation Bible school, but not on a one-on-one level and not outside the church.

[SPEAKER_01]: While other people have made it sound like they might have spent time together at horse staples, like doing things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know, I don't know which one is true.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I'm not clear on because of differing reports is when his name first came up in Lee's case.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's never reported on in any of the early news articles, which doesn't mean he wasn't being looked at.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do find it interesting that Vicki has openly and repeatedly said that she believes he's the one who took her daughter, but she wasn't saying that in the beginning when suspicion was falling on her.

[SPEAKER_01]: As I've mentioned, Vicki spoke to the press somewhat frequently in the early days, and she was considered the number one suspect if not by police then certainly by the town gossips.

[SPEAKER_01]: If she was concerned about this guy she went to church with, it seems to mean that she would have brought this up publicly during that time, but, you know, that's just me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's also a possibility that Kurn's was responsible for lease ofduction and Vicki simply didn't see the warning signs, and that's why she didn't bring him up initially because she didn't suspect him at the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: But timing is important.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I'm bringing it up is because of what happened nine months after Lee disappeared.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Kerns abducted a teenage girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was a ninth grader.

[SPEAKER_01]: He knew through that same church that he attended with Lee and Vicki.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that this is nine months later.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: May of 1993.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we don't know when exactly Vicki started pointing fingers at him.

[SPEAKER_01]: correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing public, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if he was on her radar prior to this, or if she heard about this and was like, wait a second.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same Sunday school, but yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, people who suspect Vicki is responsible for least disappearance believe that because this event happened, Mike did this, he became a convenient pathsy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because yes, he is clearly a bad guy, but maybe it's just a coincidence that Vicki used to draw suspicion to someone else.

[SPEAKER_01]: And listen, maybe that's what happened.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Based on what I had read online, when I was putting this original episode together, my current was going to be a relatively small part of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I said in last six episodes that I was like 80% done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: but then I found the court documents and you all know I love a court document and after spending time on the phone with three different courts in Mississippi and dealing with their awful court record websites that really makes me appreciate the one we have in Virginia where I can look up things in the entire state.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't have to go county by freaking county.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found enough that I wanted to give Oscar Mike Kerns his very own episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but going forward in this, even though he went by Mike, I'm going to refer to him as the Oscar, because that's what's all on all of these documents, and it just got confusing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now Oscar's mentioned in every write-up on Lee's case that you'll find, but there isn't a lot of depth to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So here's the basic story that you will see everywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nine months after Lee went missing on May 6, 1993, Oscar drove to a 15-year-old girl's home in Memphis, Mississippi, under the pretext of driving her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, he drove her to the woods where he raped her.

[SPEAKER_01]: He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to eight years in prison.

[SPEAKER_01]: He served less than four and was released in 1997.

[SPEAKER_01]: Within about 18 months of getting out, he committed another crime.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what the Daily Journal said in 2017.

[SPEAKER_01]: Although Oscar McKinley, Mike Kerns, is currently in the Mississippi State Penitentiary in Purchman after pleading guilty to kidnapping a Union County couple in 1999 and reaping the wife."

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, see, he's all over the place as far as age goes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's unusual for a rapist.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they don't typically dip into pedophilia if they're into raping adults.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And kidnapping a couple.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's a lot different from kidnapping a 15-year-old.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's basically all the details the

[SPEAKER_01]: If you read any article on Lee, like basically that's just what it says.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, it is extremely suspicious that this man who is the Sunday school teacher at the churchly attended, raped a teenage girl from that same church nine months later.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I was skeptical.

[SPEAKER_01]: Assulting a girl then driving her to school where she could easily call police is quite the de-escalation from the evidence of a bloody attack in Lee's house.

[SPEAKER_02]: right, but maybe we put up more of a fight.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the head injury was not intended.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I do blame that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then he basically had to clean up after himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: right, but it is striking to me that like he commits this crime against Lee, it obviously got violent.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then he took her away from the house, and she has not been found.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then nine months later, instead of escalating, he tells this girl he's going to drive her to school, but instead takes

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see what you're saying, but again, going back to it not being an intentional head injury and, you know, he doesn't want to get caught for murder.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he cleans up after himself there, but ultimately he's a rapist and wants to rape more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not kill more.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not kill more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I'll get to I'll talk a little bit more about the couple here in a minute because that was my question like what about this couple like what were their circumstances of that whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the connection and all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, like who were they, you know, were they also involved with the church like how did that come about.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so this whole thing made me want to see what else I could find out about Oscar currents, because like I said, I mean, that 1999 crime, I had a lot of questions like what was going on here.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing I did was try to find more information about that case in 1999, because that little blurb that I read you is all that any article said.

[SPEAKER_01]: And

[SPEAKER_01]: abducting a married couple is very different from either what he did to that girl in Memphis or what he potentially did to Lee, but I immediately hit a roadblock.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't find any record of current pleading guilty to anything in 1999.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also searched newspaper archives and couldn't find a single article about a couple being kidnapped in Mississippi and the wife being raped.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to me that something like that would make the news, but the only results I found either a newspaper archives or just from online searches were only in articles about Lee, and there were only little plurves just like that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I never saw a single story about that event itself, in either 1999 or 2000, and there were never any more details than what I just read to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now something happened because Oscar Kerns absolutely went back to prison in 2000 and remained there until 2019.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's verified.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that is verified is his entry on the Mississippi State Sex Offender Registry, like that's an official document, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, do we know when he was registered as this expender in, was it 2000 or was it from when he raped the 15-year-old girl?

[SPEAKER_01]: Booth.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you look him up on the state sex offender registry, he has three offenses listed.

[SPEAKER_01]: The first one is from March 31st, 1994, and it says that his offense is statutory rape.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now March 31st, 94, was the date of his conviction.

[SPEAKER_02]: Statutory rape?

[SPEAKER_01]: That part's weird because, again, I looked at the court documents.

[SPEAKER_02]: Statutory rape involves consent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and there was no consent and he was not convicted of statutory rape.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was, he pled guilty to rape.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Period.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know why it's a statutory.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually kind of weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the date matches up perfectly because March 31st was his date of conviction for that case.

[SPEAKER_01]: there are two other offenses listed, dated March 27th, 2000, which fits with the crime committed in 1999 and indjudicated in 2000.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the actual offenses listed don't make sense with the story that's in the articles.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are, rape and kernel knowledge of a child under 14 years of age, and kidnapping if the victim was below the age of 18.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, it wasn't an adult.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it sounds like?

[SPEAKER_02]: Did he kidnap a whole fucking family and then rape the daughter?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, idea!

[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: But rape and colonel knowledge of a child under 14 certainly fits with what he did do in 1993 and what he potentially did to leave.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then my thought was, wait, is it possible that these were somehow all from that first case?

[SPEAKER_01]: And that maybe like he didn't have to register for the other offenses until 2000 when he went back to jail, maybe.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you go back to the entry, there's a location on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the 1994 one says Disoto, Mississippi, which is where that crime took place.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the ones in 2000 say Union Mississippi.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that doesn't sound like the same case to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't sound like I had to register.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I went back to jail for something I did in 1994 to this same person, it's two different counties.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking maybe if he goes back to jail in Union County, he then had a register with that county.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a statewide database, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like why?

[SPEAKER_01]: And let's not forget that

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is under 14.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it also says statutory rape when it was rape.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe there could be some sort of some mistake there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think again, under the age of 14 and over the age of 14 are two different charges.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think like that's actually a very important distinction legally.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that that would be just like a simple clerical error.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this doesn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why the episodes late, this is why it's too hard because this wasn't making any sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I searched Union County's records because that's what the registry says that in 2000, he had to register because of an event in Union County, I couldn't find anything in Union County with Oscar Kerntas name on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: not a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I even called all three courts in the county in hopes of getting a key number thinking that maybe I was just having an issue with the name, you know, whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: They couldn't find anything either.

[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to three clerks in three courts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody could find it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was, however, able to find the court record on his first abduction into Soto County.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I found a lot of interesting details inside, many of which seem incredibly relevant to Lee's case.

[SPEAKER_01]: As I mentioned, Oscar Currence went to the girl's house under the guise of driving her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's mentioned in all the articles about Lee, but I learned a lot more details.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we drove to our house, but he ended up taking her to a nearby days in and tried to sexually assault her, tried to sexually assault her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently what happened was he took her to the days in under a pretext of like he needed to take some measurements because, you know, he was a cabinet maker and I think he was going to be redoing, telling her he was like going to be redoing some of the rooms or, you know, whatever, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's like, yeah, just come with me to the hotel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me take these measurements, then I'll take you to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we got her in the room, tried to sexually assault her, and was like, hey, if you don't do what I want you to do, I'm going to call your parents, and I'm going to tell them that you're a whore, you know, like, whatever, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, call my dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I don't even know his work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Number of a call, I don't care.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he was like kind of taken a back by it and like bailed kind of and was like, you know it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just get back in the car.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll drive you to school now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he gets her back in the car doesn't drive her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: He drives her to a wooded area.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, yeah, he kept on driving.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, where are you going?

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't the right way.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, whatever, whatever kept on making excuses, drove her to the woods.

[SPEAKER_01]: at which point he took a knife out and threatened her.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he parked, he pulled out a knife from the underneath the armrest of the car, which he said.

[SPEAKER_01]: He told her to get out of the car and then made her undress him and then undress herself and lie on her clothes while he raped her.

[SPEAKER_01]: He then

[SPEAKER_01]: and then drove her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now the two details about the knife and changing the clothes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Match with the evidence that we have in Lees case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't have an evident any evidence of a knife being used.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, but it makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense that he was threatening her with a knife.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how this whole thing started.

[SPEAKER_01]: The girl made a full statement to police about what happened that day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I'm not going to go into most of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this section feels potentially relevant.

[SPEAKER_01]: quote, he started poking at my leg with it, the knife.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he told me to get out on the driver's side.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I didn't want to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said, do you want me to hit you?

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, well, I'm going to if you don't get out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he forced me out on the driver's side.

[SPEAKER_01]: He made me walk.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was poking the knife in my back, and quote, she also said that at one point, he grabbed her by the neck and threw her.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he grabbed Lee by the neck and threw her, that could account for the blood and hair on the doorway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Police also said at the beginning of Lee's investigation that the height of that blood stain coincided with somebody who is about five feet tall.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee was four foot 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what I immediately pictured before I even knew about this,

[SPEAKER_01]: was somebody picking Lee up by the neck, lifting her up and slamming her into the doorway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's always what I had pictured in my head, and then I read this.

[SPEAKER_01]: when this girl says that current grabbed her by the neck and threw her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's his MO.

[SPEAKER_02]: The only difference is here, it's in an open field versus in a house where there's obstacles and rooms to run into and doors to slam and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and what's important about this is that it answered one of the big questions I had about

[SPEAKER_01]: the attack that he was convicted for, which was their violence involved.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, obviously, it wasn't a rape as violent.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what I mean is did he beat her?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did he hit her?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, was there something like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously, there was a violent struggle in least case.

[SPEAKER_01]: And while this incident didn't result in the, the same violence, it could have, like, you know, he threatened her with that type of violence.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some other interesting information from the victim statement is that she was asked by the investigator if Kerns had ever made sexual advances toward her or any other girls that she knew of prior to this assault.

[SPEAKER_01]: She said, no, now this is especially relevant because she had known current for the majority of her life.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was 15 at the time of this attack and said she had known him for 13 years.

[SPEAKER_01]: 13 years and she had never seen a red flag from this guy up until the day he attacked her.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds as though she didn't have much or even any contact with Kerns outside of church, so it doesn't seem like a grooming situation either.

[SPEAKER_01]: She told the officer that Kerns had gotten her phone number and address from her friend who she went to church with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kerns also asked the friend about all of the victims background information, family, friends, things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like he didn't already have that information, he hadn't been forming a relationship with this girl over the years, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He fixated on her and just actor.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes me wonder.

[SPEAKER_02]: If the same thing happened to Lee.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if he had ever asked anybody about her, Curns also didn't just show up at her house that morning to drive her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that wasn't a thing that he did, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He had actually called her earlier that morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said that he had overheard her and her friend talking about family problems that the victim had been having.

[SPEAKER_01]: you wanted to come over and talk to her about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how this started.

[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't normally drive her to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have that type of relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: To her, this was her nice, concerned Sunday school teacher.

[SPEAKER_01]: who was worried about her home life.

[SPEAKER_01]: She told them that he could come over and that basically they could talk and he could just drive her to school, you know, because she was like in the middle of getting ready for school.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so she's like, yeah, sure, like we can talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to give me a ride, we can do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as we talked about in part one, Lee was also having family problems.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could he have weasled his way into her life the same way?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did he target girls who seemed vulnerable?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who seems like they didn't have a good family life who didn't seem like they had strong parental support?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, this, this all fits that the two crimes are almost identical with the exception of obviously least went south.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: in a way that it doesn't seem like he was expecting it to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: This girl, who he attacks, says that she had known current for basically her entire life that he had never made any advances toward her.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if he was involved with Lisa's appearance, it would absolutely make sense that Vicki didn't see any red flags and wouldn't have thought to bring him up to police when Lisa initially went missing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because he was just the Sunday school teacher.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he had never been creepy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody had ever complained about him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he was a good guy, everybody liked him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he wasn't off grooming kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't off like buying the little presents and trying to get them alone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, none of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just apparently became fixated and decided to attack.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I would kill to see the phone records in least case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did a call come in from Oscar Curns that morning?

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, also from a holiday in, yeah, or days in, but yeah, right, did Vicki actually call like she said she did, you know, were there any outgoing calls from Lee that morning that would prove that she was alive that morning and not killed the night before as some people believe, you know,

[SPEAKER_01]: Curing's victim also made a victim impact statement via a written form, and that form is in her records.

[SPEAKER_01]: On that form, there's a place for additional concerns.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this next part blew my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: She wrote, quote, I have recently learned that this man has raped other girls after me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Will he be trialed at the same time for these charges when he is trialed for the ones he committed against me?

[SPEAKER_01]: End quote.

[SPEAKER_01]: after her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her attack happened in May 1993.

[SPEAKER_01]: This statement was written in October of that year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her answer was arrested and released on a $30,000 bond pretty quickly after the assault.

[SPEAKER_01]: So is she saying that he was reaping girls while he was out on bond?

[SPEAKER_02]: Seems like it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does, because on November 10th, 1993, just days or weeks after she wrote that statement, a motion was filed to revoke current's bail.

[SPEAKER_01]: In it, it says, quote,

[SPEAKER_01]: On or about October 7, 1993, the defendant is charged with committing the crimes of rape and aggravated assault.

[SPEAKER_01]: The defendant was released in that jurisdiction upon bail in the sum of $30,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which, how do you get arrested for a rape while you're out on bail for another

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the only thing that I can think of is that they didn't know about the first case because it hadn't been adjudicated, but he would, and it's 1994.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's a different county.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a different county, we don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: 1993, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, we don't know what type of communication existed between courts and counties back then.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, yes, the internet existed, but barely and even now, like I said, when you look people up, you have to do it county by county, and that's on the public facing site, you know, of course, it's different, but still.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know, but the bond was the same in both.

[SPEAKER_02]: So my assumption would be that a person with no priors given this type of crime would have a designated set on the amount of bond.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's still fucking crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't get me wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I've never seen that mentioned anywhere in anything I've heard about Lee.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what's insane is that motion to rescind his bond was denied on November 17th and current's remained out on bonds.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: The the order that's in the documents is just very like boiler plate.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, we find it in sufficient evidence to revoke bond, basically.

[SPEAKER_02]: What the fuck?

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that wild?

[SPEAKER_01]: So then I went back to the Mississippi State court online case thingy and looked up Punta County couldn't find a single thing with Kerr's name on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Couldn't find a single newspaper article about any rape that occurred.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what the hell happened to the case?

[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the case was, I don't know who'd involved, I don't know what happened to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't find anything in the newspapers or the courts.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, that's wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see why I was struggling?

[SPEAKER_01]: As I dug deeper into the documents of this case, I found another piece of evidence that could be relevant to Lee's case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oscar current's blood type is O.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, because they took samples from him because his victim did rape kits.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, at the time in Mississippi, they weren't doing DNA testing.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were still doing blood type testing for rape kits.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they had Seaman from his victim.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they found out that he was, that that Seaman belonged to somebody who was typo.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Oscar Cerns is a typo secretor.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a possibility that the blood samples taken from the scene from Lee's scene didn't actually all belong to Lee.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, we talked in part one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what blood type Vicki is, Vicki could also be, but she could potentially be A or B.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if my earlier theory is correct about the bathroom cleanup being because of a wound the perpetrator sustained, it should be noted that no one reported seeing any wounds on Vicki.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, even if at the time during his panic, Oscar was thinking, I need to clean up my blood, so I'm not leaving it behind.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't have known what blood typely was.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't have known that they had the same blood type, so police wouldn't know that it wasn't hers.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just thinking, shit, I've got to clean up my blood.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he could have left other blood behind.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the police just didn't know because the testing wasn't there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or he could have been cleaning himself up after raping her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he wasn't worried about the rest

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's true, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we do know it was blood that was cleaned up on the bathroom counter because that's what police said.

[SPEAKER_01]: They said it was like a pink sheen on the counter from blood that had been wiped up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, you're absolutely right.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could have been cleaning up after a rape as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: So my question now is in this view.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody knows other than the police

[SPEAKER_01]: in these case.

[SPEAKER_02]: In either case, we know that they did a rape kit for the 93 rape, so they have his blood type or sample.

[SPEAKER_02]: That case.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is there any evidence preserved in these case that they could potentially compare the two?

[SPEAKER_01]: So the answer to the lead question is maybe I think the issue is that yes, there is evidence preserved the question is how much and how viable is it because they've tried to do various testing over the years and the issue with earlier forensic testing is that it used large samples

[SPEAKER_01]: So I am not sure what's left after that, basically.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that that is still a possibility that we could get testing.

[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of samples from Oscar, like yes, we know is blood type obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if any DNA samples exist from that rape kit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would imagine probably not because that case was adjudicated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I would imagine that evidence was probably destroyed after a certain point.

[SPEAKER_01]: What I don't know is if because he ended up going back to John was in jail, was in prison, up until 2019, I don't know if they ever took his DNA.

[SPEAKER_02]: And put it into code us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So potentially.

[SPEAKER_01]: After the forensic tests came back in the rape case, current changed his plea to guilty.

[SPEAKER_01]: His sentence wasn't eight years as generally reported.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually 24 years with 16 suspended.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was only convicted of the rape charge.

[SPEAKER_01]: To additional charges for kidnapping and sexual battery were dropped.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you mentioned the bond about whether or not this was his first offense.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually wasn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's his first sexual or violent offense, but it was his second felony.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was also convicted of Grand Larson in 1981.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oscar Curne's was sent to prison on April 4, 1994.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was released on October 6, 1997.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now this part, you do know a little bit about already because while I was working on this, your parents came into town and your father spent 37 years as a state parole agent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was still trying to figure out what got Oscar Hurn sent back to jail in 2000.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had started to kind of get an idea, so I ran a buyer dad to see if like what I was thinking even made sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he did confirm what I had been thinking that the suspended sentence can perhaps explain why I couldn't find any information on the case that sent Kerns back to jail in 2000.

[SPEAKER_01]: That article from 2017 says that he pleaded guilty to kidnapping a Union County couple and raping the wife in 1999.

[SPEAKER_01]: But remember, his sex offender registry has him raping a child under the age of 14.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I still don't know what the hell happened in 1999, I don't know if it was because that's still doesn't fit with the previous crime like none of any of that makes it's like I don't know who was victim was if it was the child if it was, you know, a life like the article says like what the hell was happening, but something happened to 1999 and whatever it was I'm wondering if it was all dropped.

[SPEAKER_01]: In favor of him just being sent back to prison to serve the rest of his original sentence, saving the victim or victims the trauma of a trial.

[SPEAKER_01]: His 15-year-old victim underwent a rape kit, multiple invasive police interviews, and was going to have to testify at a trial.

[SPEAKER_01]: As were her friends, so they had a witness list

[SPEAKER_01]: she talked to at school and had her call the police was on there like this trial was going to be awful for a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: The victim herself would have had to testify.

[SPEAKER_01]: Current's guilty plea meant that she at least didn't have to do that, but the trade-off was that he went from facing a potential life sentence on three charges.

[SPEAKER_01]: to being convicted of only one and receiving all but eight years of a sentence suspended before being paroled after three.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can absolutely see another victim looking at that and going, hey, why don't we just not do that at all and send them back to service original sentence?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or the, yeah, the DA would be the ones suggesting that exactly to save the victim.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like I, the DA would present that to the victim and say, hey, you won't have to go through any of this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we already got them on this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he will go back to jail for a good amount of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: We can revoke his parole on this sentence.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he goes back to jail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he has to go through anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And your father was a hearing examiner at one point.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was telling me that like, generally, that all happened in the jail in the prison, you know, wherever it was during the hearing.

[SPEAKER_01]: During, yeah, it didn't happen in open court.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there wouldn't be court records for me to find on this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like that, that does kind of fit with like why there's no trace of like his crime that's sent him back to prison and so because he committed some heinous crime while on parole.

[SPEAKER_01]: it meant that he spent the next 19 years in prison, which again, from the victim's perspective, I get making that decision, you know, gamble with, yeah, maybe he would get longer than 19 years, but he could get a lot less, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, hell, they didn't even revoke his bail for when he was accused

[SPEAKER_01]: Officers attempted to interview him about Leo Chi over the years, but he always refused to talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: At one point, though, he did say he would take a polygraph, but his attorney next bad idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the end, he never answered a single question about Lee's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Oscar Cern's died in 2021 at the age of 63, just two years after his release.

[SPEAKER_02]: his wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was married.

[SPEAKER_01]: The whole time not the whole time, but for a lot of it, she stood by him through the first conviction, but ended up divorcing him around the time he was sent back.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I only know that because when I was like trying to find all these different like crimes in different counties, I found the divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to say it was like 1999 or 2000.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this next part really isn't completely irrelevant, but like I couldn't leave it out of this episode, because I came across his obituary from 2021, and it's Ensign.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's an excerpt.

[SPEAKER_01]: Quote, a native of Stantopolica, California, Mr. Kerns, had been a resident of North Mississippi for the past 45 years.

[SPEAKER_02]: of resident of the state for 19 of the four to five years.

[SPEAKER_01]: The total like 22 because of the original theory.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was employed in the cabinet manufacturing industry for most of his life before retiring two years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess he was making cabinets in prison too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess that's a job in prison there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in 2019, you know, it was like, ah, I think I'm going to retire.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: A Christian and a vote in member of the Apostolic Faith, Mr. Cerns will be remembered as a person who loved his church and his family, fishing, horseback riding, and caring for his pets, brought him much pleasure, and quote.

[SPEAKER_02]: at that raping little girls in that obituary.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got some whitewashing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: They shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Holy shit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oscar Mike Kerns was an evil man and now he's dead.

[SPEAKER_01]: The only bad thing about that is the fact that if you knew anything about what happened to Lee Ochi, that information likely died with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: The teenage girl Kerns was convicted of raping was close to the same age as Lee.

[SPEAKER_01]: He knew her from the same place and he abducted her early in the morning by driving to her house.

[SPEAKER_01]: The similarities are striking to say the least, and he had type O blood, which is the only type of blood that was found at the scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this, okay, this is I was almost going to talk about this in the first episode, but like I wanted to save it for this part when we're actually talking about Mike, because when we are talking about the garage and the garage door being opened and wanting to see the phone records, it really makes me wonder if he called Lee that morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if he did, did he say, hey, I'll come over, we can talk about your family or problems, your stuff, father, like whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pouring outside.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you open the garage door for me?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I can pull in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would make sense as to why the garage door was open and why she would let him in.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the the difference between that one and the following one, at least the following one that he was arrested for, is that I think after the horribleness that he inflicted on Lee, I think Lee tried to run.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think Lee fought back and tried to leave

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the only reason why Lee felt that she could do that was because she was home, not in an empty field.

[SPEAKER_02]: The similarities are striking.

[SPEAKER_02]: And rapists tend to be ritualistic because it's part of the whole thing, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So a knife pushing her, forcing her to

[SPEAKER_01]: me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then she had already read rest and she tried to make a run for it, knowing that there were neighbors around.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when it went really wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then he grabs the sleeping bag, rolls her up, puts her in his car.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the rape could have would have occurred while she was still wearing the night gown.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some amount of violence obviously

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, afterwards made her redress just like he did with the 15 year old.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because it was her redressing herself, automatically put her dirty clothes in the hamper.

[SPEAKER_02]: She puts her glasses on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Try to make a run for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Try to.

[SPEAKER_02]: fight back somehow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then things escalated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because while we do know that there was blood on the night gown, and we know that her new outfit was missing, we don't know if there was blood on the new outfit, you know, we don't know anything about that right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And again, the only reason why the second victim didn't make a run for it was she was in the middle of nowhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: because she did put up a fight or at least a resistance, some resistance at the hotel.

[SPEAKER_02]: She did.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when he went to plan to be in Tucker to an open field where nobody could hear a scream and scream.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when he brought out the knife.

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have the knife in the hotel.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that actually kind of makes sense too, because if you was so freaked out about what happened to Lee, I can understand him just trying to coerce her into having sex with him and not wanting to bring the knife and not wanting things to get out of hands like they did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then realizing, okay, this isn't gonna work, but also I can't have what happened with Lee happened in this hotel room.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where other people will hear it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that has my name on it because that's one of the things that corroborated her story is he had the days in receipt in his car.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was tied to that hotel room.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, he went to Plan B, which is take her out to the middle of nowhere, where she can't escape, where there aren't walls where there isn't evidence that can be

[SPEAKER_01]: and hopefully she'll just comply because like you were saying murder wasn't his primary goal.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't what he wanted to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was the rape.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in Lee's case, I mean, I'm almost 98% sure Lee was not his first victim.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's too calculated to be a first time offense.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's probably a lot of victims out there before Lee, and they're clearly our victims out there after the second victim.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a serial rapist, and was completely out of control by that point.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's the same as a serial killer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same type of mentality that the difference is the crime, the crimes are different.

[SPEAKER_02]: One kills, one rapes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was accused of committing another rape while he was out on bond, a waiting trial for this attack on this 15-year-old.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then was accused again while he was out on parole for that attack after serving three and a half years in prison.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he had gotten caught and served three and a half years in prison and still could a control himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, potentially he managed to control it for 18 months, but that was it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think if I were a cold case detective on Lee's case, or involved in any way in her case, I would really try to test whatever evidence is left if it's even possible against his DNA, or even if you don't do it for Lee's case, see if his DNA is encoders, and if it's

[SPEAKER_01]: Dig is asked up if you need to because I think yeah, it seems like there's there might be something else out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is interesting because again, you look at this case.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are two names that pop up.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's Oscar Cerns, Becky Felton.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now DNA testing would be a lot harder to rule Vicki out, right, because, okay, you find her DNA on we's clothes, like, what is that right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's her mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's no Earthly reason why this guy's DNA should be on anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that would be very strong evidence that it's him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, even if you do that, let's say best case scenario, you do that, and you get a match.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now we know that he was involved, it's still not going to bring me home because he's dead.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we would have no idea what he did with her, but maybe there's things in his case file that we aren't aware of that could narrow down a search area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we don't know if he owned other properties or, you know, any of that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or if his family did or or what he never answered any questions about Lee.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we have no idea what he was doing on August 27th.

[SPEAKER_01]: What his alibi would have been had anybody ever asked.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know where he was supposed to be that morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know where he was supposed to be that afternoon.

[SPEAKER_01]: The night, the next day, we don't know any of it because he wasn't on the radar that day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in everybody's defense, it truly seems like there is no reason he would have been.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there are a few more things about Lisa's case that I do want to make sure we talk about.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's getting back to Vicki, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the idea that we could have potentially been killed the night before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because that was, you know, again, that was my very first thought when I was reading about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like the tight timeline and like her coming back and discovering it was like, well, she's been dead, you know, but then you read about the wet blood.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, another thing that I read.

[SPEAKER_01]: The wet blood has been said by police officers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to say that there wasn't even Vicki saying the blood was still wet.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, that was said the blood was still.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I consider that to be confirmed.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: One thing that I have also seen that I do not consider to be confirmed, but I consider to be interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: is that there is a report that Lee called one of her girlfriends at around 8 a.m. on the morning of her disappearance.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like right after Vicki left her work, because she was freaked out about the storm.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so allegedly, she called one of her friends and spoke with her on the phone.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if that's true, it makes Vicki an even more unlikely suspect.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if Lee was alive at 8am, that means that Vicky would have had to come home, kill her daughter, partially clean up in the bathroom, put the clothes in the hamper, hide her daughter's body in about a half an hour.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, plus it's also probably safe to assume since the police looked into her alibi that they were able to alibi the timeline of when she left work.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, police have never said like, oh, and also she bailed three polygraphs and she wasn't at work, or she bailed three polygraphs and she never actually called home.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like that corroborated parts of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it seems like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But with all of that said, with knowing all of this, you know, we have that quote from Chief of Fire from 2017 saying that they couldn't completely rule Vicki out, that it was weird that she left and then immediately called to check on Lee and went back to the house and she built three polygraphs and like there's a lot of stuff that doesn't match up, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: and on January 29th, 2025, federal and state agents showed up at Honeywoke's drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: WTVA reported that agents from the FBI and the Mississippi Bureau of Investigation brought in K9 units and were digging in and around the drainage ditch that runs along the end of the cul-de-sac.

[SPEAKER_01]: WCBI reported that a backhoe pulled rocks out of that ditch with two below public

[SPEAKER_01]: Mississippi State University's forensic anthropology team spent more than 12 hours on site.

[SPEAKER_01]: The MBI's cold case unit confirmed that the search was part of the OC investigation and said, of course, that findings couldn't be disclosed.

[SPEAKER_01]: The current homeowners, who bought the house in 2009, told WCBI what prompted the search.

[SPEAKER_01]: A new investigator had come onto the case, developed leads, and brought an equipment that had never been used before.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they obviously had to get permission.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: to have them come on their property, which they're like, yeah, we actually had no idea about any of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've lived here since 2009 and didn't know when we bought it, but they did give permission.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then in May 2025, the MST forensic anthropologists who worked the search Dr. Jesse Goliath said something to WTVA that maybe he wasn't supposed to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Investigators still believe that Lee's remains are on or near the property where she lived.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not in a distant county, not carried off down the interstate somewhere, but right where she went missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The working theory of the people digging is that Lee never left Honeywoke's drive at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now to be fair, if she, her remains were found there, that still doesn't mean that Vicki was the killer.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, I mean, because Oscar Currents could have left Lee's body near her house.

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't seem particularly adept at hiding his crimes.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could have panicked, put her somewhere nearby, and then the storms took care of the rest.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, Vicky could have done the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are so many things that we just don't know about this case, and we're simply missing the pieces we need in order to put the puzzle together.

[SPEAKER_01]: But as I've looked into this and especially after what I've now learned about Oscar Curns,

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the answers are there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're within reach.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now back to your question about the remaining evidence, there has been talk of additional forensic testing on the evidence that does still exist in the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: If that's possible, and like we said of his DNA is anywhere on any of that evidence,

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that tells you what happened right there, but you know, there's also another possibility, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because his wife stuck with him through that first conviction for years, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But then did eventually divorce him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she has information.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she has information that she wasn't willing to share when all this went down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I don't know for sure if she's still alive, um, I haven't found any evidence that she's not, but if she is and she's out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she does know something or maybe she can at least give information that might point detectives in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe she doesn't like he didn't confess to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't she doesn't actually know anything about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it could be the opposite.

[SPEAKER_02]: She could very easily out of by him like legitimately.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's, then that's roll out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they were out of town on August 27th, 1992.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they could have been on vacation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or she could be like, oh, yeah, he actually had a hunting cabin up in, you know, wherever, like, then nobody knew about.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and listen, this is already long, but Mrs. Itbe calls me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So part of the, um, the documents when he pleaded guilty to that rape, it was a couple weeks before his trial was supposed to start.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like the end of

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes in instead, works out a deal, gets to the charges dropped, ends up bleeding guilty, to rape, gets a suspended sentence, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, when you plead guilty, you have to have a hearing in front of the judge, because the judge doesn't necessarily have to accept your plea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has to one believe that, you know, you're making it of your own free will, you're not coerced into it, that you understand the terms of the plea, etc., etc.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, they go through all this.

[SPEAKER_01]: The judge is asking him questions, and this fucking guy gets up in talks about why he's pleading guilty.

[SPEAKER_01]: because like part of it is the DA gives the basic facts of the case and the basic evidence that they have against them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he gets a chance to speak and he's like, well, you know, there's really a lot more to it that we don't really need to get into a lot of, you know, extenuating circumstances.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the point is is that I believe that it's gonna be easier on the girl's family and easier on my family if I just plead guilty.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, at the end of it, his lawyer, and at least I don't fall to his lawyer for this, his lawyers don't what he's supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I fault the fucking system for being this insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: His lawyer goes, hey, so my client's on a bond.

[SPEAKER_01]: His trial isn't supposed to be for a couple weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he was going to be free for those couple weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a Friday that this hearing is happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like,

[SPEAKER_01]: How about instead of you reminding my client to jail today?

[SPEAKER_01]: You give him the weekend because he's got a lot of plans.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's Easter weekend.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has a family reunion scheduled for Sunday that he'd like to attend and it's his and his wife's wedding anniversary on Saturday.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how about we come back on Monday and he turns himself in then?

[SPEAKER_01]: four.

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to jail three for raping a fucking child's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did the judge let him do it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why his conviction was on April 4th because he went to John April 4th after pleading guilty on March 30, 30, 30 first.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unfuck and believable.

[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, yeah, he's dead.

[SPEAKER_01]: good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Vicky moved out of Mississippi after her daughter's disappearance because, like I said, people kept on talking around town, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: She now lives in Michigan.

[SPEAKER_01]: She has stopped accepting interview requests and had lead to clearly declared legally dead in 2024.

[SPEAKER_01]: Donald

[SPEAKER_01]: Leochi celebrated her 13th birthday less than a week before she went missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: She would be turning 47 this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: The kids at that school opened how she never made it to her middle age now.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've had 34 years of first days of school and graduations in their own kids open houses.

[SPEAKER_01]: The house on Honey Locust Drive has had another family living in it longer than Lee's family ever lived there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Regardless of who is responsible for what happened to Lee Ochi, she deserved to live all of the days between 13 and now, the good ones and the bad ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: Failing that, she deserves to be remembered.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee Ochi has been missing from Tupelo, Mississippi, since August 27th, 1992.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's a white female with blonde hair and hazel eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the time of her disappearance, she was four foot ten inches tall and weighed approximately 95 pounds.

[SPEAKER_01]: She has a strawberry birthmark at the base of her skull, small scars on a right leg, and pure steers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lee was 13 years old when she went missing, she would be 46 today.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you have any information about the disappearance of Leo G, please contact the Tupelo Police Department at 662-841-6491, or Crime Stoppers of Northeast Mississippi at 1-800-773 tips.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can see all the sources for this episode along with photos and videos at our website, and then they were gone.com.

[SPEAKER_02]: and be sure to follow us on social and then they were gone pod on Facebook and at ATTWG pod on Instagram and TikTok.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you like what we're doing, please subscribe and consider leaving a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[SPEAKER_02]: It will help new listeners find us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the more people that listen, the more chances we have of bringing someone home.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see you here next week for a brand new episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: See you next week.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were gone as hosted by Kona Gallagher and Ethan Flick, all research writing and editing is done by me and Kona Gallagher.

[SPEAKER_01]: The music is the stork by Katza.

[SPEAKER_01]: Additional music is provided by Kai Engel, and then they were gone is a little monster production.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you could go in!