Episode 67: From Spartan Race Bonk to a 50-Mile Course Record: How Data-Driven Training Built an Endurance Athlete - Clint Pagan
In this episode of Endurance State of Mind, hosts Anthony Herrington and Zach Vogt sit down with Clint Pagan, founder of Full Armor Fitness and the newly-minted first-overall finisher and course record holder at the Night Howler 50 Mile in Hoover, Alabama. Clint's story is a masterclass in how curiosity, community, and a growing obsession with personalized data can turn a casual runner into a competitive ultramarathoner. If you've ever wondered whether VO2 max testing, resting metabolic rate testing, lactate threshold testing, or heart rate zone training are worth your time and money, this conversation lays out exactly what those tools can (and can't) do for your training.
Clint's endurance journey didn't start on a track or a trail. It started with GORUCK challenges and obstacle course races like Spartan Race and Tough Mudder back around 2011, when he and his wife were living in Atlanta. After bonking hard at a Spartan race in 2016, Clint made a simple decision: drop the obstacles and focus purely on running. A corporate wellness perk covering local 5K and 10K entries (Mobile, Alabama's "Corporate Cup" series) gave him the on-ramp, and a top-10 finish at his very first local 5K hooked him for good. From there, Clint describes a progression many endurance athletes will recognize: 5Ks turned into a hunt for a sub-20-minute 5K, which turned into training for the Mobile Marathon, which turned into chasing a Boston Marathon qualifying time.
That road wasn't smooth. Clint ran his first marathon, the Mobile Marathon in 2019, with an undiagnosed stress fracture in his foot, gutting out a 3:22 finish before learning at the finish line just how injured he actually was. COVID derailed his 2020 season, and he lost significant fitness and volume during that stretch. But 2021 became a turning point: Clint got intentional about training, started watching heart rate data on every run, and used the brutal, windswept 2022 Mississippi Gulf Coast Marathon (13-15 mph headwinds for 26.2 miles) to run a 2:58 and lock in his Boston qualifying time, the same race where his path first crossed with Zach's.
The data obsession really took hold once Boston training began. Clint talks candidly about the misinformation loop that trips up self-coached runners, forums insisting you need 60-80 mile weeks to break three hours, when he found success on 40-45 peak miles per week by training smarter, not just harder. That meant learning what heart rate zone training actually was, cutting "gray zone" junk miles, and building the aerobic base that lets you hold pace instead of falling apart at mile 20. He crossed the Boston finish line in 2:59 and, by his own account, felt like he'd barely touched the tank, the moment that pushed him to chase his VO2 max number and eventually launch Full Armor Fitness, his own mobile lab-testing business.
A significant chunk of this conversation is a deep, practical breakdown of the physiological testing tools available to serious endurance athletes today, explained by someone with a real medical background, Clint's degree is in emergency medicine, and he spent years as a paramedic and EMT in both Mississippi and Atlanta before shifting into endurance coaching and testing. Topics covered include:
VO2 Max Testing: What it measures (how efficiently your body takes in and uses oxygen), why it's the gold standard for cardiorespiratory fitness, and why an individualized lab test beats algorithm-based estimates from a five-kilometer race time or a wearable device. Clint explains how his team uses clinical-grade VO2 Master equipment, the same category used to test elite athletes, to map precise heart rate training zones (zone one through five) instead of relying on generic age-based formulas.
Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) and Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR): The difference between the two, how they're commonly estimated using BMI-based formulas, and why a lab-measured number is far more accura
1 SPEAKER_00: From back roads to start lines, early mornings,
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SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Endurance State of Mind.
Our next guest is all about data.
Data that informs decisions, both when it comes to training
and race strategy.
He is fresh off a first overall and course record at the Night
Howler 50 mile.
He's also a veteran of a unique take on a last man standing.
So, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please help
me welcome Clint Pagan to the podcast.
Clint, how are you, man?
SPEAKER_02: I'm doing great.
Great to be on here.
Great to see you guys.
SPEAKER_01: Brother, we we're excited to have you on.
We um we obviously I Clint, I first met you at what I'm just
finding out is your first ultra at um at Live Oak this year.
So um you were all full of full of spirit, Zach.
I'm gonna tell you something.
Whenever we talk about Live Oak in a minute, I'm gonna let him
tell you what he was telling me just a second ago, but it was it
was pretty funny.
Um Clint, thanks for coming on.
I'm gonna ask you quite basically just the standard
question that I ask everybody.
Tell us a little bit more about yourself, kind of how you got
into endurance sports, and then we can go from there.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
Thank you guys for having me on, man.
Um avid listener, super big fan of the podcast, been listening
for a while, and what you guys are doing are creating waves in
the in the sport, and so thank you guys.
So yeah, running.
Um I uh I was never a runner in high school.
I I played golf in high school and so uh, you know, I mean
obviously played sports all throughout uh all throughout,
you know, youth and everything like that, and ran everywhere I
went.
And uh but it wasn't until uh I started doing some like obstacle
course races, like Spartan races, tough motor, that kind of
stuff.
Got pretty good at that, but I was never really super strong,
but I always did pretty well because of the running side of
it.
Uh I bonked at a Spartan race in like 2016, and I said, I think
I'm done with the obstacle part, I'm just gonna straight do it do
the running part of it.
And so the company I work for, they uh have like a health
incentive where they pay for all the local 5 and 10k's and
everything.
And so I said, Well, you know, I mean, I run a few miles here and
there, I run seven, eight minute miles, and let me give this five
and ten K thing a shot.
So I did a 5k, came in the top 10 at the little local 5k, and I
was like, man, that was awesome! You know, that was really fun,
and so let me start trying to train for this.
I was running on average maybe three to five miles per week at
the time, or maybe not even that.
So that's pretty much how I got into it.
SPEAKER_01: Nice, dude.
Um, so you obviously start with Spartan races.
I'm assuming that was probably like right around the time that
kind of got big, wasn't it?
Like 2015, 16, that era.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I actually was it was probably like around 2011 I got into it.
There's a company called GoRuck that uh yeah, we were living in
Atlanta, my wife and I were, and she was on a missions trip in
Thailand, and I said, I think I'm gonna do this thing coming
to Atlanta called a a a ruck challenge, and it was like a
12-hour ruck throughout the middle of the night, and it was
an absolute blast, and so I was like, Let's see what this
obstacle course race and thing's all about, and so that's really
how I got into that.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right, and then switch slowly quickly
switch over to um 5Ks, and then obviously I'm assuming just fell
in love with it.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Zach, you got anything for him?
Now just kind of reflecting live here on the podcast.
It's interesting how we had Amy on last week on the pod Clint
Clint, and she mentioned obstacle races being her entry
point.
So it's like they create this big funnel, but they don't have
a good retention rate or something.
Exactly.
That's just an interesting observation.
Second, Clint, you mentioned your company pays for 5Ks and
10Ks at the time.
I think we need to start promoting this a little more in
the corporate world.
I like this incentive package.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Here in Mobile, we have um what's called the corporate cup.
And so a lot of local companies, we have different divisions and
levels to it.
And uh a lot of the local companies, they all get
together, they vote on we do about 10 to 12 races, and each
company votes on which races they do throughout the season.
Normally starts in like August and goes to like May of the next
year, and gives us about one or two 5Ks per month.
So it's yeah, it's it's definitely if you like running,
I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_01: I'm scratching this down.
Would be Zach's company would be bankrupt if they let him, if
they paid for all his 5Ks and ultra marathons, especially
because it it's Zach would be like, Carrie, the company's
paying for it.
It's a marketing thing.
I gotta do it, you know.
I gotta go do Moab 240.
It's gonna take me two weeks, but I gotta do it, you know.
SPEAKER_02: I've tried to go to uh to our financial controller a
few times and be like, hey, look, you know, I got into
Boston, okay?
Can you guys pay for that one?
SPEAKER_01: I wear a shirt, I swear.
Yeah, I swear I wear the company logo on my shirt.
Oh, that's funny.
So you get into 5K's and 10ks, and then you're like, all right,
I'm gonna look this up.
It's kind of like I feel like everybody does takes this route
where it's like, all right, I kind of like this.
Let's see like what's like the most extreme thing I can do,
pretty much.
And that's kind of your next step, I'm assuming, correct?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
You know, I would run two to three miles just to clear my
head and stuff.
And um, you know, I you know, kind of a history of like myself
is that I dealt with anger a lot and um didn't really know how to
regulate those emotions through like communication and stuff,
and I figured out going to run two or three miles just cleared
my mind.
And so, yeah, that's that.
And then so whenever I started doing the five and ten K's, I
really started putting a little bit more training into it,
getting a little bit better.
I got a you know, I got a few 5Ks under my belt, and I'm like,
let's see what this running thing's all about.
And so I started Googling, you know, what's the the thing for
runners?
And obviously, you know, the Boston Marathon consistently
kept popping up.
Um, you know, sub-20 5k, you know, like what makes you a good
runner, you know, in a 5K.
And so, yeah, Google kind of set my goals for me, and I was like,
well, let's see if I can get sub-20 out of 5k.
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
So I'm assuming eventually you got to sub how long did it take
you to get from where you were at to sub 25 yet?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I was probably like uh 21, 22 minutes
right off the bat, 23 minutes maybe.
And uh so it didn't take me very long.
Uh a buddy of mine, uh Jack Bishop, he's he's a little bit
older, but um he was probably like 17, 18 minute 5k pace.
And you know, normally like all kind of like the faster guys
kind of gravitate toward the front of the 5k and they're
like, Man, how you doing?
What are you running today?
Blah blah blah, stuff like that.
And uh they were like, Clint, what are you gonna run today?
This was it, just like uh I think it was called the Justin
Hasty Green Dress Run.
It was a 5K and Jack was like, uh, Clint, what are you gonna
run today?
I was like, I think I'm gonna try to break 20 minutes for my
first time.
And like I say, he was a lot faster than 19 dot dot dot.
But he uh it was really cool, which you know goes to show the
the gravity and the how strong the running community is because
he took away from his race to pace me to help break my first
20-minute 5k, which is cool.
So I think that run, which was about five or six 5K's in for me
running, I ran I think a 1924 or something like that, uh that
that 5k.
So I I cut a couple minutes off just from him pacing me, which
is really cool.
SPEAKER_01: It is awesome.
Had you already, because I know Zach wants to talk about it, and
I'm this is gonna give us a good start to it.
Have you had you already started looking diving into the numbers
and like looking at the analytics of your runs by that
point, or were you still kind of just new of like I'm gonna go
out and run and enjoy it, basically?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just this is all just run for
entertainment and joy.
I didn't even know what Striva was yet.
SPEAKER_01: So you weren't even a runner at that point then,
were you?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, nothing was getting logged at that
point.
So um, yeah, so it, you know, during that race, he was like,
stay up on the crown of the road, you know.
He was like giving me all these pointers, like mid-5k and
everything.
So yeah, it was it was a big learning curve for me right
there.
SPEAKER_01: So you take you obviously take that momentum and
say, all right, it's time to get into some Boston training, I'm
assuming, or try to get into a sub-three hour training.
What did what did that big like transition look like?
I'm assuming mileage went up and it was obviously a lot more like
um, hey, I've got a I gotta actually focus on doing 26.2
miles.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
You know, I would I would ask around and obviously a lot of
Googling and stuff like that, but really it came down to uh I
signed up for the mobile marathon, and uh this was like
2018-2019 time frame, so I'd been running for maybe a year,
uh just like local five and ten Ks, putting in about 10 to 15
miles per week tops.
And uh I was like, well, if I'm putting in 10 to 15 miles a
week, what would happen if I put in 30 to 40 miles per week?
And so I started that's whenever, like you said, I
started looking up, you know, marathon plans and what do I
need to do, and what kind of runs do I need to get into, and
which is about the same time I signed up for Strava and started
logging my runs and everything, and so I signed up for the
mobile marathon.
Little did I know the mobile marathon is not a super easy
course, and there's some pretty steep hills on the back end of
it around 1920, 21 or so on the old course.
They've since changed it since then, but uh my very last run
going into the mobile marathon, it was like that Saturday or
Sunday, and I did my last long run that Monday before.
I did a 15 mile long run, it was mostly easy pace with just a few
marathon pace miles, and I got a stress fracture in my left foot,
literally the week of the marathon.
It was it was terrible, and I was like, Well, I've got two
options here.
I can either you know call it off or I can push through.
And so knowing me, I I pushed through, and uh my goal was to
go sub 330 on my first marathon, and I knew my fitness was there,
but with my foot and everything, I took it easy the first few
miles and ended up coming in at 324, I believe, or three
twenty-two on my first marathon and uh with a stress fracture in
my foot.
Wow.
Yeah.
I didn't really know until I got to the end of it and they had
the people out there with like the Theragun, you know, going up
and down my leg.
Well, she hit my foot and like I came off the table.
Son, she it lit me up, and so then I went and got uh X-rays
done and saw that yeah, it was a stress fracture.
SPEAKER_01: So you just thought you were like hurting basically
overuse, over overweight, basically.
Right, exactly.
Man.
SPEAKER_02: But I just gritted it out and and suffered through.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
So you you run your first one.
Obviously, mobile is kind of a setback because you know your
foot's hurting, you know, you know the you obviously know the
volume and like the shape you're in.
So you I'm assuming you'd think like, hey, I could probably I
could probably hit sub three.
What what it where'd you go from there?
You start looking at other stuff, you have a bounce back or
what?
SPEAKER_02: I had some goals, so that was actually 2019 that I
did that I ran the mobile marathon in.
And so I had some goals uh to train for a year, kind of build
up my uh aerobic fitness and everything, getting some more
volume under my belt, some a good foundation, and then
obviously COVID hit in 2020, and so I missed all marathons for
that year.
So I actually kind of regressed a lot from 2020 to 2021, um,
just taking a step back, didn't run as much as I lost, you know,
a lot of my volume didn't run as much as I wanted to, and life
kind of happened and everything.
And so um, yeah, come 2021, things started clearing up, and
I was like, all right, it's time to to put the pedal down.
And so I really started focusing on um intentional training,
watching my heart rate, watching every run that I started doing,
and uh that's whenever I signed up for the 2022 Mississippi Gulf
Coast Marathon.
And I believe Zach was at the 2022 Mississippi Gulf Coast
Marathon.
And uh I think that's where I met like Michael DiMarco and a
couple other guys that ran that one that year, I believe.
But it was terrible weather that year.
I mean, absolutely terrible.
It rained all 26 miles, uh nasty headwind, like 13, 15 mile an
hour headwinds the entire way.
And uh I started out with a group of of guys in the
Mississippi Marathon, no pacers or anything like that, but we
had a group that of of people trying to go sub three, and so I
knew for me and my age group, if I had to get into Boston, I had
to run sub-three, and you know, like the lore, everybody's like,
oh my gosh, sub three marathon, sub three.
So uh I stuck it out with these guys, and sure enough, as like
the we hit the half marathon point, as the day went on, the
winds got stronger and stronger, and people kept dropping like
flies.
And about mile 23 or 24, you know, whenever it's all mental
and you're just trying to grind it out, it was me by myself out
there, and uh, but I pushed through and came in at like 258
or something, two fifty-eight fourteen, I believe, was my time
at the 2022 Mississippi Gulf Coast, so knocked it out there.
SPEAKER_01: Nice Zach, you got any any questions for him here?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I do remember that race, Clint.
It was awesome seeing you there.
I don't know if that's where it clicked in my head that, oh,
Clint's in the run in.
I don't know if that was the first time or not.
It's all fuzzy back then, but yeah, yeah.
It was exciting seeing you.
At what point did you go like surgical with the data in the
details?
Has it has it have we gotten to that point yet, or are we about
to get to that point?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was really um it was really whenever I
started locking in training for Boston is really where I started
getting into the details of all of the data, um, exactly where
my fitness was at, because everybody that I would talk to,
you know, you go on like Let's Run or something like that, you
go on all these forums and all these websites, and everybody's
like, you run in sub three, you gotta put in 60, 70, 80 miles
per week to get your times down lower.
And I was like, man, I just do not have time for that.
I was like, there's gotta be, you know, and some people would
post and stuff like that and be like, yeah, you can do it lower
times.
And so I said, I think I can do it because I know how to stay in
the red zone.
Up until this point, I didn't even know what heart rate
training was, and I was like this entire time I was like zone
three, gray zone training, probably doing myself no good at
all.
And uh so really whenever I started training for Boston is
whenever I started locking in on all my data, um figuring out
what heart rate zone training is, um exactly what uh runs I
needed to do throughout the week to get the best and optimize
each one of my uh speed up as well as aerobic fitness, because
my base just wasn't there.
And without the volume, that's kind of the biggest thing.
You know, you might have the speed there, but without the
volume, it's gonna all fall apart around mile 20 or so.
So yeah, it was it was right around Boston trainings whenever
I started locking in on the data.
SPEAKER_03: I love the summary on that of you can't manage what
you don't measure and you got to sub three off of you know, like
hard work to a certain degree.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
Yeah, and and and honestly, that's that that's where I s I
loved that's where I really fell in love with running was the
Mississippi Gulf Coast Marathon.
That was like a very key race for me because mentally it like
I I was like over the moon.
It was terrible, but like I found this like deep void inside
of me that like I could lock into that helped me like grind
through that time.
SPEAKER_01: You you obviously you you kind of start working
into um getting into like mentally getting to that point
of like hey, I've gotta I can't do these 60 to 80 mile weeks.
I've gotta pull it back down, but I've got to stay like
focused on like all right, I'm gonna do what were you you said
you were averaging, I think you average somewhere between like
30 and 40 miles a week.
Am I right on that?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think I never hit 40 miles training for the Mississippi
Gulf Coast Marathon.
I was somewhere around 30 to 35 miles peak mileage.
That was with my 20 mile long runs and everything, so I was
not putting in any volume at all.
But then I I did up it a little bit training for Boston.
I think my peak mileage for Boston was like 40 or 45 miles
or something like that in a week for Boston.
SPEAKER_01: What um so whenever you like make that transition,
were you leaning on people like in your field that you ran with
to like basically teach you like, hey, this is what zone two
running looks like, this is what maybe your speed workout should
look like, or were you looking it up online?
Like, how kind of how is that going?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I was looking it up online as well as I had some friends that
had already been down that road.
Um, some guys here locally in mobile that kind of you know
shared with me their training plans and like look, you gotta
have a long run, you gotta have some tempo runs, and you gotta
try to get as much marathon pace effort in as you can and try to
do that on a weekly basis.
If you can do that and you're hitting like a 324 now, you
should have no issues going sub three.
And so that's really was like my starting point for my training
plan.
Obviously, yeah, stuff online.
I looked up like long run specifics, um, you know, like
what are you know the the main uh long runs that you should be
doing and things like that, but uh yeah, I I really tried to
lock in on as much marathon pace as possible on my long runs.
The rest of It being super easy and uh a a couple of speed and
tempo workouts throughout the week.
So that's that's really where it all started.
And then from that point, Boston comes up.
Um and I can't remember you were that that was a year.
No, where you were at Boston, right, Zach?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's actually um when I went to text
you about coming on the podcast, I scrolled back.
You only have to scroll back like two messages, and there's a
picture from us at 2024, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right, yeah.
Yeah, and so I knew you were gonna crush it at Boston, but
like um me, I was like nervous as all get out, man.
This was like my third marathon, you know.
For me, it was like the big stage, and I just I don't know
if it's just like my personality or what, but even like going
back to the data mindset is like I overanalyze everything, so
like all of the details, and and I'm sure you guys are like this
as well, but like I love the data, you know, it helps me like
break down, you know, there's to me running is so mental and
emotional, but also whenever I pair that mental and emotional
part with the data, I can see exactly where I need to go to by
saying, all right, I dipped down right here, and this was the
grind, and I can go back and look at the data and know
exactly what was happening at that point, and so I kind of
love putting those two things together.
But I I I easily overanalyze everything.
So going into Boston, I was like, is my fitness there?
We had recently moved out to the country, and uh, you know, I'm
running out here on a bunch of hills and dirt roads and dogs
chasing after me and stuff like that.
And so where I was living at before was right by the
University of Mobile.
I was running with a lot of the, which we'll talk about this in a
second, with the the 50 mile race recently, the guy I ran
with, but I was running with a lot of their cross-country and
track guys, and it was all pretty flat and smooth, and so I
knew where exactly where my fitness was at.
But whenever it came to Boston, I didn't know exactly where my
fitness was at.
So there was a lot of question marks.
Yeah.
Uh but yeah, so Boston happened, crazy race.
The the the crowd and everything fueled me, and I said, okay,
now's where I'm gonna start getting into this series because
once I finished Boston, I came in at my my goal was to um my A
goal was just to run sub three hours at Boston, knowing it was
a lot hillier and things like that.
And I did, I ran 259 at uh Boston, and um I said, okay,
when I finished Boston, it felt like I hadn't even touched the
tank, you know.
I still had so much left in me, and I was like, okay, this is
now we're like getting somewhere.
The training worked, the volume where I was at worked, and I and
so then I started doing some research, talking to a lot of um
physical therapists and people that were in the industry that
knew exactly how to start testing your fitness, where
you're at, and whenever I started having those
conversations, I was like, I'm so locked in on like this
running and fitness thing.
But it I started looking up like where could I get my VO2 Max
even tested at?
And um there's a couple like brick or m brick and mortar
places around.
Uh, but I was like, I'm I'm I feel like I'm like here, like
how interested I am in this stuff, and I still would never
like drive to go get my VO2 Max tested, which gave me the idea.
I started looking around and I was like, Well, I wonder if
there's like somebody or a company that does this same type
of testing, but like is portable, comes to you, brings
all the equipment, the treadmill, the mask, everything,
and comes to you.
And there was nothing around.
And I was like, There it is, man.
I love data, I love locking in on all of it.
There's nothing around.
This is kind of like a niche thing, you know, and that
started that kind of like right after Boston, that's where full
armor fitness kind of got birthed inside of me.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you make the you make the change to like
you're starting to realize like, hey, I I have a love, like I
have a passion for this the analytics, the analytical side
of running as much as I do like just flat out running and
basically seeing the need in the industry for like hey, people
would people would actually love to do this.
It's funny because I would imagine do you have a lot of
like triathletes and stuff that ever reach out to you, or is it
a lot of runners?
SPEAKER_02: It's mainly runners, yeah.
And actually, you know, with like high rocks getting so big,
there's like a lot of hybrid athletes and stuff like that
that want to test because we do, you know, body composition, so
you get to you know what your like your skeletal muscle mass
is and um you know i exactly the strength side of it as well.
It's not just the running side, so it's kind of the whole
trifecta there, but yeah, we we see a huge increase in like the
hybrid athletes.
But yeah, it is the modality is definitely mainly running.
SPEAKER_01: And you can go to like people whenever they ask
you for it.
So like you can Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So we use the same like VO2 Master, which is like
the same clinical grade equipment that like Christian
Blumerfeld and all of the big names, you know, it's it's gold
standard clinical grade equipment.
Um the goal is to one day get a a DEXA scan and uh in a van and
start uh traveling around with one of those.
Uh I haven't made it financially quite to that point yet, but
those things are pretty pricey.
I've looked them up.
But right now with like a one or two percent deviation with the
in-body scanner, it's uh it it does what it's it does what it's
meant for.
But I was a uh kind of taking a step back.
I was a paramedic um in Mississippi.
I worked at Memorial Hospital as an EMT, and I moved to help
launch a church in Atlanta and became a paramedic in Atlanta.
And um so like as far as like the medical side of things go,
uh my degree is in emergency medicine, and so all of that
stuff was kind of like inherently built into me, and so
I knew like exactly what the body could do, how to try to
optimize it, uh what to look for and signs um of stress and
overtraining and things like that.
So whenever I started going down this rabbit hole, all of these
puzzle pieces really just kind of started fitting together for
me.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
And and it sounds, I mean, it sounds like honestly, it was
just a perfect fit for you whenever you think about like
your trajectory and where you were headed.
So it's it's cool to see.
What um let's take a little bit of a switch and I'm gonna let
Zach come back and ask you a whole bunch of stuff about this
in a little bit because I know he's got some more questions.
Um but recently, as in recently, I mean this year, you just
started doing ultra marathons.
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Um first one was Live Oak Ultra.
Live Oak Ultra in Ocean Springs.
And tell me what you told what you told me earlier before Zach
got on, because Zach's gonna love this about pacing some.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that was actually my my very first Ultra
that I've ever ran.
I've never gone more than 26 miles, and uh a buddy of mine
asked if me and another guy could help pace him to go sub
five hours at an ultra, and so we signed up for for Live Oak,
and I was like, Yeah, man, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01: You like that, Zach?
You like that confidence of like I'm just gonna go out and pace
you for a sub-five hour hour ultra and first pass?
I've never done one either.
SPEAKER_03: I love it, man.
I didn't know that at that moment in time either, Clint.
I saw you out there, and you you always keep this like high
energy out there, and I felt like you were strong the whole
day.
Did I did I misread any of that or was that your experience?
SPEAKER_02: No, no, yeah, dude.
That was I was hyped.
I was super hyped, man.
That was a beautiful run.
I loved every bit of that run.
Um, but yeah, so I've I've paced a few runs, you know.
I've I paced the Mississippi Gulf Coast a couple of times,
and uh uh I was talking to a buddy and I was like, hey man,
um are you doing this race?
And he was like, Yeah, he was like, I'm I'm I'm trying to go
sub five hours, and I was like, okay.
And so I was like, well, if you don't mind, this will be my
first ultra, and I'll use it because I had signed up for the
last man standing, the gambler run, and it was like a month
after Live Oak, and I was like, I need a a long run, like a
training run, uh, to prepare for the last man standing race.
You mind if I pace you for the sub five hour?
And he was like, Yeah, yeah, so the more the merrier.
Not knowing it was gonna be 30 degrees with like hurricane
force winds out there, but I tried to stay hype.
It was it was actually it was a great race.
I wish I could have I wish I could have raced it, but it um
yeah, it was a it was an awesome race.
SPEAKER_01: It was a it was a super fun race.
It was fun watching y'all.
It was super cold for somebody that wasn't running it, like
myself, because it was cold, but it was fun.
You were you were a ball of energy all morning, so that was
awesome to see.
Even though y'all almost fell off.
I'm I'm sure the wind almost carried y'all off that bridge at
some point in the day.
SPEAKER_02: Heck yeah, man.
That thing, like I was running at some point.
I felt like I was like stopped.
Like, but I was like, I'm like, no, I'm putting some effort in,
but I'm going like 15 minutes per mile pace.
SPEAKER_01: Well, what about um so you use that as a training
run for the for this um the gambler last man standing?
Can you tell us a little bit about that race?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
So I've you know, like I I felt like my whole goal was to run
Boston, to go sub-3.
Um, you know, I hit those goals, and I even ran Chicago last
year, uh, and my goal was to go sub-250 there, but I ended up
having surgery like 10 weeks out from Chicago and still managed
to crank a 250-35.
I was like 35 seconds short from going sub-250 in Chicago, but I
felt like I kind of hit the the goals I had for the marathon,
and so I had always these last man standing races have always
like intrigued me, and uh, I just love the format of them.
I think it's like a really cool concept.
Um, and so uh there a a new a newish company in Birmingham
called the Running Birds actually um came out with this
really neat concept for the it's called the Gambler, it's a last
man standing style race, it's two miles every 40 minutes, um,
and each mile you get uh a poker chip, and that poker chip goes
into a little bib cup, and um at certain increments uh you can
cash out and they give you cash back for however many laps that
you did.
Or you can if you hit like a hundred miles, you can go all in
and bet on yourself, and all the poker chips go into a house pot,
and whoever wins the entire last man standing wins the house pot
and gets to keep all the cash.
So it was a it was a really cool concept, and I was like, man,
this is something that I want to do.
I had another friend of mine that he he hadn't hit uh a
hundred miles, he had attempted a few hundred mile races, um,
and I think his the farthest he had gone is like 80 miles or so
and DNF'd a couple of times and stuff like that, and I was like,
look, man, like we're gonna we're gonna do this thing
together, we're gonna hit a hundred miles.
And so he was one of the guys that helped pace at Live Oak,
and um we get up there to the last man standing race, dude,
and it was so you know the the typical standard format is I
think it's like 4.1 something miles every hour on the hour.
And uh so this one was a little bit different.
So if you were to hit 100 miles, it would actually be 33 hours of
running or 33 hours of being awake, and so it's a lot more
than the 24 hours from a normal last man standing type race.
But um yeah, so we did it, we hit 100 miles.
Um he, you know, we got got the belt buckle and everything, the
coveted 100 mile belt buckle and all that kind of stuff.
And I actually I I was super excited and I was proud that we
hit it.
Um, but the very last mile, so it was a two-mile loop, and the
last mile, I was like, I was hype.
Uh so if you haven't got that yet, I I I expel a lot of energy
out on the course.
But uh the very last mile, I ran a sub-seven-minute mile of the
hundred mile last man standing.
And so I called it quits at a hundred miles, but I kind of I
regret it.
So I'm gonna go back next year and sign up and do it again.
And this this time I'm I'm going with the intent to win it.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
Was it with it being two miles?
I'm assuming there was a lot of climbing.
Is was the is am I right on that?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there was about uh I may be wrong
here, somewhere around 200 to 220 feet of elevation every lap.
Um, and most of that came within uh one small section.
So it was actually like a lot of power hiking right up this hill.
It was I was looking at my watch and it was like 18, 19 uh degree
incline.
So it was some pretty steep stuff going up that thing.
So yeah, the quads and uh hammies were spent, and so there
was a lot of like really steep descents as well.
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so it was like a small little technical
section that really like messed up your hamstrings and your
quads to just like burn them out.
Yeah, yeah.
But Zach, what you got for this?
SPEAKER_03: Clint, what did you learn from that lack of sleep
for that long about yourself and how will you prepare for next
year's edition differently?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think um nutrition-wise, I nailed it.
I took in tons of solid food uh as as long as I could, you know,
learning what my stomach could handle.
That was kind of my biggest question mark since I've never
done a distance anywhere close to that.
Um, and so I mean normally I do a hundred miles in a month, much
less in one day.
And so uh yeah, so nutrition was like the big question mark for
me, but I I feel like I nailed the nutrition.
The biggest thing I feel like I learned was the um the micro
sleeps.
So number one, a zero gravity chair is like the thing that you
have to have.
I don't know if y'all have ever sat in a zero gravity chair
before, but it's just like a chair with like some bungees
strapped all the way around it, it kind of suspends you a little
bit.
But that was like the legs go up in the air, dude.
You can get a micro sleep like three to five minutes, and it
feels like you slept hours.
And so we would come in, yeah.
We we were like clockwork coming in every lap with about 10 to 12
minutes to spare, uh, which was enough time for us to get a
little fuel, change socks or shoes if we needed to, um, get a
micro sleep in, wake up and and enough time to get the next lap
going.
So uh yeah, the biggest thing I learned was um you gotta sleep.
You there's there has to be these micro sleeps, or you're
just gonna fall flat on your face.
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
Um, yeah, Zach and I, that's one thing Zach and I have learned a
lot about is that we the two of us feel like we need our sleeps
when it comes to running, you know, like you can only do so
much in in that amount of time before you need some actual
sleep.
Um so you go for the last man stand and you did very well at
it, finish like top four or five, I believe.
And then next step is I'm gonna go out and win a race.
So what about uh what about this night howler 50 miler in Hoover,
Alabama?
SPEAKER_02: Man, I uh I I did not even plan to do this race,
I'll be honest with you.
So I uh I have a goal of setting the Alabama state record for a
hundred miles um in October.
And so there's only one U.S.
track and field uh certified course, and it's called the uh
Endless Mile in Alabaster, Alabama, and it's just a one
mile loop that you run a hundred times.
Uh but uh so as I'm like building volume throughout the
summer, my fitness is shooting up, it's skyrocketing, and so I
feel really good.
And um the the same company, the running birds that put on the
gambler, they put out this night howler 50.
And so uh once again, the the same buddy that did the gambler
with me uh signed up for this night howler 50, and I was like,
man, so the more I started thinking about it, I was like,
this would be a great race, it's far enough out for me to have
enough time to recover.
Um it would help me train, you know, nighttime running, running
throughout the night in a in a race effort format.
Uh, I could train, I've never ran or raced in like uh an ultra
per se.
So, you know, I paced my buddy at the live oak, and then the
gambler had all of these little breaks in between, so my body
had these little moments to recover in between each lap.
So I've never really put in like a race effort for that distance
before.
So I was like, this would kind of help build that confidence
for that.
So it pretty much sold me.
I was like, yeah, we're doing it.
And I was talking to my wife about it, and I was like, look,
this would be a great Father's Day gift right here.
Just all of us go up to to uh Hoover and and do this race.
And so yeah, I um I saw that the the course record was like eight
hours and 17 minutes or something like that, and just
based off of some of my long runs and everything, I was like,
yeah, I can I feel pretty confident I can get below eight
hours.
And then uh I had a couple of s stacked long runs that I felt
really good and strong coming out of over the last few weeks
before that 50 miler.
And I was like, I mean, I think at this point I I feel pretty uh
comfortable going seven under seven hours and thirty minutes
or setting my goal right around seven hours and thirty minutes.
And so uh a guy that lives here locally um messaged me on
Facebook and was like, hey man, you you uh running the Night
Howler 50?
And I was like, Yeah, and he was like, Oh yeah, you know, uh
there's a University of Mobile cross country athlete that's
gonna be up there, and I was like, crap, dude.
I was like, now I got some competition.
But uh anyway, show up and it's a it's a guy that I've I've ran
with before, and I've ran here.
Locally, whenever I live close to the University of Mobile, and
he ran like I think he ran like a 230 or 232 at Boston last
year.
So he's you know, he's a absolute animal.
And so he comes and shows up to the the night howler and I'm you
know poking and prodding.
I'm like, hey man, what are you uh what are you gonna what are
you aiming for today?
And he's like, I'm gonna go for something around seven hours or
try to get right around seven hours, and I was like, okay, and
so I'm like at that moment in my mind, I'm like, how can I do
this?
Like, how can I step down to the seven-hour mark and trying to
figure out those paces in my head because like I was already
locked in on like 830 pace for the entire thing, and so uh I
was like, I'm just gonna do it.
I was like, I think my fitness is there, I think I can stick
with him as long as possible.
And um, so you know, the the gun goes off and we start the race,
and I look down at my watch, we're doing like 735, 740, 745
pace, and I was like, this is not this is not good.
And uh, but I but we we stick together and uh we're running
right next to each other and stuff like that, and there's
like all these little roots that are sticking up like two to
three inches in the trails because it was like half a mile
through the sports complex, over a bridge, down four flights of
stairs, two miles in the woods, up four flights of stairs, and
then back through the park.
So it was a two and a half mile loop that you run 20 times, and
so it was 80 flights of stairs total, and um the 50 miles at
nighttime.
So, but like I say, we for the first 25 miles, man, we we
cranked it out at about eight to eight, ten, eight fifteen pace.
And um I rolled my ankle on one of those roots at like mile 18
or 20, and uh he he started cramping around mid-20s or so,
and it created a little bit of a distance between us because he
stopped and got like a roller gel for his cramps on his, and I
saw him like rolling his legs, and I was like, Oh, this might
be my chance.
So I stuck with the pace for as long as possible, and then um
mid-30s or so, mid-mile thirties, I started my heart
rate spiked, and I stopped him like dumping water all over me
and everything, and to get my heart rate down, and I'm like,
Am I in first place right now?
And he was like, Yeah, he's on the same lap as you, but you got
a little bit of a distance on him, and so he was like, You can
probably slow it down a little bit.
And I was like, I don't think I have a choice.
I was like, I gotta slow down, and so my legs kind of gave up
throughout those miles, and I went down to about 11, 12
minutes per mile pace, and uh right about that time my watch
died, and I was like, Oh no, I was like, because I was running
by myself, so I really had no clue what pace I was running,
and um I put my watch on the charger at that time.
I had about seven and a half uh miles left, three or four laps
left, uh uh yeah, three laps left, and I had downed a bunch
of pickle juice uh because I could feel like these little
twinges, you know what I'm talking about, like some cramps
are starting to come on, and um and so I downed about 30 ounces
of pickle juice and kept on rolling with it.
Uh my nutrition was pretty good, but I ended up finishing the
race the last seven and a half miles at about eight fifteen to
eight thirty pace.
I I picked it back up, I got like a my second win.
Those I was at like mile 42 or so.
I knew I only had seven miles left, and so I I grinded it out
and yeah, came through at 7148 or something like that.
So it was uh it was a brutal race.
SPEAKER_01: Nice dude.
Well underneath that record you're trying to get, huh?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
As a matter of fact, I don't even know when I ended up
lapping him, and I never even saw where I lapped him at, but
he ended up finished second, I think second, he finished in
second at like 8.14 or so, or no, eight eleven.
So I ended up beating him by like 57 minutes, but it was hot,
humid, stairs.
It was it was a tough race.
I learned a lot of lessons in that race, actually.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
I was gonna say, what are some takeawa takeaways from that
clint from going into like breaking eight to seven thirty
to there's a guy here that's saying he's gonna run seven to
kind of land an in-between those?
And then how does that map on to what you're gonna take in three
months to the endless mile?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so man, there's I I was a little
disappointed in myself because normally I don't let that kind
of stuff phase me, but um I I knew my fitness was probably
there, but um I think my first big takeaway is properly
fueling.
Like there was a moment that I was taking in way too many carbs
per hour than I should have, and it didn't rest easy on my
stomach, and I I at the time I pushed it off because I've got
like an iron gut that I normally don't have to worry about that
kind of stuff with.
Um but I know that on a hundred-mile race or even back
to a 50-mile race, those kind of things actually do matter.
So I I went a little overboard uh on my nutrition, which kind
of bit me a little bit, and I didn't take in enough water, one
because it was like 90 degrees with like 90% humidity, so I was
sweating a ton and wasn't accounting for all of that.
So uh the the nutrition side can definitely improve.
I need to have a a more solid plan and be more strategic and
intentional about exactly knowing what I'm taking in per
hour basis.
The other one was the pacing, obviously.
I I told myself I was like, I cannot sustain this pace uh at
like mile 25.
And um, you know, I don't it turns out neither one of us
could.
And so um yeah, just kind of running my race, sticking to the
plan.
Um, you know, I I don't know how many people actually negative
split ultras.
Um, but normally I like once I have that pace, I like to stick
to it.
Whether my fitness is better or or or not, I like to push myself
to the point where like I feel comfortable knowing I can hit
this pace, stick with this pace, um, to hit your goal.
And towards the end of the race, if you do feel like there's
something left in the tank, then that's when the time to pour it
on is, not in the beginning.
So yeah, those are kind of my biggest takeaways for that.
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you this, not many people are negative
splitting ultras.
Zach's Zach's been Zach's been working on this for a while
himself.
He talks about it all the time.
Um so you're not that you're not the only one struggling on
trying to figure that one out.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and and and honestly, uh the hydration
side of it is something that uh I is kind of the big takeaway
for me because um hydration's kind of my biggest downfall when
it comes to training, um, not getting in the proper amount of
sodium or even just volume of liquids.
And so um I know, you know, twofold this race, then I'm
gonna have to be a lot better, or there's no way that I'm gonna
be able to hit the goals that I have.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
What uh if if you don't mind me asking, what are those goals at
the attempt for the 100 mile and 24 hour?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's um somewhere around, I think the
record right now is somewhere around like 20 hours and 37
minutes.
Um and so like I say, there's been people that have gone
faster that at than that at 100 miles in the state of Alabama,
but none of them have been like certified races or whatever.
So uh my goal though is to get well my goal right now, I'll say
uh it kind of changed running that 714 um because I didn't
know I had that in me.
Um so uh that the goal might change depending on the next
three to four months of training go, but right now it's to get
within like 16 hours or so for the hundred mile or yeah.
It was an it was initially to go sub-17 was my goal.
SPEAKER_01: I like sub-17 too, that it sounds great.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: So um where can people follow you after
listening to this podcast and follow your journey maybe
towards the endless mile?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
I mean, obviously on all the socials, you know, you can look
us up Full Armor Fitness, um, the website's fullarmor.fitness.
Um we do VO2 max testing, resting metabolic rate, uh, body
composition analysis, and then we kind of take all three of
those things together and give you a physiological profile that
breaks down exactly what your body's telling you already.
And you know this already that like um you know you can use
these algorithms and these things online that tell you kind
of based off of your 5k times what your VO2 max times should
be.
But having a VO2 max test done individualizes all of that data
so you know exactly where your thresholds are, zone one through
five, you know, you know exactly what your VO2 max, your fitness
level is, and so these tests are uh it's another piece of the of
the puzzle for people that are trying to to get fit.
It's also a great longevity tool.
So I have a lot of older clients actually um that that come in
and talk about you know cardiorespiratory health, lung
capacity, uh all of these things, how well your body's
taking in oxygen, and there's a lot of older people.
I mean, VO2 Max is uh is one of the largest biomarkers for
longevity as well.
SPEAKER_03: So Anthony, when are we going to go do it, man?
I'm excited.
We gotta go do it.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do.
I'm looking it up right now.
I got some questions for you on the VO2 Max stuff, if you don't
mind.
While we if we got Zach, you got like two minutes.
Okay.
Um, so when it comes to VO2, does uh it obviously is gonna
change a lot depending on how you are where you're at, like
physiologically and how much running and training you're
doing.
However, how often would you say somebody should come in and like
recheck on let's say a VO2 max?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like kind of the general rule of thumb I get
is uh based on your training, just to keep a steady progress,
I would say like once every six months.
Uh, but if you're actually training for something, then you
know, whether it be a marathon, an ultra, whatever it might be,
uh, I would say every month to three month uh time frame to
keep an idea close check on your training progress.
So a lot of times whenever you have a training plan, you want
to see the outcome of that.
You know, is my fitness actually improving?
So if if you can get it done, you know, far enough out from
your race that you can put this plan into place, then you I
would say every two to three months.
But if it as you get closer, every month would really give
you that trajectory of exactly where you're sitting at.
SPEAKER_01: And how many times a week do you train your VO2, man?
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
Man, I could tell you a story, but it is it's pretty funny.
My wife, I'll get her to do it, and I'm like, look, just tell me
when I need I'll control everything myself.
Just tell me when to go up on the treadmill, and she's over
there like scrolling TikTok and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: And you're just like 20 minutes of suffering.
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, no, I I I do I utilize the data, man,
knowing exactly where your thresholds are.
Obviously, you you know, you want to know is my, you know,
the the separation between uh aerobic and anaerobic.
Um you want to know exactly that switch when it occurs heart
rate-wise, you know, from uh burning fats to glycogen, uh,
like your ventilatory threshold one, or whenever the switch goes
from, you know, aerobic to anaerobic, which is threshold
two, which a lot of people, you know, lactate threshold is kind
of that a lot of people talk about that, that's real popular.
But knowing exactly where those things are at is a game changer
for training.
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
And then do you think that I I can ask both of y'all this.
Did like obviously knowing that that's probably more that's
probably very beneficial for somebody like yourself running
100 miles.
So you know, like, hey, this is how much sodium and carb I need
to be taking in every hour, but if I'm at this heart rate for
the past hour, correct?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
And and one of the cool things about like the in-body that we
have that tells you exactly what like your hydration level is, is
if you have too much extracellular uh water, then you
could be over-training.
Um, it has segmental lean mass, so you know if you're
overcompensating on one side of your legs or not, and building
up.
And so it'll tell you a lot of those different things, which is
information, you know, as you train and you're putting in high
volume weeks that you should know and keep on the lookout
for.
You know, our bodies are already telling us a lot of things, and
the data just helps back those things up.
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
And then I know obviously body composition is another thing
that you that your company does as well, which is essentially
just measuring fat on body and then kind of what you were just
saying, your water weight and bone density and those type of
things.
Yeah.
The the and I think a lot of people are familiar with that,
so I'm gonna ask a question that I'm not sure people are familiar
with.
The resting metabolic rate.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So what is kind of break that down for me a little
bit?
So, because I look at it like I used to joke about this.
I've always kept up with my metabolism a little bit.
I used to say I could go out and run five miles and still gain
three pounds after I ate dinner.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, like it's just the way I felt like it was just kind of
what you're saying.
Resting metabolic weight was always, I guess, lower than the
average.
So, kind of what does that tell somebody whenever they get that
test?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
So, resting metabolic rate, basal metabolic rate, a lot of
people call them different things, and a lot of times it's
just based off of an algorithm like BMI is or something like
that.
But um we use the VO2 master to test the resting metabolic rate
as well, and it's completely individualized, it's the gold
standard as well.
But it's like if you were to just lay on a couch all day
long, how many calories would you burn?
So, no effort, how many calories do you burn?
And so it gives you that good baseline number.
So then you can start stacking on top of that.
If you burn 1800 calories in a day doing absolutely nothing,
then you know, and I eat this many calories and I exercise
this many calories, and I'm trying to lose weight, then I
can go into this much of a deficit.
So it individualizes that number to a T, like just, you know,
it's the clinical standard.
It's because these numbers, if you if you're talking about
going and if you're trying to lose weight or trying to
maintain weight because you're in a training block and you're
not taking in enough calories or you're taking in too many
calories, a few hundred calories could potentially be like you
said, I could go run five miles and still put on two to three
pounds, um, just being off a few hundred calories.
So this resting metabolic rate tells you exactly what that
number is.
SPEAKER_01: Is that is that an ever-changing thing or is that a
pre-tensive thing?
Okay, it's also ever changing.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of it, the more muscle you put on
increases metabolism.
And so a lot of it's based off of like lean muscle mass.
So the more lean muscle mass you have, a lot of times your
metabolism is going to be higher.
Um, but yeah, so yeah, that number's ever changing as well.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01: And then the liptid panel test is basically just
checking cholesterol and glucose.
You want to talk about that?
Is that I'm assuming that's that's right.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I mean, um, you know, one of the things with those markers
are it's a lot of times we use that for some of the aging
community for a lot of the older people that are trying to keep
track because they're doing a lot of training.
They're they don't know exactly how many carbs they need to take
in, sugars and things like that.
And so keeping those numbers in check, um, you know,
cholesterol, glucose, glucose numbers, and things like that,
just your biometric markers, um, just making sure all of those
numbers are within normal range on a on a uh monthly basis is
something good to keep in.
SPEAKER_01: Is that something you check while you're doing a
VO2 max?
So you can say, like, hey, at at threshold, at your like, let's
say zone three, you're burning this amount and you need to be
taking in this this many carbs, like, or is that just no?
SPEAKER_02: We haven't we haven't dug in that deep.
That is a great idea.
Um, one of the things that we are going to start doing is
start checking lactate levels, though, in the middle of that to
see exactly how much lactate you're producing.
And to do that, you would have to be in the middle of like a
training session.
And I don't know if you guys have seen those before, like
where they check them like on your ear and stuff.
But yeah, that's that's one of the things that we're gonna
start doing.
SPEAKER_01: We haven't done that yet, but um we'll be your guinea
pigs if you need us to be.
I appreciate you for coming on.
Um that was that was a lot of fun.
I think a lot of people are gonna are gonna be interested in
this mobile vo2 max testing and potentially resting metabolic
rate testing.
So uh I know you got two clients right here sitting here looking
at you.
SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to get that actu.
I couldn't wait to get my actual zone numbers.
That would be sick.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can I'll I'll text you.
SPEAKER_00: Um back rows to start lines, early mornings,
late nights, miles on the pavement, head down, chasing
daylight.
Mississippi heartbeat, sweat mixed with the grind, pain in
the legs, but it's all in the mind, endurance state of mind
where the weeds don't last.
Ultra miles, long rides.
We're built for the past and the future, no shortcuts, no skip in
the test.
When you sport it's your punishment, give it your best.
From 5Ks to hundreds, trail dust in our lungs.
Every story earned, every finish hard won.
No hype, just truth, no filters, no cap.
If you suffer for growth, get as podcasts as that.
Posted by the miles, not the fame or the shine.
If you know, then you know.
State of mind.