Episode 68: If It Scares the Hell Out of You, Do It: Epic Bill Bradley

Every now and then you come across an athlete whose story forces you to rethink what endurance is really about. Not because of how many races they have won, but because of how many times they have been willing to start over. That is exactly who Epic Bill Bradley is.

This week on Endurance State of Mind, we sit down with one of the most respected and recognizable figures in the ultra endurance world. Bill has swum the English Channel. He has finished the Badwater 135 in Death Valley in 57 hours cramping so hard he had to sit in a cold bath through the night. He has biked across America. He has climbed Denali. He has crossed the Grand Canyon rim to rim seven times. He is a nine time Ironman finisher. He has raced the Ultraman in Hawaii against Olympians. And he has become one of the most iconic figures at the legendary Arrowhead 135.

But if you ask Bill, that is not what his legacy is built on. His legacy is built on the fact that he keeps showing up. After his marriages ended. After his 10 million dollar video store empire fell to Netflix. After more DNFs than most athletes would ever be willing to talk about. After the depression. After the bankruptcy. Bill made persistence his identity.

In this conversation, Bill takes us through the entire journey.

He starts with getting cut from every ball sport in the ninth grade, running out of the basketball locker room crying, and watching a teammate quietly practice all summer and make the baseball team while everyone else quit for good. That was the moment he decided he was never going to quit anything again in his life.

He walks us through the drinking years as a young union electrician, opening 13 video stores with a stack of credit cards after every bank in San Francisco turned him down, growing that chain into a 10 million dollar empire that beat Blockbuster head to head, and then watching Netflix quietly wipe it all out. He talks about filing for bankruptcy, being told by his second wife "this is not what I signed up for," his dad calling every night to do what Bill would later find out were suicide checks, and how running was the only tool that would let him think straight for an hour a day.

He talks about the Tony Robbins seminar at 30 that started his exit from drinking, walking on coals as a metaphor for attacking his fears, and finally quitting for good and going to AA.

Then we get into the racing. His first Ironman DNF in Canada at 105 degrees. Coming back the next year to finish. Nine Ironmans and one Canada tattoo on his left calf. Sneaking his way into the Ultraman in Hawaii. Making the decision to swim the English Channel on the spot after realizing a channel swimmer had only beat him by five minutes in an Ultraman ocean swim. Qualifying with a six hour cold water swim inside of six months. Finishing Badwater 135. Biking across America in the Race Across America at 18 hours a day on the seat for 16 straight days, wearing four pairs of bike shorts by the end.

We get into Denali. Five attempts. Getting stuck in an eight day blizzard at the 10,000 foot camp. His mountain guide roasting him for peeing outside the tent during a blizzard. Getting so sick he had to descend with a Russian tent mate who had boot bang while Bill kept falling weak, both of them chained together on the rope like a chain gang.

And then rock climbing Half Dome via the snake dike route to attack his fear of heights. Skydiving. Illegal after hours bungee jumping off a bridge. And the incredible moment his lead climber told him "if you fall on this granite slab, I am going to pancake you and we are going to grind down together until we stop."

We finish with the one piece of advice Bill gives every young athlete or entrepreneur who tells him they want to do something big. Do not sit in the bike shop cutting the ends off your gear shifters trying to make things perfect. Get in the arena. Start. Stumble. Learn. Come back. Then you can stand tal

1 SPEAKER_00: From back roads to start lines, early mornings,

late night, miles on the pavement, head down, chasing

daylight.

Mississippi heartbeat, sweat mixed with the grind.

Pain in the legs, but it's all in the mind, a dark state of

mind where the weeds don't last.

Off from miles long rides, we're built for the past and the

future.

No shortcuts, no skipping the test.

When you board is your punishment, give it your best.

From five K's to hundreds trail dust in our lungs.

Every story earned, every finish hard won.

No hype, just truth, no filters, no cap.

If you suffer for growth, yeah, this podcast is that posted by

the miles, not the flame or the shine.

If you know, then you know.

SPEAKER_01: Endurance, state of mind.

SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to Endurance State of Mind.

Every now and then you come across an athlete whose story

forces you to rethink what endurance is really about.

Not because of how many races they've won, but because of how

many times they've been willing to start over.

This week's guest has a resume that is almost too unbelievable

to summarize.

Swimming the English Channel, setting a record by traversing

the Grand Canyon rim to rim seven times, and spending years

chasing one of the most unforgiving races on a planet,

the legendary Arahead 135.

But here's what makes his story so compelling.

He'll be the first to tell you that his legacy isn't built on

perfect race results.

In fact, he's become one of the most respected figures in

endurance sports because of something much more powerful,

his willingness to keep showing up.

After losing a business empire, enduring personal heartbreak,

and facing more DNFs than most athletes would care to admit, he

chose not to let failure define him.

Instead, he made persistence his identity.

So today we're talking about resilience, reinvention,

embracing impossible challenges, and why sometimes the greatest

victory isn't crossing the finish line, it's the courage to

stand on the next start line.

So, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please help

us welcome the one and only Epic Bill Bradley to Endurance State

of Mind.

Welcome, Epic Bill.

SPEAKER_06: Woo woo! Thank you guys, man.

That was a great intro, Zach.

Woo!

SPEAKER_04: I love it.

He's already.

SPEAKER_06: That is the biggest lesson I've learned.

It's the courage to stand at the line.

Is our you already got the victory.

As long as you start, man, you got a victory.

SPEAKER_04: Perfect, Bill.

We appreciate you for coming on.

Um, we're excited to talk to you tonight.

We've Zach's kind of given me a little bit of a little bit more

of a rundown about about your whole backstory and life and and

details.

I think Zach actually watched your documentary on YouTube

prior several months ago, which is funny because whenever we

talked, he was like, hey, we really should get this guy on.

So I'm gonna I'm essentially just gonna hand it off to you

and let you go.

And Zach and I are gonna ask some questions.

So, Mr.

Bill, if you don't mind, just tell us a little bit about

yourself and how you kind of got into endurance sports.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm so I'm an extreme endurance athlete, is

what I like to call it, you know.

Um, if if a little's good, a lot's gotta be better.

That's what I that stopped me from drinking.

Eventually.

Yeah, the old a little's good, a lot's gotta be better.

So it worked really good for endurance, you know.

So um, yeah, I got started.

I mean, I I was a runner when I was very young, um, in you know,

junior high.

And uh I actually like did really good in seventh grade,

like fifth in the county or something, like the 1320.

And then it was like people started to grow, and I didn't.

I was a very late mature.

And so as people started to grow, they all got faster, they

could jump higher, they could, you know, shoot the ball

further, whatever it was.

I got and I was really into the ball sports too, and I got cut

from all the ball sports.

And then I eventually I couldn't even make the ninth grade track

team because I in the 1320 was what we were running back then,

so three laps.

I and I'd gotten fifth in the county as a fresh as a seventh

grader, and then as a ninth grader, I couldn't even make my

own team, you know.

And so I basically I guess you'd call that getting cut from the

track team because I wasn't gonna be able to run.

And and and like I said, I'd been playing baseball and

basketball since you know I was like a nine or ten years old.

And uh I got to junior high, ninth grade, and I like

everybody's a head taller than me.

And I remember basketball was the first one that got me really

bad because uh, you know, I'd always done pretty good at

basketball, and then they put up the list in the locker room of

the people who made the team, and I ran my finger down the

list and I was like, holy cows, they made a mistake, my name's

not on it.

And so I remember I got cut and I ran out of the locker room

crying.

And the wor the thing about me though is I don't quit easy,

right?

Because then it said you could challenge for a spot on the

team.

So I showed up after school at practice and I challenged a guy

and he smoked me in front of the whole team, and so I ran out of

the locker room again crying.

I said, I don't know if basketball's for me anymore.

But uh yeah, eventually, you know, I and so what I did was in

tenth grade because nobody really anybody who got cut with

me on all these teams, no everybody just immediately quit

that sport like forever.

You know what I mean?

Nobody went back out for any teams.

And then a guy who got cut from me with the baseball team, I

told you all the ball sports, he got cut with me on the baseball

team, and then you know, I went and I went to 10th grade, you

know, uh a sophomore, and I took up soccer because soccer was new

to our school and it didn't cut.

So I was just happy not to get cut, you know.

I was no good.

But that guy who had got cut with me on the baseball team,

instead of taking up soccer, practiced all summer.

And he made he made the tenth grade team in baseball.

And I was like in shock.

I was like in shock.

I go, wow, he didn't quit like the rest of us, you know.

And and then it like it put something in my head, you know,

like like you know, about not quitting.

And so my buddies were all still running track, you know, those

were the guys I hung around.

And and and I'm playing soccer with, you know, with people that

I I like, but my real friends were still runners.

And uh and I remember uh my buddy asked me to go for a run.

We were up, we were all vacationing up in Lake Tahoe for

we had like a week we were up there or something.

And he says, Hey, I'm gonna go for a four mile, uh, eight-mile

run.

You wanna go, Bill?

I hadn't run since seventh grade, and it was like in tenth

grade or 11th grade or whatever it was, and I was like, Okay.

And I remember we were in Tahoe and we ran out, it was eight

miles, four miles out.

We were going and four miles back.

We made the four miles out, I was so screwed up.

I had to take a bus back to the hotel.

But I was hooked again, man.

I said, damn, I love this running now again, and it was

the the challenge of it, you know, and and getting back into

it.

And by, you know, as a junior, when I went I went back out for

track and I was fifth in the county in in the half mile, you

know, and then and then I also did similar to that as a senior.

Uh so and and I was yeah, back a runner, man.

But I and I and I told myself when I came back and I did so

well at running, I'm never quitting anything ever again in

my life.

And I haven't so far.

SPEAKER_04: Very nice.

So early days obviously get you back into running.

You quit in seventh grade, you kind of change your mindset and

say, hey, I'm never quitting anything ever again.

So, what like where did your trajectory go?

Because I know you got a pretty cool cool story here to like get

you into 130 miles, bad water, rim to rim, all these epic

adventures.

How did you how did you go from that junior in high school

running eight barely could run eight miles to the man you are

today of running 135 miles?

SPEAKER_06: Wait, it was four miles in a bus.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for my eight miles.

Four mile, four mile run, four mile bus, I should say, right?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that was my comeback.

Yeah, so anyway, yeah, and then so I, you know, after high

school, I went into construction and went in the family's

business.

I was an electrician, and big part of being a in construction

back in those days was drinking, you know.

And so I started drinking, I wasn't running anymore.

I was I remember I was so relieved.

This is a lesson that I think is really a good one.

I was so relieved not to have the pressure on me of having a a

track meter.

I was running cross-country also as a senior, and and to not have

that pressure on me of you know, once the season's over, you

know.

And so, yeah, and then the drinking came around and you

know, and uh, you know, and and it went it was big with

construction, and it was just like, yeah, I mean, I had a lot

of fun, but yeah, I got really out of shape, you know.

It wasn't it didn't take too long until I remember I went and

saw the guys who were still running track that were juniors,

and they're like, what happened to you?

I put like 20 pounds on, you know, and it wasn't muscle.

I go, I don't know, I guess I'm living the good life.

But yeah, so I I went about a decade or so.

I got married, I got, you know, had three kids, and I was um,

you know, I I really didn't do much during that time

athletically.

I remember I I was really just drinking and and I was and I

started a business with credit cards, you know, a video store

business.

And so I was more focused on that than uh, you know, in in

running a little bit just to really stay in shape.

But then by the time I was I I was around 30, I went, you know,

I just had I was done, I was sick of drinking.

You know what I mean?

I had a I had my share of it.

It there were I wasn't getting the the the fun wasn't coming

out of it, the you know, the not as good as what the problems

were, you know.

I mean it was, you know, it starts catching up to you.

And uh, and so I uh yeah, I went to a Tony Robbins seminar, and

you know, he he just like fired me up so much.

We walked on coals at the end of the seminar, these hot coals,

and that was supposed to be your fears, and and I remember I just

I it was the first weekend I'd gone in like like four days in a

row without drinking in like 10 years, and I actually had a lot

of fun, and I started running again after that, and within I

don't know, like a year, year and a half, I quit drinking

because I knew that was a dead end, you know.

Like I can't tell you how many times you sit in the bar and you

go, tomorrow we're gonna because I'd be with my buddies who were

runners back in the day, and we tomorrow we start running again,

and then you get up, wake up with a big hangover, go, uh, not

today, maybe the next tomorrow.

So yeah, that didn't work.

But once I went to that Tony Robbins, man, it was like I I

did get up after that and ran.

And then, like I said, I cut way back on my drinking, and

probably within a year, I I looked in the mirror one day

after I got way drunker than I thought I should get at an event

and told me I wasn't gonna get, and then I just I just said I'm

better than this, and I went to AA and I've never drank since,

man.

SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, thank you, man.

Yeah, you just it it's like really hard too, because you

lose your your drinking friends, you you know, you I thought

everybody only liked me because I drank.

I think it was true with those guys.

The ones I drank with.

But anyway, but it it's not true, you know what I mean?

It's if you think that it's it's not true.

And uh and you you you do end up with different friends, you

know, you get a different circle of friends because you just you

lose you, you don't the big interest you had with those guys

was drinking, you know.

So once you stop doing that, you you you start gravitating

towards people who are in your your new circle of what you're

doing, which was for me, I s was was starting out actually I

started biking first.

Nice like yeah, I had a I had my ex-wife's cousin was was riding

bikes and I he inspired me and I got a bike, you know.

That's what I started out with.

And uh and then I was racing crits and you know how it goes.

I go, I'm excessive.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: So I start out with these little these crits that

I'm doing the hundred milers.

And then it was like, yeah, a lot of my stuff um where it

shifted is when I so I had a very successful chain of video

stores that we had started with, you know, with credit cards.

And uh I mean, I just you know, and so I started that with

credit cards because the banks wouldn't lend me any money, you

know.

And so I and and you know what?

If you have passion to do something, somebody just asked

me that about money and this and that, and I go, you know, if you

have a passion, man, you'll figure out a way.

That's for damn sure you will if you have enough passion and

you'll figure the money out, you know.

And so he he had told me because I was getting turned down by

these banks and I had a house, you know, because I was, you

know, I was a union electrician, I was making good money, and so

I owned a house, and so we're gonna borrow money against the

house, but then for this video store that I wanted to open up,

and then but I needed another 25 grand to open up one compared

from what I could get a second on the house.

And so he told me, goes, and I said, you know, I went to three

banks and I had appointments, and the last one, the guy didn't

even show up.

He went to lunch or something, he just left me hanging there,

and I said, That guy's gonna regret it someday.

I always say that.

And uh, yeah, so anyway, uh he said, Well, Bill, this is how

you got to do it, man, because I never take, I never quit.

You know what I mean?

If I got that drive, man.

And so uh he said, This is how you got to do it.

You go to downtown San Francisco, you pull a credit

card application out of every bank, you fill them all out.

And by the way, at that time I had one credit card.

He said, You fill them all out and you mail them all in at one

time, and we must have filled 50 of them out.

These because that was banks were king of San Francisco back

then.

And uh, and we sent them in and we got 15 back, and I charge the

second half of the store.

SPEAKER_04: Wow.

SPEAKER_06: You always there's always a way, you know.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.

That was also back in I'm assuming that's like pre a lot

of like faster internet where it's like automatic approval and

stuff like that.

So you were kind of you were able to get through.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you were able to get through.

I was able to get through, and trust me, it yeah, I know it's

trickier now with all that stuff, but you could if you want

it bad enough, you'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_04: There you go.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, they're they're a lot tougher on the

credit cards nowadays.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's funny.

Zach and Zach has a has a very similar story when it comes to

drinking and how he stopped uh very early on, or probably a few

years.

How long has it been, Zach, since you stopped?

SPEAKER_03: This you're number seven since 2019.

SPEAKER_06: So congratulations, man.

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_04: And he went off to um Canada and did a dry spell up

in Canada, and that was where he that's where he said, I'm I'm

never drinking again.

SPEAKER_06: Oh, you had to get away from your like your

drinking buddies or something, man.

SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

That I had that same story too, but there was just a certain I

just so happened to be on Canada on that sobriety weekend.

And then Anthony's convinced me to go back since then, which was

pretty special.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he he went back a few months ago, uh about

a year ago, actually, I think, wasn't it, Zach?

He went back a year ago and it was a trail that he remembers

dearly from that weekend.

I was like, Zach, you you if you make it like if you are within

two hours of there, you need to drive out there and and see that

trail.

Because it's been like it had been like four years to the day

since he had been on his sobriety journey and he went

back out there.

It was a pretty cool little story.

SPEAKER_06: That is cool.

Good for you, man.

It's a big that's a big deal.

People don't realize I don't think I mean I didn't realize

how hard it is.

I thought you just quit drinking.

I didn't realize that then you got to deal with all your

demons.

Because that's really what you're doing when you're

drinking, you're numbing the demons, man, but they're still

there.

SPEAKER_04: I think that's what we do with running too, isn't

it?

We we numb some of them demons as well, don't we, Bill?

SPEAKER_06: I think we do, but it's a better way to do it.

SPEAKER_04: There you go.

SPEAKER_06: At least we're inspiring the people instead of

like, don't end up like that guy.

There you go.

SPEAKER_04: Oh man.

Oh, all right.

So you finance you finance the um the uh video chain or the

your video stores and then start booming, I'm assuming, because

it's around that time where rentals were just killing it,

right?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, you just had to open up a store.

But we were we were really good.

We we won our video store of the year award.

We were competing head to head with Blockbuster and Hollywood

and holding our own.

You know, we had big stores.

We we were we were booming, we did um you know, like promotions

on the weekends and free pizza, and you rent movies, and it was

just a great time.

I remember we would have like like a thousand people come

through on a Friday or Saturday night in our big stores in a

four-hour period.

I mean, we were packed, you know, double what the

blockbuster near us would have, you know.

We'd count because we love crunching them.

SPEAKER_04: So y'all are y'all are an independent store?

Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we we got up to 13 stores, yeah.

Awesome.

Okay, they're high volume.

We they're 10 million dollar chain, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: That's crazy.

All in the like California.

I'm assuming you were local to San Francisco area.

Am I correct?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I kind of spread them out.

You know, you always think like the grass is greener somewhere

else because you hear about somebody with a high volume

store over here, and you go, I'm gonna put one over there then.

And then it was always like where we started where our best

stores were, but I was always chasing the greener grass, and

it's harder to manage as you put these things further away, you

know.

SPEAKER_04: I was just about to ask, at what point did it were

you like, I can't manage all these stores by myself by

myself, basically.

SPEAKER_06: Oh, we ended up, yeah.

Well, yeah, we ended up, I had a general manager that was great

when I could afford to pay somebody, you know.

So that was a big deal.

Um, and yeah, it yeah, it it doesn't take very long till you

can't manage the stores by yourself, you know.

So um yeah, so we did really good at that until uh, you know,

and then I ended up getting a divorce at like 30.

And uh, I think it was third, maybe 39.

I don't know, she's uh I'm always 30 up here, I'll tell you

that.

Yeah, and that, you know, so that was kind of I started a

little bit of a downhill trend because I had to pay a bunch of

money out for this divorce and kind of got the finances going

the wrong direction.

And then uh I don't know, Netflix came along, and that was

the big one that was the really tough one for us all.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, because people weren't evolving with

with the Netflix uh dynamic of shipping direct to consumers

almost like what you're seeing with Amazon doing currently.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, what yeah, they just they they I I I will

at the time I was saying they had a better mousetra, but

really what they had was it was not making money.

When everybody started doing it, they were all losing money at

it.

So what they were beating us with was uh was a system that

wasn't making money.

You know what I mean?

It was like a pyramid.

So as people came in, they made money, but then when the people

started not coming in and and everybody started doing these,

they didn't make money.

So I think if if we were if they if they would have had to fight

us fair and square and not had this paradigm advantage, there'd

probably still be video stores around.

We would sure be around, damn it.

Because we don't quit.

SPEAKER_04: Nice, nice.

So you um take a shift, obviously, with the Netflix

stuff, that and going through a divorce, I'm assuming that was

the second divorce, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so from what I've read.

That one was rough, they were all rough.

SPEAKER_04: What I've read, you uh you kind of get into a

depression, and I'm assuming you're you're obviously not

drinking at this point.

Are you running during all of this?

Or are you kind of like where are you at with your running

career here?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know what was funny was this band when

this thing hit, I mean, I had I had opened three new stores.

I'm kind of excessive.

So, like, you know, we were really rolling and we we were

being partners in these stores.

So I was owning part of them.

My net worth was going through the roof.

And uh, but then when if you don't make money out of the

stores, everything kind of falls apart at one time, you know what

I mean?

Everything just starts toppling down.

So I had opened three stores and they were all big and expensive,

and I was making tons of money out of the other stores, but

then as Netflix kept evolving and and getting more and more

people, it was like, and it they just surged at one time.

It just seemed like, and it was like so cool to be streaming.

And uh, you know, anyway, so we just went, we got nailed, you

know, we just got nailed, and we started losing.

I was hemorrhaging money, just hemorrhaging it, and uh, you

know, finally had to file for bankruptcy.

Um, went in and told my second wife I was gonna have to file

for bankruptcy, and she told me this isn't what I signed up for,

and she left.

Made me tougher though.

Yeah, dude.

My dad would call me though when I was being made so tough.

He called me every night and I would say, I would I I remember

like a few months later, I called him.

I mean, I asked him about it.

I said, you know, dad, back then you were calling, like maybe

this is like six months later.

I said, You were calling every day, you know, and you're not

that type.

Like my dad was a Marine at 17 years old.

He's super tough, he's still super tough.

And and I said, You're not that warm, fuzzy type, you know.

And he says, Why were you calling every day?

He says, Son, I was doing a suicide check.

I go, I guess I passed.

Yeah.

Wow.

Oh, so it was a rough time then, very rough.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

So you go through that again.

You're like, you are running, you're not running during that

time, or yeah.

SPEAKER_06: Well, my what my ex-wife would say to me, she go,

how can you go out running when everything's going to hell?

I go, how can I not?

And I know you guys can relate to this.

After you get out there for about an hour, you know what I

mean?

You get the endorphins going, and then you can think straight

again.

And so that's the only way I could do it was to, you know, my

dad was worried I was gonna go back to drinking, but that that

wasn't gonna happen, man.

I just trained and trained and trained.

Nice.

I said, because that's the only way I could think, you know, I

get out there an hour.

And the thing about drinking, using that to numb yourself,

man, you you just you wake up in the morning and you got a big

hangover and the problem's twice as big.

You know, so I'm out there, I run off my problems.

I just run them off.

SPEAKER_04: We do the same thing.

My wife tells me now, whenever I'm whenever I'm in a bad mood,

she says, go for a run.

You'll be you'll feel better in about an hour.

Yeah, she knows.

SPEAKER_06: So true every time, man.

It's the greatest thing ever.

SPEAKER_04: Yep.

So you uh you're running, obviously, you're probably

getting in really good shape going through all the struggles

that you were going through at that point.

Yeah.

What um what what was your first like little inkling of like,

hey, I'm gonna do a I'm gonna do an ultra marathon or I'm gonna

do some big race?

Like when did that come along?

SPEAKER_06: You know what's funny was I I talked to my

ex-wife about you know doing a 50 miler.

And the thing was, was is I always trying to, I was doing

like, you know, always trying to do an Iron Man to qualify for

Hawaii, right?

And I remember when I was I don't know what I was 35 or

something, the 40-year-old qualifying time was was uh 12

hours, right?

So by the time I get to 40, I'm at an 1130 qualifying time in

the Iron Man, and but now it's down to like 10:30.

So so I kept getting a little bit faster, but the qualifying

time got a lot faster all the time.

And so, and then after I didn't qualify every year, I'd be all

depressed.

And so, because you because I would be shooting for this one

big race, you know, I'd do other races, but shooting for it every

year, and then I wouldn't make it, you know, because it was all

about time and making, you know, trying to be in in in Hawaii.

And uh, and I remember after this, after this bankruptcy hit

and everything, you know, I started thinking, I go, you

know, when I had the most fun was when I did my first Iron

Man.

You know what I mean?

My first one, and and really probably my first half Iron Man.

That was such a big accomplishment was after coming

off the bar stool, you know, to actually not just be walking the

talk, to be out there and actually doing a race and

finishing, you know.

I think I finished the Vine Man.

That was a huge deal to me because then when I went for my

first Iron Man, of course, in my tradition, I didn't finish.

It was 105 in Canada.

I never even knew it could be 105 in Canada.

And I remember I was on the bike and I and I think I was way

ahead of the time.

And I remember there was some guy, we were all really

suffering on the run because it was so hot and none of us knew

what we were doing.

And all they were telling us, because they didn't know what

they were doing either, the race directors back then, make sure

you drink a lot, make sure you drink a lot.

And of course, me, I'm like, sure.

And I kept getting, you know, I was getting hyponeutremic, I

think.

They didn't even know what it was called back then, but I got

weaker and weaker and weaker.

And then some guy was telling me the conditions of like heat

stroke, and he basically he was running with me and he talked us

both into quitting because we were in such bad shape.

And then I, you know, I'd bought like shirts and all this stuff,

and I I put them in the I put them in the uh the closet and I

go, I ain't wearing these till I finish this damn thing.

You know, so I came back the next year and I finished, you

know, I learned a little bit about heat, you know, but but

that's kind of how I got started in the the triathlons, and I was

doing the marathons at the same time.

And and and like I said, I was racing bikes too.

I had done that before, and then I was doing a lot of hundred

mile, the you know, the ultra, the hundred milers.

Yeah and uh I love doing all that for training and stuff, you

know.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.

So you were doing um how how many Ironmans have you

completed?

Do you know?

SPEAKER_06: I think I'm at nine.

Okay.

I have a tattoo.

I got a tattoo after I finished that first Canada Iron Man.

And I was like, I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get a tattoo for

every big ultra I do.

And then I was like, eh, I don't know if I like tattoos that

much.

So I still just got the first one.

I got a little Iron Man, you know, the little Canada and you

know, Canadian Iron Man tattoo.

But I loved it, man.

I was shining it up for years and showing it off.

SPEAKER_04: There you go.

Is it on your like right calf?

Isn't it supposed to be on your right calf?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, my left calf, yeah.

And I put it kind of off to the side because I was gonna have

one on the back and one on the side, and I was gonna be tatted

up, man.

And then I was like, I don't know.

I kept thinking, I I go, I don't, I don't know if this

one's worthy of a tattoo.

SPEAKER_04: Nice.

SPEAKER_06: I'll probably get another one someday.

SPEAKER_04: There you go.

What um so you're you're obviously, it sounds like you

were you kind of wanted to get into this rhythm of I want to

try things for the first time.

Like I want to experience something for the very first

time.

Am I correct on that statement?

SPEAKER_06: That was the biggest thing was that I learned was

going faster in the in the Ironmans and not making that

goal.

And if I went fast, you know, if I went a little bit, it wasn't a

big deal.

The big because you know what one made what I really realized?

I did the Ultraman in Hawaii.

You know what that one is?

It's like two and a half Ironmans, and it's like people

are badass who do that, man.

Like there's Olympians in that race and stuff, and somehow I

got in.

And uh and I went out there and I I finished it the first year,

and it was a huge deal, you know.

And I remember I made it by like 10 minutes or something, man,

and then and then I came back the next year and I knew

everybody, and it was great, and I finished it again, and it was

great, and I said, and then there was a girl, one of the

girls and who did it, they were talking about when she swam the

English channel, because they would they do a big award

ceremony and they talk up all your credentials and how she had

swam the English channel.

And I said, She only beat me by five minutes in the swim.

If she could swim the English channel, I could swim the

English channel.

So then the Ultraman was over and I was on to the English

Channel.

SPEAKER_05: Wow.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I showed up down in San Francisco Bay and

they go, they go, what are you doing?

I go, Oh, I'm gonna swim the English Channel.

They go, Well, how far have you swam?

I go, well, I did a 10K in a wetsuit in Hawaii, and they're

like, Well, what if you jump in there?

And it was like, I remember people were coming out of the

water and there was steam coming up, and they're coming out with

no wetsuit, and it like it looked crazy.

And he goes, he goes, she goes, What if you jump in and you

don't like it?

I go, Well, I already gave a $2,000 deposit, so I'm gonna

like it.

And within six months, I had done the six-hour qualifying

time for the channel, you know.

So yeah, I just like, you know, I didn't make it, but I

qualified for it and I got over there.

So I I love new challenges.

I absolutely love them, you know.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: And and I am not afraid of failure anymore.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.

No, none of us like it, but it it is a part of it is a part of

racing, especially when you're doing the events you uh the

events you're going out for and doing, correct?

Like you think about it we think about it like this.

That if we go out and run a 5k, we know we're gonna finish every

5, like we know we can finish every 5k.

The events that you're going out and doing, there's a question

mark of can I physically can my body, can I push my body to the

limit to finish this event every single time?

SPEAKER_06: It seems like I like that feeling, man.

I love when I hear something's like super hard, it's like it's

that same addiction comes back.

Super hard, I love it.

Like, and I literally, and I like I like it to be, you know,

a little bit dangerous too, man.

I won't kid you, man.

I like to have big stakes out there when I do these things.

I like to feel really alive, you know.

And I don't think things are that dangerous, you know, but

people do get killed.

And but it's usually because, you know, I don't know.

They're they usually are doing something wrong, you know.

That's what I like to think.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

Zach, if you got any questions.

SPEAKER_03: I'm just fascinated by this mindset because it it's

it's you almost approach goals completely different to the

normal person, let's say, even the normal endurance athlete

that's signing up for crazy things, Bill.

So one thing is I'm I'm fascinated to understand with

your train of thought and signing up for things.

Do you get more excited about the possibility of success, or

are you more excited about who you're you're discovering or

what you're discovering about yourself along the way?

Like what excites you more about crazy challenges?

SPEAKER_06: I like that it scares the hell out of me.

If it scares the hell out of me, I gotta do it, man, no matter

what.

You know, because most things are an illusion, you know,

you're not gonna die.

They just, you know, people all, you know, you you think you're

gonna die sometimes, and a lot of other people think it's

really dangerous, but if you get right to the nuts and bolts,

it's usually not as even you know, rock climbing, mountain

climbing, it's not as dangerous if you, you know, if you, you

know, do dot your I's and cross your T's and everything, you

know, and you do it.

But I I like I mean, if it this sounds terrible, but if I hear

somebody dies at something, I'm like, like I read that book into

thin air, and like seven people died climbing Everest.

I said, I'm doing that someday.

Because you know why?

I knew it was a freaking hard challenge, man.

I go, that is a freaking hard challenge.

And I don't care what people say about it, and they show those

lines going up the mountain, all that stuff.

You know what?

Those lines happen, probably because there was a big blizzard

that hit for multiple days.

That would be my guess.

Because we got hung up on Denali for like eight days.

Uh, in eight feet of snow, eight days I was stuck up there at the

10,000-foot camp because we were just getting for blizzard after

blizzard after blizzard.

And yeah, you know what?

When it finally cleared a little bit, yeah, it was a sambal line

going up that mountain too.

Because everybody wanted the hell out of that camp.

SPEAKER_05: Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: But it's uh I I like the challenge.

And if if it if if it is really dangerous to some people or

whatever, I like it, man.

You feel really alive when you're when you're in those

things where you just you gotta, you know, you gotta you gotta

really focus.

SPEAKER_04: What um what would you say are some of the coolest

challenges that you've done personally?

Like, what are some that you can look back on and remember and

say, like, I'll like obviously I feel like you probably will

never forget all of them.

However, what are some that are just like ingrained in your head

of like I'll never forget this moment?

SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think uh well, I always say the coolest

race I ever did was when I biked across America in like 16 days.

I was in Ram.

It was a 12-day cutoff.

I just we I just missed the cutoff.

And uh anyway, the guy said, you know, he was cool with you going

on because you got a whole crew, and so we finished it, you know,

in 16 days.

I was 18 hours a day on the bike seat.

My my butt hurt for a year, literally, man.

I was wearing four pairs of bike shorts at the end, and I was

doing a lot of standing.

And I remember when I was doing construction sales back then,

I'd go to lunch with guys and we'd walk into a restaurant and

I go, ooh, hard seats?

We can't eat here.

We gotta go to another restaurant.

Yeah, I really that really that did me in.

But but I always say like that was the coolest thing I ever did

because you're seeing America at like 15 miles an hour.

It's like you, you know what I mean?

It's it's not like driving in a car or something, man.

I mean, it it was quite an experience.

But like, you know, probably when I finished my first bad

water, you know, that was a big deal.

I mean, a huge deal.

I had uh, you know, I had um, I think I was another one of those

ones where I drank too much water.

I really didn't learn my lesson from that, you know, the one in

the can't Canadian experience.

And so when I got in Death Valley, it got like really hot,

and I'm just chugging off my camelback, and and they had

weighed like eight of us before, and they were doing a thing like

a like a test afterwards, what people all weighed.

And they weighed me in, they weighed me in, and then when

they then then I chugged all that water and and my legs were

cramping.

I just wouldn't quit, you know, and my legs were killing me.

If that's what I guess hyponeutremia is, your legs, it

felt like knives were going into my quads, and I just kept going

and I wouldn't quit.

It was a 60-hour cutoff back then, thank God, you know, uh,

and I made it in like 57 hours or something, but but finishing

that under so much pain, um, that uh I remember I went, you

know, under so under so much pain that it was amazing, you

know.

And that was it was labeled as the world's toughest uh race

back then, you know.

I mean, I still think that's what what they call it.

Um, but it's uh that was a big deal when I finished that.

That was a huge deal, a huge confidence builder for me.

That really got me going again after the bankruptcy.

That was like, wow, I'm I just finished Badwater, man.

That's that's a world-class race, you know.

And uh yeah, that was yeah, that was something else.

I remember I remember going back to the hotel that night, and I

was cramping so bad that I got inside of the bat a bath with

like cold water, whatever it was, I and I kept cramping even

in the cold water.

I cramped all the way through the night.

There was nothing I could do to stop the cramping.

It was like I had my crew chief in the room and I just kept

waking up going, ah, ah, ah, I I even had I called my dad because

I was supposed to drive myself home.

I go, I don't think I'm gonna be able to drive home tomorrow,

dad.

There's no way.

I go, I'm I'm really in pain.

To this day, I've never had cramp so bad as that, man.

I just wanted to finish that race so bad.

And I remember uh, but when I woke up in the morning, my dad

said, he goes, Well, call me when let me know how you feel in

the morning.

Go, Dad, I think I'm good this morning.

The cramp and it's not like I think I could drive home.

SPEAKER_05: Oh man.

SPEAKER_06: But yeah, that was a crazy race.

That was a big deal that I finished that though.

SPEAKER_04: Awesome.

Yeah.

What uh at what point were you like, are you doing multiple

events a year?

Were you doing like one event a year?

Like, how was that working out for all of these huge events?

Because you're obviously traveling all pretty much all

over the world, it seems like, to do different extreme events.

SPEAKER_06: I think when I was really rolling, I was doing like

seven events a year.

I I lost control.

It was like drinking in your heyday.

Yeah, I was just like, uh I was just I would take anything on

that scared the hell out of me, you know.

And the problem was was when I started swimming, you know,

people put weight on to swim the English channel because it's

cold like a seal, you know.

And then you're trying to run and you're trying to lose really

fast to get back.

And and I wasn't having much success doing that, you know.

So I'm now I try to um structure them where similar races that

feed off each other, like running and mountain climbing,

or running and rock climbing, or you know, it's pretty much

anything that anything but swimming only goes with

swimming.

They used to say, you know, cross-training for triathlons,

and I don't all the way get that, man.

It doesn't, it it it really, I guess it makes your m it helps

you recover, but I don't think it helps you fat be faster at

running.

It never helped me at all.

You know, the the running slowed down the swimming, and the

swimming slowed down the running.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I always found it to be uh um you could be

really good at two sports at one time, you could not be good at

all three.

SPEAKER_06: Ha ha ha, you're so right.

Yeah, you're so right.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: There's nothing like showing up to yeah, and then

you're you're still carrying that weight from the English

channel, and you're like, oh, this isn't smart, man.

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.

Any uh any epic bike bike events outside of Ram?

I've always wanted to do Ram.

Like Ram's a huge is huge on my bucket list.

Um, we also have Natchez Trace, the 444 in Mississippi, you

know, it's 444 miles from like North Nashville all the way to

uh Natchez, Mississippi.

I want to do that as well.

Um any other huge bike events kind of like those two that just

took it.

SPEAKER_06: The one I really liked that I did was the Furnace

Creek 508, but it's not around anymore.

Okay.

I don't think it made it through the pandemic.

But I really like that one.

That was out in Death Valley and you're climbing all these

different mountains.

And then um, yeah, the 500s are are big.

I did a 24-hour.

I did really good in that, you know.

Um, but I I did to get into Ram, I rode a two-man, but we were

like a day over the cutoff, but I did three-quarters of the

riding.

I got a guy off the internet and he really wasn't in shape.

And so I just said, I just said, screw it.

I'll take every mountain, every hill.

I, you know what I mean?

And I just went like hell, man.

And then and then I would take it from this guy, and and yeah,

I go.

It was like a bad internet date.

He showed up, he's like, he's got a boiler, right?

You know, and I was like, dude, that better be muscle.

We were doing a two-man, I was just trying to qualify, but then

I wrote I wrote a letter and I said, Man, I I did three

quarters of it.

I go, you know, I and I just told him all my qualifications

and he let me in, you know.

So nice because I wanted in so bad.

And then uh, but man, that that that yeah, that's a different

ball game that when you don't have somebody relieving you and

you're just doing it all yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_04: Yep.

What um what other just so I so I know because I'm curious, you

you climbed any other mountains besides uh besides obviously the

big one?

SPEAKER_06: Aguancago I've tried to climb.

So Denali, I've made it up to High Camp.

I only started doing the rock climb, the mountain climbing,

because it because it's so dangerous, you know.

And and I uh you know I took Denali because it was it's like

a poor man's, you know, it's well not a poor man's, it still

costs a lot of money, but not nearly what Everest cost.

Yeah, you know, so you can go up that for five I don't remember,

five to ten thousand, where Everest is like seventy thousand

or sixty thousand or something.

And so I go, well, I can afford Denali.

And so I remember I I went up there and the guy's like Well,

what are your qualifications, Bill?

What have you done?

I go, well, I climbed Whitney.

He goes, You've only climbed Whitney?

I go, Yeah, it was hard.

He goes, Well, this is really hard.

He goes, I'll need you to go through this like weekend camp

or through or four-day camp with this guy.

And he's gonna, he's gonna show you some basics, and and you

can't get away with what I always what I could get away

with.

You can't get you, I could get away with you, ain't gonna get

away with now.

But and so I went down to this four-day camp with this guy, and

this guy was tough, man.

He was he was really tough.

He had the record at the time for the fastest climb up

reineer, and and I was in really good running shape, you know.

And so this guy was like working my ass off, but we were like,

you know, I don't know.

I was just I yeah, yeah, I I passed.

I don't know how the guy hated me, but I passed.

I know one story was he said, because I didn't know a lot

about mountain climbing or anything, right?

And we're up there and we get hit with a blizzard, man.

It's like blowing like all hell.

I'd never been in one of these.

And and it was like, we gotta hold on to everything, Bill.

If we lose our tent, we're dead.

And I go, okay, we won't lose our tent.

I'm holding on to that, baby.

And so we're hold we're holding everything down, and then this

thing finally settles down a little bit, and we get in our

camp, and then he tells us, he goes, he goes, Well, your our

pee place is over here where this little stake is, this

yellow stake over there.

You need to pee by that yellow stake, right?

Well, this blizzard had kicked back up in the night, right?

And so I look out there and I go, like, I can't even see where

that yellow stake is.

I'm just gonna pee right outside the tent, right?

Who's gonna care about that, right?

So this guy wakes up in the morning and he's like, Who peed

outside the tent?

Who pee?

I go, must have been the other guy.

He goes, You never pee outside the tent.

Never.

And I was like, wow, this guy was really tough, man.

And uh, but he passed me because I, you know, because I because

I'm mentally I'm tough, and I just kept, I wouldn't, I

wouldn't give it into any of his stuff.

I never quit.

I just kept doing it all, you know.

And so I ended up passing, and I go up to Denali, and I had one

Whitney under my belt in a four-day camp, and that was my

mountain climbing experience, you know, and uh and I mean not

to Whitney to ever I mean to Denali.

And that first year I go up there, two people die on the

mountain, you know.

I mean, it's that's a crazy mountain, man.

We and I got I ended up uh they uh when we that first year we

were climbing and I got sick, you know.

And I remember I had I had I had bought like a cell phone, one of

those, the the fancy ones, you know, like a I don't know,

whatever they are, they go up to the sky, you know.

A sackphone?

Yeah, I rented one of those.

And so I could call.

And so I was like, I knew it when I was in, when I was up

there in Talkeetna, which is where you start your climb, and

I said, Oh, I don't feel good.

No, I can't not feel good.

This is must be in my mind.

And so I said, I'm not gonna not feel good.

And so I so I started climbing anyway, even though I wasn't

feeling good.

I got up to Len 10,000 feet and I really feel terrible.

And I called my dad because I didn't tell anybody, I just was

kept climbing.

And then I called my dad, I go, Dad, I think I feel really sick

now.

And I go, I go, I don't know if I should keep going up.

He goes, keep going up, Bill, keep, you know, as his his

marine soil core self coming kept coming up.

You can do it, Bill.

Keep going.

And so so I keep climbing and I get sicker and sicker and

sicker.

I get up to the 14,000-foot camp and I'm so sick.

And I like, I like, I like, I I I, you know, the now we got

another blizzard hitting up there, and I it's like minus

five, and I go to sleep, and I'm so I'm so delirious and so out

of it that I wake up and my hands outside the sleeping bag,

right?

And I'm like, no, because you know, that's how you lose your

hand or your fingers, and I put it up under my armpit and I

warmed it up, and I go, I go, oh, thank God that I uh, you

know, I that I got it in time because it warmed up, and then I

said, I'm quitting.

And I and I I told the guy, I said, dude, I don't feel good.

I gotta go down, man.

I'm really screwed up.

And uh I ended up going down with a guy who had he had boot

bang.

He it was a Russian guy, and we were tent mates, and we were

best like best buddies, but then they rope you together, and I'm

super sick, I'm super weak, I keep falling.

He's got this boot thing going, so he keeps falling.

We're like on a chain gang together, and we were best

buddies by the end.

We couldn't even talk to each other.

We just kept kept yanking each other all over the place.

SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06: But I never quit, so I've been back up like five more

times.

SPEAKER_03: So, Bill, you don't seem to be scared of the extreme

spectrum from the cold of Arrowhead 135, sub-freezing

temps to bad water and all kind of crazy stuff.

Mentally, in your opinion, which requires a darker place to push

through?

SPEAKER_06: I you know, I hear this a lot, and it's usually

what I'm doing right at the time, you know what I mean?

So I did rock climbing because you hear people call things like

like there's a race in Tall and they call it the death ride, you

know.

Has anybody really ever died in the death ride?

Probably not.

But have people died rock climbing?

Lots.

Like every one of these guys who are my buddies who are rock

climbers have people they know who've died, you know, friends.

I mean, it's real.

And so I go, man, I'm gonna become a rock climber because

it's real.

And uh I remember I said, I gotta climb half dome.

You know, I just wanted to climb half dome.

And I remember I was uh, where was I at?

I was in some gym and I said, Yeah, I got it on my goal is to

climb half dome.

And the guy goes, Oh, no, he had worked, he was a he was like a

ranger down in Yosemite, and he lived in the same apartment

complex I did.

And I said, What do you think?

Can I climb half dome?

He goes, No way, you'd never be able to climb half dome.

I go, Well, I heard there's an easier way up, right?

What there is, there's the hike, right, on the backside, then

there's the face, and then there's a snake dike route,

which is up this kind of the side, and it's like eight

pitches.

And I said, Well, what about the snake dike route?

No way, you'll never even be able to do that.

And then I go, now I'm doing it for sure, asshole.

That always works.

And so I remember I get up on this thing talking about being

scared, right?

You know, because I have this fear of heights.

I mean, I realized it on Denali when I'd get up on the high

pitches that I would start gripping so bad, I would waste

so much energy because I had this huge fear of heights.

So, what do you do if you got a fear of something?

You gotta attack it, right?

SPEAKER_05: To get over it.

SPEAKER_06: So I had all, I had a I when I went to that Tony

Robbins thing, like when I was 30 years old, I'd wrote down all

my fears because he's a big fan of attacking all your fears.

And somehow, two of the fears that I hadn't attacked, the only

two that were left, were bungee jumping and skydiving.

And so I said, at that point where I kept having this this

fear breakdown on on uh on Denali, like I would just grip

so bad, I'd waste so much energy.

I said, I need to go at that.

So I go, I'm gonna go up and skydive.

I'm gonna do skydiving and bungee jumping.

So I remember I went up to do a just a tandem skydive, and I had

just ridden a commercial flight up from LA, and they, you know,

we got some uh, you know, some bumpy sky, and it's like put

your seatbelt on, everybody sit down and all this.

And then I'm in this little dinky plane, and we're going up,

and it takes forever to get up, and we're winding up, and it's

bumping all over the place, and then we get up to like whatever

it is, 10,000 feet, and the guy opens the door and the wind's

whipping around.

I go, holy cows, this isn't Disneyland anymore, this is in

Kansas.

And he and we have to walk towards that door and jump out,

and and I, you know, and and the guy afterwards said, Bill, I

have never felt, I've done 4,000 jumps, I've never felt anybody

as stiff as you were ever.

And I said, That's because I thought I was gonna die the

whole way down.

I just, you know how they say it feels like you're floating, it

doesn't.

And then, like, like three weeks later, I went up and did a

bungee jump, you know, and that was off this bridge.

And the guy, remember the guy was like, okay, we we met, and

it was during the pandemic and all that stuff.

I I tried not to let that pandemic slow me down too much.

I did everything I could.

Anyway, and so I uh I went up and did this uh, you know, on

the you he says, This is how we do it.

We go up there, you know, we have a little meeting in this

campground.

He says, I meet you at like, I forget, five in the morning or

four in the morning.

We go up, or no, it was in the afternoon, and we go up to where

this uh this bridge is, and we all go out there and and we and

we jump one by one, and then we pull each other up and we do it.

And then he says this to me, you know, I think it's after we all

gave him our checks.

He goes, you know, I don't have a permit, so this isn't legal

what we're doing.

So we do it at right before dark, so they can't catch us.

I go, oh, I like it.

And so and so I remember, man, I got up there.

I I thought the bungee jumping personally was easier than the

rock climbing, but there was a guy who had shared his story

that he'd got up there the year before, and they count you down,

it's like five, four, three, two, one, and they'll do it

twice.

And if you can't do it on the second one, then you're done,

right?

And he had told that he got counted out both times the year

before, and that and he thought of it every day that he didn't

have the courage to jump.

And so he said, he and so he had told us all the story, and then

it's his turn, and he's in front of me, right?

And he stands there and he freezes up, and they count him

down once, like and he can't jump.

I go, no, dude, you this I didn't say it to him, I'm

singing it to myself.

I go, you gotta jump, man.

You were you're freaking haunted by it for a year.

You gotta jump.

And and the second time he jumped, and it was so huge.

I think that helped me give gave me the courage to jump too,

because he had done it, you know.

So it was a big deal.

But that guy was so smiley afterwards, he had conquered

that demon, you know.

So, but that's what I did to get out, you know.

I, you know, and then the same, so I get up on um, I go up to

climb half dome, and I get a guy who's a really good rock

climber, like a great rock climber, as my lead guy, because

that guy's got to keep me alive, you know.

And so when I remember I went down there, and you get up and

and you get all that exposure up there, and you're on that

granite, and it gets to a part where you can't, there's nothing

to grab onto.

He can't help you with the rope.

Uh, you end up, he cuts you loose on the rope.

You're both just kind of walking on this granite slab, and and

uh, and you know, and if you fall, I don't know.

It's not good if you fall, put it that way.

And I remember when we're when we were doing some practice

training, and uh actually I think it was on the way up this

to where we were, you know, to c to this climb.

But there's one area he told me, goes, Bill, this this area here

is a no-fall zone.

I can I've been in a lot of null phosons on Denali on this, you

know.

Those are like kind of interesting.

Anyway, so he uh he says you you can't fall here, man.

And it's like it's like this little skinny trail, you know,

on the gr and it's all granite on both sides, looks slippery,

and then you know, and because I got nothing to tie it to, so you

got to do this on your own, you know.

And so I remember he but he goes down below me, right?

And I'm thinking, like, what is he doing below me?

You know, what how is he gonna, what's he gonna do if I start

falling down this, you know, this this slab, you know?

And then and then it's like you know, he all he's telling me is

don't fall, don't do this.

Then I got another guy who's a really advanced climber, who's

my camera guy, and he's filming me with no hand, you know, just

his feet, and then his foot slips and he catches himself.

Because those guys are so good.

It's like second nature to him, you know.

And then he's down below me as I'm climbing, and and I'm

thinking, like, well, what the hell is he doing down there?

I'm just gonna take him out too.

And he goes, you know, and then I asked him afterwards, after I

made it, and I was like taking all these deep breaths.

Like, it really wasn't even that bad.

It's just this like like like Alex Honnell would say for free

solo.

That was not a hard climb for him, but the circumstances are

really bad if he falls.

Like for me, the circumstances are really bad.

But what he said that he was gonna do for me down below, he

goes, I was gonna pancake you, Bill.

I was just gonna fall on you if you started falling, and I was

gonna flatten you out and flatten me out, and we were just

gonna grind down till we stopped.

I go, Oh, good plan, I like it.

That's the kind of guy you want in your corner, man, on your

crew, man, on your team, man.

But yeah, I mean that, but we got up there, and I when we got

up, we it's like eight pitches on that.

That's and and I got up, I don't know, maybe it was five or six.

It was the highest exposure I've ever had on a mountain, you

know, and and you're looking out and you're 2,000 feet up, and I

just was gripping like crazy, man.

And I said, I go, I think I gotta go down, man.

This is this is this is just something else, man.

And uh he uh, you know, so he took me down.

And it it's it's so hard to go down rock climbing, you know.

Like, I don't know if you ever watched Alex Honnold any of his

videos when he's free soul and the guy goes, This is the point

of no return.

Once he makes this, it's harder to go down than it is to keep

going up.

I think we turned around after the point of no return because

it was really hard to go down.

He says, Bill, that was so hard to go down, we're going up next

time.

You get that high again, we're going all the way up.

But yeah, so you know, I still got that on my list.

So I I went up one more time and got snowed out, and uh, it's

still on there.

But I I like, I do like, I like pushing myself to the limits,

you know.

SPEAKER_04: Yep.

That's awesome, man.

Oh, I I got a question for you because we we're route rolling

up right on an hour right now, so I'm gonna ask you a few more

questions.

I think Zach may have a one or two more.

What is something that you would say to somebody, let's say my

age, I'm I'm 30 years old or 32 years old.

What is something that you would say to me or somebody like me

that's trying to get into endurance sports or maybe not

really sure where they're going in life, those type of things.

Based off of all the experiences you've had.

SPEAKER_06: I think it should just get out and start, you

know.

I'm a big fan of learning in the arena, you know, in that arena.

I remember there was a guy, I was I kept doing these races,

and I would come back to the the bike, you know, I were I was

seeing I was getting my bike worked on at the same rate bike

place, you know, and I was doing the triathlons and I was doing

this, and he kept talking about some race he was gonna do, and

he was taking the he had like those gear shifters, you know,

and he cut the ends off to get his bike that much lighter with

the ends.

He was on all this detail, but he never went out and did his

race.

He just kept talking about it and tweaking it.

And here I'm gaining a lot of experience, and I got stories.

I got stories.

He's only got bike shop stories, you know, about how he cut the

end off his gears, but I'm out there getting real life

experience.

And and so I'm making it further in my sport, you know, because I

was doing tries and I think he was racing something else.

But then he wasn't his because he wasn't even trying.

He was just like he kept prepping so much and trying to

be perfect that he never got off the start line.

So just get out there and start, then make your notes of what you

need to improve if you get your butt kicked by whatever you do.

But you're in the arena and you can stand tall and you can look

people in the eye.

That's all I can say.

Once you get in the arena, that's the big deal.

SPEAKER_04: Yep.

Zach, you got anything else for our man here?

SPEAKER_03: I don't think I can follow that up with a question.

I think that's the perfect mic drop the way you just ended with

that one.

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06: You guys are so great.

Did I answer your question, Zach, on the last one?

I I get a little off course sometimes.

SPEAKER_04: No, you're good, Bill.

We appreciate you, brother.

I'm gonna let I'm gonna I I want to talk about Arrowhead 135, and

maybe we do that later.

But I also want to let because I I I have a feeling our audience

has not seen your actual documentary.

So you want to give us a brief snippet, 20 seconds of what they

can expect on that documentary.

Um and then maybe we'll talk about it again in let's say six

months or something like that.

Give everybody the opportunity to watch it.

SPEAKER_06: That sounds great, man.

Yeah, yeah.

Did you did you see Epic Bell, Zach?

SPEAKER_02: Or did you see one of the things that was okay?

I well, I think I take that back.

I think it was 40 below, the one with Arrowhead 135.

SPEAKER_06: Yeah.

Yeah, that's another one.

I'm in I'm in like six documentaries right now.

Four of them I made, I paid for, but two I didn't.

So that's a good sign, right?

But anyway, yeah, yeah, 40 below is great, man.

That's uh uh that that's on that arrowhead race.

I'm the main feature guy in it.

It really shows how cold Arrowhead is, uh, that

International Falls.

But the one on my life, actually, they they came out and

filmed me at you know at Arrowhead.

Uh, and I remember my my my sister had asked me, um, what do

you think about my son doing a documentary and his friends

doing a documentary?

I mean, he's getting ready, graduated from film school.

I go, well, I think that sounds freaking great because I really

I've always had the goal of inspiring millions.

I always think big, right?

And so I go, I think that's great, man.

And so he uh, these three kids, you know, they're all from LA.

And I had met him out here in uh, you know, on a beach out

here, and I was pulling my sled, Dillon Beach, I think up in

Santa Rosa, and these kids all came out and started filming me.

And they're like 23 years old, you know, and I said, Well, I

hope you know we're gonna win the Academy Award, because I

always think big.

And I I always like to put, I put a lot of pressure on myself,

but I also put it on everybody else around me.

You gotta be great, man, if you want to hang out.

We're gonna try for greatness anyway.

And so these kids came out and they did phenomenal, just

phenomenal.

They were, it was, it was my sister called me.

She goes, I looked at the forecast, it's gonna be minus

40.

Those kids are from LA.

You better hire somebody out there to drive them around so

they don't die.

And so I hired a local guy and he's great.

He was taking them around, and they every time there was a

crossroad with the trail, they'd come all piling out.

They were all dressed in dark, so they looked like ninjas

running around out there and filming me.

And the it actually won like two film festivals, and they did a

phenomenal job, just phenomenal on it.

But that's Epic Bill.

SPEAKER_04: Okay.

All right.

So for the audience listening, go find Epic Bill.

Where can they find that at?

SPEAKER_06: It's on Amazon and Apple TV.

SPEAKER_04: Perfect.

SPEAKER_06: So, yeah, it's the real deal, it's very inspiring.

We just showed it at a junior high, uh not high school, but it

was like uh, you know, freshmen and sophomores when I was

getting cut, right?

And so all these kids were there watching the movie.

We showed it, we showed it multiple times to like 190 kids,

and they were locked in, man.

They were because I was thinking this is a good test.

14, 15-year-olds are used to three minute YouTube videos, and

they were locked in and they loved it, man.

So we're uh yeah, I'm a big fan of that inspiring the young kids

too, you know.

SPEAKER_04: Perfect.

That's awesome, man.

We appreciate you so much for coming on.

We're gonna try to have you uh have you back on soon at some

point, maybe six six months from now, but we're gonna definitely

try to get you back on here, Bill.

We appreciate you so much.

SPEAKER_06: You guys are the best, man.

The best.

Endurance state of mind, power.

Woo, woo!

SPEAKER_04: Thank you, sir.

We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_06: Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_04: See you, Mr.

SPEAKER_03: Bill.

unknown: Bye.

SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Turn it up.

Yeah.

From back roads to start lines, early mornings, late nights,

miles on the pavement, head down, chasing daylight.

Mississippi heartbeat, sweat mixed with the grind, pain in

the legs, but it's stall in the mind, a dirt state of mind where

the weeds don't last.

On the miles long rides, we're built for the fast.

In the future, no shortcuts, no fit and tests, which order your

punishment, give it your best.

Five case, the hundreds trail dust in our lungs.

Every story yearned, every finish hard won, no hype, just

proof, no filters, no cap.

Suffer for growth, get a podcast.

Most divide a miles, not the flame or the shine.

If you know, then you know.

SPEAKER_01: All right.

State of mind.