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James Haskell Unfiltered: From England Caps to Global Stages

In this episode of Rugby Legends, Arthur Dickins is joined by James Haskell, one of the most recognisable personalities English rugby has produced. A former England and Wasps flanker with 77 caps, James is also now one of the voices behind The Good, The Bad & The Rugby, and a performer in a whole new world as a DJ.

James takes Arthur right back to the beginning, including the hilarious moment his mum lied about his age and signed him up early at Maidenhead Rugby Club. From scoring his first “try” behind his own posts to learning what rugby actually was as a teenager, James shares how his journey was anything but a straight line.

As the conversation goes deeper, James explains why size and physical development changed everything, how hard work and professionalism earn respect faster than personality ever can, and what really matters when you walk into a new changing room. He also breaks down the modern back row, why shirt numbers mean less than people think, and how elite teams are built around roles, not labels.

This episode is packed with practical advice for young rugby players, from building confidence the right way, to handling feedback, to learning resilience when you do not feel like turning up. James is funny, honest, and brutally real, and the result is one of the most valuable mindset episodes Rugby Legends has done so far.

1 Arthur: Hi, I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends

podcast.

In each episode, I interview an amazing rugby player or coach to

give the insight and advice for young rugby players just like

me, who are keen to learning it better.

In this episode, I'm speaking with James Haskell, ex England

and wasps Flanker, and more recently podcaster and superstar

dj.

James is a big physical forward who could play across the back

row to great effect.

He won 77 caps for England, as well as playing for clubs in

England, New Zealand, Japan, and France before retiring 2019.

Many of you'll be familiar with James as one of the hosts of the

good, the Bad, and the Rugby.

He's a great storyteller and really funny.

I hope you find James' knowledge, wisdom as helpful as

I did.

Enjoy! so firstly, James, how did you get into rugby and how

old were you when you started?

James: So I got into rugby when I was five years old.

My mum lied about my age and signed me up to the U7s at

Maidenhead Rugby Club.

my dad basically, you are too young, to know this, but back in

the day you couldn't have a drink in a pub on a Sunday.

they used to be closed.

But rugby clubs, you could have a pint.

So my dad took me down there so he could have a beer so my mum

could get me and my brother out the house, and see if she could

have some of her own time.

So yeah, she signed me up to U5s.

and I was at Maidenhead Rugby Club for that the rest of my

career really, up until the age of 16.

And then I moved across to, I was actually going to Wellington

College at the time.

and I basically was playing Saturday with Wellington,

Wednesday with Wellington and Sunday with, Maidenhead.

But it's basic excuse to get me out of the house and for my dad

to be able to have a pint, really.

Arthur: did you ever tell anyone about the secret that you've

played two years up?

James: no.

to be fair, I was quite a big kid, so I didn't really ever, I

never wanted to be a rugby player, really.

I'm not like your generation where we used to have three

channels on the tv.

That was the end of it.

We didn't have social media, we didn't have access to all the

sport.

BBC would put on the, international games and that's

how you would watch it.

But I never really wanted to do that.

as a young guy, I was obviously playing up.

I didn't really understand what was going on.

five was quite young.

My childhood was all about, all I wanted to do was really drive

a digger or be in the SAS, really.

So I used to just spend all my time in the garden pretending to

dig holes, dressed in army gear, like doing missions on the

neighbour's house, building forts, doing all that kinda

stuff.

when my dad, I was old enough, my dad got me a BB gun, so spent

mostly shooting my brother.

so I never really wanted to do that kind of stuff really.

But I when I got to about 14 was when I started to understand

rugby, but most of the time I had no idea.

my first, training session, I remember at Maidenhead, I got

the ball, I ran and I scored, and a parent on the sidelines

said, oh you silly boy.

And I, I couldn't understand why, and I realised I'd scored

behind my own posts.

so I'd scored by my own try line not knowing what was going on.

So I wasn't, yeah, I don't think there was any idea of really

lying about my, thing because I no one knew that I, didn't know

what I was doing as it was at the best of times, really.

But I was quite tall, so that kind of made a difference.

Arthur: That must have helped.

James: Yeah, it did.

Yeah, a hundred percent it did.

like I said, because I never wanted to, because I never

really wanted to be a rugby player, the size part of it.

Really kicked in when I was about 15 when I, trialled for

England under sixteens.

Didn't get in and, I didn't really do any, of the extra

training.

Have any of the sort of discipline that you, needed?

Really?

I was chasing girls and being at school and didn't really know

what fitness was or lifting weights.

And I didn't get into, my dad came to me after it and said,

listen, you can either play rugby for a bit of fun or you

can put all the work in, you didn't put in.

A friend of the family was a personal trainer, so you know,

I'll, pay.

He said he paid for me to train, and so twice a week I started

lifting weights.

So then my size then became really relevant from 15 to 17, a

two-year span where I suddenly got bigger and fitter.

But I was just tall.

I was pretty tall and lanky really.

But I, but only when I was turned about 15, 16 did I start

putting on muscle and then ended up being the massive meathead

he's talking to now,

Arthur: How tall were you at 15 or 16?

James: do you know what?

One minute I was your age, riding mountain bikes and having

fun, and then suddenly I was playing professional sport.

Then I was retired, then I was a dad, and now I'm now I'm 40, but

I think I was probably 15, 16.

I was definitely about 6'1".

I remember when I was about 17, I started with wasps.

I weighed a hundred kilos is what, where I started.

and by the time I finished my career, I got up to about 120.

I always had big, my dad was a big guy, had big bones and big

features.

So I think I was always quite dense, but certainly I was very

tall and lanky for a long period of time, but not super tall.

look, people think I'm taller than I am because of how wide I

am.

'cause it looks like I left the coat hanger in the back of my

t-shirt.

You know what I mean?

I'm wide, I'm pretty wide.

I don't fit on normal planes, unfortunately.

Arthur: When did you know for sure that it was going to be a

career for you?

James: I think probably 19 or 20 I think I basically got this

opportunity with Wasps.

I wanted to give it a go.

I'm still at, I was still at Wellington.

I basically went and did a preseason camp with Wasps when I

was still at school before I got into the lower six, they call

it.

I was in the lower six and I was going to the upper six.

I did this preseason, I went to Poland with the Wasps team, we

trained, I mixed it with some of the bigger guys.

They offered me a contract and I thought, you know what, for some

bizarre reason I was going to apply to read history at Exeter

University.

I've got no idea why.

and so I basically said, look, you know what?

I'll defer my university entry for a year.

I'll give it a go.

And then they offered me another contract.

I basically every year, it was one year, two year, I never

signed a long term deal really.

So I suppose that's when I Knew there was an opportunity.

And then when I played for England when I was 21, that was

when I suddenly was like, actually, this is really cool.

This is what I want to do.

This is why I am happy to get my head kicked in.

This is why I want to put the training in the kind of,

sacrifice in.

But yeah, it was around that point.

It was never before that.

And I never really thought I was going to play for England.

And when I did, I just wanted more of it.

Arthur: Who's your best mate on the team?

James: Actually my best friend in my, in the world is a guy

called Paul Doran-Jones.

He, him and I have been best friends since about 16.

He came from another school.

we didn't like each other at first.

We hated each other, but actually we bonded when there

was an older guy at school, we were both coming upstairs and

the older school gold guy tried to bully me or tried to do

something and We both filled them in.

Like he, I think he tried to start on one, one of us and then

both Paul and I ended up beating, the crap out of him.

And we bonded.

We bonded over that and we were friends ever since.

And then, Paul went off to Ireland.

He went off to read Medicinal Chemistry at Trinity.

He played for Leinster.

I went for wasps.

He then, I think he came to WASP for a bit and we bonded over

that.

And then, He then got into the England side when he was at

Gloucester, and so it was like, I brought a friend to Work day.

Really?

All the lads were like, oh my God, they've literally arranged

for your best friend to come to training.

But most of the time he was in different teams or different

vibes and he got 8 caps and then he had a daughter.

and so he basically put all his energy into being a dad and

sacrificed some of his career.

Which every parent will always put their kids first and

sacrifice.

And that's why I was quite lucky that I had my daughter after I

finished.

Arthur: What a good way to start Friendship.

James: Yeah, Great way to start a friendship.

Filling someone in is always a bond.

I don't always get into trouble with your mum, but yeah, it's

always a good way to bond over, especially after someone tried

to.

Tried to give it the big, yeah, we, I don't really feel bad

about it'cause he, I think he tried to make me carry his books

or do something for him or make him toast.

And we told him to get lost.

then he swung at one of us, one of us ducked, and we both filled

him in.

And then I think the final moment was, he had a pencil

case, a transformer pencil case, and the final moment where

someone just threw it at him and just hit him in the head so they

didn't mess with us again.

Arthur: How different are the jobs of an open side flanker

versus a blind side flanker?

James: you know what, back in the day, when even when I was

younger and started playing, there was a quite a distinct

role, because teams were very set in their ways.

Actually now the number on your shirt doesn't really matter.

It's more about the makeup of the back row.

It's about, if you've got three players.

Who's your big tackler?

Who's your destructive tackler?

Who's good over the ball?

And who's a big ball carrier?

And luckily the top players have all three of it.

Back in the day, the number seven would invariably come off

the scrum, come off the line-out, hit the number 10.

That doesn't happen anymore.

You don't get anywhere near that anymore.

And most back row players are quite tall.

So all guys are involved in the line-outs.

The better ball carrier will be out in the backs, carry the ball

off short line-outs.

The better line-out forward will be in there.

I think unfortunately a lot of the media and a lot of the press

still think it's like, early 90's, early 2000's when number

sevens were like the size of Neil Back.

Actually if you've got big units across the board, that's fine.

If you play traditionally.

Which, the seven seven would be your normally faster guy would

be better over the ball.

But now the responsibility of all three players is to be good

at turnovers, good at tackling.

you might have, with the England back row when I was playing, I

was a destructive tackler.

I was a big ball carrier, Billy Vunipola was a massive ball

carrier.

Chris Robshaw was good.

Over the ball, was a workhorse, wasn't, was good at tackling,

but wasn't that destructive.

Carried the ball, but not, really.

So he, so we flitted around in different roles.

Then when Eddie Jones came in, I played seven because I could

bash people.

I was good over the ball.

And so it varies really, but I think a lot of the time the

game's moved on, but people haven't really moved on with it,

Arthur: What makes a great teammate and who are they for

you?

James: You know what the best thing about playing team sport,

and I think why it's so important for kids to play sport

and team sports is you learn that the game is bigger than

you.

So as an individual sportsman, you can be selfish, you can have

tantrums, you can do whatever.

But as a team, sportsman your problems and your cares stop at

the changing room door.

When you're in there, you have to put the team forward.

And I think for me, good teammates weren't always the

same as me.

there's a big belief that you have to get on with everyone.

You don't, you'd have to be friends, everyone.

You don't have to be mates with everyone, but you have to have a

mutual respect.

You have to pull in the right direction and you have to be

committed to what you're doing.

And so I was very lucky in my career, I was surrounded by

loads of good teammates because actually, if you were a bad

teammate, you weren't involved.

Some of the best guys like Dylan Hartley, Courtney Lawes, Danny

Care.

These guys were brilliant.

Billy Vunipola, there was, everyone had their sort of roles

and, I was an entertainer.

I'd bring energy, I'd bring vibe.

Other guys brought discipline, dedication, focus, and for me,

the reason I was able to be a bit like the class clown was

because I was harder working, if not harder working than anyone.

I was first one out, last one in, and I would always work on

that, on that stuff.

that was a massive, thing for me.

Arthur: A bit like Henry Pollock.

James: Yeah.

See that, that Henry pollock's a great example because you.

If you just took him as a young player, he's lots of talent.

really has these massive moments.

But if you ask all his teammates, he's really focused.

He's really dedicated.

He's a good team man.

If he was a.

Like he in the game and was like really flashy and big moments,

but wasn't a good teammate.

wasn't committed, didn't work hard.

People would get sick of it.

'cause unlike football, when you've got your Ronaldos, your

Messi's, your Haaland's...

Guys like that, they can be individuals'cause they're higher

paid than anyone.

they can have a lot of influence on the game.

If you're a rugby player, there's 14 other players,

sometimes if you are the most talented, but you're a terrible

team man, it's not worth having you on the side.

Nobody's that good.

Really.

Unfortunately.

May, maybe there's been a few guys like a.

A Jason Robinson, a Richie McCaw a Dan Carter, that you would,

let them be however they want to be.

But luckily, all of those guys were super professional.

So the thing with Henry Pollock is he brings energy, he brings a

vibe.

he is incredible player.

He's down to earth.

He's very hardworking, and he cares about the team.

And so that's why he, that's why he's the way he is,

Arthur: You played in several different clubs in different

countries.

How did you navigate being a new person in an established squad?

James: that is a great question.

Do you know what I think, first of all, no one likes to be the

new person.

Everyone gets nervous about meeting people, but ultimately,

you if you know that you're a good player and you're

hardworking, being hardworking and professional does all the

talking for You.

I'm obviously a bit of an acquired taste as a person.

I'm a bit like Marmite.

People either love me or they hate me.

Lots of people don't like me and, but my, the one thing that

I always kept was my incredible hard work, my dedication to

getting better and my resilience.

And so if people were a bit unsure about your personality,

and you're a bit loud, as long as they saw you are working the

house, training the house down, working hard, and you were

prepared to smash people, then that kind of did all the

talking.

So that's what I used to do.

I used to come in, be super professional, be myself, and

then people get to like you, and that's the way to, that's the

way to do it.

The only, the trickiest part places were like France and

Japan, because the language barrier.

I, couldn't, I try and learn Japan was a nightmare.

that's like the hardest language in the world.

And learning French.

I probably should have put more effort in.

One of my teammates, guy called Ollie Phillips did, basically

look, became fluent and he probably had a better experience

or was accepted more by his teammates than maybe I was.

because, I couldn't really converse.

And half the time about being a good teammate is you get an

opportunity to chat with people and have a laugh and give, give

it some banter,

Arthur: What's the fastest way to lose respect in a changing

room?

James: the fastest way to lose respect in a changing room is,

three, four ways really.

not hygiene, so not washing.

that's a big one.

I'd say not turning up to team socials is another one.

Even if you don't drink, just still would turn up number.

I think Number three, this isn't an order, but number three is

not working hard.

He's not doing what's required for the team.

and number four is talking rubbish about your teammates.

And people are, look what players forget is that the

coaches pick the team, that other players don't pick the

team.

So there's no point having the hump with the teammate who plays

in the same position as you.

'cause they don't pick them.

If I have choice to pick myself, I'd always have picked myself.

So what I used to say to teammates was.

listen, let's go hard.

Let's kick the crap out of each other.

Let's do whatever.

But remember that once a selection's been made, it's

about helping each other, and that's what we did.

I always showered, I always turned up to team socials.

I never trash talked my competition.

So I was always quite good at that.

But those four things, if you don't do them, then you are

going to, you're going to get thrown out.

And eventually the coaches realise that's not right and

they've been you.

Arthur: That's amazing advice.

What wisdom do you have now that you wish you had when you

started out in the game?

James: the wisdom I have is I wish I believed in myself more.

I think that I spent a lot of time worried about what people

thought or playing inside myself or not being as confident as I

should be.

And what I realised was, being a professional sportsman, some of

the best years of your life, you were being paid to be in shape,

you were being paid to perform, and you should have believed in

yourself really more really.

And that's wisdom I had.

And remembering that you only get one career and you

ultimately need to look after your, look after yourself and do

what's best for you.

But within the realms, as I've talked about, being a good team

man, if you're not feeling the best, but they ask you to front

up in a contact session, you've got to do it.

But would I do back to back contact sessions?

Would I have played super injured?

Would I force myself to do things that I probably knew were

not right for me?

Now?

I would now, I would say no.

I'd say I'm not doing that.

That's not right for me, that's not, and I, would've done that

as well as believe myself more.

Arthur: How can you believe in yourself more?

James: so when you first start your career, there's lots of

moments in your life that that, are uncertain.

If you ever want to hear that you're amazing, speak to your

mum.

that's because mums love you come what may, but they also,

most of the time I haven't got a clue what's going on.

They just, oh, my mum certainly didn't, she would always say,

you did really well.

So, that was a bit of a biased commentary.

My dad was harsher, so he would be like, look, you didn't do

well.

So that's, he would be more critical.

So that wasn't an accurate thing.

So what you would do is every time you did something good or

you proved that you'd done something well in the game,

you'd almost write that down and go look, that's an undeniable

fact.

That is like a tech that's a moment in time that no one can

take away from you.

So your first England cap, you know you're a good player

because you've got an England cap.

That's fine if you get two England caps.

You, are already better than you were before.

if you do a big carry and you beat someone, you know you can

beat someone.

And so even if you have that self-doubt or that voice in your

head that says you can't do it, you need to do that.

And I think confidence also comes from practice.

Hard work, looking for feedback, but feedback from the right

people.

Not your mum, not your dad, not people that have a vested

interest in telling you that you're amazing.

It's from people that don't need to say it.

It's teammates, it's peers.

And it's also, Believe in yourself.

like things like confidence comes from backing yourself,

unrelentingly being like, do you know what?

I'm good at this.

I know this, I want this.

And then people say, you've got to fake it till you make it.

And you have to.

And sometimes you don't feel confident, you've got no choice.

And I think that's really important.

And actually For me, there's a great sort of analogy that when

you see a final piece of artwork, you only ever see the

finished artwork, you never see all the drawings that got in the

bin, all the attempts, all the mistakes.

You just see the piece of artwork and that doesn't tell

you the whole story.

And I think for me, confidence is about picking yourself up the

whole time, going again, always being, Eager to be better, but

also backing yourself and going, look, I can do this.

I want this.

and that's what I, that's what I do now.

Arthur: that's similar to what Wil Green had said about the

feedback,

James: Yeah.

Feedback's really important.

but feedback from the right people, not the wrong people.

You don't ask for feedback on social media because they don't

know you.

Tom Holland, Spider-Man says a very good quote, if you've got a

problem with me.

Text me.

If you haven't got my number, then you don't know me well

enough to have a problem with me.

if I Do a DJ set now and people on social media criticise me.

That doesn't matter that's irrelevant.

If I send it to a DJ that I really respect and he reviews it

and says, listen, I think your song choice wasn't quite right.

Your beat matching wasn't quite right.

That's important.

Then you take that on board.

Now does it make you a bad person or bad dj?

No.

Is your confident knocked?

A little bit, yeah.

But by practicing and backing it up and listening to people,

that's how you gain confidence and also believing that you

should be able to do it.

believing that you should be there.

I think.

We, live in a world now where, we tell kids that they can be

anything they want to be.

And the truth is, you can't be anything you want to be.

'cause you might not have the talent.

But if it's, if you can say that it's possible to do something.

if I said to you now I want to win a tour de France, that's

impossible.

Adidas says Impossible's nothing.

That's rubbish.

I can't win a tour De France.

Could I be a world class dj?

Yes.

Could I, be a bestselling author?

Yes.

Could I go and, could I be a better father?

Yes, the, these things are all possible.

Now, how do you, how you get there is the hard part and how

you do it is the hard part.

and sometimes it's not clear how you do it, but if you go every

day.

Go, What is in my control and in my control are four things.

I think how you treat your body, how you treat your mind, how you

treat other people, how hard you work, and also not worrying

about things that you don't control like other people.

So if other people want to be difficult, high maintenance,

critical, let them, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't, that's irrelevant.

You just go back to going like, how am I as a player?

How's my fitness?

How's my health?

How's my sleep?

How's my training?

How's my hydration?

How's my physical preparation?

There's five things that I've given you just now that you can

improve on in terms of your mind.

Am I studying the game?

Am I, visualising?

Am I looking after my mental health?

That's taking care of your mind?

How I treat people?

How am I treating teammates?

Am I being a good team man?

Am I putting good foot, good f am I being really, open?

And then the other one I control is how hard I work.

Am I getting up in the morning?

Am I working hard?

And then if you just work on those just today, and you are

better today than you were yesterday, you are already on

the path forward.

And that's as simple and as complicated as life ever needs

to be.

You can't make people pick you.

You can't make people like you, you can't make people buy stuff

off you.

You can try, you can only keep turning up.

And that's basically the secret to, most things in life.

Arthur: Wow.

Thank you.

That's amazing advice.

Thank you so much.

James: That's all right.

Arthur: How did you go from a rugby player to a podcast

presenter?

James: so I was always a performer, and actually, my

thing around rugby was my pathway to for success.

It wasn't because I loved, rugby.

It was, I found a sport that I was good at that gave me instant

gratification, really like in the real world.

If you're not a sports person, how do you know if you're being

successful?

Is it the car?

Is it the house?

Is it your bank balance?

it's very long term in sport, what I became attracted to was

if I work hard, I get picked.

If I play well, I get picked again.

And if I got things to work on, I go again.

And that instant sort of feedback was really important.

But what I was really keen about was the performance element was

big crowds, big stages, big moments.

Because I'm a bit of a show off, I like performing.

And so the progression into be a podcaster and then into a DJ is

it's all centered around performing.

It's telling stories, it's grandstanding, it's that, vibe.

And so actually, it was a natural progression.

I'd always planned for life outside of rugby.

I was, unfortunately there when Matt Hampson broke his neck, and

he never, never walked again.

I was in that Scrummaging session and that taught you.

How fragile life was.

You have this big plan, this big idea of where you want to get to

in life, but some, but life will throw stuff at you like it that

will affect you.

And I was like, look, I'm, able to do what I want to do for a

period of time, but I can't take it for granted.

So what's next?

What can I plan to do?

And I'd basically always done stuff around playing in front of

a crowd, if I could still run, I can't run anymore.

I've got bad arthritis in my ankle.

I've got two big screws that I had put in eight weeks ago in my

ankle.

I even if I could play, I would not go and play rugby in front

of one man and his dog.

'cause I don't care if you said to me I could get to play at the

Twickenham again in front of 80,000, I'd want to play.

if you're going to do a podcast and no one's listening, I

wouldn't do it.

If you know you've created a podcast where you've got big

audiences, people are engaged, people are listening, and it's a

chance to perform, I do that.

DJing to an empty room is fun.

But I don't love it enough to do it.

What I love is playing in front of a crowd that are going to

interact.

So for me, the transition stuff are always centered around

performing.

everything I do is about performing.

There isn't.

There isn't anything that is boring or not performing.

It's all about showing off and having fun and performing to a

crowd.

Arthur: Speaking of dj, how many times do you practice a week?

James: So I practice probably once or twice a week.

I do guest mixes.

I make music a lot.

I play ideas.

I go and dj, it's actually, it goes in waves, like this week's

very busy.

But I've got to do a couple of guest mixes at the end of the

week.

So I'm going to go into, I've got studio in the garden, I've

got my DJ set up, so I'll go and play and it's amazing, If I was

on the road all the time, which is where I want to be, I want to

DJ five nights a week.

I want to go out there, I want to perform.

You get better and better Same thing with music.

if I set myself an every night, an hour to go and make some

music or play with stuff, I get better and better.

So it's one of those things where I, I realltake it

seriouslyus and I apply the same lessons.

That I learned in rugby, into DJing, making music.

I basically, I analyse what I'm doing.

I look for feedback.

I work hard.

I try to upskill myself.

I do courses.

I work with other people.

I deal with like failures.

I analyse and I go again and again, And it's the same thing I

took as a sportsman into all these other things.

Arthur: And what do you enjoy most about doing your podcast?

James: I think the podcasting thing for me is it's doesn't

feel like work.

It's two other friends that have become some best mates.

We tell stories, we share our opinion.

We are unapologetically ourselves.

We talk about what really attracts me about the podcast is

what we're doing now, which is basically talking about people.

the subject is rugby.

You are a rugby fan, you interview rugby people, but

really it's.

People, it's what makes them tick.

It's how they think.

It's their life experiences.

if it was just a really boring dissection of the game, I

probably wouldn't enjoy doing it.

but our podcast isn't about that.

It's about what makes people tick, why they're successful,

what they've learned, what failures they've had, what

mistakes they've made.

And that's what I really re attracts me doing it with two

friends, sharing opinions, disagreeing, but also shedding a

light on professional sport, which isn't.

Directed from the media, which is about the actual truth.

How do players feel?

How do fans.

because a lot of fans think, for example, they care more about

the sport they watch than the players playing it.

And just because you don't cry when you come off a field and

all the fans are in tears, they see that as a sign of not

caring.

And I wanted to go on this podcast and, the good, bad rugby

and actually tell the truth.

And this is what we think.

This is what happened.

This is the truth, this is the vibe.

This is what we think.

This is what sportsmen think.

And I think that's why it's so successful is because we have an

opinion and we share it.

Arthur: Yeah, I really like watching your podcast,

especially the one with the world's strongest man.

James: Yeah, Eddie Hall was good.

I'm not sure, all the Swearing's very good on it sometimes, but

Eddie Hall were like just talking to Eddie Hall, who knew

he'd burst into tears, asking about his early life, and things

and the journeys he's had.

that's what I mean.

Every time you go in there, you go in there with a list of

questions, but then you still like, like what you're doing to

me is he, you listen to the answers, you go actually, what

did you mean by that?

And I said to him, what you, how big a struggle was it being a

kid?

and how big a problem were the drugs and alcohol and, were you

disappointed and what is your mental health like?

And it went on and he just suddenly opened up and starts

crying.

You're like, wow, this is the world's strongest man showing

that he's vulnerable, showing that it's okay to cry.

Showing people that you have problems and sports people

often, fans often think sports people or people in positions of

celebrity inverted commas, don't have problems, but actually

everybody does.

And it doesn't matter how successful you are, how much

money you've got, we're all the same people.

We, all wake up in the morning, we all go to the loo.

We all feel sad, we all feel happy.

And that's really important to remember.

Just'cause they're on TV or just because they're the world's

strongest man doesn't mean they're the world's strongest

person mentally.

And that was a really nice lesson.

Arthur: Yeah, we all human beings.

James: We are all human beings, and the thing, that they teach

your generation now is that if you are surprised or you're

offended or you're upset, or you watch something on TV that you

don't like, If you wake up some days going, I feel a bit sad, I

don't want to do this podcast under the weather, whatever...

good'cause you're meant to.

So that's when you find resilience by going, I'm going

to do the podcast anyway and I'm going to get up and train

anyway, or I'm going to play, or, when you are super happy,

when you feel super happy and super motivated.

You can run for hours when you wake up in the morning and it's

cold and it's wet and you don't want to get out of bed and you

don't want to go to school.

The ones that are successful go, I'm going to do it anyway.

I'm going to turn up and do it anyway.

'cause that's what the secret to it is.

But we all feel sad, happy, shocked and shamed.

And, but we, but you can't, we can't protect people against

feeling like that.

And I think a lot of people at the moment are trying to say,

oh, if you don't like it, we'll all stop everything.

Or, we've got to make sure that everything we do and say make

sure that nobody's offended.

It's no, that's not you.

If, we do this podcast.

And people go, I don't like James Haskell.

Good.

At least they've got an opinion.

If they go, I like James Haskell.

Good, then great.

But then, so I, think you've all without, as long as you go

through life without deliberately saying stupid stuff

to get a reaction.

But if I have an opinion, but something and you disagree with

it, good.

If you, say something I don't like, good, that's important.

But if we say everything, so you know, that's all like

non-offensive, then go away.

That's not what life's about.

Arthur: That's very helpful.

And final question, who's been your favourite guest on your

podcast?

James: Do you know what?

Wow, we've had some wild ones.

interviewing the royal family was insane.

going to Windsor Castle, letting me into Windsor Castle was

massive.

getting, absolutely bounced into the ground by the Princess

Royal.

Princess Anne was like amazing.

She absolutely, pulled the pants down, metaphorically.

Which was, it was funny.

Eddie Jones brilliant at first episode of Good the Bad and the

Rugby.

Jamie Dornan, finding out that he's an absolute fanny and that

he cries every time Ireland lose, and he's one of the best

looking men in the world, and he's an absolute hero.

But finding that out, I thought Eddie Hall, breaking down and

talking about trials and talking about how he needs to perform

and do training and be competitive and have a routine.

Otherwise, he, gets dark thoughts, these guys really

fascinate me.

So the beauty of our podcast is not every single one is the

same.

One minute's laughing.

Next, sad, next minute, serious.

Next minute's a focus on the game, and you never know what

you are going to do.

Like I had on Mike Brown.

Yesterday.

And we talked about England and he was really refreshing.

Gave a different perspective.

And you're like, God, I love doing this.

I love talking to people and hearing stuff.

And he challenged me on a couple of things about Ireland and I

was like, yeah, I appreciate the challenge.

I actually, maybe you're right.

Maybe I'm thinking that Ireland are better than they are because

they've always been good.

Maybe at the moment they're not good, but let's see how they get

on against Italy.

So that kind of, that kind of stuff is really important.

So there isn't one outstanding favourite.

They've just had loads of stuff and every week.

It's very different.

Even the Weasley twins from Harry Potter, that I won

Celebrity Mastermind and my specialist subject was Harry

Potter.

I'm a Harry Potter nerd.

I got on the piss with them in Japan.

Had a few beers with them.

You're on, the piss with, Fred and George Weasley.

what more do you want?

they didn't do any magic though, which is disappointing.

Arthur: I just want to say thanks so much, James.

I really appreciate taking the time to my podcast.

Thank you so much.

James: Anytime.

And listen, it's great to see you doing podcasts.

It's great to see you putting stuff out there and interviewing

people.

Like I said, it's one of those things where.

I think it's really exciting finding out what people tick and

your hooks rugby, talking to rugby legends, and I'm not sure

I'm a rugby legend, but you've had some proper legends on here.

But I think it's really nice to go and find out about people and

what makes them tick.

because I interviewed Sam Vesty the other day.

He had a kid when he was 21.

when I was 21 I was playing for England and I was a complete

Muppet.

But imagine looking after a kid and that stuff's really.

Interesting because if you have a child, you have no choice but

to be really dedicated and focused.

I had a kid later on in life and I had, I got to be a, I got to

be a big kid for years, but then now I've got to be responsible,

but I'm 40, And so I think it's a really cool thing.

I wish you the best of luck with it.

I hope you actually keeps smashing it and, keep talking to

people, keep reaching out or keep putting your, keep setting

your mum on people.

That's the best.

That's the best way.

your mum's a great spokesperson to get people in.

So look, Mate, I really appreciate you having me on.

I love talking to you.

You're a great interviewer.

So yeah, go and smash it

Arthur: Thanks so much, James.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

James: anytime, brother.

Anytime.

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