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Tommy Freeman: Lions, Saints and Never Giving Up

In this episode of Rugby Legends, Arthur Dickins is joined by Tommy Freeman, one of the most exciting backs in world rugby. Fresh from a remarkable rise that has taken him from academy rejection to the very pinnacle of the game, Tommy shares the lessons, setbacks and experiences that shaped his journey.

Tommy looks back on his early sporting life, from football and hockey to discovering rugby and eventually falling in love with the game. He opens up about being a late developer, struggling physically against bigger players, and the moments where frustration nearly led him to walk away from rugby altogether. His story is a powerful reminder that development is rarely linear and that patience can be one of the most valuable qualities a young athlete possesses.

The conversation explores Tommy's release from the Leicester Tigers academy, the move to Moulton College, and the opportunity that eventually opened the door at Northampton Saints. From fly-half to full-back and eventually the wing, Tommy explains how versatility became one of his biggest strengths and why modern rugby demands far more from wingers than simply finishing tries.

Tommy also reflects on life as a British & Irish Lion, playing in front of more than 100,000 fans at the Melbourne Cricket Ground, learning from some of the world's best players, and experiencing the unique culture that makes Lions tours so special. Alongside stories from the top level of the game, he shares practical advice on confidence, handling mistakes, preparation, resilience, and what it really takes to maximise your potential as a rugby player.

Whether you're a young player chasing your dream, a coach working with developing athletes, or simply a rugby fan, Tommy's story offers valuable lessons about perseverance, mindset, and making the most of every opportunity.

In this episode:

  •  Why rugby beat football and hockey 
  •  Growing up as a late developer 
  •  The academy rejection that changed everything 
  •  How Northampton Saints discovered him 
  •  Finding his best position on the wing 
  •  Advice for young wingers 
  •  Lessons from Lions teammates 
  •  Match-day routines and preparation 
  •  Learning from mistakes under pressure 
  •  What makes the British & Irish Lions special

1 Arthur: hi everyone.

I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends podcast.

In each episode, I interview an amazing rugby player or coach to

get their advice.

In each episode, interview an amazing rugby player or coach to

get their insight and advice for young rugby players just like

me, who are keen to learn and get better.

In this episode, I'm speaking with Tommy Freeman, the

Northampton Saints, England, and Lions winger.

Tommy is very big and very quick.

He's made over a century of appearances for Northampton

Saints and won the Premiership title in 2024.

In the 2025 6 Nations, he became the first Englishman to score in

every single round of the tournament, a remarkable feat,

and that form earned him his starting place on the British

and Irish Lions Tour of Australia last year.

I hope you find Tommy's knowledge and wisdom as helpful

as I did, enjoy Firstly, Tommy, I just want to say thanks so

much for taking the time to be on podcast.

I really appreciate it.

Tommy: No worries at all.

Thanks for having me, Arthur.

Arthur: So firstly, Tommy, what other sports did you play

growing up and at what age did you give them up for rugby?

Tommy: yeah, so I grew up playing football as a youngster.

I'm sure most people do, don't they?

and then when I went to Culford school, that was when football,

they didn't do football, so we had hockey, cricket, rugby.

so yeah, it was, that was the first time I was introduced to

all those sports.

but I, yeah, I fell in love with rugby, as soon as I played it.

but also loved hockey, and yeah, played pretty well at hockey as

well.

So it got to about the age of 14 where they were like, you need

to decide where you want to go.

Do you want to go and play hockey or do you wanna play

rugby?

yeah, mum and dad probably had a bit of a fair say in that one as

well.

they would definitely prefer to watch rugby than hockey.

yeah, that, that kind of made my mind up a little bit.

But no, it was rugby all the time, I think.

yeah, so it was about 14, 15 when the academy started coming

into play is, when you forced for a decision.

So yeah, rugby was the no-brainer.

Arthur: What position did you play in hockey?

Tommy: In hockey, I was right wing or striker.

Yeah.

Always scoring goals or trying to at least, yeah, it was

boring.

Other than that, defending wasn't really that, fun in

hockey, is it?

It's all about scoring goals.

And similar in rugby, if I'm honest.

You'd rather do that bit than, the defending bit.

Arthur: Yeah, and hockey as well, I like to play striker as

well.

Tommy: Oh, nice.

So you're the same then.

Love scoring goals.

Arthur: Yeah, I love getting those tap ins,

Tommy: Exactly.

Arthur: Did you always play wing when you were younger at

Culford?

Tommy: No, absolutely not.

And I never thought I'd end up here either.

I started at fly half, which I'm sure is the dream for most kids.

yeah, I played fly half, till about U16s then left Culford,

went to Moulton College, then got pushed out into the centres

'cause there was a pretty good 10 we had.

then went, got pushed back to full back, and then eventually

yeah, pushed out onto the wing.

so yeah, I dunno if that's a compliment or not going back out

the wing, having all the skills at 10 and full back and centre

and stuff, and then getting pushed onto the wing.

But, no, it is turned out all right.

If I'm honest.

Arthur: Out of those positions, like which one was your

favourite to play?

Tommy: as a kid I loved 10.

obviously I think, yeah, trying to pull the strings and make

others look good was, what I tried to do as a youngster.

but I think as you grow up a little bit and, I, oh, it's

tough now.

Even so, like, I'm, playing around with Centre as well and

being on the wing, you've got licences to do different stuff

on the Wing.

I think in today's game, I think it's not just about staying on

your wing and being the quickest player.

I think you've, got a licence to get off it and go and create

something.

So yeah, the wing's a lot of fun.

a bit of free roaming, centres, there's obviously loads of cool

stuff you can do in there, and you get a few more touches, but,

yeah, growing up I definitely, I love playing ten.

I have a joke with Richard Wigglesworth and say, one day

I'll get back there.

He said home game at Chinnor maybe, but that'll be as far as

it goes.

Arthur: Yeah, I like to play Fly half as well.

Tommy: Oh, nice.

Are you still playing there now?

Arthur: Yeah, no, still playing there for club and school, which

is quite nice.

Tommy: If someone moves you, say No.

Arthur: I'll make sure.

Tommy: Nice.

Arthur: What made you choose rugby over these other sports?

Tommy: it's a good question.

For me, it was never really the physical aspects of the game

that I enjoyed.

I was obviously very small growing up.

I had two big brothers who were, had a growth spurt pretty early.

They're both 6'1, 6'4, so they had the growth spurt pretty

early, and I was still pretty small, so the physical side of

the game didn't appeal to me, but I just think it was the

evasive game.

I think obviously it's a good group of lads, rugby, you're

pretty close all the time.

and I just think that com camaraderie and stuff as a team

and as a team game, I think, yeah, you're obviously putting

your bodies on the line for each other at the end of the day.

And I know it hurts, but that feeling afterwards, there's, no

better feeling when you've had a good win and you've worked hard

for it.

Arthur: A hundred percent and get in the bath.

Tommy: Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's crucial.

Arthur: what age were you like when you turned your height now?

What age were you?

Tommy: So I was in my second year of sixth form, so I was

probably about 5'7 or 5'8 in my lower sixth, so that's year 12.

And then that summer to going into year 13 was when I just

shot up.

I was a bit lanky, I was probably about 83kg 6'2 or a

little bit shorter.

But yeah, it was that year, so it was bound to happen.

But yeah, it was a little bit late that then I had hoped I'd

have probably liked to have been a bit more physical and

challenged the bigger boys at school.

But, no, eventually it took it's turn.

Arthur: How do you like deal with being such like a late

developer?

did you have any moments you wanted to give up?

Tommy: Oh God, yeah.

a hundred percent.

I remember there was late nights going down to Leicester Tigers

training.

Obviously being smaller, I felt like I had the attributes from a

skillset point of view, and bringing others into the game.

But yeah, as soon as you, I either broke the line or,

someone was running directly at me, it was, yeah, I was getting

caught up with pretty quickly or, getting put on my back

really.

yeah, there was a lot of difficult conversations.

I had fell out of love with the game, but mum was pretty

persistent to keep me turning up every week, and she just knew

the growth spurt was gonna come.

And obviously having two older brothers who were, towering

above me, they knew it was gonna happen at some point.

yeah, thank, thanks to them.

I stuck with it.

Arthur: Yeah, and I'm the smallest side of the game, but

my brother's about 5'8, so hopefully.

Tommy: Yeah, it's time.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I think, you probably see that a little bit, across the board in,

premiership and universities and stuff.

lads getting picked up from unis a little bit later, when

they've, obviously had a bit more development and, things

like that.

So yeah, for any encouragement, yeah, just don't give up.

Stick, stick with it if that's what you wanna do, and, your

time will come.

Arthur: You were released by Leicester Tigers as a

16-year-old.

What did that rejection teach you?

Tommy: initially not a lot.

I, you'd think I'd be head in hands upset, really upset about

it all.

But it was quite a big cut.

There was like four different regions.

You had Staffordshire, Lincolnshire, there obviously

Norfolk and then Leicestershire.

So there was a lot of lads and I'm sure there was a lot of

Tommy's getting cut, to be honest.

yeah, I didn't really take it to heart.

all I cared about was enjoying the sport and your time will

come.

I think being involved in the academy setup obviously feels

professional and, it's pretty special feeling like being a

part of a group that's obviously a little bit better than your

schoolmates and things like that.

So yeah, it was probably hard to take to go back into school and

be like, oh, I'm with you guys now, I'm back with you boys.

yeah, initially maybe that bit hurt, but, I think for me it was

all about playing sport.

And at 16 I was still diving into other sports.

I still played a bit of hockey.

I still messed around and played football with my mates.

So yeah, it was, pretty, pretty easy to get over.

And, yeah, I just cracked on and I never really thought I'd make

it, if I'm honest.

I think there's probably times at school where I was never ca I

wasn't really captain.

there was always someone better than me, so it was always like

trying to prove myself and I always felt like that at school,

that I had to prove myself to everyone and I felt like I did

that.

and then, yeah, and then in at Moulton it took a turn.

Arthur: Yeah.

If anything, I've heard some coaches say it's good to have

competition'cause it rises the level a lot.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

yeah, it's massive competition and you still have it in the

premiership here and training at Saints.

you're always competing and if you're not competing, you're not

getting better.

if you're comfortable set up there, then you're not

challenging yourself.

no, I think having competition at school and making everything

a competition I think is good.

I think if you've got that nature about you, I think

winning just makes it feel a little bit nicer and sweeter, I

think.

Arthur: What are the coaching lessons that have stuck with

you?

Tommy: I think like I've touched on and never give up mentality,

has been massive for me.

Obviously not being the biggest, not being the strongest, the

fastest, but just controlling what you can control.

really, and I would also say enjoying it.

I know it's said a lot and, chucked around a lot, but

honestly, if you don't enjoy it, what's the point?

obviously there's gonna be days where it's hard and it gets

tough and you're out of breath and things like that, but you

gotta love being in a bit of pain and'cause when you come out

of it the other side, it's, it is a lot better.

But, no, I think I've been lucky to have a lot of good coaches,

that have really invested in me as a person, and as a player.

And I think if you, know the player as a person and you know

them on, off the pitch, I think only helps when you're on it.

Arthur: Thank you.

Tommy: No worries.

Arthur: Which players inspired you growing up and what was

inspiring about them?

Tommy: I was a massive Harlequins fan growing up.

I absolutely loved Harlequins, so Nick Evans, Danny Care, Mike

Brown, they were my three favourite players at school.

I was pretty, obviously England, was another watching them and

stuff, but I would, I was, I harlequins obsessed.

So yeah, those three lads really who I looked up to.

I think Danny Care, he's a bit of a legend for England as well.

always kept the game fast and was a little bit out there,

which I quite liked.

Nick Evans was obviously fly half, yeah, watching him play

was how I wanted to play.

and then Mike Brown was also just a good running rugby player

and had a good brain.

So yeah, those three kind of, I looked up to as a kid and, loved

it.

Arthur: So not Jason Robinson.

Tommy: No, I, would, to be honest, by that point, I

probably was a bit late to getting into rugby.

I was into some, some, younger guys, I would say at that point.

But obviously Jason Robinson is a very good player and very

quick and, obviously being a winger, I probably didn't have

any interest in what he was about, but no, he, did well and

he is very good as well.

Arthur: After joining Northampton Saints as an

18-year-old, how did you give yourself the best chance of

getting a pro contract?

Tommy: Oh yeah, good question.

so obviously being released from Leicester, I had a decision to

stay at Culford, or make a move.

Culford, rugby wise probably wasn't, gonna develop me.

I probably wasn't gonna get much out of it and get myself in a

shop window.

So there was a, teacher there called Charlie Sadler who played

in the academy at Saints and got a nasty shoulder injury.

So he ended up coaching me at Culford for a bit and he said,

go to Moulton College.

That's where he went.

and it's linked with Northampton.

So yeah, I took the leap and obviously Culford probably

didn't offer something educationally for me, and from a

rugby point of view, I probably wasn't gonna get anywhere.

So yeah, I tried to put myself in the shop window, really at

Moulton, in my first year, they weren't interested, didn't have

a look in, went to no academy sessions.

Then John Clark, who used to play for Saints, was coaching me

in my second year at Moulton and he said, have you not had a look

in?

And I said, no, not yet.

And he said, I'll come down to a training session and we'll get

you in.

And then I went down, played the pre-season game, played quite

well, then started for the rest of the under eighteens league

really.

And then I was thinking, there's no way I'm getting a contract

here.

They've got lads here, they've had in the system from about 13.

They've probably made their mind up already.

it's the last year.

So yeah, I just went into every game thinking it's not gonna

happen.

Go have fun, show what you can do.

I had Australia lined up, wanted to go and travel to Australia

and play a bit of rugby down there.

But yeah, that got put on hold when I got brought into the

office and, they offered me one.

Arthur: Do you ever think of r redoing the Australia trip?

Tommy: I had a thought during maybe the Academy years when I

wasn't playing too much in Northampton, but after it took

off, yeah, probably not, but I'd fortunately I've been to

Australia with England and the Lions now, it's, yeah, I'd,

rather take that way than the other way.

Arthur: So it must always be quite nice when you're playing

Leicester tigers and just so cool.

Winning.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a good feeling.

I think obviously the Derby and Northampton's rivalry through

the history and the years of playing that game, yeah, it's

always special.

It is an always special game when we win that game.

And, yeah, a little bit sweeter for me, especially.

Arthur: When did you know that winger was your position?

Was this your decision or did it come from a coach?

Tommy: No, came from a coach, so I was, I had Furbs had been

unlucky with a few injuries.

I came off the bench against Gloucester, and went quite well.

And then I played at full back, for most of the Academy stuff.

those A league games and then this game, and then had the

Premiership and a good few games that full back.

And then when Furbs became fit again, he slotted straight into

full back and they thought, oh, Tommy, Boydy, Chris Boyd at the

time has said, oh, do you wanna try giving the Wing a go?

I think back three for me was always an option.

I would always train in on the wing, and full back, so it

wasn't something that shocked me when, to play in it.

Obviously playing it, it's a little bit different and you

gotta get used to that and it for the premiership especially.

But, no, it was Boydy's idea to get us all on the pitch and see

how we went and yeah.

And then it went quite well.

Arthur: Yeah, Freddie Steward said, he said for the full back

that you have to contact the wingers a lot, so you and Furbs

must have had really good, like good friends.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

and we're gonna miss him'cause he is obviously leaving at the

end of the year.

so it's pretty sad for us.

And yeah, I always, I played pretty good with Furbs.

You've gotta have a pretty good connection with those wingers

like Freddie said.

And, yeah, the better you can connect as a back three, it

makes everything a bit seamless and you get some pretty good

rewards off the back of it.

If you're all in sync, I'd say.

Arthur: Yeah, a hundred percent, but it'll be quite nice playing

against them next year, won't it?

Tommy: oh.

No, it'll be weird.

It'll be weird.

he might make, look, he might make some of us look a bit

silly, but, let's hope I can remember some of his traits and

stuff to, to not let that happen.

Arthur: to any young and aspiring wingers out there,

what's one piece of advice you would give them?

Tommy: I think for me, obviously I'd like to, I've got a pretty,

wide kind of skillset.

I'd say it's a winger.

When you think of a winger, you think he's the quickest on the

pitch.

He's gonna stay on his wing and, yeah, just be that pace guy

finish tries it.

I think wing, especially at the top level is a lot more than

that.

I think if you can obviously bring that aerial game to your

locker and get off your wing as much as you can, I think the

more touches you get as a winger, I think the better for

the team.

technically rugby is done on a bit of work, right when you're

in attack.

If you're a winger that can go and create an extra number

elsewhere, I think that will only bode well for the team.

yeah, I know you're a winger, but I'd say get off your wing as

much as possible and, get your hands on the ball.

Arthur: Then I see in academies when I watch like the under

eighteens, for example, some of their centres, for example, they

get pushed out to the wing because they've got really good

skillset and they're quick.

Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

I think the more versatility you've got, can only help you

and yeah, I think if you've got centres playing as wingers and

wingers playing as centres, then yeah, it all bodes pretty well.

Arthur: a bit like you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Yeah.

Still lots to work on though.

We're, still, working hard and, obviously centres pretty new, so

there's, a lot of good centres out there that I'm learning off

and hopefully can, compete there.

Arthur: Who are you learning off?

Tommy: In the Lions tour, obviously Gary Ringrose is, a

legend, Sione Tuipulotu, Hugh Jones, all these guys.

it was awesome to play around with them and obviously I was on

the wing for the lions for the majority.

but I definitely tried to pick up as much as I could in, in

general phase play and in general play as, a centre as

well.

but obviously we've got some pretty good centres at the club

at Northampton as well, so yeah, there's still lots of learning.

It's still pretty fresh, but, no, I'm loving it.

Arthur: What do you enjoy most about playing wing?

Tommy: other than scoring tries and celebrating, trying to

celebrate, but Pollock interrupting you rudely.

I would say, I think, like I just mentioned, I think having

that free roaming ability to get off your wing and go and find

Fin or, the boys' shoulders and create that numerical advantage,

I think it, it is really fun.

you get yourself in the backfield as well and you've got

a lot of running space.

that's always fun.

And that's the best part of the game really, isn't it?

It's getting your hands on the ball and taking people on.

and obviously you've got players inside you that, that put you in

pretty good space to go and finish some nice tries as well.

Arthur: Speaking of celebrations, which one was your

favourite to do?

Tommy: Oh, I think the lawnmower went down quite well, I think.

I'm not sure.

that's always good fun.

I think Pollock's got a few in the locker that he's probably

keeping ready to go.

we always have a little chat in the gym and have a laugh about

what we're gonna do next and things like that.

yeah, there's celebrations are all the kind of things that come

off the back of it, but you don't wanna celebrate too early.

You need to get the ball down and make sure you're winning the

game before you start thinking about that stuff.

Arthur: Yeah, a hundred percent, I love the wheelbarrow, and I

remember Fin yesterday, I was like.

Tommy: Yeah, he did that one.

He loves that one.

That's his, I think that's his trademark now.

I think he's gonna have to keep doing that.

but yeah, it'll be, good to see that we don't see Fin go over

too many times.

it's always nice to see something come out of him.

He's not one for celebrations.

When you celebrate and you chuck the ball in for the crowd, he

hates it.

'cause he is gotta get the ball back and take the kick.

So he is just trying to find the ball and, do all that stuff.

no, he's, he's pretty strict with them.

Arthur: How would you prepare for a big game, and when does

this process start?

Tommy: I'm probably not like others.

in preparing for a game, I think from a nutritional point of

view, it's very important.

and that starts 48 hours before I think you want to be carb

loading, making sure you're hydrated, doing all those

things.

yeah, so you have a pretty big feed two days before, game

before the night before as well.

You want to get, some good food in for, so you've got enough

energy for the game.

But from a mental point of view, the more relaxed I am, I think

the better.

if I'm a little bit like hotheaded and aggressive and

riled up like, some boys are, I don't think that benefits me.

I like to have a little dance in the changing room before, get

the tendons warm, have a laugh with the lads.

Yeah.

A lot of dancing, to be honest, goes on before games.

so yeah, the, I like to go on candy crush on my phone.

yeah, I just try and do anything but not think about the game,

until I'm out on the warmup.

and then you're really into it and, you're in the flow of

rugby.

And, I think the easiest thing for me, and I'd recommend it to

anyone is, when you go into a game, there's that, obviously

you've got the nerves.

There's, it's, there's a no brainer, but as soon as you get

your hands on the ball, those nerves go to bed.

So the earlier you can do that, I think the better.

but yeah, before the game, I'm pretty, pretty chilled.

Arthur: What are the kind of go-to dance moves?

Tommy: Oh God, I can't expose that.

it's a load of rubbish, if I'm honest.

a lot of two stepping, yeah, a mixture of an awful lot.

I couldn't even name the dances to be honest, but, yeah,

hopefully, no, no, one's recording and we're not going

viral on TikTok again.

yeah, there's a, few out there.

Arthur: I remember Henry Slade, he got one of yours on video.

Tommy: He did, he was very sneaky.

to be fair, we were probably keeping him awake.

So he, had, every right to do that I'd, say.

Arthur: And when you say you help yourself relax, would you

listen to any music or how would you do that?

Tommy: Yeah, so like coming into the club, obviously in the car,

listening to music on the headphones and stuff like that.

I would do a little bit, but I quite like just talking to the

lads, having conversations, playing cards on the way up to

games on the bus and things like that on the way back as well.

Yeah.

So I like to just keep my mind busy away from the game until

it's, it is time to go.

as soon as you start thinking about the game, you could

probably put a lot of scenarios in your head and overthink some

stuff and think, oh, I'm gonna do this or try this.

And then your mind can go on a big old adventure and you get

sweaty hands and you start thinking about stuff like that.

So yeah, I try and avoid that kind of switch off away from

rugby in until its go time really.

Arthur: I wonder what's going through Henry's mind.

Maybe a chip and chase.

Tommy: yeah, there'll be something, it'll be a

celebration or, nothing, to be honest, is you might not be

thinking about absolute anything.

Arthur: If you've made a mistake in a game, how do you not let it

affect you as the match goes on?

Tommy: it's a good question.

it's a skill.

It's a definite skill to, to have and to learn.

for me it's, you've, I think you're always gonna have

mistakes in rugby.

it's all about not backing them up.

if you're getting all tight and uptight about dropping the ball

because you've dropped the one before, I think that you're

obviously gonna overthink that and probably drop the ball.

so I think it's just making sure whatever you do next, you nail

it.

and focusing on that next job and not thinking about the thing

you've just done.

Obviously, mistakes are made and mistakes are good'cause you're

putting yourself under pressure and you're doing things, but

there's always human error in a game of sport.

So that's how teams can change momentum and things like that.

But you've just gotta focus on what you're doing next and what

the next job is.

If it's a defensive set, if it's running a shoulder ball off a

set play or, whatever it looks like, it's, making sure you just

nail that and then you're back into the swing of things really.

Arthur: As Ted Lasso would say, a memory like of goldfish.

Tommy: Exactly.

Exactly, and I've definitely got one of those.

So helps me.

Arthur: What did touring and playing for the Lions last year

teach you about being a great teammate?

Tommy: Oh, it was a lot.

it was a brilliant tour.

Firstly, when you go on a tour, obviously you've got lads from

different countries coming together to play for one team,

and you've got to make sure you learn everything as quickly as

possible.

Understand people's traits, how they do things, how you do

things.

and I think being in as open and honest, is probably what you

need to do.

Obviously you've got, you'd say, are there older lads who have

been on previous tours?

But at the end of the day, you've all been picked for a

reason and you've gotta come together and make sure you get a

result at the end of the day.

yeah, it was just flying into everything with open arms and

leaning on people, listening to people and giving your advice

and, how you like to receive the ball or, things like that in the

game, make sure the team gets the result they need.

so yeah, learning really fast was, the main thing, but also

being a good lad off the pitch.

you want to obviously make some good friends and we have done

so.

That's really important and making sure you socialise and,

involve yourself as, as best as you can to be that best

teammate.

Arthur: Yeah, when we interviewed Jamie George, he

says, you guys often warm up with cricket.

Tommy: Yeah, we love cricket.

That's the thing I think, I dunno if it's a sport thing.

I think every other sport warms up with a different sport.

yeah, it's either cricket or football.

And obviously playing at the MCG, in Melbourne was, was

pretty special.

and yeah, we had a, quick game of cricket in the pre-game the

day before the game.

So that was really good.

and a lot of fun.

Arthur: What would be your favourite game to warm up with

as a team bonding?

Football?

Cricket?

Tommy: I think cricket goes down well.

Cricket goes down very well, always pretty good.

Gets everyone involved and yeah, it's good fun.

Arthur: Would you say you are a batsman or a bowler?

Tommy: I'd say an all rounder, really a little bit of

everything.

probably batting probably lets me down'cause my ego probably

overtakes it and I just try and whack everyone for six and, make

a fool of myself really in that way.

But no, I'd, say I like to do a little bit of everything jumping

in out of, it all really.

Arthur: Who, in your opinion, we say it was like the best

cricketer.

Tommy: Best cricketer?

George Furbank.

Hands down.

We did a bit of a cinch, yeah, with the Northants cricket

players and Furbs genuinely could have fit in there like a

glove.

he was in his element and he was loving it.

he is a very good player, to be fair.

Colesy?

Alex Coles, I think he's good, or he, thinks he's really good

and tries to look the part, which might be disguising it a

little bit, but, no, he's pretty keen and full nause for cricket.

no, those two are pretty good.

Arthur: Yeah, I remember seeing the Cinch thing.

I remember, I think it was you, I think it was, you kept jumping

up

Tommy: Yeah.

Arthur: Fin was taking the mick.

Tommy: I know.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

I haven't faced a, ball a few balls like that in a long time

since being at school.

And I think, obviously they're probably coming at me a little

bit quicker than it they do at school, and it's not, a soft

ball, is it?

It's not like a tennis ball or an incrediball.

It's it's a pretty hard ball.

Even though you got pads on you, you're still worried.

Arthur: What was the highlight of the tour for you?

Tommy: there were so many, it's hard.

I think obviously winning that game in the MCG was, massive

playing in front of all those people and, 102,000 or whatever

it was, really cool.

there's no feeling quite like it.

but I, to be honest, I enjoyed every moment on that tour.

whether it was off the pitch, on the pitch, just being a part of

a squad and obviously representing the pinnacle of

rugby was a real big highlight.

and I think it was only till I came off the tour really, that,

obviously you're travelling a lot and you're playing rugby a

lot and you're doing things so you're, just invested in it

completely.

but when, you really come back and you take a look back on

what, you've done and what you've achieved, and I would've

never thought I'd have started all three tests.

I thought like being selected in the first place is more than

enough, but to be able to, go and play all three games was,

extra special.

Arthur: Did you have a favourite game?

Tommy: I think the debut, the Brisbane game was really good.

obviously winning that was, pretty special to start with and

having a good start.

But that MCG, I don't think you could compare it.

I think obviously we probably didn't play that as, as best as

we probably could have.

But, I think to go away with a win and win the series at that

place in front of that many people, yeah, you can write it

really.

Arthur: Yeah, it's such a good tour.

I love watching on tv.

So cool saying all the best players play together.

Tommy: Yeah, it is cool.

It is really cool.

and yeah, to be a part of it as well, I bet, is, pretty special.

Arthur: How much time will you get off in the summer and does

your training continue during this downtime?

Tommy: so we'll get about five weeks off in the summer, after

the summer tour.

and what does that look like for me?

so the first three weeks I would say is, probably doing, not a

lot.

the odd gym session, the odd pump, the odd little upper body

just to keep you ticking over.

Maybe like a little Wattbike.

But to be honest, that's completely try and be off feet

as much as possible.

Relax, sit in the sun, go on holiday, play golf, padel

whatever it looks like.

yeah, probably completely switch off.

And then the last two weeks I'll probably start introducing a bit

more of a plan.

you get sent a few bits from the club to, to keep you going.

So that looks like gym, a few running sessions, acceleration

sessions.

and yeah, I think it's just a build, build it back up.

So when you come in on that first day pre-season, your legs

aren't fully full of doms and you're in a lot of pain after

that first day and you're struggling and your lungs are

burning.

So I think they try and blow the cobwebs out a little bit early.

And then by the time you come in, you can pick up a rugby ball

and focus more on the rugby stuff rather than the fitness.

Arthur: And I remember seeing one of those, I remember seeing

Marcus Smith on the Wattbike, he pedalling on his like sweat

dripping down like mad.

Tommy: Oh yeah, it's horrendous.

Some of the stuff you have to do to get, back in shape, it is

tough'cause you can let yourself go a little bit in those five

weeks off.

You can obviously eat a little bit nicer, have a few drinks,

and, as soon as you start doing that, yeah, you, your weight can

fluctuate a little bit.

So you've gotta, as much as you wanna switch off, you've gotta

stay on top of it and make sure you're, looking after the body

or you get punished on pre-season of day one and you

get stuck on a Wattbike for a few weeks and it's not nice.

Arthur: Yeah, luckily for us we have pre-season but not the like

really like big pre-season.

but then Ipswich for example, like one of our friends goes

there, they've got a week of pre-season that's mad.

Tommy: That's not what you want, is it?

You wanna be focusing on the sport rather than the fitness

stuff, don't you?

Arthur: A hundred percent.

Tommy: Yeah.

You wanna be running around having fun with your mates, not

getting blasted on Wattbikes and things like that, and running

sessions.

Arthur: Final question.

Tommy, what's the best thing about being a professional rugby

player?

Tommy: if I'm honest, it doesn't feel like a job.

you obviously talk to your mates, from school and they've

obviously got nine to fives and they're going into their office

and they're doing their jobs and they're coming back and, yeah,

to be honest, it's just feels like a big family really at

Northampton especially.

you go in, you've got your best mates, you are having a laugh

with them every day.

You go in smiling.

and yeah, you're playing sport that you love.

and I know it's difficult, but you are obviously gymming and

your body's in shape pretty much all the time.

Obviously when you've got a different job and you've gotta

go and then gym and do all that stuff after work, it's probably

a lot more difficult and I couldn't imagine doing it.

But luckily it's, part of the job and you, stay in shape and

you perform in front of 15 to 80,000, people.

So yeah, when you're doing that for a living, yeah, you never

want to take it for granted and it's the best job in the world.

but it is a loose job in terms of, I couldn't call it a job, it

just feels like I've come out of school and I'm just carrying on

playing rugby and I'm acting like a school kid with all my

mates.

so yeah, I would say yeah, being a professional rugby player,

there's, no job quite like it.

Arthur: Yeah, it's like a dream of mine to be a professional

rugby player.

Love to be one.

Tommy: Are you full in for rugby then?

There's no, do you wanna be a, you don't wanna be a cricketer

or anything like that?

Full rugby.

Arthur: I'm pretty good at, most sports, but yeah, for me, i just

love everything about it.

Tommy: Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

Stick at it and I'm sure, you'll be flying.

Arthur: Thanks so much Tommy and I can't thank you enough for

being on my podcast.

I really appreciate you taking the time.

Tommy: No worries, Arthur.

Thanks for having me.

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