May 29, 2012

This is Keyes's first interview following his failed escape attempt from court. They discuss the Curriers, the NY victim, negotiating publicity, the boat, Washington jurisdictions, speculation, protecting his family, and more.

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Speaker 1: M the Special Agency pay with the FBI. Today is Tuesday,

May twenty ninth. Time is approximately two forty p m.

Speaker 2: By my watch. Uh, this will be a interview.

Speaker 1: With Israel Keys at the UH anchor FBI office with

me Will B. Tfo, UH, Jeff Bell and also USA

Frank Russo. Pretty freaky, I guess on the twenty nine

you can't see if Yeah, right, An, I'd bet it.

Speaker 3: Is real. How you doing?

Speaker 4: Alright, he's really doing alright?

Speaker 3: Uh, Feladas is uh back easton some meetings. Oh, but uh,

you figured it'd be a good opportunity to put about

data on you know, some of the.

Speaker 4: Elements in Roman.

Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, they're gonna go through their usual advice and

then I'll be first.

Speaker 1: All right, as you know, we're you know, we're importing

things that the UH step on. I just want to

confirm some of the stuff that we talked about at

the jail. We didn't interrupt a meeting with your attorneys

when we arrived there today, did we know?

Speaker 5: Okay?

Speaker 1: And it's your choice to come here as always and

you're here voluntarily, is that correct?

Speaker 5: Yes?

Speaker 1: Okay, and you understand we can't talk about anything that

has to do with Samantha Koonig. If we do, or

if you start talking about that, we'll have to stop

the interview and transport you back to jail.

Speaker 2: You understand that right, Yes, okay.

Speaker 1: I'm gonna run through your Miranda rights here real quick.

I know we've been through these quite a few times.

We're gonna run through them again. Before we ask any questions,

you must understand your rights. You have the right to

remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you.

Speaker 2: Report.

Speaker 1: You have the rights to talk to a lawyer for

advice before we ask you questions. You have the right

to have a lawyer with you during question If you

cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you

before any questioning if you wish. If you decide to

answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the

right to stop answering questions at any time. Do you

understand these rights.

Speaker 2: As I explaining to you. Yes, okay, And with this.

Speaker 1: Advisement in mind, are you willing to wag your rights

and speak to us today?

Speaker 4: Yes?

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 1: As you know, you've got a standby council that's been

appointed in this matter.

Speaker 2: I believe it's Rich Kurtner and Jacqueline Walsh.

Speaker 1: Do you have any desire to have either one of

these either one of them present today?

Speaker 3: No, okay, or any attorney whatsoever? Yeah, nope, okay.

Speaker 1: Are you have you been taking any medications or any

other substances here in the last twenty four hours?

Speaker 5: Nope?

Speaker 4: Okay.

Speaker 1: Are you having any difficulty understanding where you're at what's

going on?

Speaker 3: No?

Speaker 4: Okay?

Speaker 3: All right.

Speaker 2: I think that takes care of things off turning on.

Speaker 3: So I just wanted to update y on where we

were from where we are now with the UH discussion

with the state authorities and Vermont. You know, we talked

about trying to get that agreement.

Speaker 4: With them right, and we do have a letter.

Speaker 5: You know.

Speaker 3: Let's I'll show you the letter and give you some

time to read it.

Speaker 4: UH.

Speaker 3: This David Letters dated May twenty third, the two thousand twelve,

which was last Wednesday. But since this point we've had

some opportunity to discuss the contents of the letter with Vermont,

and they still stand by everything in the letter. And

I can certainly share your UH share with your emails

UH up to that effect. But let me let you

read this thing. Topic. Thus, two.

Speaker 5: Good sure.

Speaker 6: Okay, A pretty later, I think I know that attorneys

really yeah, square.

Speaker 3: Thomas Thomas Donovan m goes BYDJ. I think he does

the name. It looks really familiar. I think he was

on like my land deed or something that was yours

and that really yeah. So anyway, here's my take on

on the letter. Okay, I think it's it really accomplishes

everything that you want and that we want. But as

I told you like last week, this isn't a legal document, right,

It's not a uh you know, it's not like it

creates rights or you can enforce it or anything. But

what this is is a showing of good faith, you know,

by by the Vermont authorities. And right they're basically saying, hey,

we're on board as long as Israel is cooperating with you. You know,

we agree to do those things, which effectively, yeah, you know,

prevents him from running to the press and charging you

under the state law. Because after all, they know.

Speaker 7: This letter's out here, right, so you know, it would

be political suicide if they try to do anything with

your case without at least consulting with us first.

Speaker 3: So this is, you know, in my mind, a home run.

I remember last time. You know, you said something about

showing it to your attorneys. I mean, do you want

them to look.

Speaker 8: At this or do you want to if you could

forward them email them a copy of it, Yeah, that

would be good.

Speaker 4: I guess it seems that the letter is addressed.

Speaker 8: To Kevin Felds, So I mean that makes me feel better.

I was obviously it's addressed to If it's addressed to me,

I can't.

Speaker 4: Really put any stock in it.

Speaker 8: But if it's it's a communication between the two of them,

then that's good. And I also noticed that it's written

by the state attorney versus the fed federal attorney.

Speaker 4: But you said that the Oh wait, now the state.

Speaker 8: Now, so that's that's the prosecuting attorney for the.

Speaker 3: For the county or the disc that's for the state

of the state of Vermont. So she's a federal Now

she's a state prosecutor. Oh okay, so she is under

the state's attorney. Here is Tom T. J. Donovan And

so this is the Chittenden County Prosecutor's office. They handle

all state crimes committed in Chittenden County, which my understandings

where Essex is right next, So you know in terms

of the federal prosecutors. You know, they're within Department of

Justice anyway, so you know we're on the same team,

so to speak as them. It was just a matter

of the state locals. And you know, I've been emailing

back and forth with these people, and I can share

that with you, some of it, but I just want

to make clear, I mean you certainly I can. I

can email that to your standby council, no problem. Are

you okay talking about this letter today without them present?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't mind talking about it.

Speaker 8: I just wanted to have them review it, sure, to

see what get their take on it. I wasn't even

going to ask them for their advice, just to see

what they had to say about it.

Speaker 3: So it's up to you and as the weather or

your advice from it. But you know, like I said,

this isn't like a legally binding contract is going to

contend it is. It's basically, you know, just a document.

Speaker 4: That is just some of the facts on the table.

Speaker 3: It puts the facts and their intentions on the table,

which is really what It was a huge burden that

came off of us last week when we got this obviously,

you know, because We've been telling them you didn't want

publicity and you wanted to kind of keep your full profile.

You know that the incident last Wednesday kind of complicated

things for us because then we you know, they were

basically wondering, well, doesn't want no publicity to what he does.

So that was their perspective on things. So I spent

some time chatting with Mary Morrissey, and she's the prosecutor here,

and you know she copies the Essex Police chief and

the other detective on the case too, in the Courier case.

But basically, you know, their their request and you know

in the email was you know they they certainly may

have other questions about the Courier case, okay, And so

they were wondering, hey, you know, would it be okay

to conference the man. I said, we could talk about

that at a conference call tomorrow.

Speaker 9: As to what kind of questions they had for you,

we could always run those by you.

Speaker 3: But basically, this after the incident last Wednesday, we were

able to kind of go talk to them again and explain.

You know, I listened to your conversation with Jeff and

Steve on Thursday. It seems clear that you're still on

board with this sort of agreement, and I told that

to them and saying, look, this was just a sort

of a crime of opportunity, the escape thing, and serious

about about cooperating. So I've confirmed that to them, and

they confirmed today that you know they are, you know,

they're still on board and if you want to see that,

you're happy to show with you if you want, Uh sure,

I'll go right. So it means out the bottom, which

is my sort of long hand, long winded explanation.

Speaker 5: Of what happened, but it starts at the bottom, right.

Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's the bottom question to her, and she

basically says in there, do you need me to send

another letter, like an updated date on the letter? Uh h,

I said, you know, and I think this email is sufficient.

Speaker 4: All right, Well, sounds like we're making.

Speaker 3: Progress, I think so, I mean, I think this is

a great amount of progress. There we are, and I

think you know it's gonna help us move the ball forward.

Speaker 4: You know.

Speaker 3: Just to sort of reiterate, they basically have said and

agreed that they know it's important to you to sort

of avoid media attention to that you don't want law

enforcement identifying you in connection with the Caurier matter that

they're prepared to do, and they're prepared to continue cooperating,

and in exchange, you're agreeing to be truthful about other

crimes and very bodies. And then here they specifically mention

the name of the victim in New.

Speaker 4: York, right, they want to know about that.

Speaker 3: So as it says, I'm kind of close to them,

I mean, I have a conference call tomorrow with them,

and I'd like to be able to tell them that

you're continuing to cooperate, and you provide that.

Speaker 4: I do want to continue to cooperate. I'm having some

issues as.

Speaker 5: Far as this.

Speaker 8: It's somewhat of an unrealistic expectation on my part, but

I was thinking there might be a way to disclose

all this information to you, you know, to the FBI, and.

Speaker 3: And to.

Speaker 8: Some way ensure somehow ensure that, uh, we could work

out some sort of agreement that you know, I give

you all the.

Speaker 4: Answers on these cases.

Speaker 8: And and uh, you know, families get closure and you

find as many.

Speaker 4: As many of them as.

Speaker 8: Possible, and and in return for that, you know, I,

you know, I don't plan on being around a whole

lot longer, but a really big concern to me is,

you know, my kid's gonna be around on I don't

want her to like take my name into the computer

and have it pop.

Speaker 4: Up like you know the I You know, I already

know stuff's gonna come up.

Speaker 5: I know that, but.

Speaker 8: I just trying to minimize that at this point, I

guess is what I was hoping to do, and apparently

it's going to be really difficult to get that assurance.

So I'm trying to, you know, figure out a way

we can still do that. I think there is you know,

I have a few ideas on how we can.

Speaker 4: Work it out, but.

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Speaker 4: What are your ideas well, I I'm not sure if

they're feasible yet.

Speaker 8: I've been, you know, talking to different people about it

from the.

Speaker 4: From what can happen from a I guess a legal perspective.

Speaker 8: You know, it's one thing to to make assurances, you know,

and you know that's that's great. I mean, if we

get some of the stuff on the table for now,

it helps us deal with the problems for right now.

Speaker 4: But you know, down the.

Speaker 8: Road, that's what I'm concerned about. I'm not going to

be around, you know, which is.

Speaker 4: Fine, but that doesn't.

Speaker 8: Doesn't change the fact that, you know, just because just

because I'm not connected with it right away, you could

happen later. And so I'm trying to I guess, maybe

cover myself that way as much as possible and still

get you what you mean.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you know, sort of the

plan I drafted up. I mean, this is sort of

a good starting point. You're right, I mean, no one

can guarantee you that you're never going to be connected

to some of these things. What we can do to

respond to some of this is create this sort of

snowball effect of the jurisdiction.

Speaker 4: Right, And we started with ver mom.

Speaker 3: I mean, we know even though we gave Vermont the

information up front, we know it's.

Speaker 11: It's possible, right because we just did it, and it

will be even we're in a better position and other

jurisdictions when we go to them and say all right,

look we've got Vermont down, We've got a body in

New York.

Speaker 3: You either get on board or we're not gonna play

with you, right, it creates this snowball effect where the momentum,

no one's gonna try to get in the way of that. So,

I mean, you know, sort of the plan we sort

of lined out for you. It's my hope that that's

something we can use as a model. We use Vermont

as a model, and now it's it's certainly it's working.

We're taking a big step in Vermont saying all right,

you know what you guys. Obviously it's it's keys to

solving at least the Courier's crime, and we're gonna defer

to Alaska and we're gonna give you what you need.

But in return, you know, we're not gonna we're not

gonna say anything. We're gonna keep things under the you know,

we're not gonna link it publicly. We're not gonna make

a splash in the media, which I think is I mean,

as far as law enforcement guarantees or assurances, it's as

good as it gets, right, And I think you know,

we can do this, we can continue on doing this

because I mean, we've been doing a good job and Vermont.

Vermont's been doing a great job. And I think you

know they're aware of New York now too, and that's

quite frankly what got them over the line. Right. Remember

we were telling you, like, when given give us something

to take the Vermont right, And when we got New York,

we went to Verront and said, you know, because of

your cooperation, we got New York. And then that immediately

generated this letter of intent. So but in order to

kind of keep I think Vermont's on board, it certainly

would be nice to kind of say, all right, you know,

based upon your letter, we also got you know X,

the name, the name of a victim, the radication of

a body, and you know we already have their assurance

it's about the Caurier matter. You don't have to worry

about what's happening with that because that's all tied up

in this. And we could do the same thing with

the New York made them Right.

Speaker 8: Where are they at with the I mean, did they

find the bodies yet?

Speaker 3: Or I think it's it's like the football field where

the stuff they're going through it they're making they're making progress,

but it's just uh, it's it.

Speaker 4: Could still be like a couple of weeks or something.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it definitely gonna stop.

Speaker 4: This is, you know, tenacious.

Speaker 1: One of the best analogies I've heard for it is

it's more like on the archaeological big Maybe it is

just going through a kind of tossing things right until

you find what you think you're looking for.

Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot of.

Speaker 8: Trouble to go to almost feel guilty costing.

Speaker 4: The taxpayers a lot of money to find those off shut.

Speaker 5: But that's how I'm committed that, you know, I understand,

you know it.

Speaker 4: Just well, it sounds like they've got it. They've got

the area. They just got to find it.

Speaker 1: They're very confident of that, and they've been finding things

that are in the right time frame, and they're you know,

from residences and businesses.

Speaker 2: In that immediate area, so they're confident they're in the

right area.

Speaker 1: But as you can imagine, it's something that they're trying

to do precisely.

Speaker 8: Right, accurately, and there hasn't been I haven't honestly, I

haven't had access to any news stories related that I

saw the one that you showed me.

Speaker 5: That's the start the google. I google it almost every day.

There's nothing.

Speaker 4: They haven't the kind of dead story at this point.

Speaker 12: Okay, So I mean I think what I heard is

you you're you're wanting to take responsibility. Your plan is

to take responsibility if you can figure out how to

do this without getting the recognition, which is kind of.

Speaker 4: Yeah, right.

Speaker 8: My concern the problem is nowadays, the more stuff my

name is attached to, the more likely it is that

somebody's gonna try to do some kind of stupid freaking

TV special or you know, you know how it is

nowadays like the oldest true crime bullshit that people are

obsessed with, And that's the I'm not even so concerned

at this point about you know, because so far I

feel like we have been able to work within the

guidelines of what we both said we would. But I'm yeah,

I am concerned about that, about someone connecting the dots

on this, and.

Speaker 3: I don't know how.

Speaker 4: Like the right there.

Speaker 8: I know there's certain privacy laws, but I know that,

you know, for the most case, they're not going to

apply to me, And so I know that at some

point it's pretty likely that if someone tried hard enough,

they could, you know.

Speaker 1: Not so much, because this is you get a couple

of things sort of looking in our favor on this.

One is an ongoing investigation, right and so that right

there is going to limit the amount of information that's

going to be released. And two, it's an ongoing federal investigation.

And we play by a whole different set of rules

than most of the states out there, and so media

aged media outlets don't have the same ability to come

in and sort of force us, if you will, to

disclose information that they might be able to get away

with with state local agencies.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I can see that that they would have more

to go up against. But there's also I mean, if

I'm dead, then the investigation from the federal government's point

of view is pretty much closed.

Speaker 2: Not necessarily.

Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna do what we need to do

to tie up the loose ends, and to the extent

that we can do that with your assistance, Like we've

talked in the past, if we go at this as

a team and we have the benefit of your information,

it allows us to go hunting.

Speaker 3: With a rifle.

Speaker 1: It's a shotgun, and there may be things that we

wind up having to follow up on down the road.

Speaker 2: When you're no longer in a position to assist us.

Speaker 13: But but yeah, our idea is to is to do

this with you so that it's focused and we won't

and it's not gonna get anywhere near like it is

in Vermont, because we've all learned from that stuff. But

the way to get it like that is for us

to have to try and figure it out ourselves. And

that's what we've me And you know that you know

exactly what we're faced with and what kind of publicity

we're all gonna be faced with and questions that we're

gonna have to answer, and that these other agencies are

going to be asking us and those are the things

that we're trying to avoid. Knowing that you're the only

one that can help us keep this to a as

a little publicity as possible.

Speaker 5: It's it's up to you, all right. Well, and so

that's that's where we're at.

Speaker 2: With And the reality is if.

Speaker 1: If we're not able to do this with your assistance,

I can't imagine being able to do this without generating

a fair amount of publicity.

Speaker 2: I just don't think it's possible because it's.

Speaker 1: Gonna be too large in scope and it's gonna involve

too many, too many jurisdictions and too many agencies.

Speaker 2: Right, And I'm just being honest.

Speaker 8: Yeah, Uh, I mean I know, I know you've got

to move along with your investigation. And uh, unfortunately, due

to my own actions recently, I am somewhat complicated matters

for me, so.

Speaker 4: Not surprisingly now there's something else I want out of this,

But I don't know if I'm even supposed to talk

to that about that yet because I.

Speaker 8: Uh, I haven't even found out like what the options are.

Speaker 12: From something that you can talk about. It's not related

to nah, it's just.

Speaker 8: Like the uh, the level of restriction they have me

onto the jail makes uh. I mean namely, like like

my so called rec time is now fresh air time

because I go out like this, so light irons and stuff.

Speaker 4: No more running in circles. I guess they figure they.

Speaker 8: Yeah, they keep me mysel enough, I'll get fat and

I won't want to run anymore.

Speaker 3: But yeah, I know this.

Speaker 8: I know that's unrelated to anything we've talked about so far.

Speaker 4: Obviously it's a new situation, but it.

Speaker 8: Doesn't really change the fact it's an everyday reality me.

Speaker 4: So I'm trying to, you know, figure.

Speaker 8: Out what what if any options there are regarding within

the system anyway that And like you say, I I

think so far, yeah, things are have worked fine. I uh,

but yeah, I am concerned about not so much the

right like right here now, publicity. I think we can

keep that under wraps to a large extent.

Speaker 4: I'm more work or.

Speaker 8: If it's possible, I intend to do something take steps

to minimize the down.

Speaker 4: The road publicity, right, I understand that. Yeah, And because honestly,

you guys, I you know it's not.

Speaker 8: You know, I mean, there's nothing I'm I'm not trying

to get anything else out of this at this point,

you know, and I, as you know, and I did say,

you know, I wanted to just get this all cleared up,

and that way you're not digging for who knows how

many years down the road, you know, trying to connect

the dots to just make it all go away.

Speaker 4: But but I don't know. I just have to figure

out the best way to do that, to make it

all go And I understand that.

Speaker 5: But two, and you've heard me say this many many times,

but that.

Speaker 12: At some point in time, you may your choices, may

your choice may be the reality could be that and

everybody else.

Speaker 5: Knows what you did based on what you said.

Speaker 12: You did, or everybody else gets to see the fiasco

and the media frenzy that is created by law enforce

trying to figure out right with speculations, speculating what you did.

Because I told you, you know, on the one trip

that we've looked at surrounding New York, we have ten

viable well people that are missing that we know of.

Those are just the ones that are still reported that way.

And so if we have to and we know you

didn't do that, But that's what we're looking at in

each one of these the trips is we're faced with

if you don't tell us, our options are to be

public with that agency because we can't ask questions and

not expect questions in return. And so we are we're

really living up to our end at the bargain. And

because at this point in an investigation, if you weren't

cooperating with this, this would already have been happening and

the media frenzy would be crazy with us trying to

figure it out, because we do have enough information on.

Speaker 5: Your on your trips at least to do police work.

Speaker 12: Right, not that we're gonna come like you know, you

don't think we're paying anting out, but we have to try.

And so and I know that's tough for you to

think about in the future, is that the.

Speaker 5: Reality may be that.

Speaker 12: You know, one's worse than the other, obviously, right, so.

Speaker 3: Especially the one in New York. I mean, because the

only reason we're not just showing you a picture here

is these guys and the FBI have been incredibly restrained

about asking that part of the country for assistance because

if they ask that part of the country for assistance,

the immediate response is going to be, well, what you

have where you have? And so that's the reason We're

not sitting here throwing you know, pictures in front of

you and going to you first, because you know, we

understand you're cooperating with us. Vermont understands it, and that's

why they're on board, and we just like to continue

that effort instead of you know, having this whole you know,

media frenzy too, right frankly, and you know with respect

to I mean, there is that whole frenzy that it's

going to be created. You know if if things slow down,

I think you know we touched on this last time,

is that there may be some benefit at the end

of this too. Well. You know, media says that Israel

Key has killed forty people, which you know, based upon

some wild speculation, as opposed to he killed ten and

then also gave closure to those families as his sort

of last effort. And I know that doesn't matter to.

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Speaker 12: And you know, we're always going to be bound to

not talk about this, justike we are now.

Speaker 5: And assume you're not going.

Speaker 12: To be telling people details other people that could you

know what I mean?

Speaker 3: What do you mean?

Speaker 12: Well, I mean you do press releases all the time,

but you know that the details of this and these

investigations are right here right now, and that.

Speaker 5: A lot of these details are are going to be released.

Speaker 8: Well that is my concern that, Yeah, how am I

I mean, I don't know, I don't see. I don't

know that because I mean, I see, you know, I

watch the news that there are press releases that.

Speaker 4: Are done on other plans.

Speaker 1: So press releases, though, are different than what I think

you're worried about, and rightly so. Press releases are designed

for to help us gather additional information and so our

release of information, well while investigation is ongoing, is limited

to the absolute minimum necessary to try and obtain the

additional information that we're seeking.

Speaker 4: Okay, does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: And as long as the investigation is on going, we're

not gonna be thrown out information just for the sake.

Speaker 2: Of throwing it out. That's not the way we operate, right.

Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen specials on the FBI who come

on everybody talks about our secret files and how we'd never.

Speaker 8: Give up anything, right, Yeah, there you go. Well, yeah,

I mean let's I like I say, I wanna have

a chance.

Speaker 4: To to talk about the.

Speaker 8: Letter with some people, and I wanna have a chance

to hear back on the other thing. I'm not gonna

hold my breath on that, but I want at least

see what the options are. And like I say, I

would have preferred to wait until they find the bodies

that Vermont, but it sounds like that.

Speaker 4: Could be a while. So I guess as long as

we have that letter from them, then.

Speaker 8: You know, as soon as I have a chance to to.

Speaker 6: Look it over or have other you know, other people

look it over, and then then we can.

Speaker 4: Move on to the New York trip. Yeah, I mean,

you guys already have.

Speaker 8: I'm sure quite a bit of information on it, so

you probably have more than I remember at this point.

Speaker 4: So except I mean except for.

Speaker 3: So and we could have those two and so we're

just sort of holding that into bands.

Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I understand.

Speaker 3: So that's that's the only reason. So just so Unclaire,

I can tell Vermont tomorro on this conference call that

you appreciate their letter and you intend to go full.

Speaker 4: Work with Yeah, I will, yeah, keep working.

Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's reasonably Yeah, especially I.

Speaker 8: Mean especially on the New York case, because I've already

given you so much information on it.

Speaker 4: It's you know, we got to can't really stop on

that one now.

Speaker 3: So let's say one thing that might be helpful. And

I don't think this is sort of giving away anything,

So we just start thinking along those terms cabinets back

East and sort of meeting of criminal chiefs. And it

certainly would be nice for him to start networking whatever

criminal chief he needs to in terms of the New

York thing. Now, you know, again, I don't I don't

think that gives away anything. You haven't you just told

us the body is in New York. We want to

start striking up relationships with whatever criminal chief he needs

to talk to or will need to talk to about

the New York thing, because you've already said you've committed.

Speaker 8: Yeah, but I mean I don't want to talk. I

don't want to give out any more information on it.

I mean, I understand from his point of view, but it's,

you know, like I say, it's still Frankly, that's gonna

be too.

Speaker 3: Much if I at this point, I don't I don't

want to go there yet until I.

Speaker 4: Find out where I'm at with with what we were,

you know, with the new developments.

Speaker 3: So mhm, okay, what about And I'm just thinking about

his trip because he'd asked me to come ask you

these things, says he's gonna be there. He's also with

the people in Washington. I mean, you've already talked to

us about Washington, and I think these guys have some

pictures Washington stage, you have some pictures they want to

show you about.

Speaker 5: That, just to let you know that we didn't have

You found the boat.

Speaker 12: Had better days cover It was a good investment, though

really I was still on the shape.

Speaker 4: Looks like it's a little leaky at this point.

Speaker 5: You know, it was still in his driveway, just uh,

just just sitting there. He hadn't touched it.

Speaker 4: So yeah, I had big plans for that boat, though, whatever.

Speaker 3: What plans did you have for the boat?

Speaker 5: Oh?

Speaker 4: I was gonna bring it up here, but bring up

here and putting your motor on it.

Speaker 8: But they decided it was time to leave alask anyway,

So I probably would've picked it up eventually.

Speaker 4: It's been there for a long time, what since they're

seven there.

Speaker 3: M anyway. So the thing about Washington's a little little

simply from his perspective, there's only two federal districts there,

Eastern and Western. So Eastern is more like the Golman Yakima,

Western and Seattle, right, And that's kind enough, Okay, the

line it's like it's Spokane Yakima and then there's Seattle

to come out.

Speaker 9: It's in the west, right, And I think he'd like

to be in a position to sort of just chat

very briefly with one of those criminal chiefs, if not both,

if he needs to to sort of lay the foundation.

Speaker 8: Well, the problem I was talking about anything related to

Washington is I'm not playing ball with the right people

because those I'm almost positive we're not gonna be federal.

Speaker 4: In the case they're not federal cases.

Speaker 5: Well, why do you think that.

Speaker 14: I think Kevin explains to you like different stuff that

I okay, so well, I mean, I think Kevin explained

to you that the jurisdiction that we can exercise is

pretty expansive.

Speaker 4: Especially if it's you know, part of that gonna right

and try No, I I understand that.

Speaker 8: But again, we're this is gonna be hard to talk

about without getting into stuff we're not supposed to talk about.

Speaker 4: But uh, depending on things, you know, the way things

pan out, you know, the things.

Speaker 8: We've already talked about, then I may need those details

of the Washington case.

Speaker 4: Is that.

Speaker 8: That I would be better served to wait, you know,

to if that's where the route I have to go.

Speaker 4: I mean, if you know what I mean, it's.

Speaker 2: I think I do.

Speaker 15: I'm not sure, and I know we talked a little

bit about it because yeah, because like there's a big

difference between state and federal it seems and it seems

like Washington might be a state.

Speaker 3: But but that's something that we can sort it's not

working on in the background. Just so you know, I mean,

I'm not asking yet, you know here and now today,

but that's something that usually does require quip between even

the federal districts, even if they're state things.

Speaker 4: So you're saying, there's two d I'm sorry, districts districts.

Speaker 3: So there's two federal districts that we probably just sort

of broach with it. One and in Spokane and Yakima

are the main offices in the one, and then Seattle

and Tacoma or in the Western district. So that's just

the dividing line. I don't know exactly where it is,

but pretty much, you know, Seattle and Tacoma is where

most of the crimes are everything, Like, yeah, I think

that's that's Ellensburg is Ellensburg is western East East Ellensburg

sort of outside of Yakima.

Speaker 4: You're gonna need both districts because I don't yeah bout me.

It's something.

Speaker 8: I mean.

Speaker 3: The good thing about Washington is we have some you know,

pretty good relationships with both US attorneys there and you know,

both criminals don't.

Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I I understand what you're saying, but that

was a few years ago.

Speaker 3: So but no, I.

Speaker 4: It just seems like I might end up having to

talk to s like a state people there. I don't know.

Speaker 3: I don't know either, but I mean the good thing

is that the federal people have their counterparts, you know,

like Vermont was pretty connected with the Chittenden County folks,

you know, right, we can sort of get them on

board and makes the transition easier sort of, uh move

forward and their jurisdiction that if that's the the way

you choose to go, obviously everybody would have to be

on board anyway, right, So that's it's useful for him

to sort of give them my heads.

Speaker 1: Up, and I I think frank and correct me if

I'm wrong, obviously, but I think this suitor that uh,

they have that opportunity, the less likely you are to

kind of get drugged from one jurisdiction to another, because

there'll already be things in place.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 5: No, I.

Speaker 8: I'm a little I'm My concern at this point is

uh not knowing, like I say, how current things are

going to pan out.

Speaker 4: The information that I still have, uh.

Speaker 16: Could come in handy if I need it, and if

I give it out now before, I mean, I yeah,

I don't think I'll need it in that respect, but

you know, you never know, I don't know, I don't

know what's gonna happen, and uh, and if I give

it all out now, it's particularly you know anything about Washington, Uh,

that could seriously compromise.

Speaker 4: My options future options I.

Speaker 3: Think sort of them. And I can sort of bring

that back in you at some point, obviously, you know,

we can take this stagger approach, which I think is

probably a good one, to go to different places if

they don't one at a time. But the plan that

what we've proposed to you is to do exactly that.

So like you sort of do the New York one,

we make sure we have everybody on board, and the

New York one, whatever jurisdictions, we need to get that

information agreement in place, and then we can move on

to Washington. Right, Washington, you know basically would have the

same agreement, and then you know, it could be an

option that you could always use later down the road

if you don't like the way things are going, you

can ask us to simply say, hey, you know, there's

that thing in Washington that I helped you on. Can

you you know, re you out to those people again

and see what they're willing to do. So there is that.

I mean, I get you with you don't want to

kind of you know, sort of give away cards. But

I think that the plan that we propose to you

is sort of like a one at a time staggered

approach where we eventually get to where we need to

be going. And it doesn't like result in this land

just massive.

Speaker 4: Yeah, but it is going to have to be spread

out over the next.

Speaker 8: Who knows how long, because I don't plan on, like

I say, until certain issues, ongoing issues right now are resolved.

Speaker 4: I don't plan on giving out all them. That's just

you know, well that's not true. I mean, if I

get you know, who knows how, I don't know how

long this is.

Speaker 5: Going to take.

Speaker 3: I don't I don't know, you know.

Speaker 4: My impression is it would be a pretty wide range

of timeframes that could happen.

Speaker 8: And but yeah, first and foremost, you know, one step

at a time, I've gotta I've gotta have a chance to.

Speaker 4: To tackle, you know, whatever new issues are on the table.

Speaker 3: So yeah, we can review that, and obviously you need

to think about this. There's one suggestion to email about

you know, other details in the Courier case that they

may want to know about and they want a conference

call in now that you have this letter, I mean,

how do you feel about that? That's I mean, with

who is it with this little investigators? So like the.

Speaker 4: Detectives, if that were on the case or.

Speaker 3: Now it's we could do it two ways. I don't

know if they're gonna have a lot of questions. If

they have a few, we can simply ask those and

sort of get them the information they need.

Speaker 4: You know, but is it gonna be it's like a

few people. I mean, you say a conference call.

Speaker 3: Is just whoever's on the other line. I don't know

who would be on the line. Probably just the detective

and the prosecutor.

Speaker 4: Okay, that's you know, I don't I don't know. It

seems like it'd be better. I don't have a problem

with that.

Speaker 8: It's just it seems like it'd be better if there's

not a ton of people on the since we're still

trying to keep it on the down walls.

Speaker 3: I mean, it would only be people who were bound

by this letter. If it is okay, people would just

be like.

Speaker 4: I say, I feel like I've already given all the

information they need. But if they want more, that's fine.

Speaker 3: I mean, I think they have some follow up about

what the house look like and things like that that

they they're just dealing with some administrative issues on their

end that they're trying to release the house to the

family and family they're trying to get rid of the house,

so they're not gonna keep it in the way it was,

So they just want to make sure they document everything

that they need to just right, Okay, Yeah, I.

Speaker 9: Mean, given that they have this assurance that I don't

don't think it's a problem, but that's up to you

and maybe they don't have much but I'm gonna talk

to them about that tomorrow.

Speaker 4: Yeah that's fine, And.

Speaker 8: I uh, like you say, if if you can forward that,

I'm i'm'a actually very shortly all have a chance to

talk to them about it.

Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 8: Yeah, then there's the issue with the US Marshalls. But

like I said, I don't know if there's anything that any.

Speaker 4: Of us can do about that.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. It's it's security is a difficult

thing that they kind of basically tell us the mind

our own business when it comes to security. So it's

you know, chief that kind of thing. I mean, I

don't know. It's a difficult situation given what happened.

Speaker 12: They're they're responsible for you in your custody, so they

would have been they looked pretty foolish if you've gotten

too much farther. Yeah, so they're probably not gonna who knows.

I doubt they're going to be open to much of

your suggestions.

Speaker 4: But I don't know I'm gonna take any of my suggestions.

Speaker 8: A little bit of my suggestions seem to hold less

and less water lately.

Speaker 5: I'm sure they're very polite about it though.

Speaker 8: Yeah, they all seem quite highly amused last time I

was at the courthouse.

Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely seem to have changed their protocol for the

way they do.

Speaker 3: So we're lining things up a little bit. And we

weren't sure exactly how to deal with this situation with

her mont given.

Speaker 4: That, Yeah, that was not well thought out on my part.

As as soon as these guys mentioned that as like,

oh shit, one more thing I didn't think of before.

Speaker 3: I that you seem to have a basic plan but

just sort of even be and then she sort of

left out there.

Speaker 8: Yeah, well it wasn't really like a high probability of

success there, and the best of circumstances.

Speaker 3: No, understood, understood you know obviously like half a football

team of US marshals between me and the doors.

Speaker 4: So and off's your bell. Yes, I'm pretty sure I

saw him come in. He's claiming he didn't.

Speaker 3: But all right, you have anything else you want to

talk about the questions you have on these other matters.

Speaker 4: No, I think I mean, from my perspective, I think

the letter is good.

Speaker 8: I but yeah, it's with my perspective, the lad there's

still willing to work with.

Speaker 4: Me on it.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is a home run from my perspective,

you know, and you're starting to check it out. These

people are who they say they are, and you know

they when they can call to any of these people,

you know, I'm sure that you know they'll they'll take

the call and confirm that that's you know, their signature

on the letters.

Speaker 4: But yeah, you did say that everyone on that is

with the state, not with exactly.

Speaker 3: Okay, So the Feds are already you know, we've been

talking to them in the outset and they're you know,

under the Department of Justice right anyway, so you know

they have no problem.

Speaker 4: They just want to in the state is there the

entity that's more likely to want to release information on

me exactly.

Speaker 12: And I can tell you they were the ones that's

responsible for the investigation, right yeah, so they're yeah.

Speaker 3: And let me share this with you. I think it's

kind of important and to the model on how to

deal with things. I know that you know, obviously they

were reporters that called maybe friends or family members of

of you. I think what happened in the outset is,

like we said, you know, we can provided them with

the information. They didn't know what they were dealing with

at first, so they had no idea. And I think

someone spoke you know, at a turn or at school,

whatever you want to call it, maybe one person over there,

and now they've realized, oh shit, we shouldn't have said

what we said, and they basically shut it down. No

one can confirm that story. So I think it's incredibly

helpful to have this sort of model going forward and

to be able to tell them that, look, you know,

we want to limit media attention, right New York victim.

We want to kind of keep things in one jurisdiction.

We want FBI to handle it because we're dealing with

something that's more than just your jurisdiction before all they

knew that, you know, it was just you know, at

last and of the couriers, and oh boy, we've got

some sort of what we've caught ourselves our suspect they

didn't understand the big picture. And I think that's what happened,

because that was obviously a concern to us, you know,

sort of any surely talking to them, But I think

when and you get their perspective, I think they they

realize that, oh, you know, this is something we should

be doing, and they they realize the severity of it.

And now I think we've got a pretty good relationship

with them, and you know, we're happy to talk to

them as long as you know, they're on board. They're

you know, part of the team. And again we're just

building momentum and the next jurisdiction, you know, we can

have Vermont and they've offered to do that and say, well,

they'll reach out to the next jurisdiction simply and say, hey,

you know, we did this in our jurisdiction and it worked,

and it worked well, you should too. And this way,

you know, we've got state and local officers reaching out

to the other jurisdiction the state and locals there and

basically tell them this is a good idea. So it

really it gets the momentum that it snowballs and it

can't be stopped and no one's gonna get in the

way of it. So I think that's the best way

to control, you know, any kind of media attention here

is just with the cooperation of law enforcement as a whole. Right,

I think you know we're doing a good job, and

we continue.

Speaker 4: I mean at some point, though.

Speaker 5: I don't.

Speaker 4: I mean, I haven't felt like this so far, but.

Speaker 8: I mean, I know you guys keep wanting information and

and like I've said, I don't want to give out

everything all at once, but I just don't want us

to get in a situation where, you know, we reach

an impass and you're like, Okay, we're gonna go and

start doing press releases now or whatever, and I and

then I'm going to be all pissed off, frankly, and

you know.

Speaker 4: And then so I mean, I that's all I ask.

Speaker 8: I'm not saying this is going to remain a compatible relationship, obviously.

Speaker 4: But you know, if we can keep it at least

an opening communication.

Speaker 12: And that's why we're Frankly, we came over the today

and you told us you weren't in a talkative move,

and we still wanted to bring you over because we still.

Speaker 5: Want to keep this all right, this relationship going on.

Speaker 12: You know, we're getting pressures, We're all getting pressures from

the powers to be that controlled us, our bosses too

right to get information.

Speaker 5: You understand that we all have jobs to do, and

so we just want to keep the communication open with that.

Speaker 8: And that's my I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm

not so concerned about the people in this room. I'm

concerned about the people putting pressure on you to get

the answers. I imagine they you know, they don't care

about my agenda. They want all the answers like right now,

you know, And I understand that, but I just hope

it doesn't come to that. I just hope it doesn't

come to like to standoff.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, this is a business deal.

I think, you know, Agent Bayne explained, it's sort of

you know, it's just a it's a business deal. It's

kind of strange because you know, obviously we all have

different interests, but that's usually the case in any kind

of business deal is you have stuff that we want. Man,

we have, you know, things that we can assure you

of that you know, there's some value to you, I think.

And so in any kind of business deal, like I said, negotiations,

any good negotiations, everybody walks away from the table, you know,

not getting exactly what they want. I think you know,

we've we've basically been able to manage our supervisors that

way by saying, look, he's not gonna give us everything

up front. Okay, he's not gonna do it, but we're

able to kind of say, hey, but but he will

maybe give us one at a time and draw it

out for a period of time to keep sort of

the benefit of bargain for us. And we're not expending

man hours and you know going through all the press

and media and you know, other local departments. So yeah,

we're not getting exactly what we want, and you're probably

not getting exactly what you can do, and you probably

like to not give us any of it. Yeah, but

you know it's a business deal, and you know we're

keeping up our end of it, and I think we

can continue to work together.

Speaker 4: As long as we're reasonable. Yeah, I just I just

wanted to. I figured that was the case. I just

wanted to, like, you know, that's what I was thinking.

Speaker 12: But know that when we're well, we're doing what we're doing,

our responsibilities and talking to you and trying to keep

this going, there are lots of other people out there

investigating trips and airline tickets and phone launs and things

like that, doing what police do. And there's gonna come

a point in time where when that investigations reaches a

point where they think they have some information that they

need to act on, where that's the timeline we're going

to be pushed up against, all right, having them slow down.

Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, all right, well yeah, And the only other

thing is on a more personal note, like I was

saying earlier, my my brothers are visiting this week, and honestly,

you know, like I say that, that whole thing last

week I did not plan out very well. But I

would prefer to just try not to think about any

of this stuff that will all are here.

Speaker 4: No, I mean, it's not that I don't want to,

it's just I guess I'm just juggling too many things

in my head right now.

Speaker 8: So so yeah, and then that'll give me a chance

to you know, talk to people about that and a

couple other.

Speaker 4: Concerns I have. And but I mean for now, I

mean for now, I think.

Speaker 8: We Yeah, I'm just glad that they're still willing to

I'm just like, bottom line is, I'm glad I didn't

hear about it on the news, like the whole ver

moonth I.

Speaker 4: Half expected them to do a press Rea.

Speaker 10: Yeah.

Speaker 3: I think it's a testament of the relationships we built

over there.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So I mean, yeah, as long as we can. Yeah,

keep the.

Speaker 5: Week.

Speaker 4: I think they leave on Sunday or Monday.

Speaker 3: So yeah.

Speaker 8: And I the main it's not so much that I

wouldn't want to, you know, if it's like a short

I don't have a problem coming over and you're talking.

Speaker 4: I I just don't want to miss the time that

they go over there to visiting or whatever.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 4: And I don't even know how like what the times

are that they have available so visit you daily? Yeah probably,

I don't think so.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I mean I think that's just what I

wanted to tell for Mone, because you saw in that

email they said, you know, you know, maybe have some

questions on Thursday or Friday, they've got some urgency about

the house, so I don't.

Speaker 4: Know if it's that's fine.

Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, if you want to get a schedule

about when they're gonna come, we don't want to interfere

with that, and we don't want to.

Speaker 4: Well the time. So if we did it in the morning,

that would be fine.

Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm talking about your family coming to visit.

Speaker 5: It doesn't know, they don't, they don't don't.

Speaker 3: It may be possibly later this week. I mean, obviously

we wouldn't do it tomorrow the next day, but you

can sort of let them know. We could set a

meeting for Thursday or Friday.

Speaker 4: No, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 8: If you want to do a meeting, I'm just saying morning,

like Eastern time, yeah, nine or ten our time.

Speaker 3: Yeah, then that.

Speaker 8: Because I know there's no visiting over there that early.

And then okay, and then I would yeah, still be

around after that makes sense. Then if we if they

have some.

Speaker 4: Follow up and yeah, to get out of the way, that's.

Speaker 2: Fine, right, I mean, do you have a preference Thursday

or f.

Speaker 3: Or No, it doesn't.

Speaker 4: I don't think it matters. I have to check my

day planning.

Speaker 12: Yeah, so you don't get the normal exercise, so they

let you have the tennis shoes or torchree that you

can't run or yeah.

Speaker 9: Uh.

Speaker 4: No, I just started wearing. I don't get around anymore.

Speaker 8: So my tennis shoes is I don't I don't lace

them up tight anymore, so I just wear. You know,

your cats, they're slippers now, they're not tennis shoes anymore.

Speaker 2: So when you start lacing 'em up, you should be

we should pay attention.

Speaker 8: Yeah, if they're they're too tight for me to slip

'em on or slip 'em slip 'em off, then let me.

Speaker 3: They don't planning on doing little an turn up. Okay,

so we nail that to attorneys and uh, you know

people will speak later this week.

Speaker 4: Yeah, then we'll try a hold off.

Speaker 5: If we do something, it'll be like Friday more and

early that we won't interrupt.

Speaker 17: Your Yeah, that's that's fine. I would think that would work.

And then maybe by next week, say Tuesday or so weekend. Yeah, okay, Well,

and I think if we're done, well we get him

a cigar. Let him since we got yell, we're here.

Speaker 3: Awesome cigar for nothing.

Speaker 5: I was I like to think it's a cigar for

good faith.

Speaker 2: But ultimately for good healthy Ultimately that's gonna be up

to you as right.

Speaker 4: Okay, Now, I mean if we can keep working on this,

we're working on our ends.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done just about everything we can do at

this stage.

Speaker 5: All right, Any Titans will be getting back with you here,

all right,