October 22, 2012: Part 2
In the second half of this interview, Keyes shares his thoughts on other serial killers like BTK, Ted Bundy, and The Green River Killer. Then he discusses his plans for the future, losing control, and how the facade of his life was moving further and further away from who he really was. He also goes into detail regarding the New York victim, the Curriers, breaking into homes, arsons, and fatherhood... and public art.
TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026
SPONSORS
• Boll and Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off your first order with code: TRUECRIMEBS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.
• AquaTru: AquaTru.com for 20% off using promo code LONGSHORT
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.
Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production. Hey everybody, it's
special announcement time. June eleventh marks the ten year anniversary
of the very first episode of my very first podcast
being released. Ten years since this whole journey began, this
journey I have been so fortunate to get to share
with you guys, and we are going to celebrate over
the next few months. There will be bonus episodes, retrospectives,
and behind the scenes look at ten years of podcasting
on Patreon and on this main feed. And then we're
going to have a big party over the weekend of
September twenty fifth here in the Berkshires. We're having a
hybrid event with live shows, studio sessions, and outside activities
with a ton of special guests. We already have a
few locked in and let me tell you, this lineup
is going to be astounding. It's also going to be
a pretty intimate party. We are only selling seventy five
tickets to this event. Tickets go on sale on June first,
and I'll start announcing who the special guests are then,
So mark your calendars and start planning for this incredible,
once in a lifetime podcast retreat here in the magical
Berkshires on the tail end of summer and the very
beginning of leaf peeping season. You can watch live shows,
tour the research library, get behind the scenes looks at
the creation of true crime, Bullshit and other podcasts, and
explore the Berkshires with some of your favorite podcasters. You're
going to get to come up, celebrate ten years of
podcasting with a bunch of your favorite podcasters, and actually
get out into the beautiful Berkshires and explore this incredible
part of the country. In the meantime, we have seven
tickets left for our trip to Costa Rica in November.
You can click the link in the show notes or
go to the website to find out more and book. Today,
we're going to be on the Pacific coast, hiking through rainforests,
boating in the ocean, walking through nature, visiting coffee plantations,
and hopefully probably seeing a sloth or kuwate or jaguar
or all of the above. I cannot wait to kick
off winter in the Tropics with you, so check that
out again in the show notes or on the website,
and we'll be announcing two more Trova trips over the
next four months. That's it for now. Tickets for our
anniversary event go on sale June first, so check back
on the website or on your feed where I will
be announcing it. And now here is the second half
of Israel Keys's October twenty second interviews.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm happy about the life I've lived and
you know, as long as I got.
Speaker 3: Away with it. But that being said, it was, you know,
considering that's all I have.
Speaker 4: Now it's be better to have more and more memories.
Speaker 5: So do you think that's a like a part of
the memories part.
Speaker 3: It is now? Well, it is now.
Speaker 4: It's never never was a consideration before.
Speaker 3: I was very interested in the next plan.
Speaker 2: And that's I don't know, from what I've read, that's
a pretty common theme.
Speaker 3: It's, uh, what what they.
Speaker 2: With most serial killers, if you will, that I've read
about the nothing ever goes exactly it's plan and and.
Speaker 3: So or maybe.
Speaker 2: Maybe it does, but you're in in your mind, you
up the anti as far as.
Speaker 3: Who were where? What happens? The word, the way things happen,
how long it goes on.
Speaker 4: That's what constantly keep kept me obsessed with, you know, whatever.
Speaker 2: The future might hold, its opposed to things like that.
Speaker 3: That's that, and you mean.
Speaker 2: Tempered by the fact that I was always on the
thought I just thought I had it all figured out.
It was like, I just don't don't know anything that
was around, you know, close to home or whatever.
Speaker 5: So what what what do you think was able to
give you that self control?
Speaker 3: I didn't have any self control, like til.
Speaker 5: You tried to have I tried, And what would you
do to help yourself?
Speaker 3: So well, there's other.
Speaker 2: Outlets, you know, I but I'm I'm I'm just saying
in like BTK for example. He uh, that's why that
whole story. He must have found a really interesting hobby
to have for those twenty years. Because either that or
he was, like you say, truly or tentent or sorry
or decays he because that that doesn't make sense or nobody.
Speaker 3: Knows what happened during those one years. Now, he was
a he was a publicity odds. So if I think
if he had done something, he probably would have told
people about it.
Speaker 6: No, in one place too, and it was all we're
in Kansas, I think too.
Speaker 3: We didn't really travel that much. Right.
Speaker 7: One of the things that seemed that I rand it
was kind of.
Speaker 8: Interesting was so one of the features if certain types
of serial killers is excessive driving, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 9: I don't about.
Speaker 2: I had some theories about him.
Speaker 3: Seems like he at some point.
Speaker 2: He killed the whole family and they had to kill
some kids that were pretty young. I could see where
that could possibly like if I had ever been put
in that situation change, if there was anything that would
have changed anything about me.
Speaker 3: That's possibly the only scenario.
Speaker 7: That was his very first killing though, would have killed
the family.
Speaker 3: It was his first time. See, that's what I wasn't sure.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was his first you know that to.
Speaker 3: Me, that would explain it if that was his last. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 10: You said you try to avoid those situations though more
and more any other differently.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it doesn't have to make sense. It just
doesn't make sense to me or to the person. Tip.
Speaker 5: What other characteristics that you see in in the other serial?
Speaker 3: He always you part about?
Speaker 11: Like?
Speaker 3: What other.
Speaker 2: I don't know some of 'em, some of the more
recent ones I don't really know that much about.
Speaker 3: But I like Green River.
Speaker 2: He was probably the most prolific, certainly in modern times.
And uh, but it seems like he might have been
another one who was the last few years he wasn't doing.
Speaker 3: Anything when he was finally caught up.
Speaker 2: I know he was already married and settled down, but
I think he had been married for.
Speaker 3: Part of the time. That was always I was always
interested in it.
Speaker 4: Those individuals that had to lead that life.
Speaker 2: It's not easy, but that's kind of what you were
doing when you had 'em right, And that's why I
can say, like, from my perspective, I know it's not easy.
I'd come to the conclusion.
Speaker 4: Over the last couple of years that it wasn't even.
Speaker 3: An option for me anymore, that you were gonna not
be I that I wa that I.
Speaker 12: Wasn't wouldn't be able to cohabitate with anyone.
Speaker 3: And why was that? Uh?
Speaker 2: I just couldn't couldn't separate the two lives anymore.
Speaker 6: You're still able to be a very good parent, though,
I mean, that's obviously it wouldn't have gone away right.
Speaker 2: I I'm not saying my plan was realistic, but I
was planning on.
Speaker 3: Continuing to raise her.
Speaker 11: I just.
Speaker 4: It's easier with the k With a child, you know
they're they have.
Speaker 3: To follow the rules, whereas with you, you're with your partner,
you know they're certain aspects of your.
Speaker 2: Life that they're gonna whether they're doing it on purpose
or by accident, they're gonna pry into and find out things,
see things. They're gonna get harder and harder to explain
as the years go by.
Speaker 5: So so you thought that just wasn't workable in the
long run.
Speaker 11: It was.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was just becoming less or less maintainable.
Speaker 4: And and like you say.
Speaker 2: My my self control wasn't. I felt like it was
no longer to a point where I could put things
off till next trip or whatever.
Speaker 11: It was.
Speaker 3: My solution and was to just make.
Speaker 5: Get a travel trailer any make life?
Speaker 3: You make? What being no being nomad? I guess, oh
that's what you were thinking. You were just to it
was just gonna live.
Speaker 7: In a travel trailer or travel around or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanna have a home base and travel. Did
you have plans for the future. Yeah, that's that's what
I was gonna do.
Speaker 2: It was gonna be a traveling contractor HM following hurricanes,
pretty feasible explanation for why I would live that way.
Speaker 3: But that's not really whatever I mean. Obviously it would
be interested in doing construction anymore.
Speaker 5: Any So, what other outlets for for the lack of
self control over the years that you have.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's quite a few, but there's not anything that
comes close.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like comparing.
Speaker 4: I there really is no comparison. I.
Speaker 2: I can't really say there's a distinguished the amount of
difference there.
Speaker 3: Is between.
Speaker 2: Playing a video game or watching a movie that centers
on whatever you're interested in versus you know the word
things but that you know that those are all still
good escapes, and.
Speaker 3: You know there are.
Speaker 2: What if I was just taking taking a short trip
or whatever. You know, there's always other things, less high.
Speaker 3: Profile things you can do. Arson's bank robberies, those are
a pretty hypro feltic.
Speaker 6: Well comparatively comparently right well, lower risk.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 11: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Did you ever feel like it almost gotta call it?
Speaker 5: Before I felt like I was gonna get caught every time?
Speaker 4: Right before, I never felt like I was gonna get
caught after.
Speaker 2: Just like before, I would always usually in the planning stage,
I was usually convinced that was the way it was
gonna do, not always the extremely lucky person. I guess
you could say so, I just uh always had visions
of that.
Speaker 13: That would be what happened.
Speaker 3: I think the one band cock go in there being
off duty cop or.
Speaker 11: Whatever.
Speaker 3: But that didn't. I mean, I it's your preparation. I
think you described you that which I you were willing to.
Speaker 2: Take that risk and right well, to a certain extent.
I think that's why, because I didn't do it anything
really impulsively. I think that's part of the reason why
up until recently I was able.
Speaker 3: To put things off until what I would think of
as a more opportunity time to do it, or lower
risks or whatever.
Speaker 14: But like I say, twenty twenty hindsight, none of what
I did it was really that low risk. So but
you did things to minimize the risk, right, Yeah, that I.
Speaker 3: Would always pretend to think of things in the worst
case scenario type of things.
Speaker 5: How would you describe your level of planning.
Speaker 3: Before, like the couriers or something? Not very good on
that cause it wasn't very specific. What about for upstate anymore? Temperately? No,
that was that was very That trip was very specific.
And how would you describe your level of planning I
didn't have.
Speaker 2: I in general it was good. Yeah, I guess it
was about the same as.
Speaker 4: As like the Vermont uh couriers.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 4: The only difference was I had more plan like I
have reasons for being there on the careers, cause.
Speaker 2: I had the things that I would just plan to
do right, So there was a tighter timeline.
Speaker 3: And but New York was just a triras. Yeah, I
think New York was.
Speaker 2: It may have been a stop or two before I
got to New York, but there was uh like once
I got to New York.
Speaker 3: I think that was pretty specific.
Speaker 2: But not just New York, but that whole area that
was You were there do open range kind of thing,
you know, like open range like hunting.
Speaker 10: Like you were looking right like you did you m
so you know you knew e was it every state
you were gonna go to?
Speaker 3: Or you just drove around? What you said, you went
through lots of states. Do you remember all the states
you went through?
Speaker 2: I don't remember specifically, but I could guess just because
I know the routes I normally take when I'm there.
Speaker 3: I think I remember which a driver or guy flew into.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I I would just be guessing you though,
just like I say, there's high points, you know.
Speaker 4: Certain places I know that I was in betweens, not
so much.
Speaker 11: Was it?
Speaker 5: And then what about what about planning, like the washing
to the state when you when you had your boat
out you remember those highly planned organized.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Washington was a lot easier in a lot of
ways because.
Speaker 4: Once I lived out in the Bay, I knew all.
Speaker 2: Of Washington pretty well, and except I was so isolated
out there. Once you drive past Port Angelis, it's like
here in the world anyway.
Speaker 5: So what's that whole park. There's a whole set of
mountains right there, right that separates in them bay from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Olympic. Well, there's the Olympic Grange Is. There's
mountains everywhere in there. But you don't really have to
go over any mountain passes.
Speaker 5: Or anything to Seattle, but right right, No, not to.
Speaker 2: Get but there is that you aparkment or oh yeah,
this area, Yeah, there was. Once I had the boat,
it was uh, by then, I was pretty much coasting
on my job, so I would take off.
Speaker 3: For long weekend zone, you know, and.
Speaker 4: I my accountability was pretty low at that time.
Speaker 3: I don't think I had mkay.
Speaker 4: I mean, I knew Kimberly, but you know, it wasn't
like it was just me with you.
Speaker 3: In the embanks.
Speaker 5: So it was the hard to disappear every day, right,
and she.
Speaker 2: Was I was pretty young then, so she w most
more often than not, she just stayed in the abay
with babysitters and stuff.
Speaker 5: When you were in Vermont, you described that there was
a guy who you would seen get out of a
car and go.
Speaker 3: Into a hotel.
Speaker 10: You know that you under grounds the yellow bulls clicking yeah, yeah,
and but then you then it ended up being in
the courrier's house.
Speaker 5: So that seems like, well, there was some planning, but
then that wasn't I mean, you you that was a
dramatic different kind of that was a dramatic change from
not really I mean.
Speaker 10: No, well you could see what you were getting into
with the guy, You didn't really know what you were
getting into going.
Speaker 3: Into the house kind of blind. I mean you had
what you thought was there.
Speaker 4: Well that's true to an extent, but I knew.
Speaker 3: I knew enough about what was in the house that
it was more than likely it would work.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just need a reset. I have needed one
desperately lately. So maybe you move or redesign your bedroom,
you buy a new mattress, or just decide you want
your home to feel more put together when you're starting fresh.
Some things, though, are non negotiable, and your bed is
one of them, and Bowling Branch is here to help.
My bed is my favorite place. It's where I relax,
it's where I sleep, where I reset. It's sometimes where
I lazily order takeout and eat from bed while watching
the Housewives. All this to say, your bed is a
healing place, and if you're upgrading your space, you shouldn't
be carrying over old bedding that's already worn out, especially
when Bowl and Branch creates everything you need to make
your bed feel finished. Signature sheets, supportive pillows, cozy blankets,
and luxurious comforters, all crafted from high quality, organic materials.
And when everything on your bed works together, the entire
room instantly feels more polished. And I will tell you
that very first night after putting my Bowl and Branch
sheets on the bed felt like a hotel level upgrade.
I started with new sheets, which came in a beautiful
slate gray, and their waffle blanket, which is so cozy
that I end up wearing it around the house as
often as I do sleeping underneath it. My sleep is better.
I'm more comfortable and the sheets get softer every time
you wash them. Get twenty percent off your first order
plus free shipping during their Memorial Day sale at bolanbranch
dot com. Slash True Crime BS with code true Crime BS.
That's Bowlin Branch b O L L A N D
B R A n c H dot com slash true
Crime BS code true Crime BS to get twenty percent
off Bowlandbranch dot com slash true Crime BS code true
Crime BS exclusions apply.
Speaker 3: Is that something new for you if that's all you
got to you? Yes? And no.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I've broke into a lot of houses,
but I'm not like.
Speaker 3: Sy. That was kind of.
Speaker 2: You know, that's like a combination of a bank robbery
and I don't know like how.
Speaker 3: You do that kind of home invading or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: That you know, that animal itself becomes kind of an
adrenaline rush, I guess, regardless of the outcome. But was
that a new kind of adrenaline rush for you to No,
it's you know, it's too much like a bank or something.
Speaker 3: But I mean taking people from their house, alright, Yeah,
that was.
Speaker 9: Pretty It was stupid.
Speaker 5: I was gonna say a little well, stupid, isn't. It
wasn't I was wanting knew stupid was you know, goes
without saying.
Speaker 3: I mean even from my perspective, I know it's stupid.
From a perspective, even from my perspective, that's.
Speaker 9: Kind of stup good.
Speaker 4: But no, well, yeah, because the issue the the there's
just too many unknowns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's better if you control the whole situation from
start to finish, Like you control the location and if
you you know, wait at a location.
Speaker 2: Long enough, you and control who else is involved in
the situation.
Speaker 3: Or is it you go into someone's house.
Speaker 2: You don't even know if like, for example, if the
car grounds or or something.
Speaker 3: Right, there's just a lot of aspects to it.
Speaker 15: Unpredictable, but definitely no, it's when I was boring.
Speaker 3: Well, that's why it's gonna out.
Speaker 5: It seems like you were highly organized, that's what you
were talking about in land, right, But then going into
someone's house is a big unknown, right you talked about before,
you know, like yeah, being basically like stalking out of
a road or something like that, so you can basically
choose who comes by, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean if you're in a remote location, that's.
Speaker 2: Statistic even got a lot better odds, especially nowadays everybody's
got cell phones.
Speaker 3: And more people you go around, more risky round. How
many houses would you say you broke into, like total.
Speaker 4: Starting man ever, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, at least twenty or three. But people not home.
Speaker 4: Not usually No, but you have never with that at ten?
Speaker 10: So you have broken in houses with people home other
than the courriers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a purple, but it's more of blake. No.
Speaker 4: The one time that happened, I don't think I took anything,
but it was did.
Speaker 5: You get did you leave?
Speaker 3: No? Oh you found out they were home.
Speaker 4: It was I don't make a very good cat bird.
Speaker 3: H'm too big of a glad word wards creak too much.
But it was more of a.
Speaker 11: No.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about doing that, doing something else.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 3: Obviously when I broke in, I knew there was someone there.
I was thinking about other things. But I you know,
situation wasn't right, and it wasn't.
Speaker 4: Wasn't as a feeling I guess once I got inside
was so you just left?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 11: What? What?
Speaker 3: What did you see that you didn't like? Too big?
That's one thing that you but you know that was
when you were before, so put in there three hundred
pounder or how many banks. I haven't really done that
many banks.
Speaker 7: I don't tell them.
Speaker 2: You had to stand out what the lakers.
Speaker 11: And I didn't think you had a saw that you
had a note.
Speaker 3: I yeah, I did have a note on that one.
I don't even know why that.
Speaker 11: You haven't wanna go along with it, but.
Speaker 3: There was well, there were more.
Speaker 2: I walked through the door. I wasn't even for sure
I was gonna rob the place cause I was kind
of uh amped up anyway at that time, so.
Speaker 3: I uh, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I walked through the door and there were a
lot of people so that I pulled my gun out.
Speaker 3: But then I already had the note, and I was like,
this doesn't make sense. I've already got the gun out.
Speaker 11: There's literally a picture where you've got note in one
hilding gun the other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was. I was very undecided when I started.
What does that mean?
Speaker 13: Well, I just yeah, I just wasn't sure.
Speaker 3: There was the whole range of options that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I at the very least I
would have walked up to the counter with a note,
but just the situation when.
Speaker 3: I walked through the door, it seemed like there were
a lot of people, and I thought it and there were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember exactly what I was thinking that
made me pull the gun, but there was I know
one of 'em was.
Speaker 3: There were quite a few people, and not all of
them were behind the way the bank was set up.
Speaker 2: Not all of 'em were behind the teller's counter, so
it wouldn't been easy for someone that jumped me from behind, potentially,
I don't know.
Speaker 3: Do you remember what the note said? No, probably the
standard stuff like you know, no by packs and the
textbooks stand the text.
Speaker 10: Book, Yeah, poor Man's Bank or every note.
Speaker 2: No, I yeah, I was never oh cause I went
in there.
Speaker 3: When I went in that bank, I think I had
all my guns. I know I had anyway, I yeah,
I was. But at the same time, it wasn't. Uh
that wasn't a.
Speaker 2: Highly planned or sticked out bank robbery because uh that was.
Speaker 3: That wasn't the main reason I was in that area.
Was that before or after you killed?
Speaker 11: Personally?
Speaker 5: It was after after, so you're pretty amped up. Do
you punch yourself more amped up afterwards?
Speaker 3: Or Yeah?
Speaker 16: In a lot of ways, yeah, it was kind of uh, get.
Speaker 4: Like the invincibility complex kind of goes up.
Speaker 3: For reality sets back end, so.
Speaker 5: Kay, but so nothing any banks?
Speaker 11: So not?
Speaker 3: Then what was it?
Speaker 5: Convenience stores, corner markets, podeggers.
Speaker 13: No, I'm about.
Speaker 3: Believe it or not. Most of the things I've done
haven't know.
Speaker 11: We been for.
Speaker 3: Moneys right now.
Speaker 2: Remember that it's hard to make that defense when cause
they did get quite a bit stuff.
Speaker 3: That's not really.
Speaker 13: The whole more of you a.
Speaker 2: Drowning, Yeah, that's when it was like side benefam more
than a dozen or less than a doesn't banks?
Speaker 3: How it's that's doesn't.
Speaker 5: And how long you mentioned that your drenal in the control?
How how long do you think you could go between
do you dren the Russias control?
Speaker 4: It's pretty variable, but you know, I can say in
the last couple of years, or.
Speaker 2: I was always able to before, to.
Speaker 3: Refocus on.
Speaker 2: Daily activities, if you will, and sometimes get pretty side
tracked by you know, whatever was going.
Speaker 3: On, projects or whatever, but it always comes back. Could always.
Speaker 10: The time did make it worse living up here in
the where the work slowed down in the winter and
got dark in the winter and had the lead and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was I'd say Alaska definitely accelerated my outlook
on life current.
Speaker 10: What if so you've been we're active since two thousand
seven or so then prior to that.
Speaker 1: Right, I am back to tell you about Quints, my
new favorite place to shop for apparel, lifestyle, and essentially everything. Lately,
I've been more intentional about what I wear from day
to day, leaning into pieces that feel easy, comfortable, and
still put together in stylish. It just makes getting dressed simpler,
especially during this weird time of year where some days
it's thirty five and some days it's eighty, and some
days it's warm and dry, and some days it's wet
and miserable. Quince has been my go to. The fabrics
feel elevated, the fits are clean, and everything just works
without needing to overthink it. Quince has all the wardrobe
staples for spring, like one hundred percent European linen shorts
and shirts from thirty four dollars. They're lightweight, breathable, and comfortable,
but still look super put together and clean. One hundred
percent Pema cotton teas with the softness that has to
be felt. Those are my favorite. I love a basic
tea that I can just layer over, especially in the spring.
Quince is So that's awesome that in the last week
I bought two rain jackets from my trip to Iceland,
my partner bought shoes and sheets, and my two good
friends bought Caviare for their housewarming party. Quints truly has
it all, and everything is priced fifty to eighty percent
less than what you'd find at similar brands because Quins
works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman,
so you're getting premium materials without the markup. Refresh your
every day with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quints
dot com slash tc bs for free shipping on your
order and three hundred sixty five day returns now available
in Canada too. That's q u i ncee dot com
slash tc bs for free shipping and three hundred sixty
five day returns quints dot com slash TCBs.
Speaker 3: What it is? Sorry that feeling since I've in Alaska?
Speaker 5: No, when did you When did you first feel like
you know?
Speaker 7: You at adrenaline rush?
Speaker 3: How old were you at first started?
Speaker 16: Oh?
Speaker 3: I sho.
Speaker 2: I started breaking into houses when I was thirteen fourteens.
As soon as I got into guns.
Speaker 5: Basically, I start breakings and I was in the fire
quite a while before that, so that was just like sight.
Speaker 3: Oh, well, were you when your first burnt something down?
Speaker 4: Well, that's what you're counting.
Speaker 2: I no, the first thing I burned down was a trailer,
so I was about the same, maybe like fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, pir winging after years.
Speaker 5: No, it something you weren't supposed to burn down, K
like the sides of my eyebrows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 11: I no, I was.
Speaker 3: I started a forest fire once by accident.
Speaker 17: That was by.
Speaker 3: Accident, but it was kind of one of those things.
I was not.
Speaker 2: Sorry that I'm gonna after it happened, cause it was
pretty impressive.
Speaker 3: You don't wanna get the force.
Speaker 4: Guys involved in it still be all over it. Were
letting a bill for that, my dad the drain.
Speaker 3: No, it's.
Speaker 4: That, I mean out I was, fires were nothing.
Speaker 3: That's like.
Speaker 2: I start fires, you know, and pretty much every time
I go out to camp, and they generally I wouldn't
start the whole forest on fire.
Speaker 3: That was never my intention. I'm kind of outdoorsy person,
so I actually enjoy the force.
Speaker 12: But I would, you know, if I found like old
buildings and stuff that I thought I could get away
of burning without anyone worrying too much about it.
Speaker 3: Again, that's almost like a public service, So that that's
something you've done.
Speaker 5: Did you ever use a fire and power up a
crime burn something?
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, that's like a leader burglar.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh that was that house just need to
be burned? What was it? Tip needed to be burned
in the house that.
Speaker 9: St h.
Speaker 10: Burn houses up with bodies in 'em.
Speaker 18: Yeah, no, I don't want. I don't wanna.
Speaker 3: What. I don't know. That's something that you're thinking about. Yeah,
definitely thinking about something well, changing something not gonna share
that's going on around town.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thinking some nice sculptures outside a museum.
Speaker 7: Really, what I wouldn't sit a nice something like that?
Speaker 6: As if there are creepy things without moose with without
any hands or yeah, you know legs they.
Speaker 3: F moose don't have hands. Well let me tell you
these stats. You should have hands. That creeps me out.
I like looking at 'em. You might like 'em. Yeah,
I can always go buy on the way back home
coming back to jail see 'em. But together you'll concur
there or not art.
Speaker 7: But if you started a broad turn out, yeah, right, right.
Speaker 11: The other the last thing we wanted to talk with
you about is going back to We had told you
that when stuff is gonna start to happen, that we
would bring it to you first. We got kind of
sidetracked on some other stuff. We mentioned several times now.
Speaker 19: That there's pressure from above, pressure from above, and.
Speaker 11: Like you said, I think you said earlier that we've
got an understanding, and I think you're right. I think
everybody in this room has an understanding of where we're at,
what we're doing.
Speaker 3: Short of real progress, right, they.
Speaker 7: Do progresses names and bodies, right. I mean, that's it's
pretty simple.
Speaker 11: One of the things that we have not done that
had this been any other case and had it not
progressed probably the way that it had, that we would
have done sooner were searches of your property in New
York and then uh more thorough search at Kimberly's house.
Those are things that didn't happen early on that would
have happened.
Speaker 10: Because things changed as we found things out. You know,
in our initial search at at the house, we didn't
know things that we found out later, and we didn't
go back looking for things and getting things.
Speaker 3: Even the things that you.
Speaker 10: Told us were there because of the cooperation that we had,
and we knew that there was something you didn't want
to happen, even though we were getting pressure to do that.
Speaker 3: So we were those are the.
Speaker 10: Kind of things that moving forward are without real progress
or eminent.
Speaker 11: And speaking specifically about other crimes, we're not we're not
talking about Samantha.
Speaker 7: We're talking about other crimes.
Speaker 2: You're saying you're gonna try and get a search on
for Kimberly's house based on.
Speaker 10: What well, we know that we know that the there's
things that you took from the Elite A flyer there.
Speaker 3: You told us about that. Well, let yeah, I don't
think you should be there.
Speaker 5: I mean, they got search warrants for those two locations
that they have to go forward on.
Speaker 3: So they wanted to make sure. We wanted to make
sure our said, these.
Speaker 5: Guys got you gotta tell 'em.
Speaker 3: That's gonna happen, cause we told you we would tell
you that.
Speaker 11: These are not things that we were pushing for by
any means.
Speaker 7: These were things that we're pushing. We're being pushed.
Speaker 11: From, like we said, folks that were not in this room,
but folks that we answer to. So we have search warrants.
They're going to happen. I don't know when they're going
to happen, but we have 'em. They've been signed, the
judge signed 'em already.
Speaker 7: Who's doing the search FBI.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 10: But as you can imagine, that's it. When that happens,
that's gonna draw some some media attention, you can. We're
gonna keep it as small scale as we can.
Speaker 11: What h comments are gonna be, no comment, I'm gonna
all that, but.
Speaker 3: It's people are gonna and me is gonna see it.
Neighbors are gonna see it.
Speaker 10: If if if we can't mean, we're gonna do our best.
Speaker 3: To keep it small.
Speaker 11: But we can control our part. We can't control what
other people see basically or what they what they do
with that. But the comments in terms of New York
and in terms of here, it's nobody's gonna be commenting anything.
Nobody's gonna be tying you to you know, saying is
real keys to this or is your keys to that?
Or confirming anything right here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what are you looking for? Let me for
I don't evidence of other comments is real. They're just
yeah right, they held.
Speaker 10: And we're gonna we're gonna coperate even know enough about
my history, not.
Speaker 11: Whether you're not gonna find anything in that house, and
that may be, that may be.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can tell you.
Speaker 16: I've already told you earlier time.
Speaker 10: So yeah, we're gonna work with Kimberly to make it
as inc you know, as as convenient as we can,
to the extent that she'll you know.
Speaker 2: Let us So I mean, well, I hope so, I mean,
I would hope you keep it to have an impact, because.
Speaker 4: That's can I have a direct effect on. And I'm
still in contact with Kimberly.
Speaker 5: M Yeah, well we try, we really try her attorney
to to ask her to come in so we could
tell her if these things were eminent, and uh, the
message back from her attorney again we're talking about searches
for other crimes on going investigations.
Speaker 3: The message back from her attorney was, you know, she
just wanted didn't tell her why we wanted to talk.
She just wants to be over We we wanted to,
we wanted to come.
Speaker 10: In this and try to you know, talk to her
and let her know so that we would try to
be nice about it.
Speaker 5: Cause I really didn't have a really good impression in
the beginning.
Speaker 3: Of the You know, you could say that.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so so we we are we were if you
were trying to change that course, but obviously a bad
taste in her mouth. Well, yeah, now she has an
attorney involved, and how that goes?
Speaker 11: Right? She you know, but she's she's not wanting to
talk with us so or meet with us.
Speaker 7: Well, and I'm not even saying talk with us.
Speaker 11: But in order for us, yea, in order for us
to be able to do this in a way, the
way that we wanted to do was be able to
sit down with her and go over it with her
so that we can make it as minimal as possible
have the least amount of impact on her.
Speaker 4: And so what asking her about where I keep my stuff?
Speaker 7: For something that's helpful.
Speaker 11: I mean, that's a pretty basic question that's helpful.
Speaker 10: What's yours, what's not yours, what's hers, what's not hers?
Speaker 3: Those kind of things, you know what I mean that
we're still gonna do that.
Speaker 7: We're still gonna try to do that.
Speaker 11: But our first attempt wasn't received well, but that's still
that's still our our intent is to to do that.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 11: We just.
Speaker 7: Servious alright, and then New York is a SA.
Speaker 11: New York's a property out there, and it's gonna be
FBI out there doing the same thing. It's not gonna
be locals that are involved in it, same marching orders
on their end. No comment that kind of stuff. We
certainly will keep you posted, let you know when and
if there's anything that's taken.
Speaker 3: When when it's done?
Speaker 7: Alright, alright, any questions.
Speaker 17: I leave anything out that you can think of.
Speaker 3: No, I think we're good. Kay, what about members like
to do? Now, let's see what happens with that we've
been holding off then yeah, you know, tell 'em when
think we can make a progress. And that's why we've
been coming over there more frequently. And right, oh, I can.
Speaker 4: I can see a couple of reasons why you would.
Speaker 3: Need to do the.
Speaker 2: Search warrants, but I'm saying, you know, needing to do them,
and then the reality of doing.
Speaker 3: Them can be there can be a lot of sure
mm we realize that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I don't like, I say that's I don't understand.
Speaker 9: You gotta.
Speaker 4: Push the paperwork, but the reality, you know, that's something different.
Speaker 3: So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 9: Hm.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think it's a pretty rare courtesy that
they came in here and kind of just wanted to
share it with you even before they searched. That has
never happened in in my years of law enforcement ever.
Speaker 3: Right, I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate shuttles in 'em.
Speaker 4: But you know, like I say, the reality is I
would have found out.
Speaker 3: About it regardless. So oh yeah, yeah, we know that.
But it was we told you that, you know, right
before it even happened.
Speaker 7: And agreement we have.
Speaker 5: Something that you know waiting developed is from emberone else's perspective,
there hasn't been a lot of progress yet, and.
Speaker 6: I guess it was, you know, a small part of
our hope that we could so somehow stay these things
off by you know, giving somebody more progress and really
can more import that.
Speaker 9: I don't.
Speaker 3: Here's what we're doing, here's the other things. Let's just
hold off on things. But like that's worked so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, right, you know, like like those those
cards so many times anything because they because they yeah,
ask the part of lesson we were getting information.
Speaker 17: So alright, questions anything, Okay, So Jeff and I will
be over at some point, like.
Speaker 19: I said, we don't have We don't know really what
or when we're gonna do this, but we'll certainly let
you know, alright, if anything's taken and all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 3: Okay, FU sleeping around it up here. You gotta take
a lead or anything for you.
Speaker 4: If I have a good things, well I don't go back
to stap.
Speaker 13: It is ten forty something.