Retrospective 1: The Ignition

To celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various investigations, and in the world that impacted these important episodes and their podcasts. You’ll learn how Josh started podcasting, how he started investigating Israel Keyes, some hilarious and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable and personal stories.

We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production. Hey everyone, this summer,

we are celebrating the ten year anniversary of my podcasting career.

I can't believe it's been ten years. Over the next

three months, I'll be sharing ten of the episodes that

I feel best inspired, progressed, and or changed my life

in podcasting, So the episodes that guided us to where

we are now. And in each re sharing, you'll get

brand new, behind the scenes information about what was happening

in life, in my various investigations, and in the world

that impacted these very important episodes. You'll learn how I

started podcasting, how I started investigating Israel, Keys, some hilarious

and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable

and personal stories I've never shared publicly. You'll get to

see and hopefully reflect on your own history. How so

much of what has happened in my life and in

each of the shows I've produced or participated in, has

coalesced into and molded who I am and what the

podcasts and investigations are today. And for our first episode,

we'll start at the beginning, or at least a version

of the beginning ten years ago, shortly after moving to Brooklyn,

New York. From Seattle. I found myself at a crossroads.

I'd spent the previous six years living a fairly fulfilling

and successful life in Seattle. After spending most of my

twenties bouncing around the country chasing various dreams, ideals, notions,

and sometimes even guys because we're all really stupid in

our twenties, I ended up in San Francisco, New Orleans, Portland, Cambodia,

and back to San Francisco, before eventually moving to Seattle,

a city I had never even been to, for what

was at the time my dream job. I worked in

branding and inspiration in fashion. I had various cloying titles

like the Curator of Cool or inspiration Manager. I was

essentially in charge of creating environments that would inspire the designers.

In twenty eleven, I even took the design team to

Nia Bay for a weekend to learn weaving techniques and

tribal traditions from the Macaw, a year before the world

would know who Israel Keys was. I ended up leaving

the fashion industry after a two a m work crisis.

The entire team was in a conference room. Someone was

crying in a corner. Someone was screaming. People hadn't slept

an eye and I thought all this for khaki pants.

So after fashion wore me out, I eventually ended up

at a nonprofit healthcare company, where I found myself thriving.

I believed in what I was doing. By this point,

I'd never even listened to a podcast, let alone thought

it might one day be my most fulfilling and longest

term career. I fell in love with Seattle, and even

more so the surrounding areas I'd frequent, the Olympic Peninsula,

the Snoqualmie River Valley, Scadget Valley. It was one of

the most beautiful places I'd ever lived, and I was

ready to finally settle down there in Washington State. And

then I fell in a different kind of love. I

met my partner, who had spent his entire life living

in Washington State. As someone who'd only ever lived in

one place for the most part, he wanted to try

living somewhere else, a bigger city. And as someone who

was two years into his apparel design career, that bigger

city he wanted to go to was one I loathed,

New York. So four years we debated where to live.

As our relationship progressed, we debated whether to stay or go,

whether there was some sort of compromise. As best we

could try, there really wasn't one, but Andrew did eventually

come up with an idea, an idea that I'd much

later realize was actually a long con one I didn't

think he was capable of. What if we bought a

camper van, moved into it, and traveled the country until

we ran out of money or found a place we

both loved a few months later, we bought a forty

connoline van from some hippies who communicated by making bird

noises at one another. During our renovation of the van,

we found secret and very strange love notes they'd written

to each other and hidden throughout the interior. So found

that they forgot to tell us that the van had

been salvaged and it was going to be nearly impossible

to ensure or resell at any given time in the future.

In fact, all these years later, the van is hiding

behind some trees in our backyard. Classy, I know. We

took the van up to Port Townshend on the Olympic

Peninsula to work on it, and we quickly learned that

we don't thrive as a couple in construction environments. So

Andrew worked on the van and I explored the Peninsula.

By this time, it was twenty fifteen, and I was

now keenly aware of and terrified and fascinated by Israel Keys.

So I spent three months driving all over the peninsula,

learning everything I could about this man and all the

places he had been. It's where my obsession began. Andrew

literally built a new life for us, and I literally

supplanted myself in the life of Israel Keys, not knowing

that I too was building a life for us. By

May of twenty fifteen, we set off on our van

life adventure, and I ended up accidentally spending the next

six months traveling to the rest of the places Israel

Keys had been. As we drove from Seattle to Cordelaine,

I listened to my very first podcast. It was This

American Life, and I was immediately enthralled. I'd obviously heard

about podcasts, but my general understanding was that they were

either weird trivia shows or just a bunch of straight

white men telling each other exactly, or a combination of

the two. But this, this was storytelling and it was

inspiring and strangely healing. We spent six months, forty four states,

four Canadian provinces, and a lifetime of lessons and experiences.

On the road. We listened to one hundreds of hours

of podcasts and Visibilia, Radio Lab, Generation, Why Serial, and

so on. I went through a short term Serial fixation

where I was convinced that if I listened to the

entire series enough times, I, by myself with Excel, could

solve the case. A friend of mine would even mock me, saying,

you think you, a writer with a computer can find

out stuff the FBI hasn't been able to, And then

we both laughed at how stupid that sounded. We even

spent the penultimate day of our trip in Baltimore as

I forced Andrew to do drive time tests. And then

in early November of twenty fifteen, we landed in New

York and then ended up in New York, and I

hated it there, even when I tried desperately to convince

myself that I didn't. As it turns out, NYC is

not great for CPTSD. I couldn't find work. Most of

the nonprofit healthcare companies were based in Albany. It was

winter and frigid out, and Andrew was already working at

a small heritage apparel company, and soho, so I was

alone and depressed and freezing. I had been working on

a book about our trip, but as the trip got

further and further away from me and New York felt

more and more ever present, I felt less inspired. I

had been daydreaming about this town in northern Michigan that

we fell in love with while living on the road, Pataski.

It was this charming lakeside village full of vibrant people,

hip shops and restaurants, and an odd number of people

in their twenties. Considering how remote and tiny the town was,

I decided that I wanted to try to produce a

This American Lifestyle pot cast episode about Potoski, and that

if I was good at it and enjoyed it, maybe

instead of writing a book about our adventure, I'd create

a podcast about it, as I'm prone to do when

I have an idea that I'm excited about and invested in.

I didn't tell anyone what I was doing. I just

started writing and reaching out to locals in Potoski. The

story slowly came together and then evolved and came back together,

as stories often do. It was twenty sixteen, and much

to my eventual shock, Trump was about to get elected.

America was as divisive as ever. The economy was suffocating,

It was harder and harder for young people to actually

make a life for themselves. It wasn't hand to mouth,

especially in the big cities they once flocked to. And

in Potoski, Michigan, I found an interesting convergence of all

these factors. Young people were returning to the town that

raised them, but bringing with them big ideas and culture,

and for better or worse, depending on who you asked,

the small and traditional Rockwellyan town was being infused with

more urban and progressive ideas. And so that was the

theme of my very first podcast episode, how do we

blend often competing ideas of what we think is right?

And that simple question became the basis for Our Americana,

my first podcast series. Instead of being about our trip

across the country, it became about community. How community is built, evolves, struggles, adapts, survives.

What happens when students take over a school, who steps

in when a town is without a police force, What

happens when progress harms history? And how do you bring

a divided village together. The answer to that question, it

turns out, is a baby orca. So as we begin

this retrospective into my ten years of podcasting, I thought

it apt to start where my journey began, on the

open road. In this twenty sixteen episode I produced for

Our Americana about people like Andrew and I who quit

their lives to see America. The episode was originally titled

Van Life. But before we start, I am so goddamn

excited to announce our next Trova trip. Think for a minute,

imagine joining me Charlie from Crime Lines and a small

group of studio boath and listeners to talk podcasting, Bravo, Israel, Keys,

true crime, and life while I don't know, swimming with

sea lions and turtles, meeting tortoises and penguins, and sipping

cocktails on the equator in January. Yes, we are going

to the Galapagos Islands from January eleventh to the seventeenth.

We are island hopping in the Galapagos on this once

in a lifetime vacation, and tickets go on sale two

day and the first eight people get two hundred dollars off,

So click on the link in the show notes and

come spend your winter with me and some new like

minded friends in the tropical Galapagos Islands. And if that's

not your speed, we are hosting an anniversary party here

in the Berkshires over the weekend of September twenty fifth,

right before True Crime Bullshit returns with season eight. We'll

be joined by a bunch of special guests for live shows,

studio sessions, previews, behind the scenes, tours and talks, cocktail parties,

and some of my favorite Berkshire based activities. So you'll

get all the joys of podcasting, but also get to

go out into this beautiful area and enjoy what I

love most about it. For example, imagine going wine tasting

in the Berkshires with Wine and Crime. Over the next

few weeks, I'll be announcing a very stacked lineup of

special guests along with the weekend's incredible agenda. Tickets will

go on sale June twenty fifth, but are available for

pre sale now on Patreon. And now let's get back

to where it all started. A nineteen ninety two to

forty ConA line van a very shitty thirty five dollars microphone,

not a single editing ear, and a persistent chirping fire

alarm in our crappy bedstye apartment. Enjoy the journey.

Speaker 2: I knew that this trip was going to happen because

I felt numb to my life, and I knew that

I wanted to feel alive, and even if that was.

Speaker 3: Hardship, I wanted to feel that.

Speaker 2: And I have found my life filled with so many

emotions that I've never that I never felt sitting.

Speaker 3: At my desk.

Speaker 2: I'm not good at sitting still, and I'm not good

at sitting within a feeling that is uncomfortable. And I

think that that is a huge issue for so many people,

is that it's not that we numb ourselves, but we

kind of numb ourselves with stimulation. When I was living

in Seattle, I was constantly running around, you know, going

to see all my friends and you see my family,

and constantly being booked, you know, with the littlest things,

and I was really kind of numbing myself to feeling,

you know, something not good. And on this trip, I've

really had to learn that there are going to be

moments every day that I feel really alone, and I

feel really sad that I'm not sharing this trip with someone,

but that sitting within those moments kind of makes the

rest of it all worth it. And I've really been

able to find a sense of peace, and I'm still

working on it, you know, like are still called my

friends like crying every once in a while. But I

think the biggest lesson I've learned is that there's a

big difference between you know, feeling sad, being sad, and

kind of giving into those emotions and just hopefully learning

that just because it doesn't feel good doesn't mean that

it's not okay.

Speaker 4: Our Americana is a weekly podcast where we explore small

towns across the country and get to know the people

who call them home. Join us as we had some

of our most unique and charming communities and talk to

the locals about their lives, their histories, their relationships, and

the stories that forever change them. Together, we'll discover how

a community comes together and how it adapts and involves

and faced with the unexpected, the controversial, the bizarre, and

the life changing moments. I'm Josh Hallmark and this.

Speaker 5: Is Our American.

Speaker 2: I'm Oh my gosh, there's Yeah, my favorite spots the

trip has been. There's a lot of different spots I

like for a lot of different reasons. Like I really

fell in love with Haynes, Alaska because that was kind

of like the start of the trip and it was

a great kind of launching point because I took the

inside passage very from Bellingham up to know and then

up to.

Speaker 6: Haines, Mendocino, California. We really love It's a great little town.

It's it's kind of touristic, definitely a little heart sat town. Yeah,

we definitely felt at home like we could we could

make a life there in Mendocino.

Speaker 7: I have loved the missions of San Antonio.

Speaker 4: Potoski, Michigan was our favorite town, and that's just below

the Macano Bridge.

Speaker 2: I loved McCarthy, Alaska, which is this small town where

only I think like twenty people live year round, but

it like just blossoms in the summer with seasonal workers.

Speaker 6: But I'd say our two favorite states would probably be

Oregon and Colorado, maybe the northern part of California.

Speaker 4: Coast and New Mexico. Michigan and North Carolina best states.

Speaker 2: So I think that in summary, Haynes, Alaska McCarthy, Alaska,

the Yukon in general, and now the Ice Fields Highway, inc.

Speaker 6: And Alberta, the whole, the whole, like Napa Valley, and

then like the coast right there after the wine countries.

It's awesome. I really like Steamboat Springs, Colorado too. Thought

that was a pretty bad place.

Speaker 8: Some valley I like some valley Idaho too, Yeah, catch

them some valleys.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. We spent I think five days in the Eup,

which was gorgeous. Like if I had to, I would

say that was probably the prettiest section of America that

we saw. Exactly a year ago, Andrew and I were

sipping a glass of wine in a winery on Lake

Ontario in the Niagara Valley Escarpment, Ontario's gorgeous, gorgeous wine

region that rivals Napa Valley. We were just about to

start our last week of our van life traveling in

the United States, so today I thought we'd check in

with four other people who have just started their van

life journeys, talk about how life on the road changes

you the way you see people in America and even

each other, and maybe inspire some of you to take

the plunge and live a life on the road that

will forever change you.

Speaker 2: Currently, I am in vans in Alberta, sitting in my van,

just parked outside of coffee shop using.

Speaker 3: Some Wi Fi.

Speaker 4: I miss those like weird little moments where you're kind

of doing things that feel totally normal in the context

of your life, but in the real world seem really creepy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like sleeping in front of like Walmart parking lots

and in the parking lots of restaurants, and weird things.

Speaker 4: Like about totally I remember like waking up in the

middle of the night walking from the Walmart parking lot

in to use the restroom and just being like, it's

so weird that this is a normal thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also super weird when you're in the car

and you have all the blinds closed and there's just

people like kind of walking past your car or commenting

on it because I have my solar panel on the outside,

so I hear a lot of people talking about my

car as I'm like laying down trying to take a nap.

Speaker 4: This is Alex. She is also from Seattle, and when

we first talked, she had been living the van life

for about four months, so.

Speaker 2: I had after college, moved to New Zealand. I had

gotten an internship in the South Pacific working in my field,

and this whole trip of kind of moving to New

Zealand kind of got formulated as I was living in

the South Pacific. And when I was there, I lived

out of a Ford Falcon, which I don't even think

they make those anywhere else in the world, and I

don't even think they make those in New Zealand anymore.

And I was living out of the car there in

a tent, and I was tenting every night, and it

was probably one of the happiest times of my life,

just living with absolutely minimal amenities, just pitching my tent

every night. And I started really contemplating that this life

was really possible, kind of living an alternative.

Speaker 3: Lifestyle like this.

Speaker 2: And I had seen a lot of bans in New

Zealand that had these epic conversions, and I just.

Speaker 3: Had such ban less than that.

Speaker 2: That was kind of when I started thinking even more so, Okay,

if I was.

Speaker 3: To do this full time, I really wanted a van.

Speaker 2: So I moved back to Seattle and got a job

working full time for the government, and it was a

really good job. It was just the dream job. I

was working with Marine mammal Acoustics. I had been living

in a city that I loved, that I knew, and

all my friends were there. So it was just this

really great kind of you know, I was living that

twenty something dream, you know, I had the ultimate job,

and kind of as time started to wear on and

one year turned into two years, and then two years

started turning into three years, I started getting this really

intense kind of gnawing and my heart that was like,

this isn't exactly what I want to do, you know.

I don't want to sleep walk every day to my

job to my work, you know. I was just sitting

in traffic going to yoga to find balance, like running there.

And it was just a life that I wasn't super

happy with living. And so I knew for about a

year that I wanted to quit my job and move

into a car.

Speaker 3: And so I knew that kind of like in the.

Speaker 2: Back of my mind, and as time kind of started

to continue, I realized that I couldn't not listen to

that that I was going to wake up with so

many regrets if I didn't do this.

Speaker 3: So once I got the van was.

Speaker 2: Really and the whole trip started to kind of like

come into my mind as being possible, and keeping in

mind that I had lived out of a tent previously

and found a lot of happiness and joy and fulfillment.

Speaker 3: That it was possible for me.

Speaker 2: So it took me about six months to tell my

boss that I was leaving, and I knew for.

Speaker 3: A little over a year, almost two years, I.

Speaker 2: Want to say, kind of like in the depths of

the night that I knew I wanted to leave.

Speaker 3: So I guess that kind of long story, not short.

Speaker 2: I knew that this trip was going to happen because

I felt numb to my life, and I knew that

I wanted to feel alive, and even if that was.

Speaker 3: Hardship, I wanted to feel that.

Speaker 2: And I have found my life filled with so many

emotions that I've never that I never felt.

Speaker 3: Fitting at my desk.

Speaker 4: So did you have like a vision for like where

you were going to end up when you left or

were you just kind of taken it day by day?

Speaker 2: So I knew I wanted to head north because I'm

romantic like that, you know, And so I was like,

I want to go north. I want to go to

Alaska and Alaska has always, I think, seemed like a

great destination for kind of the lost and the confused,

and I think that that attracts a lot of people

up there.

Speaker 3: And so I knew that I wanted to go north.

Speaker 2: I knew I want to go to Alaska, and I

knew I wanted to come into Canada, and so that

was kind of like where it just started.

Speaker 3: And I was like, I kind of just want to do.

Speaker 2: This big circle where I want to go Alaska, the Yukon,

British Columbia, Calgary, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and swing back

up through California. And I thought that this trip was

going to be about six months, and I'm about four

months in and I barely made it into Alberta. So

I don't think I'm going to finish or I don't

think the trip is going to change.

Speaker 3: It's changed a lot, which is great.

Speaker 2: And I got the best advice actually from a guy

who's also lived out of his car that I met

and volunteer park and he had been living on the

road for a few months as well, and he said,

don't let the idea of your plan or your itinerary

keep you from staying a place that you love, kind

of like don't think like, Okay, I need to get

to Denver or I have to get to banf Like

if you're somewhere that you really love and you really

love energy of the place you're in, like, don't rush

away from it because you think you have to be

somewhere else, because you don't.

Speaker 3: That's like the joy of this trip.

Speaker 2: So the trip has kind of melt molded more where

I had an initial idea of what I wanted to

look like, but now it's changed completely and I'm definitely

spending a lot more time in Canada than I had

initially planned on because Canada is amazing.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so interesting. That was our biggest mistake, and

it took us probably a good like month and a

half to kind of get over that, like we don't

need to rush through places like yeah, there's nowhere we

need to be, because we kept being like, Okay, we've

been here two days, we should go. We have all

these other places.

Speaker 2: See, yeah, and you get so much more when you

stay in a place for a longer period of time.

You know, you get such a better sense of the

energy of the town. And sometimes it's for better or worse,

you're gonna be stuck there. Like I was in and

out of Anchorage a lot, and I was there a

lot more than.

Speaker 3: I almost wanted to be.

Speaker 2: And now I know I don't really want to live

in Achorage, not that there's anything wrong with it, but

I just found out that that's not really a place

that I want to say, And then I kind of

had to rush out of other places that I really loved,

and I kind of regret that that I didn't take

more time in some smaller towns. I have been really

lucky though that I haven't really had any super issues

with safety, but I did recently, just like two nights ago,

where was that I was outside of Jazzer somewhere and I

pulled into this campground and I mean this was like

not even a sketchy situation, but for some reason, I

just like had to follow my gut. There was a

guy that like came around and was like, I'm the

firewood guy, and I'm like selling firewood to everyone, and

I'm like, okay, I don't need firewood, and he's like,

you really have the run of the camp to night

because no one else was in this campground.

Speaker 3: And I was like yeah, I do.

Speaker 2: And he's like last night there was lots of people

and he wasn't like it was a totally normal conversation,

like there was no sketchy vibes. And I fell asleep

pretty early that night, so I was super tired. And

I woke up at like ten thirty at night, and

it was pitch black darkout, which I hadn't been accustomed to,

because like it never gets dark in the North. And

I woke up and I was like, I need to move,

like I am scared, like the camp site I was in,

like if somebody would have blocked me and I wouldn't

have been able to easily.

Speaker 3: Move or move out, you know.

Speaker 2: And I woke up and I just like listened to

my gut and I moved and I found a great

camp to another great spot, like by a different trailhead.

And it was interesting because it was the first night

that I really woke up and I was like, I

have to listen to my voice and trust it because

I think that like, if something were bad to happen,

the only reason I didn't move my car was because

of a societal expectation that I was, you know, being irrational,

or that I was being kind of crazy and paranoid,

and it's like, no, you can't put those labels on safety,

especially when you're on the road.

Speaker 4: Like totally.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. We were in Ashville, and I think it was

like the only time where I felt actively threatened. And

we had checked into our campsite and then drove around

for the day and came back and we're watching a

movie and all of a sudden, someone started punching the

side of the van. Ah, so scary, yeah, And it

was like we were in a pretty isolate We were

in Ashville, but on the edge of town and it

was pretty isolated, and my partner like went out and

some guy who was wasted out of his mind in

a truck was like, you took my spot and we

were like, no, we reserved it, like we have the

marker in our name. And he was like I'm gonna

fucking kill you, and he was pussing and screaming, and

like my partner had to go get I think his

name was like Critter or animal. He was like the

guy I know, and he kind of like I guess,

de escalated it. And but all night I was just

staring through like the little slot between where like our

window shade and the top of the window were watching

this man in his truck being like I've seen way

too many episodes of Dateline. I know he's just in there,

like drinking and getting pissed off and he's going to

come out and like blow our brains out.

Speaker 2: But yeah, didn't happen, Like God, yeah, that's still super terrifying.

Speaker 3: I got woken up once with.

Speaker 2: A friend in like Crescent City, Oregon, at like three

in the morning by a cop, and for some reason

that was like really, it was like the best situation.

Speaker 3: Like the cop was super nice.

Speaker 2: He was like, you just can't camp here, and I

was like, this is parking, I'm not camping. And but

for some reason, like getting woken up, like there's nothing

more jarring than somebody like banging on your calm, you know.

Speaker 3: Because it's like it feels like an invasion almost, you know.

Speaker 4: Sure. What still surprises me all the time is we

I guess I hate admitting this, but I guess I

was a little cynical before I went on the trip,

and my idea of people, like Americans but also just

people is that they were assholes. Yeah, and we are

constantly like we always look back and we're like, we

only encountered like three assholes on the whole trip, and

everyone else was wonderful and accepting and open. And I

think that was like the greatest life lesson for me

is that, like, if you give people a chance, generally

they are wonderful, kind, open people.

Speaker 3: And they'll surprise you.

Speaker 2: And I think that's I was always amazed at how

much help people were willing to give, like to strangers,

and I found that a lot in my trip in

New Zealand and on this trip too, just like people

being super you know, kind just like helping me find

like a place to park, or like telling me the

best kind of like local spots and all that kind

of stuff.

Speaker 4: What's your favorite part.

Speaker 3: My favorite part of the trip is.

Speaker 2: These kinds of like moments when I'm driving and I

come around a corner and I just see something that

makes me slam on the brakes, and I think that

that's like my favorite thing is like being like what

is this? How could this so beautiful? And it's the

surprise of it. I think that's my favorite part, the

surprises that the road gives me.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I always kind of liked when like something happened

where we would like be stuck in a place like

we had to sit through two tropical storms, oh man,

and it seems so annoying because you're like, oh, I

want to get to where I'm going. We were stuck

in Tallahassee, Florida for a week, which is not a

fun place to be stuck. Yeah, but it was so

nice to just be like, like, there's nothing to do

in Tallahassee, so we just hung out in the RV

park and like relaxed and played cards and just kind

of checked out, which was so lovely.

Speaker 3: That sounds really nice.

Speaker 2: I'm really bad sometimes that like sitting still with that,

Like how I just like gave this whole like shpeel

about like sitting with like solitude, and like then like

there are the days that I'm like kind of not

stuck with that, you know, like I'm into town like

all day and I'm like i could just go sit

with my book in the park, and I'm like, oh,

I could go for a run, you know.

Speaker 4: Readapting to life afterwards is really challenging because you're so

used to moving all the time and everything's new all

the time, and then all of a sudden you're like

I'm stuck in this place and my life is the

same every single day, and it's challenging.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no idea what my kind of adaptation

to being back in the real quote the real world,

or like staying put.

Speaker 3: For a long time will look.

Speaker 9: Like.

Speaker 3: I think it's going to be really challenging.

Speaker 4: Are you going to go back to Seattle or.

Speaker 3: I don't think so?

Speaker 2: And I thought for a long time about that, like

going back to Washington in general, but I've always defaulted

back to Seattle in Washington because I'm really comfortable with it,

and my family's there and I'm very close to my family,

and so it's always just been kind of safe, you know.

Speaker 3: After college, I was like, I'll just come back to Seattle.

Speaker 2: And I kind of wanted to take moving back off

the table because it kind of then opened up opened

up more doors for me to see where I really

want to be versus where it's comfortable for me to be.

Speaker 3: And so I don't think I'll be back in Seattle,

but you never know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we I mean we kind of had different ideas.

My partner really wanted to move to New York afterwards

and I did not, so like the I guess the

surface thing was like maybe we'll find a town on

the way and fall in love with it and we'll

move there, and like that was such a fun way

to experience the trip, Like every town you stop and

could be a town that you lived in.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a million towns Zho that I want

to move to.

Speaker 3: So that's like now abouts my problem.

Speaker 2: I'm like, I've want to really want to work in

Seasonally and Haines, and then I want to move to Canada.

So there's now so many places that I kind of

want to move, So where actually end up will be interesting.

Speaker 4: I think, are you just going to keep going until

you run out of money?

Speaker 3: Yeah?

Speaker 2: Theoretically I think that I will start making decisions in.

Speaker 3: The late fall.

Speaker 2: Kind of Thanksgiving is when I'm kind of giving myself

a deadline to kind of figure a few things out,

because living in the van in the winter is really challenging.

And this past winter I took a van on a

bunch of ski trips and there was one weekend where

I was just me and a friend. We're kind of

stranded in a ski parking lot because like a blizzard

was moving through and we couldn't get down the mountain

and it was basically sleading on us the whole time.

Speaker 3: So we were trying to dry.

Speaker 2: Out all of our ski gear, like in the van

in front of the heater, and we couldn't really pop

the top because it was too cold if the top

was popped, And.

Speaker 3: So it was that.

Speaker 2: It was kind of the moment where I was like, Okay,

I don't know if I could live in this full

time in the winter. So I guess the creature comfort

I would miss there is a broom to dry out clothing.

But so I think come late fall, I'll start figuring

out maybe a place to migrate to for the winter time.

And I have not given up on the idea of

like moving to Australia and doing working holiday there, kind

of like what I did in New Zealand, and that'd

be the perfect time because it's somewhere down there in

the winter.

Speaker 3: So just keep the dream alive.

Speaker 4: I mean, that's the thing. We realized I was running

out of money, and Andrew was like, don't worry, you know,

I just I want to stay on the road. But

after Columbus Day, we've realized it's harder and harder to

find RV parks to stay in. Oh yeah, and Walmart

works great in the summer when you don't need to

be plugged in, but like in the winter, you know,

you need to be running a heater.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have a solar panel, so I think

in winter it would be even harder because there's not

as much sun and it's not as bright. It could

be really challenging. Yes, and RV parks are really expensive.

Speaker 4: Oh totally.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I'm like shocked, like whenever I drive by them, and

like some of them are really grow like you're just

like right next to your neighbor and I'm like, man,

you guys are charging a lot to basically be in

a parking lot with an outlet.

Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny, like we the RV park thing, like

there was such a huge variance, Like we stayed in Wance.

Some that felt like resorts nice, Like there was one

where they would do like mourning. It was in Arizona

and every morning they would do like a rodeo in

the parking lot.

Speaker 3: It's so magical.

Speaker 4: And then one in Michigan they had foam parties every night.

So yeah, it was just like there was one that

did karaoke, Like it's so gimmicky, but in the most

delightful way.

Speaker 2: I cannot imagine an art like the people like in general,

the people that I've met that like live in our

the RV parks, like the retirees, like I would just

pay a hot dollar to see them at a foam party.

Speaker 4: It's just I don't know, like r V culture. I

love it because I felt like that was going to

be scary too. But I think our V people put

our V life ahead of all other differences, where they're like,

you may be gay and democratic and we may hate that,

but your RV people, so we love you anyway. Ah.

Speaker 3: Just people loving people. That's amazing. Though I have not

really gone to an RV park yet.

Speaker 2: I've been really lucky with my solar panel being really

efficient and being super sunny age in general, and kind

of finding random places to plug in for a few hours.

Speaker 3: But I have a feeling.

Speaker 2: Eventually I go to the RV park and I'm going

to email you about the phone party and rodeo one

when that happens. Do the biggest question I get that

I kind of want to touch on is the finances

of the road. And I get emails and instagrams like

all the time, kind of almost every other day, and

the majority of the question is always you know, how

much did you say? How do you make money? And

it's hard for me to respond to each one of

those because each question is pose a little bit differently.

And I've just recently written something that I'm going to

try to post on my blog about it. But I guess,

like the thing that I would say for anybody that's

contemplating like getting on the road, is that you can

save so much more money than you think you can

if you really put your mind to it. And when

I was preparing to go on this trip, like I

hustled for a solid year, you know, I was picking

up extra yoga classes to teach. I was selling stuff

on Craigslist, like everything I owned. I was like flipping

things on Craigslist. And you can do it with less

money than I think you think you need, you know,

and if you're willing to live kind of not a

I don't want to say a poor lifestyle, but if

you're willing to kind of buy your food on like

the made to clear stuff and you are really vigilant

about going to you know, fruit stands and stuff like that,

you know you can really stretch your budget by a lot,

and then there will come the day when you have

to pick up an odd job here there, or just

do like a like a work exchange where you just

don't spend any money for a few weeks.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I like I was a little irresponsible. I cashed

in my four one k a snap, which honestly I

don't I don't regret it now and I don't think

I'll ever regret it. It was such a good experience

that it's worth whatever hell im I have to pay

later on in life.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and your life and your life so much richer

now and so many other ways totally.

Speaker 4: And like we were on the road just shy of

six months and I had had ten thousand dollars, but

we were doing it like a mid budget way, Like

we were staying in our v parks pretty much every

single night. There were a few times where we were like,

let's get a hotel for the weekend, and we were

doing cities, so we were like paying for museums and

eating out and yeah. So yeah, I think like people

would be shocked at how cheap it actually is to

live that life, especially the way you're doing it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, except for when my friends comm and it turns

and immediately into a treat yourself weak and I'm like

cocktails totally.

Speaker 4: You knew days. We I am big on birthdays and

we spent mine in Key West, and we spent so

much money. It was so nice to feel like you

were living a normal life again.

Speaker 10: Yeah, Fiesta, I was working for Apple full time, and I.

Speaker 11: Was working at a colonoscopy center like a doctor's office,

and then I taught yoga, and.

Speaker 5: Yeah, so were.

Speaker 6: We were both working full time, so the better part

of our weeks were in days were spent at work

instead of at home or with each other or outdoors.

Speaker 11: We lived in Jace's parents' basement. They have like a

little apartment, so we lived there.

Speaker 6: Yeah, just living a pretty normal life of work every

day and dinner at night and going to sleep.

Speaker 4: This is Jas and his wife Giddy. They had been

on the road for about six months when we first

started talking. I was really eager to talk to them

about how van life had impacted their relationship.

Speaker 6: So we had both actually talked about traveling full time,

kind of hitchhiking style, traveling throughout different countries.

Speaker 11: We were planning on actually doing a backpacking trip in

Europe was our original plan.

Speaker 6: Yeah, and then we were looking at vans kind of

as like it's a thing we've wanted to do off

and on for years since we were both like teenagers.

Speaker 5: So we would kind of check, you know, Craigslist.

Speaker 6: Eve kind of used listings for a van that we

potentially could build out, but we really had our eyes

set on backpack.

Speaker 5: In Europe for a bit, and then we.

Speaker 6: Stumbled upon stumbled upon a van for sale and decided

to pull the trigger and go for it and convert

it and live in it.

Speaker 4: So did you have kind of a path or did

you just decide you were going to hit the road

and see what happened.

Speaker 6: Well, originally, when we bought the van and started converting it,

we decided that we were going to drive down to

Argentina and drive through like all Central and South America.

But our businesses had both picked up, especially Giddeya's business.

Speaker 5: She does handmade jewelry and it.

Speaker 6: Had picked up and become quite popular, and we shipped

from the United States and we ship supplies to us

as well, and so we decided that for now at

least we're going to stay in the States, and so

we made a plan to drive up to Alaska and

back instead of Argentina and back. That way we're able

to continue running our online business is with shipping and

receiving in the States. We left on Easter Sunday of

this year, so I think that was March twenty seventh.

In that amount of time, I think that's five months

we've been Arizona, and then Utah, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Alberta,

British Columbia, Yukon, Alaska, and then we went through on

the way back, we went through all those same and

then Montana and Colorado.

Speaker 4: Now, I think the thing we were most afraid of

is what it was going to be like living in

a van with your significant other for a long time.

I'm like not having a place to escape too. How

has it been on your relationship if you don't mind

me asking.

Speaker 5: There's there's been good and bad.

Speaker 6: I mean, like any living situation, there's great days, there's

bad days, but overall it's actually been awesome.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 6: So when we were the previous situation we described living

in my parents' basement apartment we were renting from them.

It was a basement, so there wasn't a lot of

natural light, and we were working all the time, and

we're just kind of stressed, and so we actually we

had a lot harder time getting along than before moving

into the van, wouldn't you say.

Speaker 11: Yeah, we didn't like to spend much time together, to

be completely.

Speaker 6: Honest, Yeah, yeah, we argued quite a bit when we

spend time together before and.

Speaker 5: After moving into the van.

Speaker 6: It one hundred percent strengthened our marriage, our relationship. I mean,

there's definitely times you don't want to be five feet

from each other, and you have those trying moments. But

I think we know each other a lot more than

we ever could. I mean, in the short amount of

time we've been living in the van, I'd say it's

probably the equivalent of several years in our normal at

home whatever relationship with ye how it would have been.

We know each other a lot more, and it's definitely

strengthened our relationship.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we were the same. We would have just these

really visions fights all the time, and then living in

the van, you can't run away from each other. You

have to work it out because you're stuck with each other.

And I think also like it teaches you to communicate better.

Speaker 8: Definitely.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't just slam the sliding doors,

sit out in the rain.

Speaker 5: You know, you got to hash it out, and.

Speaker 6: It doesn't last as long if you do have an argument,

because you're right in front.

Speaker 5: Of each other.

Speaker 4: Well, and I think also the little things that it's

so easy to get caught up in don't matter, because

you're like, I'm seeing the world and every day is

a new day. And I don't know, I think you

just take you take life a little more seriously, or

maybe you take it less seriously.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's almost a combination.

Speaker 8: Yeah.

Speaker 6: Well, we set out without a without a plan, so

we kind of had indefinite Giddy is actually pregnant with

a baby that we're giving birth to and about two

and a half months, and so we'll be taking a

break from banlife for a couple of months during that time,

and then we plan on at least setting out again afterwards.

Speaker 5: What do you think do you think will keep going?

Speaker 8: Yeah?

Speaker 11: Yeah, when you're when you're already doing it, I don't know,

you just don't. We can't imagine living any other way

because there's just so much freedom and I don't know,

so I don't think of living any other way, Like,

I don't see different.

Speaker 8: I mean, we obviously I don't know. Someday maybe we

might live in the house, but I don't know when that.

Speaker 3: We don't know when that will be.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that could be in a few months, it could

be ten years from now. They're just kind of kind

of feeling it out. I think for now, we're happy

where we are and want to keep continuing.

Speaker 5: On with it.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll say, because we did it for six months,

and I was really surprised how hard it was to

adapt back to normal life afterwards.

Speaker 5: Really.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I was really depressed for probably like two or

three months after man. Yeah, like it just there's something

about like when you escape all the like mundane social

constructs of normal life, it's really hard to get back

into them because you see them from a whole new

perspective where you're like, I don't have to go to

an office and I don't have to do these things. Yeah,

it was really hard. And we're in New York now,

which I think is also a lot harder because you're

so used to like the quiet, and I don't know,

seeing new stuff every day. It was a challenge.

Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely, I mean you visit a lot of like

you visit big places as you travel, but we prefer

to stay in smaller areas. Like right now, we're in

Denver and we've been here a day, but we just

got out of the mountains and a couple of small

towns before that, and I think we we thought we

were city people before, and we definitely like some of

the comforts of the city, but I don't know, I

don't know if we could live in the city ever again.

Speaker 5: Yeah, it's cool to see that there's kind of there's

same people.

Speaker 6: I mean, there's nice people, there's rude people, but we're

kind of blown away just like the generosity and the

kindness of everyone that we meet. And it's just cool

to see that no matter you know, city or town

or campground or whatever it may be, no matter where

you are and which stay or Canada or wherever we go,

we've just run.

Speaker 5: Into the nicest people.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it's been awesome to just be surrounded by positive,

like minded people.

Speaker 11: It's crazy too because like a lot of them have

also been like old people that are like retired, which

I could never I've never felt like I could ever

relate to them because I'm like, oh, they they have

like that I don't know, the.

Speaker 5: Very life that they've already lived.

Speaker 11: Yeah, and also like their ideas to me, like they

were always just very like closed minded and stuff. But

like after you meet all these different people and they're

all like super open minded, super nice.

Speaker 6: And a lot of our new friends are actually retired

travelers invite us to play bingo at them and wake

up with the sun and sit there on the beach.

It's awesome. Yeah, we run into quite a few. I mean,

there's definitely a lot of young people doing what we're doing.

But in the more popular areas, like all the areas

we visited in Alaska that weren't you know, we definitely

had some solitude where we're the only people, but.

Speaker 5: In the more populated areas it was us.

Speaker 6: And then the demographic was quite a bit older, and

we have quite a bit of a good number of

older friends now that we have like minded agendas and lifestyles,

you know.

Speaker 4: Yeah, there's this strange camaraderie. Like I remember being Incus

Saint Marie and I was having a glass of wine

and we were in an RV park and like I

just started chatting with the sky next to me. It

was like seventy five and had been in the military

and was from like rural Ohio. And then he was

showing me as trailer and I was like, this is

so surreal that I'm like buddies with this dude, just

because we both travel in our vas together.

Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, that's common ground for sure. There was a

moment in Alaska. There was a couple that we met

there and they were I think he said he was

eighty one. I didn't catch how old she was, but

they were in their RV, you know, beach camping on

this near Homer, Alaska, out on the spit, and we

spent probably like two or three days with them. But

we would in the mornings, we'd bird watch with them

with their high powered binoculars.

Speaker 5: They were very proud of. We'd get tips on how

to drive in the sand and on lie.

Speaker 6: Yeah, tons of life advice and it was much appreciated.

A lot of it was pretty funny and kind of laughable,

but most of it was actually really good advice. And

I actually really respected the man for investing his time

into us young folks.

Speaker 5: You know, to teach us what he had learned. And yeah, he.

Speaker 11: Was so full, he was so happy and always just

like joking around you. So it just made you appreciate everything,

like there's something funny and joyful in everything, because it

was all day, like every day he was just laughing

and making jokes and he was just a happy.

Speaker 6: Person, happiest person we've ever met. Yeah, it was cool.

It was really cool to see that because I don't know,

I've always kind of as I've been aging. I guess

you could say I'm definitely still young, but I kind

of don't want to get old, and I've never really

had a reason other than like physically I won't be

able to do the things that.

Speaker 5: I can now.

Speaker 6: But I mean that guy he was pulling a dirt

bike behind his RV and he was eighty one years old,

And that guy gave.

Speaker 4: Me, hope, What was some of the advice I gave you?

Speaker 6: Most of it was relationship advice about how to treat

each other with respect and kindness. And you know, arguing

is never worth it. Most of the time. When you

start arguing, you forget why you even started, and it

just continues.

Speaker 8: It was making decisions together.

Speaker 6: Always, and yeah, not going behind each other's backs to

make decisions. And yeah, just just working as a team,

as a as a pair, like in everything we do.

And it was interesting because I think Alaska is kind

of our our realization point as well, since we set

out in the van. Like to us said in the beginning,

it was kind of a trip, like we're on it,

we're on a trip. We're on a big road trip.

And in Alaska it was a few days after meeting

that man. Actually we were in another area. We just

had like a night where you know, Giddy was drawing

and playing guitar and I was editing some photos and

we were both just kind of doing our thing and

we weren't on a road trip. It was it was

the first time we realized that, like this is our

life and that we do make every decision together, kind

of as he was advising us to.

Speaker 5: Do, that we're always together, we.

Speaker 6: Make every decision together, and and that we're not just

on a road trip right now, like this is our

current lifestyle and we're doing that together. And that was

a really cool, really cool night because we both realized.

Speaker 5: It and talked about it that night.

Speaker 4: Yeah, those are always the like I remember when we

had that same really we were at Lake Powell, and

we just we had like the coolest camp spot and

we opened up the doors and just looked out over

the valley and there were like wild rabbits running everywhere,

and we like poured a glass of wine and just

sat there and we're like, oh my god, this is

our life.

Speaker 5: Yeah, like how cool is that?

Speaker 4: You know, what's been your worst or scariest moment so far?

Speaker 5: We haven't had too many.

Speaker 6: Actually, someone asked us that the other day and we

stumbled to answer it. I don't know if we've had

a scary moment. I guess the scariest moment we've had

was on the freeway, our brakes gave out. One of

our break lines, sprung a leak, and all our break

fluid just in one go just completely emptied out. So

we had to you know, we had to slam on

our brakes because of traffic, but it just gave out.

There was no resistance, no brakes were activated, and so

I had to swerve the van off into the.

Speaker 5: Shoulder like in the gravel and just let it kind

of roll.

Speaker 6: To a stop and then slowly limpar way to a

break shop where we stayed for four days.

Speaker 4: Was it?

Speaker 6: Yeah, we stayed for four days waiting for our break

lines to arrive, because apparently it's a rare part that

not a lot of people carry. So that was I mean,

that was a scary moment, kind of more in a

close call moment, not like a some dude trying to

kill us outside our van moment, but it's definitely scary

in its own way.

Speaker 9: I was.

Speaker 5: I was scared.

Speaker 6: At least my heart was pumping. That was probably our

least fun time of living in a van. Was we

lived at the mechanic shop for four days.

Speaker 5: Yeah, we definitely.

Speaker 6: Tapped out our movies and all our snacks and yeah,

it was it was a little rough weekend.

Speaker 4: It was really hot.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that was up in just outside of Park City

in Utah, and that was maybe a month ago.

Speaker 5: So it was middle of summer. It was it's pretty

spicy hot outside.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I was broke down in Las Crusis and that's

when we realized, like, oh, when your car breaks down

in your car is your home. You become homeless.

Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a little more rough than I think people

realize or would imagine it mean.

Speaker 4: So, what do you think has been your biggest life

lesson from your time on the road.

Speaker 11: I feel like for me, I thought I was really

open minded before, but I feel like as we travel

more and more, I feel like I've become more.

Speaker 8: And more open minded and more and more accepting.

Speaker 4: Yes, I don't know.

Speaker 11: Like people, we always like categorize people into different types

of people. I guess, like, you know, like van people

are like these hippies and they're bums and they're smelly

and whatever. But we're I mean, we're not, And.

Speaker 3: So I don't know.

Speaker 11: Like when you see and you recognize that people aren't

like us, for example, we're not what everybody thinks that

we are like, it makes you like you change your

ideas of other people too, if you're like, well, I'm

not like that, so that's probably like this idea I

have this type of person is probably.

Speaker 3: Not like that at all.

Speaker 8: So I don't know. I'm just I feel like I'm

more open minded for sure.

Speaker 6: I would say that for me, the biggest really like

life realization is that this and this sounds so cheesy

and corny, but if you have like a dream, go

live that dream like fulfill it, make it happen. And

even if it sounds funny, to live in a van

as a dream like a lot of people laugh at that,

but like that's a dream that we had, you know,

and we we made it happen. Like we started companies

so that we could fund our travels on the road,

and we started a year ahead and built them up.

Speaker 7: You know.

Speaker 6: Now we live on that and we we only work

one day a week. We still pay our taxes like

everybody else. We're not, you know, living off the system

or government cheese or anything. I don't know, cause a

year ago, you know, like I said, we were both

working full time. It didn't seem like there was any

other way. It was like, well, that's what you do.

That's what everyone does, because you have to pay for

where you're living, and you know, pay for your car

and pay for all this other stuff. And we've kind

of just made it happen to or we choose our

own schedule, we choose where we want to go. And

I think that's I don't know now, I'm just rambling

in circles, but I think the biggest life realization is

that your dreams are dreams for a reason, and when

you make them reality, that's happiness.

Speaker 8: Yeah.

Speaker 11: Joy, It's a lot more attainable than you would think

it is, or like when you're in it, you realize

you're like, oh my gosh, why didn't I do this

like years ago?

Speaker 8: It's so easy and I'm so much happier.

Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely moving forward. Whatever crazy idea that seems unattainable

that we.

Speaker 5: Have, we're just going to try it.

Speaker 6: Because if you fail, whatever, you know, you move on

or try it again or whatever. But if you get

what you're working at and you get like, you know,

the thing that you really want, or you're doing what

you really want to do, it's I.

Speaker 5: Don't know, I don't know if I've had happiness like

I do now.

Speaker 6: It's really nice to know that we're doing exactly what

we want to do when we want to do it.

Speaker 4: Yeah, there's something really pure about it, and I agree.

I like our time on the road was probably some

of the happiest time in my life, just because you're

living your life for yourself, like you're not worried about

doing things to placate other people exactly. So you're in

Denver now where next.

Speaker 5: Well, we'll be in Colorado a couple of weeks, is

that right? Yeah, probably a couple of weeks.

Speaker 6: So Giddy's jewelry business is called Carteo Handmade, and we

actually have a pretty big show that we're doing in Arizona.

We're part of like a big jewelry fashion expo that'll

be happening down there the first week of October, and

so we're gonna go down to Arizona a couple weeks

ahead of time, or maybe three weeks ahead of time

to kind of prepare for that and get a booth

assembled and inventory made for that show.

Speaker 5: So after probably the next couple weeks.

Speaker 6: We'll head down to Arizona and that's where we'll stay

for the remainder of the year. You know, the child

is born and we kind of rest and recuperate, and then.

Speaker 5: I don't know after that.

Speaker 6: We've talked about going south, but we might cruise the

east coast of the United States.

Speaker 4: How are you preparing or have you even gotten there

for doing this with a baby.

Speaker 5: We haven't really prepared much anything.

Speaker 6: We have ideas, like we're going to kind of change

our van layout a little bit to accommodate a third seat,

you know, that's safely and securely bolted in.

Speaker 5: And a crib area. We're kind of changing things around.

Speaker 6: That's another reason why we'll be in Arizona the rest

of the year, swapping things out, improving the van physically

as far as the layout and furniture and everything.

Speaker 5: As far as preparing ourselves, we haven't done that.

Speaker 6: We don't know where to be. We're kind of just

winging it now. We're excited, though, it'll be good. We're

just we're excited to raise a kid outside, raise a

kid out in the wild, and to kind of be

open minded and learn from travel and culture and people.

Speaker 7: I think I got inspired by the one hundredth anniversary

of the National Park Service.

Speaker 9: I love the National Parks and.

Speaker 7: Really wanted to explore more of them once I heard

about them having about four hundred and eleven sites where

I only thought there.

Speaker 9: Was fifty nine.

Speaker 7: So I really wanted to explore more of the American

culture and history as well as the nature. So I

think that's what got me started, and that's what helped

me decide to do one hundred National Park Service places,

and that led me to think that I should just

go ahead and try to hit all the states in

the continuous United States.

Speaker 4: This is Jennifer, who was based out of Fort Worth

and has spent the majority of her summer taking mini

trips throughout the state of Texas while getting ready to

embark on her cross country trip. We kind of did

it the other way around. We were more inspired by

checking out all the cities because I feel like as Americans,

you can only travel so much, and there's so many

places that you would never just take vacation to go to,

and so we were like, we need to check out

cities like Saint Louis or Memphis, places you wouldn't otherwise go.

And then obviously on the way we passed by tons

of national parks. But I thought was so cool. Was

just especially now and I don't like to get political,

but like the America I'm seeing on TV is not

the America we encountered out on the road.

Speaker 9: Oh so true.

Speaker 4: That was really inspiring to me, especially like two gay dudes,

like living in an RV in Mississippi, Like the idea

of how you would be perceived was so different than

how we actually interacted with people.

Speaker 7: Yeah, no, that's a great point. I think that I

do see travelist connection. You know, you really get that

deeper sense of who someone is that lives in a

different place than you. And also just pictures don't do

the places or the National Parks Justice. I think you're

such a deeper sense of place in meeting when you

go visit those places.

Speaker 9: So I totally agree with it.

Speaker 7: Being different than this kind of maybe almost surface level

conversation happening in the media, and just to get to

explore the depth, I'm so thankful for that. So you've

actually caught me kind of before my year of forty.

Speaker 9: Eight States starts.

Speaker 7: I will begin exploring other states starting in November. So

the past few months have been about Texas, just connecting

to Texas history and understanding my state better, because I

think that's so important.

Speaker 9: You know, tagline I.

Speaker 7: Guess is like broaden your backyard, and so starting with

where you're from and understanding the people around you better

I think is really really important. But yeah, ultimately I

have four trips, bigger road trips planned because obviously I

can't keep coming back to Texas every time. So one

of them is to the Southwest and doing the Four

Corners region, and then one is the Gulf Coast and

doing more of Texas to Florida and then up.

Speaker 9: To South Carolina and North Carolina.

Speaker 7: And then one is the Great Northern what I call it,

and it's twenty eight states in the summer, the whole summer.

It's basically this line across the country, going through the

middle of it horizontally, and I'm going to explore the

twenty eight above that line.

Speaker 4: What are you most excited about.

Speaker 7: There's this one place that I've really been fascinated by

in Oregon, and it's the Lewis and Clark.

Speaker 9: National Historic Site.

Speaker 7: I think I've always been kind of fascinated by their

journey and story about discovering America and well, not discovering America.

Speaker 9: But you know, like seeing going where maybe.

Speaker 7: Americans hadn't gone before. And I'm really fascinated by their journey.

And up in Oregon they have where they finished the

route they made it to the Pacific Ocean, and yeah,

I'm just really I'm really excited to go there and

learn more about their story and maybe even recreate some

of their route.

Speaker 9: Yeah, just seeing seeing that northern route.

Speaker 4: You know, when we're talking about our trip, like inevitably

there's someone who says I've always wanted to do that,

I think, just do it, because you know I had

I felt that way too, Like I had always wanted

to do it until I did it, and then when

I did it, I was like, God, this was so easy.

Did I do this years ago?

Speaker 7: No? I think there is that kind of mental barrier.

You're like, this is not done, and what am I doing?

If I go do this? You know, what does that

say about me and maybe my even my career aspirations

or that sort of thing. But I totally agree with you,

Just go do it. I think that you learn so

much about yourself and about other people and about the

environment and your surroundings that it definitely makes up for

any lost career benefits or you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 9: Obviously, being responsible.

Speaker 7: Is incredibly important, but I definitely benefit from exploring the

United States and learned so much more about history and

what it means to me to be an American that, yeah,

just go do it.

Speaker 9: I totally agree with you.

Speaker 4: It's funny, like I think, being a product of the

eighties and nineties, we were taught to kind of have

a singular vision of what success looked like, and I

think when we break from that because either we don't

fit into it or we want something different, we feel

really guilty.

Speaker 9: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And that bums me out because I think

like success has many different looks, and to me, seeing

America and understanding like who Americans are and how you

fit into that picture is an equal achievement to like

calling yourself like senior manager at a bank.

Speaker 9: No, I completely agree.

Speaker 7: I think you know, both teach you different lessons about life.

It seems to me that traveling has bigger life lessons

surrounding values and these deeper places in self.

Speaker 9: I've had different jobs.

Speaker 7: Where I felt, yeah, more more like this is just

your task and that's what you complete, rather than using

this exploratory gift of curiosity that we have in finding

yourself and in.

Speaker 9: Finding what you get to what you can offer the world.

Speaker 7: I found that's kind of what travel has helped me

with is what is it about you that really can

connect to other people?

Speaker 9: And how do you want to kind of bring that out?

Speaker 4: And I almost wonder if that's what creates the RB

culture that we experience, which is when your life is

about traveling, you have a better appreciation for people and

you're able to look beyond like political or religious or

just you know, cultural views because you realize like that

was my biggest lesson was and I never felt that

I was this way, but I saw the world very

black and white before our trip, like Republicans or Democrats

or you know, like pro gay or anti gay, and

there was no room for flexibility in the middle for me. Yeah,

and I realized, maybe people disagree with me, and maybe

people disagree with me being gay, but that doesn't mean

like we can't find common ground. And I think on

the trip, I really learned to be like, you know,

like I never thought I would appreciate a small town

in Alabama. Yeah, yeah, and then you know, you get

there and you're like, like, small town USA isn't a

scary place, and it isn't unaccepting and it isn't not progressive.

Like you just learn to see the world in a

more dynamic way. I think can value people in a

very different way.

Speaker 9: Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 7: It's kind of like you see the multi dimensionality of people.

You know, you can disagree with them on something, but

then also really connect with them on something else, whereas

most of the time you may not have that opportunity.

Speaker 9: To get to know that something else that you.

Speaker 7: Connect on if you just kind of see how the

media portrays a certain aspect.

Speaker 9: So yeah, it's that depth.

Speaker 7: In recognizing that you're both experiencing human life, and you

can definitely connect on at least something, even if even

if your lives look completely different.

Speaker 4: When your trip is over. Do you think you'll go

back to Fort Worth.

Speaker 9: I don't think so.

Speaker 7: I think I will end up in Tennessee. The Appellations

are just probably my favorite area in the country. And

I'm actually back in Fort Worth just to take some classes.

Speaker 9: In graphic designs.

Speaker 7: So I'm hoping that I can use these new skills

and figure out how to translate them into living in Appalachia,

and Appalachia.

Speaker 9: I have to start saying correctly.

Speaker 7: So that's kind of my ultimate plan is to end

up in that region.

Speaker 4: Yeah, the only part of Tennessee at Palasia we saw

was Pigeon Forge. Just worried it is. It's so weird

because it's like the poor man's Las Vegas and the

Smoky Mountains.

Speaker 9: Oh my gosh, Pigeon Forge.

Speaker 7: I have the craziest experience there.

Speaker 9: We were driving.

Speaker 7: From the Great Smokies or yeah, the Great Smoky Mountains

National Park and driving to I think Knoxville and it's

on the way and we saw all the neon lights

and the sun was setting.

Speaker 9: And we were like where are we?

Speaker 7: I honestly thought there was only you know, these tiny

farming communities in that region.

Speaker 9: But Pigeon for was a wake up call. It was

just the Las Vegas of the.

Speaker 7: East, and I had no idea that that existed until

stumbling upon it.

Speaker 12: It's so off putting because you're driving through like some

of the most beautiful scenery in America and then you

like round a bend and it's just neon.

Speaker 4: Lights and like the tackiest architecture ever in a giant

cross like up on a mountain above. It was so weird.

Speaker 7: It is, and you kind of wonder, how how did

this pop up here? I mean I was confused. Yeah,

but I'm I'm still I still want to go to Dollywood.

You know, I have some curiosity now with this place

that that people talk about. So I'm definitely going to

have to head back to Pigeonforge and explore it a

little bit more because I was baffled.

Speaker 4: People always ask like, what's the scariest place we went,

and my boyfriend I disagree, But for me, it was

Pigeon Forge so far.

Speaker 9: That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's so different, it's

so different.

Speaker 7: I think there was a state park in Alabama that

I felt like was the scariest place.

Speaker 9: I guess it was near Mobile.

Speaker 7: It was an off day, so just during the week

in September, my friend and I were camping and we

there was only two different campers, us and a ice

cream truck like legit, an ice cream truck that kind

of was an old ice cream truck but the paint

had faded and they were pulled into the parking spot

next to us, and they had a TV on in

the front seat where it was just black and white,

you know, the static, So nothing was actually on the TV,

but it was on and it was static, and we

never saw a person ever. It was just the ice

cream truck with the static TV. And I thought we

were going to die.

Speaker 9: Yeah, what was happening with that situation? Oh man?

Speaker 7: It was so scary. And what didn't help was when

the sun started setting, raccoons would come out and they

would be on their hind legs. And they probably were

not rabid, but that is the image that comes to

my mind when raccoons are walking towards you, just on

their back legs.

Speaker 9: Jesus, these rabbits.

Speaker 4: Food.

Speaker 9: Oh man.

Speaker 7: We got in the tent and just tried to tell

funny stories and like, yeah, we stayed, but man, that

was a scary could have been more scary, but it

was still a scary situation.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 4: I feel like that's on part like the clown that

hang out in the woods.

Speaker 7: Yeah, I was. I was waiting for a clown to

pop out, for sure, and that would have been I'm

not even sure what we would have done, but yeah,

it was.

Speaker 9: It was scary. It was scary.

Speaker 7: It definitely seems like it was a scene out of

a horror film and that we just were not aware

of the plot line.

Speaker 9: But ultimately it missed mine.

Speaker 4: One of the coolest places we saw was in Alabama,

and it may not have any meaning too. Have you

seen the movie Big Fish? Yes, Okay, so outside of Montgomery,

that little town, okay, still exists untouched really Yeah, and

so you it's the strangest thing, like you have to

I had did a lot of research to find out.

You basically drive out of town and then you like

drive on a dirt road along the railroad tracks, and

then you cross a little bridge onto an island in

the Alabama River. Yeah, and then there's a gate and

you basically have to press a button, and then a

video camera comes on and watches you put five dollars

into like a change collection box. Okay, and then a

phone rigs and you answer the phone, and some man

just gives you a code which you then dial into

this gate. And then the gate slowly opens and you

drive like a mile out on this probably half a

mile like dirt road, further into the river, and then

you cross like another little bridge onto another little island.

And on this little island in the Alabama River is

the town from Big Fish. Oh my gosh, it is

the coolest thing. And there's like a herd of wild

goats wandering around. It's the coolest thing in the world.

Speaker 9: That sounds so cool.

Speaker 7: I think my ultimate goal with Tree of Travel is

just to get people out there and explore the country.

Speaker 9: And I think that, you know, this.

Speaker 7: Conversation that we've just had is one of the many

benefits that you get from traveling. You just get to

connect with other people who have seen cool things and

done cool things and gotten to share in that experience.

So not only do you get to connect with people

on the road, but you know, you have this bank

of stories and knowledge that you get to connect with.

Speaker 9: People forever after that.

Speaker 7: I think would be my ultimate push to get people

out there to see the states and yeah, explore, explore

the backyard that we get to call home.

Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I agree. I think there's so much of

America you don't get to see. And that sounds vague,

but in the sense of like roadside attraction culture and

state parks, or even just like small towns that are

really unique and really charming that you don't even know exists,

and you never would unless you live on the road.

Speaker 7: There's a kind of a cheesy song about that, where

it's just the flyover states, right, And there's so much

to the flyover states that I think.

Speaker 9: People they would love if they had the.

Speaker 7: Chance to kind of go explore them and figure out

more about America.

Speaker 9: There's such a freedom that comes with living on the road, and.

Speaker 4: It's dynamic, Like every day you're in a new place

and you're encountering new people and you just feel.

Speaker 5: Stagnant at all.

Speaker 4: You feel like every day your life is changing a

little bit.

Speaker 9: Yeah, that's true, and you can kind of like see it.

Speaker 7: I really enjoy writing journals when I'm traveling, just to

kind of reflect on where I'm at in both place

and mentally, and I feel like that's the coolest thing

about traveling is that you actually get to see that

progress that you're moving forward with your life. Things aren't

as important as they seemed, and other things become a

lot more important.

Speaker 4: What's so crazy to me is we our relationships sucked

before this trip, Like this trip was kind of like

we even had a conversation, like we need to decide

what happens after this trip because there's a good chance

we're going to break up before this trip is over.

And like being in a car with someone really changes

the way you relate to that person, like for a

prolonged period of time, obviously, because there's nowhere to run.

When you have an argument, you have to like sit in.

Speaker 9: That argument and have the conversation.

Speaker 4: Yeah, And like like we are communication skills improved so much.

Speaker 7: Like there's so many life lessons that are overlooked in

travel and just kind of touted as this like escape mechanism,

where that's.

Speaker 9: So not the case.

Speaker 7: You learn all of these really important life lessons like

taking action and asking for help. I think that's a

huge one too, where that's not really encouraged and you

have to ask for help because sometimes you have no

idea what to do, so that's the only way you

can move forward.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it teaches you a lot of humility

and it really kind of shows you your place in

the world, which is beforehand, I had like a great

career and I wasn't getting a lot of money, and

I think from that. I hate admitting this, but I

felt a little bit of not better than the no

I get that. Yeah, And I didn't realize it at

the time until I was on the road and it

was like, just because I had an important job doesn't

really mean shit. In the Grinski mosings.

Speaker 9: I think we're definitely taught that it does.

Speaker 7: Where jobs are kind of they define your worth as

a human rather than they just provide the necessary things

you need to survive. They're given a lot more meaning,

a lot of which I don't think is healthy because

it becomes like this hierarchy of value. Who is more

valuable And.

Speaker 4: I just think like, yeah, so if I make X

amount of dollars and you know, have this title on

my business card, Like I didn't know how to make

a fire. I had never been alone with my thoughts

for ten hours at a time like there's so many

things that just like it doesn't matter.

Speaker 7: I went to survival school in Utah and I had

to learn how to make fire from Styx and I

was so bad at it. I could not figure it out,

and everyone else had figured it out, and it was

so infuriating. I just wanted to quit, you know. I

was just like, this is not this is not something

that I need to know how to do.

Speaker 3: You know.

Speaker 9: I just had this like horrible attitude about it.

Speaker 7: But I realized that, you know, maybe this is the

most important thing I need to know how to do.

You know, hire is nature's gift and that we're able

to recreate it.

Speaker 9: I mean, come on, that's powerful stuff.

Speaker 4: Or on the flip side, like I learned to not

only appreciate but get excited about a four dollars bottle

of wine.

Speaker 9: Yes, that's exactly it. You get to like find the

things that are good for cheaper.

Speaker 4: Since it's been about six weeks since i'd talked to

Alex and Jason Giddey, I reached out to see what

they've been up to in the time since our conversation.

This is what Alex had to say since we last chatted.

I continued on my journey through the wild lands of Canada,

Land of the a I migrated down south to Colorado,

where I met my dad and grabbed my new loyal sidekick,

to Keitna, my two year old German shepherd. Now armed

with the best girl in the world, we headed back

up to Canada to explore Kutene and you National Parks.

The weather was holding out fantastically and while it was

getting cold at night during the day, we were able

to explore the wild and bast alpie of the parks.

Over the next few weeks, Tally and I migrated further south,

stopping at Hot Springs small towns New Denver is the

cutest town I've been to in a long time, and

meeting wonderful characters along the way. A little over a

month of being on the road together, life in the

van got a little difficult. The loneliness started to set in.

I wasn't connecting very well to myself or to what

this trip was about. I molded over for a few

days and tried to persevere, but eventually I ended up

heading to my parents' house for a little restart and

refresher I've been here for about a week now and

tomorrow me and Tally are headed down to ben to

go rock climbing with friends. Fallen Northwest has been amazing,

but looking forward, we're going to explore Utah, Arizona, and

southern California. I've never seen a landscape like the American Southwest,

huge red spires jutting towards the sky, or canyons that

you can't see the bottom of. Coming home was a

good choice, and asking for help was a better one.

Stopping and now restarting allowed me to come back to

the road with the fresh Head art and playlist. Jason

Giddey have experienced some even bigger changes. Here's what they

said after chatting with you in Denver. We stayed in

Colorado for a couple weeks. After leaving the Denver area,

we explored Garden of the Gods for a day before

heading more southwest. In Colorado, there's an interesting attraction a

few hours southwest of Denver. It's called Bishop Castle. You

have to look up all the details, but essentially mister

Bishop spent his life building his own castle by himself.

Its towers of windows, spiral stairs, a moat, and a drawbridge.

The real deal. It's pretty interesting. To say the least.

After Bishop Castle, we visited an awesome wolf rescue sanctuary

called Mission Wolf. It's a must do if you're visiting Colorado.

We loved it. We stayed a couple days camped out

right at the property. The staff is super friendly and welcoming.

You can camp right there or in one of their

many teepees on the property. The wolves are magical, really

awesome creatures. You get to see them on a tour,

and if you're lucky like we were on our visit there,

a few can actually meet and mingle with. At the

end of the day, you fall asleep to the sound

of the wolves howling. Following the Wolf sanctuary, stayed a

few days on our cousins farm. They grow several different

crops and have dogs, horses, cows, cats, chickens, et cetera.

We loved riding quads, exploring Indian ruins, learning about crops

and irrigation, and taking care of the chickens. Nothing beats

fresh farm food and seeing family if you haven't seen

them in years. It was awesome. We left Colorado and

made our way to Arizona. In preparation we're having our

baby girl. We've temporarily moved into a small apartment so

we have some more spacious, comfortable place to bring her

into the world. Our plan is to make a few

changes in the band to safely accommodate the baby girl

before hitting the road again. We planned to stick around

in Arizona and spend the holidays with family, and then

set out for a new journey on New Year's We're

stoked to get back on the road. You're right, the

transition has been rough. We miss waking up in a

new place every month.

Speaker 5: It's rock