Thomas Jefferson: Futurist

What faith did Thomas Jefferson place in future Americans to accomplish what the revolutionary generation could not? Colleen Shogan talks with Andrew Davenport about Jefferson’s Virginia, the contradictions in the Declaration of Independence, and the Sage of Monticello’s abiding belief in the generations to come. 

Featuring Andrew Davenport, Ph.D., Vice President for Research and Saunders Director of the International Center for Jefferson Studies at Monticello. 

Read Dr. Davenport’s essay on Thomas Jefferson at Inpursuit.org.

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Andrew Davenport: You can see in Jefferson's own life that he

truly believed in change and the possibility of change, and if he

didn't, he wouldn't have made the transition from being a

loyal subject to being a leading radical in the independence

movement.

Colleen Shogan: In April 1820, Thomas Jefferson worried about

the fate of the American Union. The question of whether to admit

Missouri into the Union as a slave state or as a free state

tore at the nation's seams. For Jefferson, who called for an end

to slavery, yet who would enslave people until the day he

died, the Missouri question was like a fire bell in the night.

It awakened and filled him with terror. Slavery, he wrote, was

like holding a wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him nor

safely let him go. Jefferson, long wrestled with the

contradictions of his own life. He was the author of a

declaration filled with self evident truths that all men were

created equal. These Americans were entitled to life, liberty

and the pursuit of happiness, but at Monticello, he had

enslaved servants to attend to his every need, as today's

guest, Dr. Andrew Davenport argues, Jefferson's abiding

belief in the generations to come gave him hope that

Americans would accomplish what the Revolutionary generation did

not. So what can we learn from Jefferson's faith in the future?

I'm Colleen Shogan, and this is In Pursuit a podcast that

explores lessons from America's past to write the history of

America's future. Episode Three: Thomas Jefferson: Futurist.

Andrew Davenport, welcome to In Pursuit.

Andrew Davenport: Colleen. Thank you so much for having me.

Colleen Shogan: We're here to talk about Thomas Jefferson now.

Thomas Jefferson's born in 1743 into a wealthy family in

Virginia. Tell us a little bit what the Virginia countryside

looks like at that point in time.

Jefferson's born 1743 in what is now Albemarle County, Virginia,

was the western frontier of British colonial North America

at the time Jefferson was born, really pressed right up against

the Blue Ridge Mountains. And on the other side, of course,

native territory. And when Jefferson is coming up through

adolescence, the western territory beyond the Blue Ridge

Mountains is really a war zone, a theater of the Seven Years'

War. And so Jefferson has, early on, these inklings of what a

Empire of Liberty could look like in British North America.

But he begins, of course, he'sloyal British subject, as

were his parents. Mother is born 1721, actually, in London. She's

the daughter of an Anglo-Virginian family, the

randolphs. She's well descended. His mother is his father, a

little bit less so, from the Jefferson line, who'd been in

Virginia longer than the Randolphs had, but had not had

the same material success. So when the Jeffersons and the

Randolphs come together, it's really advantageous for the

Jefferson family, especially. His father was a surveyor. He

was very civically engaged locally, but his real fortune

comes through marriage, marriage to a Randolph, and also his

knowledge of the local land. So as a surveyor, he's a keen land

savvy sense, and he's one of the first Europeans to settle in

what is now Albemarle County, in this Virginia Piedmont area in

the central part of the Commonwealth, but is now the

state, and he has 1000 acre home site, beginning quite early in

the 1730s and 40s. Doesn't have a home yet the proper land to

fit a proper home that he would like. So through one of his

cousins by marriage, in exchange for a very tall drink of rum

from a colonial Tavern in Williamsburg, Peter Jefferson

inherits Shadwell plantation in Albemarle County. It's where he

will make the Jefferson home, and it's the home that Jefferson

is born into in 1743, so we're talking tobacco as the main

crop. And Jefferson grows up in the slave society in Albemarle

County. And of course, he's born into the gentry.

Well, it sounds like a very prosperous situation for Thomas

Jefferson. He's a loyal subject of George the Third. What

happens to Thomas Jefferson going from that situation to

eventually writing the Declaration of Independence.

Andrew Davenport: It's not something that you would have

been able to predict, and no one could have predicted this rapid

change, not just in Jefferson's life, but in what will

ultimately become the United States. And yes, Jefferson's

life is an example of prosperity. He's born into the

gentry class. His father is one of the wealthiest men in the

county, the Jefferson family, and especially the Randolph

family, would be considered upper middle class, or upper

class, you know, really kind of the leaders of the terms of the

economic station of the colony. But Jefferson's life is really

advanced through education, this principled commitment on his

part to improve himself through reading, through writing,

through socializing, making alliances. Jefferson's really

serious about his studies. He's really serious about his studies

of human nature in particular. And he's reading about Ancient

Greece and the fall of Athenian democracy and how it devolved

into civil war. And he's reading about the fall of the ancient

Roman Republic and how it devolved into tyrannical

behavior. And he really thinks when he sees the actions of the

king and his ministers and when others in his class do across

the colonies, they're looking at tyrannical behavior. And so

because of restrictions against settlement into Western and

native lands, because of newly direct taxation in the 1760s

because of the dissolution of colonial legislatures,

Virginians, people in Massachusetts as well, people up

and down the colonies will say, Hey, is what's happening in our

colony going on? What's happening with yours, too? And

let's exchange notes about how we kind of ward off these

growing tyrannical behaviors that are coming out of London.

That's how the first steps toward resistance will emerge.

Jefferson, writing in Summary View of the Rights of British

America, he says that he wants the name of King George the

Third not to be a hideous blot on the page of history. He's

holding out hope that change will come for George the Third

and his ministers, and when it doesn't, that's when Jefferson

and others will believe it makes really good common sense for

independence.

Colleen Shogan: Well, just like George Washington, he married a

very wealthy widow. So tell us a little bit about Jefferson's

wife. We don't often hear much about her because of her illness

and her early death.

Andrew Davenport: Martha Wales Skelton Jefferson, very

prominent in the colony, quite wealthy herself, and when her

father dies, Jefferson will, of course, inherit this really

large estate, which includes about 130 or so enslaved people

and about 10,000 acres across Virginia. But the story that we

hear is often just about that inheritance from Wales. It's not

about Martha Wales Skelton Jefferson herself. I think new

exciting scholarship shows that she led just as much of a

revolutionary life as Jefferson did, and although he burned her

correspondence to protect their privacy, we can see that through

his letters to other people where he's describing say, I'm

waiting for a letter for my wife, or Please tell my wife

this or that, we can see that he's really entrusting some very

interesting details about what's happening the Second Continental

Congress, what's happening elsewhere during the

Revolutionary War to his wife, Mrs. Jefferson. And so while she

dies in an early age, in her early to mid 30s, and after, oh

geez, about 10 pregnancies or so and the loss of several, several

children, we know that she had a lasting influence on Jefferson's

life, that their marriage, as he said, was were years of

uncheckered happiness, but unfortunately, she was not able

to live long enough to see the accomplishments that her husband

had, of course, or be able to care for her family, or see

really what the United States would become.

Colleen Shogan: The Revolutionary era for Thomas

Jefferson you write In your essay for In Pursuit is a

complicated time for him. In some ways it's amongst the

brightest of times he writes the Declaration of Independence, but

there's other aspects of that time period that are very dark

for him. Can you talk about those?

Andrew Davenport: I love this quote from Alan Taylor. He says,

"Thomas Jefferson did not want to write the Declaration of

Independence." He really wanted to have been doing anything else

but be in Philadelphia in the late spring, early summer of

1776 because he's thinking about his home, Virginia, which is

reconsidering it has to make its own constitution. And he's also,

of course, thinking about his wife, who has suffered

miscarriages, is ill, has child to care for in Virginia too, and

would have been in Philadelphia if she were well enough to and

you can see this in Jefferson's correspondence. His thoughts are

elsewhere. They're not exclusively in Philadelphia.

They're on his home, Virginia, his country, as he calls it, and

of course, with his family, with his wife. So yes, being present

for the Second Continental Congress, having all this

committee work, being able to exchange brilliant ideas with

people from all over, from New Jersey, from Connecticut, from

Philadelphia, from Massachusetts. It sounds

fantastic on paper, but it's a ton of work. He's working six

days a week, round the clock, burning the candles both ends.

And he's assigned the task, of course, of drafting the

Declaration of Independence, and of course, he comes through. It

takes him 17 days, but at the very same time, he's thinking

about what's happening in Virginia and how he can, from

afar, influence and also take care of family matters to the

extent that he's able to.

Colleen Shogan: Now, Thomas Jefferson, unlike some of the

other figures we know from this time period, he does not go on

to fight in the Revolutionary War. What does he do during this

time period, after he writes the declaration?

Jim Ambuske: Jefferson doesn't see himself fit for military

command, and he's he's exactly right. He does not lack for self

awareness. So he's not leading like Washington is on the

battlefield. He's not like Hamilton is either. As

subordinate to Washington. He's a legislator. During this time,

he's remaking Virginia as a state, and then he is the second

governor of Virginia, following Patrick Henry. And so he leads

politically. He doesn't lead militarily, and he'll try to

protect to the extent that he's able to state from British

invasion. And he's unsuccessful. But I think anyone as governor

in that position would be unsuccessful, given the state of

the coastline, given the power of the British forces, given the

state of the state militias. Jefferson, he knew that he had

an inferior hand, but I think anyone in the position that he

found himself in would have really, really struggled. One

thing that you can really fault him for is not staying in office

until a next governor could be found this period in the summer

when Jefferson's term had officially ended, but no

governor had been chosen by representatives to take over.

And instead of staying in the office, making sure that British

forces could be adequately opposed, Jefferson leaves. He

flees with his family to try and protect them. And you could

fault him for that, I think.

Colleen Shogan: And Jefferson really feels that criticism. He

internalizes that and it says it stays with him his entire life.

Andrew Davenport: He does it stings him forever, and

especially Henry's criticisms of him in the office. But of

course, Henry would have had the very same issues as governor,

and he knew the issues that Jefferson faced. I think that's

why, in particular, Henry's criticism stung, and Jefferson

faced the tribunal, and his name is ultimately cleared.

Colleen Shogan: After the Revolutionary War, Jefferson

travels to France. He becomes the American Minister to France.

So when he goes abroad, what does he find in Paris? What's

the French and European views of young United States?

Andrew Davenport: Well, Jefferson finds a great number

of contacts and connections in France, and at this time,

Abigail Adams will call him one of the choicest ones on the

planet. He's known for his conversation for even though

he's plain dressed, he stands out because of his bearing,

because of his cosmopolitan learning. And so he represents

the United States, both in terms of being an ambassador, but also

in terms of just the culture of an American. And so he's

representing not just the interests of the States, but

also the new nation, which has just been hatched through war.

So he safeguards the commercial interests of the US, principally

advocating for the sales of the exports of tobacco and for whale

oil. He helps with a couple of treaties as well. And then he,

of course, is looking back across the Atlantic to see how

things are going. You know, this is the time of the Articles of

Confederation. This is the Confederation Congress. There's

a weak, centralized government. And Jefferson knows this. He

knows that he can act to the fullest extent that he possibly

could as an ambassador without this kind of centralized

government that empowers its representatives. And he's hoping

that the new United States can be safeguarded for the selection

of a new constitution, and is advocating for liberties in a

Bill of Rights.

Colleen Shogan: So after his service in France, the 1790s are

a time of really intense partisanship, vitriolic

politics, and Thomas Jefferson has some very interesting jobs.

In the 1790s he's the Secretary of State under George

Washington. He's the vice president under John Adams. So

explain to us, how does Thomas Jefferson he does not agree with

Washington and Adams much of the time. How does he serve in these

administrations? Does he toe the party line, or does he oppose

Washington and Adams?

Andrew Davenport: You know, I think we have to remember that

Jefferson is a dreamer. He's a designer, he's an author, he's

an architect, he's a man of ideas, and he's a man of the

political arena. He really is a political animal. And so even as

Secretary of State, as vice president as well. Jefferson is

thinking about how he would want to do things and how he would

want to lead a country. Is not the way that he sees

Washington's leadership. He sees Hamilton having Washington's

ear, or how Adams ends up leading the nation too. So he

does engage in a bit of subterfuge. Let's call it that.

And during the Washington administration, he's planting

stories in the press, and he's advocating for limited

government where centralized power is is not so centralized,

for that matter, and for a new nation that is not built up on

commercial interests, so to speak, and doesn't have the kind

of modern, contemporary financial instruments that we

would recognize in our own economy to come. He's hoping for

some more influence, and when he sees particularly that he does

not have it in the Washington administration, he ends up

resigning from the cabinet and returning to Charlottesville his

first retirement before running for president in 1796 and

ultimately losing to Adams and becoming vice president. You

wouldn't necessarily want Jefferson in your cabinet. In

reality, it looks good on paper, but he's far more interested in

how he would ultimately want to lead.

Colleen Shogan: So eventually he becomes president in 1800 it's

the first real transfer of power, and then the opportunity

to really implement his vision for the United States. And as

you said. Said earlier, his vision is predominantly an

agrarian vision for the future of the United States. So talk

about that. How does he achieve that, and why does he view the

United States as predominantly its future in farming and

agriculture?

Andrew Davenport: Jefferson envisions an Empire of Liberty

for the United States, and farmers are central to that

vision. And he's not just being a planter himself. Through his

reading of both ancient Greece and in ancient Rome, he

recognizes that farmers are among the most virtuous, if not

the most virtuous citizens of democracy or Republic. And so he

is an advocate for this type of independence and this agrarian

independence, and ultimately, as President, of course, will sign

the Louisiana Purchase into being, effectively doubling the

size of the United States and opening that land would have

been indigenous land for settlement by Americans. He sees

that this democratic republic can expand continentally, and

he's one of the first people to espouse that kind of continental

vision an imperial vision of the United States.

Colleen Shogan: Of course, slavery is an integral part of

the future of America as an agrarian society. So tell us

about slavery at Monticello, Jefferson's home and Jefferson's

views on slavery.

Andrew Davenport: Well, Jefferson inherits enslaved

people through his father, from his Shadwell estate here in

Albemarle County, about 50 enslaved people when he reaches

the age of 21 and then he inherits about 130 more from his

father in law, John Wales, upon his death. And so Jefferson will

enslave about 600 people, a bit more than that across his

lifetime, approximately 180 to 200 people at any given time.

And it's not just Monticello. We're talking particularly in

the first couple of decades of Jefferson's marriage. He's

overseeing plantations, not just in Almora County, but further

east in Goochland, south below the James in the counties of

Bedford and Campbell. And these are vast plantation tracts,

mostly of tobacco, but also of wheat. The principal families

that Jefferson enslaved, they include the names of Granger,

Gillette, Hemmings, Hearns, Evans's, Hughes's and others.

And by the end of his life, in 1826, you can look at the names

of the people that Jefferson enslaved, and you can see that

virtually all of them hail from these families that he inherited

through John Wales or through his father, Peter Jefferson. So

there is a degree of stability here within the family

populations, but it's a complicated issue, and it's one

that we try to look squarely in the face Jefferson as a

philosopher of liberty, Jefferson as a slave holder, and

Jefferson as a critic of slavery across his life, recognizing, as

he did, that slavery was a moral evil, but is one that he cannot

rid himself of.

Colleen Shogan: Like you said, Jefferson is full of seemingly

contradictions. What about the issue of emancipation? Because

as Jefferson grows older and time advances, slavery expands

in certainly some parts in the United States, but it also

diminishes in other parts of the United States. So what was

Jefferson's view on emancipation?

Andrew Davenport: Hamilton has this quote about Jefferson, that

he's a contemptible hypocrite, that he's paradoxical. And I

think that those insights, let's call them, from Hamilton,

Jefferson would recognize himself in those statements, I

don't think that they would cause him more or further

introspection. He did that work throughout his life. He knew

that he would be judged for being an enslaver. He knew that

he would be judged for his racist views. Ultimately,

Jefferson entrusts the project of emancipation, which he saw,

especially in the years after the Declaration of Independence,

beginning to take hold in New England in particular, and he

saw some halting progress in Virginia as well, until a

Manumission law in 1806 made it more challenging to free

enslaved people. And he recognizes that slavery is

something of a political impossibility for his time, and

he will not expend the type of political capital that could

have swayed the majority of a populace in Virginia. A man of

Jefferson stature, expending political capital to criticize

slavery and to try and bring about its end could have done

some serious good in the state. He doesn't choose to do that.

He'll criticize the institution privately during his public life

and then ultimately in retirement as well. What he'll

do instead is entrust the project for the next generation,

and that's an example of Jefferson kicking the can down

the road. He knew that that would be the case, but he also

did trust people to do the right thing, ultimately. And took long

enough, and it took a terribly violent American Civil War to

bring about that change, and Jefferson had predicted that,

but ultimately that is what happened.

Colleen Shogan: With our project with In Pursuit, one of the

things we're trying to do is uncover what lesson we can learn

with each individual that we think about and talk about. So

tell us what lesson can we learn from Thomas Jefferson?

Andrew Davenport: I wrote the essay about Jefferson's dreams

of the future, his faith and some of it's quite naive that

the world would continue to progress. And you can see in

Jefferson's own life that he truly believed in change and the

possibility of change. And if he didn't, he wouldn't have made

the transition from being a loyal subject to being a leading

radical in the independence movement, he wouldn't have been

able to envision the kind of different world that he did. So

it's about having a sense of optimism for things to come,

instead of having a sense of total dread or pessimism. I

think Jefferson teaches us how to think positively about the

future, and that's a tremendous gift. And in spite of all his

contradictions, really the massive contradictions, I think

his faith in the future is his most relatable characteristic.

Colleen Shogan: And why is it important for us to think, as a

futurist, in a democracy?

Andrew Davenport: We've got to have belief that this thing can

keep going, and it's been going for 250, years. Democracy is not

perfect, but it's the best form of government that we have, and

we've got to have faith that whoever is behind us can carry

the mission forward. That's very Jeffersonian. The ball of

liberty has to keep going around the globe.

Colleen Shogan: Andrew Davenport, thank you so much for

joining us, for In Pursuit.

Thank you, Colleen.

To read Andrew Davenport's essay on Thomas Jefferson and to enjoy

other great In Pursuit essays and podcasts. Visit in

pursuit.org. In Pursuit with Colleen Shogun is a podcast by

more perfect. The series is written and produced by Jim

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