After the Breaking Point: Rebuilding the Man Beneath

What happens when a strong man reaches his breaking point—and realizes surviving isn't the same as living? Former police officer and men's leadership coach Joe Henderson returns to explore how men can rebuild their lives, reconnect with their children, and move from survival mode to intentional living.

This has been an experience of amazement to me.

Before you leave, if you'd like to watch another

one of the podcasts, click the first link in

the description. We love having you here and

we appreciate all your support. And with that,

producer Barbie and I are out. Good afternoon,

everybody, and welcome to Insights and Straight

Talk. I am Rod Duff. Producer Barbie is alongside

here with me. And today we're welcoming back

Joe Henderson. The last time Joe sat at this

table, we talked about what happens when a strong

man finally reaches his breaking point. Now today,

I want to ask a different question. So what happens

next? You see, a lot of men were raised with

the same instructions, right? Be strong. work

hard, provide for your family, don't complain,

and for God's sake, don't let anybody see you

struggle, right? Look, there's nothing wrong

with strength or responsibility, of course. But

somewhere along the way, a lot of us got confused,

you know, a lot of us confused being strong with

being siked. We learned how to carry the weight.

We just weren't very good at it. at setting it

down. Now, I understand some of that myself.

I spent more than three decades in the machinery

business, building companies, solving problems,

and carrying responsibility. And I've raised

five boys. And believe me, you don't raise five

boys without learning something about responsibility,

patience, and occasionally wondering whether

anybody in the house is still listening. But

life teaches you that none of us is invincible

as well. Joe spent 10 years as a police officer,

so, you know, he's experienced trauma, grief,

PTSD, and anger. In fact, if many of you remember

the last episode, there was that moment, there

was a couple of different moments, but there

was that one, you'll remember when Joe was telling

us the story about a younger son who Who eventually

asked him a question that that cut through the

arm straight through the arm so dad Why are you

so angry? Geez, right? Wow, that's a moment Then

at just 37 years old just suffered a heart attack

So at that point he realized he wasn't just simply

a ticking ball He was a ticking clock now now

stay with me here. Okay, because That's where

I want to begin Once a man realizes he cannot

continue living the way he's been living, how

does he rebuild? How does he reconnect with his

children? How does he repair relationships, you

know? How does he make certain his children don't

inherit the same emotional burdens he's carrying?

Joe is the author of the Meet the Armor. He's

also an ICF certified coach. and founder of Better

Dad Brotherhood. Love that. Look, his philosophy

is simple. Lead, don't blame. Here's the thing,

folks. We may not be responsible for everything

that has happened to us, but we are responsible

for what we do next. That's our conversation

today. So, Joe Henderson, my good friend. Last

time we talked about what happens when strong

men finally breaks. So let's carry the conversation.

I asked you a question earlier. Where do we go

from here? Mate, it's all in the rebuild, but

it's about you becoming authentic. Oh, I like

that. True. Yeah. So I think we spoke about it,

and we wear multiple masks between working, being

at home, being a dad, everything else that we

do, other friendships. But the question is, are

you authentic throughout your life? Because we

know that, for example, I had to put a police

hat on to go to work. So that becomes the hat

when you're at work. The problem was I didn't

know how to take that hat off when I came home.

So it was very hard to separate those. And I

know that there's a lot of emergency service

workers that go through that same thing. Yeah,

it's a big, big struggle because you're doing

it for so long and it's so impactful for you

that you are unable to take it off. Let me ask

you something. Let me ask you something about

that. Why do you think that is? I mean, I know

we're going forward here. So how do we rebuild?

Where do we start? How do you rebuild relationships?

How do you rebuild reconnecting with your kids?

you know, all those things that we've talked

about in the past, but also we're in that opening

monologue. But what do you think that is? You

know, there's a lot of this kind of conversation

kind of going on today, because men are finally

talking. And through this whole, through this

whole, what's it called, toxic masculinity thing

that, so, right? I'm sorry, brother, that makes,

that caught that. That still makes me laugh.

It's crazy, isn't it? Because here's the thing.

We're biological animals, just like all the other

species are biological animals of what they are.

And then, you know, we have evolved just like

other species have evolved, except maybe the

alligator. I think that's the only one that's

still rocks, rock solid dinosaur, maybe a couple

of birds. But we've all evolved. Why do you think?

Was it society that broke us down over generations?

because My dad raised me different than I'm raising

my or then I did raise my kids My kids are raising

me their kids different my grandchildren So there's

an evolution that goes on but along that way

we're in your mindset. Let's Before we go forward.

Let's go back a little bit. How did this all

start? How did we become? first Unable to talk

about our feelings while being toxic, while being

toxic. I mean, how did this all kind of, is this

a societal evolution? I've had a lot of theories

about it. What do you think Minnesota's speed

up right now? Right now? In this fashion that

I'm talking about. Look, I think you've got to

look around as well at what, okay, so social

media right now is playing a huge part in everything

that our young people are doing. I see it with

my boys. They're on, you know, listening to different

things. But I'm fortunate that they'll come to

me and go and have a bit of a laugh and go, hey,

you know, I've heard this and I've heard this.

And then I'll sit down and break it down with,

OK, well, if that's the truth, what is that to

you? Where does that sit with you? Because this

is where it sits with me. So I create a conversation

with them so that way I can give them my perspective.

But I want to know what theirs is at the same

time. Look, if you think about, so when your

dad grew up and my dad grew up and then that

evolution through for them, life was a lot harder.

So everyone had to work harder and become stronger.

Unfortunately, with that became the fact that

they don't talk because they didn't want to show

anything. And then that breeds through because

were living around these environments and I'm

sorry about that I was I was talking to you while

I was off stage there I broke my own rule was

what you just said was that an evolved through

society meaning that life was harder back then

right so in the caveman days everything was obviously

way different and then growing up in the settler

days everything's different but a little bit

more structured more organized we're now you

know farming and doing things who are becoming

more we look more like society at that point

than we did in the caveman but somewhere in that

time men men could have been there gone one direction

or another i think that's kind of where it all

or is it am i going back too far where men didn't

want to talk about it or did they ever is that

a biological thing and you're again we're not

doctors here we're not trying to prove anybody

we're not breaking medical science here once

you do anything like that. But at the end of

the day, have you ever, I don't know if you've

ever even thought about it, but where did it

become where we are biologically different, but

women, you know, complain about every, I don't

want to sound sexist to you. Women complain about

everything and men complain about nothing. Why

is there such a dramatic, you know, gap there

between the way the species act? What do you

think? And it's even a fair question. I don't

even know if it's fair. Look, you know, the whole

man -woman thing, we are very different biologically

anyway. So we react to different things. And

don't let anybody else tell you anything different.

That's 100%. You know, it's just what it is.

It's how we're made. So there is no... Look,

I look at the way my dad was. he was the the

leader of the house. Therefore, what he said

went and that was it, right? That's how it had

been for years and years. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

I think I missed something. Go on. Go on. I like

it. So, that's how it was. Yeah. The man was

the leader of the house. He provided. He brought

the everything home and the the woman majority

of the time kept the household running. So whether

you could argue who was actually the leader of

the house is neither nor there. But in that,

it created this environment that what a man is

and how he is and how he reacts to things because

he had to be the stoic one. So when life and

times were harder, and we're about to go through

and see this again, I believe, I think the world

is starting to go back into this, where life

is going to become harder again. What about life

is going to be harder again? I want to explore

that. You know, I think he just hit on something

that I never thought about that, but is huge.

When life was harder, and during those times

of our society, life was harder. And during those

times, typically the woman raised the family

and took care of the house and the comforts and

those things while the men were bringing things

home. So they were just stoked. So what I say

is the rule. And so it happened. We never evolved

past that. It's kind of where you're saying right

now, men have been stoic because that's how we

were. We brought home all the... And then somewhere

in the men, probably the 50s, 60s, when you said

that, that made a lot of sense. All of a sudden,

somewhere in there, us men didn't learn how to

evolve. It went from being stoic to toxic masculinity

and shut the fuck up and bring home the bill,

bring home the money. That's basically, I'm being

extreme here for theatrics, but there's something,

I don't know if you want to walk with this for

a minute, but that's something there that you

just made a really good point. I don't think

we learned how to evolve being men past the sixties.

Well, OK, so if you think of in that era, what

were a majority of the jobs that men were doing?

Yeah, they were hard labor jobs. Yeah. Right.

So they were worn out. That's what they were

doing. Unless you're in a you're a businessman

or something like that. back in the time, but

majority of the jobs were hard working class

jobs. That's it. And that's how men got their

families through. So they were worn out. They

didn't know how to talk. They just wanted to

come home and relax. I feel like society will

gradually end up going back to, even though we're

going through all of this stuff now, financially,

if you look around the world, We're going back

to having more difficult times is what you're

saying. Continue on with that. I believe so.

I believe so. The world economics, you mean?

Yeah, with everything that's going on right now.

And I think we're going to see a bit of a switch

back to some hard times. And unfortunately, I

mean, we're seeing it here in this country as

it is now. And I don't want to get political

and stuff like that. No, no, no, no. That's fine.

That's fine. general, just give me some examples.

I don't like that. I mean, look at our housing

market, how our kids are supposed to get into

the housing market, I have no idea. Yeah. You

know, that's - That is a world thing, though.

That's a world thing, because this is the first

generation, I think. I think my kids' generation,

which your kids is technically a little bit behind

them. My kids are in their early 40s. That's

the first generation that - live at least in

America. I don't know about the world. But since

the Great Depression will be the first time this

following generation didn't have a better lifestyle

than their parents did. Is that true across the

world where typically the generations that follow

it and now you think we're going to have another

more depressing time? A second generation are

going through this second uh difficult because

one of my kids own their house one doesn't um

but but but it's not easy the one that does it

looks in texas now the one that does lives in

california the ones that live in california are

having a much more difficult time you know that's

also a regional thing but but just in in general

you're saying that we're going to go back into

a a more difficult challenging economic thing

what is that going to make the house look like

Well, that's yet to be seen, but it will become

very, very difficult. Yeah, because, yeah, because

if you look at the way that life has been for

so many people, life has been great. There's

been so much growth over, I've been fortunate.

I've lived through such a growth period, but

we're now about to hit hard times. And my boys

are, you know, 17 and 18. Yeah. they're about

to come into that stage where the world is really

starting to struggle and there's a lot of unknowns.

Now, we can talk about AI coming into the world

and how does that affect the job market? I mean,

I'm hearing things all the time. So I don't know

where it sits for them. I don't know what it

looks like for them. But it will create more

stress within the household. And then you look

at, well, if the house is so stressful, are they

going to want to have kids? What do relationships

look like? Do men then just close up? Because

they will. Because the stress becomes overwhelming,

because they still don't know how to articulate

it, or don't want to be seen to be weak, because

we're not supposed to be. It's what it is. Well,

you add on to that. So that's an interesting

point. Financial difficulties are going to be

adding on a challenge as we were just talking

about. But piled on that, so we had difficult

times in the past and being stoic and managing

the family is the way that we've made it through

those times. Now we're having more of those times.

With men and or women but we're talking about

men here. So with with men not being Necessarily

guided on how to handle this because you said

it they don't want to look weak, but they also

can't look too strong either because the men

today of and this isn't a you know a pity party

for the you know men's pity party today or anything,

but realistically you got to look at it realistic

What you're talking about now is now meshed in

with the inner complexities that society has

been Challenging men and women against each other

and this is our I think as much sometimes I think

governments Like to play in these games too because

if it keeps us in our little boxes We're so much

easier to control if you and I are arguing about

sexism or about whatever then We're not paying

attention to what they're actually Fending us

over in the government. I mean, there's so many

trillions and you talk about hard times coming

up and that's very Realistic that's very possible

cycles. But you know what? There's so much wealth

being generated in just a few Nations that if

the government's didn't destroy the wealth so

badly Didn't waste the wealth so poorly There

would never be, I believe this, especially with

AI coming, that there should never be anybody

underneath any poverty line. That should be something

that would be going away in the future. And the

only way it can is if we get our government officials

back in line, which is a whole other show and

a whole other topic. So we won't get into that.

But I couldn't agree with you more. I'd say that

there's an additional complexity that today's

society with women's life and these other things

that are coming in, and you talked about social

media. I think you said the biggest, most important

thing of all. Anytime something comes up on social

media, don't stop them from doing it. Talk to

them about it. What does this mean to you? What

does this mean to me? What do you think about

that, right? Am I onto something there? From

what you said? Yeah, you have to. You've got

to do it because young minds will hear things

and then take it on as their own if there's no

clarity in it. So, I mean, the perfect example

is Andrew Tate, right? I didn't hear that. Andrew

Tate. Andrew Tote. No, Tate. T -A -T -E. Yeah,

sorry. Yeah, yeah. you know, huge on social media

and he's going about things the wrong way. He

talks, he's very angry. Isn't he? Isn't he that

dude that's very angry, very confronting? Uh

yeah, right? Isn't he? He's very good. He's very

good, very compelling speaker but he's he's he's

I go on with what you're saying because I know

where you're going. I could not. He hurts our

he hurts most men's uh mission. or what or desire.

I mean there's supposed to be a good message

behind what he's saying he wants men to be strong

right but his perception of what that is is warped

because all you have to do is look at how he

made his money as well and how he treats women

and how he does everything else that he does

right and him and his brother right. There's

a lot more to that as well. And all you have

to do is watch the menosphere. That was on Netflix.

Watch the menosphere. There's a guy, Louis Thoreau,

who does a full expose and goes and sees them,

talks to them. And these are all these male influences

that are out there. Mate, they're all hurt little

boys. I watched it just going, you guys are all

just hurt little boys who grew up without a dad

and without a proper role model around. Therefore,

you're trying to put on this facade that this

is what a man should be and this is how it, it's

all bullshit. I've never seen anything where

I've sat there and just, I was actually tearing

them apart while they were. being interviewed

and listening to what they were saying and then

but then how they were contradicting other things

and Mate, it's worth a watch if you want to get

annoyed with why our young men Yeah, it was on

Netflix when I saw it so I don't know if it's

still there but you'll be able to find it somewhere

the Those things just never go away and it's

it's so frustrating because I'll be listening

to some of his stuff And I'll be loving it, but

it just continues. And you can tell, like you

said, there's an underlying really good message

there, but he's just adding to it. It just frustrates

me so much because we already have these issues

coming from all around. We don't need somebody

with the same chromosomes doing a terrible disservice

because It starts off, there's jewels in there,

probably 40 % at least of what he talks about

when he talks about it is gold. But then that

60 % just makes you feel sick to your stomach

listening to how he's destroying the whole message.

And like you said, it's a matter of having role

models that is more about communication than

it is about yelling. And that's what he's about.

Yeah, but also, look, he's very big on, you know,

get out there, get earn the money, you got to

grind, you got to do this, you got to do that.

What people don't see, and it's not just him

either, there's others as well. They're making

money off everyone else who is watching and following

him and this and that and the other. He's living

a lifestyle because he is sucking people in and

they're then, you know, putting money towards

his investments and so on as well. He is the

one that's making the money and he's making it

with everyone else who he's just sucked in. These

young guys who are looking for a leader, a role

model. And they don't have that and they don't

have any direction or really because what you

said earlier that what we there has been no training.

There's been no real how how do men grow up?

It's different now. Well, it could be the same,

but society won't let that happen. And maybe

it should be. It should be an evolution by bettering.

But at the same time, you talked about kids.

My kids, now one of them, they were high school

sweethearts. So they'd been together forever.

I've got a 17 -year -old granddaughter. She just

turned 17. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. In college, they

got married the freshman year. I mean, these

guys have been together probably longer than

I've been. Well, not longer than I've been alive,

but definitely a long time. But the 40 -year

-olds today, that generation sees what has been

and what is now. That's the last generation that

will live my experiences. That will know what

it's like before uh the internet That'll know

what it's like before social media that uh, you

know It and that's the same generation There's

social media generation that are getting married

later men don't want to deal with As much, you

know men want to It's always been go protect

that uh, you know build a family protect the

household There I think there's a lot of younger.

Um men uh young young adults out there that are

like I don't know if I want to get into that

right now or have response because of the cost

of living and because there's still people out

there that are saying you got to pound pound

pound and go after it and that you know and there's

people that want that as I get older I I'm learning

you know I could have done other other things

in my life that would have made me at least as

happy and and fulfill um I think we gotta explore

uh And really work on ourselves to be able to

get more to that. I want to get to some of these

questions We've already been going. Oh, wow.

There's 500 people on already for our second

show You know our you know our deal, right? I

asked the questions as they bring them up and

you make you read the comments and reply back

to them So I'm gonna do Michelle made a comment

then ask the question. So I'm gonna I'm going

to have you do both of these, OK? So go ahead

and read what Michelle has here. Oh, she's just

gone high. Yeah, yeah. Just wanted to check in,

say hi. Now, why don't you go ahead and read

this? I really like this. You know, what was

your first step? Great question, Michelle. Why

don't you read her question and go ahead and

roll right into it, would you? Yeah, yeah. What

was the first step Joe took toward rebuilding

his life? Stripping away the dead weight. Oh,

go into that. Dig into that. Yeah. So over time,

if you think about we go through a lot, there's

a lot of ups and downs, there's a lot of negative

events that occur throughout our lives. That

becomes something that we carry physically and

emotionally. So you need to strip back whatever

that is and then it'll allow you freedom to be

your authentic self. but it's got to start with

identifying what those things are. There's things

that, you know, you can go, like if your parents

went through, say, a difficult time and you saw

it in regards to being, especially if you're

a teenager, like that's a very moldable time

for you and an influential time for you at that

age. So if you've seen something that your parents

have gone through, and it's stuck with you, it

might affect you in your relationships as well.

And I know many people who have gone through

that. I've coached men who it had happened, but

they had forgotten about it. But it was still

sitting with them. And it's until you start to

go a little deeper that you find out what has

sat with them and is still stuck with them that

is actually then affecting their relationships

moving forward. and what that looks like for

them. So you've got to look at yourself. You've

got to put yourself in front of a mirror and

identify exactly what influences or what events

have influenced who you are now and what decisions

you make and how you make them. Isn't that kind

of the whole key at this point? It's important

to rebuild ourselves. And I'm on that journey

myself now. I mean, through the show, There's

a lot of eye -opening and thought process opening

and so forth that have occurred. But what I'm

discovering is there's that point where you want

to leave the emotional burdens, the lessons,

that you want to leave the bad in the past. We

can't fix everything today, but what we can do

is fix what's moving forward. That's kind of

what you were just laying into it a little bit,

leaning into it a little bit right there, wasn't

it? Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you don't fix things,

and it's not even sometimes it's not even about

fixing things. It's about giving events that

have occurred the perspective that it actually

requires. There's space. Because we give, when

things occur, we give it our own perspective,

right? Yeah. But then once you go through it,

you'll learn a new perspective because you've

already been through it that was you know some

of these things can happen years and years ago

I mean we're talking from what if you're a teenager

right so now here you are in your 30s 40s life

has moved on but what you don't realize is emotionally

you're still carrying something that's still

affecting you but you can't see what that is

and that's the problem that is uh that The way

you put that as a period on that sentence. That's

the problem It's it's it's all about I mean everything

is about coming back and rediscovering within

yourself and being honest with yourself And you've

said it a couple of times talking that out Do

you think we're getting a little closer to that

as I mean there's what eight billion nine billion

people on the planet and you know, how many lived

in a civilized society and don't you know, there's

a combination that, you know, but out of that

group that is a civilized society and that we

move forward, how do you think, are we getting

better? Are we on? Financially, there's something

coming that you think is going to be causing

difficulty as men and maturing and starting to

realize that we need to look within ourselves.

Is any of that trending in the right, in a better

direction? And we don't have eight billion people's

notes here with us. But what do you think? I

mean, are we getting, do you hear it in social

media? Is there more talk? We're still fairly

younger guys. I'm sure there's people in their

90s that see something different. But what do

you think? Look, I still think that there's,

and you touched on it before, unfortunately,

I think with the drive of separating people and

creating distance within, which comes from up

above, right? Creates friction and then pulls.

And no matter what side of the aisle you talk

about here. What's that? It doesn't matter. It

doesn't matter the political persuasion you're

just talking about. No, that's right. That's

right. In general itself. Yeah. And it's about

creating segregation. And what you've got segregation.

The community is always battling itself while

up top is making all these changes that no one

sees or hears because there's too much of everything

going on with the community. If the community

came together and would stop infighting, it would

change everything because then governments don't.

have the power to just create all these issues

and go well in the background we're going to

do this and do this and do this because you're

too busy looking over here and too worried about

what's going on here with men's rights or women's

rights or you know whether uh women should be

able to get abortions or you know red blue uh

red blue red pill blue pill you know what I mean

like there's so many different scenarios out

there and some of the stuff that I hear that

they're people are arguing about. I'm like, are

you kidding me? How does this affect you? So

the unfortunate part is society has been gradually

segregated and we need to, as a community, just

put our differences aside. Everyone has differences.

Everyone has different viewpoints. You might

have different viewpoints to me, but I'm happy

to sit and have a conversation about it. And

I'd love to get an understanding on things that

I may have a different viewpoint on. So that's

the difference. I want you to read this banner.

This is the thing about the show and you just

hit on it. Read that banner. Sorry, read which?

Oh, the banner. So you see the banner reading.

Wait, wait till it starts up again. But I want

you to read that as that scrolls through because

I was doing this earlier. But go ahead and read

this as it scrolls through. Yeah. So when was

the last time that you were curious enough to

change your mind? On something. Right? I mean,

that's the whole thing. We're on this arc right

now. It's funny you mention that. It's not funny.

It's coincidental, but it's awesome that you

mention it. We're on an arc right now. It's kind

of comparing certainty to curiosity. You know,

certainty is what's killing us right now. Like

you said, you heard something the other day somebody

was arguing about. I'll say one out of the gate.

I'm religious and I have my religious thoughts

and I believe in the I believe in the bible,

but um, I also Think it's stupid for me to argue

about I mean, I don't think it's good but uh

The why we have one of the largest arguments

between men and women During political battles

or during the political times is abortion It's

like, are you and what's worse is they're calling

it women's health care. Well, that's a lie. That's

not true. But it all comes down to the terminology

they use and you can notice it all the time.

That's the problem right there. Those terminologies

that we don't pay attention to that soften this

argument or or help that argument. And then and

then it just becomes like you said, the shiny

objects that we run around and get. Oh, look

at that. Let's argue about that. Meanwhile, they're

they're dicking us pardon my language, but they're

dicking us in the in the in the in the tax in

the tax I mean hell 16 trillion dollars a year

the US spends over that and and and most of that

believe it or not is social Over half of our

budget is social welfare. So I you know, and

then a third of it is military well, and then

the rest of it's just how can I line my pockets

or empower my own be, you know, or whatever that

is. And again, we're going through the same thing

here. Yeah. That government is just why I was

spending for what our population is. And the

problem is social media then boots it up for

depending on how, you know, let's face it, the

news and the political party choose your news

that matches up with the party. they're either

doing everything right, the other person's doing

everything wrong, or vice versa, and social media

is just the tool that they use to have us chase

our tails all day in and day out. The funny thing

is though, that comes with that, and I think

there's a big driver now for a lot more honesty

to come through, right? We've got so many people

who are now in social media, they've got their

own platforms, and so on. So we've got a guy

over here, Carl Stefanovic, who was on TV media

in the morning shows. Anyway, he got the OK to

go and start his own podcast. And then he interviewed

someone on his podcast who they didn't think

fit their mold in regards to the news media.

He lost his job. Oh, my God. Right. But yet.

Carl Stefanovic, and I've got time for the guy

because he really gets what it is to be a struggling

Australian in this country and he wants to fight

for the little guy. So his podcast is now taking

off because he is talking with people and his

whole thing is people need to know what the truth

is. You can't make a decision or understand the

truth if you don't hear all sides. Whereas when

in the media, he had to go down a certain line

and that was it. Well, you just explained it

right there. That was that was the the the the

opposite position. I mean, so his morning show

was obviously tilted a certain way that couldn't

allow for whatever it is. So so to my point,

there's some political persuasion there. Fortunately,

I think. I think legacy media is really giving

away to this platform, not necessarily us, although

I'd love to think that we have an impact somewhere.

But to long form media, because we can talk about

the whole story, both sides and back and forth

a little bit. Let's get to Rodney. How can fathers

rebuild trust after years of emotional distance?

And this is a big deal. You know, there's a lot

of emotional distance that are over the generations,

I'm assuming. What's the first step? How do you

start? I guess it's, well, it starts with you,

to be honest. It does. Everything starts with

you. It doesn't matter what's going on. You've

got to look at you. It doesn't start with anyone

else. So emotional distance, you've got to ask

yourself, why was there an emotional distance

to start off with? Were you working too much?

Were you just overwhelmed? Were you overloaded?

You've got to be honest with that. But then you've

got to have an honest conversation in reference

to who it is that you've had the emotional distance

from. You have to sit down and have a real, raw,

honest, open conversation. Say, and I apologise.

I understand that... This is where things were

at. This is what how I was. I understand now

and I apologize and I want to make it better.

But it's got to come from you. It can't come

any other way. You have to move that that ball

forward. And then when you say that you're going

to do something, you have to do it and you have

to stand by it. That's the only way that you

gain that any trust back. Let me ask you this

on that on that topic. Let's say there's that

if I've had emotional distance. That's not that

that first of all, I've got to recognize it first

step, right? You've got to recognize that you're

in that boat then you have to be honest with

yourself that you're in that boat and and then

but how How do I if I don't you you don't know

what you don't know, right? So I is a man a father

and our grandfather How should I recognize or

or is there any kind of? Is there any kind of

thing that I would want to do just to check to

make sure that I may need to have that conversation?

Maybe I just never realized it before. I'm talking

about older generations now here. Is that a thing?

This is the thing. You can always tell by the

way that your relationship is anyway. You can

always tell, right? Yeah, yeah if if there's

a there Okay, so being Present with someone and

being emotional available creates trust So if

they can't trust you they're not going to come

to you for anything So therefore you're not having

those conversations. They're not coming to you

to have conversations those vulnerable open connections

that you have, especially if it's with kids,

I didn't refer to what it was, but I'm guessing

with kids, then it breaks down the trust. You

have to have that emotional connection that creates

trust. They know that you're there for them.

You're not there for you. You're not using them.

They trust you. But they know that they can trust

that they can come to you whenever something's

going wrong. No, I I'd be well, I know this for

a fact as a matter of fact, I said the show has

been a lot of Work on me. I'm the luckiest guy

in the world. Look at I'm getting an hour of

free advice here, right and I get that every

day right in the different things that we do

and So Let me go back to rot here and then I'll

pull it forward And what Landrick's saying here

You said you said the thing that I think most

of us men who are in this situation Don't want

to hear and it's because you know when you trust

somebody and you know when somebody trusts you

There's there's this frequency, right? We all

have a human frequency and it's like, you know

when somebody's walking up behind you right because

it's six foot so The thing you have to do what

you just said is you have to first recognize

it. And then you have to be man enough to say,

okay, I owe my kids, my ex, my other relationship.

It's almost like, I don't know, I was in AA,

I have been in AA, and my family is, and I've

grown up with a lot of stuff. But in there, it

talks about when you have to give it over to

a higher power and all of that. But you also

have to own up to it. you know, the steps, right?

There's the 12 steps, whether you know them or

not, but there are those 12 steps and things.

And along the ways in the fourth area, you're

talking about what you may have done. So this

is hopefully is the nearest traumatic because

alcohol and drugs and, you know, that just destroys

families. But then there's this point. And so

that fourth step, you know, this is where You

have to be mature enough, emotionally mature

enough. You have to be grown up enough. You have

to be that man enough to be able to say, I'm

sorry. But first, to be able to say, oh, I recognize

that lack of trust. That's what it is, right?

Yeah, 100 % it does. You've got to identify it.

But then you've got to be able to acknowledge

how that would have affected and then their journey

as well, and then apologize for that. That was

my shortcoming, and I can see how it's affected

you and how it's now affected our relationship.

That is the best way to come at it. And you know,

I think people think it's harder than it actually

is. I've only lived my life through my own filtered

eyes, my own mind taking in that information

and all that. You were referring to that earlier.

as far as how we take in information and our

beliefs come out of that. And that's why being

curious to me has become such an important thing

because I thought I was doing it. I have lived

a very good life and I've done some good things.

But as I look back, it's amazing how if you're

just that much more open and honest with you,

if I would have started this show 10 years ago,

I could imagine what what what mistakes I wouldn't

have made in that last decade or so and i'll

still make mistakes for human and it's just the

way the way life is but Lanarkin's got an interesting

uh question and I think he's somebody who's listening

intently to what you're saying and judging from

his equal gray I assume he's uh dealt with some

similar situations um so what helps men feel

safe enough to become vulnerable? I think that's

a fair question. Even though we're going through

what we're going this conversation right now

with, I think that's still a very fair conversation.

Because I think that especially for those men

that have opened up to people in the past, their

partner or something, and then that partner threw

it up to them later on to win an argument, those

are real things. So that's a fair question. That's

actually the most probably unfortunate part of

it. is that when, and I hear it a lot, right?

In regards to, you know, well, I opened up and

I was trying to do this and then, you know, she

slammed my head between the door and rah rah

rah, it got, you know, it got brought up and

it's been used as a weapon now against me. And

that's really unfortunate in regards to that.

And you said you hear a lot and it happens a

lot. It does. It does. which is why I'm a big

believer that men need to have their own community

of trusted men around them to be able to have

open conversation and work through things. You're

going to get good advice, you're going to get

probably some shit advice as well depending on

what the environment is around or what someone

else has gone through in their own opinions on

certain things, right? But you've got to have

trusted people around you that you can have open

conversations with when you're going through

stuff. To me, men bounce better off other men

who have lived those experiences as well, right?

But they're not ready to stick the knife in your

back either, right? And it's not going to then

get brought up. in an argument in 10 days time.

And the next thing you know, you're walking around

the house feeling like a piece of shit. You don't

want that, right? And it's out there and now

you know it's gonna be potentially out there

again. That's right. Then you know that she's

walking around with a sledgehammer waiting to

use it whenever she can. And unfortunately, women

do that. Men do it as well. They're both as bad

as each other. when it comes to that right but

not all not all men and women are the same but

you know you you brought up an interest sorry

sorry about that did you wonder there's this

comedian and i'm going blank on his name right

now he's right now he's one of my favorite comedians

and mainly because he's really really smart i

mean he's funny but but he also uh he's a he's

a english dude tall thin, always wears a three

-piece suit. Do you know who I'm talking about?

He's got a very crest that swears a lot. No,

no, no, no, no. He wears a three -piece suit,

very gentlemanly. He's been around on this scene

forever and ever and ever. I kind of wish I could

remember his name. You'd recognize his name.

But anyway, he says this. I heard him say this

about two weeks ago, and I went, wow. Sorry,

my dogs are getting bored. They're harassing

me. But he said this interesting thing. He said

that men and women couples, partners, you should

have your own groups, your own social groups.

It creates a much healthier relationship. And

he said as compared to somebody who completes

you. they should be a part of you and and not

taking anything away from a wife or a husband

or you know but but you just you just reminded

cox i forget his name um but you just said that

that men should have their own social circles

women should have their own social not necessarily

with the opposite sex but they should have their

own social circles because to completing his

point you should add to each other's life, not

completely. That's when jealousy and that's when

other things, you need more. But also when you're

going through something. Okay, okay. So think

about this. I see. When you're going through

something, then you've got nowhere else to put

it but at home. That's a good point. That's a

very good point. And this is not to create divide,

but if a woman has a problem and brings it home,

a man naturally wants to go and fix it. Yes,

that's the other side. Right. It doesn't work

the other way around. I'm not saying all women

are that. And this is why I say that early on.

And sometimes the women don't want you to fix

it. They just want. They don't. We are naturally

that way. That's how we're built. Yeah. Yeah.

So with my partner that I have now, like if she's

talking about something, I'll say, Hey, am I

just a set of ears right now? Oh, you actually

asked her. Yeah. Because, because no, where I

came with it all, like that way I know how she

just wants to offload or okay. Do you want me

to talk through this and let's see if we can

work out how to fix it. That's another level.

That's another level of companionship. I know

at times I just need to have a bit of an offload.

Right? Right. But most of the time I'll just

go on the I'll just jump on the motorbike and

go for a ride. There's my offload. I'm done.

I'll come back and I'm clear. But women love

to talk it everything out and get it out. Right?

This is the difference between men and women

as well. Women offload, offload, offload, offload.

That's literally a difference in how women have

been processed at times too, right? I mean, as

far as the brain, our brain functionality in

most cases are different, right? A hundred percent.

We internalize things and we like to mull over

things. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do it all the time.

I love to do that. Yeah. Some of my best work

comes out of, you know, sometimes you want to

You want to delay something a thought a decision

or whatever? But you can feel it happening back

it back in here or something and then all sudden

it comes to you And it's not because you were

procrastinating although you were but it's because

you still needed your brain to process that out

and women Maybe more boldly do that. Ah, that's

an interesting. That's an interesting Difference,

right? Yeah The other part to this as well though,

right? And I said in regards to men, and you

raised the fact that we should have our own groups

and social groups outside of each other as well.

Now, just like I say in regards to men, men can

have or get bad advice as well through their

group. And it can happen on both sides. Never

go into your groups bagging your partner out.

Unfortunately, with a lot of women that I know

and have known over the time, not my own personal

partners or anything, but other women that I've

known, they have said that they will be a part

of a social group and it turns into a partner

bashing session. where they just talk about all

the negative things that's going on with their

partner and oh my god I can't stand this and

I can't stand that and he does this. Well how

are you then going to come home and be a positive

partner when you get home, when you've just been

around all that negativity? You've got to be

around people who are positive and uplift and

want your life to be better and you know you

have that one person you go oh look we're having

a few struggles with this or that or you know

can we Is there any, what do you think? You know,

us guys do it. We'll go and have a chat. But

we never, we never go and bag our partners out

in front of anyone. It's just not. I think as

adults, we all do that too much. I mean, what's

the goal of saying it unless you heard it from

the person, you know, what gossip is gossip,

right? I mean, it is what it is. That's the end

of the story. always always Um, this is a little

bit different here. I want to I want to I want

to change this a little bit. So how can the father?

state so You mentioned we were just talking about

that. So I want to practice We like to mull over

So how can father stay emotionally present? During

stressful times because I know during stressful

times I just kind of want to I want to make it

I want to fix it I want to get it. That's my

magic. But how do I change it? Look, at the end

of the day, there's a time and a place for you

to sit down and mull over things. When you walk

in the door, your kids want the best version

of you. They want that dad that comes in and

says, hey, kids, how are you? What are we doing?

How was your day? They want that person. They

want you. Not what you were doing at work. And

not what you're carrying. Or what you're carrying.

True. Yep. Yep. Right. So that's the starting

point. Then once you've dealt with the kids and

you've had some time and they've got some quality

time out of you, that's when you can go and separate

yourself a little bit and mull over. Okay, well,

what do I do? What's our plan? What am I stressed

over? What do I actually need to carry? This

is the other part. a lot of people don't understand,

okay, I'm stressed, but why am I stressed? And

do I actually need to carry the stress? Is it

my stress to actually carry? That's the other

part to it as well. That is so true. And it's

continuing to boil back, so I'm trying to find

the cameras a little bit. You know, we've already

done an hour, and there's over 600 people still

here. We have not been on here for an hour. We

have been on here exactly right now, one hour,

one second. Just hit it out. I just feel like

I'm having a coffee with you right now. I love

this. There's a couple of comments coming up

now. So I'm going to have you read, you know

our rule, right? So we talked about Stavros here.

We talked about how that comes and how it really

comes back to being, you know, we really always

have to we talked about some of the stuff that's

going on with social media now and men are getting

a bad rap in some ways and this and that and

you know I didn't want to turn this into a poor

men's you know pride club but but at the same

thing at the end of the day it still does really

just come back to us what we what we're responsible

for so to your point what you were saying you

know how do you How do you handle this? How can

fathers stay emotional friends and do stressful

times? Well, you made the perfect point. There's

a place and a time. And now it's got to come

back to me. I'm a grown human. I'm a grown ass

man. I should be able to now realize and recognize

it. That should. I have to. That's my job. We

talk about taking care of our families, being

the provider for the families. It comes back

to this. We need to recognize what providing

actually is. And it's not just the paycheck.

It's not just the house payment. It's not just

the new tennis shoes or the jar of peanut butter.

It's not the rent payment. It's me. It's what

I have to give to you, which only a tiny bit

of that is money. And yet that's the most of

what we focus on. So the best way that you can

put that. is you're there to provide safety.

Damn. Oh, you did that. You did that. Right.

Well, and that is everything encompassed in one.

Yeah. It is safe. It's the one thing. It's the

whole. Yeah. Yeah. If you think about it, let

me just finish this. Sorry about that. If you

think about it, it's actually more important

to have me because that's where either these

bad habits in or good habits start in the next

generation. We're talking about generational

wealth now, not just financial generational passing

on my assets, right? If I'm passing on a better

me, my grandkids, my great grandkids on down

the line is better. Go ahead. You were going.

It is. I mean, I think I spoke about this last

time when we were together. And, you know, when

we've got so much going on, we're in that tornado.

And yeah, I remember that. Yep. Yep. And also

when you when you come home from work, you have

to take that hat off and go, right, I'm about

to walk in the door. That hat's off. I'm now

dad. Yeah. Only dad. Yeah. When I walk in that

door, I am dad and I'm a partner at home. I don't

drag my shit from work in behind me because that

would just make life at home difficult. And it's

crazy now that you say that because now that

you say that, when I'm going out, when I was

running my machinery business, right, so I had

a meeting. I knew what I was walking into that

conference room for. I'm doing this. I have to

take my hat off now that I'm out. That never

really, that needs to be taught more, you know,

in the generation, like you're teaching your

sons who are going to teach their sons and on

and on and on, or and or daughters, because I

mean, it's just as important for the daughters

as well, because you as dad, I've bred daughters,

I don't have daughters, but you as dad are their

first ever love. Yeah, right. You will be the

example of who she holds as the standard for

her mate. Right. So So it's just as important

to girl dads, my boys and girls. And we've talked

about this, because you're her first love, right?

And same thing with a woman and a mom and her

son. That same sort of thing is effective. But

again, we're talking about men here. But I also

think it's really important that we just don't

give that enough thought. responsibility. No,

it's not. Go ahead. Go ahead. You're gonna say

something. Look, the the biggest thing that you

can give your kids is a way to be able to move

into adulthood. They don't know everything because

they haven't experienced everything but knowing

that life is going to throw curve balls. Yeah.

Life is not just an easy road. You know, you've

gone through high school and you've just lived

this life and all your bills are paid and all

you need to do is just turn up to school and,

you know, have great friendships and so on and

so on. Life's a party at that age. And I told

my boys, hey, enjoy this while you've got it.

Absolutely. Yeah, I hate going to school. I said,

mate, it's going to be very different once you

leave school and you're in the big bad world.

Then you're going to be going, geez, I wish I

was back at school. Yeah, they never want to

hear that, do they? No. So, I've said to both

of them and and it was funny because grade 11

and 12 which is our high school years. Um I said

to both of them, throw yourself into everything

and enjoy it. And they did. I think in what you

were talking about a little bit a second ago,

didn't we talk about uh your kids should be able

to see the dents in your armor. You know, remember

when we talked about that? Yeah. Okay. And that's

part of the lessons. They they they watch they

learn more from watching you than they do listening

to the lessons that you want to teach them more

or less right you are showing them how they should

be yeah and there is nothing that they that you

do that they are not taking notice of yeah they

are taking notes on everything mentally they

are taking notes on absolutely everything And

they're simply not even aware, not consciously,

it's just, that's nature. There's fun just there.

That's exactly it. Every time that they walk

in and say, hey dad, yeah, can we go and throw

the ball? Sorry, Matt, I've got a meeting. I've

got too much work on, sorry. I'll get to you

later. Mental note, they've just learned. Yep.

That's how you gather. That they'll go, no, I'm

not gonna go, I'm just not gonna ask anymore

because. I keep getting told it'll be later and

then later becomes too dark and therefore it

doesn't happen. Right. And that's disappointing

on top. Oh, massively. Massively. You're not

only not giving your kid you and this is not

this just this just an interaction just goes

through that moment but you're not you're not

only not giving you that your kid you right there's

that But then there's that layer on top of it

that there's also that moment of Discipline you

you've just added a moment of discipline not

being mean not being I mean you you're just doing

your thing But we don't think about that enough.

No, why don't you read what life has? Great show

joe's story is incredibly powerful Thanks mate.

Appreciate it. It's obviously just something

i've lived so Been there, done that. Well, we

talked about it earlier, I think. I think I was

talking to you about this. We do the show. No,

somebody else, your guest that's coming up. But

we do the show because it's about empowering

the great middle class, right? That's the theme

of the show, right? When you're curious enough

to change your mind about something. But I get

to that only because And there's nothing wrong

with being an elite. I'd love to have $20 million,

a billion dollars sitting in my bank account.

Nothing wrong with being an elite. But elites

have access to a lot more stuff because they

have money and they have more ability to get

stuff like this. And that's why I do the show

is because if you just live your life and then

you happen to stumble on this, maybe there's

some things that you're doing in life you just

didn't realize. You're on autopilot. That's what

we're talking about, is being on autopilot. Well,

shows like this give you the opportunity, at

least I hope it does, to be able to spend some

time with some thoughts and hear them all the

way out, maybe ask a question, jump on and make

a comment. Why don't you read Mary's comment?

Yep, so Meryl Mars, this is such an important

conversation about emotional strength. It is,

and unfortunately, you know, with the world the

way it is, men are doubting who they are and

where they sit in society. It's not just America.

It's here as well. It doesn't matter where you

are. It's the problem that men just don't know

where they sit in this current society that has

been built. They've been torn down. You come

at something and stand your ground with your

own beliefs and it might, but all of a sudden

you're overpowering or hold on a minute, who

do you want me to be? You know, you stand in

front of someone who's trying to confront a woman.

Now I was very big on this. Like you never hit

a woman, right? And I've been like that for years.

You just don't do it. And I will stand in front

of people who were looking to try and do it out

in the street and everything as well and try

and talk them down and so on that before I was

a cop as well. So my big thing is do you make

sure that you're a reflection of who you are?

People will see through you all the time, but

they will read and see who you are through your

actions. Your actions. That's the legacy you're

leaving, leaving behind, right? It's the actions

that you could. What's Neil saying? Your actions

are worth more than a thousand words, you know,

I mean whatever those those things are It's it's

the old wives tales to use an old term that that's

are so true and and and that we've just kind

of gotten away from ourselves and You made the

point. We've got to kind of come back and find

ourselves again. Why don't you read? What I said

real estate I believe what he's saying, he's

got a question here too. Okay, so Joe's journey

is incredibly inspiring. What would you say is

the first step towards moving from simply surviving

to truly living? That we haven't talked about.

That's huge. I love that one. I guess it comes

down to what weight do you put on the material

things compared to actually having connections?

Bam, that's so big right there. That's such a

big, go ahead. The funny thing is, like I do

motorbike trips with mates. Like there's, you

know, it can be six to 10 of us that will go

away at any one time. And we'll just go and do,

you know, a two night trip or even just a one

night trip and just get away. And one of the

guys actually said on the way home from a trip,

you know, have you ever wondered what the meaning

of life is? Like, what is the point here? They're

still cops and they know that what they do is

a job and so on. And I said to him, I said, mate,

what we're doing here right now, this is what

life is. This is what it is. It's community.

It's our group. We're here for each other if

anyone ever needs it. That's the essence of who

we are. And we should be able to be there for

a community. It always has been. previously,

but now people have become very selfish and self

-absorbed. And it's all because of, I believe,

because of social media. And look at me, look

at me, look at me. Oh my God, look at this. You

know, here's a two second moment that I've taken

a photo in front of a statue. Don't give a rat's

ass. You know what? You've had a great holiday.

Good for you. But I don't need to see all of

it. So I don't see it. Oh, it has. It has. It's

made people so much more self -absorbed. How

many people say that they've gone and checked

on their neighbors lately or they've checked

on anyone lately just to see how they're doing.

People don't do it anymore. They're sowing it

for themselves. Everything is about a community

of people. It's the connection. Human connection

is what everyone wants. But yet they're not willing

to give it at the same time. Yeah. I was going

to say something earlier when you were talking

about, what's the guy's name? The guy that we

were talking about. Oh, yeah, now I've forgotten

his name. Whatever his name. The problem that

we were bouncing around there is, and I wanted

to say it, we got off on a different subject,

but that's the hardship that I see. society going

through, because now we're a democratic republic.

Australia is something similar. We have free

nations, but what we do is the pendulum. Most

of us live here. You know, we were saying that

most of us, you know, if I live on a street,

it's got 10 houses on each side of the street,

and there's a Hispanic family and a small family,

you know, an African family. whatever, different

skin tones and different backgrounds and whatever.

But if I'm living on the street next to you as

my neighbor, I guarantee you, and it's a husband

and wife, couple of kids, typical neighborhoods,

right? Suburban neighborhoods. I guarantee you

that everybody along that street has the same

concerns around the dinner table. And that's

why societies are so important. You talked about

it. That's why governments want to keep, whichever

wants to keep us in our boxes because if I was

talking to you and you and him and her and Joe

down there and this mall over there and we were

just conversating about the problems that one

of us is going to come up with a watch party

and an idea and a movement and be able to get

our lives back to us. With that, it always comes

back to emotional maturity. It comes back to

looking at ourselves. It comes back to defining

a role that you're gonna take in life and not

just living it in cruise control to the beginning

of the point. Michelle, she's made a couple of

comments on here today, but how can emotional

intelligence improve father -child relationships?

That's an obvious, of course it is. But how does

that work? And how do you get what would you

define as emotional intelligence? How about that?

It's amazing. Look, to me, emotional intelligence,

being present is a huge factor in that. So understanding

to to write. I mean, you have to be there to

build. That's right. You have to be right. But

then also understanding that not everything's

about you. Yeah, we're back to. Yeah, it's not

all about you. Emotional intelligence, to me,

comes down to the fact that you can see when

your kid needs a conversation with you that's

a bit deeper. You can see that there's something

going on with them. I'll give you an example

of that. My oldest one, when he was younger,

early teens, I could see that there was a change

in him. just through, yeah, he was in front of

his gaming more and he was just becoming a little

bit more quiet and just withdrawn and consumed

away from, because he just didn't want to, there

was something going on. And I actually said to

him, mate, look, I can see that there's something

going on with you. Can I have a conversation

with you around it? And he's like, yeah, yeah.

I said, right, come sit down. And we had a conversation

and he didn't he didn't know what was going on.

But I let him know what I could see in him. And

then I said to him, look, I said, are you OK

with me doing the process on you? I said, I'm

not going to put anything in your head. I'm not

going to put words in your mouth. But do you

trust me enough to do that? He's like, yeah,

went through it and it turned out that he'd been

bullied two to three years prior. And it was

sticking with him. It was about his body shape.

He had just a little bit of an odd body shape

for his age, but every kid goes through different

phases, right? Absolutely. You would never know

it when you look at him now, mate. This guy's

like buff. Anyway, he's a beast, right? He's

just a beast. He's down the line, right? This

is who I am. But it turns out that He was had

started swimming again for school. So what does

that mean? That means you're in the change rooms

getting undressed and changing and He didn't

want to do it and it had made him more withdrawn

because he just didn't want to do it anyway went

through it got him to offload it tears were shed

and Overnight that kid changed now I tell you

that story more for the fact, oh yeah, he changed

overnight. It was like, yep, okay, that's done.

I've dealt with that. I'm good now. Who do I

want to be? Correct. Yep. Right. And the question

for me was, okay, who is Carter now? Who does

Carter want to be? How does Carter see himself?

Oh, I love that name. And then overnight, this

kid just changed. And it was the best thing ever.

but the point of it is emotional awareness is

understanding that your kids at times will just

need you to be there and just be present. And

it's not all about you. And you're coming back

to that. I think that's a thing that we all,

and not just men, not just fathers, not just

young fathers, not just old guys like me, but

we all need to understand that it does come back

to you. You've got to be in the present. all

this this theme. It's it's not easy. It's not

easy, right? You're changing anything. It's never

easy. Well, the the thing is as well, you could

be, you know, like in the middle of, you know,

doing something that you've got to do or whatever

and then all of a sudden, but you've got to switch.

You have to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you go. Okay.

We do it everywhere else. We do it. We do. We

know how to do it. Yeah. But then the most important

people in our lives, we don't do it for. and

Yeah Now Len Rick here. He uh, he made a comment

earlier. I think I'd mentioned it. Yes about

a safe safe spaces kind of thing Where is it?

I don't remember, you know to be safe. I really

appreciate this honest discussion He says I told

you I think he's going through something. It

sounds like he's this sounds important How can

men learn to be vulnerable without feeling like

vulnerability makes them weak? No, it's just

that same back that understanding, you know,

you've got to be, you've got to have the balance.

This is I think this where you brought up needing,

you know, friends, your own, your own, your own.

You've got to look at who your trusted people

are around you, who have been around you for

a while and understand you and stuff like that.

You know, I mean, vulnerability, I want to give

it a vulnerability and weakness. for some reason,

keeps getting put together as they are two in

one. And it's not. And it does. It does. To be

honest, to be fair, they aren't connected that

way. In our mind. Yeah. But vulnerability is

more about, hey, you know what? I'm having a

hard time right now. This is what I've got going

on. I'm just struggling with this and this. Now,

guys are very practical thinkers as well. Most

guys. I'm very practical thinkers, right? And

we always want to try and solve a problem, yeah?

It's like having a car in front of you and you've

got 10 mates around and we're all trying to work

out what the problem is, right? That's how you've

got to look at it. But at the moment, you're

the car. That's the difference, right? The car's

got a few issues. Oh, there's a couple of spark

plugs that might be a bit loose or whatever.

Yeah, I've got a couple of spark plugs loose

at the moment. What am I doing? What's going

on here? I just need to reconnect these and spend

a bit more time here or not walk through the

door and drag my shit from work in the door.

That's how you do it. But you've got to look

at it differently. That's so true. And again,

the show is here so that we can connect on it,

whether it's right now. By the way, there's a

couple of people from my work, from my old job.

that are on here as well. I love when that happens.

I'll say hi to you guys in a second. But anyway,

it comes back to being the maker of your own

life, I guess. That's a little extreme because

I'm religious. I believe in God. And I believe

that there's a creator. And I also believe that

especially when we listen. I like to use this

similarity. When you're praying in the morning

or at night, let's say you pray at night. When

you pray, you're talking to God, right? When

you meditate, you're listening to God. Well,

I think through that message I just said, you're

creating your own life and you have the power

to do that. And I think that sometimes we do,

I believe that, We are at an evolution point

now. There's a lot of other things that this

doesn't take into account. But I think we're

at an evolution point now where we have to be

smart enough to realize we have an ability to

change ourselves, and we just need the desire

to do it. And it's simple, never easy, but it's

always simple. It really boils down to that,

doesn't it? Well, 100 % it does. And the thing

is, you just sort of, without doing it, you sort

of pointed on something there is that we've got

so much noise around us all the time. You've

just got to strip back some of the noise and

you'll be able to see where am I supposed to

be right now and who am I supposed to be connected

with right now. Like I said, on a weekend, I

would leave my phone in the car and I would take

the boys to a park. My phone never came out of

the car with me. If someone needed me, they'd

leave a message. My time with them at the park

was with a football or in the park running around.

My only rule was let me have my coffee first.

And they knew. They knew straight away. As soon

as we got there, I would go and order a coffee.

And then I would sit and have my coffee and they

would go and run around. It was a big jungle

playground sort of thing. Like it was massive.

And I'd say to him, right, go and enjoy yourselves

for a bit. And then once I've finished my coffee,

I'll come every time without far. That's how

it worked. And they knew that's going to order

his coffee. All right, let's go and do something.

And then we ended up doing our own thing. Then

you show up and die. I was 100 % it. I don't

know how I didn't collapse half the time running

around chasing them through that bloody thing

all the time. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear

you. I hear you. And listen, Rob Thomas, who

by the way, Rob Thomas, I know this is Rob Thomas,

who's my favorite singer in the world. I don't

know if you know that. I know who Rob Thomas

is. Oh my god. To me, that and He's had an effect

on my life. Some of those, a lot of those lyrics

I know he specifically wrote for me, me personally.

I have gone through my phases of listening to

him. He's an amazing lyricist as well as a musician.

Oh, you got a dog. You got a big dog. What kind

of dog is that? Well, no, he's the thing is he's

not big but he sounds big. Oh yeah. He sounds

like my boomer. Yeah, he's only he's only knee

high. He's he's uh um what is he? He's a roddy

cross staff and um so he's only knee high but

he's got the colors of a roddy. Yeah, but he's

quite sort of short but he's strong, like lean

strong. I love that. Oh yeah, he scares the shit

out of people. I heard that, you could definitely

tell. So Rob Thomas here, he's reading, I'm sorry,

he wrote a comment and then he has a question.

Can you go ahead and read both of these? We'll

do this in honor of Rob Thomas. Yep, so this

message about being present for your children

is so important. What practical steps can fathers

take to become more emotionally connected? We've

kind of gone around this, but what are some?

And you just you're you've been bringing this

up right now. I think it's a perfect time to

lay Rob Rob out here. You know, what are some

of those those practical steps? You know, we've

kind of gone through this. We've only got a couple

of more comments here. But why don't you go ahead

and add some colors to the layers? Look, definitely.

it comes down to your routine as well, right?

So when you're, when you're coming home, yeah,

you have to, you know, and the phone, unfortunately,

now in a household has become such a disconnecting

device in regards to the house itself, because

kids are on the phone, you're on the phone, you're

always looking at it going, I've got another

message. Let me interrupt you. Let me interrupt

you. I want to, I want to add to what I said.

This is the same sort of thing. It's just a little

bit on the edge of it. Why don't you add in what

Kenneth's saying here, too? So what practical

steps can fathers take to become more emotionally

connected, which we've been talking about. We're

kind of building on that. But add to that, what

can someone do today to begin breaking the old

patterns? Because you've got to replace a pattern.

You have to. You've got to break it. So I think

these two kind of come together. And then I've

got a couple of a couple of old work fellows

that are saying hi. Go ahead. So it all comes

down to your habits, but your routines as well.

So my big thing, and I'll give you an example,

actually a perfect example of this. I had a guy,

I did a talk at a wellbeing symposium and I spoke

about it was a wellbeing symposium. Yeah. And

I was talking about how you know, the influence

that dad can have on kids as well. And what that

looks like when you get home. The talk was about

something much, much bigger, but there was a

particular parent that was in there and he came

up to me afterwards and he said, look, my job

is very analytical. I'm always analyzing everything

while I'm at work. And, you know, what you said

about being more connected with the kids and

how that influences them really sort of hit me.

And I said to him, OK. I said, well, what is

your routine? I said, do you drive to work? Do

you bus to work, public transport, train, whatever?

He goes, no, no, I want a train. I said, OK.

I said, what is your routine then between work

and home? He said, I just get on the train. He

said, I catch the train, go home. I said, all

right. It's very simple. What music can you listen

to that is going to detune you from work? I said,

it could be Hello Barbie for all I care. It doesn't

matter what it is, right? Something that detunes

you from work to home. And you listen to it every

day, the same thing every day before you get

home. And that will change your perspective before

you walk in the door. I said, also, your kids

don't want analytical dad when you get home.

That's work, dad. They don't want analytical

data. They just want that. So you're not there

to analyze them. You're not looking at everything

that they're doing and analyzing them. They just

want to have a laugh. They want to have some

fun. That's it. They don't care about anything

else, but they just want you at your rawest.

And they want to know their love, which is how

we show it is that I love that. I love that concept

though, because You're literally it's like Pavlov

right Pavlov's dog where where you listen that

your brain will literally Do what you've positioned

it to do? And that's to have that different disconnect

So this one This is the last question. There's

a couple more comments after this that we'll

get into but but Gerard Was he on? How can fathers

teach resilience without hiding their own struggles?

Do you want to hide your own struggles? Well,

there is so many stories I can give to this.

Now, I mean, I think I told you on the last episode

I had open heart surgery and my my young fellows,

they were in high school still at that stage.

So I think my youngest would have been 14. So

the oldest one would have been 15. And I used

that as a point to teach them what resilience

is. So they came in and saw me the night before

I was going in for surgery. And my youngest especially

was emotional, like crying and stuff like that.

So I sat down with them both and I said, OK.

I said, I get that it's emotional and you don't

know what's going on. But what I want you to

take away is that in the next couple of months,

you are going to see me at my lowest. But that's

not what I want you to focus on. What I want

you to focus on is how fast I bounce back. And

what does that look like? Because life will always

throw you those curveballs, as I say. but it's

how you get back up and what do you learn from

it? And you kind of switch that, you put that

around. You're looking for opportunities in this

case. You're looking for opportunities to say,

look, boys, I want you guys to sit down. I'm

going to have some bad days coming up. We all

know that, but I want you to focus on how quickly

I build back or rebound. That's huge. Finding

that lesson. that can then be taught, right?

Yeah, 100 percent it is. So and I'll give you

another one. And this, I mean, obviously he's

talking about resilience and but also being able

to everything without hiding their own struggles,

without hiding struggles. So everything that

we are doing in life and everything that we go

through in life, there is a lesson that we can

teach our kids because they haven't walked that

journey yet. And if you can plant little seeds

about what they possibly will come across as

they're getting older, they will already start

thinking about what you have said in regards

to that because you've got a story attached to

it that has a meaning. That's what they remember

more than anything else. And what they should

remember more than anything else as well, right?

I mean, it ties together very well. All right.

So these next couple of guys. They each both

made two comments, two different companies I

work with. I built machines for 30 years in the

plastics industry, and these guys were in a couple

of different customers of mine, unrelated, but

they both happen to be on here today. So these

next four comments, can you, what I'm gonna do

is I'm gonna have you read these, then I'm gonna

put you in the green room, okay? Then I'm gonna

go into closing monologue. We talked about this

during the opening. I'm gonna put you in the

green listen to the monologue and then I'm gonna

bring you back out for one question that I hope

I can hold it together while I'm asking because

it's It so far. I haven't been able to get through

it without That's that realism that we're looking

for though, it's it's a real realistic moment.

I'm gonna try and make it through But what I

want to do is I'm going to throw you in the green

room here in a second after you read these comments.

Hang out there. Don't touch the green and the

nims. Remember that story? Yeah. All right. So

leave those alone. Barbie, you heard him. He

promised he won't. I only got blue ones today.

Only one? No, I got blue ones. No green ones.

Oh, blue? Okay. Blue's are fine. Blue's are fine.

Wait, you had blue last time, if I remember right.

Anyway, read these comments. I'm going to throw

you the green room. And then I'm going to bring

you back out for us to close it together towards

the end. I'm going to ask you one question. I'd

like you to two, three, four minute answer. And

then we'll wrap it up together at the end. You'll

see what I mean. All right? No dramas. All right.

From survival to intentional living is inspiring.

It is. It makes a lot of sense to be intentional.

Go ahead. Yeah. So thanks for sharing these real

-life experiences and lessons. And then here,

oh, no, he says, gentlemen, go ahead. This is

Matt Walker. Very good guy. He calls me every

once while we talk. He's out in Chicago. But

anyway, I'll read what his comment is here. Uh

so another fantastic topic. Mister Duff. Thank

you gentlemen. Alright brother. Thank you. Last

comment. I'll throw you in then I'll start the

uh the closing month. Um okay. So from that again,

do you agree with the following statement? The

parent's job is not to make sure you have happy

children. It is our job to prepare them for the

world when we aren't around. Oh wow. Brother,

you are so money. That is exactly what I talk

about with my boys. Because at the same point,

I'm not going to be around forever. And I need

them to be able to know that they can stand on

their own two feet and make the decisions that

they need to, but also come back to everything

that I've taught them about what they can possibly

confront. It's still about they've got to have

happiness. You're creating memories. Yeah, and

I was going to just happiness happiness will

will happen by you creating itself, right? If

all this stuff, right? 100 % of you're going

on holidays, you're doing different things with

them. There's memories and there's happiness

in that anyway, right? Because you're there.

But the exactly your last sentence there is exactly

what I'm big on in regards to teaching our kids

what it is to be out in the world and be able

to stand on your own two feet and make clear

decisions and what they're going to confront.

What does that look like for them without stripping

them of their childhood as well because they

still need a childhood but you want to prepare

them for adulthood at the same time. Yeah and

that's something we stress on. regularly is,

you know, in high school should be that way,

is preparing kids. Oh, don't even get me started

on that. That's a whole other topic we want to

get into, definitely want to get into with this.

But I'm going to throw you in the green room

and I'm going to close off and I'm going to bring

you back out. And Matt, I want you to listen

to this because I think you're going to really

get a lot out of this question. I'm going to

ask Joe here in a second. So give everybody a

big wave until I bring you back on and keep your

fingers off the green air minutes. All right,

Joe before I told you we're gonna do this a little

differently today. And so before we finish There's

something I've been thinking about and I want

to bring you back on the stage to ask you one

more question Here a little bit. You'll see what

I Because I spent decades working in the machinery

right in that business and and when machines

broke down You couldn't always fix it by replacing

the part that failed. Stay with me here. You

had to ask, well, why it failed? Was something

out of alignment? Was it operating under way

too much pressure? Were the warning signs just

ignored? Because if you didn't fix the underlying

problem, you'd put that machine back into service

after you replaced the part, and eventually it

would break again. Okay Human beings aren't machines.

I'm not trying to say we are but but there's

a lesson there Sometimes rebuilding our lives

requires more than just repairing what finally

gave out You know that finally gave what you

have we have to look at the anger the silence

the habits we were just talking about the pressure

and sometimes The belief that asking for help

somehow makes us weaker. Joe, one thing I appreciate

about your message is that you're not asking

men to stop being strong. You're asking us to

consider, to reconsider what strength means.

What is the definition? There's strength in taking

responsibility. There's strength in apologizing.

their strength in listening, and their strength

in looking at your child and saying, I got that

wrong. I'm working on becoming better. I've raised

five boys that you know. And now I've mentioned,

the older I get, the more I realize our greatest

legacy isn't necessarily the businesses we built,

or the money we earn, or the things that we accumulate.

It's what our children carry forward After we're

gone to Matt's point. So so Joe I want you hold

on That's that. I'm sorry. I so Joe I want I

want to end with one question. Okay Imagine one

of your sons sitting across from you 20 years

from now. He's grown Maybe he's raising children

of his own and he says, you know dad I I remember

when things were difficult. I remember watching

you change. Joe, what do you hope he says he

learned from you watching his father rebuild

his life? My friend, the floor is yours. Give

me three, four, five minutes. Wow. That guy.

I practiced that a few times. That's definitely

a hippie reflective question. It is. Wow. What?

What do you hope he tells you that he learned

from watching you rebuild your life? Well, it's

been what? Five years now and ongoing. So after

25 years of you rebuilding your life, what do

you hope your son says to you that he learned?

Wow. That anything is possible as long as you're

able to and willing to confront the difficulties.

and the difficult conversations that you need

to go through. It all starts with the difficult

conversation. I didn't hear that last part. I

was talking over you. My bad. Full stop. It all

starts with the difficult conversation or difficult

reflection. That's where it starts. And believe

me, on the other side of that pain is freedom.

I love that. Because you know what? If you don't

ever go through that pain, you'll never realize

what that freedom is, Steve. You know what, Joe?

Thank you so much for coming back and to everybody

watching, remember this. You don't have to wait

until everything falls apart before you decide

something needs to change. So if today's conversation

made you think of father, son, husband, brother,

friend, or yourself, share it. Share it with

them, because sometimes one conversation opens

up a door. I'm Rod Duff, alongside producer Barbie,

and this has been Insights and Straight Talk,

empowering the great middle class, one conversation

at a time. Take care of yourselves, take care

of each other, and remember, a man's greatest

strength may not be how much weight he can carry,

and maybe knowing when to put the weight down.

so he can embrace the people who matter to us.

We'll see in the next conversation. Joe, wave

everybody, he and I. Before you leave, if you'd

like to watch another one of the podcasts, click

the first link in the description. We love having

you here and we appreciate all your support.

And with that, producer Barbie and I are out.

Come on, you and I both know we can show our

dance.