LARRY JOHNSON : Ukraine to make Patriots! Iran called (again) Wants a Deal Badly - Syria Wins.

The fastest way to misunderstand the US-Iran escalation is to treat it like a single “strike and response” story. What we’re watching is a collision between agreements that got shredded, a choke point that can’t be ignored, and an energy system that runs on specifics most of us never learned. Larry Johnson joins us to lay out how a memorandum of understanding supposedly limited threats and military action, why he believes the US violated it, and how Iran’s enforcement posture in the Strait of Hormuz turns shipping into a permission-based system with real consequences.

We get practical about the part that quietly drives the urgency: oil and refinery reality. Not all crude is interchangeable, and many US refineries are engineered for heavy sour crude that’s essential for diesel and aviation fuel. That detail changes how you think about the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, how long drawdowns can really last, and why a closed or restricted Strait of Hormuz threatens far more than gas prices. We also look at the broader supply chain impact, from LNG to industrial inputs that ripple into everyday costs.

Then we zoom out to the uncomfortable strategic picture: Iran’s signals about reconsidering nuclear doctrine and the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the limits of US force projection in a world of hypersonic anti-ship missiles and drone warfare, and the political vacuum when Congress doesn’t assert war powers. We also confront the moral and narrative whiplash of praising extremist-linked factions in Syria, and we play clips that show how public opinion is shifting as Gaza footage breaks through media filters.

Subscribe for more deep dives, share this with someone who still thinks “oil is oil,” and leave a review telling us what you think the real off-ramp looks like.

Chapter Markers

• 0:00 Overnight Strikes And Big Questions
• 1:30 Sponsor Message And Free Report
• 2:05 How The MOU Fell Apart
• 6:45 Iran’s Strait Of Hormuz Rulebook
• 12:25 The Oil And Refinery Problem
• 18:20 Nuclear Signals And NPT Pressure
• 23:50 The Limits Of US Military Power
• 27:40 Congress Missing And War Aims
• 34:05 Rebranding HTS And Syria Policy
• 39:15 Moral Injury And The Death Culture
• 46:15 Gaza Clips And Israel Support Drops
• 53:30 Wrap Up And Where To Follow

[SPEAKER_04]: strikes between Iran and the U.S. continued to escalate overnight with approximately 170 U.S. hits in Iran and numerous U.S. bases in the region targeted in response.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is this continued to escalate and also President Trump sang the praises of the al-Qaeda franchise in Syria and is moving to take them off the state sponsor of terror lists, which is

[SPEAKER_04]: rather curious for a lot of us.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to why I'm sure today and that can only mean one thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Larry Johnson is here today to talk about all of this in a little bit more and he's coming up next.

[SPEAKER_04]: Alright everybody, it is Thursday, July 9th, and we are once again live, and before we get going, have a note from our official sponsor.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But all right, so we have Mr. Johnson here today.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, great to see you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Great to see you.

[SPEAKER_04]: As always, I always look forward to talking to you and I, you know, get to cash in on my free polo shirt that my mom inevitably sends me every time.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, so your mom's not into the Florida Hawaiian shirt, huh?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, she's not, um, and I got listen to mom and well, she's a, she's a, she's a pull off from Western Pennsylvania.

[SPEAKER_04]: So issues of style are a little questionable at times, um, but not to stick on that pattern.

[SPEAKER_04]: But man, Larry, um, who going into yesterday was, uh,

[SPEAKER_04]: I did not see all of that coming and where we're at right now and it's uh I got some thoughts on it but I was really hoping that uh you could give us a quick rundown on

[SPEAKER_04]: how all of this devolved into where we're at, and then we'll get into maybe where it's going in a second.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, the simple answer is the United States is violated every section of this MOU with Iran.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the first paragraph of that MOU stipulated that the United States in Iran would basically they'd stop military operations against each other, and they'd stop making threats against each other.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Iran's upheld that, the United States hasn't.

[SPEAKER_05]: The control over the straight of her moves.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what's most interesting is the paragraph five of that MOU identifies that Iran and only Iran.

[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't mention any other country.

[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't mention Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, or the United States.

[SPEAKER_05]: simply says that it's Iran's responsibility to figure out the safe passage of ships through the Strait of Hormuz.

[SPEAKER_05]: And nowhere in there does it say Iran cannot enforce protocols.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in fact, Iran put in place what's called the Persian Gulf Strait Authority, PGSA.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we need in this world.

[SPEAKER_05]: One more acronym.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in that they stipulated that anybody wants to come through the strait of Formus must submit an online, they got a website, you know, on type in, you type in the name of the ship, the name of the captain, the destination, the cargo, the nationalities of the crew.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the IRGC, who handles that, will review it and prove you go in through.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, it's designed to shut out Israel, that no ships are going to Israel, or ships that are owned by Israelis who go through Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: And no ships that are going to the country that are friends and supporters of Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: They will no big study.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was the point then, when the United States, I don't think that M.L.U.

[SPEAKER_05]: didn't raise it there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Whoa, wait a minute, we're not gonna do that, no, don't sign up for it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so, and in the protocols, Ron specifically says, ships that do not comply with this procedure will be dealt with with forced hands, you know, that they'd hit him with drones or a missile or two.

[SPEAKER_05]: So let's go back to June 25th, June 26th.

[SPEAKER_05]: We had two straight days where the first day was the 25th

[SPEAKER_05]: and hit it with a drone, and then the United States at night retaliated, hitting some sites along the straight from the, there are bars, Syria, Keshim Island.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I am told by one of my friends who still, you know, involved that it really was not us.

[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't a serious, we're going to, we're going to kill him, wipe him out, kind of effort.

[SPEAKER_05]: And at the same time, well, this is going on, the United States Central

[SPEAKER_05]: for command, Pentagon, they've not stood up the cats again.

[SPEAKER_05]: The crisis action teams, they're operating 24-7.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're still, they've gone back to banker hours, you know, eight to five, five to eight.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and as on yesterday, they're still not active.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that, you get a full-blown major combat operation.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to have to have those active.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: They don't do that without those, you know, how the planning bureaucracy and the military goes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, but for whatever reason, you know, the United States and Iran traded it back and forth on the 25th and 26th, Iran would retaliate.

[SPEAKER_05]: And again, Rodman sort of retaliated in a pro-former manner, and then the United States didn't react.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the United States put together a deliberate, this was the deliberate provocation.

[SPEAKER_05]: They went to the Saudis and Qataris.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, ostensibly, the Saudis and Qataris had negotiated with Iran.

[SPEAKER_05]: But the United States got him say, hey, get your ships run through the Omani.

[SPEAKER_05]: What it is, they want the ships to go through the Omani side of the strait.

[SPEAKER_05]: then the United States use that as justification to attack Iran.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then during that first attack, Iran launched a hundred, according to Donald Trump, a hundred and eleven anti-ship missiles.

[SPEAKER_05]: Iran admitted that it launched anti-ship missiles.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then the yesterday, you know, so are we today's Thursday, good Lord.

[SPEAKER_05]: So on Wednesday, Trump comes out angrily and, you know, we're not going to take this.

[SPEAKER_05]: What that tells me is some of those anti-ship missiles hit the ships.

[SPEAKER_05]: It didn't sink them, but it did cause damage, maybe a few casualties.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so Trump then ramps up to re-strike and then Iran says, okay, fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: The first day, Iran limited itself basically to firing at the anti-ship missiles and hitting Bahrain and Kuwait.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yesterday they expanded it, they hit Bahrain, they hit Kuwait, they hit the two air bases,

[SPEAKER_05]: up in Kuwait, Issa down in Bahrain, then they hit Aloudi, there were four space where there were some KC-135 tankers, and they hit more importantly, Malafak al-Salti air base in Jordan.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this, look, all of this goes to prove now that I'm able to say that kind of stuff Ambrose Beerus was right.

[SPEAKER_05]: War is God's way of teaching us Americans geography.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, man, aren't you right about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm hoping people out there Google and we're all these places are and figure it out But I'm trying to look at the rationale behind this, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's It's tough not to crack, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Don't you look you're looking for sanity in the place in an insane asylum.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, that's what all we had to do

[SPEAKER_05]: was to simply say, okay, hey, everybody fill out the Iranian paper work, go through the straits and the lanes that Iran has laid out.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we know what?

[SPEAKER_05]: We got the world oil starting to flow again.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got container ships starting to go.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're starting to re-energize the world economy.

[SPEAKER_05]: And instead, they said, okay, we're going to start this war up.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, what's

[SPEAKER_05]: people can check it out through two websites, vesselfinder.com, or marinetraffic.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: What's interesting, they alleged that they're tracking all the ships, but they each have sort of a different look, but what is clear, no ships are going through that Omani passage right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would hope not.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, that's all of the books, but all of this is taking place for Iran, there are patients as it has evaporated.

[SPEAKER_05]: And all of this is taking place against this panorama of the burial of the Ayatollah Al-Ihamani.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Americans do not appreciate

[SPEAKER_05]: This is without this funeral that has now gathered more than 30 million people in the streets in present.

[SPEAKER_05]: We don't have anything in history like this.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you can't point to a single historical figure, whether a pope, a president, a prime minister, a dictator,

[SPEAKER_05]: They've never assembled anything like this.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so it really blows up this claim that the Islamic Republic was unpopular.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that the majority of people wanted to rise up and throw it off.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not when you got that many people out in the streets.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's a friggin 115 degrees Fahrenheit.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is the hot time.

[SPEAKER_04]: Excuse me, tell me what look is the hot time of year pretty much everywhere, especially there can't attest to it, but so I'm trying to think about the, but once again, the ration line, and there's there's a whole bunch of,

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's looking for logic in an illogical place, looking to try to find a reason with insanity in the background, but the two things I come back to are one, you had Trump up in front of NATO, and he has this bad habit of every time getting in front of that group or whatever group where he wants to be the big man.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he's there's a litany of actions that he took there from

[SPEAKER_04]: Spain to releasing sanctions.

[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about this in a second on the Syrians to the Turks, where he's like, you know, I'm the big man.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just doing these things unilaterally and instructing Marco Rubio to do something.

[SPEAKER_04]: Or on the flip side is there's some kind of deeper motive to just totally torch the MOU because he thinks he can negotiate a better deal out of this or

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I think what's going on is he's still very much beholden to the Zionist lobby and the pressures of APEC, and again, we have to go back to the original reason for this deal.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's oil, and sort of the corollary to Ambrose Beerus is that it also, this war has taught me a lot more about oil than I ever

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, actually I'm glad I know it now, but I look, I made an assumption that oil is like, you know, like a can of coke, you know, there's no difference, it's oil's oil right, you know, it's black and, you know, bubbling crude.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it turns out that the different sulfur content of oil is important because the refineries are built specifically to handle specific types of oil.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in the United States, we got this really odd situation where, man, we produce what they call sweet crude.

[SPEAKER_05]: Boy, we had tons of it.

[SPEAKER_05]: But 70% think about this, 70% of our refineries are structured, designed, engineered to handle the heavy stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: What they call the sour crude.

[SPEAKER_05]: So like that oil out of Venezuela, yeah, man, we can handle that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It comes off Mexico, Canada, Persian Gulf, and Russia.

[SPEAKER_05]: Those are our major.

[SPEAKER_05]: So what turns out, here's to the United States as a net importer.

[SPEAKER_05]: of this heavy crude, and people say, so what's the importance of that?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what's used to make diesel and aviation fuel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, you can make diesel and aviation fuel out of the sweet crude.

[SPEAKER_05]: if you have the refineries to do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we don't.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what I think most Americans don't understand.

[SPEAKER_05]: And apparently that's what Trump was finally briefed on and understood back just prior to the G7 when he said, we only got four weeks of oil left.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, the timeline on all of this is fascinating, because we go back to 28 February, straight of her moves as close.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know about you.

[SPEAKER_05]: I assumed, okay, man, the oil's done.

[SPEAKER_05]: I forgot to consider there are a bunch of tankers that were already on the high seas that had, you know, filled with oil.

[SPEAKER_05]: So actually, it wasn't a cut off yet.

[SPEAKER_05]: Those tankers had to make their way to the final destinations.

[SPEAKER_05]: and the final destination like to get to Houston or to New Orleans or other points in the Gulf of America, Gulf of Mexico to offload the oil, took about 42 days.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you have 42 days, all of a sudden, you're like April 7th.

[SPEAKER_05]: What happened on April 7th?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, the Trump administration was pushing for a ceasefire

[SPEAKER_05]: with the rod.

[SPEAKER_05]: The oil, that was, that was why it was the oil because they now realize okay, we're running out because just 30 days prior to that April 7th or less than 30 days on March 11th, Secretary of Energy Chris Wright came out in the notes, okay, we're going to start drawing down from the strategic petroleum reserve at 1.4 million barrels per day.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, they were drawing down the sour crude.

[SPEAKER_05]: Again, the sour crude represents about 60% to 70% of the SPR.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when you start, you know, doing the math, all of a sudden, you're going to, all this, all this crude, this oil has stored mostly in what they call salt caverns.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the way you get the oil out is you pump water in, raises the oil up, and then, you know, the equivalent of a guy with a straw sucking it out, you know, so, you know, that's how they get the oil out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, at some point,

[SPEAKER_05]: You've got to keep a certain amount of the oil in those salt caverns or else you get too much water and when water and salt makes you get salt water and then it damages the structural integrity of those caverns.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I said this thing gets pretty complicated but the bottom line is the ability of the U.S. to keep drawing out of that strategic petroleum reserves runs out probably the end of

[SPEAKER_05]: So we got, so that was, the oil was the thing, and this is, come back to something that Robert Barnes said is, this is not Trump is reacting now emotionally, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: He's not thinking this through strategically, and so that's why I'm laughing about, you know, well, why did they do this, and it's like,

[SPEAKER_05]: There's no 5D chest objective going on here.

[SPEAKER_05]: I guess it's my point.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't figure as much.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm starting to look, as it comes out more in depth, what appear to be like the target packages for us any Ron and we're hitting rail bridges, civilian infrastructure, some military targets, some military targets that are

[SPEAKER_04]: you know, being coughed up on the rain side is just like fishing boats like we're saying we're hitting fast boats and fishing boats.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I can't help but wonder.

[SPEAKER_04]: And also, oh, we hit the infrastructure outside of, uh, let me get the pronunciation right here.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, the Bashar nuclear.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Which is looks like a deliberate attempt to cut power.

[SPEAKER_04]: And there's the whole background of what constitutes a war crime in all of this.

[SPEAKER_04]: You have the secondary and tertiary effects, it has to impact the military more than the civilian side.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's not like we're breaking

[SPEAKER_04]: What point do you think the Iranians really draw a hard line?

[SPEAKER_04]: How much longer can this go on before they basically hit the reset button and say, okay guys, out there, good luck?

[SPEAKER_05]: I think only another day or two.

[SPEAKER_05]: They've already, they came out one of the leading members of their legislature came out and basically said, we're going to rethink our nuclear doctrine.

[SPEAKER_05]: reconsider our nuclear doctrine and withdraw from the N.P.T.

[SPEAKER_05]: the non-polliferation tree.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's sent in a message and that goes back to something that, you know, Pepe Escobar and I had reported, you know, now more about six weeks ago, that well, the Iranians instead of threat to Trump and the White House had looked.

[SPEAKER_05]: I either you need to appreciate service or about this or, you know, we're going to detonate, we're going to do a test demonstration show that we can do a new and then what will be, because there's growing sentiment in Iran that with a nuke, nobody's going to mess with them.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that's the message that is, you know, with nobody messes with North Korea.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, growing number of Iranians are saying,

[SPEAKER_05]: That's where we're going and with Ali Hamani, I mean, he was adamant about not building the nuke.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's gone now and as much as he was beloved and as much as, you know, we're seeing the outpouring, you know, 30 million people coming out for his funeral.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, to run, calm,

[SPEAKER_05]: Najaf and Al-Mashad, you know, he's an influential figure, but there is growing pressure in Iran that the recognized, the United States has lied about everything, and so they say we can't trust the Americans, we're no kitten, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: with you.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean it's a it's a cornerstone of our former policy.

[SPEAKER_04]: This point is not following through on really anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm sort of not sequitter here, but I've been reading a bunch about the command cheese recently and the Indian Wars and the one thing that underpinned our relations with them was betrayal.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, and it's kind of common themes.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Cherokee look what the look what was done to the Cherokee, you know, I'm I'm happy to say at least I have an ancestor Charles Thompson.

[SPEAKER_05]: who was the Secretary of the Continental Congress, he actually, he's the document we see today.

[SPEAKER_05]: He hand wrote that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was his handwriting.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's his handwriting.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's cool.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he was the first one to read it out loud.

[SPEAKER_05]: But growing up, he dealt with the Delaware Indian.

[SPEAKER_05]: and the Delaware Indians gave him the name of the man who is honest, because he intervened on their behalf against the pen family.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now remember, he's in Pennsylvania and the pen family is sort of like a combination of Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos and they were the ultimate oligarchs they owned everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they were trying to steal land from the Indians.

[SPEAKER_05]: and Charles will wait in with the on behalf of the Indians and the Indians won.

[SPEAKER_05]: So one of the few times the Indians could chalk up a victory and they didn't have to scalp anybody.

[SPEAKER_04]: So with with back to Iran here real quick.

[SPEAKER_04]: Excuse me.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, there's a couple of different things here that I pulled up last night and this morning while trying to sort through stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, one is, you know, the thought in the back of my head, this can't increase our leverage at all by doing this.

[SPEAKER_04]: We did have me to begin with really, but there was, uh, there was a commentator in, um, in Tehran at the Center for Middle Eastern

[SPEAKER_04]: There's a, we got a quote to put up, but in short, basically what he's saying is that Iran kind of tiptoeing around this is being interpreted as a sign of weakness.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're showing flexibility.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're being very deferential and keeping the escalation game kind of tamp down a bit.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, do you see this as the case, um, and at what point, um, but we're really kind of got to the what point that they run out of wrote, what do you think they would do, um, or they're going to do of Trump as a back downs.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't really see how he walks this back, considering what they've been hitting over the past 24 hours.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I, I, I run, they do gradual escalation and, and so, um, you know,

[SPEAKER_05]: we hit some bases then they expand.

[SPEAKER_05]: So now that we're hitting this infrastructure, they're going to expand to infrastructure.

[SPEAKER_05]: I fully anticipate that, you know, unless the United States basically stops and gets a message back channel.

[SPEAKER_05]: and we got some indication of that yesterday when Trump said the Iranians were calling him begging right for the negotiation no that tells you the United States is now back channel begging you know to pack instead okay see if you get the Iranians to calm down and talk to us

[SPEAKER_05]: But I think Mr. Avass captured exactly what's going on that the US interprets the Iranians of willingness to be to talk as weakness, now the lesson that should be learned by us.

[SPEAKER_05]: is our entire strategic doctrine is it's predicated upon 20th century concepts that are no longer relevant in the 21st century.

[SPEAKER_05]: Example, we project one of our triads for projecting force, carrier strike groups.

[SPEAKER_05]: great.

[SPEAKER_05]: Those carriers strike groups are wonderful until you run up against a country that has hypersonic anti-ship missiles, but you can't defend against and they can touch your reach out and touch you a thousand miles out to sea.

[SPEAKER_05]: So guess what?

[SPEAKER_05]: The Houthis ran us out of the Red Sea and now the Iranians have us, you know, you're too young to remember, but back in 1987,

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm telling old guy stories now, but about 40 years ago, one of the guys that have worked with his State Department, Paul Evinco, he was a Navy SEAL commander, and he had established the Hercules Barge, which was a floating platform, and just off the coast of Bahrain, because this was the days of what we call the oil escort operations.

[SPEAKER_05]: You could bring in aircraft carriers, destroyers, cruisers, they didn't have a problem.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the Iranians were laying mines, but that was the extent of their capability 40 years ago.

[SPEAKER_05]: Today, we don't let those ships within 200 miles of the Iranian coasts because they could light us up.

[SPEAKER_05]: So all of a sudden, the naval power that we thought was going to be so decisive, that's been weakened.

[SPEAKER_05]: Ground forces.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you know, back in 2003, you know, back when you were in, we assembled 165,000 troops and Kuwaitan and Saudi Arabia.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that took about 11 months to move everybody into place, but the guys that were sitting there in the various camps,

[SPEAKER_05]: They were, you know, there was some fear that they might get hit with a stray scud missile, but Saddam really hadn't perfected that, and it wasn't an important part of the Iranian arsenal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Today, those troops assembled like that, did be fending off drones and short-range ballistic missiles.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in fact, they'd have to go underground.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the time required to build underground shelters takes a bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that leaves you with air power.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now in the whole realm of quote, air power, we find out, God, to build all these, I didn't, somebody laid out what, building the Patriots like the Pack 3 Missile or Erdogan Fence.

[SPEAKER_05]: You've got at least 20 different subcontractors, different parts, each one has to test the part and by the time to get the parts assembled, it takes like two years.

[SPEAKER_05]: Plus, you've got this thing called rare earth minerals that the Chinese control that are also an ingredient in making that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, in other words, our entire military posture has been weakened.

[SPEAKER_05]: We don't have the independence, we don't have the industrial base to support it, we don't have the supply chains to support it, and yet we put these folks out there and then they begin discovering the limitations of U.S. power now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, and that is very unfortunate.

[SPEAKER_04]: I wish it was more understood at the top because it's one thing when you're a guy on the ground and you got to eat a missile.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a totally different one when you can just wave a thing or a point of somebody in there.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that gets into executive authority here, which is, this just confuses me.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know where Congress is right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is, it feels like this is the the lamest.

[SPEAKER_04]: dissolution of a legislature in the history of the world.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I mean, at least in Germany, we got a fire in the Reichstag.

[SPEAKER_04]: But there's no, there's no authorization for any of this.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you could make an argument.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think that there was some kind of threat to US ships.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you're just hitting targets on the coast and kind of freeing up international shipping, but they're hitting inland.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're hitting rail bridges.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's pretty dangerous moment, I think, for the Republic, generally, it's like almost like the last gas, if you will.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and again, using violence for violence sake instead of what's the goal?

[SPEAKER_05]: What's the objective?

[SPEAKER_05]: Are we trying to weaken Iran to the point that they'll come and say, okay, we give up?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I guess on the superficial level, that's what we're saying, but the reality of what's being shown right now with these Iranians with 35 million in the streets, that they're showing a level of commitment to their country, and to their cause that we don't have,

[SPEAKER_05]: We couldn't, I don't think we could turn out 35 million, even if we're given away free bars of gold.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe folks might show up for that, but we've got this situation where the person Gulf for the sake of the world economy, it needs to be opened, and it's not just the oil, it's the liquid natural gas, it's the helium.

[SPEAKER_05]: 40% of the heat, and that's not getting fixed any time soon, but helium that goes to make computer chips.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why you're going to be paying $2 to $300 more for your Apple products this year, and so it starts spreading out.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're re-assault for both for

[SPEAKER_05]: fertilizer, as well as some other industrial processes.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's why China has been pushing, they've been encouraging Iran and working with Pakistan to get the negotiations going.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know the Pakistan's working behind the scenes frantically to try to keep this thing on track.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I think the Iranians are reached a point where they said,

[SPEAKER_05]: No.

[SPEAKER_05]: We've been bending over, and bending over, and there's no more bending over.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to stand our ground now.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the United States, not going to have to promise at some point the future they're going to do X, Y, and Z. I think Iran's going to demand immediate.

[SPEAKER_05]: sanctioned relief.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, and again, here's United States, the one thing they did was they said, okay, Iran, you can sell your oil and the banks that processed the money were not going to sanction them and were lifting the blockade.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you listed that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, then two days ago Scott Besson says, no, the sanctions oil sanction is going back on to the 17th.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, Iran has put out 30 million barrels of oil in the last two weeks, and if you figure that those 30 million each barrel is going for about $100, $110 a barrel, the money that's coming into Iran is substantial.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is the, they're not in the kind of economic distress that the West, again, the stated objective of the Trump administration is, we've got them, we've got them over a barrel, the inflation's high, the people are suffering, and they're going to get this uprising of angry people.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not going to happen.

[SPEAKER_04]: That is never worked.

[SPEAKER_04]: It has never worked as flat out.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I look at Iran a little bit differently and I haven't studied these sanctions for a number of years.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, if anything their pressure tested, they've learned to exist in an environment where their economy was completely cut off from the global stage.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they figured ways around it

[SPEAKER_04]: at this point they have friends which are now helping them so it's not as bad as it has been and i mean you just go back to a rock uh to take a look at how ineffective sanctions are i mean you could punish the people all day long but the leaders don't go anywhere regardless i mean even if they don't support the regime they don't don't go anywhere yeah yeah no and well thank you all the 47 years yeah yeah

[SPEAKER_05]: And it hasn't brought about a change.

[SPEAKER_05]: And what's unfortunate in this is the United States has failed to appreciate the difference with the shea, religious, the shea theology.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is, they're not suicide bombers.

[SPEAKER_05]: They do not encourage that.

[SPEAKER_05]: They don't promote it.

[SPEAKER_05]: They don't celebrate that.

[SPEAKER_05]: The shea have been a target.

[SPEAKER_05]: of the the solophus.

[SPEAKER_05]: These these Sunni extremists and that most Muslims who say are not Islamic but the Sunni extremists that like attacked the United States are 9-11.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh those guys right?

[SPEAKER_05]: The ones we ended up subsequently funding with the likes of Al-Jadra, you know, Al-Jalani now, Al-Shadra,

[SPEAKER_05]: Syria.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they would attack and kill Shia Muslims.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so that was actually one of the reasons that we like to vilify this guy, Soleimani.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was Soleimani was asked by the President Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, come help us fight off these religious fanatics who are being funded by the United States, by the United Kingdom, and by Turkey.

[SPEAKER_05]: because they wanted to weaken Bashar al-Assad.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he was one who actually protected Christians.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can't handle it with.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is, I mean, it's an upside-down world.

[SPEAKER_05]: And our policy is so screwed up.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, contradictory.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you provided a fantastic transition.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just wanted to play the video of,

[SPEAKER_04]: of Al Jolani and his little al-Qaeda franchise getting a pat on the back and shake the hand from Trump.

[SPEAKER_04]: And when you watch it, one of the things that really stood out to me is his body language towards Trump during this whole thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Look at it, I really control myself a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to remove Syria from the state sponsor of terrorism list?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I will, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of help, you know, I think I will.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have, he's done a great job, maybe he would have brought that up, but that's a good question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, problems, I think we should.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will.

[SPEAKER_04]: So on the run end of that is the first, like, minute of it was Trump singing these dudes fricking praises, you know, and once again for everybody out there, I bring this up on a regular basis because I find it comically dark, but also irritating.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's a graduate of Alembar University, congrats to him for running a country, you know, he got his graduate degree just doing good things.

[SPEAKER_04]: That by fellow alumni is out there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Even if he was on the other side, but it's,

[SPEAKER_04]: and I also don't like him because of that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But he's saying this dude's phrase is, and he's going to take a literal franchise of Al Qaeda.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're Al News, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they went through several iterations through that entire conflict, and it was just people rebranding shifting groups and make them a real part of the global community.

[SPEAKER_04]: So what the heck was the global war on terrorism, even all about?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, it is a wake in the cynicism and a balloon.

[SPEAKER_05]: to recognize Al Jadra, Al Jalani.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was not just some guy who was indirectly affiliated with ISIS.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was involved with the leadership.

[SPEAKER_05]: He got, as is the tendency with these fanatic

[SPEAKER_05]: with these religious extremists, they get arguing over different parts of doctrine, you know, theology, and then split off.

[SPEAKER_05]: So Al-Nusris split off from ISIS, and who was leading that split, Al-Jalani.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then there was, again, the Al-Nusris split, and he formed what was called Hayat Tarar al-Sham.

[SPEAKER_05]: HTS was in 2017, 2018, and 2019 listed in the State Department's annual Country Reports on Terrorism is one of the top ten terrorist groups in the world in terms of killing civilians.

[SPEAKER_05]: He killed, importantly, his group was responsible for the deaths of over 545 people.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they're pretty active and then we clean him up.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, let me just say, we have historical precedent for the United States dealing with people who were involved with terrorism and then rights to power.

[SPEAKER_05]: There was this guy, Manacham Began, in Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: uh... there was yet sought some air also became a prime minister he was part of the stern gang stern gang in the arena were to carry out terrorist attacks in the forties but but you know we cleaned them up and just like uh... uh... alshada uh... put him in a brooks brother suits he got him a haircut except the beard up a little bit i i call it the the queer eye for the straight guy treatment you know

[SPEAKER_05]: And for those who don't know what that is, there's a TV show where four gay guys would take some slub heterosexual who's a mess, they're not addressed and didn't, and they're turning him into this fantastic guy, who knew culture and food, and you got physically fit, that's what we've done to Jalani.

[SPEAKER_05]: We've cleaned him up to making presentable without understanding that even now, and here's Trump saying,

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he's unified Syria.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, he hasn't, and they've continued to attack minorities.

[SPEAKER_05]: The allowits.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Jews aren't particularly happy.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, and you've got within the ranks still of HTS, that now, if transition into part of the military force, the thuggery that goes on, we shouldn't, and we're now enabling it.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's nothing new, but it is just, it's kind of mind-blowing.

[SPEAKER_04]: I really wish that we would just stop doing this kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's one thing, for example, turning it about it historically.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's another to see literally your blood sweat and tears over a course of a period of time end up turning into this, but not exactly surprised, I guess.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, and that's, you know, as you've experienced it, getting, you know, getting deployed in the war on terrorism, that, well, we've got to, these people hate us for our beliefs, they, you know, we're fed a pack of lives, number one, because actually, much of the motivation for some of these groups is what we do overseas.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're, unfortunately, we've killed particularly when you're dropping bombs from 20,000 feet.

[SPEAKER_05]: We've killed a lot of women and children in the system.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, that's, I sometimes wonder if it's that kind of thing that, you know, because we, as you and I have talked about before, we've got so many veterans that are killing themselves.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, the casualties don't stop, we can say, well, we lost very few in the war in a rock.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, then, but the casualties keep coming, right, in the keep coming, and that's got to stop.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, it doesn't have to stop, and it's, I mean, so much of that is, we've talked about as far as, is the moral injury portion of it, you do these things, and you try to figure out a way to rationalize to yourself.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, what it was for, at least the point, the purpose, like at least it was for X, and then you turn around and you see something like this, and I mean, it's not, it's not good for people who are struggling with mental health, they guarantee it at.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, and it's, you know, war regardless of which generation leaves centuries.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was listening to a story of one of the, one of the guys who buck Compton, who went on, he went on to become a judge in California, but he described a friendly fire incident,

[SPEAKER_05]: that haunted him to the end of his days where he and one of the other easy company guys, they saw these two soldiers that they were in German rain ponchos and one was carrying a mouser.

[SPEAKER_05]: They could tell it was a mouser.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they got and killed them, but turned out they were to Americans.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, he was, you know, years later still living with that, that he'd taken the lives of people that were not an enemy.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so this, you know, I wish part of our culture we've got so accustomed to killing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this death culture is, and it's reflected in the fact that, yeah, man, we don't mind aborting babies, unborn fetuses, we change the name, it's easier to kill them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so there's not this respect and sacred regard for life.

[SPEAKER_05]: And somehow I think if we get that changed, if we change our foreign policy, our first response is not, I'm going to bomb you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, with a rod instead of saying, hey, why are you attacking these ships?

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about this first before we start blowing each other up.

[SPEAKER_05]: But they didn't do that because they turned this into, you know, that kind of thing used to experience in 7th or 8th grade where some kid was trying to pretend he was tougher than others and, you know, they end up having to fight.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's opposed to trying to deal with it like an adult and so, okay, let's talk this out and step back.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I could not agree with you more about changing the culture.

[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, just thinking about this as you were talking, one thing that really confuses me is, you know, you learn growing up that one of the reasons that the Vietnam War became so unpopular at home is because you had the introduction of TV.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, almost not quite real time, but like you had you had video of what actually was going on on the ground.

[SPEAKER_04]: and how nasty that fighting was, and what was happening all around you, and they've managed somehow to flip this around in today's culture, where it's like, you, the only real outlet you get for it would be, I guess, like, doom scrolling Twitter or it's X now, to, and see in videos coming out of Ukraine, of FPV strikes, of the reality on the ground, but that's even turned into, you know, they've, they've, like, paralleled this with video games, and it's like

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, actually, let me give you a couple of those statistics.

[SPEAKER_05]: During the 1968, the number of Americans that watched the evening news on CBS, ABC, NBC.

[SPEAKER_05]: Those were the three primary ones, and then PBS, the public broadcasting, you had to make Neil Lair our, so that was basically four.

[SPEAKER_05]: Total number of Americans, back then that would watch the evening news was 53 million.

[SPEAKER_05]: Walter Cronkite sat at the top of that pyramid of that 53 million he had ratings of about 27 to 28 million.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now to put this into context I looked up the numbers for August of 2016 and in 2016 when we had basically a third larger in 1968 I think we had around 200 million Americans.

[SPEAKER_05]: But in 2016 the total ratings for MSNBC Fox CNN and then the major three ABC CBS NBC

[SPEAKER_05]: total for all of them was 28 million.

[SPEAKER_05]: In other words, all these different networks were reaching the number of people that Walter Cronkite by himself was doing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's when the television was in it's still in its infancy in the United States.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he didn't have social media, he didn't have computers.

[SPEAKER_05]: But so my point in that is, actually back then it was a little

[SPEAKER_05]: public opinion.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it was a legitimate manipulation, because once they started showing the casualties, you know, what we were being told by the politicians and what was unfolding on the screen, two different things.

[SPEAKER_05]: And unfortunately today, the way we've had the efforts to try to shut down some social media or like TikTok buy it up so we can control the content.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is, we're still on the plus side we have, you know, shows like yours, where you, you know, people can come watch, they can listen, it doesn't get boiled down to, you know, of 20 seconds sound bites, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And actually discuss things in depth.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I truly appreciate that, and, you know, one of the things I always come back to is,

[SPEAKER_04]: what's so much happens now is they flood the zone with content and then you have basically lies of a mission um they show you what you want to see and therefore what you probably should be seeing it's tucked in the background and uh... christ showed me this video before um the show today and man it's one of those things that i you would you would imagine would be all over the nightly news here but it is not it's being done in our name

[SPEAKER_02]: For a few hours, hundreds of people in Gaza gathered to do something ordinary.

[SPEAKER_02]: Watch Egypt play against Argentina in the World Cup.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the man who made it possible was killed in an Israeli air strike before kickoff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mohammed Awahidi helped organize giant screens where families in Gaza could gather to watch Egypt's World Cup matches together.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was the director of the Egyptian Committee in Gaza, which provides food, shelter, and other humanitarian assistance to Palestinians.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, just before Egypt kicked off against Argentina, a strike hit a car in Gaza City's Sabra neighborhood.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our Heedy, a driver, and two brothers aged eight and ten were killed, according to the director of Shifa Hospital.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Israeli military says our Heedy was not the target of the strike, and that it was aiming for a Hamas militant.

[SPEAKER_02]: For many Palestinians in Gaza, Egypt's World Cup run has become about more than just soccer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Egypt shares a border with Gaza and the team's head coach, Hossam Hassan, has repeatedly spoken out in supported Palestinians.

[SPEAKER_02]: After Egypt beat Australia, Hassan waived a Palestinian flag on the pitch.

[SPEAKER_02]: And before the Argentinian match, he had this message.

[SPEAKER_02]: I ask all athletes in all media professionals of their different religions from their different countries, maybe during the World Cup to send a message, please let the Palestinian people live.

[SPEAKER_02]: Live, they do not want anything just to live.

[SPEAKER_02]: The gathering Muhammad Awahiri helped put together, still went ahead.

[SPEAKER_02]: He just never made it there to see it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, and again, this is, pieces like that, this is not propaganda, or let's say if you need to define propaganda as putting information out that's going to change the attitudes of people, then yes, it is propaganda, but it's true.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not a lie, it's not fabricated, and this is one of the reasons that you're seeing an increasing number of Americans turning against this support for Israel, just in the past it was reflexive.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, Israel was the victim.

[SPEAKER_05]: But now we see that it's Israel doing the killing of women and children and, you know, men like this, you know, he wasn't carrying a weapon, he wasn't advocating violence.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so that's, and again, we've become, we've become enablers of genocide.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, Americans don't like to hear that, and you try to, you know, if you if you bring that up, you really can't have a discussion people people lose their minds.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, the reality is is what the reality is.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we have one more clip here, but to your point, like the Israeli military sum that up is a, oh, we killed an eight in a 10 year old boy as an oops.

[SPEAKER_04]: They got some freaking hoops.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I can't hardly even get through that sense, but so we're gonna cut to the video I'm a manual You know actually go in a set and telling the Israelis.

[SPEAKER_03]: They almost exactly that Prime Minister Netanyahu has done the former to the exclusion of the letter and as a direct result support for Israel is plummeting around the world You've lost Europe Your biggest economic partner

[SPEAKER_03]: and market.

[SPEAKER_03]: Your scientists face exclusion from international conferences and research networks.

[SPEAKER_03]: Your artists and academics are shout out of exhibits and meetings.

[SPEAKER_03]: In 2022, 55% of Americans held a favorable view of Israel.

[SPEAKER_03]: Today it is 37% and it is dropping and among the youth of both America and Europe,

[SPEAKER_03]: The future of both America and Europe, it's even lower.

[SPEAKER_03]: The only diplomat gain you've made in the last three years is Somali land.

[SPEAKER_03]: As my grandmother would say, you lost America, you lost Europe and you picked up Somali land, such a deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: such a deal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and a man he was a bit of a snake.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I've dealt with him before, but to his credit, he's exactly right.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it is the...

[SPEAKER_05]: We're witnessing what I call the death of the Zionist project, because the body count to the Palestinians is in the images of the dead children, that's what's inexcusable.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, look, you think back to when you went through basic training and you were taught rules of engagement and you get a bunch of young guys with guns.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's got to be said that this is where leadership and command structure comes into place.

[SPEAKER_05]: Culture, because that's where these senior gunnery sergeants and they keep the troops squared away.

[SPEAKER_05]: And to know what they can do, what they can't do.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you know, because as you know, you get out of the human nature can take over sometimes and you've got to figure out ways to restrain it, control it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what we've seen, unfortunately, with Trump and his administration, they've got no control.

[SPEAKER_05]: They've got no, there's like there's no moral compass in there saying, what is it that we're actually doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I'm right there with you and some of the best advice I've ever got was from my old man before I went to Ramadi saying, you know, in short, like before you pull the trigger, make sure you think about it first because you're going to live with it for the rest of your life and

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that is a very marine core mentality.

[SPEAKER_04]: At the same time, like we have, you know, it's people like to chest them for the marine core, like you blow down every building, you're the guys you want to send to kill the devil.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like whatever it is, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, there is a rigid discipline.

[SPEAKER_04]: We sat there, I don't know how many times in eight incoming fire, two protects civilians.

[SPEAKER_04]: What?

[SPEAKER_04]: one of the major issues I have with the Trump administration right now is exactly what you're talking about, which is killing for the sake of killing and then glorifying it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Double tapping those Narco Boats out in the Caribbean for... For what?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's completely inexcusable.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, by the way, I find I figured out why knew that your dad was such a class guy, a fellow Missouri.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, he was born in St. Joe and I was

[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's, uh, we got that, we got that Missouri character.

[SPEAKER_04]: There we go.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so it is, so it is my wife.

[SPEAKER_04]: She's, uh, she's from, uh, Salem.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's out the Eastern corner.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: But, uh, but Larry, hey, I always, I always love having you on.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's great talking to you, um, and I get to rock a Hawaiian shirt and you get a polo in the back.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you do it and you do it and you do it well, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Style and, style and profile and, let's go.

[SPEAKER_04]: but all right everybody please check out Larry Johnson on his blog so in our twenty one and he's always got absolutely crack analysis on anything I learned every something every time I go there and it's a pleasure to talk to him but we'll be back tomorrow with Darrell Cooper to talk more about populism and we are going to get

[SPEAKER_04]: needy in the mind wars uh starting in Ludlow, Colorado and working our way through paint creek and cabin creek and we'll see how far we get because this is gonna be a ton of fun and there's a lot to talk about but if you like the show like and subscribe hit that reminder button and yeah have a good day I will see you tomorrow have a good one everybody