The Truth About Women in Combat (Cultural Support Team)| Stephanie Rotolo
Stephanie Rotolo joins us to talk about her path from Mortuary Affairs and MP work to joining the Cultural Support Team program and deploying to Afghanistan with Special Operations Forces. She breaks down CST selection, working with Afghan female tactical platoons, going out on missions with ODAs, and how those experiences shaped her later work in Civil Affairs across West Africa.
Find Stephanie here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-r-d-rotolo-1b01641a6?trk=public_post_feed-actor-name
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"Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio"
00:00 Start
01:43 Stephanie’s origin story and path to the Army
07:20 Mortuary Affairs and working at Dover
12:53 ROTC, commissioning, and becoming an MP
17:04 MP life in Germany and barracks chaos
25:31 Discovering the Cultural Support Team program
28:14 CST selection and Ranger-led training
33:08 Cultural training and preparing for Afghanistan
38:11 Training Afghanistan’s Female Tactical Platoon
48:00 Operations with ODAs, Rangers, and JSOC
58:00 Coming home, reintegration, and CST program gaps
1:04:36 Smokey the deployment dog
1:12:10 Switching to Civil Affairs and language school
1:15:18 West Africa missions in Senegal and Benin
1:26:30 Naples, the reserves, Altru, and final reflections
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support.
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I want to tell you tonight about my
new novel, The Most Dangerous Man, coming out June ninth.
I think, like a lot of you, I read in
high school the short story The Greatest Game, which is
almost a century old at this point, but it's the
classic premise of man hunting man for sport. This book
is based off of that a little bit, but also
on stories that I have heard over the years about
Safari guides that have actually taken hunting parties, wealthy people
hunting poachers in West Africa. That idea kind of cooked
off in my mind when I was asked to write
a novel and get back into writing fiction again. And
this book is about a ranger with the Ranger Reconnaissance
Company who's on a mission in West Africa and gets
kidnapped and hunted for sport by a group of wealthy
tech billionaires. I had a lot of fun writ in
this book, and I think you'll have a good time
reading it. It's quick, fast and furious, fast paced action
action novel, and I hope you all check it out.
It's up there. You can find it wherever books are sold,
the hard copy, the hardback, the soft cover, and also
the kindle ebook edition. We'll have some links down in
the description for you. The book comes out June ninth,
and I hope you all let me know what you
think of it. Hey, folks, welcome to the Team house.
I'm Jack Murphy here with tonight's guest Stephanie Rottolo. She
is currently an Officer Civil Affairs Officer in the Reserves.
Previously served in civil affairs across West Africa and also
worked with the Cultural Support Team, the female teams that
augmented special operations abroad, in her case in Afghanistan, working
with rangers and victual forces. So, Stephanie, welcome to the show.
We're really happy to have you here today.
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3: It was really good to catch up with you at soft.
Speaker 2: Week as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean that's what soft Week is good for.
It's all these people do you only get to see
like once a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. It's a nice mini readion.
Speaker 1: But this year, man, that event, it has gotten so big,
even just from a couple of years ago, it feels
like it's tripled in size.
Speaker 3: I think they said it was like one third more
people this year than last year. It was it was
visible like you could feel it. There was like no
room to move, but it was still a very good
time and.
Speaker 1: They had more security than like at the White House.
It was ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is crazy too because two of the guys
that were working for Tampa PEED, one was a guy
I was a lieutenant with and one was a guy
I was in CAA with working for Tampa PEED. So like,
the military is such a small world, but it makes
it even smaller.
Speaker 1: That Tampa community down there is very small too.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's uh, let's get into you and your background, Stephanie.
Let's start off a little bit with your origin story
if you can tell us, you know, where you grew up,
how you grew up, and sort of like what was
that path that took you towards the military.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So I grew up in Brookville, Maryland. It's like
forty minutes outside of DC Montgomery County. Had a great childhood.
My parents were both public servants, so my mom is
actually still running ears to this day. And then my
dad was in federal law enforce. In my whole life.
One of four, so kind of a big family, had
a great time, spent a lot of time outdoors, spent
a lot of time reading. And then despite my my
interest in reading, I was a really really bad high
school student. I just had like it was just like
the black Sheep wild card kid. Despite my parents' best efforts.
They tried really hard, so that was nothing they did wrong.
It was just I just had had the bug in me.
So I was getting in a lot of trouble, doing
really poorly in school. Somehow, by the grace of whatever deity,
managed to graduate high school, went to community college, and
was continuing to just like be crazy. But at least
I figured out how to get good grades because now
I was paying for it, so just being like absolutely wild.
My dad was doing a couple trips overseas. They were
still still looking for some of like the key nine
to eleven bad guys, and so my dad was out
and about and.
Speaker 2: Again my mom was running an.
Speaker 3: Er, really busy, had three other kids that she needed
to take care of, and so she was just like
done with my can I curse on here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, cool?
Speaker 2: She was just done with my shit, quite frankly.
Speaker 3: And I kept going out getting in trouble, like I'm
just doing bad stuff, you know, rushing up against like
legal trouble like things that probably would have impacted my
trajectory for a while. And I came home one night
after she had explicitly told me you cannot go out,
and my dad was on one of his hunting trips
as we called them, and I was like, whatever, I'm
you know, I think it was eighteen, Yeah, I was eighteen.
I'm eighteen nineteen. I'm like whatever, I'm an adult. I'll
do what I want, even though I still live in
my parents' house. So I went out and God left
my mom. She was also a legal nurse consultant, so
she would go to depositions and testify and so she
had a lot of stuff going on. And I came
home stumbled in and I'm drunk a little bit high,
and she's sitting there working at the kitchen table. And
my mom is from the South Bronx and she has
this really thick accent and she says, where were you?
And I'm like I was out and she just stares
at me, and I'm like, okay, cool, I'm going to
get away with this one. So I start walking up
the stairs and it was like it's like three staircases
and their wood and I'm starting to make it to
my childhood bedroom, which again I'm like an adult living
at my parents' house acting like this, and I hear
the creeks coming up the stairs and I'm like, oh,
this isn't good. So I'm in my room and she
comes in again and again like where were you? What
are you doing? Like who do you think you are?
And I'm like whatever, Like you can't tell me what
to do. I have a job, I'm an adult and
no shit. She picks this giant wooden mirror off of
my wall, my childhood mirror. It still exists to this
day somehow, and smashes this thing over my head, probably
as hard as she could, and I'm like down, I'm down,
I'm out.
Speaker 2: She has one in one strike. It's like lights out
for me.
Speaker 3: I wake up in my baby brother who would later
become a marine. I don't know if this trauma did
something ime what happened, but he's like grabbed her and
like getting her out of the room, and I'm like
coming to and trying to figure out what's going on.
That was kind of when like the light bulb went
off of like, man, I'm really making this difficult for
my parents who are working so hard to give me
everything and you know, make sure I do the right thing,
and they tried really hard to send me up for success,
and I'm kind of being like a giant loser. And
I'm dating this guy that's like junior enlisted in the army,
and like he has a car and a house and
he's going to college and him and his friends are
like doing whatever they want halfway across the country, away
from their parents and being adults, and I'm like, okay,
so maybe I should do that. So right after that,
I went to the Army recruiter and I was like,
what can you do for me? And uh, that's that's
when I enlisted. I finished my associates and shipped out,
and yeah, the rest is history.
Speaker 1: What did your what did your parents think about that decision?
Speaker 3: You know, I think they were well, I know they
were like horrified and scared, and my mom didn't want
to talk to me for a while, But I think
that's probably natural, as like a parent is just to
be scared. I think it turned to pride pretty quickly.
And my dad always laughs that like the easiest time
now looking back in my military career for.
Speaker 2: Him was when I was at basic but he like
didn't think that.
Speaker 3: At the time.
Speaker 1: What about what year was this, twenty twelve? Okay, So yeah,
I mean it's understandable that they're scared seeing the headlines
for the last you know, previous ten years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Uh And you came in the army as a mortician.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so mortuary affairs ninety two. Mic, it's under quartermaster.
And I was going, you know, when you go through
like the list of available jobs with the recruiter and they're.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, that's a good one. This is a good one.
Speaker 3: The recruiter is like, I'm like, wait, what is that
mortuary or something, and like he's like, yeah, you don't
want that. That's weird. And like I was a weird kid,
like super like macabre and just like dark and like
reading and yeah, yeah, just you know, and like going
to warp Tour and think, you know, I was like
so cool and piercing my ears in the bathroom. So
I'm like, oh, that's like edgy. And so I'm like,
all right, well this guy thinks it's weird, Like my
interests are peaud and so yeah, I enlisted as a
ninety two mortuary affairs. My first unit was at Dover
in Delaware and super eye opening. Uh really learned a lot.
I think set the stage for my career to come,
like starting a career out with seeing the horrible final
result of the failures of policy decisions and strategy decisions
and the whole gamut. Like I did not realize the
weight of that at nineteenth. I knew at nineteen years old,
like I knew this was a very serious, like sacred
role and it needed to be taken seriously and I
needed to be a profess and really make sure I
knew what I was doing and I knew how to
do it correctly because of the seriousness. But yeah, I
think it only really came to me later, like how
much that probably set the stage for how I view
military service. And also are our leaders that deal in
the blood of America's sons and daughters?
Speaker 1: Do you want to tell people a little bit about
what mortuary affairs does? Because it is an important job.
I mean, you guys receive the dead essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're spot on.
Speaker 3: It's the processing and care of our fallen. So when
I enlisted, there was only nine hundred across the active
and reserve for.
Speaker 2: I think all of the branches, so like Army, Air Force, everybody.
Speaker 3: So it's pretty small. I don't know what the numbers
look like now, but yeah, exactly as you said, I mean,
it's from recovery to interment, so there's a lot involved
in that. I mean, every death is pretty much treated
like a homicide in terms of how the military process goes.
So you do the full autopsy. There is like the
chief medical examiner at Dover is in charge of everything,
so you're not just like going in and doing your
own thing as a private and like the folks at Dover.
If you haven't had a chance to go to Dover
at least like just kind of check it out and
speak to some of the people there. I mean that
is you want to talk about professionalism in the Department
of War, like that is the cream of the crop.
Those people really take it seriously, wake up every day
like doing the worst thing and being there for people
on their absolute worst day, and they do it well
and they do it professionally. So yeah, I mean it's
basically just the whole process. So it just depended on
what part you were going to be assigned to.
Speaker 2: For our like clinical rotation things, I guess is what
you would call them so you could get hands on.
Speaker 3: Because again, it can be very jarring to handle remains,
like if you haven't done that or haven't been exposed
to that. So it's kind of a they do like
an exposure cycle. But we went and supported the Richmond
Morgues in Virginia because it was like going through their
Murder Capital of.
Speaker 2: The World phase for a minute there, so they were
super overwhelmed. So we went there.
Speaker 3: Got some of that hands on training and then also
like that diversity in cases because unfortunately, like what's coming
through Dover or what was coming through Dover was was
pretty much the same over and over again. It was
you know IDs, that type of thing, or like severe
head injuries as a result of an ID, or honestly,
motorcycle crashes like that convinced me that like nobody should
ride motorcycles because the amount of young men coming through
on those tables that were perfectly healthy and had entire
crews ahead of them and were only in that facility
because of a motorcycle crash and largely not because of
something they had done, but something that a driver near
them had done, was like, okay, cool, I'm like a
risky edgy kid, But like motorcycles.
Speaker 2: Ain't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those are going to be fighting words
with some people.
Speaker 3: I said what I said at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I get what you're saying though, And I
mean I think motorcycles are like the bane of the
Army's existence in some ways, because I mean this it's
constantly an issue about the reflectives and the safety gear
they want you to wear and being registered and trained
for that reason because a lot of service members do
wipe out and either hurt themselves or get themselves killed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was eye opening in that regard. But yeah,
I mean overall, the experience, like I said, very formative
for me. I'm very thankful. Again, it's kind of dark,
but I'm very thankful that that was my entry into
the army because I think it it gave me the
perspective to take all of my decisions later on very
seriously that like this isn't hall of duty, Like these
are real lives and I have handled the consequences of it.
So yeah, I was really glad that I made that choice.
Speaker 1: And about what time was it that you thought about
becoming an officer?
Speaker 3: Pretty much when I was in like going to basic training,
so my dad again, while he was terrified and eventually proud,
he was like, if you're going to do this.
Speaker 2: You have to promise me at some point you'll become
an officer.
Speaker 3: So I got into like an ROTC program, came back,
weren't into the reserve status, and then was able to
go to school and just finished two years because I
already had an associates and George Mason. I applied to
like so many colleges. Again, terrible high school student. But
I only figured it out when I went to community college,
and I did really well, probably because I was paying
for it and nobody was like there to hold my hand.
And so I was just applying to schools that I
knew had good programs and that had money for RTC
programs and more importantly, had slots that wouldn't delay commissioning.
And George Mason is is a pretty big RTC battalion.
I had to imagine it still is they had a spot,
it would delay me by like a like a half
a semester or so, but I was still going to commission,
so I really didn't care. So yeah, I think like
when I was going to basic training, once the reality
of like going to basic training, started hitting, and I
wasn't like the cool edgy villa of the ball anymore.
And I had to wear my giant Coke bottled glasses.
Speaker 2: And you know, slick my hair back.
Speaker 3: I think I realized pretty quickly, like maybe I should
listen to my father more. So. Yeah, that's when I
made that decision. So I wasn't enlisted for for very long,
but it was it was enough to at least kind
of get some experience, kind of see what it's like,
at least on the entry level.
Speaker 1: And you commissioned as an MP.
Speaker 3: I did I commissioned as an MP?
Speaker 1: Was that your choice or was it the branch given
to you?
Speaker 3: It was, which I.
Speaker 2: Know is like I don't know. I kind of laugh
about it.
Speaker 3: Now because everybody was like, go am I, go am I,
and my dad was like, go am I.
Speaker 2: And I did not listen to my dad in that scenario.
I went MP.
Speaker 3: But I will tell you I loved being an MP.
I think the thing that kind of swayed me was
I really appreciated the like wartime peacetime crisis mission of
like pretty much, no matter what, if we're dealing with
you stateside, it's like you're having a really bad day.
So I think, again, that's that like trend of like
if this is somebody's worst day, or this is a
dark day for mankind, maybe I want to have my
hands on it. And I thought being an MP was
a way to kind of like be helpful in crisis,
be you know, some kind of like support or guiding
system when there's chaos going on. And I loved it.
I had a great time. Got to do my platoon
leater rotation. We went to Germany. We did a rotation
through Germany, and got to work with the Polits Eye,
which is like I'm sure you've been there, but the
policing like wild, had so much fun with them, learned
a lot, got to see some some crazy stuff because
as we know, soldiers make really poor choices when they
get overseas, and so got to work with like a
lot of different agencies.
Speaker 1: You were doing, you were doing sort of like shore patrol.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I guess, so, yeah, it was yeah. And
then also it was joint patrolling with the Pullet's Eye.
So they had had a lot of the refugees from
the Middle East had come in at that time, and
they were having some pockets of areas where things were
not going great, there was like a lot ofmmunity pushed back,
and then of course US service members wanted to get
in the mix of all of that, or it just
so happened that the neighborhood was next to like the
hottest club.
Speaker 2: So kind of getting to see how.
Speaker 3: A European entity, especially the Germans like handled that was
pretty eye opening and then a great opportunity to work.
Speaker 2: With the Air Force.
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Speaker 1: Bye. What were some of the crazy things that happened
while you were over there doing that job in Germany?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I did get subpoena for Ondnesday. These guys riggers.
Speaker 2: We all know.
Speaker 3: One of the craziest mls is in all of the Army,
which is insane, because that makes no sense. If you're
in charge of like making my parachute, I want you
to like not use drugs. Poor choices. But they like
beat this guy within an inch of his life, a
cab driver in Germany. And then they tried to run
and they ran into the barracks hammerre drunk.
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody was just three sheets the wind.
Speaker 3: But they were so drunk that they couldn't figure out
like they should take their club clothes off and stuff.
And I had just gotten off I worked a midnight
shift for one of my soldiers. Like I was like, hey,
I'll work it. You go like recover, you know, because
that's what like leaders eat less and stuff like that.
So I was like, I'm gonna be cool and like
take the shift. And so I did the shift, and
I'm like exhausted, and I come back and you know,
I'd already turned in like my service weapon, and I
just have my little like duty phone, and I was
staying in the barracks, which is like MP's are not
supposed to be co located in the barracks. But their solution,
so they put like my soldiers on one side, and
then they had the riggers on the other side. And
then their solution for the MP officer to not live
with her soldiers was to put me in the rigor
side of the barracks. So I like, I'm like getting
ready for bed, and you know, have my big sweatshirt
on and my glasses again still super thick. I have
my retainer in uh, and I start hearing like a
commotion down the hallways.
Speaker 2: Like you know how barracks hallways are.
Speaker 1: It's rocket yes, yeah, so you.
Speaker 2: Can hear everything. And so I'm like, oh, that doesn't
sound good.
Speaker 3: And I hear like the I hear like radio chatter
and I'm like oof, like really not good. And I
hear somebody yelling like stop stop, like stop military police,
and I'm like, oh gosh, and like instead of taking
like five seconds and I don't know, like putting pants on,
taking my retainer out like any of these other things,
I just like grab my little baton and my duty
phone and I like ran out of my out of
my barracks room.
Speaker 2: Like an idiot.
Speaker 3: Again, I had the sweatshirt was like down to my knees,
so I'm like kin made as well have been wearing
like a dress.
Speaker 2: But it was like very clear that this was like
bedtime attire.
Speaker 3: And so I like out and I see one guy
like whip past me and the other guy is the
other MP is like crashing this guy into the wall,
and I'm like, where's your partner, where's your partner? And
he's like he's coming, he's coming. And so I'm like
I start yelling like hey, we're down here, We're down here,
because again I have nothing to assist in this scenario,
like I'm I'm dead weight at this point. I'm just
in the way. The next guy comes up and they
start tackling with him, and I hear like you know
that metallic click on, like the part of.
Speaker 2: On like a holster, like the old ones.
Speaker 3: I start hearing that, and this guy is so drunk
he's like reaching for the MP's weapon, like genuinely trying
to like and I hear OCOC. Nobody wants to hear
in a tiny hallway in the middle of the night,
and so they just start blasting this guy and so
he's like he's in this hallway, shoved up against the door.
They're just blasting OC, not their weapons OC. And there
had been like a group of guys that had come
through the hallway, and so I like grab them and
I'm like moving on down the hallway and I'm like
the military police with my retainer lisp, going like get
against the wall. And they're like, who the who is this?
Oh so very embarrassing for me, but I thought I
was taking charge. And then the guy the door in
front of where they're spraying this guy, he opens the door.
That guy now inadvertently gets sprayed. And if you've ever
been OC sprayed, which I have plenty of times, I
would rather be tased over and over again for twenty
four hours straight, like it is crippling to me, and
so he starts screaming. Everybody starts screaming, and then I'm like, guys, like,
I'm gonna go put pants on.
Speaker 2: What can I do to help? And they're like to
have any water?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, sure do So I go in my room,
put my pants on, start pouring water on this guy.
They start escorting down the hallway, and that's when we
realize right in front of the stairwell there's like now
a gaggle of all of this guy's drunk buddies who
are like, oh, there's two MP's, some chick in a
sweatshirt with sandals on, and there's like six of us.
So they're like, we're going to fight you. Like they
start screaming, They're gonna like fight the pigs and all
this stuff, and so just like gets out of hand.
At that point, I had started calling like the duty
sergeant and being like this is where we are, this
is the barracks, like we need people to get up here,
Like I don't have anything to assist with. I have
no handcuffs, I have nothing. So that guy comes up
the stairwell and thankfully he's a big guy, and so
they like are all scatter, like you know, bugs. So
we get outside and I'm trying to get into contact
with the unit's first sergeant and commander, and turns out
like the commander left the country but didn't leave like
assumption to command orders. So there's just like terrified lieutenant
that doesn't know what he's supposed to do, and his
first sergeant is telling him that he needs to get
up in the middle of the night and drive out there.
And so we end up waiting for a while and finally,
like the first stargeant shows up and is like, okay,
everybody out of the barracks. So they just clear the barracks,
like if you were in this section of barracks, you
were coming outside in the middle of the night and
you were lining up, and so we all line up,
or they all line up rather, and we were like
walking along.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, ma'am, since you weren't on duty, we.
Speaker 3: Need you to help like validate who was there, who
was part of the like fighting the cops gang, and
like who you saw in the hallway.
Speaker 2: So I'm like okay.
Speaker 3: So I'm like walking around the thing and I'm like
not you not this guy. This guy definitely not this
guy and I point to one and I'm like this
guy for sure, and he's like, man, fuck you bitch,
and my soldiers is just like and so then it
just turned to like a scuffle all over again, and
it was just like it was just like a crazy night.
I was like, this cannot be real. At least I
put my pants on at some point during this. So
all that happens fast forward. A couple of the guys
that got arrested during that ended up getting arrested like
a couple of weeks later. Like I don't know why
they were out or what happened. I wasn't part of
of that level of the investigation. But they're like in
this barracks and somebody like pulls out a pistol and
like pistol whip somebody's girlfriend. Which you're in Germany on
a military Like where did you get like a free
range pistol to like just hit people with? So I
was honestly impressed, Like it was terrible, but I'm like
this guy like knows people, we should probably talk to him.
And so they end up going to like real prison
and there was this little holding area.
Speaker 2: I want to say it was called Simbach. I don't
know if you remember.
Speaker 3: It was like this weird bass that like felt and
looked like it was abandoned outside of Kaiserschwaten. And I'm
doing like prison checks one night and guess who's in there,
those those two knuckleheads. So I think that was probably
the craziest in terms of like US mill you know,
I'm watching like the pollets, I get after it when
people are not behaving is like fat.
Speaker 1: People do they do?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Like people love to scream police brutality
in the US and like I won't get into that,
but I'll tell you what the polets I can be
doing whatever they want to do. And people do not
pull out their phones. People do not intervene, people.
Speaker 2: Mine their business. And it was very interesting.
Speaker 1: Ah those Germans, oh man.
Speaker 2: And if they want blood, they're taking blood.
Speaker 3: That was like the craziest thing to be like none
of this refusing, Like we're just gonna pin.
Speaker 2: You down and get it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, uh, you know, things like that happen
sometimes when MP's decide to go onto the Ranger Battalion
compound and they end up getting bowled up by a
bunch of privates and I may or may not have
a photograph of a bunch of Ranger Battalion kids wearing
Hawaiian T shirts sitting and laying on top of an
MP car in the Ranger of Battalion compound.
Speaker 3: You know what everybody's got to like, Bully the MP's
a little bit again. I had so much fun. I
was so lucky to have like the best platoon sergeant
in the world. I think that's like, I know, it's
not really underrated. That's what they always tell you as
like a new officer, But seriously, to have like a
quality sergeant, just like an icon that's willing to train
you and work with you and like keep you on
the straight and narrow man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a great guy. We still talk today like
ten out of ten. Very lucky for him.
Speaker 1: So you're having this big adventure in Germany. Uh when
did it come or when did the you first hear
about the cultural support teams?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I got like a oh I had subscribed
to Do you remember S one Net?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I think it went away.
Speaker 3: There was this thing called S one net and it
was like all of the mill purs that came out.
You could enroll and they would just send the mill
Purrs to your email and like they were very yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was in Germany and I was running like.
Speaker 3: Half marathon to a marathon like every weekend with this
first sergeant who was an ultra marathon or so we
were like really getting after it.
Speaker 2: I was getting in great shape.
Speaker 3: It was a really big runner and I got this
like mill per that was like, hey, this thing's coming up,
and I was like, man, I want to get in
on that, but I got to get back from Germany.
Speaker 2: I got to figure out when I can go to
the selection and do all that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I literally just found out about it from
having base level milpers forwarded to me, like very very lucky.
The timing was right because I had heard about it previously,
like remember when Ashley's Wore the book came out.
Speaker 2: There was also some of the cadre in my.
Speaker 3: RTC program had kind of talked about it like when
I was, you know, going through that, and they were like,
you know, this might be something you would be interested
in later in life. And it had just kind of
it ebbed and flowed about when they were doing selections
and if they were making new teams. And so when
I saw that Milper. I was like, this is not
a thing that I can wait on, Like if I'm
doing it, it's happening now. And so I just started
training really hard and thankfully my battalion command at that
time was like super supportive and he was like, all
steam ahead, we will not get in your way, Like
as long as you finish your platoon leater time, Like
good to go for us.
Speaker 1: So what was did you have to go to Fort
Bragg and go to the selection course and all that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I got that had to go. We
did CA selection, went through that, and then once you
did the CA selection, if you got selected for C
A selection, then you would continue into this little board
with Ranger Regiment and then there would be another selection
on top of that that then you would go through
the next couple months of training. So it was like
really great when I got C I had no idea
what CA was like. They asked you, you know, like
why do you want to be C A? And I'm like,
I don't know what you guys are. It sounds cool.
I'm having a lot of fun at the selection, Like
your workouts are great. Everybody sounds really interesting. I don't
know what you are I'm just here to try and
be a CST. But thankfully did make it through that
and got asked to continue to keep trying for CST selection.
Speaker 1: What was it like going to CSD selection?
Speaker 3: It was so hard, Like I said, it was a
really big runner. So, like lifting weights wasn't really a
thing to me. I mean, I had played ice hockey
in high school and then I did one season of
women's semi pro football in DC and I kind of
like learned a little bit about lifting weights, but I
was like running all the way and then showing up
to CST selection and like all of these women are
absolute muscle savages and they can run and they're smart,
and so CST selection was awesome. It was very intimidating.
It was very stressful by design. But even if I
hadn't made CST selection, like just the quality of training
even within the selection itself, Like to go with you know,
rangers to the range every day and shoot for hours
on end and have to train with them and learn how.
Speaker 2: They do what they do, Like you're not going to
get that anywhere else in the army.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, particularly at that time being a
woman in the army, those kinds of opportunities weren't really there.
Speaker 2: It was so good.
Speaker 3: And like the medical training again, ranger medics like best
in class, right, so to be able to train and
learn all that stuff, and then like the tactical questioning and.
Speaker 2: Like the combative slash.
Speaker 3: You found yourself in a bad situation, now fight your
way out of it. Like great training, regardless of if
I made it or not. And again the women, like
women that are going through that selection, like that's top tier,
Like those are quality, cool, smart capable people. So just
the friends that you make through the process too, was
very thankful for that.
Speaker 1: What was sort of your impression of what the CST
program was as you're going through the training, I didn't
really know.
Speaker 3: Like it was very funny to me because in one
of the like boards, they ask you like what.
Speaker 2: Do you think that we do?
Speaker 3: And I was like, what do you mean we and
they and they were like us and it's all these
rangers and I'm like, get terrorists probably, and they're like,
we shoot people in the face, motherfucker. And I was
like okay. They're like can you shoot people in the face?
And I'm like yes, So, like I didn't really know,
so I thought you know, like I had again like
Ashley's War and stuff like that, and just trying to
piece together bits of like news articles that came out
around that. I understood it as like getting information off
women and children in the battlefield because it was fifty
percent of the population that couldn't be accessed, and ultimately
that's what it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like from what you're saying
that the Ranger Regiment was like very intimately involved in
this whole program.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think way more than I expected. Like we
did all of our selection was at Fort Benning in
like the little Rafts compound area. We had to take
the rPAT and.
Speaker 2: Do all of those things.
Speaker 3: That was super fun. That's I learned how to lift
weights there because I did not have a choice. Yeah,
so we did, you know, all their ranges all like
the battle drills, like you know that CQB training like
all of that. So yeah, I mean Rangers were I didn't.
I guess I should have known that there was other
units we would go to once we got where we
were going, But all of our training and everything was
managed by Ranger Regiment, and I think that was great
because again, like who's more professional at like mastering the
basics and showing you.
Speaker 2: How to do it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's really interesting because I think some of
the csts we've had on this show before probably came
into the program a little earlier than you, and they
went through everything at Bragg as I recall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we bounced between Benning and Brag. Yeah, now
that I'm thinking it was between Benning and Brag, but
it was Regiment guys and then Jstack guys. But the
bulk of like what I would call the actual selection
and not the train up was Regiment and then Yeah,
we did a lot of a lot of the ranges
with the j Stack guys, but again they were guys
that come from that, so a lot of overlap there. Yeah,
So I mean it was half and half between Betting
and Bragg. Brag was definitely a more fun time.
Speaker 1: A little bit more laid back than the range of Regiment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also you were just kind of like further
along in the process, and it was easier at that point,
like just being like sore and tired all the time
to just be like, okay, cool, I messed that up
next event. You, Like, there were so many you can
only psych yourself out so many times during the selection
that at like some point you're just like, I'm just
giving it up to whoever is in charge at this point,
and if I die, I die. So uh yeah, it
was just I think it was a lot more.
Speaker 1: Fun any other specific training you want to get into
before you actually graduate from the course.
Speaker 3: We did a lot of like the cultural training because
me and my partner, I know, some of the other
csts that you spoke to that program had so many evolutions,
so I really admire them because, like you know, like
Jess and Sam, like there was not nearly as much
structure around what they were going into and how they're
trained up and selected, So in retrospect and like knowing
how their selections and train ups went, like very thankful
that there was more of a structure around ours, and it.
Speaker 2: Was like, you know, actually targeted at what we would
probably be doing.
Speaker 3: The cultural training was really helpful because me and my
partner ended up getting the Dual Hat mission, so on
top of our regular like combat missions to go out
and you know, get info from women and children on
the battlefield, we also were training the Afghan Special Operations
female tactical batons, So the FTP, So I didn't know
what to expect, Like I had never been anywhere in
the world really, I mean I've been a europe but like,
I didn't really know what to expect. So I was
very glad for like the precursor training on just how
women treated in Afghanistan. I mean, you can read about it,
and you can hear about it, and people can tell
you about it, but you don't get it until you
see it and you live it and you watch it
every day and you have to navigate it as you're
trying to train with them.
Speaker 2: So I was.
Speaker 3: Thankful for that because there's a fair amount of trading
on kind of how to navigate that space as well.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I never really understood what you guys
do or why it matters for a while, because women
don't really have any power in that society, so it's like, well,
what intel are you really gathering off of them? But
we had a lot of duffy in here. She was
a counterintelligence NCO and when they go overseas they have
them do a lot of human and they had her
doing very similar things to what you did. And when
she started describing about what a woman's scorned will say,
oh man, it all kind of clicked and made sense
for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I have distinct memories of this
on one old woman being like I don't basically rough translation,
I don't give a shit about him.
Speaker 1: Please take him, Yeah, yeah, take them away.
Speaker 2: This is where he keeps his stuff that you guys
are interested in.
Speaker 3: You see that shack over there, like, be careful because
it's filled with explosives like please take his lazy ass.
So very interesting. And then also, I mean the children,
like children.
Speaker 2: Are one of our techniques.
Speaker 3: My CST partner, who is the most incredible person in
the entire world, she had dyed her hair blonde, natural
brunette died over there, and I was like, this is
so reckless, Like how are you going to keep your
hair dyet? And like I'm not even bringing razors, dude,
I'm just like the hairyest person on you know, the compound.
Speaker 2: And she died her hair blonde.
Speaker 3: And that was such a tactical asset for us, let
me tell you, because we would come upon like these
like hordes of children, Like my favorite woman was this
like riverbed where all these kids were getting pushed down
because the terror we're doing things up further north, and
they were like flowing through this river bed and we
start talking to them, like the women are like not
being helpful. Nobody wants to talk to us. The I
think we were with seventh group, and seventh group is like, Okay.
Speaker 2: What do you guys want? And we're like cool.
Speaker 3: One rare occasion that we get two csts on one mission,
which i was more common for the earlier teams, but once,
like my team was only six women for to support
the entire country. So you know, they had to decide
where resources were going and how many seats we were
taking and things like that, and long story short, they
pushed them to the side of the riverbed.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to talk to us. Nobody is giving anything.
Speaker 3: Even though we're pulling like all this money, like suspicious
levels of money off of people, you know, passports and
all sorts of things. And I think like the key
thing that we got out of that little adventure was
my CST partner like flipping her dyed blonde hair and
this like probably six year old boy being like mesmerized
and just ready to tell us exactly where he was
coming from. Who was up there when they left, why
they left, and it was all just like the blonde hair.
So that's not obviously like the mission of the CSTS
to like manipulate children into telling you things. But you know,
it's just a it's it's a it's a group of
they're essentially like flies on the wall, like they see everything,
they're internalizing everything.
Speaker 2: They know what the routines are.
Speaker 3: A lot of times there are in charge of managing
the routines right like they just like any woman anywhere,
they want to keep their kids safe. So when it
comes down to it, they they will talk. There's just
ways to to try and get things out of them.
But you got to come and prepared for that.
Speaker 1: And so you were based out of Kabul, and as
you said, you had this dual headed mission where you
were working with the female Platoon part of the KKA,
but also going out on ops too and doing the
more traditional I guess CST mission. I guess let's start
with the with the female platoon. Tell us about them
and what it was like working with them.
Speaker 3: Man, just incredible badasses like it. You know, I hear
so much conjecture, especially today about like women's rights are
being taken away and blah blah blah. I'm like, let
me tell you about let me tell you about some
women and women's rights. So you have the female tactical platoons,
largely Hazara, right, so already a persecuted tribe. We had
about forty two women. You know, they would answer these
vague recruitment calls, often become the breadwinner of their family,
often mothers, wives, daughters, whatever, have to get permission they
sign up to join this thing. They know they're putting
themselves at risk, they know they're putting up families at risk,
and they are all about it.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: Like. It was so funny to me too, because it's
like I was like a first lieutenant when I showed up,
and my deputy was a second lieutenant and we're like,
we're here to train you and be in charge. And
it's like, sure, but the female tactical platoon commander has
been doing the shit for like fifteen years, so like, actually,
she should probably be like trading us on some things.
But it was just like the ultimate exchanging of TTPs.
At the end of the day, you know, we had
just come off of all of these ranges with Range
Regiment and the JSAC guys, and so we're like shit
hot at that.
Speaker 2: So we're like, all right, let's get you.
Speaker 3: Out on the range and like teach you this or
at least like brush up on these skills and make
you really good at this so nobody can.
Speaker 2: Say that you can't shoot.
Speaker 3: The physical fitness thing, like training was a big thing,
like teaching them how to lift weights, teaching them how
to do what they need to do physically, especially when
they're so tiny, and you know, oftentimes they were like
didn't have access to enough food or water, so.
Speaker 2: Trying to navigate around that also just navigating.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Katahas were much better about treating those
women like valued humans. And I don't know how much
of that was because we were watching or what and like,
you know, me and my partner were the third gender,
like we're not women and we're not men in their eyes, right,
And so those guys were much better with them than I.
Then I think that probably the rest of the military
forces would have been. But again it was still you
were like dealing with that aspect of it of like
we are going to leave at some point, the US
military is going to leave. The intent here is not
for us to do every mission together. If we are
going on a mission, it's because we are doing it together,
so that you were prepared to take this from us
when we inevitably depart, Like us withdrawing should not be
a surprise to anybody. It is impending. We need to
go out and do this thing. But it was really cool,
like sending them out not partnered with US, Like being
able to send the FTPS out is like just the
FTP is going on this partner led mission, you know,
no US CST was like that was really cool to see,
is like they're integrated and also that the US is
truly putting partner force missions they are leading them to,
including their using their enablers, their version of the CST.
So that was very encouraging to see. Yeah, just incredible
women that I mean, they're English great, we did a
lot of English classes, we did medical stuff, you know,
sensitive sight exploitation, just kind brave souls. Like we we
thought we were like so bad ass being these women
that are like yeah, we're going into combat units, like
we're putting special operations and then you're like, okay, but
this is like way cooler because these are like forty
two women out of this entire country doing that thing,
but they're doing it from Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: As women, right, right, Uh. I wanted to ask you,
you know, if there was a difference between how you
saw the female soldiers approach specifically the Afghan female soldiers
approached the job, and what the differences were between how
the men approached it, be they American or Afghan, you know,
was there a different way that they went about things.
Speaker 3: I think the Afghan women on like FTP side, were
like very aggressive and very confident.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Because these are their countrymen, right, and so like they
know what these women are going through there, it was
easier for them to pick up on like subtle differences
in like body language and translation. Like when I was
going into a dark compound, I had a translator with me, right,
Like I had my basic commands that I had memorized
and things like that, but like I still.
Speaker 2: Needed a translator to know what is going on.
Speaker 3: They didn't need that, so they were able to be
like a bit more direct and aggressive. I think I
think they just like genuinely really had to give a
shit to be there, Like there is not the hero
worship that like we are we are given in the
US military of like, you know, bless our troops and
support our troops. And if you're in the military, like
you know, for a day everybody wants to call you
a hero. They don't get the luxury of that like
at all, even slightly. So there's no like valor in that,
particularly for the women. Right. So I think just that
that commitment and how seriously they have to take it
and how committed they have to be to the survival
of their country to even be in that position, was
like that should like make you stop and think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to ask, like, did you get
to learn any of the like individual backgrounds of these women,
because I mean that must have been a very interesting
life path that took them to get to that place.
And I'm wondering if they faced being ostracized by their families.
They had to basically elope so to speak, to join
the military.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of them were for more progressive families.
I mean at some point, you know, they had to
either get permission or tell their families that they were
doing this. And then again they were largely like making money,
having to travel like to and from so like let's
say they like went home on leave or something like
that you know, they have to like stash their uniforms
and all their military documentation somewhere because they couldn't be
stopped on a bus traveling with that. But yeah, I
mean I got I got to know them just great
people like just I remain in all of them, very smart,
like educated, if not formally like informally and seeking it
out every day. You know, we all say like, oh,
I'm going to learn another language, or I'm going to
pick up a skill, or I'm going to like I'm
always like I'm going to get into woodworking, and like
I can't even like commit to buying the initial kit
on Amazon, right, But these are not those type of people.
Like they they were like I'm going to learn English,
I'm I'm going to learn how to shoot, I'm gonna
get really physically fit, and then they just get it
because that's what they wanted to do. Yeah. Just just
an interesting like spread of people, especially between like ages
and where they were coming from. But yes, largely Huzzara,
So that was that was a common trend there.
Speaker 1: What kind of operations did they do.
Speaker 3: In terms of like when they were on target, Yeah,
same thing as a CST.
Speaker 1: So real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if we were going into a compound in
the middle of the night and in and out they
were there. If it was going to be a multi
day type of thing, they were doing the same exact thing.
Speaker 2: So everything we were doing, they were doing.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then at the same time, I mean, how did
it work. Were you getting pulled off of that mission,
off of that detail I guess to go out on
actual combat operations with the American side of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, I had a partner, so her
and I would pretty much rotate out, and then when
we would do like the rare combine thing, we would
basically have to go brief the ranger commander and be like,
this is what the training plan looks like for the week,
this is who's handling it, this is what the ftps
are doing. And then another a CST from the previous
rotation had stayed back to kind of fill this like
weird civilian billet, and so we would work with her
to at least like make sure that the training plan
was staying on track.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean you would just have to leave
that was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was only six of us, so there was
only so much you know, moving people around, and then
you know, my teammates and other places were busy as hell, like,
so you know they got to take a knee, like
you're gonna be the one that goes. And also the
other thing is like if you were a CST at
that point fighting for a spot on a plane, and
like you understand the value of the mission, maybe you
don't have the krusty team sergeant that understands the value
of the mission. And it's like some new team commander
who's making the decisi know what the manifest is going
to look like, you do not miss out on an
opportunity to be able to go support and show the
value of the CST mission because CST will not be
included for that team's missions again. So like you better
seize that opportunity and you better try really hard and
do really well to make sure you basically don't like
solely the name, but also so that you were actually
value added and you're doing what American taxpayers are paying
for you to go do on their behalf.
Speaker 1: What was it like going out on missions with the
Ranger Regiment?
Speaker 2: Most of mine were with the ODAS.
Speaker 3: Thankfully h Ranger Regiment was like fast and furious, crazy. Yeah,
the ODA stuff though, Uh those were that was super fun.
I'm very partial to Odias. I just think I got
along with them a little bit better. I'm sorry, I know, hope,
I'm not hurting any feelings, but you know, I just
loved like the energy of like a bunch of these
guys that you're like not.
Speaker 2: Sure if in shape or what.
Speaker 3: And then they'd be like running up of down mountains
like billy goats and stuff. But it was really fun.
I really liked the multi day ones. I liked the
complexity of it. I liked watching how those plans came together.
I liked watching how the odias like tag team problems,
you know, contributing into that decision cycle where I could
working with the eighteen Foxes to have a good understanding
of what we were going into and likely where I
was going to be most useful and preparing myself to
be able to pivot, you know, kind of getting like
swapped out between oda's depending on who was in like
what hot zone kind of thing. Especially for those multi day,
multi odier missions, that was a lot of fun because
you got to like kind of see how different teams
run and like what the book is, so you had
like your surfer bro teams, and then like your edgy teams,
which are always really funny to me, and then like
you're like jock dude bro teams. And so it was
a lot of fun, and I got to work with
a lot of like absolute legends in the community and
see how they do what they do. It felt like
it felt like almost reading like a war hero book,
like like reading like Loan Survivors. Sometimes you're like, there's
no ways, I mean some of that stuff not true, right,
we know that now, but like you're like in the
presence of these guys that like, this is what they do,
this is what they have done for the last twenty years,
and this is what they will do until they are
forced to stop doing it. And I found that the
older ones. That was the other reason why I really
matched with the ODEA as well, is like it was
just an older group of people, so the maturity was
there to understand how to use us effectively, and there
was less of the ego involved in like, oh man,
there's a girl in our treehouse, right, Like it was
kind of just like they'd seen it before. They didn't care,
they knew the utility. They looked at us as a resource,
and so they were going to use this as an
essentially like a weapon system for them, right in, essentially
an intel platform that they could weaponize. And so I
really very much so appreciated working with the odas and
particularly like the Foxes and then the Zoo's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what a good ODA does, is
they see what assets they have available and bring them
in and make them part of the team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were great about that.
Speaker 1: Any particularly dicey operations that stand out in your mind.
Speaker 3: There was one really horrible one where we kind of
got stuck in a compound and we were folks were
on their way to come help us out, and we
did lose service members that day. That's a tough one.
And it's like very weird because I still like I
was there, but I have this weird like and nothing
bad happened to me, Like I didn't get blown up
or anything, but I have these like ins and outs
of trying to piece together what's going on. That one
was really terrible, but I can't really like speak to
exactly the flow of that and what happened. Besides, it
was terrible and we were outside of the Golden Hour
ring and so it was just a lot of conflating
factors that just culminated in something very tragic. I think.
I can tell you like one of my favorite ones.
Speaker 2: We were cruising alongside this like little like ridge over.
Speaker 3: This valley, and I mean we are like we've been
out for like a couple of days at this point,
I think, and we started like taking pop shots and
from the other side of the river. And then somebody
noticed that there was like one of those tunnels like
coming out of the river, and so these guys were
just like popping out taking pop shots, and so we
ended up just setting up on the valley basically like
on the edge of the ridge, and like they would
pop out like whack a mole and like shoot it us,
and like everybody would just shoot back and one would drop,
and then another one would come out and it would
be like and then they would drop, and it was
like very like what are we doing here?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 3: So finally they were just like calling out like these
people are just gonna keep jumping out of here, like
let's just push down. Clearly they have some kind of
like nest set up there. Let's just push down and
just drop firepower because this like Heidi hole like nonsense.
But it just struck me as like just so cavalier
like like because that was like the first the first
like no shit, I'm within like what I believe to
be like viable shooting distance right of like I could
feasibly shoot this weapon and hit somebody. And so it
was like, oh shit, this is like this is like real,
this is.
Speaker 2: Not a range.
Speaker 3: There's actually people shooting at us, Like this is this
is serious. But it was a very good opportunity to
see that ODA, like how they operate, how they communicate.
I mean it was like watching like a conductor of
an orchestra, right like just all the hand signals and
everything they were doing. I mean it was really it
was cool and it made me. It made me more scared,
but it made me more committed to like making sure
I actually integrated with the teams and I understood the
tactics that were expected of me so I did not
become a liability.
Speaker 1: And what were the differences when you supported jaysock operations
between between the and the j sock side.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't really like know half the time
who we're with.
Speaker 3: I think that's the big difference is like when you
would go with the it would be like, oh, this
is Chit and Brad and blah blah, and you'd be like, oh,
great to see you again, you know. And but then
when there was like other guys, like they would just
kind of show up and you never really knew who
they were or what they were notturally doing there, but
they would be part of like all the briefs and
the walkthroughs, and then you'd like march out and get
on the birds, and like they'd be there and they'd
just be like super chill hanging out. I kept calling
this one guy Dan because the guys in one of
the odas kept calling him Delta Dan, and so like
I just thought that was his name because you never
introduced himself. And then so like we get done with
this like nighttime mission thing we're doing, and it's like
snowy as hell. I'm like up to my like hips
and snow and you know, hauling all my shit back,
and we're like getting ready to get on the birds,
and I'm like, like, I hope you had a good mission, Dan,
and he's like, my name's not Dan. I was like, Oh,
how the fuck would I know? Because you never introduced
yourself he's.
Speaker 2: Like they just keep calling me Delta Dan, and.
Speaker 3: So it was a lot like that was like they
were just kind of like these like ghosts that would
just like show up to things, do their thing in
some part of the compound, and then like disappear into
the night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like very very funny.
Speaker 3: I never really knew what they were doing there outside
of what I heard like in the briefing, but I
just didn't know who they were or they would show
up like right before we would go somewhere, right, So
there wasn't like a whole lot of time to and
realistically no need for me to be like briefing them
on anything. As long as I was doing my job
what I was supposed to be doing. With the intelligence
that I was supposed to be focused on, I would
be feeding into that cycle anyways, So there's no reason
for us to be like buddy buddy. But I do
wish I had been like a bit like just like
more confident in order to be.
Speaker 2: Like no, seriously, what's your name and where like where
are you coming from?
Speaker 3: But I was just like it's just really starstruck almost
and also just like really intimidated, like you know, it
was a twenty five year old woman dropped into this
this thing that I like really wanted to do and
have been thinking about for years, and then went through
the selection and you're like, yeah, I did it, but
the selection is just like get into the super Bowl,
like you still have to perform, and the super Bowl
guess what is month long? So I was just very like,
I think a little starstruck now. I you know, I
certainly would go up and be like, no, like, if
your name's not Dan.
Speaker 2: Then what is your name, dude?
Speaker 3: Because at no point did you introduce yourself, nor do
I know where you're coming from.
Speaker 2: But you know, twenty five, you don't really have the
confidence for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh I know those guys they like look
over both shoulders, then whisper.
Speaker 3: Up with the or you'd be like on the birds
with them and they'd be like wearing some like with
gray Man outfit and you're like, do you realize you're
a gray Man outfit? Like draws even more attention because
you look like such a nondescript weirdo. It was. It
was like one of those things where you'd see them
all over, you'd be traveling with them, like because because
I was in couple, and I had to support you know,
Odier's wherever, you know, other units everywhere, Like Green Air
would come out and kind of just pick me up
from my compound and then we'd kind of do like
the rotation and whoever else was going wherever, and so
like guys would get on and off and again same thing.
It's like they're in the little gray Man outfits, just
like staring at the wall and you're like, you can
sit on this helicopter for like fifteen minutes and that's
say anything, that's fine, but it's a little awkward at
this point.
Speaker 1: I And then what was it like rotating home after couple.
Speaker 3: They come back to the States. Yeah, you know, this
is like one of the big things that I think
is underappreciated when you have units that are or programs
that are unique and different. There was no so okay,
so you come back with a regular unit, right, and
there's the reintegration and they do the little march out
in the field and see your families and then you
have to go clean weapons and you do the whole thing.
There was none of that. It was literally like.
Speaker 2: Get on the plane and go home.
Speaker 3: And so because all the all six of us had
come from every duty station imaginable. We were kind of
just kicked off to the four winds and it was
like okay, that like it's over now, and that was
really really hard. So thankfully some of the girls. The
program manager at the time was like, hey, if you
guys want to like take leave and be together, like
we will work something out and you guys can do
that because technically I still have like command authority over you.
And so she gave us the opportunity to take a
good chunk of leave and we all made a point.
Speaker 2: To be together.
Speaker 3: For those of us that could. I was living in
uh Savannah at the time, and so two of the
csts came out and stayed with me, and it was
just like, yeah, we just needed that like that wine
down time. It was very hard coming back to the
conventional army, especially to an MP unit. Again, love the MPs,
but there's a lot of like the machismo and like
the chest bumping, and I was like, I've just spent
so much time around this, but people that are like
entitled to bump their chest and like scream about how
they're big, strong men, So like I'm not going to
take it from these state side MPs right now.
Speaker 2: So that was a little bit hard.
Speaker 3: I like went kind of rogue and like, I'm like
a super rule follower in the Army, but I like
came home and like put these crazy red streaks in
my hair and I was like, I'm going to get
like another really.
Speaker 2: Big stupid tattoo.
Speaker 3: And like pierced my ear and so I just kind
of went like a little bit rogue. But yeah, I
would say it was it was hard because there wasn't
that structured integration program like back and then when you
go back to your unit, nobody knows where the hell
you've been for a year, right, So like everybody I
had known at that unit for the most part, had
PCSD or was about to PCs. So I came back
to like a unit that did not know who I was,
did not know where I just came from, and like
certainly didn't appreciate that like these things that I had
just done or these these emotions that I probably needed
to process on the back end. So that was tough,
but I was so I'm always I'm grateful to be
an American, every single day of my life, So grateful
to be an American. Getting off that plane and driving
from we landed in Baltimore, driving down to Georgia and
just that long stretch of highway just in my old
beat up truck that my dad, you know, brought to
the airport parking lot for me, and I got a
very serious speeding ticket, but I didn't care. Just to
drink like cold diet coke and speed on American highways.
I mean, what a lovely what a lovely.
Speaker 1: Feeling McDonald's and Starbucks as far as I can see.
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, I just loved it, and that it didn't
sound like trash all the time, and that I felt
I didn't have like the grit of stand in my teeth. Yeah,
it was. It was a little bit hard. And then
that's ultimately why I was like, I can't stay conventional Army.
I need to find a way to keep doing something.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to because you mentioned this this issue
that with a unit cohesion that the CSTS have. I mean,
was that the way it was designed to work, that
it's like a one year detail that you go and
do and then you're just back to your old job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I failed to mention.
Speaker 3: I did get to some of us to get to
like come back, slash, stay on and do like these
little like almost tidy things to help with future selections
for additional teams. So that was helpful, like because you
kind of all got to come back together and do
the CST thing again and then and then bring new
candidates in and teach them like the tips and tricks
that you had learned. But yeah, it was never It's
not designed to be like a standing unit. I mean,
this is a thing that you come in and you
do it, and you usually go home, especially when you
think about it, like from the officer side. I mean
I kept getting warned about what it would do to
my career progression that I was like going off of
the script, off the timeline script, and I don't really
like who I don't care about that, Like sure, I'm
never going to be like a four start John't who
gives a shit if I like did something cool one year.
But yes, it was never designed to be a standing unit.
Which is interesting though because now I hear these things
of like, well, we don't need CST because we have
women in SF and we have women rangers and I'm
like a female ODA engineer, medic whatever her job is
to be an engineer, medic whatever. Her job is not
to deal with women and children on the battlefield. It's
a totally different role. It's not simply the presence and
the ownership. Can I save vagina on this.
Speaker 1: Podcast vagina is cleared?
Speaker 3: Okay? It is not simply the owner being the owner
of a vagina that makes you just do that role.
There is, there's training, it's a specific role, it's a
specific techniques, tactics, things that you're doing. It's not simply
just being a woman in the room.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So, I think it's very unfortunate that it's not something
that's a standing program or that it can't readily be
pulled off the shelf and dusted off and be ready
to be operationalized again. I will say later teams like
we have like skill identifiers that indicate that we did it,
but the earlier teams.
Speaker 2: Don't have that benefit.
Speaker 3: Which is also why a lot of them are fighting,
you know, every single day to try and get their
VA benefits to be to help them with the medical
problems that they're they're facing as a result of their
of their service is because they didn't. They weren't given
that designated They were basically just told like go home.
So I'm thankful that some of us have that designator
at least because it gives us a little bit more
to push back on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, the last part of Afghanistan I got
to get out of you, of course, is your dog
smuggling ring.
Speaker 3: It was not a ring. First of all.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a conspiracy to me, if.
Speaker 2: My lawyer is listening.
Speaker 3: No. Yeah, met this puppy the mountain right there. Uh
you know how cute those dang mountain dogs are over there.
Speaker 1: I would not describe them as cute, they're cute. And
we had one kid get bit in the ass and
he had to get a series of rabies shots. Young
ranger getting bit out on the target.
Speaker 2: Well, that's unfortunate. I'm sorry that happened to him.
Speaker 3: But this was a very little puppy who is very
sweet and bold enough to hang out around us because
he had figured out that humans, especially Americans like dogs,
love his kind.
Speaker 2: So he was willing to hang out with us.
Speaker 3: So you know, brought him down, kept him near us
outside the compound, fed him, and he was really cute
because he uh, like he knew that I was like,
I would come and go, not an affectionate animal, like
this was purely a resource exchange to him, and he
would go and hang out on the flight line and
like when the helicopter would come in, he'd be like
hanging out, you know, like where's my turkey sausage? Like,
glad you're not dead, where's my turkey sausage? So he
really didn't give a shit about me. But I have
been a lifelong animal lover.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 3: Even you know, even with my CSC partner there, that
was a very isolating experience. I mean, only two women
basically on that Ranger compound and then that's me.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much it.
Speaker 3: So just like a bright sunny spot in like a dark,
dusty space and something hard to contend with when you're
like twenty five year brain still forming. So met this
dog took care of him. Finally, the rangers, similar to
the Raby story, started rounding up the dogs and shooting them.
And I had put a flea collar on this dog
because I was like I don't want to have fleas,
you know, And I got a very nasty message from
the Ranger company commander saying like, whoever's putting the flea
collar on the dog? He knew it was me, whoever's
putting the flea collar on the dog, like cease and
assist immediately. And I was like, okay, well I'm not.
So I called back and I'm like, well, technically like
this Jaysock Battalion commanders in charge of me.
Speaker 2: And he's like really cool, So I'm gonna call him
and I'm like, hey.
Speaker 1: Sir, I have mommy daddy games.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like, I don't work, You're not my real dad.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, hey, sir, it was me.
Speaker 3: I put the flea collar on the dog and I'm
not gonna stop putting the flea collar on the dog.
Speaker 2: And he's basically like I don't want to hear about it.
Speaker 3: Stephanie like live your life, but like, don't the rangers
like stop pissing them off. And so finally there was
like a series of incidents where dogs started getting shot.
Whether it was for good measure or not, I don't know,
but I was kind of like I'm gonna like snap,
like I'm gonna have a very hard time if somebody
kills this dog. And so I reached out to an
organization called Puppy Rescue Mission, and I was like, do
you guys know any Americans in the area, and they
were like, actually, we know this woman that's studying in Kabul,
So if you can get him out of the camp,
like we can start helping you. You just have to
send this money to this person and then keep us
posted basically, so I was able to get some of
his basic veterinary meds brought in and get him some
of that stuff. So he was at least like a
stronger start than he probably would have been at this point.
He was like outpacing his like half dead puppy brothers
and sisters. I couldn't save them all. Kills me. I
couldn't save them all. I had to pick one. And
you know, so he's ten times bigger than everybody. And
they keep telling me like, oh, at some point one
night she's gonna call, and I'm just like really hoping
it's not while I'm like out on mission or gone
or something. And finally, like, do you remember those like
shitty rochans Did you have to add minutes too? It
was like these like next Tell but these.
Speaker 1: Like really crap like phone cards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you had to like put them in these
like really crappy phones. And so one night I'm like
really low on minutes. But they start calling and she's like, hey,
I'm like on my way. So it's like she calls,
She's like how do I get on this space? And
I'm like, well, you don't, but like you can get
into like the outer perimeter and then I can meet
you probably, So she ends up calling.
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm outside the outer perimeter.
Speaker 3: So I geared up because I was gonna have to
leave the gate.
Speaker 2: And this was not.
Speaker 3: A good decision. I knew it was wrong, but I
was gonna do it. I don't think the Statute of
Limitations has passed.
Speaker 2: This is probably unwise.
Speaker 3: But yeah, basically me and my CST partner, who God
bless her, was like, you're not going alone. So she
suited up too, and so we put all of our
gear on and everything, grab our rifles and pistols and everything,
go out to the gate and we're like, hey, we're
gonna We're like gonna run the gate. We're gonna take
this dog and run the gate. And it's snowing like hell,
and they're like, all right, good luck, ladies. Like like
if something happens, like we're not responsible, like this is
you're not supposed to be doing this and I'm like, yep, okay,
but you know, and so we run him out. This
woman jumps out of the car, opens this car. There's
this Afghan man driving and there's a cat carrier, and
I like, shove this puppy in, kiss him on his
nasty face and tell him like, I love you so much,
I'll take you on the other side. And this dog
is just looking at me like I should have killed
you when I got the chance, and they just take off, and.
Speaker 2: Then I didn't hear anything for a while, and I
was like, damn.
Speaker 3: I think like they just like fleeced me for money, right,
And then finally I get this email that's like, hey,
Smokey is at this like safe house outside a couple.
We're gonna like try and get them on like a
cargo plane. We need this amount of money for whatever.
And I'm like, well, if they're still scamming me, they're
doing a great job, because I'm gonna send the money.
And one day I get a message it's like he's
making it onto the plane. Do you have somebody on
the other side they can get him? And I'm like,
I really didn't consider that we would get this far.
So like, no, I made no coordinations for this. So
I called my roommate at the time and I'm like, hey, dude,
if you take care of this feral animal that I'm
shipping to our house, you don't have to pay rent.
He's like what, So sure enough, good guy. He took
care of him. I got back like a month and
a half, maybe two months later, I don't remember, but
he was like ten times bigger than the last time
I saw him. He starts barking and like howling at me,
and then finally he like realized who it was. And man,
you talk about like homecoming.
Speaker 2: That was like.
Speaker 3: That like completed me just to see this, to go
from this little tiny puppy to that' like giant, nasty
mountain dog living in Georgia, and all his commands were
were in pasto, so like I had to work with
him on that too, because I couldn't go to like
a Georgia dog park and be like Bill Parasha like
this is like not a good look.
Speaker 1: He caught his freedom bird home, So is he there
with you? Now?
Speaker 3: He is? He's he's outside.
Speaker 1: With my my Okay. I was going to say, extra
points if we could get him on camera but.
Speaker 3: He's very he's very suspicious about cameras. He doesn't want
his likeness to be seen.
Speaker 1: So you get this talk back to the United States
and you're not so much enjoying your reunion with the
conventional military. So what did you Where did you go
from there?
Speaker 3: So I called c A called the CIA branch and
I'm like, hey, I want to know if this CIA
selection that I went to a very long time ago
is still good. And thankfully at that time they were like, yeah,
come on over. So even though I had done really
bad on my what was the D lab? Was it
the D lab the one.
Speaker 1: For language language? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I had taken that a week before I went.
Speaker 2: I went to selection, I want to.
Speaker 3: Say, yeah, it and basically the facility like lost power
in the middle of it. And so then they restarted
it and like it may as well have been like
sim language to me, Like it was so bad at
the D lab, I could have figured it out. So
they were like, yeah, I mean, you're like language based
scores like not very good, but do you promise us
that you'll like try and learn a language.
Speaker 2: And I was like sure thing, and they're like, all right,
come on over.
Speaker 3: So thankfully got to make the switch over to CA
went through soft Triple C. Had to pause the training
because I had to get my shoulder repaired.
Speaker 2: I had a series of.
Speaker 3: Like traumatic and to it, I was just trying to
like nug through it, tie in it to myself at night,
tying it to myself when I ran, you know, just
it was like basically useless, just like a wooden arm
that kept falling out. But that time that was really
helpful because they were looking for a captain to come
to the run the operations section at the Joint Special
Operations Medical Training Center. And that was right when COVID
was like really popping off. And I had been going
to grad school before I left for Afghanistan for emergency
and disaster management. So I was like, this is my
time to shine and so had a lot of fun
with that. That's just like such a cool professional organization.
I mean that schoolhouse, like all of my admiration goes
to the Special Operation medical community. I mean what they
do is truly incredible, just really really amazing people. So
to be able to be inside the Schoolhouse and like
keep them resourced, you know, make sure things were on track,
advocate for them, like that was a really good opportunity.
And then I resumed the pipeline, went through CAA and
was very blessed to be assigned to the ninety first.
So Africa, I'm aligned.
Speaker 1: And did you end up having to go to language school?
Speaker 3: Yes? I did French, not well, but enough to pass
the tests and honestly, at the end of the day,
that's all that matters. But yes, yeah, and we only
got four months of language, which is pretty tough. So
I felt really bad for the guys learning like Russian
and Arabic. But yeah, I just got French, which is
what I wanted because I really wanted Africa. Like I
was like, I will do everything that I have to
do to get Africa. I want to go to.
Speaker 1: Africa, And you did, right. They sent you to West
Africa a bunch of times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got to go to Senegal and then Benin
was the big one.
Speaker 2: Benin was probably the most impactful.
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with Senegal. Then what was that deployment?
Speaker 3: Like that was really fun. It was thirty people. It
was very much like a get immersed, figure out what's
going on out here, similar to what.
Speaker 2: You had talked about when we spoke before.
Speaker 3: It was there was a kind of an ocent thing
that they wanted us to test out and do stuff with.
So that was a great opportunity for us to go.
Kind of hard to keep a low profile with thirty people,
but that was super cool.
Speaker 2: I mean we went, we went all over.
Speaker 3: We really like really went like very like local like
it was. It was really good. Yeah, just a good
time speaking as much French as humanly possible. That was
really the intent behind it was like get as many
people a bit of on continent experience as possible in
a low threat environment and like integrated with the embassy
because West Africa is going to become a thing, so
we need to start rolling people into here and you know,
getting some names to faces.
Speaker 1: And it was the intent also sort of like developing
the relationship with the Senegalie.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. We went and met with the War College
and then met with some of like the soldiers and
then there was like a like a fight house type
of thing that a lot of soldiers were in. So
a bunch of the guys went and did like combatives
like in the sand and just.
Speaker 1: Oh you're talking about that like that, uh, the native
wrestling that they do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was crazy. I didn't partner it again,
I have a fake shoulder, so like not good. I
will watch.
Speaker 1: But it's huge there, huge yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, super athletes. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: We joined like a gym in the community and it
was like such like a prison gym vibe, Like everything
was just like filthy.
Speaker 2: Invested, and it was like such a good workout. Every
time that they have.
Speaker 1: I've heard the kids state because it's a way. You know,
kids do that because they make a lot of money
if they become good at it. And I've heard them
like lifting weights in Cadence. The guys I call in
like one, two, three and you can hear the weights clacking.
Speaker 3: It was incredible, Like those gyms were incredible. I mean
these guys were I don't know if they were using substances.
I never asked, it was none of my business, but
I mean some of the largest men I'd ever seen.
Speaker 2: It's so encouraging.
Speaker 3: Like I usually get irritated at the gym when somebody's like, ooh,
check your form on that, But like when these guys
gave me guidance, I'd be like, just sir, we'll implement
that immediately. Just a good time it was. It was
really just make some friends, understand the area, get some
faces to names, and ingratiate ourselves at that phase.
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk at all about like the
leadership challenge that you faced out there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, without like sharing anybody's like private information. We
had a pretty severe mental health crisis that happened, and
this was like a pretty formative like leadership lesson for me.
The company commander stayed back, so I was like the
ground force commander out there, and I was which meant
my peers, like I was responsible for reporting back on
behalf of me and my peers as well, so other
captains and one of the one of the soldiers we
took with us, had a very serious mental health episode
that we probably should have seen coming, like Echelon's above,
us probably should have seen coming. So I was very
frustrated by that, but it didn't matter. Like at that point,
it was like deal with it and do what we
have to do. And so again thankful to the Special
Operations medical community. The medics across the teams in that
unit were just absolutely fabulous, did what they needed to do,
got very creative, tapped in some embassy resources to help
us out and hold us over to make sure nobody
was in like an immediately life threatening situation, and then
we were able to coordinate a very interesting evacuation to
get that soldier out and get him the help that
he needed, which I mean, you've you've been over there,
that's like not a place where you go to like
local clinics or you right, yeah, like mental health is
not a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's not. I remember I had a local
woman in Senegal tell me, she said, uh, what was
it that that like anxiety is a Western thing? Like
we don't have that here?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And also I mean let's also think like
I don't I don't want to speculate, but like let's
also think about like the the substances that are available
in those markets that you might not even know if
you're like out on the town, you might not even
realize that you're you've engaged with.
Speaker 2: You know, probably not even on purpose, hopefully not on purpose.
Speaker 3: So I don't really know precisely what ha and I
just knew that we had to we had to handle it.
And again the team like really rallied to to respond
to that and get that soldier out, and then you know,
we came back and there was a big discussion on
like what are civil affairs medics carrying when they are
overseas because if the ideas that were small autonomous teams,
we are not always gonna be in a situation where
you can call the embassy and say hey, come help.
And that's exactly what we had to do. So that
was that was an interesting learning lesson I think for everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, and then you said Benin was kind of
a big one for you.
Speaker 3: Benin was like my caa super Bowl. So we were
the soft civil affairs country opener for Benin. My team
had the best team, very lucky, so we did Adja
set with them. That was awesome. It was, like I said,
the first civil fairs ones. So the semic focus. Benin
was having a really hard time. The forces, uh Ben
and wah. So if we call them the fab but
they were having a really hard time because they're being
a bit heavy handed up on some of the border
regions and you know, rounding young men up, whether they
were actually affiliated with terrorists or not. You know, they
were still participating in general banditry to probably survive for
whatever reason, you know, but they were being pretty heavy
handed and so it's creating a really big rift with
the community.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 3: Uh, soccaf and African were like, hey, this is a
good place to target a civil affairs j set.
Speaker 2: Let's work through some of these sib MIL dynamics.
Speaker 3: So we had a great time, went out there, worked
with them thirty days.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: We maximized it. We made the most of it. We
did everything with them, you name it, we did it.
And it was good because it was a totally different
group that had not benefited from the odas because they
had like their there are like more tactical units that
of course, you go to any country and you're like,
we want to do a j set and they're going
to give you their like their arranger regiment, right because
they're like, that's who we want to give all this to.
This was great because they were like they genuinely understood
that this does not necessarily need to be like their
their frontline guys that are like door kicking.
Speaker 2: It probably needs to be dispersed throughout the force.
Speaker 3: So they had like medics, vets, everybody in there, like lawyers,
and then some like some of the ground troop guys,
so that it could really disperse through the through the
formations and then we closed that out and thankful to
the gracious support of Spirit of America, we were able
to secure a lot more money than I expected, and
we were able to do a medical Civic Action program
UH in a rural community. We also brought in an
Odia to help trade in the fab that had done
the j set with us, and then we're going to
do this capstone event was going to be the medcap
for a couple of days, they came in and talked
to them about like setting up security for these types
of events. So it was like a lot of layering
effects and wouldn't have been possible without Spirit of America.
But that was really really eye opening. It was like
I felt like I was watching the baby birds fly,
almost as like I had just spent thirty plus days
with these guys, like teaching them everything I could possibly
know about what they needed to know, or at least
what I thought they needed to know, and doing it
in French right, and like we had so much fun.
And then that first day of the MEDCAP, I was
like being very micromanagy and just because I was like
you cited and jazzed up and I wanted it to
go really well, and it was like so great because
at one point one of the guys, like one of
like the junior officers, came over and he was like,
we'd got it, like we were doing this, We're okay,
Like it's okay, like you can go hands off, and
I was like cool. And then like for the rest
of that medcap over a couple of days, it was
like so much fun just observing helping, like using certain
things as training opportunities, but at that like micro level,
with the intent that would spread throughout the formation. And
then the Embassy did a really good job of amplifying
that story. And so it's great now because I see
the one of the kernels that was in that j set,
I see him like on the news now all the
time talking about Benin and like the work that the FAB.
Speaker 2: Is doing in the local communities.
Speaker 3: And how they're repairing relationships and they're hosting events to
get them a little bit closer to the population. So
it just I'm super proud of that one because I
think there was there was ripples from that, and I
don't think that you always get to say that, like
I didn't necessarily feel like there was ripples from my
time in Afghanistan, right, I feel like there was genuinely
ripples from the time and Benine and that to me
is like civil Affairs isn't always seen as like the
sexiest soft tribe, you know, but to me, that's like.
Speaker 2: Why it matters.
Speaker 3: That's that's really like the impact is that that human
terrain aspect of it. And so I was very very proud,
very thankful to be part of that that mission.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm really glad that you could explain to
people what civil affairs does because there's a lot of
misunderstanding or so it's more of a harder cell, I
think than like a Special Forces guy or a Navy cel.
People kind of understand.
Speaker 3: That, yeah, we do that to ourselves.
Speaker 1: I set my novel in Beneen.
Speaker 3: Oh really yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Had I known you were there, I would have
called you up for some research.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that.
Speaker 3: I was busy. And also I got like heat stroke
like four times. So again, thank got for my medics.
Like I remember teaching teaching one of the classes with
like an ivy like running through my arm as I'm
like trying to like fight through my French translation of
how to speak to people.
Speaker 1: And so as you start like winding down your active
duty time, I remember you had told me you spent
some time in Italy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So my final assignment on active duty, I was
the Aide de camp to the Navy four stars. So
that was super eye opening to work for the Navy,
really great experience. He was the commander Naval Forces Africa,
Naval Forces Europe and ally Jointed Force Command Naples, so
the NATO Command in Naples, Italy. And so that's what
I did for the last two years of my active
duty time.
Speaker 1: Now, how do you like that? That sounds on paper
it sounds like a pretty cush assignment.
Speaker 3: It was so not cush, like you know, my husband
came over there for a little bit and then he
was like, now I'm going to go back, because like
you're never here, and when you are here, you're just
like so stressful to be around.
Speaker 2: It was an incredible experience. The exposure.
Speaker 3: I mean I went to like over like think I
did account It was like over like twenty five countries
or something crazy some of those multiple times. The peak
behind the curtain. You know, if you're the person that's
attached the hip of a four star, especially in those commands,
like to see historical events playing out in real time
that nobody in the world but you and those people
in that room or know that are happening right then,
and then knowing you can't tell anybody about it, and
then you see it on the news a couple days
later and you're like, Okay, cool, now I can like
kind of talk about it. Just a really good learning
opportunity to the I would say to like anybody that's
still in the military and deciding like broadening assignments like that.
So I had to choose between that or an assignment
at first Group, and I really wanted the first Group one,
and that would have been an amazing opportunity as well.
But there was like something niggling in the back of
my brain that like a NATO assignment is like crazy,
and a NATO assignment in a four stars like personal
staff is like nuts. So I'm glad that I did
that because the NATO exposure fabulous, Like just to be
in an environment where you're not immediately like the big
dog when you walk in, like you know, you go overseas,
you go to all these places and you're like, I'm
an American but then you walk into a NATO command
and it's not always like the Americans in.
Speaker 2: Charge of the thing.
Speaker 3: So that was very humbling and very helpful. And then
again to go to some of those countries that like
in what world would I be going to like Serbia, right,
you know, or like watching like crises in Kosovo like
unfold from you know, the back of a plane and
trying to figure out what we're gonna do when we
hit the ground, like we had like an emergency landing
in Poland that was nuts, and like I was in
the cockpit with like the little GPS tracker, like trying
to figure.
Speaker 2: Out where we were going and what needed to happen.
Speaker 3: Like just crazy like that, because like you're responsible for
getting the four star where he needs to be because
he's a four star, he's.
Speaker 2: Got a lot going on. He's the only guy that
can do the thing.
Speaker 3: So very high pressure, but a lot of fun. Very
thankful to have worked for that commander because he was
very patient, very kind, very cerebral, and so my exposure
to the Navy in that regard was I think that
was good, good Navy exposure.
Speaker 2: And then just such a professional staff around him.
Speaker 1: But you didn't care for Naples so much.
Speaker 3: No, And you know, I'm ethnically Italian, like Theresa is
my maiden name, Rittola is my married name. You know,
I'm wearing a Cornicello necklace, like I'm Italian. But Naples,
man Naples was the food ten out of ten, the
wine ten out of ten when you went down to
the Amafi coast beautiful. But living in Naples like felt
like Syria. It's just the governance is very poor. They've
been gutted in terms of the resources. In southern Italy,
it was just chaotic. It kind of felt like a
war zone. So I also, you know, I took the
assignment and thinking, ooh, my European vacation, and it was
very much so not a European vacation one because of
the nature of the assignment and too just the location
wasn't necessarily what I think one thinks of when they
think about going to Naples, Italy. But nice to be
able to just jump in the car on the weekend
and like go to Sirecto or go like you know,
rent a boat for like barely anything and just go
cruise around. Even though I'm like, in no way qualify
to drive a boat.
Speaker 1: And now you are in the civil Affairs Reserves and
also out on sippy street work in a real job.
How are you finding that? How's that treating you?
Speaker 3: It's good, you know. I got off activeduty with fourteen years.
Made that decision for my family because, as I think
a lot of people that are drawn to this community,
if we don't actively pull ourselves out of it, will
just continue to get on planes and go to other countries,
and we're gonna chase that feeling every time. So I
had to make a hard decision get out. My husband
had gotten out like four years before, so he was
he was pretty over the Army experience and went and
did good things from there. I was terrified because so
much of my personality is the Army. I mean, like
I said, I I genuinely believe the Army saved me
from a really bad future, like I was going down
a bad path, like I talked about.
Speaker 2: So I owe a lot of my.
Speaker 3: Like just my everything, my education, my confidence, my friendships,
everything I have to the Army. My dog, my husband,
I met him in the Army, right, like I owe
everything the Army. So very hard for me to make
that tradition transition, which is why I made the decision
to stick with reserve, So got off activity. The next
day I was assigned to reserve unit. That Reserve unit
is super cool. They're out in Virginia Beach. They're actually
getting after stuff, really good realistic training and super high
quality experienced people willing to learn but also teach. Just
a good time with with good access out there. Virginia
Beach is like incredible, So like sure, I'll go do
drill in Virginia Beach because it's just beautiful. And then yeah,
working on the civilian side, I work for an AI
enabled decision intelligence company. They're London based.
Speaker 2: And I have a lot of autonomy.
Speaker 3: Absolutely love what I do. It's a it's a platform
that I wish that I had had. Definitely would have
been helpful in Afghanistan, would have been very helpful in
West Africa, especially towards the soft and a regular warfare
mission set. So you know, if you you believe in
the in the platform that you're helping people get onto
and learn about, and the team culture is awesome, that
is really very much so making the transition easier. It's
it's a great team, really great company. Everybody's awesome. A
lot of former military soft from Allied nations as well,
so I still get that kind of like NATO feel
to it as well. And so it's been it's been
really great. But you know, I still keep tabs on everything.
I still get those those hunger payings for the Army sometimes.
But then I go on the Army subreddit and like
read all the crap that's going on, and.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it sounds like there might be
another adventure or two for you out there with the reserves,
if they some more time spent in Africa.
Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think that's the seriously
like undersung aspect of the reserves is like if you
what I'm coming to realize is like, if you want
to do something and you want to get after it,
those opportunities available, and you're so much less at the
whims of timing, Like I feel like it is on
active duty, where like you missed the deployment by a month, right,
or you know whatever, you recycled to school so then
it delayed something like that. It's it's it's not like
that in the reserves. Like if you want to do it.
You want to contribute, even if it's for shorter stints,
like you can go do that. So there's definitely opportunities
that could come down the pipeline if if it makes sense.
Speaker 1: So tell us about All True.
Speaker 3: So All True was formed by former csts Jessey. You
had her on one of your episodes earlier and she
is incredible. So nonprofit founded by former csts, like I said,
and it has grown to be an amalgamation of women
and men from the soft community that are all about
empowering future generations.
Speaker 2: So they're doing a lot of great work.
Speaker 3: They've done some incredible stuff in Ukraine and then Kenya
was a recent one and they've got a lot of
great stuff coming up. But that has been so critical
to such a that that tiny community of women that
were csts of like just being like I see you,
I know what you did, I know what you're about,
and just the rallying around each other, advocating for each other,
and then all of the men that are part of that,
that worked with us or worked around us, that also
believe in that that operational imperative of of essentially like
I don't want to say weaponizing gender, but knowing there's
value in UH using that gendered aspect in for for operational.
Speaker 1: Success and and also you want to talk about Guerrera.
Speaker 3: Guerrera. Yes, did you watch Gera? No?
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: So. Guerrera is a three part series produced by All
True and Dulcinea Productions.
Speaker 2: UH.
Speaker 3: It tells the UH story of Jenny and Captain Jenny Morino,
she was killed in action when she was a CST,
but it also tells the story of the broader CST
story and also the Afghan Female Tactical Platoon story from
csts that were there, ftps that were there, and then
the men that we or at least those teams. I
was not on those teams that was early in the
in the CST program that were there and worked with
those women and saw their value and still beat the
drum for it. Like I said, three part series Apple,
Apple TV, YouTube Premium and then Amazon. It's really incredible,
if not just for like the footage alone, I still
don't understand how they got some of the footage that
they did, like archived footage, just really incredible. If you've
been to Afghanistan, like you will, you will be like
transported back. You can like you can smell it almost
like that that distinct Afghanistans. Then while you're watching this
but very moving, very important story captures a part of
uh our history that I think a lot of people
don't know about and probably would would never know about
unless they went looking for it, just because the CST
story has not been captured in that way necessarily before.
So I think if anybody is interested in that, they
want to learn more about the Odas and range A
regiment and all of that and how we worked with them.
That's a that's a really good primer. And then the
context of like everything that was going on for the
CST program to be stood up. I think that's an
important part to understanding the the the policy and the
strategic failures of the global we're on terror as well.
Speaker 2: So just a just a different, different approach to capturing
that history.
Speaker 1: Definitely, I'm looking forward to it off to check it out.
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about? Anything
I've failed to ask during this interview that you'd like
to get into.
Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like we've been like talking for hours.
I've just been talking so much.
Speaker 3: No, I really appreciate it I think what you're doing
spreading the word, capturing people's stories is really important, you know,
it's it's we were talking about before, Like this just
makes it's a small world, but the military makes it
even smaller. So I think it's really important to know
what our our our brothers and sisters are doing out
there or have done, because it informs what you could
possibly do or what you might be interested in. Right Like,
if people hadn't talked about the CST program, I wouldn't
have known about it. I wouldn't have known to keep
you know, I wouldn't have known to like key in
on that when it came out on the in the mill.
Speaker 2: Per message because I would have had no context.
Speaker 3: So I think it's very important to talk about these
these programs, even if they're sunseted they don't exist. I
personally believe there will be a need for a CST
or a CST like program again, and so I think
it it would benefit us all to learn about it
now and take some of the lessons from it, so
we're we're a little bit more prepared next time.
Speaker 1: Definitely, where can people find you? Are you on social
media or LinkedIn or anything?
Speaker 3: Yeah? The only social media I have is linkedin' I'm
a LinkedIn girl these days. You know, you make the
pivot to corporate, you got to be on the LinkedIn game.
So yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. It's Stephanie R.
D Rotolo. If you want to see my dog, I do.
I have to put pictures of him on there. He
has his like very own branded aspect.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's where you can find me. I'm on
there all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and yeah, we'll have a link down the
description of this podcast also for folks. Well, Stephanie, I mean,
thank you for doing this interview. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. It was super fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well stay in touch and everyone else. We'll
see you guys next week. Hey, guys, I want to
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